[IC] PuLSE SA Keyset (GET YOUR WALLET! - GB LIVE SEPT 8th 12:00 PST)

[LechnerDE]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

[Dragowing193]

I would go for DCS but not SA. That is way too expensive for me

[MiTo]

For Pulse, I think I'd be in for DSA or DCS. Will wait for the final decision.

Thank you for your support.

[MiTo]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

By following the Midnight and Toxic format, both keys are sold separately. This is done because extras in a Base Mod doesn't make sense, since the standard format is not symmetric. I'd call symmetry as an extra feature, in this case. I need more people supporting this idea in order to implement it. Would you guys buy the novelties, even with the mentioned keys on the Base Mods pack?

[MiTo]

Just saw your update.  I'd pay a little more for SA.  DCS doesn't interest me at the moment.

I'm glad you're in, a lot of people requested PuLSE in SA, recently.

[MiTo]

I would go for DCS but not SA. That is way too expensive for me

Let's wait for the votes!

[Dragowing193]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

By following the Midnight and Toxic format, both keys are sold separately. This is done because extras in a Base Mod doesn't make sense, since the standard format is not symmetric. I'd call symmetry as an extra feature, in this case. I need more people supporting this idea in order to implement it. Would you guys buy the novelties, even with the mentioned keys on the Base Mods pack?

I might buy the novelties, and if I do, it would be solely for symmetry. It would be nice to have those 2 extra keys in the Base Mod.

[MiTo]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

By following the Midnight and Toxic format, both keys are sold separately. This is done because extras in a Base Mod doesn't make sense, since the standard format is not symmetric. I'd call symmetry as an extra feature, in this case. I need more people supporting this idea in order to implement it. Would you guys buy the novelties, even with the mentioned keys on the Base Mods pack?

I'll check that with Melissa.

I might buy the novelties, and if I do, it would be solely for symmetry. It would be nice to have those 2 extra keys in the Base Mod.

Let's see what happens first.

[MiTo]

SA profile confirmed.
After you guys blow this vote button, SP will schedule our GB to start according to their production.

[justnits]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

By following the Midnight and Toxic format, both keys are sold separately. This is done because extras in a Base Mod doesn't make sense, since the standard format is not symmetric. I'd call symmetry as an extra feature, in this case. I need more people supporting this idea in order to implement it. Would you guys buy the novelties, even with the mentioned keys on the Base Mods pack?

urm, i think you are mistaken? 

this is midnight's base mod. whatever keys you see in the picture are sold in this base mod.


this is toxic's base mod.


this is raindrop's base mod.


this is granite's common kit, matt does differently by including those 2 keys in the common/alpha kit instead.


all i'm trying to say is, the `~ and \| modifier colored keys are included in the base mod most of the time.
your novelty kit is part of the big attraction in your design set, i'm pretty sure a lot of people would get them even if you take out the ~ and \ key from the novelty set.

[MiTo]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

By following the Midnight and Toxic format, both keys are sold separately. This is done because extras in a Base Mod doesn't make sense, since the standard format is not symmetric. I'd call symmetry as an extra feature, in this case. I need more people supporting this idea in order to implement it. Would you guys buy the novelties, even with the mentioned keys on the Base Mods pack?

urm, i think you are mistaken? 

this is midnight's base mod. whatever keys you see in the picture are sold in this base mod.

Show Image

this is toxic's base mod.

Show Image

this is raindrop's base mod.

Show Image

this is granite's common kit, matt does differently by including those 2 keys in the common/alpha kit instead.

Show Image

all i'm trying to say is, the `~ and \| modifier colored keys are included in the base mod most of the time.
your novelty kit is part of the big attraction in your design set, i'm pretty sure a lot of people would get them even if you take out the ~ and \ key from the novelty set.

What were I thinking, you're completely correct. I'll add these keys to the Base Mods. But I'm afraid it would hurt Novelty sales and yet, I don't think it's fair to pay the Novelty price just because of these 2 keys. Decisions to make.

[justnits]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

By following the Midnight and Toxic format, both keys are sold separately. This is done because extras in a Base Mod doesn't make sense, since the standard format is not symmetric. I'd call symmetry as an extra feature, in this case. I need more people supporting this idea in order to implement it. Would you guys buy the novelties, even with the mentioned keys on the Base Mods pack?

urm, i think you are mistaken? 

this is midnight's base mod. whatever keys you see in the picture are sold in this base mod.

Show Image

this is toxic's base mod.

Show Image

this is raindrop's base mod.

Show Image

this is granite's common kit, matt does differently by including those 2 keys in the common/alpha kit instead.

Show Image

all i'm trying to say is, the `~ and \| modifier colored keys are included in the base mod most of the time.
your novelty kit is part of the big attraction in your design set, i'm pretty sure a lot of people would get them even if you take out the ~ and \ key from the novelty set.

What were I thinking, you're completely correct. I'll add these keys to the Base Mods. But I'm afraid it would hurt Novelty sales and yet, I don't think it's fair to pay the Novelty price just because of these 2 keys. Decisions to make.

i understand that dilemma as well
by taking out that 2 keys it will somehow affect the sales on the novelty kit.
but if it's at 50 sets, it'll be $19, which isn't too bad. by taking out that 2 keys, it'll drop the price for the novelty kit a bit maybe? also, i'm not sure if you did mention it anywhere, but that "loud speaker" icon key i believe is a centre stem stepped capslock?

[MiTo]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

By following the Midnight and Toxic format, both keys are sold separately. This is done because extras in a Base Mod doesn't make sense, since the standard format is not symmetric. I'd call symmetry as an extra feature, in this case. I need more people supporting this idea in order to implement it. Would you guys buy the novelties, even with the mentioned keys on the Base Mods pack?

urm, i think you are mistaken? 

this is midnight's base mod. whatever keys you see in the picture are sold in this base mod.

Show Image

this is toxic's base mod.

Show Image

this is raindrop's base mod.

Show Image

this is granite's common kit, matt does differently by including those 2 keys in the common/alpha kit instead.

Show Image

all i'm trying to say is, the `~ and \| modifier colored keys are included in the base mod most of the time.
your novelty kit is part of the big attraction in your design set, i'm pretty sure a lot of people would get them even if you take out the ~ and \ key from the novelty set.

What were I thinking, you're completely correct. I'll add these keys to the Base Mods. But I'm afraid it would hurt Novelty sales and yet, I don't think it's fair to pay the Novelty price just because of these 2 keys. Decisions to make.

i understand that dilemma as well
by taking out that 2 keys it will somehow affect the sales on the novelty kit.
but if it's at 50 sets, it'll be $19, which isn't too bad. by taking out that 2 keys, it'll drop the price for the novelty kit a bit maybe? also, i'm not sure if you did mention it anywhere, but that "loud speaker" icon key i believe is a centre stem stepped capslock?

But I'm not sure if Novelties can make it to 50 orders. Yes, stepped CapsLock.

[MiTo]

Regarding the ErgoDox requests, I need somebody to point me how many keys are needed for an Ergo Pack. Please, include dimensions in the reply as I never touched those things.

[justnits]

Regarding the ErgoDox requests, I need somebody to point me how many keys are needed for an Ergo Pack. Please, include dimensions in the reply as I never touched those things.

The blank ones are the one needed for ergodox.
12 x 1.5u
20 x 1u
4 x 2u

i'm not sure how your keyset row setup is like. but do take note about it for the 1.5u keys beside 1 Q A Z and 0 P ; /
maybe more people should chip in for this, i'm not too familiar with SA keyset on ergodox.

[taylordcraig]

I just want you to know that I'm CRAZY HYPE.
And will be buying the **** out of SA with cherry legends.

[ccc24]

Regarding the ErgoDox requests, I need somebody to point me how many keys are needed for an Ergo Pack. Please, include dimensions in the reply as I never touched those things.

The blank ones are the one needed for ergodox.
12 x 1.5u
20 x 1u
4 x 2u
(Attachment Link)
i'm not sure how your keyset row setup is like. but do take note about it for the 1.5u keys beside 1 Q A Z and 0 P ; /
maybe more people should chip in for this, i'm not too familiar with SA keyset on ergodox.

Usually it's just the 12 x 1.5u and 4 x 2u in ergodox child buys. The extra 1u caps are excluded to save on costs and can be taken from the novelty or base mods. Something like this might help with legends.

[bueller]

Interested in Base mods with Tsangan. Would be awesome to see Cherry Legends on SA, that way we'd have another source for thick Cherry caps.

[LechnerDE]

will the base mods set have ~` and \| key as well?
i saw them in the novelty kits, but most, if not all, base mod kit have these 2 keys in it instead of separating them out to another kit.

Haha, finally an ally for my begging for these two keys in the Mod Kit

By following the Midnight and Toxic format, both keys are sold separately. This is done because extras in a Base Mod doesn't make sense, since the standard format is not symmetric. I'd call symmetry as an extra feature, in this case. I need more people supporting this idea in order to implement it. Would you guys buy the novelties, even with the mentioned keys on the Base Mods pack?

urm, i think you are mistaken? 

this is midnight's base mod. whatever keys you see in the picture are sold in this base mod.

Show Image

this is toxic's base mod.

Show Image

this is raindrop's base mod.

Show Image

this is granite's common kit, matt does differently by including those 2 keys in the common/alpha kit instead.

Show Image

all i'm trying to say is, the `~ and \| modifier colored keys are included in the base mod most of the time.
your novelty kit is part of the big attraction in your design set, i'm pretty sure a lot of people would get them even if you take out the ~ and \ key from the novelty set.

What were I thinking, you're completely correct. I'll add these keys to the Base Mods. But I'm afraid it would hurt Novelty sales and yet, I don't think it's fair to pay the Novelty price just because of these 2 keys. Decisions to make.

Thanks for this 

But since this is going to be SA now, I'll have to pass. Not a big fan of that profile for typing. Maybe you can do a Round 2 in DCS or DSA later!


I still wish you all the best for your GB and hope people keep their word and still be so enthusiastic about SA if they see the final price tag. This will be one of the most expensive sets out there and unfortunately we have seen too many people back out from cheaper GBs...

[BunnyLake]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

[Elrick]

Of course just voted for this on PMK's site.

Anything to do with SA profile I'm there fast.  Hope this gets made soon  .

[LechnerDE]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

[BunnyLake]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

[taylordcraig]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

This. I piped up about paying for one of the legends earlier.
If we are all paying for these molds, they are OUR molds, as a keyboard community.
I believe rights should be given to the community in the way of a representative.
They should be a neutral party though, I don't want to see a key set be disallowed to use the cherry font because of some personal gripe.
If Hashbaz has been diligent in this duty, then so be it.

[MiTo]

Bunny pointed out something really important. I'll talk about this situation in a few hours.

[MiTo]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact EMAIL REDACTED). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

[MiTo]

I have an estimated date for the Group Buy to start. Should I move this thread to the Group Buys forum for maximum support and visibility?

[SpAmRaY]

Might want to edit out that email address.

[BunnyLake]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

[taylordcraig]

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects.

He said they could both own them.
Crowd source it and add it to the repository [in hashbaz dropbox?]

[BunnyLake]

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects.

He said they could both own them.
Crowd source it and add it to the repository [in hashbaz dropbox?]

i dont think you get how it works, we are not talking about files here

these are physical things, that a person owns

he is referring to the files used to make them

[MiTo]

Might want to edit out that email address.

I couldn't hide it before, I freaking hate using mobile because of stuff like that. His mail wasn't supposed to be showing and many more editions were supposed to be showing. Now they're gone because I did the edits on mobile.

[MiTo]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

Bunny, let me begin by saying that I don't like your aggresive approach towards me and what I'm planning to do at all.

I'm not "asking for people to pay me $5000 in goods for running this" or "want to own the legends". I want to own the DESIGN of the legends. The drawings, not physical stuff.

I'm strictly talking about design when I say that I want people to at least request permission to use my custom drawings (I'm talking about icons). I'm the one who spent a decent amount of time drawing the icons in front of my screen and I wanted at least some recognition by doing that, and what I mean is that I do want people warning me that they're gonna use my stuff like:

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

This.

Nothing else. I don't even live in America and can't hold physical molds even if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I'm brazilian and I'm a keyboard enthusiast. I wanted to draw and crowdfund something beautiful and unique, nothing else. PuLSE is the result of that. I'm not planning on owning pieces of plastic with industrial usage. I just want to have rights over design, like hash.

I hereby declare that I'm absolutely fine with the molds being shipped to hashbaz (SP will be warned) and that I do not want people buying me $5000 in goods like you mentioned. If the Cherry Replica Project exists like you mentioned, I'd like to be a part of it as the creator of some custom designs featured in it.

Also, I'll state again that I was talking about files when I proposed a dual-holding.

[BunnyLake]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

Bunny, let me begin by saying that I don't like your aggresive approach towards me and what I'm planning to do at all.

I'm not "asking for people to pay me $5000 in goods for running this" or "want to own the legends". I want to own the DESIGN of the legends. The drawings, not physical stuff.

I'm strictly talking about design when I say that I want people to at least request permission to use my custom drawings (I'm talking about icons). I'm the one who spent a decent amount of time drawing the icons in front of my screen and I wanted at least some recognition by doing that, and what I mean is that I do want people warning me that they're gonna use my stuff like:

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

This.

Nothing else. I don't even live in America and can't hold physical molds even if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I'm brazilian and I'm a keyboard enthusiast. I wanted to draw and crowdfund something beautiful and unique, nothing else. PuLSE is the result of that. I'm not planning on owning pieces of plastic with industrial usage. I just want to have rights over design, like hash.

I hereby declare that I'm absolutely fine with the molds being shipped to hashbaz (SP will be warned) and that I do not want people buying me $5000 in goods like you mentioned. If the Cherry Replica Project exists like you mentioned, I'd like to be a part of it as the creator of some custom designs featured in it.

Also, I'll state again that I was talking about files when I proposed a dual-holding.

the moulds dont get shipped anywhere, they are held by SP, what i was stating is the person that owns them should be hashbaz, as the commmunity would be paying for them, i wasnt being aggressive, i was having to be matter of fact as it seemed you didnt understand my previous message at all, however it is now clear you just didnt have an understanding of the concept of what was going to happen, so it is good i have brought it to light, as it is very important

im not sure why you are talking about drawings, im not sure how relevant owning a picture of a font is

[HoffmanMyster]

MiTo, if you want to own the rights to the legends that you actually drew (the bullhorn, for example), then the community should not be paying for them.

The Cherry Legends, however, are a different animal.  What you're suggesting (unless I'm misunderstanding) is that we pay to have them cut in a different profile, but then you would own them as well.  This is what is creating the dilemma.  Since the Cherry Legend project was very much a community effort, we want to keep that in the hands of the community (in this case, hashbaz).

[BunnyLake]

MiTo, if you want to own the rights to the legends that you actually drew (the bullhorn, for example), then the community should not be paying for them.

The Cherry Legends, however, are a different animal.  What you're suggesting (unless I'm misunderstanding) is that we pay to have them cut in a different profile, but then you would own them as well.  This is what is creating the dilemma.  Since the Cherry Legend project was very much a community effort, we want to keep that in the hands of the community (in this case, hashbaz).

this is exactly correct, nobody is being aggressive with you, you have just shown you dont have an understanding of what is happening

we arent concerned about any drawing you have done for novelty legends, but the cherry legends being cut in SA is very important, and that is all im trying to stress, and lock down what exactly is happening

to be clear, any files or pictures mean absolutely nothing, but those files get used to cut a physical legend, now, even if someone else has that picture, SP wont cut that legend again, that first one that is cut, is owned by someone, and it is up to them who can and cant use it, what we want to make sure, is that if the community pays for these legends, they stay within the community, and the best way to achieve that, is to sign them over to hasbaz once they are made

[MiTo]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

Bunny, let me begin by saying that I don't like your aggresive approach towards me and what I'm planning to do at all.

I'm not "asking for people to pay me $5000 in goods for running this" or "want to own the legends". I want to own the DESIGN of the legends. The drawings, not physical stuff.

I'm strictly talking about design when I say that I want people to at least request permission to use my custom drawings (I'm talking about icons). I'm the one who spent a decent amount of time drawing the icons in front of my screen and I wanted at least some recognition by doing that, and what I mean is that I do want people warning me that they're gonna use my stuff like:

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

This.

Nothing else. I don't even live in America and can't hold physical molds even if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I'm brazilian and I'm a keyboard enthusiast. I wanted to draw and crowdfund something beautiful and unique, nothing else. PuLSE is the result of that. I'm not planning on owning pieces of plastic with industrial usage. I just want to have rights over design, like hash.

I hereby declare that I'm absolutely fine with the molds being shipped to hashbaz (SP will be warned) and that I do not want people buying me $5000 in goods like you mentioned. If the Cherry Replica Project exists like you mentioned, I'd like to be a part of it as the creator of some custom designs featured in it.

Also, I'll state again that I was talking about files when I proposed a dual-holding.

the moulds dont get shipped anywhere, they are held by SP, what i was stating is the person that owns them should be hashbaz, as the commmunity would be paying for them, i wasnt being aggressive, i was having to be matter of fact as it seemed you didnt understand my previous message at all, however it is now clear you just didnt have an understanding of the concept of what was going to happen, so it is good i have brought it to light, as it is very important

im not sure why you are talking about drawings, im not sure how relevant owning a picture of a font is

EDIT: Hoffman cleared the situation. Check reply below.

[MiTo]

"what we want to make sure, is that if the community pays for these legends, they stay within the community, and the best way to achieve that, is to sign them over to hasbaz once they are made"

I strongly agree with this. We can totally sign them to hash as I support the legends being held by our community 100%.

[MiTo]

MiTo, if you want to own the rights to the legends that you actually drew (the bullhorn, for example), then the community should not be paying for them.

The Cherry Legends, however, are a different animal.  What you're suggesting (unless I'm misunderstanding) is that we pay to have them cut in a different profile, but then you would own them as well.  This is what is creating the dilemma.  Since the Cherry Legend project was very much a community effort, we want to keep that in the hands of the community (in this case, hashbaz).

I just want to be warned, nothing else. And I want my work to be held by the community because it's ours and not other people's. 

[absyrd]

It isn't the bullhorn. It is the common characters that could/would be used across MANY sets in the future. You baking the price of ALL those legends into the GB and then retaining rights to ALL of them is the problem. We're talking on the whole, not your single novelty designs.

For example, when trying to get the cherry replica set going at first, people were individually "adopting" a letter or other legend by donating.

Are you understanding this any more yet?

[BunnyLake]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

Bunny, let me begin by saying that I don't like your aggresive approach towards me and what I'm planning to do at all.

I'm not "asking for people to pay me $5000 in goods for running this" or "want to own the legends". I want to own the DESIGN of the legends. The drawings, not physical stuff.

I'm strictly talking about design when I say that I want people to at least request permission to use my custom drawings (I'm talking about icons). I'm the one who spent a decent amount of time drawing the icons in front of my screen and I wanted at least some recognition by doing that, and what I mean is that I do want people warning me that they're gonna use my stuff like:

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

This.

Nothing else. I don't even live in America and can't hold physical molds even if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I'm brazilian and I'm a keyboard enthusiast. I wanted to draw and crowdfund something beautiful and unique, nothing else. PuLSE is the result of that. I'm not planning on owning pieces of plastic with industrial usage. I just want to have rights over design, like hash.

I hereby declare that I'm absolutely fine with the molds being shipped to hashbaz (SP will be warned) and that I do not want people buying me $5000 in goods like you mentioned. If the Cherry Replica Project exists like you mentioned, I'd like to be a part of it as the creator of some custom designs featured in it.

Also, I'll state again that I was talking about files when I proposed a dual-holding.

the moulds dont get shipped anywhere, they are held by SP, what i was stating is the person that owns them should be hashbaz, as the commmunity would be paying for them, i wasnt being aggressive, i was having to be matter of fact as it seemed you didnt understand my previous message at all, however it is now clear you just didnt have an understanding of the concept of what was going to happen, so it is good i have brought it to light, as it is very important

im not sure why you are talking about drawings, im not sure how relevant owning a picture of a font is

If they are not shipped to anyone, why did you say that the "community would be buying me $5000 in goods"? And why hashbaz and not hashbaz and me since I designed a lot of stuff? Dude, I'd say a loud and clear "YES" to EVERYBODY who request permission to use the legends. I want to be warned because the drawings are mine. Just WARNED. Nothing else. I just want to be aware of what kind of keyset is using my icons, because I want to be proud of other people's work featuring my stuff. A simple

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

is enough. If you really want hashbaz to hold it because you guys have a strong financial interest in it, well, what can I do?

to be clear, you arent designing the cherry legends, you are using the svgs hashbaz worked on right, which are a replica of the cherry legends, they are not your design, if you want to make novelty keys outside of the cherry legends, that is totally fine and nobody has an issue with that

if you use hashbaz's files, which you said you took from his drop box, for the cherry replica legends, and we as a community pay for those to be made, i cant see why for any reason, anyone would or should need to ask your permission to use them

this has been a community project for a long time, one myself and many others have contributed a lot of time money and effort in to, and we are simply trying to protect that

[MiTo]

It isn't the bullhorn. It is the common characters that could/would be used across MANY sets in the future. You baking the price of ALL those legends into the GB and then retaining rights to ALL of them is the problem. We're talking on the whole, not your single novelty designs.

For example, when trying to get the cherry replica set going at first, people were individually "adopting" a letter or other legend by donating.

Are you understanding this any more yet?

Understood, Hoffman cleared everything. The common characters will be available for future usage and the novelties too, if people want them. Hashbaz can hold it in order to make sure it will stay with us.

If it tips, SA profile with Cherry Legends would be insanely cheaper.

Imagine how GREAT that would be. PuLSE would be remembered as the first ever to feature it as it oppened the doors for other amazing projects.

[MiTo]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

Bunny, let me begin by saying that I don't like your aggresive approach towards me and what I'm planning to do at all.

I'm not "asking for people to pay me $5000 in goods for running this" or "want to own the legends". I want to own the DESIGN of the legends. The drawings, not physical stuff.

I'm strictly talking about design when I say that I want people to at least request permission to use my custom drawings (I'm talking about icons). I'm the one who spent a decent amount of time drawing the icons in front of my screen and I wanted at least some recognition by doing that, and what I mean is that I do want people warning me that they're gonna use my stuff like:

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

This.

Nothing else. I don't even live in America and can't hold physical molds even if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I'm brazilian and I'm a keyboard enthusiast. I wanted to draw and crowdfund something beautiful and unique, nothing else. PuLSE is the result of that. I'm not planning on owning pieces of plastic with industrial usage. I just want to have rights over design, like hash.

I hereby declare that I'm absolutely fine with the molds being shipped to hashbaz (SP will be warned) and that I do not want people buying me $5000 in goods like you mentioned. If the Cherry Replica Project exists like you mentioned, I'd like to be a part of it as the creator of some custom designs featured in it.

Also, I'll state again that I was talking about files when I proposed a dual-holding.

the moulds dont get shipped anywhere, they are held by SP, what i was stating is the person that owns them should be hashbaz, as the commmunity would be paying for them, i wasnt being aggressive, i was having to be matter of fact as it seemed you didnt understand my previous message at all, however it is now clear you just didnt have an understanding of the concept of what was going to happen, so it is good i have brought it to light, as it is very important

im not sure why you are talking about drawings, im not sure how relevant owning a picture of a font is

If they are not shipped to anyone, why did you say that the "community would be buying me $5000 in goods"? And why hashbaz and not hashbaz and me since I designed a lot of stuff? Dude, I'd say a loud and clear "YES" to EVERYBODY who request permission to use the legends. I want to be warned because the drawings are mine. Just WARNED. Nothing else. I just want to be aware of what kind of keyset is using my icons, because I want to be proud of other people's work featuring my stuff. A simple

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

is enough. If you really want hashbaz to hold it because you guys have a strong financial interest in it, well, what can I do?

to be clear, you arent designing the cherry legends, you are using the svgs hashbaz worked on right, which are a replica of the cherry legends, they are not your design, if you want to make novelty keys outside of the cherry legends, that is totally fine and nobody has an issue with that

if you use hashbaz's files, which you said you took from his drop box, for the cherry replica legends, and we as a community pay for those to be made, i cant see why for any reason, anyone would or should need to ask your permission to use them

this has been a community project for a long time, one myself and many others have contributed a lot of time money and effort in to, and we are simply trying to protect that

It's already protected as I agreed with the terms since hashbaz first emailed me. Permission for the Novelties will be easy to get too, I'll  hold'em on a separate .svg.

[BunnyLake]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

Bunny, let me begin by saying that I don't like your aggresive approach towards me and what I'm planning to do at all.

I'm not "asking for people to pay me $5000 in goods for running this" or "want to own the legends". I want to own the DESIGN of the legends. The drawings, not physical stuff.

I'm strictly talking about design when I say that I want people to at least request permission to use my custom drawings (I'm talking about icons). I'm the one who spent a decent amount of time drawing the icons in front of my screen and I wanted at least some recognition by doing that, and what I mean is that I do want people warning me that they're gonna use my stuff like:

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

This.

Nothing else. I don't even live in America and can't hold physical molds even if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I'm brazilian and I'm a keyboard enthusiast. I wanted to draw and crowdfund something beautiful and unique, nothing else. PuLSE is the result of that. I'm not planning on owning pieces of plastic with industrial usage. I just want to have rights over design, like hash.

I hereby declare that I'm absolutely fine with the molds being shipped to hashbaz (SP will be warned) and that I do not want people buying me $5000 in goods like you mentioned. If the Cherry Replica Project exists like you mentioned, I'd like to be a part of it as the creator of some custom designs featured in it.

Also, I'll state again that I was talking about files when I proposed a dual-holding.

the moulds dont get shipped anywhere, they are held by SP, what i was stating is the person that owns them should be hashbaz, as the commmunity would be paying for them, i wasnt being aggressive, i was having to be matter of fact as it seemed you didnt understand my previous message at all, however it is now clear you just didnt have an understanding of the concept of what was going to happen, so it is good i have brought it to light, as it is very important

im not sure why you are talking about drawings, im not sure how relevant owning a picture of a font is

If they are not shipped to anyone, why did you say that the "community would be buying me $5000 in goods"? And why hashbaz and not hashbaz and me since I designed a lot of stuff? Dude, I'd say a loud and clear "YES" to EVERYBODY who request permission to use the legends. I want to be warned because the drawings are mine. Just WARNED. Nothing else. I just want to be aware of what kind of keyset is using my icons, because I want to be proud of other people's work featuring my stuff. A simple

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

is enough. If you really want hashbaz to hold it because you guys have a strong financial interest in it, well, what can I do?

to be clear, you arent designing the cherry legends, you are using the svgs hashbaz worked on right, which are a replica of the cherry legends, they are not your design, if you want to make novelty keys outside of the cherry legends, that is totally fine and nobody has an issue with that

if you use hashbaz's files, which you said you took from his drop box, for the cherry replica legends, and we as a community pay for those to be made, i cant see why for any reason, anyone would or should need to ask your permission to use them

this has been a community project for a long time, one myself and many others have contributed a lot of time money and effort in to, and we are simply trying to protect that

It's already protected as I agreed with the terms since hashbaz first emailed me. Permission for the Novelties will be easy to get too, I'll  hold'em on a separate .svg.

the svgs mean nothing sir, nobody needs them to use the legend, im not gonna keep taking room up in this thread, if you want to discuss it further, and for me to explain how this all works, as if you are gonna do this stuff its important you know what you are getting in to, you can pm me or talk to me on skype

[HoffmanMyster]

It's already protected as I agreed with the terms since hashbaz first emailed me. Permission for the Novelties will be easy to get too, I'll  hold'em on a separate .svg.

So you still want to hold the rights to the legends that you design?  We won't be paying for them then, I assume?

Also, since I've never run a GB, can someone clear something up for me: does having an .svg matter once the keys are cut?  Wouldn't we just go to SP and ask for a colorway in SA with Cherry Legends?  We don't need to present the .svg files every time, do we?

Edit: woops! Bunny answered my question.   

[BunnyLake]

It's already protected as I agreed with the terms since hashbaz first emailed me. Permission for the Novelties will be easy to get too, I'll  hold'em on a separate .svg.

So you still want to hold the rights to the legends that you design?  We won't be paying for them then, I assume?

Also, since I've never run a GB, can someone clear something up for me: does having an .svg matter once the keys are cut?  Wouldn't we just go to SP and ask for a colorway in SA with Cherry Legends?  We don't need to present the .svg files every time, do we?

once the legends are made, you can delete the svgs, totally worthless and useless as far as making future key sets are concerned sir

i would also suggest, before this goes ahead, we have in writing from sp or something to confirm the legends will indeed be in hashbaz's control

[MiTo]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

Bunny, let me begin by saying that I don't like your aggresive approach towards me and what I'm planning to do at all.

I'm not "asking for people to pay me $5000 in goods for running this" or "want to own the legends". I want to own the DESIGN of the legends. The drawings, not physical stuff.

I'm strictly talking about design when I say that I want people to at least request permission to use my custom drawings (I'm talking about icons). I'm the one who spent a decent amount of time drawing the icons in front of my screen and I wanted at least some recognition by doing that, and what I mean is that I do want people warning me that they're gonna use my stuff like:

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

This.

Nothing else. I don't even live in America and can't hold physical molds even if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I'm brazilian and I'm a keyboard enthusiast. I wanted to draw and crowdfund something beautiful and unique, nothing else. PuLSE is the result of that. I'm not planning on owning pieces of plastic with industrial usage. I just want to have rights over design, like hash.

I hereby declare that I'm absolutely fine with the molds being shipped to hashbaz (SP will be warned) and that I do not want people buying me $5000 in goods like you mentioned. If the Cherry Replica Project exists like you mentioned, I'd like to be a part of it as the creator of some custom designs featured in it.

Also, I'll state again that I was talking about files when I proposed a dual-holding.

the moulds dont get shipped anywhere, they are held by SP, what i was stating is the person that owns them should be hashbaz, as the commmunity would be paying for them, i wasnt being aggressive, i was having to be matter of fact as it seemed you didnt understand my previous message at all, however it is now clear you just didnt have an understanding of the concept of what was going to happen, so it is good i have brought it to light, as it is very important

im not sure why you are talking about drawings, im not sure how relevant owning a picture of a font is

If they are not shipped to anyone, why did you say that the "community would be buying me $5000 in goods"? And why hashbaz and not hashbaz and me since I designed a lot of stuff? Dude, I'd say a loud and clear "YES" to EVERYBODY who request permission to use the legends. I want to be warned because the drawings are mine. Just WARNED. Nothing else. I just want to be aware of what kind of keyset is using my icons, because I want to be proud of other people's work featuring my stuff. A simple

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

is enough. If you really want hashbaz to hold it because you guys have a strong financial interest in it, well, what can I do?

to be clear, you arent designing the cherry legends, you are using the svgs hashbaz worked on right, which are a replica of the cherry legends, they are not your design, if you want to make novelty keys outside of the cherry legends, that is totally fine and nobody has an issue with that

if you use hashbaz's files, which you said you took from his drop box, for the cherry replica legends, and we as a community pay for those to be made, i cant see why for any reason, anyone would or should need to ask your permission to use them

this has been a community project for a long time, one myself and many others have contributed a lot of time money and effort in to, and we are simply trying to protect that

It's already protected as I agreed with the terms since hashbaz first emailed me. Permission for the Novelties will be easy to get too, I'll  hold'em on a separate .svg.

the svgs mean nothing sir, nobody needs them to use the legend, im not gonna keep taking room up in this thread, if you want to discuss it further, and for me to explain how this all works, as if you are gonna do this stuff its important you know what you are getting in to, you can pm me or talk to me on skype

What the actual... Man. Mate.

Let me tell you something. You came to my thread sounding really rude as if I was stealing something from someone without even knowing that I already had spoke with hashbaz via email, about the Cherry Replica rights and files. I already said 3 or 4 times that I'm ok with everything you guys said and that hashbaz can hold the rights. Yet, you're here being rude with me. I don't need to pm you or talk to you via Skype because the situation is already solved (there's like half an hour, in case you didn't notice it). You posted probably 5 times without being clear in pretty much any of the posts (as apparently you can't use commas and periods) talking a lot of **** like "YOU ARE GETTING PEOPLE TO PAY YOU $5K IN GOODS" and then luckly, people like HoffmanMyster and absyrd cleared everything in two sentences, basically. I don't want to sound rude or stupid with you, but please, don't make this personal or hate me. Believe me, I'm a nice guy and we can coexist! I just want something nice to be done!

SP WAS ALREADY TOLD TO GIVE RIGHTS TO HASHBAZ.

[MiTo]

It's already protected as I agreed with the terms since hashbaz first emailed me. Permission for the Novelties will be easy to get too, I'll  hold'em on a separate .svg.

So you still want to hold the rights to the legends that you design?  We won't be paying for them then, I assume?

Also, since I've never run a GB, can someone clear something up for me: does having an .svg matter once the keys are cut?  Wouldn't we just go to SP and ask for a colorway in SA with Cherry Legends?  We don't need to present the .svg files every time, do we?

Edit: woops! Bunny answered my question.   

I want to be warned, nothing else.

[SpAmRaY]

aside from everything else with the shape and profile of SA caps will cherry legends look right on them?

[BunnyLake]

as each person would be essentially buying a legend, the important thing here is to find out who owns the legends, if sp owns them, we shouldnt be paying for them, if you own them, we shouldnt be paying for them

the way sp work is, if you buy a legend, you own it, nobody can use it without your permission, hashbaz owns most of the cherry legends, i have purchased a lot of extra cherry legends which we own, but gave full permission to hashbaz to include with anyone he grants use of the cherry legends too for dcs profile, essentially handing them over to him

so if each person is paying towards the cherry legends, it is worth locking down what is happening with them, if mito owns them and you are paying, nobody could ever use them without express written permission from him, whether he says so or not, he can essentially hold them to ransom for jsut him to use, if sp owns them and we are paying for them, they can subsequently make money form them in the future, and again, we shouldnt be paying for that

im not saying this shouldnt happen, but more info needs to be given about ownership of the legends, and the future of them

Good point!

In my opinion the legends should be given to Hashbaz (or any other Geekhack reprensentative like MKawa), so the community can use them in the future as well.

A single person shouldn't own them unless he paid for them himself.

i totally agree, hashbaz has been great with allowing people to use thee legends without being overly restrictive, and i think if this were to happen, having them in his name would be fair for everyone involved

if this or something similar is not the case, i would strongly advise everyone to question supporting this happening

Bunny let me first say that I'm pretty happy with this thread getting your attention. You guys at Ctrl.Alt rock when it comes to good design and group buys. This is my first time ever trying to do it and hopefully, everything will run smooth. Thank you for being here.

About hashbaz and the right over the legends:

On the early stages of PuLSE development, the keyset didn't feature Cherry Replica font legends. It used Helvetica Round and after doing some research, I found out that Helvetica indeed looks like Cherry, but it's not the same. So, I began to search for the "legit" Cherry Replica font. Couldn't find anywhere, so I mailed people here on GH and specially, talked to somebody who provided me hashbaz files, which are available on his Dropbox. I got the files, and began working on them, trying to make them useful and smooth. I had to do some work in the .svgs in order to make the letters fit the PMK 0.02" rule.

After that, I mailed Melissa about starting this set with PMK and she answered the following:

"I assumed you were using the Cherry Font (you need to get permission to use this, which is easy to do - contact NO PERSONAL INFORMATION). It is the icons that need to be re-drawn, and you are right, pretty much all of them need to be done."

Of course, I contacted hashbaz, who's a super cool dude and he stated that I have permission to use the Cherry Replica Font, as long as new relevant sutff (and I assume he's talking about my custom icons, I'm yet to figure that out because he didn't answer me yet) get added to the Cherry Font for future usage. He also, asked for some of my .svg files and I said that I'm totally ok with it, but that I needed to know which ones specifically he was talking about.

That said, hashbaz is still the Cherry Replica Font holder and I've got the polished design (and files) featuring custom "Cherry Replica" icons. I believe we both could hold these files and then provide permission for others to use it in future projects. taylordcraig mentioned neutral parties and since pretty much nobody here knows me, I'd give permission to anyone who asks without thinking twice.


Everything for the community, it's our work, it's our stuff.

EDIT: I can be the holder of the Cherry Replica font on SA profile if you people think that's the right thing to do. Nobody would be allowed to use them without my permission (which would be easily granted for anyone who asks).

this is exactly what i was afraid of

each legend for the cherry font on SA is different to dcs, what you are asking is this community to buy YOU these legends, and that is the problem, if YOU want to own the legends, YOU should buy them, in which case, there would be ZERO additional cost per set for anybody taking part in this GB

what you are asking is essentially for this community to pay you $5000 in goods for running this

your response is precisely what i was warning against

however let me be very clear, as much as you say you would give permission for anybody to use these legends, firstly, who knows if that will change down the line, secondly, people shouldnt have to seek permission to use something that they as a community paid for

what i would propose is this

if you would like to own these legends, simply pay for them, then they are yours to do with as you please, and it would significantly reduce the cost of this set for everyone

alternatively

continue as is, and crowdsource the funding for these legends with the additional fee in the GB, but have all legends signed over to hashbaz, to be made part of the cherry replica font project

Bunny, let me begin by saying that I don't like your aggresive approach towards me and what I'm planning to do at all.

I'm not "asking for people to pay me $5000 in goods for running this" or "want to own the legends". I want to own the DESIGN of the legends. The drawings, not physical stuff.

I'm strictly talking about design when I say that I want people to at least request permission to use my custom drawings (I'm talking about icons). I'm the one who spent a decent amount of time drawing the icons in front of my screen and I wanted at least some recognition by doing that, and what I mean is that I do want people warning me that they're gonna use my stuff like:

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

This.

Nothing else. I don't even live in America and can't hold physical molds even if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to do anything with it. I'm brazilian and I'm a keyboard enthusiast. I wanted to draw and crowdfund something beautiful and unique, nothing else. PuLSE is the result of that. I'm not planning on owning pieces of plastic with industrial usage. I just want to have rights over design, like hash.

I hereby declare that I'm absolutely fine with the molds being shipped to hashbaz (SP will be warned) and that I do not want people buying me $5000 in goods like you mentioned. If the Cherry Replica Project exists like you mentioned, I'd like to be a part of it as the creator of some custom designs featured in it.

Also, I'll state again that I was talking about files when I proposed a dual-holding.

the moulds dont get shipped anywhere, they are held by SP, what i was stating is the person that owns them should be hashbaz, as the commmunity would be paying for them, i wasnt being aggressive, i was having to be matter of fact as it seemed you didnt understand my previous message at all, however it is now clear you just didnt have an understanding of the concept of what was going to happen, so it is good i have brought it to light, as it is very important

im not sure why you are talking about drawings, im not sure how relevant owning a picture of a font is

If they are not shipped to anyone, why did you say that the "community would be buying me $5000 in goods"? And why hashbaz and not hashbaz and me since I designed a lot of stuff? Dude, I'd say a loud and clear "YES" to EVERYBODY who request permission to use the legends. I want to be warned because the drawings are mine. Just WARNED. Nothing else. I just want to be aware of what kind of keyset is using my icons, because I want to be proud of other people's work featuring my stuff. A simple

"Hey MiTo, I love your Cherry Replica custom Bullhorn design, can I use it on the Caps Lock of my Awesome Keyset? I'll submit it to PMK and Melissa told me I need your permission."

is enough. If you really want hashbaz to hold it because you guys have a strong financial interest in it, well, what can I do?

to be clear, you arent designing the cherry legends, you are using the svgs hashbaz worked on right, which are a replica of the cherry legends, they are not your design, if you want to make novelty keys outside of the cherry legends, that is totally fine and nobody has an issue with that

if you use hashbaz's files, which you said you took from his drop box, for the cherry replica legends, and we as a community pay for those to be made, i cant see why for any reason, anyone would or should need to ask your permission to use them

this has been a community project for a long time, one myself and many others have contributed a lot of time money and effort in to, and we are simply trying to protect that

It's already protected as I agreed with the terms since hashbaz first emailed me. Permission for the Novelties will be easy to get too, I'll  hold'em on a separate .svg.

the svgs mean nothing sir, nobody needs them to use the legend, im not gonna keep taking room up in this thread, if you want to discuss it further, and for me to explain how this all works, as if you are gonna do this stuff its important you know what you are getting in to, you can pm me or talk to me on skype

What the actual... Man. Mate.

Let me tell you something. You came to my thread sounding really rude as if I was stealing something from someone without even knowing that I already had spoke with hashbaz via email, about the Cherry Replica rights and files. I already said 3 or 4 times that I'm ok with everything you guys said and that hashbaz can hold the rights. Yet, you're here being rude with me. I don't need to pm you or talk to you via Skype because the situation is already solved (there's like half an hour, in case you didn't notice it). You posted probably 5 times without being clear in pretty much any of the posts (as apparently you can't use commas and periods) talking a lot of **** like "YOU ARE GETTING PEOPLE TO PAY YOU $5K IN GOODS" and then luckly, people like HoffmanMyster and absyrd cleared everything in two sentences, basically. I don't want to sound rude or stupid with you, but please, don't make this personal or hate me. Believe me, I'm a nice guy and we can coexist! I just want something nice to be done!

SP WAS ALREADY TOLD TO GIVE RIGHTS TO HASHBAZ.

i was trying to be helpful, offering you some advice and to help you understand, you say others have cleared it up for you, but you still have absolutely no clue what is going on, im not your man, im not your mate, i wasnt being rude to you, i was stating facts,  and every time you would reply and quote my message, you were completely ignoring what i was saying, talking about something totally different

instead of attacking me, why not try and be a little humble, admit you dont understand what we are talking about and seek advice, instead of talking about your legacy