Author Topic: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions  (Read 24201 times)

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Offline keyjay

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Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 00:08:10 »
Got my new Type Heaven a few days ago from EK via Amazon.

I've been using Leopold and WASD boards with browns the past couple years and love them. I type -- no gaming or coding. Topre has always called me and the new Type Heaven has the combination of specs I've been waiting for: 45g-uniform and full-sized are the main things, and secondarily I prefer the black board over white (which I couldn't get before because RealForce has black lettering on black keys and I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

So...

Well, I only used it for all of an hour so far, but so far I like it. I have a feeling it will be my new favorite board. The only thing I'm not thrilled about is the noisy spacebar. I looked around the forum and it seems mods are not simple for quieting it. What about at least just popping it off and putting foam inside of it? I did that with the boards I have with browns and it seemed to help considerably. I guess I'll have to ask Brian if the spacebar on the Type Heaven can be just popped off and popped back on like with the Leopold.

I'm curious about how different a RealForce might feel. I've never owned one (yet). The Type Heaven has the lower quality of keycap material from what I've read, and lower quality of lettering. Can someone please give me an idea of how much the material would matter in terms of actual "feel"? I realize the other issue is wear, of course, which will matter to me if it's an issue. On the WASD browns board I got, the laser-etched key caps had to be replaced twice so far due to the lettering wearing off, and the keycaps and lettering on this Type Heaven look identical in terms of coloring of the keycaps and the lettering. (Maybe the textured surface of the keycaps on the Type Heaven will slow down that wearing process a bit.)

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be worth trying a "RealForce" 45g-uniform (or maybe silent) in white and separate numpad and seeing if the keys just feel more solid enough to justify going that route instead. Especially if I would be avoiding an issue with lettering soon.

As to sound, the "thock" of the keys is pretty cool and satisfying to me so far. I'd say it's about the same noise level as the browns, more or less. Maybe a bit less. Maybe the spacebar sound will diminish as I get used to the board more (or get used to the sound more).

I did find that I was typing away and not even thinking about the keys, which is pretty impressive given it was within the first hour of use and my muscle memory is tailored to the browns. Very similar feel and I dare say I think I'll like the Topres better (not to mention everything I've read).

I'm looking forward to getting back to the office just to use it. This is partly due to the new toy appeal but I think really also partly due to the feel. I like it.

One thing that did seem to be a minor issue on initial use was that I seemed to be hitting the sides of keys when moving around, as if these keys were taller than the browns or, rather, as if there was more travel here. It's odd because I definitely felt at times that there may be a bit more travel here than my browns -- which have o-rings on them (which I hugely prefer compared to using the browns without o-rings, as much because of feel as sound dampening) -- but then I did the math and the o-rings on my browns only reduce the travel by a little under 4% and otherwise the travel should be identical on both boards: 4mm.

I'm sure in no time I'll get used to the nuances of it and will be entirely at home with it.

I'll try to remember to report back.


« Last Edit: Fri, 19 July 2013, 00:26:00 by keyjay »

Offline morpheus

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 05:10:47 »
Thanks for your review!

I love Topre, to me it's the pinnacle of key switches. But to each his own I guess.
I think I will get it when I have the money, as I slowly expunge myself of cherry boards.

Offline Ultratude

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:18:21 »
Nice review. I think I should get one.

Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:43:10 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

Offline Poom

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 06:48:29 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

lol, this might sounds mean but I completely agreed.  :p

touch typing should be a prerequisite of joining Geekhack, its a keyboard enthusiasts community afterall. but i doubt Keyjay cant touch type, maybe for symbols and stuff.

but... if the legends are beautiful especially thouse double shot caps im all for legends otherwise blank all the way!

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 07:19:43 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

lol, this might sounds mean but I completely agreed.  :p

touch typing should be a prerequisite of joining Geekhack
, its a keyboard enthusiasts community afterall. but i doubt Keyjay cant touch type, maybe for symbols and stuff.

but... if the legends are beautiful especially thouse double shot caps im all for legends otherwise blank all the way!

Not all of us 'type' that much  :-X

More


Nice write up and it's good to see someone get one of these boards and try it out. Hopefully a few more will take the plunge and we can get an even more opinions on this board.  8)

Offline SeriouSSpotS

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 07:24:43 »
Interesting review, thanks for posting ^-^
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Offline nightsnack

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 10:50:56 »
There is another option. You can get the Realforce 104UB-DK that's exclusive to Ducky. It seems to fit your requirements: full size, 45g uniform, black case, clear lettering on PBT caps which shouldn't wear out any time soon (though these keys are grey and white, not black).

You will need someone from Taiwan or Hong Kong to forward it to you though. It went on sale today. Here's a review of the board:

http://iqmore.tw/topre-realforce-104ub-dk-capacitive-keyboard-review

Offline oTurtlez

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 11:07:51 »
There is another option. You can get the Realforce 104UB-DK that's exclusive to Ducky. It seems to fit your requirements: full size, 45g uniform, black case, clear lettering on PBT caps which shouldn't wear out any time soon (though these keys are grey and white, not black).

You will need someone from Taiwan or Hong Kong to forward it to you though. It went on sale today. Here's a review of the board:

http://iqmore.tw/topre-realforce-104ub-dk-capacitive-keyboard-review

wat.

And is the definition of touch typing being able to type without looking at the keys or does it have to do with the proper way of using the home row and everything? If it's the latter, shoot me now haha.
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Offline nightsnack

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 11:19:30 »
It's a bit like how only Elitekeyboards has some exclusive models I think. The DK probably stands for Ducky.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 11:20:50 »
There is another option. You can get the Realforce 104UB-DK that's exclusive to Ducky. It seems to fit your requirements: full size, 45g uniform, black case, clear lettering on PBT caps which shouldn't wear out any time soon (though these keys are grey and white, not black).

You will need someone from Taiwan or Hong Kong to forward it to you though. It went on sale today. Here's a review of the board:

http://iqmore.tw/topre-realforce-104ub-dk-capacitive-keyboard-review

I want one of these ^^

Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 12:32:23 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

In the spirit in which I'm assuming your post was written, which is "We all know I'm being light-hearted and friendly even though I'm overtly coming off like an arrogant piece of work"...

I would gladly accept a challenge with you as to touch-typing speed and accuracy without looking at the keys using normal words and punctuation. What does the winner get? The right to ban the other person from low-hitting, sarcastic posts on geekhack for a year?

Careful what you wish for.

I type for business reasons. My typing involves more than 95% words (maybe 98-99%). The rest is both numbers and symbols, and when I use them it's usually for financial purposes like credit cards or financials for investors and such. Accuracy matters. I'm sure if I made a project of it I could memorize all of that, naturally, but it's never been a priority.

I've looked into this, and have even discussed this specific question with Brian of EK. It seems that most business users who require accuracy with numbers and who are not coders or data-entry people using numbers and symbols all day want to be able to see the lettering to ensure their accuracy. And while any touch-typist can certainly learn to memorize the entire board, and does so when they have to or decide to, it takes quite a bit of time and effort. And since I'm guessing I've been touch-typing far longer than you've been posting annoying posts on forums, it would be a bit of a new learning process for me.

Not to mention that even if I was willing to accept black lettering on a black keyboard there is still no board with Topres that I'm aware of that has 45g-uniform keys in a full-sized layout anyway, which was spelled out in my OP as my more dominant priorities (for those who read as well as they type).

But I have to say, your post did inspire me. I think I'm gonna start practicing to touch-type without ever looking at any keys because, well, frankly, I want to be more like you. And maybe then we can have that speed challenge one day that's not limited to text, and I can get you banned from the forum altogether.

In closing, I want reiterate that of course this is all being said in good fun. I like to think I'm a bit more mature and evolved than someone who would write those kinds of derogatory things to a fellow forum member and not be just joking.

Can I go now?  ;D

« Last Edit: Fri, 19 July 2013, 23:44:48 by keyjay »

Offline eth0s

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 12:42:38 »

I'm curious about how different a RealForce might feel. I've never owned one (yet). The Type Heaven has the lower quality of keycap material from what I've read, and lower quality of lettering. Can someone please give me an idea of how much the material would matter in terms of actual "feel"? I realize the other issue is wear, of course, which will matter to me if it's an issue. On the WASD browns board I got, the laser-etched key caps had to be replaced twice so far due to the lettering wearing off, and the keycaps and lettering on this Type Heaven look identical in terms of coloring of the keycaps and the lettering. (Maybe the textured surface of the keycaps on the Type Heaven will slow down that wearing process a bit.)


The ABS keycaps on that Type Heaven are softer and more prone to shine than the PBT keycaps found on the RealForce.  Under sustained heavy use, those ABS keycaps could shine up in as quickly as one month or even less time.  And the legends will definitely wear off, but it will take a bit more time (6 months to a year?).  However, as for the feeling on one's fingertips, many people (including me) actually prefer the softer feeling of ABS plastic, but only when the ABS is new.  After it becomes shiny, ABS has a greasy feeling that never goes away, even if you wash your keycaps with soap and water.  I don't know where that greasy feeling comes from, it must be a trick that occurs in the human brain when the brain analyzes the stimuli recorded by finger tips which are pressing on smooth ABS plastic.  But then again, there are a few people who actually like that greasy feeling of shiny ABS keycaps.  The greasy feeling of shiny ABS is the reason most people prefer the rougher (and harder) surface of the PBT keycaps like the ones found on the RealForce, HHKB Pro 2, and Leo FC660C (and of course they prefer the durability of the dye subbed legends as well).  The dye subbed legends will virtually never wear off.  So PBT is a bit more expensive, and is certainly more durable than ABS.  So in that respect it's a "better" plastic than ABS.  But ABS is nonetheless a perfectly respectable plastic for keycaps, unless you really hate shiny keycaps, as some people do.  However, dye subbed legends are much more expensive, and are far superior to pad printed legends.
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Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:10:50 »

I'm curious about how different a RealForce might feel. I've never owned one (yet). The Type Heaven has the lower quality of keycap material from what I've read, and lower quality of lettering. Can someone please give me an idea of how much the material would matter in terms of actual "feel"? I realize the other issue is wear, of course, which will matter to me if it's an issue. On the WASD browns board I got, the laser-etched key caps had to be replaced twice so far due to the lettering wearing off, and the keycaps and lettering on this Type Heaven look identical in terms of coloring of the keycaps and the lettering. (Maybe the textured surface of the keycaps on the Type Heaven will slow down that wearing process a bit.)


The ABS keycaps on that Type Heaven are softer and more prone to shine than the PBT keycaps found on the RealForce.  Under sustained heavy use, those ABS keycaps could shine up in as quickly as one month or even less time.  And the legends will definitely wear off, but it will take a bit more time (6 months to a year?).  However, as for the feeling on one's fingertips, many people (including me) actually prefer the softer feeling of ABS plastic, but only when the ABS is new.  After it becomes shiny, ABS has a greasy feeling that never goes away, even if you wash your keycaps with soap and water.  I don't know where that greasy feeling comes from, it must be a trick that occurs in the human brain when the brain analyzes the stimuli recorded by finger tips which are pressing on smooth ABS plastic.  But then again, there are a few people who actually like that greasy feeling of shiny ABS keycaps.  The greasy feeling of shiny ABS is the reason most people prefer the rougher (and harder) surface of the PBT keycaps like the ones found on the RealForce, HHKB Pro 2, and Leo FC660C (and of course they prefer the durability of the dye subbed legends as well).  The dye subbed legends will virtually never wear off.  So PBT is a bit more expensive, and is certainly more durable than ABS.  So in that respect it's a "better" plastic than ABS.  But ABS is nonetheless a perfectly respectable plastic for keycaps, unless you really hate shiny keycaps, as some people do.  However, dye subbed legends are much more expensive, and are far superior to pad printed legends.


I hugely appreciate this!

From what I understand, even RealForce boards use ABS plastic for the spacebar (I assume that even goes for that one from Tokyo). But I’m sure they’re at least easily replaceable (I assume they must be).
 
And I assume the Leopold and WASD browns boards I have use ABS plastic for the keys, at least for the spacebars, giving me an idea of what to expect for developing that shine.

I don't know how soon they'll offer replacement sets of keycaps for the Type Heaven, but it seems it's going to be required due to the lettering wearing off in time.

Now I know to at least "consider" a RealForce sometime in the near future. I spent so much time replacing the laser-etched keycaps on my WASD board -- two times in two years -- that it's too expensive in terms of time alone.

Thanks!



Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:20:08 »
There is another option. You can get the Realforce 104UB-DK that's exclusive to Ducky. It seems to fit your requirements: full size, 45g uniform, black case, clear lettering on PBT caps which shouldn't wear out any time soon (though these keys are grey and white, not black).

You will need someone from Taiwan or Hong Kong to forward it to you though. It went on sale today. Here's a review of the board:

http://iqmore.tw/topre-realforce-104ub-dk-capacitive-keyboard-review

Wow! Made to order... almost. Keycap color is the only thing I would prefer to see different, but other than that...

Gotta give them credit for one thorough description of a product on a website! I might buy for that reason alone.

It seems to be the identical layout and lettering that I’d get on a full-sized board from EK, so that’s good.

Humph. Decisions, decisions. A RealForce TKL 45g-uniform white with black lettering from EK with a separate matching numpad (which happens to also be 45g-uniform in white with black lettering), or get this with varied colors in a full-sized layout sent from Japan? (I do have people who can send it to me.)

I have to say that, per the preceding post on keycap material and lettering, I will very likely be “upgrading” from the Type Heaven to a RealForce before too long for that reason alone.



Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:21:35 »
As I mentioned in the OP, I can't compare build quality between the Type Heaven and a RealForce since I've never had a RealForce, but I can say -- and should have said in the OP -- that the build quality of the Type Heaven seems quite solid and seems comparable to the Leopold. In fact, the overall weight of the two boards seems about the same when holding them in my hands (I was tempted to weigh them but how much would that really tell us).


Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:37:23 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

In the spirit in which I'm assuming your post was written, which is "We all know I'm being light-hearted and friendly even though I'm overtly coming off like an arrogant piece of work"...

I would gladly accept a challenge with you as to touch-typing speed and accuracy without looking at the keys using normal words and punctuation. What does the winner get? The right the ban the other person from low-hitting, sarcastic posts on geekhack for a year?

Careful what you wish for.

I type for business reasons. My typing involves more than 95% words (maybe 98-99%). The rest is both numbers and symbols, and when I use them it's usually for financial purposes like credit cards or financials for investors and such. Accuracy matters. I'm sure if I made a project of it I could memorize all of that, naturally, but it's never been a priority.

I've looked into this, and have even discussed this specific question with Brian of EK. It seems that most business users who require accuracy with numbers and who are not coders or data-entry people using numbers and symbols all day want to be able to see the lettering to ensure their accuracy. And while any touch-typist can certainly learn to memorize the entire board, and does so when they have to or decide to, it takes quite a bit of time and effort. And since I'm guessing I've been touch-typing far longer than you've been posting annoying posts on forums, it would be a bit of a new learning process for me.

Not to mention that even if I was willing to accept black lettering on a black keyboard there is still no board with Topres that I'm aware of that has 45g-uniform keys in a full-sized layout anyway, which was spelled out in my OP as my more dominant priorities (for those who read as well as they type).

But I have to say, your post did inspire me. I think I'm gonna start practicing to touch-type without ever looking at any keys because, well, frankly, I want to be more like you. And maybe then we can have that speed challenge one day that's not limited to text, and I can get you banned from the forum altogether.

In closing, I want reiterate that of course this is all being said in good fun. I like to think I'm a bit more mature and evolved than someone who would write those kinds of derogatory things to a fellow forum member and not be just joking.

Can I go now?  ;D

You would be shocked with how many people come on here demanding backlit keys and stupid stuff because they can't touch type, despite being on a keyboard enthusiasts forum (and can't operate a lamp apparently). These people need to have someone tell them how stupid it is to get nice keyboards and never learn how to use them halfway right. I was one of them (not the backlit, just the not touch typing). I've only fairly recently (couple months) learned, so my speed isn't great, but I have the whole number row and some of the symbols down, on top of the letters of course. It wasn't even mildly difficult (I should note the edox made the numbers MUCH eaiser). Now you obviously don't fall into this group if you touch type, especially as part of a job and as such aren't the target audience for my rants. I have nothing against printed keycaps (I don't use them only because I use colemak), just against using them as a substitute for proper typing.

As for professionals working with numbers, anyone seriously into data entry can enter numbers with insane accuracy without looking faster than I can enter random characters. And the fastest, most accurate, people in the typing industry DO use blank keys, very few steno machines I've seen have print. Neither of us are that seriously into it though I'm sure.

I would like to note this is typed on my phone keyboard, so typos are actually pretty likely, as funny as they are in the context of this rant.

Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:47:01 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

In the spirit in which I'm assuming your post was written, which is "We all know I'm being light-hearted and friendly even though I'm overtly coming off like an arrogant piece of work"...

I would gladly accept a challenge with you as to touch-typing speed and accuracy without looking at the keys using normal words and punctuation. What does the winner get? The right the ban the other person from low-hitting, sarcastic posts on geekhack for a year?

Careful what you wish for.

I type for business reasons. My typing involves more than 95% words (maybe 98-99%). The rest is both numbers and symbols, and when I use them it's usually for financial purposes like credit cards or financials for investors and such. Accuracy matters. I'm sure if I made a project of it I could memorize all of that, naturally, but it's never been a priority.

I've looked into this, and have even discussed this specific question with Brian of EK. It seems that most business users who require accuracy with numbers and who are not coders or data-entry people using numbers and symbols all day want to be able to see the lettering to ensure their accuracy. And while any touch-typist can certainly learn to memorize the entire board, and does so when they have to or decide to, it takes quite a bit of time and effort. And since I'm guessing I've been touch-typing far longer than you've been posting annoying posts on forums, it would be a bit of a new learning process for me.

Not to mention that even if I was willing to accept black lettering on a black keyboard there is still no board with Topres that I'm aware of that has 45g-uniform keys in a full-sized layout anyway, which was spelled out in my OP as my more dominant priorities (for those who read as well as they type).

But I have to say, your post did inspire me. I think I'm gonna start practicing to touch-type without ever looking at any keys because, well, frankly, I want to be more like you. And maybe then we can have that speed challenge one day that's not limited to text, and I can get you banned from the forum altogether.

In closing, I want reiterate that of course this is all being said in good fun. I like to think I'm a bit more mature and evolved than someone who would write those kinds of derogatory things to a fellow forum member and not be just joking.

Can I go now?  ;D

You would be shocked with how many people come on here demanding backlit keys and stupid stuff because they can't touch type, despite being on a keyboard enthusiasts forum (and can't operate a lamp apparently). These people need to have someone tell them how stupid it is to get nice keyboards and never learn how to use them halfway right. I was one of them (not the backlit, just the not touch typing). I've only fairly recently (couple months) learned, so my speed isn't great, but I have the whole number row and some of the symbols down, on top of the letters of course. It wasn't even mildly difficult (I should note the edox made the numbers MUCH eaiser). Now you obviously don't fall into this group if you touch type, especially as part of a job and as such aren't the target audience for my rants. I have nothing against printed keycaps (I don't use them only because I use colemak), just against using them as a substitute for proper typing.

As for professionals working with numbers, anyone seriously into data entry can enter numbers with insane accuracy without looking faster than I can enter random characters. And the fastest, most accurate, people in the typing industry DO use blank keys, very few steno machines I've seen have print. Neither of us are that seriously into it though I'm sure.

I would like to note this is typed on my phone keyboard, so typos are actually pretty likely, as funny as they are in the context of this rant.

Congratulations on having recently learned to touch-type. A learning process like that is quite an expansive experience, not only for the direct benefit of the new skill but also the overall enhancement process in general.

I'm in the category well below a data-entry professional, which probably puts me in a big group of people who touch-type but aren't ready to go without lettering -- and never had the impetus to learn how.

Besides, in my case, as I'm sure is the case with virtually all businesspeople who need others to do things on their computers sometimes (setup, backup, etc, etc), a keyboard without lettering is just out of the question.


Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 14:33:43 »
Besides, in my case, as I'm sure is the case with virtually all businesspeople who need others to do things on their computers sometimes (setup, backup, etc, etc), a keyboard without lettering is just out of the question.
Though you could be one of the very few cases where the IT guys have trouble using your setup, and not due to stupid configuration or viruses.

Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 22:58:43 »

I'm curious about how different a RealForce might feel. I've never owned one (yet). The Type Heaven has the lower quality of keycap material from what I've read, and lower quality of lettering. Can someone please give me an idea of how much the material would matter in terms of actual "feel"? I realize the other issue is wear, of course, which will matter to me if it's an issue. On the WASD browns board I got, the laser-etched key caps had to be replaced twice so far due to the lettering wearing off, and the keycaps and lettering on this Type Heaven look identical in terms of coloring of the keycaps and the lettering. (Maybe the textured surface of the keycaps on the Type Heaven will slow down that wearing process a bit.)


The ABS keycaps on that Type Heaven are softer and more prone to shine than the PBT keycaps found on the RealForce.  Under sustained heavy use, those ABS keycaps could shine up in as quickly as one month or even less time.  And the legends will definitely wear off, but it will take a bit more time (6 months to a year?).  However, as for the feeling on one's fingertips, many people (including me) actually prefer the softer feeling of ABS plastic, but only when the ABS is new.  After it becomes shiny, ABS has a greasy feeling that never goes away, even if you wash your keycaps with soap and water.  I don't know where that greasy feeling comes from, it must be a trick that occurs in the human brain when the brain analyzes the stimuli recorded by finger tips which are pressing on smooth ABS plastic.  But then again, there are a few people who actually like that greasy feeling of shiny ABS keycaps.  The greasy feeling of shiny ABS is the reason most people prefer the rougher (and harder) surface of the PBT keycaps like the ones found on the RealForce, HHKB Pro 2, and Leo FC660C (and of course they prefer the durability of the dye subbed legends as well).  The dye subbed legends will virtually never wear off.  So PBT is a bit more expensive, and is certainly more durable than ABS.  So in that respect it's a "better" plastic than ABS.  But ABS is nonetheless a perfectly respectable plastic for keycaps, unless you really hate shiny keycaps, as some people do.  However, dye subbed legends are much more expensive, and are far superior to pad printed legends.


I should point out that the keycaps on the Type Heaven have rough surfaces, which are apparently the same texture as on a RealForce (I did get samples of a couple of RealForce keycaps once, and they feel about the same with respect to the rough texture on the surface).

It seems plausible this "might" slow down the wearing off of the legends and the shining up of the surfaces. Time will tell.

By the way, I noticed a two-year-old post on the KeyboardLover site where the author says he prefers the feel of ABS keys (with double-shot) and believes ABS is considered more durable than PBT in that it's less prone to cracking: http://www.keyboardlover.com/keycaps.php





Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 19 July 2013, 23:38:21 »
So, here's a question. Given that the surface of the keys on the Type Heaven is rough, and given that the PBT keycaps on RealForce boards have a rough surface, and given that I have not seen any spec one way or the other as to whether the keycaps on the Type Heaven are ABS or PBT (and just assumed based on comments in another thread where it was speculated that ABS keys account for the lower price of the Type Heaven compared to RealForce boards), are we sure the keycaps on the Type Heaven are ABS and not PBT.

Someone should ask Brian.

I think I'll do that.

Of course, a little dab of acetone on a Q-Tip inside a key will tell also. I may do that when I'm back at the office.

« Last Edit: Fri, 19 July 2013, 23:47:33 by keyjay »

Offline 002

  • Posts: 192
  • Topre Enthusiast
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 03:12:16 »
They are definitely ABS

Offline keyjay

  • Thread Starter
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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 11:18:26 »
They are definitely ABS

Okay. That sounds official enough to me.

Well, hopefully the rough texture on the surface will slow down the wearing off of the lasered legends and the shining up of the surfaces enough to be meaningful.

Who knows. It might make a big difference. Then again, given that it's ABS, that rough surface could become not so rough pretty quickly. But maybe not. Time will tell.

Hopefully there will be replacement sets of keycaps available soon. It seems essential. (And hopefully they're pretty easy to change out -- and are reasonably priced.)

All in all, it seems it's a pretty sweet keyboard. In fact, other than the concern about the legends and keycap surfaces, and maybe wanting to at least muffle the spacebar a little (still waiting to find out if I can easily pop it off to put some foam inside of it), this is pretty much the ideal keyboard for my preferences, at least on paper -- meaning I'm assuming I'll like it more and more the more I use it and I have no reason to think otherwise.

I'd probably prefer a silent if all things were equal, but not enough to forfeit the 45g-uniform full-sized layout and the coloring.





Offline meiosis

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 20 July 2013, 21:27:16 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

In the spirit in which I'm assuming your post was written, which is "We all know I'm being light-hearted and friendly even though I'm overtly coming off like an arrogant piece of work"...

I would gladly accept a challenge with you as to touch-typing speed and accuracy without looking at the keys using normal words and punctuation. What does the winner get? The right to ban the other person from low-hitting, sarcastic posts on geekhack for a year?

Careful what you wish for.

I type for business reasons. My typing involves more than 95% words (maybe 98-99%). The rest is both numbers and symbols, and when I use them it's usually for financial purposes like credit cards or financials for investors and such. Accuracy matters. I'm sure if I made a project of it I could memorize all of that, naturally, but it's never been a priority.

I've looked into this, and have even discussed this specific question with Brian of EK. It seems that most business users who require accuracy with numbers and who are not coders or data-entry people using numbers and symbols all day want to be able to see the lettering to ensure their accuracy. And while any touch-typist can certainly learn to memorize the entire board, and does so when they have to or decide to, it takes quite a bit of time and effort. And since I'm guessing I've been touch-typing far longer than you've been posting annoying posts on forums, it would be a bit of a new learning process for me.

Not to mention that even if I was willing to accept black lettering on a black keyboard there is still no board with Topres that I'm aware of that has 45g-uniform keys in a full-sized layout anyway, which was spelled out in my OP as my more dominant priorities (for those who read as well as they type).

But I have to say, your post did inspire me. I think I'm gonna start practicing to touch-type without ever looking at any keys because, well, frankly, I want to be more like you. And maybe then we can have that speed challenge one day that's not limited to text, and I can get you banned from the forum altogether.

In closing, I want reiterate that of course this is all being said in good fun. I like to think I'm a bit more mature and evolved than someone who would write those kinds of derogatory things to a fellow forum member and not be just joking.

Can I go now?  ;D

I just want to note that challenging someone to a typing war is not mature at the very least. Although I agree"accuracy" is important in the business sense and it is better to be safe than sorry.

Before you can ask for reiteration, do rationalize to me how challenging someone to a typing battle with internet points at stake is anything close to the "superior being" you are attempting to portray yourself as.

Sorry bout that ^^. I just find condescending tones quite unneeded especially since he was just saying you should know how to touch type, and that most people do since overall it does help efficiency by quite a bit.

I think thick ABS may be better than PBT honestly, but it's best to try out both.
« Last Edit: Sat, 20 July 2013, 21:29:17 by Meiosis »
Keyboards:
Filco Majestouch 2 - Sakura Edition [MX Blue]
Filco Majestouch 2 - Lotus Edition [MX Brown]
Realforce 23ub - Modded with 55g Domes.
Aripeko TKL

Offline IPT

  • Formerly projectD
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  • Location: NY
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 00:01:05 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

In the spirit in which I'm assuming your post was written, which is "We all know I'm being light-hearted and friendly even though I'm overtly coming off like an arrogant piece of work"...

I would gladly accept a challenge with you as to touch-typing speed and accuracy without looking at the keys using normal words and punctuation. What does the winner get? The right to ban the other person from low-hitting, sarcastic posts on geekhack for a year?

Careful what you wish for.

I type for business reasons. My typing involves more than 95% words (maybe 98-99%). The rest is both numbers and symbols, and when I use them it's usually for financial purposes like credit cards or financials for investors and such. Accuracy matters. I'm sure if I made a project of it I could memorize all of that, naturally, but it's never been a priority.

I've looked into this, and have even discussed this specific question with Brian of EK. It seems that most business users who require accuracy with numbers and who are not coders or data-entry people using numbers and symbols all day want to be able to see the lettering to ensure their accuracy. And while any touch-typist can certainly learn to memorize the entire board, and does so when they have to or decide to, it takes quite a bit of time and effort. And since I'm guessing I've been touch-typing far longer than you've been posting annoying posts on forums, it would be a bit of a new learning process for me.

Not to mention that even if I was willing to accept black lettering on a black keyboard there is still no board with Topres that I'm aware of that has 45g-uniform keys in a full-sized layout anyway, which was spelled out in my OP as my more dominant priorities (for those who read as well as they type).

But I have to say, your post did inspire me. I think I'm gonna start practicing to touch-type without ever looking at any keys because, well, frankly, I want to be more like you. And maybe then we can have that speed challenge one day that's not limited to text, and I can get you banned from the forum altogether.

In closing, I want reiterate that of course this is all being said in good fun. I like to think I'm a bit more mature and evolved than someone who would write those kinds of derogatory things to a fellow forum member and not be just joking.

Can I go now?  ;D

I just want to note that challenging someone to a typing war is not mature at the very least. Although I agree"accuracy" is important in the business sense and it is better to be safe than sorry.

Before you can ask for reiteration, do rationalize to me how challenging someone to a typing battle with internet points at stake is anything close to the "superior being" you are attempting to portray yourself as.

Sorry bout that ^^. I just find condescending tones quite unneeded especially since he was just saying you should know how to touch type, and that most people do since overall it does help efficiency by quite a bit.

I think thick ABS may be better than PBT honestly, but it's best to try out both.

and yet coming into a thread and totally ****ting on someone who doesn't touchtype is mature eh?

Offline meiosis

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 00:08:23 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

In the spirit in which I'm assuming your post was written, which is "We all know I'm being light-hearted and friendly even though I'm overtly coming off like an arrogant piece of work"...

I would gladly accept a challenge with you as to touch-typing speed and accuracy without looking at the keys using normal words and punctuation. What does the winner get? The right to ban the other person from low-hitting, sarcastic posts on geekhack for a year?

Careful what you wish for.

I type for business reasons. My typing involves more than 95% words (maybe 98-99%). The rest is both numbers and symbols, and when I use them it's usually for financial purposes like credit cards or financials for investors and such. Accuracy matters. I'm sure if I made a project of it I could memorize all of that, naturally, but it's never been a priority.

I've looked into this, and have even discussed this specific question with Brian of EK. It seems that most business users who require accuracy with numbers and who are not coders or data-entry people using numbers and symbols all day want to be able to see the lettering to ensure their accuracy. And while any touch-typist can certainly learn to memorize the entire board, and does so when they have to or decide to, it takes quite a bit of time and effort. And since I'm guessing I've been touch-typing far longer than you've been posting annoying posts on forums, it would be a bit of a new learning process for me.

Not to mention that even if I was willing to accept black lettering on a black keyboard there is still no board with Topres that I'm aware of that has 45g-uniform keys in a full-sized layout anyway, which was spelled out in my OP as my more dominant priorities (for those who read as well as they type).

But I have to say, your post did inspire me. I think I'm gonna start practicing to touch-type without ever looking at any keys because, well, frankly, I want to be more like you. And maybe then we can have that speed challenge one day that's not limited to text, and I can get you banned from the forum altogether.

In closing, I want reiterate that of course this is all being said in good fun. I like to think I'm a bit more mature and evolved than someone who would write those kinds of derogatory things to a fellow forum member and not be just joking.

Can I go now?  ;D

I just want to note that challenging someone to a typing war is not mature at the very least. Although I agree"accuracy" is important in the business sense and it is better to be safe than sorry.

Before you can ask for reiteration, do rationalize to me how challenging someone to a typing battle with internet points at stake is anything close to the "superior being" you are attempting to portray yourself as.

Sorry bout that ^^. I just find condescending tones quite unneeded especially since he was just saying you should know how to touch type, and that most people do since overall it does help efficiency by quite a bit.

I think thick ABS may be better than PBT honestly, but it's best to try out both.

and yet coming into a thread and totally ****ting on someone who doesn't touchtype is mature eh?

But this is the internet D:, I admit the initial message by WitchDr was malicious, but yeah :|. I guess :C meh my bad. No comment.
Keyboards:
Filco Majestouch 2 - Sakura Edition [MX Blue]
Filco Majestouch 2 - Lotus Edition [MX Brown]
Realforce 23ub - Modded with 55g Domes.
Aripeko TKL

Offline 002

  • Posts: 192
  • Topre Enthusiast
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 09:02:23 »
Just want to say thanks for posting your thoughts, keyjay.
If you could post some pictures of it, that would be great. If you're *really* game, I would love to see some shots of the internals too :)

Offline nightsnack

  • Posts: 32
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 11:07:51 »
Just want to say thanks for posting your thoughts, keyjay.
If you could post some pictures of it, that would be great. If you're *really* game, I would love to see some shots of the internals too :)

What he said! I was hoping to see pictures too.

Offline keyjay

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 154
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 15:04:57 »
Just want to say thanks for posting your thoughts, keyjay.
If you could post some pictures of it, that would be great. If you're *really* game, I would love to see some shots of the internals too :)

So sorry to disappoint, but I glue my keyboards down to my desk with mounting tape. This one is already glued down. The alignment process is too time-consuming for me to redo it to take pics. Besides, I'm not prepared to take this apart at this time since I don't know how and I don't have the time to learn and to do it.

But here are a few pics of it on my desk anyway. (Note that the extra kepad to the left is an "X-Keys 24". See http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44497.msg922373#msg922373.)

Clicking on an image will enlarge it.


28942-0

28944-1

28946-2


Here's two from a different angle:

28948-3

28950-4


And here's one taken in a darkened room with just a flashlight for indirect illumination. In this lighting the contrast between the keycap color and case color is more obvious:

28952-5

« Last Edit: Sun, 21 July 2013, 20:38:35 by keyjay »

Offline keyjay

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 154
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 15:21:39 »
I've got a couple of sample keycaps from a RealForce and have compared the surface to the surface of the keycaps on Type Heaven.

The surface of the keycaps on the Type Heaven is considerably "rougher" than the ones used on a RealForce. It doesn't feel rough while typing but when rubbing a fingertip over it it's very obviously a rough texture (and of course rubbing a fingernail across it tells all). The result of this textured surface is a tendency for the fingertips to want to "stick" to the key, which I'm sure is what it's intended to do. It may take some getting used to, and may very well explain why I'm not as yet moving around the keys nearly as smoothly as with the Leopold and WASD I have that have Cherry Browns, and why I seem to keep hitting the sides of keys rather than clearing them to hit the top (I doubt the return is less robust than with the Browns, so that's probably not it). Of course, it could just be muscle memory and a matter of time. As we all know, for me to even begin to make judgments in this regard after just a couple hours of use is virtually meaningless.

The roughness is reassuring in terms of potentially retarding the wearing off of the legends and the shining up of the keycaps, and I assume it does serve a useful purpose in terms of typing accuracy (and comfort?) once one gets used to it. I just hope they didn't go a bit too far with this texture.

Other than that, overall, so far "me likey".


Offline nightsnack

  • Posts: 32
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 23:27:38 »
Good photos, thanks for that. Was guiding the wire to the right your first choice? If I remember correctly, you can't put the USB cable out through the middle as there's no cut out for it, right? That's a very strange design choice from Topre, IMO.

Offline keyjay

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 154
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 21 July 2013, 23:32:57 »
Good photos, thanks for that. Was guiding the wire to the right your first choice? If I remember correctly, you can't put the USB cable out through the middle as there's no cut out for it, right? That's a very strange design choice from Topre, IMO.

Guiding it out through the right was my "preferred" choice. It has channels to go to the right or to the left (just like with the Leopolds). And it does allow you to guide it out through the middle provided you use the elevation feet.

By the way, I have the elevation feet extended in those pics. It's not needed for running the cable out the right or left side, just the middle.



« Last Edit: Sun, 21 July 2013, 23:35:03 by keyjay »

Offline danrew

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 22 July 2013, 08:34:19 »
Thanks for the review and pics. I've been using printed ABS keys on a Filco for the past 3 years, and the legends have not worn off in the least, nor do they look like they're going to anytime soon. I believe Filco also coats their keys (at least the first version of the Majestouch) with some kind of clear coat. On the letters I use the most (A, S, T, Spacebar, Enter) there are wear marks that kind of look like scratches. Probably a result of striking those keys with my nail and the fact that those keys get a lot of mileage.

My Filcos have developed a very shiny surface and it's true that they have a different feel than when I first got them. Depending on your point of view, the shine feels "silky" if you like em, and "greasy" if you don't ha ha. I'm enjoying the rough texture of the PBT keys on my Realforce 87U.

I am also looking for a uniform weighted 45g full size Topre keyboard, and I gave the TypeHeaven a good look. But in the end I went with the 87U because I wanted to experience the PBT keys. The cost of getting a Type Heaven keyboard and replacing the keys with PBT roughly comes out to the cost of a Realforce on EK.
Keyboards:
Filco TKL Blues, Filco TKL Browns, Filco TKL Blacks, Realforce 87U 55G, Realforce 87U 45G, HHKB Pro 2

Offline tgujay

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Kalamazoo
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 22 July 2013, 12:05:32 »
I need to be able to read the lettering easily).

Can you touch type? If not, go learn, right now. No excuses, the only valid ones are genuine disabilities. If you're missing both arms and type with your nose or do not have the mental capacity then carry on. I doubt either is true. And don't give me this I need to clearly see for X stuff, if that is the case you simply aren't proficient yet.

Liking the look of the letters or needing them on a shared board is fine, but if you need them because you can't type properly then learn.

In the spirit in which I'm assuming your post was written, which is "We all know I'm being light-hearted and friendly even though I'm overtly coming off like an arrogant piece of work"...

I would gladly accept a challenge with you as to touch-typing speed and accuracy without looking at the keys using normal words and punctuation. What does the winner get? The right to ban the other person from low-hitting, sarcastic posts on geekhack for a year?

Careful what you wish for.

I type for business reasons. My typing involves more than 95% words (maybe 98-99%). The rest is both numbers and symbols, and when I use them it's usually for financial purposes like credit cards or financials for investors and such. Accuracy matters. I'm sure if I made a project of it I could memorize all of that, naturally, but it's never been a priority.

I've looked into this, and have even discussed this specific question with Brian of EK. It seems that most business users who require accuracy with numbers and who are not coders or data-entry people using numbers and symbols all day want to be able to see the lettering to ensure their accuracy. And while any touch-typist can certainly learn to memorize the entire board, and does so when they have to or decide to, it takes quite a bit of time and effort. And since I'm guessing I've been touch-typing far longer than you've been posting annoying posts on forums, it would be a bit of a new learning process for me.

Not to mention that even if I was willing to accept black lettering on a black keyboard there is still no board with Topres that I'm aware of that has 45g-uniform keys in a full-sized layout anyway, which was spelled out in my OP as my more dominant priorities (for those who read as well as they type).

But I have to say, your post did inspire me. I think I'm gonna start practicing to touch-type without ever looking at any keys because, well, frankly, I want to be more like you. And maybe then we can have that speed challenge one day that's not limited to text, and I can get you banned from the forum altogether.

In closing, I want reiterate that of course this is all being said in good fun. I like to think I'm a bit more mature and evolved than someone who would write those kinds of derogatory things to a fellow forum member and not be just joking.

Can I go now?  ;D



Jimmies status:  Rustled
Gotta collect them all

Offline Poom

  • Posts: 138
  • Location: Seoul, Korea
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 23 July 2013, 03:21:41 »
hi, anybody know if they would release a TKL version of this Type Heaven? somehow i prefer this look than the realforce. would fit perfectly at my currect office set up.

and thanks for the review!

Offline keyjay

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 154
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 23 July 2013, 04:18:05 »
By the way, the keys are softer on the Type Heaven than the Cherry Browns on my Leopold and WASD boards are.

Yesterday while I was working through while being exhausted for a change, I got long strings of ddddd's across the screen two times. This has never happened in two years or so with the Browns, and I've been just as exhausted plenty of times before.

I'm starting to notice why one forum member once described it as a buttery feeling that was very pleasant. And why people say they can type much longer on these than on Browns without fatigue. They're both rated at 45g and I can't comment on what that means relative to the feel that I'm experiencing, but I know they feel softer.


Offline keyjay

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 154
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 23 July 2013, 04:20:48 »
And the roughness of the surface of the keys is entirely unnoticeable. And I don't think it's an impediment at all.


Offline nightsnack

  • Posts: 32
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 23 July 2013, 11:17:54 »
By the way, the keys are softer on the Type Heaven than the Cherry Browns on my Leopold and WASD boards are.

Yesterday while I was working through while being exhausted for a change, I got long strings of ddddd's across the screen two times. This has never happened in two years or so with the Browns, and I've been just as exhausted plenty of times before.

I'm starting to notice why one forum member once described it as a buttery feeling that was very pleasant. And why people say they can type much longer on these than on Browns without fatigue. They're both rated at 45g and I can't comment on what that means relative to the feel that I'm experiencing, but I know they feel softer.

Exactly the same for me when I switched from my Browns to Topre. ddddddddddddd=

Offline keyjay

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 154
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 23 July 2013, 14:11:59 »
By the way, the keys are softer on the Type Heaven than the Cherry Browns on my Leopold and WASD boards are.

Yesterday while I was working through while being exhausted for a change, I got long strings of ddddd's across the screen two times. This has never happened in two years or so with the Browns, and I've been just as exhausted plenty of times before.

I'm starting to notice why one forum member once described it as a buttery feeling that was very pleasant. And why people say they can type much longer on these than on Browns without fatigue. They're both rated at 45g and I can't comment on what that means relative to the feel that I'm experiencing, but I know they feel softer.

Exactly the same for me when I switched from my Browns to Topre. ddddddddddddd=

That's interesting. Just the ddddd's? Humph.

Did it stop happening after you got used to the keyboard (and/or stopped working insane hours)?

I did have this kind of thing happen with the Browns sometimes, usually aaaaa's or ;;;;;;;'s and usually only when I was literally nodding out at my desk, which was not quite the case the other day (I don't think).


Offline therecorder

  • Posts: 442
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 26 July 2013, 10:21:28 »
Anyone outside the US and Canada found a way of getting one of these?

Offline nightsnack

  • Posts: 32
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 30 July 2013, 11:13:07 »


That's interesting. Just the ddddd's? Humph.

Did it stop happening after you got used to the keyboard (and/or stopped working insane hours)?

I did have this kind of thing happen with the Browns sometimes, usually aaaaa's or ;;;;;;;'s and usually only when I was literally nodding out at my desk, which was not quite the case the other day (I don't think).

Oops, just saw this. It happens when I drift off thinking about something. I don't know why it's mostly D. Perhaps because the middle finger is longer?

I can't tell if it's happening less now, as I switched to a new board with MX browns. Oh, and it doesn't happen when I use Browns.

Offline nightsnack

  • Posts: 32
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 30 July 2013, 11:16:18 »
Anyone outside the US and Canada found a way of getting one of these?

They just started to go on sale on taobao for 1199 RMB. That price is pretty high though. Where are you located? Getting from amazon through a forwarder may be better than TB in this case.

Offline therecorder

  • Posts: 442
Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 30 July 2013, 11:31:15 »
Anyone outside the US and Canada found a way of getting one of these?

They just started to go on sale on taobao for 1199 RMB. That price is pretty high though. Where are you located? Getting from amazon through a forwarder may be better than TB in this case.

Thanks, I have seen them on Taobao, and with Agent's fees and shipping it's a bit much.  I've asked Qtang if he might be able to get them direct, but he hasn't, as yet, gotten back to me on this.  But, I'm not in a rush, so I'll wait and see what happens...  Thanks again.

Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 01:27:06 »
The dddddddd thing is still happening to me. Only the D key!

There's no way these keys are all evenly weighted.

This is a job for the Ripometer. I don't happen to have the prescribed tools handy. I'm very curious to see what the official field-test readings are when someone who has one of these boards does the official tests.

Other than that, I'm still liking it a lot. The keys certainly feel softer than the Browns and this takes a little getting used to, so I'm still not able to voice a formal opinion. So far, it's nice.


Offline TimIsABat

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 03 August 2013, 10:04:06 »
Good review. Love the pictures to show how it looks. I have been curious about this board since I'm in the market for a Topre board, but the price for a HHKB and a Reaforce 87u are ludicrous to me. I might give this a buy seeing that MK has then for cheaper than Amazon.

Is it easy to get replacement keysets like in PBT or even ABS blank sets? I really like the look of the white 87u. I think I would like the 45g because I ergo modded my clears to 62g so I like light weight tactile switches.

Might just wait till they release cheaper TKL
Leopold FC660M MX Reds | Poker X 62g  Ergoclear modded and plate modded (out of comission) | IBM Model M 1391401 | Dell AT101 | Compaq RT101 | HHKB Pro 2 | WASD CODE TKL MX Clears

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 03 August 2013, 10:08:59 »
Good review. Love the pictures to show how it looks. I have been curious about this board since I'm in the market for a Topre board, but the price for a HHKB and a Reaforce 87u are ludicrous to me. I might give this a buy seeing that MK has then for cheaper than Amazon.

Is it easy to get replacement keysets like in PBT or even ABS blank sets? I really like the look of the white 87u. I think I would like the 45g because I ergo modded my clears to 62g so I like light weight tactile switches.

Might just wait till they release cheaper TKL

Key caps are topre, don't think there are any direct replacements at this time.

But might be possible to piece together something.

Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 01:37:58 »
I want to update my review at this time. I now have a Type Heaven at home and one at the office, and it's all I've been using for, well, about two weeks now. I really wasn't using this until about two weeks ago. Now I am.

So far, I have no idea if I will like it a lot better than the Cherry Browns and be glad I changed, or if I'll end up liking it a lot less than the Cherry Browns and going back to the Browns.

The reason is because this is taking some real getting used to after a few years of using the Browns (and loving them). It's a very, very different keyboard than the Browns.

I have no idea how long it will take before I can really judge -- or how long I even plan to hang in there trying before I either have an ah-ha moment or give up.

Let me try to explain. When I was younger I bought a sports car (used) with a stick shift. It wasn't my first stick shift but it was my first sports car on that level. About three months after I bought it, I took it to the dealer's service center and said there was something wrong with the clutch or transmission -- it just wouldn't shift smoothly in all the time I owned it. I drove it to show the serviceman what I meant. Then he jumped behind the wheel and took me for a ride around the block and he raced through the gears like he was on a racetrack -- without it exhibiting even a hint of the issues that I was experiencing. He then asked me how long I owned the car, and when I said "About three months" he said to give it more time and get back with him in another few months.

Needless to say, in the weeks and months that followed I got the hang of it and was able to operate it almost as elegantly as he did. I never experienced those issues again for the next few years that I owned it.

That's what I suspect “may” be happening with this keyboard right now. I'm typing much slower, am making much more mistakes, and am generally laboring awkwardly to get to the right keys. I'm fumbling in a way I haven't in years. (I noticed that one reviewer who liked the feel of the keys also said he’s typing slower.)

I have no idea yet if it's just because of the keyboard or because of me – and if I’ll get the hang or not.

These keys are definitely smoother or "softer" than the Browns. I don't care if all the specs between this board and the Cherry Brown boards say they're all 45-gram keys – which is what they say. These have less resistance. At least, that's how it "feels". (Ripster, where are you when we need you?) Someone in one review about Topres described them as feeling "buttery", and that's not so far off from how they feel to me. While the Browns sometimes had me eventually feeling like my fingers were getting a bit fatigued -- just barely and pretty rarely but enough to catch my attention for a moment on occasion -- I don't feel that happening here, at least not as yet. I guess all the fumbling is slowing me down enough to give my fingers a momentary rest here and there, for all I know, but I’m pretty sure these are just softer and will be causing less fatigue or no fatigue at al even after hours and hours of non-stop typing – which is consistent with what a few other reviewers have reported.

Maybe the fumbling won't end or won't diminish enough to be acceptable. Maybe it's because there's more travel with these and I end up hitting the sides of other keys. I haven't measured or checked specs on the travel on the Type Heaven or on the Browns, but I know this feels like it has much more travel, which frankly means more work and may be the whole problem, which may be beyond anything I'll resolve with reprogramming my muscle memory. Of course, my Browns boards all have o-rings added, which not only reduces travel from their factory travel a bit, but also adds a bit of bounce to the keys, or so I would assume.

Which may be the other reason I'm having issues adapting to this keyboard. By being softer keys -- having less resistance (or at least certainly feeling that way) -- it seems I'm also noticing less power in the "return" or "bounce-back" (there may be a more appropriate keyboard-lingo term -- I'm sure there is), and it may be that that little less crispness or speed to the bounce-back is largely what's throwing off my rhythm, which would of course seem insurmountable even with all the experience in the world.

Of course, I'm not sure if this sense of travel and sense of bounce-back is really indicative of what's going on in the mechanics or not (or, for that matter, whether these keys are even softer than the Browns or not).

Then there’s the issue of whether or not I’m bottoming out, which is a concept I read about on this forum a lot but frankly I can’t really relate to. As far as I know, I always bottom out when I type, and always will. Maybe sometimes I don’t, but usually I do. Maybe for someone else it would be easier because they don’t bottom out. I have no idea what that would be like and don’t expect to experience that in my lifetime.

So far I can't begin to guess whether I'm likely to adapt and master this thing with reprogrammed muscle memory.

I'm curious to take this further. Part of me is wondering whether these keys aren't a more finely tuned machine in the fact that the keys are softer. At times I feel like it accommodates such fast speed that my old habits aren't yet ready to keep up with it -- I keep feeling like I have to just consciously think about where the keys are and where I'm going, and that when I do that I can type at the speeds I'm normally accustomed to typing at without having any issues at all -- and with less fatigue no matter how long I type.

Maybe I’m going through more movement and it just isn’t going to be as fast or as comfortable over time.

Maybe, for all I know, I just got my first sports car and it's going to take a few months of experience before I can operate the way it's meant to be operated.

For now, I’m often feeling like I want my Browns back. I’m about to start switching back and forth between the Type Heaven and Browns to see how that goes.





Offline nightsnack

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 09:12:05 »
Like you, I switched from Browns to Topre when the FC660C arrived. Layout aside, I think this is similar to your scenario since the 660C is an all-45g board as well. It took me a few days to get used to Topre, after a few years of using Browns, but after I got accustomed to it, I found myself liking Topre a lot more than the Browns.

Quote
These keys are definitely smoother or "softer" than the Browns. I don't care if all the specs between this board and the Cherry Brown boards say they're all 45-gram keys – which is what they say. These have less resistance.

Personally, I did not find too much difference when it comes to resistance. But what I did have to get used to was how early in the keystroke actuation was on Topre. A very light depression of the key will activate the switch--with browns, you can still depress the key slightly and not have an accidental actuation, but that's almost impossible with the 45g Topre.

Quote
At least, that's how it "feels". (Ripster, where are you when we need you?)

He's on reddit these days, and here's part  of his FC660C review, which shows the activation force: http://imgur.com/a/Hq7NL/layout/horizontal#9

Offline keyjay

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 13:27:53 »
Like you, I switched from Browns to Topre when the FC660C arrived. Layout aside, I think this is similar to your scenario since the 660C is an all-45g board as well. It took me a few days to get used to Topre, after a few years of using Browns, but after I got accustomed to it, I found myself liking Topre a lot more than the Browns.

Quote
These keys are definitely smoother or "softer" than the Browns. I don't care if all the specs between this board and the Cherry Brown boards say they're all 45-gram keys – which is what they say. These have less resistance.

Personally, I did not find too much difference when it comes to resistance. But what I did have to get used to was how early in the keystroke actuation was on Topre. A very light depression of the key will activate the switch--with browns, you can still depress the key slightly and not have an accidental actuation, but that's almost impossible with the 45g Topre.

Quote
At least, that's how it "feels". (Ripster, where are you when we need you?)

He's on reddit these days, and here's part  of his FC660C review, which shows the activation force: http://imgur.com/a/Hq7NL/layout/horizontal#9
Thanks. Any idea where his comparable analysis is of the actual actuation force for Browns? I'd be curious to see that.

Maybe with the o-rings I added to my Browns the hard rubber bump at the bottom and the shorter travel is putting a little pounding on my fingers causing fatigue? I really don't think that's it. I think they're firmer than Topre, I really do.




Offline Hyde

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Re: Got a Type Heaven - review and questions
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 01 September 2013, 19:02:39 »
Maybe I come from MX Red so I actually find it has MORE resistance.  Though I use MX Brown at work but I still find Topre has slightly more resistance.

One odd thing I notice is that does anyone else find the keycap feels a bit.... rubbery?  Like it's almost as if it's rubber coated but I'm not too sure.

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