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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ander on Sun, 31 December 2017, 00:49:07

Title: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: ander on Sun, 31 December 2017, 00:49:07
I'd like to take a survey.

It seems to me we're drawn to MKs for four reasons:
Please note that:

Touch—for lack of a more inclusive term—includes things like special layouts, programmability, and any other physical, finger-connected factors that make a keeb more or less preferable and efficient for you as a typing machine. (If you loved the touch but hated the sound, you could wear earplugs.)

Rarity refers exclusively to the pleasure you get from a board's collector's, monetary and/or status value (which—deny this as you will—usually involves the privileged feeling of having something few others do), independent of how it functions. (Let's face it: Assuming they're in good shape, a Model M 1391401 works as well as an Industrial SSK with blue keys.)

Of course we're also drawn to MKs for their consistency and durability, but these are such general MK qualities—qualities that apply across, and I don't believe I'm about to type this, the board—that they needn't concern us here.

Divide the number 20 between these four categories, according to how important each of them is to you. (And yes, zeroes are allowed.)

I'll start:

Touch: 11
Looks: 3
Sound: 5
Rarity: 1
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sun, 31 December 2017, 01:16:06
Touch 12
Sound 4
Look 3
Rarity 1
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 31 December 2017, 01:45:33
Touch 8
Looks 3
Rarity 7
Sound 2
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: chyros on Sun, 31 December 2017, 02:10:08
Touch 8
Sound 6
Looks 3
Rarity 3
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: odd on Sun, 31 December 2017, 04:32:19
Touch = 10
Looks = 6
Sound = 3
Rarity = 1
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 31 December 2017, 08:20:08
Touch = 10
Looks = 0 (if "Looks" includes "Layout" then also 10)
Sound = 0 (may be a negative number in some cases)
Rarity = 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: zslane on Sun, 31 December 2017, 12:49:35
Touch = 7
Looks = 8
Sound = 5
Rarity = 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: bitzie on Sun, 31 December 2017, 13:08:57
Touch: 10
Looks: 6
Sound: 4
Rarity: 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Hyde on Sun, 31 December 2017, 18:23:58
Quote from: fohat.digs on Sun, 31 December 2017, 08:20:08
Touch = 10
Looks = 0 (if "Looks" includes "Layout" then also 10)
Sound = 0 (may be a negative number in some cases)
Rarity = 0

I think Layout is part of Touch (it's mentioned in his "please note" section I think).

My guess is that Touch is the "functional/ergonomics/mechanical" aspect and Looks is more the "aesthetics" aspect.

So your answer is probably Touch = 20.

For me:

Touch = 10
Looks = 5
Sound = 5
Rarity = 0

Initially I think I didn't care much about looks since I own Topre Realforce (which depends on taste, but personally found it rather old looking), but then I also remembered that I can't stand 12 year old gamer boards so I've since bumped up my "Looks" score.  :P

If we're talking about looks alone then I actually quite like Das Keyboard 3, Das Keyboard 4, WASD Code, and Razer Blackwidow X (Tournament Edition too).
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 31 December 2017, 19:00:17
Quote from: Hyde on Sun, 31 December 2017, 18:23:58

I think Layout is part of Touch (it's mentioned in his "please note" section I think).


I did not read it that way, he said "special layouts" and to me the fundamental native layout is a prime determinant, maybe even 17/20.

Otherwise why have I spent so much time modifying near-ISO layouts to near-ANSI? Because my muscle memory is deeply ingrained. I hate using a laptop, even my "ANSI" Acer with its numpad.

I have several delightful keyboards that I have not touched in years (black NMB Hi-Tek, various SMKs, etc) simply because of something like a 1u Backspace or weird Shift key.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: OfTheWild on Sun, 31 December 2017, 22:22:52
Touch: 7
Looks: 7
Sound: 1
Rarity: 5

Big points for me are typing feels and visual styling. I'm a linear silent type person so sound is not a factor. I also like the custom small run stuff instead of the mass production boards.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: chyros on Mon, 01 January 2018, 03:03:22
I'd argue "sound" also includes the absence of sound.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Duckyreddy on Mon, 01 January 2018, 03:10:34
Touch:8
Looks: 4
Sound: 6
Rarity: 2
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Coreda on Mon, 01 January 2018, 04:05:15
Originally ergonomics (mainly of the switch) were a factor, since I was looking for relief from my previous RD board. If that's collected under 'Touch', and if board size is included with 'Looks', then I guess it would be:

Touch: 8
Looks: 8
Sound: 4
Rarity: 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Moufinure on Mon, 01 January 2018, 04:49:36
Touch: 10
Looks: 1
Sound : 8
Rarity: 2

Touch was and still is my primary quest for keyboards, and that drew me naturally towards mechanical keyboards.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: killyou on Mon, 01 January 2018, 06:12:15
Touch = 10
Looks = 5
Sound = 5
Rarity = 0

One crucial metric is missing, namely form factor. If we include form factor and still have to distribute 20 points then:

Form factor = 8
Touch = 8
Looks = 2
Sound = 2
Rarity = 0

I moved to MX type boards because of the 60% goodness. Another metric which should be considered is programmability to get the full picture.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 January 2018, 08:15:01
Quote from: killyou on Mon, 01 January 2018, 06:12:15

One crucial metric is missing, namely form factor. If we include form factor and still have to distribute 20 points then:


2 metrics: form factor and layout are supremely important. Things like looks and rarity are comparatively trivial, in my opinion.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Parva Ovis on Mon, 01 January 2018, 08:54:48
Assuming layout and form factor are under Touch:

Touch: 10
Looks:  7
Sound: 3
Rarity: 0

If not,

Touch: 8
Looks: 9
Sound: 3
Rarity: 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: gorauskas on Mon, 01 January 2018, 17:20:00
Touch: 14
Looks: 4
Sound: 2
Rarity: 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: noSatellite on Mon, 01 January 2018, 17:31:25
Quote from: fohat.digs on Mon, 01 January 2018, 08:15:01
Quote from: killyou on Mon, 01 January 2018, 06:12:15

One crucial metric is missing, namely form factor. If we include form factor and still have to distribute 20 points then:


2 metrics: form factor and layout are supremely important. Things like looks and rarity are comparatively trivial, in my opinion.

I completely agree. A third very important factor - at least for me - is the ability to determine things like form factor and layout for yourself. So, personalizability.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: ollir on Tue, 02 January 2018, 09:41:47
Touch: 7
Sound: 7
Look: 4
Rarity: 2
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: glack23 on Tue, 02 January 2018, 19:55:32
Touch: 10
Looks: 5
Sound: 4
Rarity: 1
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 03 January 2018, 03:35:01
Missed customisablility - a keyboard that can readily be customised, from replacement keycaps to replacement case or controller.  Not quite the same as look, more oriented to how easy it is to change a keyboard's look from what the manufacturer provides.

Touch: 8
Looks: 4
Sound: 5
Rarity: 3

Why can't these all be out of 10, where 1 is not important and 10 is important?
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: E3E on Sat, 14 April 2018, 02:53:05
Touch: 5

Looks: 5

Sound: 5

Rarity: 5

In my opinion, it all matters to me to an extent. Sometimes one factor matters less, but my Mira is an example of everything being evenly distributed.

Sound has a psychological factor that, in my opinion, correlates with typing feel, and when a board both sounds and feels good, it is much more pleasant than just one or the other.

A board that looks good and makes me smile every time I take a moment to admire it makes it all the better.

Components that were hard to source or are even possibly the only examples ever known add a little personal satisfaction to it, and I sometimes revel in how unlikely it'd be that I'd ever run into some of the parts I use again, especially on some of my Alps builds. 
 
I do get tempted by rarity, but it alone doesn't do much for me unless it can be slotted into a build and actually make practical sense. This is why I have most of my fun with Alps builds, because even the most common components do require a bit of a hunt, not to mention the sheer vastness of Alps keyboards. When I got into Alps in 2015, it was really fun hunting down the keyboards I wanted and even making new discoveries and so on. 
 
A board that is lacking in any of these factors overall tickles my fancy less, though I can certainly still admire it, but there will probably always be the nagging feeling of it not being quite right in one area or another.

Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 14 April 2018, 03:55:32
// Ergodox // 

lvl 99
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Sup on Sat, 14 April 2018, 16:56:27
Touch: 10
Looks: 5
Sound: 5
Rarity: 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: JP on Thu, 19 April 2018, 08:23:10
Survey, how many members were biased looking at the responses of other members?  ;)
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Snowdog993 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 09:35:15
Touch: 15
Looks:   0 (Traditional ANSI Layout)
Sound:  5
Rarity:   0

I don't think "looks" is a factor. If it were "layout" I would say something like this:

Touch:   10
Layout:   5
Sound:    5
Rarity:     0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Kyi195 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 09:39:47
Touch: 10
Looks: 4
Sound: 4
Rarity: 2

Money always beats out rarity though!!

The aesthetics of alternate layouts are always nice, but they kinda match up with the way it all sounds.  I don't really see myself in the future buying more than one keyset at a time, but there are a bunch that I want to try out.  I just don't want to have to store them all or spend all that money on them...  Who knows, maybe that'll change in the future.  The feel of the whole experience though is definitely what I like atm.  The feeling of the switches, the tops of the caps, the physical feeling of the board, both carrying around and it sitting on my desk.  Though this is definnitely the firs time I've though tabout it.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Sifo on Thu, 19 April 2018, 09:44:45
Touch: 7
Looks: 7
Sound: 0
Rarity: 6
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: a_ak57 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 09:58:28
Touch: 9
Looks: 7
Sound: 1
Rarity: 3

I honestly don't care too much about sound as long as it's not rattly or something (though noise level is a consideration for using at work but that's for others, not me).  Also don't really care about how much my stuff is worth (in fact I really wish it was worth less so I could rotate stuff in and out of the office and not say "yeah this is another couple hundred dollar keyboard I brought in", but there is a novelty to owning something like a southpaw keyboard or even Topre.  Looks rating is almost entirely keycaps since I don't care too much about fancy case design. 

And touch rating is largely the key press feel.  I'm not super particular about weighting and though I use nonstandard layouts I'm find with good ol' 104u ANSI, but I'm always pining for a new and better feel when typing.  I fell in love with the BKE redux domes I have in my Novatouch but I still sit around thinking "yeah but maybe I'd like Orange or Brown Alps more" and I also plan to try capacitive buckling springs.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Thu, 19 April 2018, 10:01:53
Touch: 0
Looks: 0
Sound: 0
Rarity: 0
Taking Fotos: 20

More
Touch: 2
Looks: 8
Sound: 8
Rarity: 2
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 14:09:49
Touch: 9
Looks: 3
Sound: 2
Rarity: 6
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 19 April 2018, 14:26:37
FC980 > All

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: ScottPaladin on Thu, 19 April 2018, 14:56:30
Touch: 8
Looks: 6
Sound: 6
Rarity: 0

Rarity throws me, because I don't really care if a board is common or rare, but I do like them to be interesting. "Interesting" might mean rare, but it doesn't have to. There's also a big factor called "usable" in my head. If the layout is so weird or the switches so bad that it'll just go in a box forever, why own it?
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 15:07:56
Quote from: ScottPaladin on Thu, 19 April 2018, 14:56:30
Touch: 8
Looks: 6
Sound: 6
Rarity: 0

Rarity throws me, because I don't really care if a board is common or rare, but I do like them to be interesting. "Interesting" might mean rare, but it doesn't have to. There's also a big factor called "usable" in my head. If the layout is so weird or the switches so bad that it'll just go in a box forever, why own it?

I'd call it the collector's itch. I have keyboards that I can't use, but they are cool in my mind so it is hard to part with them. Also FOMO (fear of missing out) used to play a huge role in my buys because some things might surface again only every 4-5 years.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: ScottPaladin on Thu, 19 April 2018, 15:27:06
Quote from: Blaise170 on Thu, 19 April 2018, 15:07:56

I'd call it the collector's itch. I have keyboards that I can't use, but they are cool in my mind so it is hard to part with them. Also FOMO (fear of missing out) used to play a huge role in my buys because some things might surface again only every 4-5 years.

There's definitely something to the collector's itch. Although I guess I also mentally classify "showing off" as a use.

Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: MGMorden on Sun, 22 April 2018, 17:48:16
Touch 12
Sound 6
Look 2
Rarity 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 22 April 2018, 18:02:33
Touch: 9
Sound: 1
Look: 8
Rarity: 2

The only important part about "sound" to me is that it's not too noticeable in a quiet room--i.e. no clicky switches for me, though I love how they feel to type on.  I've done things to switches and hollow keyboard cases to further reduce typing sound and keep my keyboard on a thick mousepad.  The typing feel is why I use mechanical keyboards, but if they are easy on the eyes, it's a plus.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: minh278 on Sun, 22 April 2018, 19:05:26
Touch 7
Sound 7
Look 6
Rarity 0
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 22 April 2018, 19:21:21
Touch: 10
Sound: 8
Look: 5
Rarity: 1

I’m always amazed how partial I am to touch and sound.  Even a good switch can feel wrong to me with the wrong type of keycaps or case/plate.   Best example I can think of is my poker with Gateron greens.  Put cubic or oem caps on it in a nice aluminum case and I hate it so much I almost desoldered it. Put it back in the stock case with DSA caps and it’s pretty darn nice. 

Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 22 April 2018, 20:11:08
Touch:  10  (assuming this includes layout and programmability)
Sound: 03  (just want relative silence)
Look:   07 (assuming this includes form factor)
Rarity:  00
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: ideus on Sun, 22 April 2018, 20:17:21
The idea of the survey is interesting. However, other categories are needed to actually reflect preferences. Layout, Keycaps, Size, Programmability. Maybe some others.
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sun, 22 April 2018, 20:26:33
Touch 10
Sound 3
Look 6
Rarity 1
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Hak Foo on Tue, 24 April 2018, 00:02:36
To me, rarity is actually a negative value-- it means that spare parts or a reserve unit will be difficult to source.

A fun one is the ALPS keycap situation.  Tai-Hao sells a really nifty double-shot keycap set, dirt cheap, in several popular colour combinations, but as far as I can tell, it fits NO keyboard actually on the market completely.  (Theoretically it fits the KBParadise V80MTS, but it comes with a numpad the V80 doesn't)
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Tue, 24 April 2018, 00:38:41
I found this extremely hard to answer accurately, mainly because the categories (except for rarity) all melt into each other.  For example, the 60% form factor I like as a matter of function and utility is  included in TOUCH.  However I also find a Pok3r or HHKB much more aesthetically pleasing than a standard issue Dell keeb, giving it points in LOOKS.  The heights of rows of switches or the curve of them or the board also are weighed in both categories.

SOUND is also a feedback which blends with TOUCH.  While I hate the loose, rattly, clacky sound of a super cheap KB and like it very quiet, I don't like zero sound.  I spent a lot of time lubricating switches on two keyboards and it decreased sound quite a bit, the inherent friction sound of plastic on plastic in switches is pleasing to my ear as well as my fingertips and I do not like the complete elimination of this. 

I think form factor and customizability require no separate categories.  Anyways my response is:

Touch: 11
Looks: 4    (I'm able to downplay the importance because it includes lighting and fonts, which are not important to me)
Sound:5
Rarity:0   (I appreciate the collectibility of many things, but not here)
Title: Re: What's Your Keyboard Deal? (A survey)
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 24 April 2018, 04:48:14
Touch: 11
Looks: 3
Sound: 6
Rarity: 0

Rare is neat but meh, my keyboard is a tool. Feel is by far the most important thing though sound is also important, I don't do well with loud.