This might ruffle a few feathers, but.....

[Peripheral Prophet]

Ok, so in part because of this forum and all the eye candy, I found myself going through the routine of essentially trying all the hottest keyboards, switches, and everything money can buy.  Feel, look, typing speed, all were factors in my final decision and I keep going back to the same keyboard simply because I find it to be the most comfortable while offering the fastest wpm (I write alot and this is actually a huge selling point on a keyboard).  Id probably rate the HHKB as my second choice, but you wanna know what?  After thousands of dollars, hundreds of keycaps, quite a few keyboards and manufactures this is what I would say are, at least for me, the best keyboards ive been able to find, and price is not a factor in any of these choices, just the typing experience.

1. Apple wireless magic keyboard (rev b) *takes two double a batteries*
2. HHKB type S
3. BTC 5100c (the sound is similar to the hhkb, and while it takes a bit more pressure to actuate, the feel of the keys is only slightly cheaper than the HHKB and the topre switches)

Now remember, this is a personal experience, so I cant promise you will have the same experience, but after a long time with many keyboards, this is where I have landed.

[hoggy]

It's okay.  It's your personal experience, we can't and shouldn't all be the same.  A good number of us would disagree with you about the 'best' keyboard, but your choice is your choice.

[hoggy]

...keep searching though.  After seven/eight years, I'm still at it.

[chyros]

What mechanical switches did you try out?

[klennkellon]

BTC domes are really nice. I can actually see someone preferring them to Topre as they're more tactile.

[Peripheral Prophet]

What mechanical switches did you try out?

I started with mx blues, but they were just not for me, too loud and clicky..  Of the cherry mx switches, the browns were hands down my personal fav..

Then I tried the topre switches on the HHKB and I was totally hooked, the tactility, the sound, the feel, it just felt really nice, even for long hours of typing..

Still though, the apple magic keyboard is my consistent go to keyboard, the snappy tactility, the low profile of the keys, and the visual appeal of the keyboard itself is not bad at all, but the experience of typing for me has always been the best on the apple magic keyboard, not the new one though, they reduced the key travel and the angle of the keyboard as it sits on my desk.

[Peripheral Prophet]

BTC domes are really nice. I can actually see someone preferring them to Topre as they're more tactile.

Yeah, I bought one for about 20 bucks new on ebay, and I have to say, the keys are more snappy than the hhkb, but the experience is just a bit cheap feeling compared to the hhkb, still, I find myself using the btc occasionally because I absolutely love the sound, and the increased resistance is a nice change up.

[Findecanor]

1. Apple wireless magic keyboard (rev b) *takes two double a batteries*

The aluminium keyboard that has replaceable batteries is not a "Magic" keyboard.

That is a common misconception. You can see that keyboard advertised as "Apple Magic Keyboard" all the time on auction sites. Why do so many people get this wrong? Can't people tell them apart?
Is it because it is often paired with the "Magic Trackpad"?

[chyros]

If all you've tried are Apple chiclets, Topre, BTC dome with slider and Cherry MX, there's a LOT left to explore, my good man .

[zslane]

I'm sure that keyboards like Apple's feel very comfortable to folks who have come to regard laptops as the normative computing experience. You can see low-profile chiclet style desktop keyboards dominating big box store shelves these days. But the slow march to extinction for mechanicals doesn't stop there. The next generation of kids will know nothing of physical keycaps and switches in any form; they will all think typing on glass is the norm.

[Peripheral Prophet]

1. Apple wireless magic keyboard (rev b) *takes two double a batteries*

The aluminium keyboard that has replaceable batteries is not a "Magic" keyboard.

That is a common misconception. You can see that keyboard advertised as "Apple Magic Keyboard" all the time on auction sites. Why do so many people get this wrong? Can't people tell them apart?
Is it because it is often paired with the "Magic Trackpad"?

Honestly, Ive only ever bought them on ebay, Apple isnt selling them anymore so I was going off of what the listings say, I really had no other frame of reference apart from what the listing says.

Obviously it is a battery powered bluetooth keyboard, I dont think there are magic fairies inside the keyboard itself or anything..

[Peripheral Prophet]

If all you've tried are Apple chiclets, Topre, BTC dome with slider and Cherry MX, there's a LOT left to explore, my good man .

yeah I have played with some of the old keyboards and some of the switches I havent mentioned, and I have a friend who has some of the other types as well.

I dont know why, but I find myself typing much faster on my apple keyboard, could be in part because Ive used it for so long, but I think it has to do with the profile of the keys, the travel distance and I have yet to find a keyboard that has that 'snap' that the apple keyboard has, perhaps its all in my head.. 

Cherry and other mechanical switches just dont do what the topre/apple/btc switches do in terms of tactility, Im not sure but it might have to do with the rubber domes, I just love the way they feel when typing, very comfortable, and the sound is more pleasant. 

I really did like my ducky one with browns, but even with pbt caps felt kinda cheap, which is probably my biggest gripe with cherry switches, they just dont feel 'tight' if that makes any sense.  Browns with bands was much nicer but the reduced travel was a bit more noticeable than I would have liked.

[Peripheral Prophet]

I'm sure that keyboards like Apple's feel very comfortable to folks who have come to regard laptops as the normative computing experience. You can see low-profile chiclet style desktop keyboards dominating big box store shelves these days. But the slow march to extinction for mechanicals doesn't stop there. The next generation of kids will know nothing of physical keycaps and switches in any form; they will all think typing on glass is the norm.

I think the first time I used any apple keyboard was the one that came with my Imac, which is where my love affair started with this particular keyboard. Since then there has been one revision, and then an entirely redesigned keyboard which I am not a fan off, I think the rev b of the first apple keyboard is hands down the best keyboard Ive ever typed on.

Im pretty sure some of the knockoff versions on amazon are similiar, but there are tons of backstock of the apples around so ive just purchased those, considering they are found for around 30 bucks or so.  I just picked up a new one last night for about 40 bucks still sealed nib, for me that is a huge score lol

[avid]

I used the apple wireless for many years. I got tired in my fingers so thats why i joined the mech community.
Neither a big fan of the hhkb, but id say realforce 87 is the best board you can get

[chyros]

If all you've tried are Apple chiclets, Topre, BTC dome with slider and Cherry MX, there's a LOT left to explore, my good man .

yeah I have played with some of the old keyboards and some of the switches I havent mentioned, and I have a friend who has some of the other types as well.

I dont know why, but I find myself typing much faster on my apple keyboard, could be in part because Ive used it for so long, but I think it has to do with the profile of the keys, the travel distance and I have yet to find a keyboard that has that 'snap' that the apple keyboard has, perhaps its all in my head.. 

Cherry and other mechanical switches just dont do what the topre/apple/btc switches do in terms of tactility, Im not sure but it might have to do with the rubber domes, I just love the way they feel when typing, very comfortable, and the sound is more pleasant. 

I really did like my ducky one with browns, but even with pbt caps felt kinda cheap, which is probably my biggest gripe with cherry switches, they just dont feel 'tight' if that makes any sense.  Browns with bands was much nicer but the reduced travel was a bit more noticeable than I would have liked.

Fair enough, but if your typing so far is based on BTC, Topre and cliclets, I dare say you haven't tried a great switch type yet .

I really like BTCs and even Topre myself, but they're pretty decent, not great. Great switches are honestly pretty much on a whole different level.

In my opinion.

[pixelpusher]

I have that apple keyboard and I really like it too.  I own more keyboards that I am willing to admit that (Some of them have $300-$500 invested in them) and I would rank my apple keyboard up there in the top five.  But it is what it is.  I can't swap out the caps.  I can't add fun novelties.  I can't lube anything.  Hell, I probably can't even repair it if I need to.  I think most keyboard enthusiasts enjoy the hunt for the best of the best just as much as they like having the actual product under their fingers.  For me, it's more about the journey, and not just the destination.

[davkol]

Fair enough, but if your typing so far is based on BTC, Topre and cliclets, I dare say you haven't tried a great switch type yet .

I really like BTCs and even Topre myself, but they're pretty decent, not great. Great switches are honestly pretty much on a whole different level.

Meh. I kinda get OP. Actually, I hate the Apple Aluminium keyboard with a passion (well, I did, back when I had to use one), but have a Logitech's counterpart (longer travel, spherical keycaps) and don't mind it at all; I use it only in the armchair, though, because I have other—custom—keyboards at my desk.

That's awesome, if some obscure ancient switch sounds and feels great, but the keyboard itself may not be practical at all. I mean, if I want something even remotely ergonomic, 99% of the market is out.

[merlin64]

Good for you for finding a cheap solution, one that works for you. I understand this hobby is quite a matter of personal opinion and if it works for you, I respect that. However I do have an issue with you saying you've tried many keyboards for a long period of time, and spent thousands of dollars when your GeekHack history only dates to the middle of 2016.

Would you mind listing out what exactly you have tried/owned and for how long. There is a difference between trying and owning by the way. Like I'd be interested if you've ever gone the custom route, or modified your own switches, or looked into MOD/Zealios, vintage switches(alps),  etc etc. If you like topre, have you tried BKE domes?

[Joey Quinn]

1. Apple wireless magic keyboard (rev b) *takes two double a batteries*

If you're talking about Apple's scissor switch before they moved to the butterfly "zero travel" bull**** then I agree, I love typing on my 2010 MBP and honestly prefer it to quite a few keyboards I've tried.

[Peripheral Prophet]

Good for you for finding a cheap solution, one that works for you. I understand this hobby is quite a matter of personal opinion and if it works for you, I respect that. However I do have an issue with you saying you've tried many keyboards for a long period of time, and spent thousands of dollars when your GeekHack history only dates to the middle of 2016.

Would you mind listing out what exactly you have tried/owned and for how long. There is a difference between trying and owning by the way. Like I'd be interested if you've ever gone the custom route, or modified your own switches, or looked into MOD/Zealios, vintage switches(alps),  etc etc. If you like topre, have you tried BKE domes?

Just the HHKB and Ducky keyboards alone Ive owned total over 2k. Ive owned a lot of keyboards over the years, but sure, I only really started getting crazy with buying them last year.  Ive sold so many keyboards on ebay that I feel like Ive not really lost much money and it was worth the experience and fun Ive had owning them.

If you dig into my post history, you will find that once I discovered the hhkb, I was in absolute keyboard heaven, but that honestly didnt last very long as i can type faster on my apple keyboard, as much as I want to find a new favorite, I just keep coming back to it.

I dont know much about alps, but a buddy of mind has what I guess would be a 'vintage' alps keyboard and if i recall they didnt have enough actuation pressure for my taste, I do recall them being the most pleasant of the clicky switches from a strictly 'sound' perspective.

The reason I like my apple keyboard is because I believe the lower profile keys give me an edge over other keyboards, comfort and speed are the most important, I could care less about decking out my boards with impossible to get keycaps, more of function over form mentality I suppose..

Please tell me more about BKE domes, Ive never heard of those..

[Peripheral Prophet]

If all you've tried are Apple chiclets, Topre, BTC dome with slider and Cherry MX, there's a LOT left to explore, my good man .

yeah I have played with some of the old keyboards and some of the switches I havent mentioned, and I have a friend who has some of the other types as well.

I dont know why, but I find myself typing much faster on my apple keyboard, could be in part because Ive used it for so long, but I think it has to do with the profile of the keys, the travel distance and I have yet to find a keyboard that has that 'snap' that the apple keyboard has, perhaps its all in my head.. 

Cherry and other mechanical switches just dont do what the topre/apple/btc switches do in terms of tactility, Im not sure but it might have to do with the rubber domes, I just love the way they feel when typing, very comfortable, and the sound is more pleasant. 

I really did like my ducky one with browns, but even with pbt caps felt kinda cheap, which is probably my biggest gripe with cherry switches, they just dont feel 'tight' if that makes any sense.  Browns with bands was much nicer but the reduced travel was a bit more noticeable than I would have liked.

Fair enough, but if your typing so far is based on BTC, Topre and cliclets, I dare say you haven't tried a great switch type yet .

I really like BTCs and even Topre myself, but they're pretty decent, not great. Great switches are honestly pretty much on a whole different level.

In my opinion.

If I could find a topre keyboard (sound and sturdy wise) with slightly snappier switches and with a slightly lower profile, I feel like that would be my dream keyboard.  Cherry felt kinda cheap over all and I really wasnt as impressed as I otherwise thought I would be based on the popularity of them but If I had to own one and only one it would be browns all day..  My buddy has a vintage IBM keyboard and that was outright obnoxious..

For what its worth, the apple keyboard (im not even a mac user lol) is a no brainer for me, whereas other boards just dont quite do it for me.. The typeS hhkb isnt far behind and the snappy btc domes are really nice (and im convinced the keycaps are pbt, they obviously arent abs, they havent worn any and Ive been using it for a while) but there is a bit of fatigue as the actuation pressure is a bit stiffer compared to the HHKB..

[Peripheral Prophet]

1. Apple wireless magic keyboard (rev b) *takes two double a batteries*

If you're talking about Apple's scissor switch before they moved to the butterfly "zero travel" bull**** then I agree, I love typing on my 2010 MBP and honestly prefer it to quite a few keyboards I've tried.

Thats the one, the new version was completely redesigned and the relatively flat angle of it really hurts my wrists so thats a no go..  Luckily the older rev b models are readily available and I can find them pretty much whenever I want one (my son has literally destroyed 3 of them, I didnt realize how destructive kids were until my keyboards, tablet and some over valuable things were in a few pieces on the floor)

[Peripheral Prophet]

I have that apple keyboard and I really like it too.  I own more keyboards that I am willing to admit that (Some of them have $300-$500 invested in them) and I would rank my apple keyboard up there in the top five.  But it is what it is.  I can't swap out the caps.  I can't add fun novelties.  I can't lube anything.  Hell, I probably can't even repair it if I need to.  I think most keyboard enthusiasts enjoy the hunt for the best of the best just as much as they like having the actual product under their fingers.  For me, it's more about the journey, and not just the destination.

Yeah, the best Ive found are vinyl decals to give the apple keyboard a fresh look, but it doesnt look durable

[Joey Quinn]

I have that apple keyboard and I really like it too.  I own more keyboards that I am willing to admit that (Some of them have $300-$500 invested in them) and I would rank my apple keyboard up there in the top five.  But it is what it is.  I can't swap out the caps.  I can't add fun novelties.  I can't lube anything.  Hell, I probably can't even repair it if I need to.  I think most keyboard enthusiasts enjoy the hunt for the best of the best just as much as they like having the actual product under their fingers.  For me, it's more about the journey, and not just the destination.

You can kind of repair Apple scissor switches, replacement parts are fairly easy to buy online.

As far as customization goes I have one of my keycaps sanded down and colored with a sharpie.

[merlin64]

Good for you for finding a cheap solution, one that works for you. I understand this hobby is quite a matter of personal opinion and if it works for you, I respect that. However I do have an issue with you saying you've tried many keyboards for a long period of time, and spent thousands of dollars when your GeekHack history only dates to the middle of 2016.

Would you mind listing out what exactly you have tried/owned and for how long. There is a difference between trying and owning by the way. Like I'd be interested if you've ever gone the custom route, or modified your own switches, or looked into MOD/Zealios, vintage switches(alps),  etc etc. If you like topre, have you tried BKE domes?

Just the HHKB and Ducky keyboards alone Ive owned total over 2k. Ive owned a lot of keyboards over the years, but sure, I only really started getting crazy with buying them last year.  Ive sold so many keyboards on ebay that I feel like Ive not really lost much money and it was worth the experience and fun Ive had owning them.

If you dig into my post history, you will find that once I discovered the hhkb, I was in absolute keyboard heaven, but that honestly didnt last very long as i can type faster on my apple keyboard, as much as I want to find a new favorite, I just keep coming back to it.

I dont know much about alps, but a buddy of mind has what I guess would be a 'vintage' alps keyboard and if i recall they didnt have enough actuation pressure for my taste, I do recall them being the most pleasant of the clicky switches from a strictly 'sound' perspective.

The reason I like my apple keyboard is because I believe the lower profile keys give me an edge over other keyboards, comfort and speed are the most important, I could care less about decking out my boards with impossible to get keycaps, more of function over form mentality I suppose..

Please tell me more about BKE domes, Ive never heard of those..

I am unaware of any Ducky board that come with any custom switches or any of the enthusiast grade switches like MOD or Zealio or the upcoming halos. You might find something you like there. There are also many kinds of Alps switches in existence. I use orange and brown SKCM as I really like the tactility. BKE domes are domes on old Sony boards discovered by thedford in Bellingham WA. They are currently being re-created through a project by jchan and platabear. They are super tactile but have a very sharp bottom out. This can be rectified by silencers and lubing.

[Leslieann]

But the slow march to extinction for mechanicals doesn't stop there. The next generation of kids will know nothing of physical keycaps and switches in any form; they will all think typing on glass is the norm.

Uhhh...
There has never been more options for mechanical keyboards and switches, this is actually the golden age for mechanicals. We have probably had more new switches in the last 5 years than we have in the 20 years prior, or more.


Also, desktop sales are actually rising as laptop and cell phone sales flatlined and tablet sales have actually fallen according to the last reports I saw.
Even if cell phones destroy the desktop, which I believe they will, people will still want a keyboard/mouse/large screen simply because ergonomics. You can't do serious work or gaming without those items. Articles stating the end of the keyboard are simply clickbait or morons, we have yet to come close to finding a replacement.

[Peripheral Prophet]

But the slow march to extinction for mechanicals doesn't stop there. The next generation of kids will know nothing of physical keycaps and switches in any form; they will all think typing on glass is the norm.

Uhhh...
There has never been more options for mechanical keyboards and switches, this is actually the golden age for mechanicals. We have probably had more new switches in the last 5 years than we have in the 20 years prior, or more.


Also, desktop sales are actually rising as laptop and cell phone sales flatlined and tablet sales have actually fallen according to the last reports I saw.
Even if cell phones destroy the desktop, which I believe they will, people will still want a keyboard/mouse/large screen simply because ergonomics. You can't do serious work or gaming without those items. Articles stating the end of the keyboard are simply clickbait or morons, we have yet to come close to finding a replacement.

I was kinda thinking the same thing, if there was a better time for mechanical keyboards, I certainly was not aware of it..  I feel like now more than ever with the choices, the ability to customize and the sheer variety that this is best time to get into the mech keyboard market.. Or worst if too many options overwhelms some people lol

As for tablets, I dont know the stats, but I did pick up a new ipad pro 10.5 with the apple pencil, and Im playing around with the ios11 beta and I gotta say, the new ipad pro is a game changer..  Dont be surprised if the new ipad pro alone changes the figures in favor of tablets, its getting higher numbers than most of the macbooks and with the increase in functionality, the apps specifically designed to function on it, and the overwhelming software support, Im kinda shocked tablets arent making a bigger impact.

I even use my apple keyboard with it, and its shaping up to be a nice little laptop replacement, that obviously depends on what a person needs, so programmers and high end photo/video editing is probably out of the question, but I have yet to find a peripheral that I use that doesnt connect and work with the ipad pro, making it extremely versatile, and with the software support it has, and companies lining up to develop alternatives to popular apps like adobe, combined with the fact that phones are essentially just smaller tablets aiming at replacing all of our devices, I think the tablet market is going to get a nice bump, especially since the new ipad pro directly challenges and in many cases dominates even the best offerings from microsoft.

We are the ones who are going to benefit from a fight between them all lol

[Peripheral Prophet]

Good for you for finding a cheap solution, one that works for you. I understand this hobby is quite a matter of personal opinion and if it works for you, I respect that. However I do have an issue with you saying you've tried many keyboards for a long period of time, and spent thousands of dollars when your GeekHack history only dates to the middle of 2016.

Would you mind listing out what exactly you have tried/owned and for how long. There is a difference between trying and owning by the way. Like I'd be interested if you've ever gone the custom route, or modified your own switches, or looked into MOD/Zealios, vintage switches(alps),  etc etc. If you like topre, have you tried BKE domes?

Just the HHKB and Ducky keyboards alone Ive owned total over 2k. Ive owned a lot of keyboards over the years, but sure, I only really started getting crazy with buying them last year.  Ive sold so many keyboards on ebay that I feel like Ive not really lost much money and it was worth the experience and fun Ive had owning them.

If you dig into my post history, you will find that once I discovered the hhkb, I was in absolute keyboard heaven, but that honestly didnt last very long as i can type faster on my apple keyboard, as much as I want to find a new favorite, I just keep coming back to it.

I dont know much about alps, but a buddy of mind has what I guess would be a 'vintage' alps keyboard and if i recall they didnt have enough actuation pressure for my taste, I do recall them being the most pleasant of the clicky switches from a strictly 'sound' perspective.

The reason I like my apple keyboard is because I believe the lower profile keys give me an edge over other keyboards, comfort and speed are the most important, I could care less about decking out my boards with impossible to get keycaps, more of function over form mentality I suppose..

Please tell me more about BKE domes, Ive never heard of those..

I am unaware of any Ducky board that come with any custom switches or any of the enthusiast grade switches like MOD or Zealio or the upcoming halos. You might find something you like there. There are also many kinds of Alps switches in existence. I use orange and brown SKCM as I really like the tactility. BKE domes are domes on old Sony boards discovered by thedford in Bellingham WA. They are currently being re-created through a project by jchan and platabear. They are super tactile but have a very sharp bottom out. This can be rectified by silencers and lubing.

Ducky keyboards dont have custom switches, unless you want to do some soldering..  They either have cherrys or topres, with topres being the rarer of Duckys offerings.
 
Of the switches you mentioned, which seem like either cherry clones, or knockoffs, like the zealios, is there any real difference compared to buying a preassembled cherry board?  Are they mechanically different in some regard?  Or were you citing the ability to build your own custom board with these?

Ive never really entertained the idea of making a board from scratch, perhaps with a kit maybe, but Im not that hardcore when it comes to my keyboard hobby, I leave that stuff for you guys so I can admire your work, one of the reasons Im here on this forum is to drool over the dedication you guys put into your boards, but I freely admit, I just dont have an interest on that level, relegating me to the land of preassembled boards in configurations that may be hit or miss for me.

[merlin64]

Zealios and MODs are indeed "knock off" cherry switches but they are built by enthusiasts. I've found them to be far better than any mass produced Cherry or Gateron or equivalent MX clone. There's other new stuff on the horizon as well. Unfortunately you are right, these are switches that you can only get by themselves. Doesn't come on any pre-assembled factory board.

I think you should give one of the custom boards/switches or even vintage ones a try. If you've really spent as much as you say you have, I think you've really only touched about 10-20% of the hobby, but have spent as much as a few of us. I know you're saying this is your opinion, however what "ruffles my feathers" isn't the fact that you said what you said, but rather you said it without really diving in too much. Given that you've really only tried OEM factory boards, I'm not too surprised about your conclusions. It's pretty lackluster out there.

I give you the following as an analogy with prices fudged a bit.

Posting on a niche car enthusiast forum with "This might ruffle a few feathers"

I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars buying hondas, toyotas, fords, chevy etc. However I've narrowed it down to my top three choices being a Mitsubishi Mirage, a Volt, and a Camry.

and then some people are saying, or maybe just me.....I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars too, and maybe even more over several years. Have you tried a Tesla? Have you tried an Audi? BMW? Lexus? Have you tried to do any engine mods, suspension mods, on your car? Have you done any stereo upgrades? Might not be 100% the right metaphor but I hope it gets the point across.

I can understand if you don't want to go all custom, or not as hardcore as us. But if you're ok with spending that much money, did you know you can have someone assemble it for you too?

Anyway, please don't take this as an attack, but rather a "hey man, don't stop your search there, you still got a ways to go".

[Peripheral Prophet]

Zealios and MODs are indeed "knock off" cherry switches but they are built by enthusiasts. I've found them to be far better than any mass produced Cherry or Gateron or equivalent MX clone. There's other new stuff on the horizon as well. Unfortunately you are right, these are switches that you can only get by themselves. Doesn't come on any pre-assembled factory board.

I think you should give one of the custom boards/switches or even vintage ones a try. If you've really spent as much as you say you have, I think you've really only touched about 10-20% of the hobby, but have spent as much as a few of us. I know you're saying this is your opinion, however what "ruffles my feathers" isn't the fact that you said what you said, but rather you said it without really diving in too much. Given that you've really only tried OEM factory boards, I'm not too surprised about your conclusions. It's pretty lackluster out there.

I give you the following as an analogy with prices fudged a bit.

Posting on a niche car enthusiast forum with "This might ruffle a few feathers"

I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars buying hondas, toyotas, fords, chevy etc. However I've narrowed it down to my top three choices being a Mitsubishi Mirage, a Volt, and a Camry.

and then some people are saying, or maybe just me.....I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars too, and maybe even more over several years. Have you tried a Tesla? Have you tried an Audi? BMW? Lexus? Have you tried to do any engine mods, suspension mods, on your car? Have you done any stereo upgrades? Might not be 100% the right metaphor but I hope it gets the point across.

I can understand if you don't want to go all custom, or not as hardcore as us. But if you're ok with spending that much money, did you know you can have someone assemble it for you too?

Anyway, please don't take this as an attack, but rather a "hey man, don't stop your search there, you still got a ways to go".

Not at all, and thanks for drawing the parallels in context, I think at the end of the day what we like is relative and subjective at best.  For example, I might love my apple keyboard the best, but its not realistic to expect everyone or anyone else for that matter to feel the same way.  Too many factors to expect everyone to have the same standards.

Definitely wont stop searching though 

[davkol]

Zealios and MODs are indeed "knock off" cherry switches but they are built by enthusiasts. I've found them to be far better than any mass produced Cherry or Gateron or equivalent MX clone. There's other new stuff on the horizon as well.

You can achieve only so much with incremental changes of one mechanism.

Those Zealios and MODs are fundamentally the same thing, a bit closer to MX Brown, or MX Clear with springs of varying stiffness. That's it. A linear switch with an added bump on the stem.

Clicky Cherry MX or the new clicky Kailh switches have a somewhat different mechanism, and so do Alps SKCM, and obviously collapsing domes or [buckling] springs, but than you're approaching the end of the list, what's realistically available and usable.

If you want to go with the car analogy, there are only a few distinct engine types, that you can practically and legally use in a car. Every product in the market uses some variation on one of these.

[merlin64]

I agree with you totally? Though I'm a bit confused as to what exactly you're replying to lol!

[Aox]

I hear ya man.  I've tried tons of switches, and quite a few boards now.  I've bought a Novatouch as well to try on the topre-ness, and right now I'm typing on an LSv2 with zeal 65s, and to be honest, out of all my kbs, my favorite feeling board is my Anne Pro with unlubed gat browns.

[davkol]

Well, it's not like OP hasn't tried "enough", if they have what they have.

[antquinonez]

There's something totally humble about 2 AAs running a keyboard. I have the Apple Wireless Keyboard (A1314). Keys have a satisfying pop, good travel. In terms of chiclets, it's good. Bad chiclets are not well balanced and your fingers wobble. I tried a Dell e5470 laptop, yesterday -- horrible. I'll be honest, the A1314 is not a keyboard that I count among my keyboards  -- I only use it with my iOS devices, have used it for years; it's a special use keyboard. It's great for what it is though.

[Peripheral Prophet]

There's something totally humble about 2 AAs running a keyboard. I have the Apple Wireless Keyboard (A1314). Keys have a satisfying pop, good travel. In terms of chiclets, it's good. Bad chiclets are not well balanced and your fingers wobble. I tried a Dell e5470 laptop, yesterday -- horrible. I'll be honest, the A1314 is not a keyboard that I count among my keyboards  -- I only use it with my iOS devices, have used it for years; it's a special use keyboard. It's great for what it is though.

Yeah, i think the humility has more to do with the keyboard lol, because there is nothing 'humble' about the hhkb bt, at lease price-wise, and that takes AA's.. l get where you were going though, good stuff..

[typo]

See, this has to be understood as subjective. It is a very personal thing. Right up there with what Toothbrush you prefer IMO. I fall into this camp because I will take any Cherry MX on an otherwise quality board Over Topre switches All day long. The long and short is whatever you prefer. No right or wrong. I will add the Caveat, at a certain level. If anyone likes a $5 rubber dome good for them but I think they can do better and appreciate the quality. Even if it is a $40 rubber dome. Some things are universally junk but what we discuss here boils down to what you like best IMO. I personally do not know why everything is HHKB. I hate it. I do not feel that makes me "wrong" or that I have no clue. I just do not like it. I do vastly appreciate keyboards of the same or higher price but with Cherry MX. For the record I hate Alps as well. I do not think anyone can call me an idiot regarding this choice. I just think it is subjective. I will admit stores cannot keep the HHKB in stock. So, yes I am in a small camp but I do not feel it has a bearing on anything. Of course as I mentioned I do certainly prefer quality Cherry boards. It is not like I use Corsair/Razer Etc. For the record I will most gladly use a Model F as well but I really prefer a Windows layout. Still, I really like those too. I think Model F/M is what put Cherry in business but that is just a speculation. Plenty of people are using all of them.

[f32h80fsd08h34r5]

3. BTC 5100c (the sound is similar to the hhkb, and while it takes a bit more pressure to actuate, the feel of the keys is only slightly cheaper than the HHKB and the topre switches)

I've always found trouble describing the feeling of the BTC switches, but that's pretty accurate.

Cheaper, and even a little snappier, but in no way bad.

[jcoffin1981]

I can share a similar experience.  I've probably spent close to 2K on keyboards and caps and switches.  I have settled on Poker or Leopold mechanicals with Cherry switches as my daily drivers. 

I used a Logitech Illuminated keyboard for years and I type the fastest on this.  After using mechanicals I found this too stiff for me.  Also if a drop of moisture touched it it was ruined (I've bought 3 or 4).

About a week ago I took a dusty $10 rubber dome keyboard from the closet at work to use with a machine which only had a touchscreen to input data.  This stupid keyboard was probably the best typing experience I have had ever.  It was COMPLETELY silent and the caps had a pleasing sort of rubberized texture.  I have no idea what they are made of.  The key action was a little mushy, but at the same time it was very cushiony.  There is no jolt to the fingertips as you bottom out.  Keyboard noise drives me insane. This is a full size keyboard however and I will never own one of these again.

Because of this experience I am debating going getting a topre board, possibly a HHKB, which I said I'd never do because it's just an expensive membrane board.  If I decide on this and love it I will feel like an ass for buying 9 or 10 keyboards that will not get  used again.

[fohat.digs]

I started a new job a couple of months ago where the environment is not conducive to a "good" or expensive keyboard.

I dug out some of my IBM KB-8923s and swapped half a dozen pearl/pebble caps onto the most often-used locations on a black keyboard to give it a "special" appearance, and it has worked out well.

The quality and feel is good enough, and it is not worth so much that I will have to mourn if something happens to it.

[dubious]

I'm glad you found something you like! Even nickelback has a fan club   

[Darksair]

Have you tried the rubber domes from Razer?  It's the best switch I've tried.  It has better definition and depth than the Apple boards.

I just cannot stand the look…

[Giorgio]

Apple a1243 is so hard that I had to put some rubber under it! Not a good keyboard for me. I like very much my pok3r with reds: sounded nice when I replaced the aluminium case with a supercheap abs one.

[Peripheral Prophet]

Have you tried the rubber domes from Razer?  It's the best switch I've tried.  It has better definition and depth than the Apple boards.

I just cannot stand the look…

I actually wanna pick one of these up for my Ipad pro.. Might be one of the most minimal offerings from razer in terms of looks.

[Peripheral Prophet]

Apple a1243 is so hard that I had to put some rubber under it! Not a good keyboard for me. I like very much my pok3r with reds: sounded nice when I replaced the aluminium case with a supercheap abs one.

Totally agree, the apple keyboard sucks on a hard surface, but Ive got it on an extended mouse pad which seems to have fixed that one little gripe I had with it. Before that I felt like every time I hit a key the board was about to do a kickflip off my desk lol

[Data]

The jimmies.

They have been rustled.

[Peripheral Prophet]

The jimmies.

They have been rustled.

Oh I doubt that.. You arent far from me, would be nice to meet a jedi, my padawan game is way too strong.. 

[Zobeid Zuma]

I've got the Apple Wired Keyboard with the aluminum top that they made for over ten years -- it's the extended one with the full numeric keypad.  These keyboards do have a lot of fans.  OK, probably not so many here on geekhack. . .   but they are well-liked by a lot of "normal" people.

The biggest negative I keep hearing about them is not so much about the typing experience, but more that they're completely un-repairable and basically semi-disposable items.  You can't even open them without destroying them.  Spill your drink on one and it's dead -- time to toss it in the trash and pull another one out of storage.  The other side of that coin, I guess, is that you can get them cheap and keep a spare or two handy.  (I actually have three of them right now.)

I've had my Unicomp Spacesaver M for about five years.  In January the controller died, and I had to send it back to Unicomp.  For the standard service fee they repaired it, cleaned it, and it's like new.  However, what I've paid for the Unicomp plus one repair would have bought me four Apple keyboards.  So, as much as I emotionally prefer something that's durable and repairable, it's hard to say that there's any practical advantage over the semi-disposable keyboards.

[Leslieann]

Spill your drink on one and it's dead -- time to toss it in the trash and pull another one out of storage. 

Which is pretty par for the course for Apple products.

After watching Louis Rossman on Youtube I get nervous anytime fluids are near my Air, and it's actually more durable than most.

[Giorgio]

I've got the Apple Wired Keyboard with the aluminum top that they made for over ten years -- it's the extended one with the full numeric keypad.  These keyboards do have a lot of fans.  OK, probably not so many here on geekhack. . .   but they are well-liked by a lot of "normal" people.

The biggest negative I keep hearing about them is not so much about the typing experience, but more that they're completely un-repairable and basically semi-disposable items.  You can't even open them without destroying them.  Spill your drink on one and it's dead -- time to toss it in the trash and pull another one out of storage.  The other side of that coin, I guess, is that you can get them cheap and keep a spare or two handy.  (I actually have three of them right now.)

I've had my Unicomp Spacesaver M for about five years.  In January the controller died, and I had to send it back to Unicomp.  For the standard service fee they repaired it, cleaned it, and it's like new.  However, what I've paid for the Unicomp plus one repair would have bought me four Apple keyboards.  So, as much as I emotionally prefer something that's durable and repairable, it's hard to say that there's any practical advantage over the semi-disposable keyboards.

The Apple a1243 costs 60 USD. The unicomp costs 100 USD. How could you possbly spend 140 USD to repair a keyboard that costs less than that?

[Zobeid Zuma]

oops

I guess I was looking at the price of used Apple A1243 keyboards on eBay, which are plentiful at $30.  New ones are a different story.  (Keep in mind I've never bought one myself, I just have ones that arrived here with computers!)

New Unicomp Spacesaver M = $94.  One basic repair = $30.

New Apple A1243 = around $80 depending on the source.  No repair possible.

So, the Unicomp does actually look pretty good in that comparison.

[chyros]

oops

I guess I was looking at the price of used Apple A1243 keyboards on eBay, which are plentiful at $30.  New ones are a different story.  (Keep in mind I've never bought one myself, I just have ones that arrived here with computers!)

New Unicomp Spacesaver M = $94.  One basic repair = $30.

New Apple A1243 = around $80 depending on the source.  No repair possible.

So, the Unicomp does actually look pretty good in that comparison.

Apart from the fact the Unicomp is a much better keyboard in every way?

[Zobeid Zuma]

Apart from the fact the Unicomp is a much better keyboard in every way?

Well, this may ruffle a few feathers, but. . .

When I ordered my Unicomp, I had fond memories of the keyboards I'd used way back in school on their original IBM PCs -- the ones with the cast-metal case and the function keys on the left.  I thought the "legendary" Model M would take me back to that.  When I got it, I immediately noticed the rough fit-and-finish, creaky plastic case, and the sort of clunky-and-clacky key action.  Scratching my head, I wondered if I had somehow mis-remembered those old IBM keyboards so badly.

Of course, now I know those old keyboards were actually Model F.

Say what you will about the semi-disposable Apple chiclet keyboards, but they aren't rough, creaky or clunky.

[Leslieann]

Say what you will about the semi-disposable Apple chiclet keyboards, but they aren't rough, creaky or clunky.

That's because they are too thin and bendy to creak or feel clunky. )

[chyros]

Apart from the fact the Unicomp is a much better keyboard in every way?

Well, this may ruffle a few feathers, but. . .

When I ordered my Unicomp, I had fond memories of the keyboards I'd used way back in school on their original IBM PCs -- the ones with the cast-metal case and the function keys on the left.  I thought the "legendary" Model M would take me back to that.  When I got it, I immediately noticed the rough fit-and-finish, creaky plastic case, and the sort of clunky-and-clacky key action.  Scratching my head, I wondered if I had somehow mis-remembered those old IBM keyboards so badly.

Of course, now I know those old keyboards were actually Model F.

Say what you will about the semi-disposable Apple chiclet keyboards, but they aren't rough, creaky or clunky.

Comparing an A1243 to an M is already a tough sell, I don't think anyone would even consider comparing one to an F xD .

[davkol]

The Apple keyboard at least isn't obnoxiously loud.

[chyros]

The Apple keyboard at least isn't obnoxiously loud.

Exactly! It doesn't even have THAT going for it!