Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 02:32:09
Hi friends,
I'm happy to introduce you to the re-run of SA Symbiosis keycap. It was 2015, xblackdog (https://www.reddit.com/user/xblackdog) designed and ran the R1 of SA Symbiosis keycap, which was of all R3 profile, with a few add on kits such as Ergodox. 2015 was a long time ago, and it's time to bring it back recently.
About 6 months ago, I talked to xblackdog again for the re-run. Since he was too busy for it, the idea that maybe I should give a try occured to my mind. Recently, I finally have the time to do it. I asked xblackdog for the permission for the rerun and chatted with him about the idea to make changes to the keyset. He was kindly ok with those changes and gave me the permission. Here is the email he replied to Melissa of SP to confirm the permission granted.
[attachimg=1]
I really like this Symbiosis keyset, not only its nicely blue/grey color theme, but also the its symbolism of the space-cadet keyboard, and, what's in the bigger picture, the Lisp Machine. As a programmer myself, with faith love to the Lisp programming language, I think it's great to bring Symbiosis keyset back with a new design, which pays homage to the Lisp Machine and its space-cadet keyboard in history.
[attachimg=2]
SA Symbiosis Round 2 will still be an ABS double shot keyset of SA profile, made by Signature Plastics.
Renders:
(https://i.imgur.com/Uk9B74x.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/DUPolAQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/x9YzxLQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fDRqRxa.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ePvCXrv.png)
Kits:
1. Alphas
(https://i.imgur.com/Mob82eM.jpg)
The APL legends of Symbiosis R1 are slightly different from the original space-cadet keyboard. We will build new legends in R2 so that they will match nicely in R2.
Yeah, this alpha is sculpted but not flat like R1. :D
2. Modifiers
(https://i.imgur.com/MYJ8In4.jpg)
3. Extension
(https://i.imgur.com/D2Ukpq7.jpg)
4. Numpad
(https://i.imgur.com/ongXWB3.jpg)
5. Ergodox
(https://i.imgur.com/URMHRlu.jpg)
It uses special forms and functions in Lisp programming language as legends.
6. Ortho
(https://i.imgur.com/HN5PzcD.jpg)
7. 40s
(https://i.imgur.com/VRiTW4r.jpg)
8. NorDeUK
(https://i.imgur.com/ns7mEiG.jpg)
9. Colevrak
(https://i.imgur.com/NKrGh4A.jpg)
10. Vim
(https://i.imgur.com/E6IT0M9.jpg)
I'm a heavy emacs user. I know there is no place for vim regarding to the Lisp Machine enviroment. But I do appreciate the arrange of those arrow keys in the alpha layout of R1. The idea behind it is: at the first place, we should make the default layout for the alpha kit loyal to the space-cadet keyboard; and if vim users want to reflect their preference to these arrows symbols, they got their chance to be happy. Since the MOQ of SP SA is not high, this strategy seems workable.
11. Cadet
(https://i.imgur.com/5byvplT.jpg)
12. Gray Choices
(https://i.imgur.com/N8I5quP.jpg)
13. Blue Choices
(https://i.imgur.com/xMNNPTk.jpg)
14. Arrows
(https://i.imgur.com/LE1uvRw.jpg)
15. Game
(https://i.imgur.com/O7qOcU5.jpg)
16. Spacekeys
(https://i.imgur.com/03TSZRX.jpg)
17. Gray Spacebars
(https://i.imgur.com/yAqX5PD.jpg)
18. Blue Spacebars
(https://i.imgur.com/euAVeqP.jpg)
19. Yellow Spacebars
(https://i.imgur.com/uFgjLAX.jpg)
20. Novelties
(https://i.imgur.com/LT6Oihi.jpg)
These novelty keys include(from top to bottom):
1) Row 1
Parenthesized lambda, which usually is the symbol of Lisp
Emacs logo, Emacs(a general name for all variants) is the editor popular in Lisp environment
Graphics logo, the combination of a triangle, a square and a circle is usually used to express the advances in the graphic system of Lisp Machine
2) Row 2
A logo "Symbiosis" in retro font style, just as the font style in which Symbolics Space-Cadet keyboard was labeled.
3) Row 3
Happy Hacking, a jargon among hackers in MIT AI Lab back to 1970s. It's said that Richard Stallman created it to wish another person plenty of hacking fun. It means "May you have happy hacking", just like the hacking version of "Have a nice trip", or "May the Force be with you". This jargon later is used as one part of the name of a PFU keyboard series, the Happy Hacking Keyboards.
The LMI logo, LMI(Lisp Machines, Inc.) was a company formed in 1979 by Richard Greenblatt of MIT's AI Lab to build Lisp machines.
4) Row 4, Row 5
The same novelty legends mentioned above, just in different size or profile.
21. CADR
(https://i.imgur.com/x4HLPh7.jpg)
A flat layout kit of all R3, as a revival of Symbiosis R1.
Colors:
[attachimg=3]
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[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94288.0][img width=480 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/DxRYWx0.png[/img][/url]Post by: kmba on Wed, 28 February 2018, 06:47:48
Post by: LightningXI on Wed, 28 February 2018, 07:11:59
Sent from my mobile using Tapatalk
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 28 February 2018, 07:25:13
Post by: crtexcnndrm99 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 07:58:52
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:07:13
7bit runs should be of no concern to anyone. We know the community can support different profiles of the same set within reasonable proximity if they're very popular colorways (see gmk vs SA Oblivion, SA vs xda Godspeed, etc) but attempting to run them concurrently is just a bad idea. Obviously both sets being in IC phase doesn't mean they'll both run at the same time, but it certainly will divide purchasers knowing that both sets will potentially be available in the near future. You say you've only got one chance to get it right, so by all means collect interest, but I'd just suggest to time the actual buy appropriately so that you will get enough support when it matters so we can have two great sets.
Thank you for the suggestion. I totally agree with that timing is important. Sure both GBs would not happen concurrently, and I'm not going rush my steps on SA Symbiosis R2 just to push its GB ahead of GMK GB. Given the facts that GMK has much faster queuing, Oblotzky has much more experience in this area and GMK space-cadet is quite solid in kits config, etc, while SP SA has much longer queue and the SA Symbiosis R2 still has a long road to go, the GB of Symbiosis R2 will actually happen much later than GMK space-cadet in my opinion.
The reason to start Symbiosis IC right now, not one year later from now when the GMK space-cadet concludes, is because the SA keyset usually has a long running time. It usually takes months(or even more than 1 year) for the IC phase, and then 10~12 months for the manufacture. If the IC starts in 2019, it would go to the end of 2020 for the GB to complete. It would be a really long time to wait then. In that case, I would like to use this time(maybe one year) to see what's the feedbacks on the design, and try to work out something like front printing.
Post by: packman86 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:07:26
GMK Oblivion and SA Oblivion ran very close together and SA Oblivion is still not shipping.
I am very interested in this keyset as well as GMK Space Cadet. I don't know which one I'll buy, but I do like that there are 2 options for profiles for a keyset that I enjoy.
Post by: schmoktopus on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:23:08
Oh and screw the waiting time, this is a dream coming true.
Post by: dantambok on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:36:54
Post by: beamingrobot on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:43:05
Post by: beekey on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:45:03
Otherwise very beautiful. :)
Post by: aspenc4 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:45:55
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:47:03
Have you considered including a Hyper7 Kit? Would be sooooo cool.
Oh and screw the waiting time, this is a dream coming true.
PCB R2 is now on if you are interested in Hyper7!! I do think that 7bit owns a number of design components of H7 keycaps tho so not sure if it will be possible
https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/80qyvs/ic_hyper_7_r2_pcbs/
Post by: xondat on Wed, 28 February 2018, 08:51:09
Or at least sell blank POS 2u caps, there are 30 per H7 board so would easily sell a lot.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 09:27:03
Have you considered including a Hyper7 Kit? Would be sooooo cool.
Oh and screw the waiting time, this is a dream coming true.
Hyper7 kit please & thanks.
Or at least sell blank POS 2u caps, there are 30 per H7 board so would easily sell a lot.
In general I would add kits if there are requests for them and the MOQ is not the problem. That's what the IC for.
What keycaps are there of a Hyper7 kit? Could anyone list them all in detail? Thanks.
Post by: xondat on Wed, 28 February 2018, 09:32:04
In general I would add kits if there are requests for them and the MOQ is not the problem. That's what the IC for.
What keycaps are there of a Hyper7 kit? Could anyone list them all in detail? Thanks.
(https://deskthority.net/w/images/8/83/HONEYB_HYPER7_CADET.png)
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_6#Hyper7_kits
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Wed, 28 February 2018, 09:32:54
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Wed, 28 February 2018, 09:50:05
Have you considered including a Hyper7 Kit? Would be sooooo cool.
Oh and screw the waiting time, this is a dream coming true.Hyper7 kit please & thanks.
Or at least sell blank POS 2u caps, there are 30 per H7 board so would easily sell a lot.
In general I would add kits if there are requests for them and the MOQ is not the problem. That's what the IC for.
What keycaps are there of a Hyper7 kit? Could anyone list them all in detail? Thanks.
I'm running the Hyper 7 PCB Group Buy after finishing my board - PM me if you wanna talk this through as an option
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 10:06:10
Would love to see the addition of 2,25 and 2,75 R3 blank/space keys. A lot of sets have them now because of the split space 60% keyboards.
Otherwise very beautiful. :)
Sorry, I forgot to add the spacebar kit, which includes the 2.25 and 2.75 R3 space keys. I will add it later.
Post by: hansichen on Wed, 28 February 2018, 10:16:13
Post by: merlin64 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 10:28:19
2015 was the year I first joined GH and thought "why would anyone spend $$$ on a keyset? It's not even PBT!" Oh how I regret my foolishness.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 10:30:12
With a Hyper 7 kit and proper rows this GB should be named Round 7 or Round 8 and not Symbiosis R2
Actually I don't know Hyper7 before you guys mentioned previously. I don't want things to happen in this way like you said. I would like to avoid crossing the line, carefully, even though that requires to say no to some requests.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 10:42:17
In general I would add kits if there are requests for them and the MOQ is not the problem. That's what the IC for.
What keycaps are there of a Hyper7 kit? Could anyone list them all in detail? Thanks.Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/8/83/HONEYB_HYPER7_CADET.png)
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_6#Hyper7_kits
Thanks for the photo. It concerns me that it's from Round 6. It seems to cross the line if I add this kit, which is specified in Round 6, not a layout from the original space-cadet keyboard. In that case, I'm sorry to say no to the request of adding it to Symbiosis R2. Please correct me if I understand anything in the wrong way.
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Wed, 28 February 2018, 10:45:49
In general I would add kits if there are requests for them and the MOQ is not the problem. That's what the IC for.
What keycaps are there of a Hyper7 kit? Could anyone list them all in detail? Thanks.Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/8/83/HONEYB_HYPER7_CADET.png)
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_6#Hyper7_kits
Thanks for the photo. It concerns me that it's from Round 6. It seems to cross the line if I add this kit, which is specified in Round 6, not a layout from the original space-cadet keyboard. In that case, I'm sorry to say no to the request of adding it to Symbiosis R2. Please correct me if I understand anything in the wrong way.
well, if you are changing the symbiosis legends then the Round 6 etc hits tkl, 60% and other layouts - if you have the demand it might be that h7 tips you over your MoQ
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 10:47:29
VERY NICE!! I'm excited for this!
2015 was the year I first joined GH and thought "why would anyone spend $$$ on a keyset? It's not even PBT!" Oh how I regret my foolishness.
Me too! Except I loved the look of SA so picked up a set.. Sold it for $110 with the numpad and gamer kits half a year later. Probably my biggest regret since getting into keyboards:P
Looking forward to seeing this set run again!
Post by: tex_live_utility on Wed, 28 February 2018, 10:58:38
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 11:07:16
In general I would add kits if there are requests for them and the MOQ is not the problem. That's what the IC for.
What keycaps are there of a Hyper7 kit? Could anyone list them all in detail? Thanks.Show Image(https://deskthority.net/w/images/8/83/HONEYB_HYPER7_CADET.png)
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_6#Hyper7_kits
Thanks for the photo. It concerns me that it's from Round 6. It seems to cross the line if I add this kit, which is specified in Round 6, not a layout from the original space-cadet keyboard. In that case, I'm sorry to say no to the request of adding it to Symbiosis R2. Please correct me if I understand anything in the wrong way.
well, if you are changing the symbiosis legends then the Round 6 etc hits tkl, 60% and other layouts - if you have the demand it might be that h7 tips you over your MoQ
The point is: Symbiosis (no matter R1, R2) and other keysets inspired by space-cadet keyboard, are to pay homage to space-cadet keyboard, its layout and symbols. Although I change the APL legends for Symbiosis R2, it means to match the original space-cadet keyboard symbols, not the R6 symbols or layouts. That's different from coping a R6 specified layout.
I understand it will help the sale of Symbiosis R2 if Hyper7 kit is added. But it doesn't seem to be the right way. Sorry.
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Wed, 28 February 2018, 12:04:59
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Wed, 28 February 2018, 12:17:07
Post by: zslane on Wed, 28 February 2018, 12:29:08
However, for my own part, I sort of wish this was going to be uniform row3 like the original Symbiosis. I would want this for my 60% board, and I find uniform profiles to just work better on small keyboards for some reason.
In addition, I'd like to see a kit that offers all the oddball keys (in their unconventional sizes) from the original Space Cadet keyboard, like all the 2u keys that go across the top. The reason for this is that I'd like to someday explore the idea of a GB for a custom PCB/plate/case that replicates the Space Cadet, and it would need matching keycaps to go with it. Introducing a fourth Space Cadet keycap set (in either SA or DSS) would really put this hobby under Space Cadet fatigue, I think, which would be a shame.
Post by: Emily on Wed, 28 February 2018, 14:11:29
Post by: achilles_other_heel on Wed, 28 February 2018, 14:59:38
Post by: ihalatch on Wed, 28 February 2018, 15:00:29
Post by: floristfran on Wed, 28 February 2018, 15:12:57
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 28 February 2018, 16:05:18
Post by: packman86 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 16:14:39
should look into getting this run on MD, otherwise it might be too expensive
Reluctantly agree...
Post by: schmoktopus on Wed, 28 February 2018, 16:40:29
I mean, with the other IC that is currently running, you could literally built your very own and complete Hyper7 Keyboard. I would do that.
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Wed, 28 February 2018, 17:03:46
Would be so great to get the Hyper7 Keeb.
I mean, with the other IC that is currently running, you could literally built your very own and complete Hyper7 Keyboard. I would do that.
Yep I’m the guy with the H7 and running the PCB IC but looks like no dice here
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 21:46:40
Is this just a way to get an SA Space Cadet keycap set into people's hands who missed out on 7bit's Round 6 (or maybe didn't want to deal with his archaic GB system)? I can see the appeal of that. But it does feel awfully redundant.
However, for my own part, I sort of wish this was going to be uniform row3 like the original Symbiosis. I would want this for my 60% board, and I find uniform profiles to just work better on small keyboards for some reason.
In addition, I'd like to see a kit that offers all the oddball keys (in their unconventional sizes) from the original Space Cadet keyboard, like all the 2u keys that go across the top. The reason for this is that I'd like to someday explore the idea of a GB for a custom PCB/plate/case that replicates the Space Cadet, and it would need matching keycaps to go with it. Introducing a fourth Space Cadet keycap set (in either SA or DSS) would really put this hobby under Space Cadet fatigue, I think, which would be a shame.
It's understandable if those who already have the R6 space-cadet theme keysets, feel it unattractive and take it as the redundant way to get what exists already in R6. But the initial idea of Symbiosis R2 is to create a keyset close to what's on the space-cadet keyboard for modern keyboards, with sculpted profile like it, its symbols(front printing including). If it fails to do so, for example, the front printing might be too pricy, then maybe it's time to consider another option, such as making it all R3. Or, just cancel it totally.
About the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Wed, 28 February 2018, 21:56:15
About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?
With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!
Post by: ihalatch on Wed, 28 February 2018, 21:58:16
About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?
With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!
+1
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 February 2018, 22:13:17
Oh good, I was starting to get worried I would have to resort to GMK for a set of space cadet legends. these are properly centered, too! Support for the Hyper7 would make this perfect.
GMK is a great profile and I like oblotzky's work on GMK space-cadet. You could buy both! :p
Post by: lanyusea on Wed, 28 February 2018, 22:43:08
Oh good, I was starting to get worried I would have to resort to GMK for a set of space cadet legends. these are properly centered, too! Support for the Hyper7 would make this perfect.
GMK is a great profile and I like oblotzky's work on GMK space-cadet. You could buy both! :p
hmm will buy both.
Thanks for your work! :p
Post by: Thereminz on Thu, 01 March 2018, 00:32:58
suggestion: option for all mods to be white on blue or a white on blue lower mods pack
imo the black on blue doesn't look great, i know that's how it is on the orig but i think all white on blue might be cool.
maybe some other novelties like the triangle, circle, and square you see on other symbolics keyboards in various size keys.
Post by: ihalatch on Thu, 01 March 2018, 00:45:45
Post by: online on Thu, 01 March 2018, 01:17:59
I'd like to suggest including spacebar/keys set to support split spacebar keyboards. Maybe blanks set as well.
And thanks for including Minila set, I'm a big fan of Minila layout!!
Post by: BlackInk on Thu, 01 March 2018, 01:27:35
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Thu, 01 March 2018, 01:53:33
About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?
With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!
Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: mustcode on Thu, 01 March 2018, 02:26:48
Post by: The_judge_168 on Thu, 01 March 2018, 02:41:41
Post by: ruhe on Thu, 01 March 2018, 06:09:26
Post by: salasource on Thu, 01 March 2018, 06:59:47
If the font color is same for all mods then R3 1.25U FN is not needed because you can fill this spot out with some other keys from bottom row, if you don't like to use R3 1.25U TAB.
Post by: cfiggis on Thu, 01 March 2018, 12:31:40
About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?
With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!
Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was confused reading that part of the thread, but I'm relatively new to this sort of thing. Could someone explain this? The Hyper7 seems like the perfect board to match these keys, and it already seems like several people in this thread would be interested in a keyset for it. So why wouldn't it be worth investigating this option?
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Thu, 01 March 2018, 13:02:38
About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?
With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!
Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was confused reading that part of the thread, but I'm relatively new to this sort of thing. Could someone explain this? The Hyper7 seems like the perfect board to match these keys, and it already seems like several people in this thread would be interested in a keyset for it. So why wouldn't it be worth investigating this option?
I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: UsualSuspectXXX on Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:20:17
About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?
With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!
Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's unfortunate.
Post by: ArdentHandsaw on Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:22:07
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 01 March 2018, 15:28:31
Given SP's lead time and 7bit's track record, this set should slot in nicely about a year after GMK Space Cadet and four years before R7 starts to ship.
SP's lead time is under 6 months now for SA
and what are you on about 7bit? he's not even in this one
Post by: unmuscular_michael on Thu, 01 March 2018, 15:33:58
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 01 March 2018, 16:27:55
Post by: xondat on Thu, 01 March 2018, 16:30:37
I'm interested. Love that symbolics color scheme, especially with sphericals, centered legends, and vertical placement of alternates (not a jab at the GMK project).
We should have offset on SA and centered on GMK honestly. That'll confuse some future enthusiasts.
Post by: nuclear_wizard on Thu, 01 March 2018, 16:55:40
I'm another vote to reconsider Hyper7 support.
Post by: Lepidus on Thu, 01 March 2018, 17:12:55
(https://i.imgur.com/hY1Fjr8.jpg)
Post by: cfiggis on Thu, 01 March 2018, 17:26:42
I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry, I understood that he said no. I was trying to understand his reason why he said no. It sounded like it was because he didn't want to step on the toes of someone involved with the Hyper7, but it sounds like that's you, and you weren't opposed. Anyway, that's all. Hopefully we can convince him to change his mind. I think this could be a pretty popular combo.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 01 March 2018, 17:34:15
I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry, I understood that he said no. I was trying to understand his reason why he said no. It sounded like it was because he didn't want to step on the toes of someone involved with the Hyper7, but it sounds like that's you, and you weren't opposed. Anyway, that's all. Hopefully we can convince him to change his mind. I think this could be a pretty popular combo.
7bit made the Hyper7 extension based off the original boards, so it's 7bit's creation. Jon simply made a build around 7bit's Hyper7.
I think OP wants to do stuff based off the original boards solely.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 01 March 2018, 17:41:09
I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry, I understood that he said no. I was trying to understand his reason why he said no. It sounded like it was because he didn't want to step on the toes of someone involved with the Hyper7, but it sounds like that's you, and you weren't opposed. Anyway, that's all. Hopefully we can convince him to change his mind. I think this could be a pretty popular combo.
7bit made the Hyper7 extension based off the original boards, so it's 7bit's creation. Jon simply made a build around 7bit's Hyper7.
I think OP wants to do stuff based off the original boards solely.
i got the same vibe
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 01 March 2018, 19:03:42
So, are you making the legends smaller, like symbiosis, or bigger like 7bit SC? Personally, I prefer the bigger font.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hY1Fjr8.jpg)
I prefer the bigger and bolder font as well--it looks more like the original Space Cadet keyboard. Are we limited to whatever molds SP has leftover from the first run, or are new molds being produced for this run?
Post by: zslane on Thu, 01 March 2018, 19:34:36
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 01 March 2018, 19:45:25
You'd have to get 7bit's permission to use 7bit's legend molds.
he's been pretty generous with them in the past, calm depths uses them
Post by: zslane on Thu, 01 March 2018, 19:53:36
However, given his open disdain for Symbiosis, this project might face a bit of resistance. But I hope he says yes.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 01 March 2018, 20:06:14
That's very encouraging.
However, given his open disdain for Symbiosis, this project might face a bit of resistance. But I hope he says yes.
we'll see
Post by: Techno Trousers on Thu, 01 March 2018, 20:27:48
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 02 March 2018, 06:59:27
The spacebars kit and spacekeys kit are added. Please let me know if you guys have any further idea on them.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 02 March 2018, 07:39:42
About the the oddball keys, it seems fine as along as they are from the original space-cadet keyboard. Do you think there is enough interest to replicate the space-cadet keyboard exactly?
With Hyper 7 possibly running, I think that's the most attractive aspect of Symbiosis R2. And the timing is perfect!
Sadly hhkbp2 has declined my request to get a hyper 7 keyset included within this run
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was confused reading that part of the thread, but I'm relatively new to this sort of thing. Could someone explain this? The Hyper7 seems like the perfect board to match these keys, and it already seems like several people in this thread would be interested in a keyset for it. So why wouldn't it be worth investigating this option?
I’d like to collaborate with OP to at least get a kit into his IC but he has said no, so I need to respect his decision.
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Hyper7 is an impressed setup which is in old-school style, with so many keys. And it's easy to tell you guys have so much love and passion for it. Thank you for telling me so much infos so that I got to know it. As I talked to Jon_Flynn about it before, the reason that I said no for adding it to the Symbiosis R2 was because it's a layout created by 7bit in R6. It's not from the original space-cadet keyboard, which is off the design of Symbiosis R2. It would cross the line if Symbiosis R2 tries to replace 7bit by providing what's particular in R6. It just "feel awfully redundant" (quoting zslane) if Symbiosis R2 is just a complementary way to get what's provided by 7bit already. It's odd to imagine that there is a "7bit" key in the Symbiosis R2 if Hyper7 kit is added.
Regarding to asking permission from 7bit, I think it's much easier to ask 7bit to provide Hyper7 layout directly to guys, rather than to ask him to give the permission to the seem-to-be competitive Symbiosis GB. Does this sound reasonable?
On the other hand, if there is enough interest to replicate the original space-cadet keyboard, like zslane mentioned before, it would be a new area that Symbiosis R2 might kick in. I'm not sure how you Hyper7 fans would like that. It would not cover the whole Hyper7 layout if a space-cadet layout kit is added.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 02 March 2018, 08:40:07
Post by: Oblotzky on Fri, 02 March 2018, 08:44:27
AFAIK he allowed a re-run of R6 novelties (lotus, runner, hashbang etc) in China.
Post by: cijanzen on Fri, 02 March 2018, 09:31:57
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 02 March 2018, 10:36:59
I spoke with 7bit once about borrowing molds. The only condition was that it's a private group buy, via forum or other means. No vendor, especially not Massdrop. Doubt his mind has changed on that.That's fantastic news. I'd dub such a "best of both worlds" set 7biosis!
AFAIK he allowed a re-run of R6 novelties (lotus, runner, hashbang etc) in China.
Post by: Oblotzky on Fri, 02 March 2018, 10:53:54
I spoke with 7bit once about borrowing molds. The only condition was that it's a private group buy, via forum or other means. No vendor, especially not Massdrop. Doubt his mind has changed on that.That's fantastic news. I'd dub such a "best of both worlds" set 7biosis!
AFAIK he allowed a re-run of R6 novelties (lotus, runner, hashbang etc) in China.
Well with the amount of kits OP has going on, I don't see a buy without a vendor happening...
Post by: Techno Trousers on Fri, 02 March 2018, 11:50:47
Darn. I guess we'll have to wait for him to answer this one.
Well with the amount of kits OP has going on, I don't see a buy without a vendor happening...
Post by: zslane on Fri, 02 March 2018, 11:54:08
Regarding to asking permission from 7bit, I think it's much easier to ask 7bit to provide Hyper7 layout directly to guys, rather than to ask him to give the permission to the seem-to-be competitive Symbiosis GB. Does this sound reasonable?
7bit only had a handful of Hyper7 keycap sets made, and they are pretty much gone. Running all new keycaps is really the only option.
Post by: redsoap2 on Fri, 02 March 2018, 15:19:21
Post by: nightdriver on Fri, 02 March 2018, 15:43:36
Post by: schmoktopus on Fri, 02 March 2018, 16:24:47
Quote
7bit only had a handful of Hyper7 keycap sets made, and they are pretty much gone. Running all new keycaps is really the only option.
From what I have heard, there are only 4 to 5 Hyper7 sets in existence. So yeah, it really is impossible to obtain them.
Post by: bun on Fri, 02 March 2018, 17:18:11
This could be good for those with a roadkit or any other macro pad looking for a set of 16 macro keys to match their full keyboard layout (like me :D).
Also, definitely interested (nice to see those vim keys in there).
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 02 March 2018, 21:10:21
nice
suggestion: option for all mods to be white on blue or a white on blue lower mods pack
imo the black on blue doesn't look great, i know that's how it is on the orig but i think all white on blue might be cool.
maybe some other novelties like the triangle, circle, and square you see on other symbolics keyboards in various size keys.
Black on blue first 2 rows mods is the only way it should be done.
Black on blue looks nice in the original space-cadet keyboard and Symbiosis R1. It should be the default config on the Modifiers kit, considering we would try to emulate the space-cadet keyboard. About adding a white on blue kit for those modifiers key, is it enough to just add them just for Modifiers kit? How about Extension kit, 40s kit and the other kits then? Its concerns me that if too many kits are added to the existing so many kits, it would explode.
Thereminz: Regarding to some other novelties that you mentioned, do you have any specific idea about what novelties you would like to get, with what shapes for icons and what sizes and profiles? Some Symbolics keyboards have 2u triangle, circle, and square on the top, but 2u R1 doesn't seem to be a good combination for novelties. Let us know if you have any further idea.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 02 March 2018, 21:26:09
So, are you making the legends smaller, like symbiosis, or bigger like 7bit SC? Personally, I prefer the bigger font.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hY1Fjr8.jpg)
Good observation. I did not ever notice this. Are you sure it's not caused by the angle and distance taking these photos? Could anyone who have both sets in hands confirm this font size difference?
Post by: ihalatch on Fri, 02 March 2018, 21:46:34
nice
suggestion: option for all mods to be white on blue or a white on blue lower mods pack
imo the black on blue doesn't look great, i know that's how it is on the orig but i think all white on blue might be cool.
maybe some other novelties like the triangle, circle, and square you see on other symbolics keyboards in various size keys.Black on blue first 2 rows mods is the only way it should be done.
Black on blue looks nice in the original space-cadet keyboard and Symbiosis R1. It should be the default config on the Modifiers kit, considering we would try to emulate the space-cadet keyboard. About adding a white on blue kit for those modifiers key, is it enough to just add them just for Modifiers kit? How about Extension kit, 40s kit and the other kits then? Its concerns me that if too many kits are added to the existing so many kits, it would explode.
Thereminz: Regarding to some other novelties that you mentioned, do you have any specific idea about what novelties you would like to get, with what shapes for icons and what sizes and profiles? Some Symbolics keyboards have 2u triangle, circle, and square on the top, but 2u R1 doesn't seem to be a good combination for novelties. Let us know if you have any further idea.
If I were you I'd add them only for the basic modifiers. Too many of them it will drive the price through the roof.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 02 March 2018, 22:23:13
Quote7bit only had a handful of Hyper7 keycap sets made, and they are pretty much gone. Running all new keycaps is really the only option.
From what I have heard, there are only 4 to 5 Hyper7 sets in existence. So yeah, it really is impossible to obtain them.
That doesn't mean Symbiosis R2 is the right place or best chance to run the Hyper7 keycaps. I'm not familiar with 7bit's GB. If you guys want to get 7bit's creation, and what's already provided in his GB, is it the easiest and simplest way just ask 7bit to run that?
IMO It's not wise to make Symbiosis R2 become a redundant way to get 7bit's creation. It just doesn't feel right even if 7bit bountifully says "Yes, you get my permission to produce everything without any condition".
Post by: pomk on Sat, 03 March 2018, 05:14:45
7bit did make a completely new set of molds for r6. The symbiosis molds that you currently have access to are r3 only. So unless you get permission from 7bit, you will have to somehow finance 20 or so new molds for this, or be faithful to the original and go with r3 only.So, are you making the legends smaller, like symbiosis, or bigger like 7bit SC? Personally, I prefer the bigger font.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hY1Fjr8.jpg)
Good observation. I did not ever notice this. Are you sure it's not caused by the angle and distance taking these photos? Could anyone who have both sets in hands confirm this font size difference?
Post by: zslane on Sat, 03 March 2018, 10:40:05
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 03 March 2018, 23:52:18
That's correct. 7bit's Round 6 legends are larger than Symbiosis legends. And not just for the alphas.
Does this mean that the font size of R6 keycaps(e.g. Modifiers keys) is different than any other keyset? If you mix a Dasher "Tab" keycap on other R6 modifiers keys, is there an issue with the font size difference?
Post by: equalunique on Sat, 03 March 2018, 23:59:51
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 00:03:39
But what is going on with the "up" pointing hand in the hands kit? Not a fan of it being a separate color.
The photos for Hands kit and Roman kit is updated. The previous photo is just a screenshot of KLE layout, where it used the pointing hand for "up". It should be fine now since it uses a vectorized icon.
Do you mean you prefer the white color for all keycaps in arrow cluster?
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 00:12:27
If I were you I'd add them only for the basic modifiers. Too many of them it will drive the price through the roof.
Not sure how they would like it with only basic modifiers. Need more feedbacks for this issue before actually adding them. I guess we could delay adding them, and see whether more requests will come up.
Post by: nuclear_wizard on Sun, 04 March 2018, 00:17:45
Yes, it doesn't make sense to me why the up hand is yellow instead of white like the othersBut what is going on with the "up" pointing hand in the hands kit? Not a fan of it being a separate color.
The photos for Hands kit and Roman kit is updated. The previous photo is just a screenshot of KLE layout, where it used the pointing hand for "up". It should be fine now since it uses a vectorized icon.
Do you mean you prefer the white color for all keycaps in arrow cluster?
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Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 00:25:42
Yes, it doesn't make sense to me why the up hand is yellow instead of white like the othersBut what is going on with the "up" pointing hand in the hands kit? Not a fan of it being a separate color.
The photos for Hands kit and Roman kit is updated. The previous photo is just a screenshot of KLE layout, where it used the pointing hand for "up". It should be fine now since it uses a vectorized icon.
Do you mean you prefer the white color for all keycaps in arrow cluster?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Aha, Got it. It should be fine now. Please tell us if you have any further idea for them.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 00:39:06
I'm definitely interested in buying this -- especially that ErgoDox kit! I love that it has non-specific legends that are based on the theme of the set and not just blank keys.
Me too. I prefer to an Ergodox kit with legends, even though I do touch typing all the time. Those legends on this Ergodox kits are sforms and functions commonly used by Lisp Programmers, which make it one of my favorite kits in this IC.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 04:52:12
Need help to identify the space-cadet keyboard front-printed symbols (https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/need-help-to-identify-the-space-cadet-keyboard-front-printed-symbols-t18361.html)
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Sun, 04 March 2018, 06:25:29
That's correct. 7bit's Round 6 legends are larger than Symbiosis legends. And not just for the alphas.
Does this mean that the font size of R6 keycaps(e.g. Modifiers keys) is different than any other keyset? If you mix a Dasher "Tab" keycap on other R6 modifiers keys, is there an issue with the font size difference?
I've got both Symbiosis in Row 3 from the original GB and the space cadet set from R6 and the Hyper 7 set. The Symbiosis moulds for R3 do have smaller legends. These are smaller than standard SA legends as well. The R6 and Hyper 7 kits have larger legends - but even here the main letter is still smaller than a standard SA kit like dasher etc. This is due to the moulds being custom.
Additionally - the moulds for Symbiosis are only for Row 3 keys as far as I know, whereas 7bit has the ones for a sculpted set.
Finally, on H7 sets I've PM'd 7bit to ask if it will be in his R7 GB or if he could do another run, or if I could use his moulds to do so.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 04 March 2018, 08:07:05
That's correct. 7bit's Round 6 legends are larger than Symbiosis legends. And not just for the alphas.
Does this mean that the font size of R6 keycaps(e.g. Modifiers keys) is different than any other keyset? If you mix a Dasher "Tab" keycap on other R6 modifiers keys, is there an issue with the font size difference?
I've got both Symbiosis in Row 3 from the original GB and the space cadet set from R6 and the Hyper 7 set. The Symbiosis moulds for R3 do have smaller legends. These are smaller than standard SA legends as well. The R6 and Hyper 7 kits have larger legends - but even here the main letter is still smaller than a standard SA kit like dasher etc. This is due to the moulds being custom.
Additionally - the moulds for Symbiosis are only for Row 3 keys as far as I know, whereas 7bit has the ones for a sculpted set.
Finally, on H7 sets I've PM'd 7bit to ask if it will be in his R7 GB or if he could do another run, or if I could use his moulds to do so.
Thanks for the info. Yes, the Symbiosis R1 is flat in all R3 no doubt. It's the initial thought in my mind to create new molds for Symbiosis R2 alphas if it becomes sculpted. I guess I could try my luck to ask 7bit for permission. I don't have a R6 keyset. It's a mistake I didn't notice there is a font size difference. A friend did do a comparison about the font size of the function area in R6 and Dasher this afternoon, it showed that the font size of F1~F12 in R6 is noticeable bigger than those corresponding ones on Dasher. It concerns me if the superior R6 molds are used for the alphas kit for aesthetics reason, to make font size consistent, then other kits on function areas would need R6 molds.
For the Hyper7, good luck with that shortcut asking, and let us know how it goes. Hope it will work fine without the necessity to take any long road, e.g., blank 2u keycaps.
Post by: zslane on Sun, 04 March 2018, 11:53:32
7bit re-did nearly all the legends for Round 6 Space Cadet, and they are a tiny bit "bolder" than SP's standard legends for SA. You can mix and match them with keys from other sets but you will notice a small difference in the line weight of the legends. And, of course, the F-row keys all have bigger legends than normal, which makes them more readable I suppose, but also makes them difficult to match up with keycaps from other SA sets.
Post by: oldcat on Sun, 04 March 2018, 16:37:20
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 03:34:45
Interested, where will this GB run?
Thanks for the support. The time and place are not certain yet. They depend on how much interest and how it works out with the options like kits, price, etc. It takes time to figure out.
Post by: Haaaaaandrew on Mon, 05 March 2018, 12:33:51
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 20:52:40
Massdrop Poll for SA Symbiosis R2 (https://www.massdrop.com/vote/-IC-SA-Symbiosis-R2)
Please vote the corresponding options under the cases:
- Flat(all R3): If you prefer to a flat version(all R3), or you prefer to a sculpted one but still will buy it if it's flat, make sure you vote it
- Sculpted: If you perfer to a sculpted version, vote it.
- Prefer to Symbolic Modifiers and Extension: Only vote this if you perfer to Symbolic Modifiers and Extension kit if only one combo of Modifiers and Extension kit is available
- Options of Kits: Vim, Ergodox, Planck, 40s, Minila, Spacekeys. Make sure you vote the corresponding kit option if you want it to happen
Since the Massdrop vote system only allow three options at most. If you want to vote for options more than 3, you could vote the options you want to most, and leave a comment here or in the discussion zone of this poll for the options or kits you want to support.
Thank you for your support!
Post by: LightningXI on Mon, 05 March 2018, 21:39:52
A poll is set up for interest check. Please vote here if you want to support this project.
Massdrop Poll for SA Symbiosis R2
Please vote the corresponding options under the cases:
- Flat(all R3): If you prefer to a flat version(all R3), or you prefer to a sculpted one but still will buy it if it's flat, make sure you vote it
- Sculpted: If you perfer to a sculpted version, vote it.
- Prefer to Symbolic Modifiers and Extension: Only vote this if you perfer to Symbolic Modifiers and Extension kit if only one combo of Modifiers and Extension kit is available
- Options of Kits: Vim, Ergodox, Planck, 40s, Minila, Spacekeys. Make sure you vote the corresponding kit option if you want it to happen
Since the Massdrop vote system only allow three options at most. If you want to vote for options more than 3, you could vote the options you want to most, and leave a comment here or in the discussion zone of this poll for the options or kits you want to support.
Thank you for your support!
I think the URL for the poll was not inserted.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 21:43:07
I think the URL for the poll was not inserted.
Fixed. Thanks!
Post by: Cygnoos on Mon, 05 March 2018, 22:21:33
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 05 March 2018, 22:46:19
If this becomes a thing I will 100% join for most of the sets. Also, this is relatively minor, but will you have "TOP" printed on the front of the greek key like on the original space cadet?
I guess you meant "FRONT" on the front of the "GREEK" key. It should not cost much to add this since most front printing symbols happen in the alphas area. IMO it could be added if the front printing works out. The main issue of front printing is the price, which depends so much on the sold number in this case.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 05:53:08
The Massdrop poll shows there is no much interest on this keyset. In this case, a GB with so many kits will not happen. And because I could not get permission from 7bit to use the R6 molds for the alphas, it seems impossible to make it sculpted. It is the last option we have to run a replicate set of Symbiosis R1, in all R3. I'm thinking about taking the last chance to put up a small GB for it. It would be simply just one big kit with 104, WKL and a few novelties keycaps, in all R3 just like Symbiosis R1. As we know from the poll many of you prefer to a sculpted version, but it's not gonna happen under such circumstance. Sorry to let you down. And thank you all for all your help and support.
Post by: lanyusea on Mon, 12 March 2018, 06:11:11
Update:
The Massdrop poll shows there is no much interest on this keyset. In this case, a GB with so many kits will not happen. And because I could not get permission from 7bit to use the R6 molds for the alphas, it seems impossible to make it sculpted. It is the last option we have to run a replicate set of Symbiosis R1, in all R3. I'm thinking about taking the last chance to put up a small GB for it. It would be simply just one big kit with 104, WKL and a few novelties keycaps, in all R3 just like Symbiosis R1. As we know from the poll many of you prefer to a sculpted version, but it's not gonna happen under such circumstance. Sorry to let you down. And thank you all for all your help and support.
personally, I think the problem is "not many interested people know there is a poll on Massdrop" instead of "they are not interested"
Post by: objex on Mon, 12 March 2018, 06:58:13
personally, I think the problem is "not many interested people know there is a poll on Massdrop" instead of "they are not interested"
That was true for me. I don't come on gh often and didn't know this IC or the poll existed yet. I am very interested in this set.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 07:52:40
personally, I think the problem is "not many interested people know there is a poll on Massdrop" instead of "they are not interested"
That blame is on me if that's the case. I didn't make advertisement all over other places such as reddit or have the resource to make fancy renders for now, etc. But there are numbers: two weeks since this thread starts, 5000 more views of this topic, around 100 comment in this thread saying they were interested and one week since the poll starts, 100 more votes. These numbers look to me that they tell a story that just a few are interested.
Post by: lanyusea on Mon, 12 March 2018, 07:55:40
personally, I think the problem is "not many interested people know there is a poll on Massdrop" instead of "they are not interested"
That blame is on me if that's the case. I didn't make advertisement all over other places such as reddit or have the resource to make fancy renders for now, etc. But there are numbers: two weeks since this thread starts, 5000 more views of this topic, around 100 comment in this thread saying they were interested and one week since the poll starts, 100 more votes. These numbers look to me that they tell a story that just a few are interested.
The promotion of this kit may be enough, but not for the MD vote.
Let's do this together ;)
Post by: zslane on Mon, 12 March 2018, 12:02:41
Post by: clik_clak on Mon, 12 March 2018, 13:20:47
Post by: a_ak57 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 14:07:30
personally, I think the problem is "not many interested people know there is a poll on Massdrop" instead of "they are not interested"
That blame is on me if that's the case. I didn't make advertisement all over other places such as reddit or have the resource to make fancy renders for now, etc. But there are numbers: two weeks since this thread starts, 5000 more views of this topic, around 100 comment in this thread saying they were interested and one week since the poll starts, 100 more votes. These numbers look to me that they tell a story that just a few are interested.
Unfortunately I don't think your view goals are gonna go super well for this topic, I completely forgot it existed after they moved it to this subforum (until just now when I went to look for the SA carbon thread), and I highly doubt I'm the only one.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 21:11:16
Is there any way to create a kit to fill the Hyper R7 board? Trying to figure out which kits I'd need to buy to fill that board is giving me a headache.
We have talked about Hyper7 previously. Hyper7 is a layout particularly created by 7bit. It will not happen without his permission, not as a part of Symbiosis R2. Usually you could grasp some blank keycaps from PMK to fill the board, if it's acceptable for a blank layout rather than the exact Hyper7 layout with all its legends.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 21:33:10
Unfortunately I don't think your view goals are gonna go super well for this topic, I completely forgot it existed after they moved it to this subforum (until just now when I went to look for the SA carbon thread), and I highly doubt I'm the only one.
It's moved to this subforum by the admin because a poll in Massdrop was set up. And we still need that poll even though it doesn't give the precise number about what we try to figure out.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 12 March 2018, 23:38:00
While it's true that I generally prefer fully sculptured SA, I'm totally okay with a second round of Symbiosis being all row3 (again). In fact, I voted for uniform row3 on the MD poll. I want it for my smaller keyboards, and I like uniform row3 on those.
I heard your request from earlier comment of this thread. And there are dozens of people in the same boat for a flat version, as we could see in the poll. I'm thinking put together a small GB about it recently. Probably it's just one kit like:
[attachimg=1]
I'm gonna finalize the kit and price, etc. If anyone need just a few additional keycap, please raise the request and I would see what I could do.
Post by: lanyusea on Mon, 12 March 2018, 23:49:30
While it's true that I generally prefer fully sculptured SA, I'm totally okay with a second round of Symbiosis being all row3 (again). In fact, I voted for uniform row3 on the MD poll. I want it for my smaller keyboards, and I like uniform row3 on those.
I heard your request from earlier comment of this thread. And there are dozens of people in the same boat for a flat version, as we could see in the poll. I'm thinking put together a small GB about it recently. Probably it's just one kit like:
(Attachment Link)
I'm gonna finalize the kit and price, etc. If anyone need just a few additional keycap, please raise the request and I would see what I could do.
what about waiting until the end of March before kit frozen, there are still many people interested in this kit and I just informed them yesterday
Post by: zslane on Tue, 13 March 2018, 00:52:27
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 13 March 2018, 00:57:20
what about waiting until the end of March before kit frozen, there are still many people interested in this kit and I just informed them yesterday
Thank you for all your help! It does take time to warm thing up. The vote would increase no doubt if we wait much longer. But seeing from what happened in the past, it seems still too far away from what we need for a big GB(to lower the price) with many kits. Since there are so many public, popular big GBs coming later along this year, I prefer to running a small GB(with a reasonable price) which satisfies the requirement of a flat version soon. The poll still makes sense to collect interest. If there is enough interest in the future, maybe we could still have a big GB for the sculpted version, but it just will not happen that soon.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 13 March 2018, 01:02:44
Why are there yellow and purple keycaps?
Most of these yellow and purple keycaps are novelties keycaps for Lisp Machine theme. And the yellow "wasd" are from the game kit of R1, which are required by a bunch of potential buyers I managed to gather. A few yellow keycaps look nice on the blue/grey keyset.
Post by: beekey on Tue, 13 March 2018, 11:37:57
Any chance to add some blanks? I use split space layouts and would love a 2.25 and 2.75 blank.
Without these I will skip. But as this is a niche layout I understand not covering it.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 13 March 2018, 12:26:15
I like R3. 2-3-3-3-3 would also be nice, as I sae for the Pulse Mitolet kit.
Any chance to add some blanks? I use split space layouts and would love a 2.25 and 2.75 blank.
Without these I will skip. But as this is a niche layout I understand not covering it.
I'm afraid it will not include blank keycaps as it's just a one minimized kit to cover some usual layouts. In general, if there is enough interest(MOQ 25 for SP SA) for a special layout, e.g. minila, split spacebar, another kit could be added.
Post by: mrkevint on Tue, 13 March 2018, 15:11:21
Post by: punksinatra on Tue, 13 March 2018, 15:39:09
Post by: punksinatra on Tue, 13 March 2018, 15:42:49
While it's true that I generally prefer fully sculptured SA, I'm totally okay with a second round of Symbiosis being all row3 (again). In fact, I voted for uniform row3 on the MD poll. I want it for my smaller keyboards, and I like uniform row3 on those.
I heard your request from earlier comment of this thread. And there are dozens of people in the same boat for a flat version, as we could see in the poll. I'm thinking put together a small GB about it recently. Probably it's just one kit like:
(Attachment Link)
I'm gonna finalize the kit and price, etc. If anyone need just a few additional keycap, please raise the request and I would see what I could do.
I think this will work for most people since it is uniform R3 there won't be too much issues with compatibility.
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Tue, 13 March 2018, 16:15:30
Post by: packman86 on Wed, 14 March 2018, 09:13:23
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 14 March 2018, 09:42:49
I'm interested in this set! Even if it ends up being a smaller GB with a R3 set :thumb:
Voted for uniform R3 just like the first round :thumb:
I was more hyped by the idea of a sculpted set but I'd be down for all row 3 as well, especially if it lowers the price per kit a bit.
A small GB will be put together in a few days, for an all-in-one R3 kit(showed in #119). Please wait for the update. Thank you for your support!
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 14 March 2018, 10:00:21
Is there no way to run this set like MiTo did with Godspeed? Sculpted version as well as the "budget" R3 TKL kit?
It's the initial idea to run the sculpted version only, but there is interest issue. So maybe we could adjust the plan to run a small GB for all R3 version first. It will be ideal to do a big GB like Godspeed selling thousands of kits. Sometimes things are not so ideal in reality. Stay tuned. If there is enough interest, eventually it will happen sometime somewhere.
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Wed, 14 March 2018, 10:10:52
Is it going to be ran by a vendor or by you? And if its going to be a smaller buy what kits if any are going to be nixed?Is there no way to run this set like MiTo did with Godspeed? Sculpted version as well as the "budget" R3 TKL kit?
It's the initial idea to run the sculpted version only, but there is interest issue. So maybe we could adjust the plan to run a small GB for all R3 version first. It will be ideal to do a big GB like Godspeed selling thousands of kits. Sometimes things are not so ideal in reality. Stay tuned. If there is enough interest, eventually it will happen sometime somewhere.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 14 March 2018, 10:28:07
Is it going to be ran by a vendor or by you? And if its going to be a smaller buy what kits if any are going to be nixed?Is there no way to run this set like MiTo did with Godspeed? Sculpted version as well as the "budget" R3 TKL kit?
It's the initial idea to run the sculpted version only, but there is interest issue. So maybe we could adjust the plan to run a small GB for all R3 version first. It will be ideal to do a big GB like Godspeed selling thousands of kits. Sometimes things are not so ideal in reality. Stay tuned. If there is enough interest, eventually it will happen sometime somewhere.
The flat version layout in the coming small GB was posted already. So I guess you meant the sculpted one, right? It's unknown yet for things like how much interest or how many votes will be there at some time in the future (for example, 6 months later), whether there is a GB, when/where, what kits will be present. It needs to be a big GB for the sculpted one to come true, and according to situation for now, it's going to be a long shot if possible.
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Wed, 14 March 2018, 10:47:53
I see, that's a damn shame. All row three for me it seems. Might be a good idea to message the mods to see if you can get moved back to the IC thread so people know that this is happening somewhere else.Is there no way to run this set like MiTo did with Godspeed? Sculpted version as well as the "budget" R3 TKL kit?
It's the initial idea to run the sculpted version only, but there is interest issue. So maybe we could adjust the plan to run a small GB for all R3 version first. It will be ideal to do a big GB like Godspeed selling thousands of kits. Sometimes things are not so ideal in reality. Stay tuned. If there is enough interest, eventually it will happen sometime somewhere.
Is it going to be ran by a vendor or by you? And if its going to be a smaller buy what kits if any are going to be nixed?
The flat version layout in the coming small GB was posted already. So I guess you meant the sculpted one, right? It's unknown yet for things like how much interest or how many votes will be there at some time in the future (for example, 6 months later), whether there is a GB, when/where, what kits will be present. It needs to be a big GB for the sculpted one to come true, and according to situation for now, it's going to be a long shot if possible.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 14 March 2018, 12:11:45
I see, that's a damn shame. All row three for me it seems. Might be a good idea to message the mods to see if you can get moved back to the IC thread so people know that this is happening somewhere else.
Relax. Take the coming small GB as a chance to make those people who like all R3 happy, even though they're the minority. If we combine everything into one single GB which will happen soon when sculpted version is possible, it will be ideal. But it's also risky neither of them happen at all due to low interest. Seeing from what happened in IC, it will take a long time to collect interest for the sculpted version. So we could play cards in two hands flexibly: a small GB for all R3 with a reasonable price happens soon without much longer wait time, and the IC for sculpted SA space-cadet theme(could be called Symbiosis R3 or SA space cadet maybe) still goes along for a possible long shot. Something happens for sure now, is better than nothing after a long time waiting.
Thanks for the suggestion to message the mods about moving back to the IC subforum. Actually I did send the message soon after this thread was moved to Massdrop subforum by admin about a week ago. I was told that the Massdrop poll needs to be taken out before this thread is moved back to IC subform. We still need the poll, so the thread stays here.
Post by: lanyusea on Wed, 14 March 2018, 12:39:48
I see, that's a damn shame. All row three for me it seems. Might be a good idea to message the mods to see if you can get moved back to the IC thread so people know that this is happening somewhere else.
Relax. Take the coming small GB as a chance to make those people who like all R3 happy, even though they're the minority. If we combine everything into one single GB which will happen soon when sculpted version is possible, it will be ideal. But it's also risky neither of them happen at all due to low interest. Seeing from what happened in IC, it will take a long time to collect interest for the sculpted version. So we could play cards in two hands flexibly: a small GB for all R3 with a reasonable price happens soon without much longer wait time, and the IC for sculpted SA space-cadet theme(could be called Symbiosis R3 or SA space cadet maybe) still goes along for a possible long shot. Something happens for sure now, is better than nothing after a long time waiting.
Thanks for the suggestion to message the mods about moving back to the IC subforum. Actually I did send the message soon after this thread was moved to Massdrop subforum by admin about a week ago. I was told that the Massdrop poll needs to be taken out before this thread is moved back to IC subform. We still need the poll, so the thread stays here.
we have 450 votes now!
almost 500!
Post by: sujikinen on Wed, 14 March 2018, 19:54:20
Post by: lanyusea on Sat, 17 March 2018, 10:50:11
Hope the GH GB page will be online soon :thumb:
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 17 March 2018, 11:35:04
just noticed KP has set up the China proxy for this GB: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c-s.w13608044-14986162198.5.2f356509DlwKED&id=565911392433
Hope the GH GB page will be online soon :thumb:
Thanks for your support. I'm afraid KP has to handle the orders from GH buyers as well. There will be a buying webpage in English for GH buyers. It's expected as a small GB about 50 units or so(and there are many orders from Chinese KB community), and the price is kept low to make this small GB easier to go. So there is no profit to afford another US or EU proxy. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Post by: lanyusea on Sat, 17 March 2018, 12:21:32
just noticed KP has set up the China proxy for this GB: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c-s.w13608044-14986162198.5.2f356509DlwKED&id=565911392433
Hope the GH GB page will be online soon :thumb:
Thanks for your support. I'm afraid KP has to handle the orders from GH buyers as well. There will be a buying webpage in English for GH buyers. It's expected as a small GB about 50 units or so(and there are many orders from Chinese KB community), and the price is kept low to make this small GB easier to go. So there is no profit to afford another US or EU proxy. Sorry for the inconvenience.
hmm.. so maybe ZFrontier is another option to process GB other than MD, since ZF's investor still have money to afford extra custom/proxy fees :pppp
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 17 March 2018, 12:52:30
just noticed KP has set up the China proxy for this GB: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c-s.w13608044-14986162198.5.2f356509DlwKED&id=565911392433
Hope the GH GB page will be online soon :thumb:
Thanks for your support. I'm afraid KP has to handle the orders from GH buyers as well. There will be a buying webpage in English for GH buyers. It's expected as a small GB about 50 units or so(and there are many orders from Chinese KB community), and the price is kept low to make this small GB easier to go. So there is no profit to afford another US or EU proxy. Sorry for the inconvenience.
hmm.. so maybe ZFrontier is another option to process GB other than MD, since ZF's investor still have money to afford extra custom/proxy fees :pppp
Actually I talked to ZFrontier before about the collaboration to run a GB, but it didn't work out. If there is any other person or vendor is suitable and willing to be the proxy for US/EU, for free or a really low fee, a recommendation is appreciated.
Post by: lanyusea on Sat, 17 March 2018, 13:12:13
just noticed KP has set up the China proxy for this GB: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1-c-s.w13608044-14986162198.5.2f356509DlwKED&id=565911392433
Hope the GH GB page will be online soon :thumb:
Thanks for your support. I'm afraid KP has to handle the orders from GH buyers as well. There will be a buying webpage in English for GH buyers. It's expected as a small GB about 50 units or so(and there are many orders from Chinese KB community), and the price is kept low to make this small GB easier to go. So there is no profit to afford another US or EU proxy. Sorry for the inconvenience.
hmm.. so maybe ZFrontier is another option to process GB other than MD, since ZF's investor still have money to afford extra custom/proxy fees :pppp
Actually I talked to ZFrontier before about the collaboration to run a GB, but it didn't work out. If there is any other person or vendor is suitable and willing to be the proxy for US/EU, for free or a really low fee, a recommendation is appreciated.
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
Post by: xyverz on Sat, 17 March 2018, 23:20:18
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 18 March 2018, 01:25:38
If this gets the full Sculpted, with the Colevrak kit built, I'll be in for sure!No full sculpted. It's basically going to be a rerun of the original symbiosis. I'm going to put my faith in 7bit eventually getting around to running this colorway in the round 7 Algol GB.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 18 March 2018, 02:02:27
If this gets the full Sculpted, with the Colevrak kit built, I'll be in for sure!
Thank you for your support. Currently we don't have enough interest to make the sculpted one happen. It's possible if there is enough interest later. Regarding to the sculpted Colevrak kit, it requires many new molds since due to its special legends, it would need plenty of interest to make it happen too.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 18 March 2018, 11:45:01
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
KBDFans is nice to talk to. Since we already got KP in the business for China with a preset price. There will be some problems just to drag them in. It's going to take some time to work out a solution. Hold on.
Post by: zslane on Sun, 18 March 2018, 12:21:00
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 18 March 2018, 12:51:51
So wait, is this a China-only GB?
Of course not. If it's a China-only GB, it would not be necessary to run the IC, vote things at GH at the first place. What we discussed above is that we ran into some trouble when trying to setup a GB page for GH buyers, and tried to find a solution.
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Sun, 18 March 2018, 13:44:25
Post by: lanyusea on Sun, 18 March 2018, 13:57:54
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
KBDFans is nice to talk to. Since we already got KP in the business for China with a preset price. There will be some problems just to drag them in. It's going to take some time to work out a solution. Hold on.
personally, KP is the main reason to drive me away from this GB
KP's international shipping is really worrying:
1. I still not get my GMK Muted yet. I can do nothing but keep waiting.
2. 1/3 of SA Godspeed orders are refunded by MD. I'm totally shocked about this since KP promotes himself as an important official partner of MD with shipping priority: "KP社区团购优势：1、MD核心合作伙伴，享有优先配货发货权。2、更完善和便捷的海运、通关渠道。3、一如既往的信誉保证和品质要求。" <-- funny thing: KP removed this in his latest GB description pages, but you can still find this description in his earlier GB pages.
3. still, many people are posting under his weibo to argue about their order's progress, which should has been shipped out from the vendor months earlier. (just saw someone is asking about when the gmk oblivion will arrive in the post of SA Symbiosis R2 GB infos)
Hope KB can do better since there is no middleman this time.
Wish every joiner can receive their kits in time.
GLWGB
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Sun, 18 March 2018, 14:28:01
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
KBDFans is nice to talk to. Since we already got KP in the business for China with a preset price. There will be some problems just to drag them in. It's going to take some time to work out a solution. Hold on.
personally, KP is the main reason to drive me away from this GB
KP's international shipping is really worrying:
1. I still not get my GMK Muted yet. I can do nothing but keep waiting.
2. 1/3 of SA Godspeed orders are refunded by MD. I'm totally shocked about this since KP promotes himself as an important official partner of MD with shipping priority: "KP社区团购优势：1、MD核心合作伙伴，享有优先配货发货权。2、更完善和便捷的海运、通关渠道。3、一如既往的信誉保证和品质要求。" <-- funny thing: KP removed this in his latest GB description pages, but you can still find this description in his earlier GB pages.
3. still, many people are posting under his weibo to argue about their order's progress, which should has been shipped out from the vendor months earlier. (just saw someone is asking about when the gmk oblivion will arrive in the post of SA Symbiosis R2 GB infos)
Hope KB can do better since there is no middleman this time.
Wish every joiner can receive their kits in time.
GLWGB
This is worrying...
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 18 March 2018, 23:09:25
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
KBDFans is nice to talk to. Since we already got KP in the business for China with a preset price. There will be some problems just to drag them in. It's going to take some time to work out a solution. Hold on.
personally, KP is the main reason to drive me away from this GB
KP's international shipping is really worrying:
1. I still not get my GMK Muted yet. I can do nothing but keep waiting.
2. 1/3 of SA Godspeed orders are refunded by MD. I'm totally shocked about this since KP promotes himself as an important official partner of MD with shipping priority: "KP社区团购优势：1、MD核心合作伙伴，享有优先配货发货权。2、更完善和便捷的海运、通关渠道。3、一如既往的信誉保证和品质要求。" <-- funny thing: KP removed this in his latest GB description pages, but you can still find this description in his earlier GB pages.
3. still, many people are posting under his weibo to argue about their order's progress, which should has been shipped out from the vendor months earlier. (just saw someone is asking about when the gmk oblivion will arrive in the post of SA Symbiosis R2 GB infos)
Hope KB can do better since there is no middleman this time.
Wish every joiner can receive their kits in time.
GLWGB
Yeah, KP doesn't have a good reputation in delivering in time in the past. The issues you mentioned, I know them well myself and I'm one of the victims in the Godspeed refund affair. But it's still a big surprise, that after the GB starts in China two days ago I got SO MANY feedbacks from other buyers saying they would not buy due to KP. I guess the GB lost about a dozen of buyers from Chinese Community already due to this issue. The reason why KP comes up to handle this GB is because only KP is willing to run it as a favor with almost no profit. A vendor usually does business with reasonable profit. Since it's a small GB with not many units, the price for the kit is already high (much higher than normal big GB), and the price would go even higher about 25% if the GB turns to another vendor. In that case, it's hard for the GB to pass MOQ and I don't see it happening. So without KP, we would not even go this far to have a GB at all. But KP's reputation seems to be harmful to the GB. It's a dilemma.
I'm considering canceling this ongoing GB util a solution is figured out, even then I have to abandon KP, who has a warm heart to help this time. And it will let people who're waiting for this GB down.
Post by: lanyusea on Sun, 18 March 2018, 23:13:51
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
KBDFans is nice to talk to. Since we already got KP in the business for China with a preset price. There will be some problems just to drag them in. It's going to take some time to work out a solution. Hold on.
personally, KP is the main reason to drive me away from this GB
KP's international shipping is really worrying:
1. I still not get my GMK Muted yet. I can do nothing but keep waiting.
2. 1/3 of SA Godspeed orders are refunded by MD. I'm totally shocked about this since KP promotes himself as an important official partner of MD with shipping priority: "KP社区团购优势：1、MD核心合作伙伴，享有优先配货发货权。2、更完善和便捷的海运、通关渠道。3、一如既往的信誉保证和品质要求。" <-- funny thing: KP removed this in his latest GB description pages, but you can still find this description in his earlier GB pages.
3. still, many people are posting under his weibo to argue about their order's progress, which should has been shipped out from the vendor months earlier. (just saw someone is asking about when the gmk oblivion will arrive in the post of SA Symbiosis R2 GB infos)
Hope KB can do better since there is no middleman this time.
Wish every joiner can receive their kits in time.
GLWGB
Yeah, KP doesn't have a good reputation in delivering in time in the past. The issues you mentioned, I know them well myself and I'm one of the victims in the Godspeed refund affair. But it's still a big surprise, that after the GB starts in China two days ago I got many feedbacks from other buyers saying they would not buy due to KP. I guess the GB lost about a dozen of buyers from Chinese Community already due to this issue. The reason why KP comes up to handle this GB is because only KP is willing to run it as a favor with almost no profit. A vendor usually does business with reasonable profit. Since it's a small GB with not many units, the price for the kit is already high (much higher than normal big GB), and the price would go even higher about 25% if the GB turns to another vendor. In that case, it's hard for the GB to pass MOQ and I don't see it happening. So without KP, we would not even go this far to have a GB at all. But KP's reputation seems to be harmful to the GB. It's a dilemma.
I'm considering canceling this ongoing GB util a solution is figured out, even then I have to abandon KP, who has a warm heart to help this time. And it will let people who're waiting for this GB down.
wow 25%~
I heard that ********* did things really expensive so some GB runner don't want to work with them, but I really don't know it is such expensive.
25%, ********* is so ****ky I have to say..
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 18 March 2018, 23:24:41
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
KBDFans is nice to talk to. Since we already got KP in the business for China with a preset price. There will be some problems just to drag them in. It's going to take some time to work out a solution. Hold on.
personally, KP is the main reason to drive me away from this GB
KP's international shipping is really worrying:
1. I still not get my GMK Muted yet. I can do nothing but keep waiting.
2. 1/3 of SA Godspeed orders are refunded by MD. I'm totally shocked about this since KP promotes himself as an important official partner of MD with shipping priority: "KP社区团购优势：1、MD核心合作伙伴，享有优先配货发货权。2、更完善和便捷的海运、通关渠道。3、一如既往的信誉保证和品质要求。" <-- funny thing: KP removed this in his latest GB description pages, but you can still find this description in his earlier GB pages.
3. still, many people are posting under his weibo to argue about their order's progress, which should has been shipped out from the vendor months earlier. (just saw someone is asking about when the gmk oblivion will arrive in the post of SA Symbiosis R2 GB infos)
Hope KB can do better since there is no middleman this time.
Wish every joiner can receive their kits in time.
GLWGB
Yeah, KP doesn't have a good reputation in delivering in time in the past. The issues you mentioned, I know them well myself and I'm one of the victims in the Godspeed refund affair. But it's still a big surprise, that after the GB starts in China two days ago I got many feedbacks from other buyers saying they would not buy due to KP. I guess the GB lost about a dozen of buyers from Chinese Community already due to this issue. The reason why KP comes up to handle this GB is because only KP is willing to run it as a favor with almost no profit. A vendor usually does business with reasonable profit. Since it's a small GB with not many units, the price for the kit is already high (much higher than normal big GB), and the price would go even higher about 25% if the GB turns to another vendor. In that case, it's hard for the GB to pass MOQ and I don't see it happening. So without KP, we would not even go this far to have a GB at all. But KP's reputation seems to be harmful to the GB. It's a dilemma.
I'm considering canceling this ongoing GB util a solution is figured out, even then I have to abandon KP, who has a warm heart to help this time. And it will let people who're waiting for this GB down.
wow 25%~
I heard that ********* did things really expensive so some GB runner don't want to work with them, but I really don't know it is such expensive.
25%, ********* is so ****ky I have to say..
It's not a precise number, at least not for all vendors. I just want to give you the brief idea of how expensive it will even be. Don't mean to expose any internal to hurt any vendor. Personally I think it's right for anyone to gain profit if you ask him to do things for you.
Post by: punksinatra on Mon, 19 March 2018, 09:31:13
Post by: beekey on Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:29:52
Post by: Oblotzky on Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:36:25
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
KBDFans is nice to talk to. Since we already got KP in the business for China with a preset price. There will be some problems just to drag them in. It's going to take some time to work out a solution. Hold on.
personally, KP is the main reason to drive me away from this GB
KP's international shipping is really worrying:
1. I still not get my GMK Muted yet. I can do nothing but keep waiting.
2. 1/3 of SA Godspeed orders are refunded by MD. I'm totally shocked about this since KP promotes himself as an important official partner of MD with shipping priority: "KP社区团购优势：1、MD核心合作伙伴，享有优先配货发货权。2、更完善和便捷的海运、通关渠道。3、一如既往的信誉保证和品质要求。" <-- funny thing: KP removed this in his latest GB description pages, but you can still find this description in his earlier GB pages.
3. still, many people are posting under his weibo to argue about their order's progress, which should has been shipped out from the vendor months earlier. (just saw someone is asking about when the gmk oblivion will arrive in the post of SA Symbiosis R2 GB infos)
Hope KB can do better since there is no middleman this time.
Wish every joiner can receive their kits in time.
GLWGB
Yeah, KP doesn't have a good reputation in delivering in time in the past. The issues you mentioned, I know them well myself and I'm one of the victims in the Godspeed refund affair. But it's still a big surprise, that after the GB starts in China two days ago I got many feedbacks from other buyers saying they would not buy due to KP. I guess the GB lost about a dozen of buyers from Chinese Community already due to this issue. The reason why KP comes up to handle this GB is because only KP is willing to run it as a favor with almost no profit. A vendor usually does business with reasonable profit. Since it's a small GB with not many units, the price for the kit is already high (much higher than normal big GB), and the price would go even higher about 25% if the GB turns to another vendor. In that case, it's hard for the GB to pass MOQ and I don't see it happening. So without KP, we would not even go this far to have a GB at all. But KP's reputation seems to be harmful to the GB. It's a dilemma.
I'm considering canceling this ongoing GB util a solution is figured out, even then I have to abandon KP, who has a warm heart to help this time. And it will let people who're waiting for this GB down.
wow 25%~
I heard that ********* did things really expensive so some GB runner don't want to work with them, but I really don't know it is such expensive.
25%, ********* is so ****ky I have to say..
Vendors are not a charity. How do you expect them to run a non-profit and still be able to send you replacement keys if your kit was missing one, or send a whole new set because the package was lost?
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Mon, 19 March 2018, 12:23:27
Post by: zslane on Mon, 19 March 2018, 12:52:26
Post by: lanyusea on Mon, 19 March 2018, 13:19:44
maybe KBDFans? known as 怡科外设 on Taobao.
KBDFans has perfect feedback record in reddit/geekhack, but not sure if they're willing to run GB, since they're always selling their own products.
KBDFans is nice to talk to. Since we already got KP in the business for China with a preset price. There will be some problems just to drag them in. It's going to take some time to work out a solution. Hold on.
personally, KP is the main reason to drive me away from this GB
KP's international shipping is really worrying:
1. I still not get my GMK Muted yet. I can do nothing but keep waiting.
2. 1/3 of SA Godspeed orders are refunded by MD. I'm totally shocked about this since KP promotes himself as an important official partner of MD with shipping priority: "KP社区团购优势：1、MD核心合作伙伴，享有优先配货发货权。2、更完善和便捷的海运、通关渠道。3、一如既往的信誉保证和品质要求。" <-- funny thing: KP removed this in his latest GB description pages, but you can still find this description in his earlier GB pages.
3. still, many people are posting under his weibo to argue about their order's progress, which should has been shipped out from the vendor months earlier. (just saw someone is asking about when the gmk oblivion will arrive in the post of SA Symbiosis R2 GB infos)
Hope KB can do better since there is no middleman this time.
Wish every joiner can receive their kits in time.
GLWGB
Yeah, KP doesn't have a good reputation in delivering in time in the past. The issues you mentioned, I know them well myself and I'm one of the victims in the Godspeed refund affair. But it's still a big surprise, that after the GB starts in China two days ago I got many feedbacks from other buyers saying they would not buy due to KP. I guess the GB lost about a dozen of buyers from Chinese Community already due to this issue. The reason why KP comes up to handle this GB is because only KP is willing to run it as a favor with almost no profit. A vendor usually does business with reasonable profit. Since it's a small GB with not many units, the price for the kit is already high (much higher than normal big GB), and the price would go even higher about 25% if the GB turns to another vendor. In that case, it's hard for the GB to pass MOQ and I don't see it happening. So without KP, we would not even go this far to have a GB at all. But KP's reputation seems to be harmful to the GB. It's a dilemma.
I'm considering canceling this ongoing GB util a solution is figured out, even then I have to abandon KP, who has a warm heart to help this time. And it will let people who're waiting for this GB down.
wow 25%~
I heard that ********* did things really expensive so some GB runner don't want to work with them, but I really don't know it is such expensive.
25%, ********* is so ****ky I have to say..
Vendors are not a charity. How do you expect them to run a non-profit and still be able to send you replacement keys if your kit was missing one, or send a whole new set because the package was lost?
yes but not that much. I know there will be extra fee and I personally treat it as some kind of insurance service, therefore I believe 25% profile can cover a lot other than regular replacement or pkg lost. Otherwise is it normal that 1/4 of the pkgs will run into trouble?
I do really know some vendors or called as GB runners that run GB with no profit. They have their own life and business, do GB just cause of their own interest of the kit. But usually the amount is not much(lower than 100), they will order extra kits for key replacement and thanks to the reliable and fast China logistics system, the kit price is really attractive.
---
It is not wise to just throw out questions but give no suggested answer.
so coming back to this SA Symbiosis R2: if hhkbp2 decided to arrange this GB by himself, I can help him do the pkg receiving and distribution part for free in HongKong.
but the problem is: though hhkbp2 and I know each other years earlier on a programmer forum, I cannot prove that I am more reliable than any people you're talking about in this thread. :rolleyes:
Post by: cfiggis on Mon, 19 March 2018, 16:01:13
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Mon, 19 March 2018, 16:41:40
Hi, I'm pretty new to this, and I'm a bit confused. If I'm in the US and I want to buy this, what page should I be going to where I can read the page in English? Thanks!Keep an eye on this thread for now. It'll likely have a link to the English buy when it goes live.
Post by: cfiggis on Mon, 19 March 2018, 16:45:50
Hi, I'm pretty new to this, and I'm a bit confused. If I'm in the US and I want to buy this, what page should I be going to where I can read the page in English? Thanks!Keep an eye on this thread for now. It'll likely have a link to the English buy when it goes live.
Ah, thanks! I misunderstood and thought it had already started because of the Taobao site being up.
Post by: achilles_other_heel on Mon, 19 March 2018, 18:52:59
Post by: emenelopee on Mon, 19 March 2018, 20:14:47
TLDR: there is a difference in what profit should expected be for something guaranteed (a GB sale) vs something that may not see an ROI or even a loss. This is the same as working for a fixed fee vs. time+material.
Caveat: I have no idea if there is a separate profit % for GBs, but my guess is there may not be judging by the 25% number being thrown around. I am basing my irritation on this assumption.
Post by: dr_derivative on Mon, 19 March 2018, 20:45:01
Many larger vendors run as full time businesses. I'd be surprised if there's much profit left once you take out all of their costs (office space, packaging, web hosting, wages/cost of living, replacements, etc.).
Post by: emenelopee on Mon, 19 March 2018, 21:17:08
25% markup =/= 25% profit
Many larger vendors run as full time businesses. I'd be surprised if there's much profit left once you take out all of their costs (office space, packaging, web hosting, wages/cost of living, replacements, etc.).
I'm assuming all of that is baked in with the "at cost" value. I admit my comparison isn't as robust as I'd like it, but if the change from one fabricator, who was "doing a favour", to one that isn't, it's the best I've got.
Regardless, you're listing the costs to break even. I'm talking about the cream on top which I'm arguing should be different for a GB vs. traditional retail, and which I don't believe is. Again, caveat, speculation.
Post by: SpectreiiI on Mon, 19 March 2018, 22:06:20
Is this just a way to get an SA Space Cadet keycap set into people's hands who missed out on 7bit's Round 6 (or maybe didn't want to deal with his archaic GB system)? I can see the appeal of that. But it does feel awfully redundant.I will be running it in my profile, but it's based on microswitch superelliptical, so it will be (more or less) a true replica set, though a bit lower.
However, for my own part, I sort of wish this was going to be uniform row3 like the original Symbiosis. I would want this for my 60% board, and I find uniform profiles to just work better on small keyboards for some reason.
In addition, I'd like to see a kit that offers all the oddball keys (in their unconventional sizes) from the original Space Cadet keyboard, like all the 2u keys that go across the top. The reason for this is that I'd like to someday explore the idea of a GB for a custom PCB/plate/case that replicates the Space Cadet, and it would need matching keycaps to go with it. Introducing a fourth Space Cadet keycap set (in either SA or DSS) would really put this hobby under Space Cadet fatigue, I think, which would be a shame.
As far as offering another SC set in SA, if the people want to throw money at it...
Post by: Techno Trousers on Mon, 19 March 2018, 22:40:40
I will be running it in my profile, but it's based on microswitch superelliptical, so it will be (more or less) a true replica set, though a bit lower.So the new Novelkeys profile is going to have a SC set? Will that be the first set out of the gate? Exciting.
Post by: donutcat on Mon, 19 March 2018, 22:59:41
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Mon, 19 March 2018, 23:31:22
It'd be one hell of an introduction that's for sure!I will be running it in my profile, but it's based on microswitch superelliptical, so it will be (more or less) a true replica set, though a bit lower.So the new Novelkeys profile is going to have a SC set? Will that be the first set out of the gate? Exciting.
Post by: lanyusea on Mon, 19 March 2018, 23:36:29
My $.02 on the 25% discussion: without details, I don't think we need to be jumping to conclusions. 25% could seem like a lot, but if that's just on top of manufacturer price and before fees of any kinda, that's more than likely covering all fees and costs without much to spare. For example, in a typical GMK GB, you have the conversion from € to $, currrntly 1.235:1, $5 per set average shipping cost from GMK, .93% bank transfer fee, .3463% FedEx import fee, and PayPal's 3-4% fee on top of everything. You'll also want to add about 3-5% buffer to the exchange rate just to account for possible fluctuation during the GB phase(I got caught by that once). While this isn't a GMK GB, it's still pretty easy to see how costs can add up for buys super quick, and this isn't even including shipping supplies cost, which I typically add to shipping costs. So like I mentioned, if they're just saying 25% on top of the base price before fees, that might not be nearly as much profit as you think it could be.
Yes I totally agree.
Just focus on the number itself is not a proper way to discuss, there are many things in the back.
I should be more clear when I try to state my opinion.
I apologize if my words has hurt any GB runners' or vendors' hardworking. It is not my original intention.
I understand the vendor will charge extra fee to handle various expected or unexpected conditions. I understand that various vendors have different prices, it is quite normal. I just wanna think why the charges of different vendors can vary for 25%.
Again, the number here is not really meaningful since we dont know what is behind. So what I throw out is a little meaningless here.
---
I joined the sale of GMK Coniferous, thanks for your work! :thumb:
Post by: fishpod on Tue, 20 March 2018, 00:32:28
The reason I chose them for my previous runs is because they have full time customer service and their shipping options like SF express and DHL are fast AF. Yes, if I did the BOW/WOB myself the price would possibly be lower but as I am not a fulltime GB runner, it would probably take much more time for me to sort things out or handle the shipping and aftersale and these sets may not even happen if they had been run by myself.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 20 March 2018, 01:30:02
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 20 March 2018, 01:37:33
Hi, I'm pretty new to this, and I'm a bit confused. If I'm in the US and I want to buy this, what page should I be going to where I can read the page in English? Thanks!
We did gather a group of buyers from Chinese Community and set up a buying page for them. Since we ran into some trouble to set up the US/EU proxy and the GB page for GH buyers, the link won't come up until a solution is figured out. It's gonna take some time. Really sorry for the confusion and inconvenience.
Post by: ihalatch on Tue, 20 March 2018, 01:39:45
Hi, I'm pretty new to this, and I'm a bit confused. If I'm in the US and I want to buy this, what page should I be going to where I can read the page in English? Thanks!
We did gather a group of buyers from Chinese Community and set up a buying page for them. Since we ran into some trouble to set up the US/EU proxy and the GB page for GH buyers, the link won't come up until a solution is figured out. It's gonna take some time. Really sorry for the confusion and inconvenience.
Australia and NZ proxy?
Post by: beamingrobot on Tue, 20 March 2018, 05:44:30
not sure if beamingrobot from monokei.us charges 25%
Thanks for the mention my dude, I did offer my services for the SEA region but I didn't receive any reply.
Anyway my practice is to cover cost and try to align my prices to the main runner with minimal pricing differences, sometimes to my detriment esp for GBs from conUS/EU :P
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 20 March 2018, 07:35:13
Australia and NZ proxy?
It's a great idea to have many proxies all over the world, but we could not afford them for now. :p
Post by: SpectreiiI on Tue, 20 March 2018, 19:04:35
Nothing official here, but I would like to design sets for several classic boards including Space Cadet, Honeywell, SAIL, British Telecom, Dasher, Selectric, Canon Cat,Skidata, and Dolch. As to if and when any given one of them is to run is still yet to be discussed with mike, but space cadet is a priority for me.I will be running it in my profile, but it's based on microswitch superelliptical, so it will be (more or less) a true replica set, though a bit lower.So the new Novelkeys profile is going to have a SC set? Will that be the first set out of the gate? Exciting.
Post by: briano1905 on Sat, 24 March 2018, 19:16:31
any chance you could add grey modifier set? then im definitely in :thumb:
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 25 March 2018, 01:10:41
i really like this set
any chance you could add grey modifier set? then im definitely in :thumb:
You meant white on grey for the modifiers, like the colors on the alphas area?
Post by: briano1905 on Sun, 25 March 2018, 01:11:53
yesss make it happen!i really like this set
any chance you could add grey modifier set? then im definitely in :thumb:
You meant white on grey for the modifiers, like the colors on the alphas area?
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 25 March 2018, 01:20:53
yesss make it happen!i really like this set
any chance you could add grey modifier set? then im definitely in :thumb:
You meant white on grey for the modifiers, like the colors on the alphas area?
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Let's see whether there are more persons and how many want this all white on grey setting. I guess it has smaller chance than white on blue for all alphas and modifiers. ;D
Post by: baphotmet on Sun, 25 March 2018, 10:20:56
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 26 March 2018, 07:03:28
I can not take the order on KP taobao, something wrong?
The KP GB page in Chinese has gone offline. The small GB for all R3 version will be halted for now based on the feedbacks. It will be delayed to some time later till a proper time with a proper place. Thank you for your support!
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 26 March 2018, 08:00:58
1. The small GB for all R3 version will be halted for now, based on the feedbacks. It will be delayed to some time later till a proper time with a proper place, or it will come along with the sculpted version like packman86 suggested in #130. It should be noticed that there is a substantial vote number for the all R3 version.
2. About the profile: I got confirmation for Melissa of SP, if we stick to the Symbiosis R1 legends and only change the profile from all R3 to 1-1-2-3-4-3, there will not be any extra cost on molds. So as an response to pomk in #88, we could and we will go for the sculpted version.
3. About the legends: If we want larger legends for the alphas like what's in R6, as Lepidus asked in #61, we have to create and pay for those larger legends, since it's a dead end to ask 7bit for permission to use the legends in R6. I could take care of this new legends cost for the alphas kit if we choose to go for them.
The problem with larger legends is that plenty of R6 legends are larger than what we got from other usual GBs, including the legends for the top Fn row, the number row in alphas kit, the punctuations, etc. It's impossible to create new legends for all keycaps for all kits in Symbiosis R2. And it doesn't look consistent if we just create larger legends only for the alpha kit or just for 26 letters(with APL legends) in it. IMO, the "smaller" legends of the alpha kit from Symbiosis R1 are more consistent to the legends sizes of its modifiers and other keycaps, and it's more compatible to the small legends of the keycaps we got from other usual GBs. For example: if we use the same legend size for Symbiosis R2, we could use the mixture of a blue number row from SA Dasher with a sculpted Symbiosis R2 alphas, without legend size compatibility issue.
So we had better stick to the legend size of Symbiosis R1.
Post by: punksinatra on Mon, 26 March 2018, 11:20:12
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Mon, 26 March 2018, 11:55:06
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 27 March 2018, 04:44:56
Any timeframe we looking at? I know I voted for Uniform R3 but I am ok either way you wanna go (sculptured or uniform R3)
Maybe both sculpted and uniform R3, according to the vote numbers for now. The issue is just which comes first or when & where they happen. Currently I have no schedule on timeframe. I think we should do more promotion and let more people know before the sculpted version(or both versions) going to the GB phase.
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 27 March 2018, 10:44:13
Post by: notflipperdan420 on Tue, 27 March 2018, 12:11:58
Post by: hoq on Wed, 28 March 2018, 21:24:27
:thumb:
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 28 March 2018, 21:49:07
I joined your small GB of this keyset, but what a pitty you cancelled it. I'm always in if you run it again some where some time.
:thumb:
Thanks a lot, bro!
Post by: TechieWeirdo on Wed, 28 March 2018, 23:59:39
Post by: befbef on Sun, 01 April 2018, 03:55:53
Post by: online on Sun, 01 April 2018, 18:57:12
Post by: captsis on Sun, 01 April 2018, 19:16:29
Sculpted for me. All R3 = taller DSAExactly
Post by: romevi on Mon, 30 April 2018, 09:47:00
Post by: dr_unconscionable on Fri, 04 May 2018, 02:26:56
Post by: floristfran on Fri, 04 May 2018, 11:51:52
Post by: shensmobile on Tue, 08 May 2018, 10:01:43
Post by: soupymeatballs on Wed, 30 May 2018, 09:58:13
Post by: nerdblog_io on Wed, 30 May 2018, 13:47:09
Post by: enrique.aliaga on Wed, 30 May 2018, 13:58:13
can someone explain to me why this is called symbiosis?A play on “Symbolics”, the maker of the original and legendary “Space Cadet” Keyboard?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: nerdblog_io on Wed, 30 May 2018, 14:04:57
can someone explain to me why this is called symbiosis?A play on “Symbolics”, the maker of the original and legendary “Space Cadet” Keyboard?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you very much
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 30 May 2018, 23:25:44
Any news to speak of? Still hoping for this to be run with a good vendor!
Thanks for supporting. No much update that has been done and could be shared for now. It's in my mind to cut down the number of kits. It might remain 10 kits or less to be more practical for a real run. And to add more novelties keys. The font printing might not happen.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 03 July 2018, 02:22:02
1. Some kits are removed to reduce the total kit number, to make it concise for a practical GB run.
2. More novelties keys are added
3. The idea of front printing is dropped
Future plans:
1. get my hands on the alpha legends artwork
2. I'm not a NorDe/UK kit user. It's not sure that how it should be for some legends on the NorDeUK kit, e.g., Ü, Since the main alpha "U" has APL legend above. If anyone has this kind of knowledge, please help.
3. rendering
Thank you for supporting.
Post by: gbchk on Tue, 03 July 2018, 02:35:29
A few updates:
1. Some kits are removed to reduce the total kit number, to make it concise for a practical GB run.
2. More novelties keys are added
3. The idea of front printing is dropped
Future plans:
1. get my hands on the alpha legends artwork
2. I'm not a NorDe/UK kit user. It's not sure that how it should be for some legends on the NorDeUK kit, e.g., Ü, Since the main alpha "U" has APL legend above. If anyone has this kind of knowledge, please help.
3. rendering
Thank you for supporting.
Thanks for the update. So has a vendor been decided on or not yet?
Also, one suggestion - it would be great to include a second Meta key to match the original SC (or drop the Alt key, which I don't think was present on the original board). Also, would be cool to see Rub Out :)
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 03 July 2018, 02:54:49
A few updates:
1. Some kits are removed to reduce the total kit number, to make it concise for a practical GB run.
2. More novelties keys are added
3. The idea of front printing is dropped
Future plans:
1. get my hands on the alpha legends artwork
2. I'm not a NorDe/UK kit user. It's not sure that how it should be for some legends on the NorDeUK kit, e.g., Ü, Since the main alpha "U" has APL legend above. If anyone has this kind of knowledge, please help.
3. rendering
Thank you for supporting.
Thanks for the update. So has a vendor been decided on or not yet?
Also, one suggestion - it would be great to include a second Meta key to match the original SC (or drop the Alt key, which I don't think was present on the original board). Also, would be cool to see Rub Out :)
I'm afraid the vendor is not decided yet. There is still some work to do. And the queue of SP SA is quite full, more SA GBs are coming. Let's see whether there is a good time frame later.
Good suggestion. After a review to the legends, I think it's nice to merge what's present on the SC kb into a current layout by using "META" instead of "ALT". And "RUB OUT" will replace "BACKSPACE". Good idea!
Post by: LightningXI on Wed, 04 July 2018, 00:08:59
Post by: qq on Wed, 04 July 2018, 19:10:10
Post by: hhkbp2 on Thu, 05 July 2018, 06:50:15
1. revise the legends as gbchk suggested
2. add vim logos into the vim kit
3. simplify nordeuk kit to iso kit
Post by: Rubbermilitia on Thu, 19 July 2018, 09:15:11
Post by: gbchk on Sat, 21 July 2018, 14:35:34
Updates:
1. revise the legends as gbchk suggested
2. add vim logos into the vim kit
3. simplify nordeuk kit to iso kit
Thanks for taking my suggestion! Just FYI Rub Out was originally used instead of Caps Lock, but Backspace is cool too (not sure if you did it that way on purpose). I guess it actually makes more sense that way though.
Post by: dsaf on Sat, 21 July 2018, 15:19:29
Some comments:
1) the enter key in ISO/UK says "RETURE"
2) will novelties be revised further? They are a bit inconsistent in terms of line width and style.
3) could there be an arrows kit? Usually it sells well. Maybe like those human hands pointing in all directions? Also what about roman numerals?
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 22 July 2018, 01:24:34
Thanks for taking my suggestion! Just FYI Rub Out was originally used instead of Caps Lock, but Backspace is cool too (not sure if you did it that way on purpose). I guess it actually makes more sense that way though.
Yeah, it looks like the SC exactly when "RUB OUT" is in the position of "CAPS LOCK", but it seems duplicated when there is already a "BACKSPACE", so i think it is better to replace "BACKSPACE".
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 22 July 2018, 01:49:53
Good to see this still going and still having an ISO/UK kit!
Some comments:
1) the enter key in ISO/UK says "RETURE"
2) will novelties be revised further? They are a bit inconsistent in terms of line width and style.
3) could there be an arrows kit? Usually it sells well. Maybe like those human hands pointing in all directions? Also what about roman numerals?
Thanks! I think the NorDe keys would be restored later since there is still requirement for them.
1) The typo will be fixed
2) The novelties would be revised. The quote price of this kit seems to be a bit higher and I would like to remove some keys to reduce the price.
3) It adds 3 more kits if we're going to keep Hand, Roman kit, and Arrow kit, like what's in the previous layouts. It tries to minimize the keys and kits to reduce the complexity of a practical GB for current kit setup. I will talk to the vendor and figure out whether we're good to add them since we already have more than a dozen kits.
Post by: vilagefool on Tue, 24 July 2018, 15:59:10
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 08:05:29
Oh yes. If this set is a go, so am I. I'll snag up a few sets for sure! I'll even be willing to break my SA ban for this.
In for at least 1 R3 set. Not even a fan of SA, but this looks awesome!
Thanks for support! Very Encouraging!
Post by: yap68 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 08:59:07
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 09:14:15
Why kits are not updated? I have seen the new ones in Wolfmark qq. Anyway, there are quite some improvements
I'm just writing the post of updates when you ask. :p
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 10:06:10
- The artworks for the alpha area were redrawn. We will use these new legends for those keys in Alpha kit, Vim kit and Colevrak kit, as you could see in the layout pictures
- The novelties kit was redesigned. Many icon keys from previous design are remove to reduce the price.
- Some accent keys in yellow were added into Modifiers, Ergodox, CADR, etc
- Some legends were revised to reflect the Space-Cadet keyboard legends, e.g. Now we have, "RUB OUT" instead of "BACKSPACE", "META" instead of "ALT", "TOP" instead of "MENU" or "CODE"
- Some keys in 40s were removed or revised for simplication
- The 6.25u spacebar was moved to Modifiers kit
- The blue 7u spacebar in Non-standard kit was removed
- Previous Spacebars kit was split into two kits: Spacekeys and Spacebars
- A few keys, such as 1u shift, 2u shift are added to the Non-standard kit to cover more layouts
- A few keys were added for Numpad kit, and CADR kit to cover more layouts
- The Arrow kit and Choice kit were added, thanks dsaf for his suggestions. The Choice kit contains the roman and hands symbols from the Space-Cadet keyboard
- The basic colors were changed to BFP, GD, WCK and YCF
- A new kit called Game kit was added, based on a strong requirement from Chinese KB Community
- The NorDeUK kit will come back, based on the requirement
And here are all the kits:
1. Alpha
[attachimg=1]
The APL and A-Z symbols will be bigger than the symbols in the R1 number row.
2. Modifiers
[attachimg=2]
3. Non standard
[attachimg=3]
4. Numpad
[attachimg=4]
5. Ergodox
[attachimg=5]
6. Planck
[attachimg=6]
7. 40s
[attachimg=7]
8. NorDeUK
[attachimg=8]
9. Colevrak
[attachimg=9]
10. VIM
[attachimg=10]
11. Choices
[attachimg=11]
12. Arrows
[attachimg=12]
13. Game
[attachimg=13]
14. Spacekeys
[attachimg=14]
15. Spacebars
[attachimg=15]
16. Novelties
[attachimg=16]
These novelty keys include(from top to bottom):
1) Row 1
Parenthesized lambda, which usually is the symbol of Lisp
Emacs logo, Emacs(a general name for all variants) is the editor popular in Lisp environment
Graphics logo, the combination of a triangle, a square and a circle is usually used to express the advances in the graphic system of Lisp Machine
2) Row 2
A logo "Symbolics" in retro font style, just as the Symbolics Space-Cadet keyboard was labeled. Symbolics, Inc. was one of the two popular Lisp Machine companies back at 1980s.
3) Row 3
Happy Hacking, a jargon among hackers in MIT AI Lab back to 1970s. It's said that Richard Stallman created it to wish another person plenty of hacking fun. It means "May you have happy hacking", just like the hacking version of "Have a nice trip", or "May the Force be with you". This jargon later is used as one part of the name of a PFU keyboard series, the Happy Hacking Keyboards.
The LMI logo, LMI(Lisp Machines, Inc.) was a company formed in 1979 by Richard Greenblatt of MIT's AI Lab to build Lisp machines.
4) Row 4, Row 5
The same novelty legends mentioned above, just in different size or profile.
17. CADR
[attachimg=17]
Please leave a comment if you have any question or feedback.
It's expected the next update will come up with mock-ups and the details of GB. Stay tuned!
Post by: hansichen on Fri, 27 July 2018, 10:47:35
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 11:11:07
Norde also needs a row 2 Z key, normally you can use the row 4 Z cause it looks the same then rotated by 180° but that won't work here
Thanks! It's added in the kit picture above.
Please help to check whether there is any other issue about the NordeUK kit. ;)
Post by: _ODIN_ on Fri, 27 July 2018, 11:37:39
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 11:47:52
these caps will be abs right?
Yes, it will be ABS double shot keyset of SA profile, made by Signature Plastics.
Post by: clappingcactus on Fri, 27 July 2018, 12:16:35
Any estimate as to when the GB might start? Are we talking 2018? 2019?
Post by: gbchk on Fri, 27 July 2018, 12:18:29
I currently have 7bit's SC set but am very interested in this as it will help me achieve 65% compatibility and potentially replace some of the shiniest keys, but I'm not sure if that would be the case due to the color difference.
Post by: ideus on Fri, 27 July 2018, 12:26:57
Are you planning to run this as a private GB or through SP or MD?
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 12:52:41
Clever VIM kit.
Any estimate as to when the GB might start? Are we talking 2018? 2019?
The overall details of the GB will be released later along with mock-ups when they're ready. The GB will start in a few months. ;)
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 14:43:29
Can I ask why the colors were changed? Is it a matter of cost?
I currently have 7bit's SC set but am very interested in this as it will help me achieve 65% compatibility and potentially replace some of the shiniest keys, but I'm not sure if that would be the case due to the color difference.
Previously there are two divisions of the colors used by two SP SA keyset designs inspired by the Symbolics Space-Cadet keyboard: Symbiosis, which uses the colors BE, GTG, WW, NN; and 7bit's SPH, which uses the colors BFP, GD, WV(WCK later, since SP did change to that color), NN. The later combination has brighter blue and higher contrast of WCK on GD, which looks a bit better on various light condition.
After this IC started, I followed these 4 Symbiosis R1 colors strictly all the time. Recently, a friend advised me to change the colors. I thought it's safe to follow the colors used in Symbiosis R1, drawing clear lines in colors in order not to step on 7bit's toes(as I did from the beginning of this IC, rejecting suspicious requests). But my friend saw this issue differently. He thought it's more important to have an overall view of things, and end these trivial subtle divisions(which causes confusion and pain to buyers), since I have the chance now. He made his wise point so I took his advice to change the colors to BFP, GD, WCK, NN.
So, speaking of colors, assure these colors are consistent among different batches of SP production, you could buy some kits from this GB to get along with 7bit's SC kits. But there are still some small issues you should know:
1. SP changed the colors before. The WV color used in 7bit's R4 was no more. Later WCK was used for similar look. I'm not sure what's the difference between these two, since I don't have R4. Currently the best I could do is to choose WCK. If what you have is R4, you should be aware of this
2. The legend differences. You know, 7bit's keys have bigger legends and bolder line for legends, even for modifier keys. We discussed this in previous posts in this thread. I had asked 7bit nicely to use his molds on R6 for those alpha legends before, but he seemed not interested, and I didn't get his permission. We will build new legends in this GB, so the alpha legends might have differences from what you have. I suspect that it would not be a perfect match if you just replace some keys in them. For example, if you like VIM and buy only the VIM kit from this GB, when you install these VIM keys to those you have, it's possible that you might find out the size or position of APL symbols of VIM keys is slightly different.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 14:59:57
The CADR set will provide full freedom to users of sub-sixty boards. Awesome.
Are you planning to run this as a private GB or through SP or MD?
I think all R3 keys match small boards quite well, but we will still have a numpad area. ;D
It's going to be a public GB. The place and date will be announced later.
Post by: dsaf on Fri, 27 July 2018, 15:07:42
- The Arrow kit and Choice kit were added, thanks dsaf for his suggestions. The Choice kit contains the roman and hands symbols from the Space-Cadet keyboard
- The NorDeUK kit will come back, based on the requirement
Awesome!
- A new kit called Game kit are added, based on a strong requirement from Chinese KB Community
I am interested as well! Such a kit started disappearing from SA sets and it would be good to reverse this negative trend.
1) Row 1
Parenthesized lambda, which usually is the symbol of Lisp
I am personally not a fan of how it looks but understand it's accurate... Then again I am not a Lisp programmer.
However for the sake of discussion, what about this variant?
(http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/lisp_logo/LISP_logo_mid.png)
http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/lisp_logo/LISP_logo_small.png (http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/lisp_logo/LISP_logo_small.png)
2) Row 2
A logo named "Symbiosis". I prefer to the name "Symbolics" ... But I don't get the permission. ...
Post by: dsaf on Fri, 27 July 2018, 15:15:27
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 15:58:16
I am personally not a fan of how it looks but understand it's accurate... Then again I am not a Lisp programmer.
However for the sake of discussion, what about this variant?Show Image(http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/lisp_logo/LISP_logo_mid.png)
http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/lisp_logo/LISP_logo_small.png (http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/lisp_logo/LISP_logo_small.png)
I thought of this logo at some draft at the very beginning. Its shape doesn't fit perfectly in a 1u square space, and it's not very nice to connect "I" and "P", which creates a line to make the characters' shapes fuzzy. The connection of "L" and "S" is much better.
I think the parenthesized lambda logo does a better job as a novelties key. But it's open for discussion. Any idea is appreciated.
Are you sure? I-am-not-a-lawyer but it looks like they don't have a trademark. Doesn't even look like a custom font.Alternatively what about "SPACE-CADET"? I don't have a strong feeling here just thinking out loud.
I'm not sure. Wish a lawyer could help and confirm it's usable or not. :p
The font is a bit-map font called symbolics, it's used in old Symbolics system terminal. You could download it from github. In that repo it says
Quote
Symbolics was dissolved in the mid 1990s, and the current state of its intellectual property is muddled. The rights holders of VLM and Genera itself are not well understood. There is no longer any "Symbolics, Inc.".
Anyway, I don't think they has IP on this font. Moreover, technically speaking, I didn't use this font since it's bit-map. I vectorized the shape of these characters for this keyset design referring to pictures of Symbolics keyboards, and this logo just has a similar look to this font.
"SPACE-CADET" is a good alternative. Previously it's "LISP MACHINE", which reflects the theme of this design. It looks closer to a novelty key and more subtle for the word "Symbiosis" in a retro style font, so it's changed.
Also, would it be possible to add one more colour of the Return key to NorDeUk (just like standard ANSI)?
You mean a yellow one, right? Usually there is only one color in the UK kit, so as to reduce the price. But yes we could try to add one.
Post by: adamcobabe on Fri, 27 July 2018, 17:19:24
Post by: wtoe on Fri, 27 July 2018, 17:45:57
I don't know if it's too late for suggestions like this, but would it be possible to add 2 more hand pointers to R2? They could be used in the nav cluster and would emulate the 2x2 hand key cluster from the original board.
(https://i.imgur.com/xEmwJF2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/leqEnqL.jpg)
Post by: ideus on Fri, 27 July 2018, 17:53:04
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 19:28:31
Will the F1-F12 keys be the larger 7bit versions or the small standard SP style? I'm missing these keys on my 7bit kits and want to bastardize.
Bigger function letters, which were used in SA Carbon R2 and SA SONG.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 19:37:30
This is great, definitely interested in participating in GB. I don't have the budget for the GMK run going on right now and I'd prefer the SA profile/centered legends for this set anyways.
I don't know if it's too late for suggestions like this, but would it be possible to add 2 more hand pointers to R2? They could be used in the nav cluster and would emulate the 2x2 hand key cluster from the original board.
Good idea. 2x2 cluster, nice meme to the SC keyboard. It's fresh to me for this style of usage. If we have 2x2 cluster for hands, I guess there should be a cluster for Roman letters as an alternation, which would be also useful for layouts which have room for many 1u keys. Will get this updated later.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 27 July 2018, 19:39:28
You can always use Symbiolics for the Novelty key. :))
Sure? We will go for the retro Symbolics then. :))
Post by: wtoe on Fri, 27 July 2018, 20:52:40
This is great, definitely interested in participating in GB. I don't have the budget for the GMK run going on right now and I'd prefer the SA profile/centered legends for this set anyways.
I don't know if it's too late for suggestions like this, but would it be possible to add 2 more hand pointers to R2? They could be used in the nav cluster and would emulate the 2x2 hand key cluster from the original board.
Good idea. 2x2 cluster, nice meme to the SC keyboard. It's fresh to me for this style of usage. If we have 2x2 cluster for hands, I guess there should be a cluster for Roman letters as an alternation, which would be also useful for layouts which have room for many 1u keys. Will get this updated later.
Sounds good! Regarding the Roman numerals, what is the reasoning for the R2 "III" and the R4 "II" and "III"? What layout are they for?
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 28 July 2018, 03:31:43
Sounds good! Regarding the Roman numerals, what is the reasoning for the R2 "III" and the R4 "II" and "III"? What layout are they for?
The current R2 is not necessary, since it has R4 already. "II" and "III" just map to thumb up and thumb down to provide flexibility on arrow area. I think this R4 "II" could be removed.
Post by: t8c on Sat, 28 July 2018, 04:25:56
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 28 July 2018, 04:46:40
Looks great. Would love to get an ALT GRAPH, SYMBOL AND GREEK black in blue mods in the minivan kit. R6 never offered those and especially the latter two belong on a space cadet keyboard as they are on the original one.
Thanks. There is a "ALT GRAPH" on UK kit usually. Because we replace "ALT" with "META", following the Lisp Machine convention, "ALT GRAPH" is removed. As for "SYMBOL", it didn't show its face in the Space-Cadet keyboard or LMI-CADR keyboard, but it happened on later models of Symbolics keyboard in different color theme, so it's not added this time. And "GREEK" was used to output the front-printing greek symbols in the Space-Cadet keyboard. Since front-printing is not a option any more for this project, I chose "TOP" instead. "TOP" was used to output the APL Symbols above "A-Z". "GREEK" looks nicer, but "TOP" seems to make more sense since we still have the APL symbols, although these APL symbols are not used by most computer users any more.
Post by: captsis on Sat, 28 July 2018, 05:09:37
Looks great. Would love to get an ALT GRAPH, SYMBOL AND GREEK black in blue mods in the minivan kit. R6 never offered those and especially the latter two belong on a space cadet keyboard as they are on the original one.
Thanks. There is a "ALT GRAPH" on UK kit usually. Because we replace "ALT" with "META", following the Lisp Machine convention, "ALT GRAPH" is removed. As for "SYMBOL", it didn't show its face in the Space-Cadet keyboard or LMI-CADR keyboard, but it happened on later models of Symbolics keyboard in different color theme, so it's not added this time. And "GREEK" was used to output the front-printing greek symbols in the Space-Cadet keyboard. Since front-printing is not a option any more for this project, I chose "TOP" instead. "TOP" was used to output the APL Symbols above "A-Z". "GREEK" looks nicer, but "TOP" seems to make more sense since we still have the APL symbols, although these APL symbols are not used by most computer users any more.
Would most people now'a days just use them as macros if they had the keys?
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 28 July 2018, 05:19:49
Would most people now'a days just use them as macros if they had the keys?
Shortcuts to applications, Special control(for media, keyboard layers, etc), Macros, vast combinations with other keys.
Post by: t8c on Sun, 29 July 2018, 07:33:42
Post by: shensmobile on Tue, 31 July 2018, 15:30:22
Post by: Evilocity on Fri, 03 August 2018, 10:00:46
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Post by: online on Fri, 03 August 2018, 10:43:31
Post by: befbef on Fri, 03 August 2018, 13:06:35
Post by: alisonica on Fri, 03 August 2018, 15:06:29
Is this GB going to happen? I'm deciding which one to join... GMK or SA? OR BOTH :eek:
Both :))
Post by: online on Fri, 03 August 2018, 15:16:50
Ordered GMK, most likely will join the SA GB.Is this GB going to happen? I'm deciding which one to join... GMK or SA? OR BOTH :eek:
Both :))
Well, my right kidney has to go.
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Post by: oldcat on Fri, 03 August 2018, 17:14:41
Post by: Hamel on Fri, 03 August 2018, 19:48:57
Will the sublegends in alpha kit also be doubleshot?
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 04 August 2018, 06:09:47
I'm out of the loop here. When's this happening?
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Soon(tm) :p
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 04 August 2018, 06:13:03
I love the Emacs novelties. Being an Emacs user myself, I can definitely relate to this set!
Thanks for your support! ;D
Super excited for this.
Will the sublegends in alpha kit also be doubleshot?
Yep, all legends will be double shot.
Post by: Taques on Sun, 05 August 2018, 03:41:41
Also love the all R3 set to pieces! That allows me to support both the SA and GMK group buys with the CADR kit and the assembly kit respectively. Oh and of course the novelties from both!
I must admit I selfishly wish there were R3 Roman numeral keys in white font in the choices kit to go with the CADR kit, but I don’t know how the logistics of that shakes out. Either way, great job on setting this up and I can’t wait to join.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 05 August 2018, 05:08:37
I must admit I selfishly wish there were R3 Roman numeral keys in white font in the choices kit to go with the CADR kit, but I don’t know how the logistics of that shakes out. Either way, great job on setting this up and I can’t wait to join.
Thank you for the support! :D
There are numerous combinations of colors/profiles, considering we have white/black legends at different rows as the Space-Cadet is, and sculpted/all R3 flat versions. It's hard to put the keys with proper color legends and profiles into one kit to fit both sculpted version and flat version properly. Given that the sculpted version usually has more buyers nowadays, the design leans to the sculpted version. So you might notice most add-on kits are designed to work only with the sculpted base. And the CADR kit only provides a nude all in one kit for flat profile enthusiasts.
As for the choices kit you mentioned, I think it's a way to fulfill your request by adding a all R3 choices kit with only R3 white/black legends, but the MOQ still is an issue. You know 7bit's R6 has these white on blue Roman numeral and hands keys in R3. I have no idea how many CADR buyers would buy this R3 choices kit as well.
Post by: mkarlsson on Sun, 05 August 2018, 13:25:21
Have you evaluated the possibility of running this buy with the new SA-P tooling from SP?
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
Thick PBT but no doble shot though. But could be interesting.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 05 August 2018, 15:53:46
Hi hhkbp2,
Have you evaluated the possibility of running this buy with the new SA-P tooling from SP?
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
Thick PBT but no doble shot though. But could be interesting.
I'm afraid I don't know much about SA-P tooling, and haven't evaluated the possibility to use it. Seeing this short intro, I guess it's not ready/suitable for this project. I thought about the other options like DSA, or dye-sub when I started this project at the beginning, but at the end of the day I concluded that double shot ABS SA from SP is the best for this design.
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 05 August 2018, 15:53:55
Hi hhkbp2,
Have you evaluated the possibility of running this buy with the new SA-P tooling from SP?
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
Thick PBT but no doble shot though. But could be interesting.
Dye sublimation is darker legends on lighter colors. SP has no way to use a light color on darker keys ("reverse dye sublimation"requires to start with a white keycap and dye all 5 sides of the key). SP has no current way to do this type of dye sublimation, so the currently proposed colorway would not work.
Post by: mkarlsson on Sun, 05 August 2018, 17:08:44
Hi hhkbp2,
Have you evaluated the possibility of running this buy with the new SA-P tooling from SP?
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
Thick PBT but no doble shot though. But could be interesting.
I'm afraid I don't know much about SA-P tooling, and haven't evaluated the possibility to use it. Seeing this short intro, I guess it's not ready/suitable for this project. I thought about the other options like DSA, or dye-sub when I started this project at the beginning, but at the end of the day I concluded that double shot ABS SA from SP is the best for this design.
Thanks for the quick response. Seems that SA-P is basically a thick PBT version of their current SA profile. But yeah, limited to sublimination. GLWGB!
Hi hhkbp2,
Have you evaluated the possibility of running this buy with the new SA-P tooling from SP?
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
Thick PBT but no doble shot though. But could be interesting.
Dye sublimation is darker legends on lighter colors. SP has no way to use a light color on darker keys ("reverse dye sublimation"requires to start with a white keycap and dye all 5 sides of the key). SP has no current way to do this type of dye sublimation, so the currently proposed colorway would not work.
Understand, thanks a lot for the good info.
Post by: bcbishop on Tue, 07 August 2018, 14:12:56
After a review to the legends, I think it's nice to merge what's present on the SC kb into a current layout by using "META" instead of "ALT". And "RUB OUT" will replace "BACKSPACE". Good idea!
Would you consider offering a regular "BACKSPACE" key as well? Having most of the modifiers in line with current keyboard legends makes the "RUB OUT" stand out in a way that I don't know that I love. (I'd probably feel differently if it was in the caps lock position, per the actual symbolics board.)
I'm definitely interested in the option of using RUB OUT as BACKSPACE, but seems a shame to have it be the only choice?
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 07 August 2018, 14:48:40
After a review to the legends, I think it's nice to merge what's present on the SC kb into a current layout by using "META" instead of "ALT". And "RUB OUT" will replace "BACKSPACE". Good idea!
Would you consider offering a regular "BACKSPACE" key as well? Having most of the modifiers in line with current keyboard legends makes the "RUB OUT" stand out in a way that I don't know that I love. (I'd probably feel differently if it was in the caps lock position, per the actual symbolics board.)
I'm definitely interested in the option of using RUB OUT as BACKSPACE, but seems a shame to have it be the only choice?
The problem with "RUB OUT" in "CAPS LOCK" position, IMO, are 1. the meaning doesn't fit, since just very few people would actually use this key as "RUB OUT" indeed today; 2. then there is a duplicated "BACKSPACE"(Space-Cadet keyboard doesn't have "BACKSPACE", so it doesn't have such problem).
It will become a cost issue, if more choices are provided. You know "BACKSPACE"(so was "RUBOUT" as currently it's) exists in the Modifiers kit as 2u, Non-standard kit as 1u, 1.5u, Numpad kit as 1u, and 40s kit, planck it and so on. They should use the same legend for consistency. If we decide to add a "BACKSPACE" besides "RUBOUT", it adds the cost of many keycaps into all kits, which IMO is not worthy.
It's similar situation for other replacements, e.g. replacing "ALT" with "META"(which is rarer in current keysets/keyboards IMO. Really a hard choice to made). The best act is to just have one version. We could usually rollback to the previous version to provide only normal legends "BACKSPACE" and "ALT". But do we have a good way to absorb the old legends into modern keyboard layouts? Or do you think it's the best to have all normal legends. Plus one R3 1.75u "ROB OUT" in the Modifiers kit?
Post by: quaddepos on Tue, 07 August 2018, 14:50:22
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Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 07 August 2018, 14:56:58
Quick question; Just saw this here, will it be row 3 again or sculpt?
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The answer is both. You should read the first thread post before asking this question.
Post by: quaddepos on Tue, 07 August 2018, 15:00:51
Quick question; Just saw this here, will it be row 3 again or sculpt?
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The answer is both. You should read the thread post before asking this question.
Sorry i should indeed, Tapatalk does render the images on the bottom.
Would you he up for adding Row2 2u backspace for Pearl support?
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Post by: bcbishop on Tue, 07 August 2018, 15:28:43
Would you consider offering a regular "BACKSPACE" key as well? Having most of the modifiers in line with current keyboard legends makes the "RUB OUT" stand out in a way that I don't know that I love. (I'd probably feel differently if it was in the caps lock position, per the actual symbolics board.)
I'm definitely interested in the option of using RUB OUT as BACKSPACE, but seems a shame to have it be the only choice?
The problem with "RUB OUT" in "CAPS LOCK" position, IMO, are 1. the meaning doesn't fit, since just very few people would actually use this key as "RUB OUT" indeed today; 2. then there is a duplicated "BACKSPACE"(Space-Cadet keyboard doesn't have "BACKSPACE", so it doesn't have such problem).
It will become a cost issue, if more choices are provided. You know "BACKSPACE"(so was "RUBOUT" as currently it's) exists in the Modifiers kit as 2u, Non-standard kit as 1u, 1.5u, Numpad kit as 1u, and 40s kit, planck it and so on. They should use the same legend for consistency. If we decide to add a "BACKSPACE" besides "RUBOUT", it adds the cost of many keycaps into all kits, which IMO is not worthy.
It's similar situation for other replacements, e.g. replacing "ALT" with "META"(which is rarer in current keysets/keyboards IMO. Really a hard choice to made). The best act is to just have one version. We could usually rollback to the previous version to provide only normal legends "BACKSPACE" and "ALT". But do we have a good way to absorb the old legends into modern keyboard layouts? Or do you think it's the best for you to have all normal legends. Plus one R3 1.75u "ROB OUT" in the Modifiers kit?
First off, thank you for being so thoughtful with all the elements of this! Obviously whatever the community likes best should win out. Speaking for just myself personally, I really like the way the kits are currently laid out. I've grown used to swapping in one legend for ALT, or vice versa, so that all makes a ton of sense to me. What I'm bumping on is the idea of using this keyset on a 60/65%. As laid out, all of the modifier legends would be standard (or common enough subs, in the case of Meta for Alt). The one standout would be that R1 RUB OUT.
On a full-size keyboard, or if someone had a numpad hooked up alongside their normal board, it wouldn't be an issue because you'd then have "rub out" in two different locations — it would feel more like an intentional, cohesive choice. The only scenario it would bump me would be in that 60/65 scenario. All of which is my way of saying that I'm not suggesting you roll back the RUB OUT inclusion across all kits. My particular aesthetic concern would be solved with just the addition of an R1 2u BACKSPACE to the standard Modifiers kit, for any 60/65 users that wanted that layout to feel as cohesive as possible. :-)
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 07 August 2018, 15:29:59
Quick question; Just saw this here, will it be row 3 again or sculpt?
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
The answer is both. You should read the thread post before asking this question.
Sorry i should indeed, Tapatalk does render the images on the bottom.
Would you he up for adding Row2 2u backspace for Pearl support?
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
No problem. I wish everyone would read the post in details and give feedback if necessary on anything, like layout/legends, etc.
I don't know much of Pearl, actually I'm not even a 40s user. Could you give more info for it, especially the layout with key profiles and sizes. I will look into this.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 07 August 2018, 16:58:02
First off, thank you for being so thoughtful with all the elements of this! Obviously whatever the community likes best should win out. Speaking for just myself personally, I really like the way the kits are currently laid out. I've grown used to swapping in one legend for ALT, or vice versa, so that all makes a ton of sense to me. What I'm bumping on is the idea of using this keyset on a 60/65%. As laid out, all of the modifier legends would be standard (or common enough subs, in the case of Meta for Alt). The one standout would be that R1 RUB OUT.
On a full-size keyboard, or if someone had a numpad hooked up alongside their normal board, it wouldn't be an issue because you'd then have "rub out" in two different locations — it would feel more like an intentional, cohesive choice. The only scenario it would bump me would be in that 60/65 scenario. All of which is my way of saying that I'm not suggesting you roll back the RUB OUT inclusion across all kits. My particular aesthetic concern would be solved with just the addition of an R1 2u BACKSPACE to the standard Modifiers kit, for any 60/65 users that wanted that layout to feel as cohesive as possible. :-)
So you would like to put "RUB OUT" in a 104 keyboard but just want "BACKSPACE" in a 60 keyboard? I'm afraid the I don't understand what wrong with "RUB OUT" in 60/65. Personally I don't think "RUB OUT" is not cohesive. ;D
If "standard" legends are what you are suggesting, I could understand, because not all prefer to the Space-Cadet legends. And the "standard" legends precisely include "ALT", "BACKSPACE". It leads to the solution that I mentioned previously: all normal legends("ALT", "BACKSPACE") plus one 1.75u r3 "RUB OUT".
I guess just very few people would like to use different legends on the backspace key when they switch to different layouts. It doesn't make much sense to provide two legends. So almost all keyset designs just come with one legend on this key. I think we go either way: normal legends("BACKSPACE", "ALT"), Space-Cadet legends("RUB OUT", "META"), it's just a preference choice. But not both.
Current layout has other control keys(for example, "HYPER"), as Space-Cadet keyboard has. In either way you should be free to swap all "ALT" with some others.
Post by: bcbishop on Tue, 07 August 2018, 17:41:58
So you would like to put "RUB OUT" in a 104 keyboard but just want "BACKSPACE" in a 60 keyboard? I'm afraid the I don't understand what wrong with "RUB OUT" in 60/65. Personally I don't think "RUB OUT" is not cohesive. ;D
If "standard" legends are what you are suggesting, I could understand, because not all prefer to the Space-Cadet legends. And the "standard" legends precisely include "ALT", "BACKSPACE". It leads to the solution that I mentioned previously: all normal legends("ALT", "BACKSPACE") plus one 1.75u r3 "RUB OUT".
May sound crazy, but yeah -- the one-off RUB OUT for backspace on a 60/65 seems a little random to me. There's no context without any other matching keys. Would be like having a Godspeed set with regular legends on a 60/65, and then "CUTOFF" as the only option for backspace. A totally valid stylistic choice for an end user to make, but would prefer it be that — a choice for the user — rather than the only option available in the entire set. (Bottom row legends don't bother me nearly as much as my hands are always covering them up when I'm typing, so personally I'd be fine with either ALT, or META, etc. -- but everyone's got their personal preferences there, too. Hence my reluctance to suggest going to standard legends across the board.)
In any case, thanks for talking this one out! :)
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 07 August 2018, 20:13:53
So you would like to put "RUB OUT" in a 104 keyboard but just want "BACKSPACE" in a 60 keyboard? I'm afraid the I don't understand what wrong with "RUB OUT" in 60/65. Personally I don't think "RUB OUT" is not cohesive. ;D
If "standard" legends are what you are suggesting, I could understand, because not all prefer to the Space-Cadet legends. And the "standard" legends precisely include "ALT", "BACKSPACE". It leads to the solution that I mentioned previously: all normal legends("ALT", "BACKSPACE") plus one 1.75u r3 "RUB OUT".
May sound crazy, but yeah -- the one-off RUB OUT for backspace on a 60/65 seems a little random to me. There's no context without any other matching keys. Would be like having a Godspeed set with regular legends on a 60/65, and then "CUTOFF" as the only option for backspace. A totally valid stylistic choice for an end user to make, but would prefer it be that — a choice for the user — rather than the only option available in the entire set. (Bottom row legends don't bother me nearly as much as my hands are always covering them up when I'm typing, so personally I'd be fine with either ALT, or META, etc. -- but everyone's got their personal preferences there, too. Hence my reluctance to suggest going to standard legends across the board.)
In any case, thanks for talking this one out! :)
Got it. That makes sense, not crazy at all. Previously it has two sets of Modifiers, like what's in Godspeed: one only contains standard legends, with "BACKSPACE"; and the other contains Space-Cadet legends, with "RUB OUT", "NETWORK", etc. But later only the standard Modifiers kit is left to simplify the kits. And then I tried to take in "RUB OUT" for the standard Modifiers, in a way that I though worthy a try. It led to the current layout.
Thank you for your feedback! It's a good point. I will rethink about the way to turn to standard legends.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 08 August 2018, 12:09:15
Hence my reluctance to suggest going to standard legends across the board.
The layout pictures have been updated to the style of standard legends in the first thread post. Please let me know if you have any other feedback.
Post by: bcbishop on Wed, 08 August 2018, 13:13:25
The layout pictures have been updated to the style of standard legends in the first thread post. Please let me know if you have any other feedback.
I won't lie -- I LOVE the options this offers! Hope others feel the same, and thank you for being so open to discussion! I imagine I'll be using that stepped RUB OUT for capslock myself! :D
Post by: oldcat on Wed, 08 August 2018, 16:11:16
Post by: TechieWeirdo on Thu, 09 August 2018, 01:45:41
Quick question; Just saw this here, will it be row 3 again or sculpt?
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The answer is both. You should read the thread post before asking this question.
Sorry i should indeed, Tapatalk does render the images on the bottom.
Would you he up for adding Row2 2u backspace for Pearl support?
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No problem. I wish everyone would read the post in details and give feedback if necessary on anything, like layout/legends, etc.
I don't know much of Pearl, actually I'm not even a 40s user. Could you give more info for it, especially the layout with key profiles and sizes. I will look into this.
The 40s Kit lacks an R2 backspace key to support one of the Pearl's layout which has a 2u Backspace. Since the backspace key is on the same row as QWERTY, the 40s kit should have an R2 2u Backspace key to accommodate the layout, shown here:
[attachurl=1]
No one seems to be willing to do it because it needs a new mold but if you can make it happen future keycap sets can include this option and every Pearl user will be happy.
Post by: quaddepos on Thu, 09 August 2018, 01:52:45
Quick question; Just saw this here, will it be row 3 again or sculpt?
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
The answer is both. You should read the thread post before asking this question.
Sorry i should indeed, Tapatalk does render the images on the bottom.
Would you he up for adding Row2 2u backspace for Pearl support?
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
No problem. I wish everyone would read the post in details and give feedback if necessary on anything, like layout/legends, etc.
I don't know much of Pearl, actually I'm not even a 40s user. Could you give more info for it, especially the layout with key profiles and sizes. I will look into this.
The 40s Kit lacks an R2 backspace key to support one of the Pearl's layout which has a 2u Backspace. Since the backspace key is on the same row as QWERTY, the 40s kit should have an R2 2u Backspace key to accommodate the layout, shown here:
(Attachment Link)
No one seems to be willing to do it because it needs a new mold but if you can make it happen future keycap sets can include this option and every Pearl user will be happy.
Im pretty sure there was a plan to make it https://i.imgur.com/WvXuV2i.jpg But it didnt make it sadly! Start the trend! this set would be so good on a Pearl!
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
Post by: hhkbp2 on Thu, 09 August 2018, 06:21:28
The 40s Kit lacks an R2 backspace key to support one of the Pearl's layout which has a 2u Backspace. Since the backspace key is on the same row as QWERTY, the 40s kit should have an R2 2u Backspace key to accommodate the layout, shown here:
(Attachment Link)
No one seems to be willing to do it because it needs a new mold but if you can make it happen future keycap sets can include this option and every Pearl user will be happy.
Im pretty sure there was a plan to make it https://i.imgur.com/WvXuV2i.jpg But it didnt make it sadly! Start the trend! this set would be so good on a Pearl!
Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
Looking at the Pearl layout, these keycaps are needed to add for a perfect full coverage: R2 2u BACKSPACE, R3 1.5u TAB, R4 2.25u SHIFT. I'm afraid it will increase the price by $10 more at MOQ 50, which will be too pricy. I guess price is the reason why SA BY THE SEA removed some keycaps in its second attempt in GB. But it still didn't make it to production. We could understand why most SA keysets don't include them.
In this case I prefer not to add them. Since we have a flat CADR kit this time, I think maybe you guys could consider buying it(pay more but get more keycaps for even 60 or 87 keyboards) to make a good coverage. How would you like that? You know in such a small keyboard, the sculpted curve doesn't make that much difference comparing to the flat version.
Post by: bcbishop on Thu, 09 August 2018, 08:54:51
I plan on using this on a CA66, and it would be awesome to have a series of I / II / III / IV keys on the far-right column that match the sculpting profile of the rest of the board, instead of a Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/etc combo. That board is obviously pretty niche, but I can think of several 65/68/+ boards that have similar layouts where that kind of option would be desireable.
R1 “I”, R2 “II”, and R3 “III” are already included, so it would just take that last key to pull it off!
Post by: hhkbp2 on Thu, 09 August 2018, 10:06:54
One more thought hhkbp2 — would do you think about adding a R4 “IV” key (with black legend) to the Choices kit?
I plan on using this on a CA66, and it would be awesome to have a series of I / II / III / IV keys on the far-right column that match the sculpting profile of the rest of the board, instead of a Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/etc combo. That board is obviously pretty niche, but I can think of several 65/68/+ boards that have similar layouts where that kind of option would be desireable.
R1 “I”, R2 “II”, and R3 “III” are already included, so it would just take that last key to pull it off!
It should do the job by changing current R4 "III" to "IV". Since it's not necessary take "III" as "UP". What do you think of that?
-----------------
I think this should work to match both legend and color:
[attachimg=1]
Post by: bcbishop on Thu, 09 August 2018, 13:40:39
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 10 August 2018, 03:18:39
[attachimg=1]
to provide Space-Cadet keyboard specified legends for all layouts.
Post by: Taques on Fri, 10 August 2018, 09:23:55
One more thought hhkbp2 — would do you think about adding a R4 “IV” key (with black legend) to the Choices kit?
I plan on using this on a CA66, and it would be awesome to have a series of I / II / III / IV keys on the far-right column that match the sculpting profile of the rest of the board, instead of a Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/etc combo. That board is obviously pretty niche, but I can think of several 65/68/+ boards that have similar layouts where that kind of option would be desireable.
R1 “I”, R2 “II”, and R3 “III” are already included, so it would just take that last key to pull it off!
It should do the job by changing current R4 "III" to "IV". Since it's not necessary take "III" as "UP". What do you think of that?
-----------------
I think this should work to match both legend and color:
(Attachment Link)
Very nice, that will look so sharp on the CA66!
Post by: befbef on Fri, 10 August 2018, 09:34:43
Quote
Very nice, that will look so sharp on the CA66!What CA66 color will you take?
Post by: Taques on Fri, 10 August 2018, 14:12:05
QuoteVery nice, that will look so sharp on the CA66!What CA66 color will you take?
I really want the black one, but with R2 starting next week I probably won’t be able to afford it after buying GMK Space Cadet and the Input Club Kira :(
Post by: online on Fri, 10 August 2018, 14:59:39
IMO, CA66 > KiraQuoteVery nice, that will look so sharp on the CA66!What CA66 color will you take?
I really want the black one, but with R2 starting next week I probably won’t be able to afford it after buying GMK Space Cadet and the Input Club Kira :(
:))
Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 10 August 2018, 19:29:04
[attachimg=1]
Post by: dvorcol on Fri, 10 August 2018, 20:19:49
Just playing about Colemak and Dvorak layout this weekend. Because we have to reuse the legends of Alphas kits, each alphabet character is bound with one fix APL legend no matter what layout. In Colemak or Dvorak layout, the APL legends look random, out of order. Luckily most of us don't use these APL legends any longer. I think we will live.
(Attachment Link)
Does the same SA legend tool work for any row? If not, I think Dvorak and Colemak layouts would look much better with APL legends in order (as close as possible). Like the kit in Oblotzky's current GMK drop.
(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/product-images/massdrop-x-oblotzky-gmk-space-cadet-keycap-set/FP/KqJrjvpUT7avxS2zBHPO_10_colevrak.jpg?mode=guest_open)
(https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/img_comment%2FJHSJxLPNQ0SMBXWZUW7D_colevrak.jpg?mode=guest_open)
Post by: stolenweapon on Fri, 10 August 2018, 20:20:58
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 11 August 2018, 05:22:09
Does the same SA legend tool work for any row? If not, I think Dvorak and Colemak layouts would look much better with APL legends in order (as close as possible). Like the kit in Oblotzky's current GMK drop.
Yep, SP could do different profile for one legend. It will cost a lot if we create new legends just for the APL legends to be in order, which will raise the price so much that it's hard to reach MOQ.
Post by: Taques on Sun, 12 August 2018, 01:25:22
IMO, CA66 > KiraQuoteVery nice, that will look so sharp on the CA66!What CA66 color will you take?
I really want the black one, but with R2 starting next week I probably won’t be able to afford it after buying GMK Space Cadet and the Input Club Kira :(
:))
Agreed 100%. The CA66 would probably be my endgame board... it is a tough decision but I would hate to miss out since it is the final round. Then it would be hard to choose between a black (for SA Pulse and GMK Laser) or grey case (for SA Carbon and SA Symbiosis).
One thing is for certain though, sign me up for CADR, Spacebars, Cadet, and Choices! Or with any luck a bunch of CADR buyers will start clamoring for an R3 choices kit ;) (hey, a guy can hope!). So excited :D
Post by: t8c on Sun, 12 August 2018, 04:11:33
When playing around these Space-Cadet keyboard legends, I think we should add a kit like this:Very cool! Thanks!
(Attachment Link)
to provide Space-Cadet keyboard specified legends for all layouts.
Post by: eas on Sun, 12 August 2018, 11:42:33
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 12 August 2018, 23:56:23
Agreed 100%. The CA66 would probably be my endgame board... it is a tough decision but I would hate to miss out since it is the final round. Then it would be hard to choose between a black (for SA Pulse and GMK Laser) or grey case (for SA Carbon and SA Symbiosis).
One thing is for certain though, sign me up for CADR, Spacebars, Cadet, and Choices! Or with any luck a bunch of CADR buyers will start clamoring for an R3 choices kit ;) (hey, a guy can hope!). So excited :D
It's out of the topic for this thread, but CA66 also caught my eyes. I was tinkering the idea to make a keyboard kit to bring back one of Symbolics keyboards, I found CA66 when doing research. Its case has round front and back, straight sides just like Space-Cadet keyboard case(and many IBM old school keyboards' cases). Maybe I would get a CA66 in white color to match the coming Symbiosis keyset, since the Space-Cadet keyboard has a white case. ;D
Post by: Lisinge on Mon, 13 August 2018, 18:11:19
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 15 August 2018, 23:42:06
This might have been brought up already but can we please have eu proxy for this set? Btw, love your hard work hhkbp2 <3
Thanks! Will try to get the proxy.
Post by: Absinthe on Sun, 19 August 2018, 01:59:20
Post by: fishinaspacesuit on Sun, 19 August 2018, 06:55:39
Post by: bcbishop on Wed, 29 August 2018, 12:37:37
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 01 September 2018, 08:14:28
Beyond excited for this set, hhkbp2. Do you have a rough idea yet of when the GB will be moving forward? This year, or more likely next year? Thanks again for all of your hard work! :)
This year. The GB date will be announced soon. Thanks for your support.
Post by: yap68 on Sat, 01 September 2018, 09:25:59
And can you make a yellow spacebar kit?
Post by: Windeh on Sat, 01 September 2018, 11:41:08
Beyond excited for this set, hhkbp2. Do you have a rough idea yet of when the GB will be moving forward? This year, or more likely next year? Thanks again for all of your hard work! :)
This year. The GB date will be announced soon. Thanks for your support.
HYPE!! ;D
Post by: wtoe on Sun, 02 September 2018, 22:58:36
Can't wait! (but have to :-[)Beyond excited for this set, hhkbp2. Do you have a rough idea yet of when the GB will be moving forward? This year, or more likely next year? Thanks again for all of your hard work! :)
This year. The GB date will be announced soon. Thanks for your support.
Post by: crykn on Sun, 02 September 2018, 23:06:08
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sun, 02 September 2018, 23:19:35
Definitely interested, but I would like to see an option for grey function keys instead of blue for aesthetic reasons (unless you're intent on staying completely true to the Symbolics set inspiration). I'm specifically looking to mix the alphas from this set with the modifiers from another.
The kits are frozen for the coming GB. I'm afraid we could not have various combinations of colors/mods/options, so as to reduce the complexity for the GB. So grey function keys will not happen this time. For sure you could buy the alphas kit alone to do the mix as you like.
Post by: Taques on Mon, 03 September 2018, 16:23:23
Beyond excited for this set, hhkbp2. Do you have a rough idea yet of when the GB will be moving forward? This year, or more likely next year? Thanks again for all of your hard work! :)
This year. The GB date will be announced soon. Thanks for your support.
:D can’t wait, thanks for all of your hard work on this set
Post by: bcbishop on Tue, 04 September 2018, 14:54:25
This year. The GB date will be announced soon. Thanks for your support.
Amazing news. Thank you for bringing this to life, hhkbp2!
Post by: cijanzen on Tue, 04 September 2018, 14:58:11
Agreed 100%. The CA66 would probably be my endgame board... it is a tough decision but I would hate to miss out since it is the final round. Then it would be hard to choose between a black (for SA Pulse and GMK Laser) or grey case (for SA Carbon and SA Symbiosis).
One thing is for certain though, sign me up for CADR, Spacebars, Cadet, and Choices! Or with any luck a bunch of CADR buyers will start clamoring for an R3 choices kit ;) (hey, a guy can hope!). So excited :D
It's out of the topic for this thread, but CA66 also caught my eyes. I was tinkering the idea to make a keyboard kit to bring back one of Symbolics keyboards, I found CA66 when doing research. Its case has round front and back, straight sides just like Space-Cadet keyboard case(and many IBM old school keyboards' cases). Maybe I would get a CA66 in white color to match the coming Symbiosis keyset, since the Space-Cadet keyboard has a white case. ;D
The white would be amazing!
Also, do you know who the vendor(s) will be for this set?
Post by: petamva on Sat, 08 September 2018, 04:22:37
Post by: EightDiagram on Sat, 08 September 2018, 08:20:36
First world problems! :))
Post by: piercejenkins on Sat, 08 September 2018, 12:51:58
Post by: sgtpopwell on Sat, 08 September 2018, 13:49:21
Post by: otanishock on Sun, 09 September 2018, 04:24:13
Post by: switchnollie on Sun, 09 September 2018, 12:50:29
Post by: enrique.aliaga on Tue, 11 September 2018, 16:52:37
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: cijanzen on Tue, 11 September 2018, 21:45:25
Post by: _ODIN_ on Wed, 12 September 2018, 01:41:26
Intereted in a set as well. Would love to hear a dateme too. I have to prepare my wallet
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 12 September 2018, 04:28:56
The group buy is scheduled to launch in Kono Store at late September or early October. The exact day will be decided a few days ahead, so I will update when we have a specific date. If you want to get update, you could join the waitlist on the corresponding product webpage in Kono Store:
link (https://kono.store/collections/keycap-sets/products/sa-symbiosis-keycaps)
All the feedbacks have been taken in so far, although not every request is fulfilled. Currently we have locked the revision of kits as you could see below. There are a lot of changes since last update:
1. I created a new kit Cadet for Space-Cadet keyboard special legends, and revised the legends of Modifiers kit, NordeUK kit, etc. to reflect this change.
2. I added support to other Ortholinear keyboards, e.g. Preonic and renamed Planck kit to Ortho kit
3. I added more keys to support more keyboards, e.g. added R2 2u BACKSPACE for Pearl, added 3u spacebar for Minila, etc.
4. I revised the profile and layout for Choices kit, so now it could form a 2*2 cluster of hands and a straight column of roman I, II, III, IV for 65% keybards
5. I fine-tuned the vectors of Alphas, Choices, Novelties kits
6. I changed the Novelties enter-key lengend from Symbolics to Symbiosis, since guys in Symbolics company don't like it that way.
7. I changed the color codes from RAC, YCF to RA, YBP. Looking at the color cards from SP, the later ones have deeper colors, closer to what I have in mind and look better for novelties keys since they are brighter.
8. I added the missing R2 Z key for NorDeUK kit, Thanks to hansichen
9. Thanks to Thesiscamper. Now we have nice renders!
Here are all the kits for the coming GB. (https://imgur.com/a/bxPTTrV) I will update them in the first post of this thread. And here are the renders. (https://imgur.com/a/LSglLmQ)
Besides Kono Store, we will have other vendors to proxy orders for different areas: Zfrontier (http://www.zfrontier.com/) for China and Asia, and Mykeyboard (https://mykeyboard.eu/) for EU. Currently Kono Store is working on the prices. More renders are coming.
Please let me know if you have any question or feedback. It's a long way since the start of this IC and now we are finally one step away from the GB. I need to thank a lot of people during this journey(in alphabetic order): Laobao(KP), Oblotzky, packman86, Wei(KBDfans), York Chan and everyone gave his/her support or feedback for this project from GH, DT or anywhere. Special thanks to Andy(&y), astro, Hoq, lanyusea, prod and a lot of members in Chinese keyboard community. A big thanks to xblackdog for his permission and all his support.
Enjoy the renders:
(https://i.imgur.com/Uk9B74x.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/fDRqRxa.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ePvCXrv.png)
Post by: OracleKev on Wed, 12 September 2018, 04:34:20
Post by: lanyusea on Wed, 12 September 2018, 05:20:09
Post by: prod on Wed, 12 September 2018, 05:49:55
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 12 September 2018, 06:01:07
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 12 September 2018, 06:21:56
Is the CADR kit offered with the idea of it being kind of an all-in-one kit for econimical reason?
There are many people who still like flat profile, as you could know from the comments and the poll. So I keep the CADR kit to make them happy. It's not economical reason that leads to this kit. But I think it could be a good reason too? ;D
Post by: Etherealsound on Wed, 12 September 2018, 08:50:27
Post by: FearsomeCubedWarrior on Wed, 12 September 2018, 09:17:59
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 12 September 2018, 09:41:21
Is there any MOQ known yet? I'm in for alphas and 40s, but judging by MD SA Green Screen drop, where 40s didn't make it at all, I'm worried if Kono as a vendor will provide the certain level of publicity to attract enough customers.
I don't know the MOQ for 40s or the final price right now. 50 is the usual MOQ for 40s kit. 25 will do for SP but it's much more expensive. The 40s kit for Symbiosis R2 has a wide coverage and so many keys that it might be expensive. Kono is working on the prices now. And they usually order more after the GB is closed. It seems Andrew(from Kono) is quite confident that every kit is going to happen(so were the previous SA GBs on Kono). I guess you could just order without worry and see what will turn out. :D
Post by: zslane on Wed, 12 September 2018, 12:11:52
Post by: cijanzen on Wed, 12 September 2018, 12:32:18
Oy veh. Another "Space Cadet" set where the color of the hands and roman numeral caps are blue instead of gray (GMK Space Cadet made this same mistake). I was about to give high praise for this set until I saw that. And the yellow keycaps are really out of band for this set as well, IMO. Further evidence that only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly. I'm sure 99% of buyers won't care about that, but it disappoints me. I'm just glad I already have my Round 6 Space Cadet set. :rolleyes:
Hmm I respect your feedback as a very well established and knowledgeable member of the community but did you provide this feedback before things got too finalized? I haven’t looked through the post history to see if you had or not which is why I’m asking. I certainly don’t disagree with you on your critique but it seems a little late? 🤷🏼♂️
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 12 September 2018, 12:51:26
Oy veh. Another "Space Cadet" set where the color of the hands and roman numeral caps are blue instead of gray (GMK Space Cadet made this same mistake). I was about to give high praise for this set until I saw that. And the yellow keycaps are really out of band for this set as well, IMO. Further evidence that only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly. I'm sure 99% of buyers won't care about that, but it disappoints me. I'm just glad I already have my Round 6 Space Cadet set. :rolleyes:
Since most modifiers are blue, it easily turns out that the hands and roman numerals are blue to match the colors. For real tribute, it needs a special keyboard with layout similar to the Space-Cadet keyboard, having two extra columns on left right side to use the gray hands and roman numerals. But, how many people have such a keyboard layout? Do you? And how much tribute do we need if most users just use a regular modern keyboards in 104/87/60... layout? To embrace changes to modern keyboards? Or just stick strictly to what's only exist in the Space-Cadet keyborad? Where is the line in front of which we need to stop?
The yellow keycaps are accent keys, so that anyone don't like it could use all grey and blue keys. I could understand if someone says "There is only blue/grey/cream/black in the original Space-Cadet keyboard, we reject anything else and we don't need the other yellow, red and purple". But the later colors are also important since we try to combine more concepts into the design like Lisp Machine, Programming environment and graphic system, etc.
I don't understand it when you said "Further evidence that only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly." First, I don't think sticking to only what's in Space-Cadet keyboard is the only way to do tribute. IMO, there is no correct or wrong, they are just different ideas and preferences. Second, 7bit did make blue hands and roman numeral keys in his run. And 7bit's runs didn't have Greek front printing legends, Space-Cadet legends like Greek, etc. How to understand only he's doing tribute "correctly" if so?
Post by: dsaf on Wed, 12 September 2018, 15:12:37
...Further evidence that only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly. I'm sure 99% of buyers won't care about that, but it disappoints me...
He managed to produce a set with front-facing prints just like the original had? Matt3o went the extra mile for SA Retro...
Post by: dsaf on Wed, 12 September 2018, 15:13:59
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 12 September 2018, 23:47:23
Oy veh. Another "Space Cadet" set where the color of the hands and roman numeral caps are blue instead of gray (GMK Space Cadet made this same mistake). I was about to give high praise for this set until I saw that. And the yellow keycaps are really out of band for this set as well, IMO. Further evidence that only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly. I'm sure 99% of buyers won't care about that, but it disappoints me. I'm just glad I already have my Round 6 Space Cadet set. :rolleyes:
Hmm I respect your feedback as a very well established and knowledgeable member of the community but did you provide this feedback before things got too finalized? I haven’t looked through the post history to see if you had or not which is why I’m asking. I certainly don’t disagree with you on your critique but it seems a little late? ♂️
If you look through the post, you will find out that zslane made a few comments back to the days when the IC started, and then disappeared for months. During this time, the kit for hands and roman numerals was removed but later re-added in a different style. It's more than 6 months ago this IC started and we had the yellow color accent keys since the very start. And now when we locked the kits right before the GB, zslane said "the yellow keycaps are really out of band". :eek:
Post by: Wetherbee on Thu, 13 September 2018, 00:13:20
This set needs a grey F-row to interest me.
I already have Symbiosis R1 and the all-blue F-row is the only disappointing aspect.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Thu, 13 September 2018, 01:00:40
...Further evidence that only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly. I'm sure 99% of buyers won't care about that, but it disappoints me...
He managed to produce a set with front-facing prints just like the original had? Matt3o went the extra mile for SA Retro...
No. 7bit didn't, as I know so far.
I planned to give a try to add the front-printing Greek legends when I started this IC. But later I dropped this idea due to 1. It seems we don't have enough interest. Front-printing requires more work from SP and leads to higher price. 2. The Greek legends are in free hand writing style, which is not so neat or unified like these APL legends. I sketched out some of these Greek legends and found out they don't looks so nice for front-printing as I thought it would. The PETSCII legends on SA Retro are unified and look nice.
And I also tried to bring the keyboard(or layout) back, tinkering the idea to make a keyboard kit with full setup: PCB, Case/Plate, matching colors, etc. and high similarity to the Symbolics keyboard(Space-Cadet keyboard is one of them) shape and layout. I reached many persons for this idea shared them the full keycaps layout on keyboard or kit configuration like:
[attachimg=1]
But even if I managed to pull all these above, making a meme keyboard with that high similarity to happen in real, I would not call myself "do the tribute correctly" for sure. You know, if you take it down to the microscopic scale, there are always some difference or changes from the original Space-Cadet keyboard: legends, colors, keycap size, etc. It's impossible to make 100% copy for a historical keyboard, you have to live with these dissimilarities.
For example, some of you might have noticed these subtleties in legends, if you look carefully to A legend on the original Space-Cadet keyboard, the horizontal line in the middle is a bit lower than what's in normal font series.
[attachimg=2]
And the A legend in 7bit's R6 is closer to SP's Gorton Modified font. It has higher horizontal line:
[attachimg=3]
If you look closely to the legends I drew for SA Symbiosis, you will notice the A legend is closer to what's in Space-Cadet keyboard, rather than Gorton Modified font:
[attachimg=4]
Some people may like former A legend in Gorton Modified font style, but if you're looking for similarity, or want to stick literally to what's on Space-Cadet keyboard, I think the later one wins. I'm not saying Symbiosis's alphas legends are superior than 7bit's by raising this example. You know, I never bring this up before. Actually I'm fine with either one. I'm just saying, differences and changes are usual. You can't make it 100% loyal to the old Space-Cadet keyboard. And some changes happen on purpose due to the design ideas. I always wish the so called Space-Cadet theme would evolve along the time, with new keyboard, new design, new profile or new idea, rather than it just stays 100% literal to what's on the original keyboard. It's just too bad if someone claims only the literal one are correct, and anything else is not. This is absolutism.
Post by: cijanzen on Thu, 13 September 2018, 02:52:57
...Further evidence that only 7bit cares about doing tribute sets correctly. I'm sure 99% of buyers won't care about that, but it disappoints me...
He managed to produce a set with front-facing prints just like the original had? Matt3o went the extra mile for SA Retro...
No. 7bit didn't, as I know so far.
I planned to give a try to add the front-printing Greek legends when I started this IC. But later I dropped this idea due to 1. It seems we don't have enough interest. Front-printing requires more work from SP and leads to higher price. 2. The Greek legends are in free hand writing style, which is not so neat or unified like these APL legends. I sketched out some of these Greek legends and found out they don't looks so nice for front-printing as I thought it would. The PETSCII legends on SA Retro are unified and look nice.
And I also tried to bring the keyboard(or layout) back, tinkering the idea to make a keyboard kit with full setup: PCB, Case/Plate, matching colors, etc. and high similarity to the Symbolics keyboard(Space-Cadet keyboard is one of them) shape and layout. I reached many persons for this idea shared them the full keycaps layout on keyboard or kit configuration like:
(Attachment Link)
But even if I managed to pull all these above, making a meme keyboard with that high similarity to happen in real, I would not call myself "do the tribute correctly" for sure. You know, if you take it down to the microscopic scale, there are always some difference or changes from the original Space-Cadet keyboard: legends, colors, keycap size, etc. It's impossible to make 100% copy for a historical keyboard, you have to live with these dissimilarities.
For example, some of you might have noticed these subtleties in legends, if you look carefully to A legend on the original Space-Cadet keyboard, the horizontal line in the middle is a bit lower than what's in normal font series.
(Attachment Link)
And the A legend in 7bit's R6 is closer to SP's Gorton Modified font. It has higher horizontal line:
(Attachment Link)
If you look closely to the legends I drew for SA Symbiosis, you will notice the A legend is closer to what's in Space-Cadet keyboard, rather than Gorton Modified font:
(Attachment Link)
Some people may like former A legend in Gorton Modified font style, but if you're looking for similarity, or want to stick literally to what's on Space-Cadet keyboard, I think the later one wins. I'm not saying Symbiosis's alphas legends are superior than 7bit's by raising this example. You know, I never bring this up before. Actually I'm fine with either one. I'm just saying, differences and changes are usual. You can't make it 100% loyal to the old Space-Cadet keyboard. And some changes happen on purpose due to the design ideas. I always wish the so called Space-Cadet theme would evolve along the time, with new keyboard, new design, new profile or new idea, rather than it just stays 100% literal to what's on the original keyboard. It's just too bad if someone claims only the literal one are correct, and anything else is not. This is absolutism.
At the end of the day it’s only one persons criticism. Is it still valid? Sure. It’s possibly not delivered in the best way though. Many others have given feedback that they are on board with what you’ve done here and I think you should be very proud of your work!
I for one will definitely picking up this set so thank you for all the hard work you’ve put into it. I think you’ve struck a fine balance between creating something new and a tribute to the original!
Post by: OracleKev on Thu, 13 September 2018, 03:19:03
At the end of the day it’s only one persons criticism. Is it still valid? Sure. It’s possibly not delivered in the best way though. Many others have given feedback that they are on board with what you’ve done here and I think you should be very proud of your work!
I for one will definitely picking up this set so thank you for all the hard work you’ve put into it. I think you’ve struck a fine balance between creating something new and a tribute to the original!
Well put.
Post by: yap68 on Thu, 13 September 2018, 07:17:33
Have been watching this set from day 1 and really appreciated all the effort you have put on it. Thanks man!
Post by: Taques on Thu, 13 September 2018, 10:21:46
Post by: gbchk on Thu, 13 September 2018, 11:19:54
Post by: mrkevint on Thu, 13 September 2018, 11:26:34
I wouldn't take his criticism too seriously...it sounds like the only thing that would make him happy is an actual original SC keyboard, if he's such a purist. 7bit's caps have just as many inconsistencies as any other "tribute."
I agree... to me, it also reads a little bit salty. Space Cadet will no longer be "exclusive" to people who have 7bit's key sets (R3 Symbiosis notwithstanding).
Thank you for making Space Cadet available to a larger audience. I will definitely be participating!
Post by: LightningXI on Thu, 13 September 2018, 12:34:13
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Post by: Nigolski on Thu, 13 September 2018, 14:36:06
At least we don't have to wait for 3 years to get these.
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:))
Post by: bcbishop on Thu, 13 September 2018, 14:53:32
Opinions are opinions. Everybody's got one, and that's fine. But for me personally? I thank you, hhkbp2, for all of your hard work in making this GB happen. I think in this thread you have proven to be extremely helpful, concerned with making sure the community is happy with the end product, and in general been a solid human being that treats others with respect and thoughtful consideration.
I am beyond thrilled to support you by taking part in this GB.
Post by: helix999 on Thu, 13 September 2018, 15:14:53
I thank you, hhkbp2, for all of your hard work in making this GB happen. I think in this thread you have proven to be extremely helpful, concerned with making sure the community is happy with the end product, and in general been a solid human being that treats others with respect and thoughtful consideration.
Exactly this. I really don't know what's involved in making a GB like this happen but I know it can't be easy. I'm just happy to have the chance to finally own this set. Great work!
Post by: dsaf on Thu, 13 September 2018, 16:13:01
...
As a hopeful but careful NorDeUk buyer I need to ask: how will underfunded kits be handled by MyKeyboard? Will I be able to pull out if a target is not met?
Post by: Lisinge on Thu, 13 September 2018, 16:15:24
Post by: mimalik on Thu, 13 September 2018, 20:20:52
Post by: Taques on Thu, 13 September 2018, 20:24:08
Will they be manufactured by SP or MaxKey?
Signature Plastics
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Fri, 14 September 2018, 07:07:50
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 14 September 2018, 08:39:57
Will they be manufactured by SP or MaxKey?
Signature Plastics
👍🙌🙌
Post by: saucybulgogi on Fri, 14 September 2018, 08:59:45
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Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 14 September 2018, 09:12:02
(https://i.imgur.com/DxRYWx0.png)
If you like to support this project, add it to your signature. Thanks!
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=94288.0][img width=480 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/DxRYWx0.png[/img][/url]
Post by: enrique.aliaga on Fri, 14 September 2018, 13:55:45
I was thinking 60% wouldn’t count, since it would lack the row of blue keys at the top (F keys). Tenkeyless has spacing between blocks of Keycaps, so it’s also far from SC. 1800 has a numpad, which SC doesn’t. So... I think 75% would be the “closest”. Do you guys agree?
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Post by: hhkbp2 on Fri, 14 September 2018, 14:04:24
What do you guys think would be the modern layout that most closely resembles that of the Space Cadet. Excluding Hyper 7, which is obnoxiously big.
I was thinking 60% wouldn’t count, since it would lack the row of blue keys at the top (F keys). Tenkeyless has spacing between blocks of Keycaps, so it’s also far from SC. 1800 has a numpad, which SC doesn’t. So... I think 75% would be the “closest”. Do you guys agree?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just for the layout, maybe Duck TC-V3?
Post by: petamva on Sat, 15 September 2018, 03:52:14
Thank you so much @hhkbp2 for all the trouble you went through for this to come to life!
I would like the mods to be light grey-ish blue but that's my personal preference.
Great work!
Post by: BobCarltheThird on Sat, 15 September 2018, 14:46:57
Post by: mimalik on Mon, 17 September 2018, 09:08:16
Post by: hhkbp2 on Mon, 17 September 2018, 09:18:01
How soon is coming soon? This month or next? Already went for GMK Space Cadet but will buy this as well, and with GMK Carbon R2 in coming months....need another job to sustain this hobby.
Hey, thanks for your support! The group buy is scheduled to launch in Kono Store at late September or early October. The exact day will be decided just a few days ahead. I will update when we have a specific date. If you want to get update to your email, you could join the waitlist on the corresponding product webpage in Kono Store: link (https://kono.store/collections/keycap-sets/products/sa-symbiosis-keycaps).
Post by: _ODIN_ on Sat, 22 September 2018, 03:46:49
Moreover there are alpha coloured spacebars in the small spacebar kit as well.
I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks for making this stunning set a reality.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Sat, 22 September 2018, 04:10:57
Hello guys! First up, I will 100% buy this keycaps set. But I am wondering why there are no alpha coloured spacebars in the spacebars kit. The inclusion of them in the kit would be amazing. I love the alphas and will get them alongside the VIM and NorDe kit but I am not a fan of the modifiers (I just do not like blue that much). Because of this I would have to buy the whole modifier kit for just the spacebars.
Moreover there are alpha coloured spacebars in the small spacebar kit as well.
I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks for making this stunning set a reality.
Thanks for your feedback. There will be gray spacebars kit in the GB.
Post by: _ODIN_ on Sat, 22 September 2018, 04:12:13
Hello guys! First up, I will 100% buy this keycaps set. But I am wondering why there are no alpha coloured spacebars in the spacebars kit. The inclusion of them in the kit would be amazing. I love the alphas and will get them alongside the VIM and NorDe kit but I am not a fan of the modifiers (I just do not like blue that much). Because of this I would have to buy the whole modifier kit for just the spacebars.Amazing :thumb:
Moreover there are alpha coloured spacebars in the small spacebar kit as well.
I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks for making this stunning set a reality.
Thanks for your feedback. There will be gray spacebars kit in the GB.
Post by: fouras on Tue, 25 September 2018, 09:37:50
Could you add the 1u backslash to the alphas as well? Currently, someone who just wants those is forced to buy the non-standard kit for one cap.Hello guys! First up, I will 100% buy this keycaps set. But I am wondering why there are no alpha coloured spacebars in the spacebars kit. The inclusion of them in the kit would be amazing. I love the alphas and will get them alongside the VIM and NorDe kit but I am not a fan of the modifiers (I just do not like blue that much). Because of this I would have to buy the whole modifier kit for just the spacebars.
Moreover there are alpha coloured spacebars in the small spacebar kit as well.
I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks for making this stunning set a reality.
Thanks for your feedback. There will be gray spacebars kit in the GB.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 25 September 2018, 09:41:46
Could you add the 1u backslash to the alphas as well? Currently, someone who just wants those is forced to buy the non-standard kit for one cap.
This change was done already, like the gray spacebars. The R1 1u backslash key is moved from Non-standard kit to Alphas kit.
Post by: Etherealsound on Tue, 25 September 2018, 10:03:26
Post by: hhkbp2 on Tue, 25 September 2018, 10:56:32
Any update on the exact date this run will be opening?
No yet.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 26 September 2018, 01:47:53
There are a few changes since the last update when we soft-locked the kits. Feedbacks came from people of GH, Reddit and other places, and I listened to make changes:
- Moved R1 1u backslash from Non-standard kit to Alphas kit
- Added Gray Choices kit
- Added Gray Spacebars kit and Yellow Spacebars kit
- Moved R1 DEL, END, PAGEDOWN from Modifiers to Non-standard kit
- Revised some legends on Ergodox kit for consistency
The link to all latest kits (https://imgur.com/a/bxPTTrV)
Thank you all for the support and feedbacks. I think all feedbacks were taken in although not every request was fulfilled. Thank Kono Store to work with me with those changes even after we locked the kits. The GB is about to begin, enjoy!
Post by: ihalatch on Wed, 26 September 2018, 02:08:11
Just got message from Kono Store that the GB will launch at 830 am PST this Wednesday, September 26.
There are a few changes since the last update when we soft-locked the kits. Feedbacks came from people of GH, Reddit and other places, and I listened to make changes:
- Moved R1 1u backslash from Non-standard kit to Alphas kit
- Added Gray Choices kit
- Added Gray Spacebars kit and Yellow Spacebars kit
- Moved R1 DEL, END, PAGEDOWN from Modifiers to Non-standard kit
- Revised some legends on Ergodox kit for consistency
The link to all latest kits (https://imgur.com/a/bxPTTrV)
Thank you all for the support and feedbacks. I think all feedbacks were taken in although not every request was fulfilled. Thank Kono Store to work with me with those changes even after we locked the kits. The GB is about to begin, enjoy!
How long will the GB last? Will we have a month? I'll need some time to save some money to buy a few kits :)
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 26 September 2018, 02:25:35
How long will the GB last? Will we have a month? I'll need some time to save some money to buy a few kits :)
Sorry, I forgot to mention that. The GB will last for a month usually.
Post by: wtoe on Wed, 26 September 2018, 06:49:32
Edit: It looks like the CADR set is in the imgur gallery of the finalized kits, but it's not up in the store?
Post by: Evilocity on Wed, 26 September 2018, 08:29:05
Post by: Ensaum on Wed, 26 September 2018, 08:37:46
Post by: hervuli on Wed, 26 September 2018, 09:45:24
Yesssssss thank you for making this happen so quickly!
Edit: It looks like the CADR set is in the imgur gallery of the finalized kits, but it's not up in the store?
Seconding this question, mostly interested uniform profile and would mainly be in for CADR!
Post by: cijanzen on Wed, 26 September 2018, 09:53:45
Post by: grizzly_teddy on Wed, 26 September 2018, 10:52:28
Post by: vodan on Wed, 26 September 2018, 11:29:44
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 26 September 2018, 12:22:48
What is the ETA for ship date?
When does it ship?
Thanks for asking. The ETA info was added.
What's up with the pricing on Cadet? $44 for 8 caps seems high even for SA, especially when the entire alphas kit is cheaper.
What's up with the pricing on Cadet? $44 for 8 caps seems high even for SA, especially when the entire alphas kit is cheaper.
I think it's a mistake. I have told guys in Kono Store to double check this. It should be fixed soon.
Yesssssss thank you for making this happen so quickly!
Edit: It looks like the CADR set is in the imgur gallery of the finalized kits, but it's not up in the store?
Seconding this question, mostly interested uniform profile and would mainly be in for CADR!
I talked to Kono Store for this. It's just because the price of CADR kit is higher than we expected so they would like to talk to me before make it online. It will be added soon. The price at 50 MOQ is high than I expected indeed. Please place your order to make it happen. Thanks!
The only potential problem I foresee is that with so many choices, some of the kits may not hit MOQ. For example between blue and grey choices kit. Can you clarify how that will be handled? Let’s say I order grey choices kit and it doesn’t hit MOQ but the blue one does. Will I be able to switch my order to the blue choices kit?
You're able to change your order anytime during the GB, no matter what reason it is. But I don't think the reason will be color switching due to MOQ issue. Since there are many people asking for gray choices kit, the prices for them are not expensive, and the prices for them don't change a lot from 15 - 250, if any choices kit fails MOQ, it's quite easy for Kono Store to buy the rest to make it to a low, suitable MOQ. Take a big step back, if no one buy these choices kit at all, e.g. the final sold number is just 1 or 2, then we would just cancel them before the GB ends. In this case we will make sure you have the time(a few days maybe) to change your order as you like.
From the design point of view, there are usually voices saying the choices are not enough rather than too many. It's NOT practical to force people who don't like blue choices kit to buy it by not providing gray choices kit, take zslane for example. ;D We didn't have the gray choice kit just because no one reached me and gave feedback saying they needed it, and I would like to keep the total kit number small. And I don't think it will cause the blue choices kit fail to reach its MOQ because some people come in and buy gray choices kit. IMO, well it's not a zero-sum game, it's more positive way to think that, now we have more people who like either color happy, joining in the game.
When will this be reflected on zFrontier? Very interested!
It will present in zFrontier in a day or two.
Post by: cijanzen on Wed, 26 September 2018, 12:30:59
The only potential problem I foresee is that with so many choices, some of the kits may not hit MOQ. For example between blue and grey choices kit. Can you clarify how that will be handled? Let’s say I order grey choices kit and it doesn’t hit MOQ but the blue one does. Will I be able to switch my order to the blue choices kit?
You're able to change your order anytime during the GB, no matter what reason it is. But I don't think the reason will be color switching due to MOQ issue. Since there are many people asking for gray choices kit, the prices for them are not expensive, and the prices for them don't change a lot from 15 - 250, if any choices kit fails MOQ, it's quite easy for Kono Store to buy the rest to make it to a low, suitable MOQ. Take a big step back, if no one buy these choices kit at at, e.g. the final sold number is just 1 or 2, then we would just cancel them before the GB ends. In this case we will make sure you have the time(a few days maybe) to change your order as you like.
From the design point of view, there are usually voices saying the choices are not enough rather than too many. It's NOT practical to force people who don't like blue choices kit to buy it by not providing gray choices kit, take zslane for example. ;D We didn't have the gray choice kit just because no one reached me and gave feedback saying they needed it, and I would like to keep the total kit number small. And I don't think it will cause the blue choices kit fail to reach its MOQ because some people come in and buy gray choices kit. IMO, well it's not a zero-sum game, it's more positive way to think that, now we have more people who like either color happy, joining in the game.
Thank you for the clarification. I just wanted to know how this would be handled in the event that the issue came up and you answered that beautifully. Definitely hope you didn’t take my comment the wrong way! I’m very excited to have all of these options and I’m very glad that the grey choices ended up making it into the gb!
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Post by: _ODIN_ on Wed, 26 September 2018, 12:32:14
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 26 September 2018, 12:39:06
Thank you for the clarification. I just wanted to know how this would be handled in the event that the issue came up and you answered that beautifully. Definitely hope you didn’t take my comment the wrong way! I’m very excited to have all of these options and I’m very glad that the grey choices ended up making it into the gb!
No problem at all. I guess I just said a bit more so as to make you feel safe to place your order. ;D
Thanks for your support!
Post by: cijanzen on Wed, 26 September 2018, 12:40:13
Thank you for the clarification. I just wanted to know how this would be handled in the event that the issue came up and you answered that beautifully. Definitely hope you didn’t take my comment the wrong way! I’m very excited to have all of these options and I’m very glad that the grey choices ended up making it into the gb!
No problem at all. I guess I just said a bit more so as to make you feel safe to place your order. ;D
Thanks for your support!
I’m definitely in! Hoping to pair this with VoC run by Novelkeys.
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 26 September 2018, 12:42:40
Is it better/ intended for me as a European to buy from zFrontier?
Emm... I have no idea why you raised this question. How about buying via our EU proxy Mykeyboard? Anyone could share his/her experience?
Post by: hhkbp2 on Wed, 26 September 2018, 12:55:25
GB thread is here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97492.0)