Author Topic: Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions  (Read 71520 times)

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Offline azizhp

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 11 March 2011, 08:27:45 »
I've been lurking at geekhack for a few weeks and this is my first post - you folks are an amazing resource. See how much I learned from you? :) I've also got an order in for this filco red, and I am REALLY looking forward to it. Right now I have a wireless media keyboard/mouse from Logitech and I'm just tired of the whole wireless battery-replacement hassle, the lack of responsiveness, and the flat profile. I think a mechanical board is going to be good for me to finally wean me from lazy typing habits too :P

My main goal was to find a keyboard I can play Warcraft with as well as do a lot of writing and coding. The reds appealed to me from the start but I dont think apart from this board there's any other red available in the US right now. And the price is only about $30 more than an equivalent board from Das or Steel with blacks and blues.
« Last Edit: Fri, 11 March 2011, 08:29:49 by azizhp »

Offline CephalicCarnage

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 11 March 2011, 09:07:15 »
Thanks for the review!  Red LED + red WASD looks great!  I'm quite tempted.
Filco Tenkeyless "Otaku" (Blue), Leopold Tenkeyless "Otaku" (Brown), Leopold Tenkeyless (Blue), Goldtouch GTC-0077 Numeric Pad (Brown)
In the mail: HHKB Pro2 White/Gray

WTB: G80-8113HRBUS-2 with Clear switches

Offline krazymunky

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 11 March 2011, 10:03:30 »
Quote from: YpoCaramel;309779
I actually checked this keyboard out at the store today, Hong Kong stores are stocking Filcoa now, I think Suneon is now the distributor. The red is a light switch but I can see why some people prefer it over the Browns, they sort of um.... bottom out better? I guess I've always been bothered by the distance between the pressure point and the operating point on the Browns, maybe that's the reason for the Reds (I'm still more of a Blue person, whiny pitch notwithstanding).

A Red-Topre comparison would probably tell me about the Topres now that I have a point of reference.


are you serious?! i went back in december and couldnt find any mech kb. i was probably looking in the wrong places...

wanchai comp centre? Mong kok? let me know where please

Offline YpoCaramel

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #53 on: Fri, 11 March 2011, 10:24:09 »
yea, the shop just got in their first Filcos like today. Wanchai Computer Centre, Let's Go on 2/F computer has them. Wiki needs to be updated. A good collection of Filcos, no Topre kbs, no Duckys though.
Keyboards: IBM Model M M13, Filco Majestouch Tactile 104, PS3 Wireless Keypad, Logitech Dinovo mini
Other Input Devices In Use: Logitech G9, Razer Orochi, Fragnstein, MX Air, Orbita
Not on hand: Evoluent Vertical Mouse, Logitech G5, Razer Diamondback, Wacom Graphire 3

Offline nathanscribe

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 11 March 2011, 18:32:52 »
Quick question: for typing duties, how are the reds compared to, say, the blacks?  Lighter, but how does that affect use?

I'm currently using blues, but the tactility is not always pleasing... I kind of like the blacks, but they're a bit heavy.  I'm wondering if either a brown or (now) red would be more typing-friendly.
Conquering the world with BASIC since 1982

Offline noodles256

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 11 March 2011, 18:42:16 »
Quote from: nathanscribe;310155
Quick question: for typing duties, how are the reds compared to, say, the blacks?  Lighter, but how does that affect use?

I'm currently using blues, but the tactility is not always pleasing... I kind of like the blacks, but they're a bit heavy.  I'm wondering if either a brown or (now) red would be more typing-friendly.


brown is still tactile, it just doesn't have the click.  if you like the linear feel of black, but would like a lighter key than reds would be perfect for you. I have both browns and reds at the moment and I do like reds more. I had blacks, but the key was just to heavy for me to stick with it. I did like the linear feel of the Cherry MX blacks though which I believe is the reason I like reds so much.

hope this helps
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline Chobopants

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 11 March 2011, 19:27:32 »
Man, I really want a full size red Filco now. Maybe Leopold will fulfill my desire. As I would primarily use the keyboard for FPSs I'd really need the numpad since I mouse left handed. Here's hoping.
Realforce 87UW 45g - Filco Blue 87 - Filco Linear R - Filco Brown 104

Offline nathanscribe

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 05:42:05 »
Quote from: noodles256;310161
hope this helps


Yep, thanks.  Just got to justify the high UK price... and sneak it in under the radar of the cohabiting female.
Conquering the world with BASIC since 1982

Offline Arc'xer

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #58 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 15:16:21 »
Quote from: Chobopants;310179
Man, I really want a full size red Filco now. Maybe Leopold will fulfill my desire. As I would primarily use the keyboard for FPSs I'd really need the numpad since I mouse left handed. Here's hoping.

Yeah, shame it's not full-size. I've been using tenkeyless for a long while now but for some reason, I've been wanting one with a numpad. Though I hardly ever used a numpad actually if at all. I guess maybe I just want it in case I want to put it in use.

Speaking of full-sized; two more new MX red videos(Turn down the video volume to it's lowest while still hearing the typing to get an approximate sound of it in person):

Reposted next page
« Last Edit: Sat, 12 March 2011, 19:24:32 by Arc'xer »

Offline aremizu

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 17:42:09 »
I live in Japan.
It was a Japanese original layout, and I up-loaded the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daPmNzBJP5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6cbvHb5N0

This keyboard is the best in the linear keyboard after which I felt in the past. XD

Offline RiGS

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #60 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 17:53:36 »
You are typing way too hard. The whole point of the long key travel distance of a mechanical keyboard is avoiding the impact.
Now I get it. That's why the reason so many of you find mx blacks too "heavy".
I barely touch the surface of the keys.
« Last Edit: Sat, 12 March 2011, 18:07:25 by RiGS »
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline aremizu

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 18:13:22 »
I had been using the keyboard that adopted the key switch of heavy ALPS immediately before this keyboard was obtained.
Therefore, power seems to have entered too much.

thanks.

Offline keyboardlover

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #62 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 18:23:09 »
I thought that most people thought cherry blacks were too heavy was because they ARE too heavy?

Offline RiGS

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 18:53:55 »
You have been probably wrong. Also you are clearly biased against cherry blacks, you buttom out as well.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline noodles256

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 18:55:11 »
Quote from: aremizu;310715
I live in Japan.
It was a Japanese original layout, and I up-loaded the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daPmNzBJP5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6cbvHb5N0

This keyboard is the best in the linear keyboard after which I felt in the past. XD


Your typing is really loud. I don't think I have ever got my reds to make that type of noise so far.
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline bytemeavaj

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #65 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 19:47:45 »
Quote from: noodles256;310741
Your typing is really loud. I don't think I have ever got my reds to make that type of noise so far.


I don't think that's actually the reason. It's just that the camera makes it worse. I made a video too, and it sounds much louder played on the camera than it actually is in real life.

In real life its very soft and soothing.
I\'m a tool.

Offline noodles256

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 12 March 2011, 20:40:15 »
Quote from: bytemeavaj;310769
I don't think that's actually the reason. It's just that the camera makes it worse. I made a video too, and it sounds much louder played on the camera than it actually is in real life.

In real life its very soft and soothing.


that may be it. My video doesn't seem that loud, it must be the D5000
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline Engine

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 13:55:09 »
Thanks for those vids!  I'm trying to compare switches for a first "Cherry" board purchase.
In order of purchase:
Unicomp Space Saver(Black) - Topre Realforce 103U-UW -   Topre Realforce 103UB - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Blue - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Brown - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Blue - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Brown

Offline Khaotik55

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 16:42:56 »
I love the sound of red's when they bottom out. ARRRRGGH!!!

And mine would sound just like that too because of my speed and use of only a couple select fingers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXc5bakL86U

I can't make up my mind, Filco Red, or 28 inch monitor.

My brain is telling me monitor, my heart is telling me Filco. (I have a 19 inch monitor right now, and I have a choice of one of these two things.)
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 March 2011, 16:51:34 by Khaotik55 »

Offline RiGS

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 16:55:51 »
My two cents is you should get the monitor.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline vun

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 16:58:16 »
If you already have a mech 'board you're happy with I'd say monitor.
Then you can treat yourself to the red switches later as a reward for making the right choice.

Offline Khaotik55

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:09:12 »
Quote from: vun;311227
If you already have a mech 'board you're happy with I'd say monitor.
Then you can treat yourself to the red switches later as a reward for making the right choice.


I don't though, I sent back my XArmor. XD

Offline vun

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:26:59 »
Oh, then it's a slightly tougher choice. Still, 28" monitor sounds really tempting as long as the panel is decent.

Offline noodles256

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 18:29:33 »
I am so mobile, so I would get keyboard. Whatever fits into your life better is what you should get.
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline qvindtar

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #74 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 21:19:29 »
Thanks for the reviews and videos! I think I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on my first mechanical board - mostly going to use it for rts gaming with some typing and have had a tough time decided between blues browns or reds. This pretty much seals it :)
Metallic Blue Filco with MX Browns Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4k, Logitech G11

Offline keyboardlover

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #75 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 21:24:34 »
I agree, nice video! I've just seen this now and the Filco with reds looks and sounds absolutely lovely.

P.S. Welcome to GeekHack qvindtar!

Offline majestouch

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 21:45:12 »
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from purchasing a product EK no longer distributes (FILCO), but why would someone want Reds over Blues or Browns for RTS games?

The linear switch is an advantage for FPS games or activities where you visually confirm each action (firing a weapon) on a millisecond basis, but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die. With tactile switches you don't even need to look at the screen, you know from your finger reaching the point of tactility that your command has been sent and you can move on to the next screen or set of actions; i.e. starcraft.

Offline neo

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 21:46:24 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;311339
I agree, nice video! I've just seen this now and the Filco with reds looks and sounds absolutely lovely.


KL said something nice about Filco. Nobody tell ripster or he'll freak out.

Offline noodles256

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #78 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 22:54:40 »
Quote from: majestouch;311343
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from purchasing a product EK no longer distributes (FILCO), but why would someone want Reds over Blues or Browns for RTS games?

The linear switch is an advantage for FPS games or activities where you visually confirm each action (firing a weapon) on a millisecond basis, but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die. With tactile switches you don't even need to look at the screen, you know from your finger reaching the point of tactility that your command has been sent and you can move on to the next screen or set of actions; i.e. starcraft.

I still don't think any switch should be tied to specific types of game. I really think switches is based off personal preference.
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline EZjiji

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 23:02:27 »
There are several RTS gamers currently using Steelseries 6V2 and 7G who appear to be doing fine. I'd say most gamers bottom out their keys and don't really care for that 'bump.'

Offline 3one5

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 23:17:33 »
Blues, Reds, Browns, Blacks....... The only solution is to get 1 of each.

Offline noodles256

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #81 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 23:23:26 »
Quote from: 3one5;311370
Blues, Reds, Browns, Blacks....... The only solution is to get 1 of each.


forgot clears!
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline Armando Penblade

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #82 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 23:42:54 »
And, apparently, "vintage" variations of most of the above. . . and MLs. . . and that's just one manufacturer!
Filco Majestouch 104-US, Metallic Blue, with Chery MX Blues  //  Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000, 104-US + Media Keys & Browser Controls  //  iRocks RF-6570 Cordless 104-US, 2.4GHz Wireless, White  //  SteelSeries 6Gv2 104-US, Black, with Cherry MX Blacks

Offline disco123

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 03:17:41 »
Quote from: 3one5;311370
Blues, Reds, Browns, Blacks....... The only solution is to get 1 of each.

Topre also, I did.
Mech. KBs:
Filco 10Keyless Red, Brown;
Filco 10keymore Brown, Black, Blue;
Topre Realforce 86 U;
Cherry G80-3494 Red.
G80-1865 Red (in the mail),
KBtalKing Pure (60% KB, red SW; in the making)
Rubber dome
Dell SK-8115

Offline Spiner

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 05:21:57 »
Quote from: majestouch;311343
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from purchasing a product EK no longer distributes (FILCO), but why would someone want Reds over Blues or Browns for RTS games?

The linear switch is an advantage for FPS games or activities where you visually confirm each action (firing a weapon) on a millisecond basis, but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die. With tactile switches you don't even need to look at the screen, you know from your finger reaching the point of tactility that your command has been sent and you can move on to the next screen or set of actions; i.e. starcraft.


Actually I have both blues and reds and reds are better for gaming, and I like them better for starcraft 2.  For gaming, you want consistency with the keys.  Tactile switch is better for typing IMO.

Offline RiGS

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 08:50:32 »
Quote
but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die. With tactile switches you don't even need to look at the screen, you know from your finger reaching the point of tactility that your command has been sent and you can move on to the next screen or set of actions; i.e. starcraft.

A good gamer doesn't need any kind of tactility to be consistent with key presses.
Also while playing a fast RTS like Strarcraft 2 you won't feel the tactility of the browns, so basically the red is a better overall gaming switch.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline pm_

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 11:28:14 »
Quote from: majestouch;311343

The linear switch is an advantage for FPS games or activities where you visually confirm each action (firing a weapon) on a millisecond basis, but in an RTS game a lot of the action happens well after you've pressed a key, and sitting around watching for a command you made to occur is a very certain way to die.


Could you please elaborate?  Personally, for gaming, I don't feel there's an inherent advantage to any single switch over the other, including FPS games. What's most important is having a switch you are comfortable with and does not fatigue you.  

Is there a technically measurable difference between actuation speed between any of the cherry switches?  There's nothing that I've been able to personally perceive so far, having tried all three switches.  I'm using blues right now, blacks were too stiff (especially the space bar), and I have a Leopold with browns on order.  I didn't use blacks for long, but that's because, to me, and to most people, they required too much force.

Offline pm_

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #87 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 11:30:43 »
Quote from: RiGS;311502
A good gamer doesn't need any kind of tactility to be consistent with key presses.
Also while playing a fast RTS like Strarcraft 2 you won't feel the tactility of the browns, so basically the red is a better overall gaming switch.


So you're inferring that tactility adversely affects performance?  Is this an opinion or can you technically back it up?

Offline RiGS

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 14:34:43 »
Quote from: pm_;311560
So you're inferring that tactility adversely affects performance?  Is this an opinion or can you technically back it up?


Nope. It doesn't matter at all.
My point was that tactility is overrated, and absolutely not necessary.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline .XL

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 21:42:30 »
My girlfriend and I have come to the conclusion that the Reds feel like typing on clouds of boobs. I want one now...but I have this sexy white filco sitting on my desk. AAAAHHH DECISIONS
Keyboards: Filco Majestouch-2 87key Browns - Realforce 103UB 55g - Compaq MX11800 (ghetto clears + doubleshots)

Offline Armando Penblade

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 21:53:03 »
That actually sounds pretty terrifying. I think it would look like the last 15 minutes of Akira.
Filco Majestouch 104-US, Metallic Blue, with Chery MX Blues  //  Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000, 104-US + Media Keys & Browser Controls  //  iRocks RF-6570 Cordless 104-US, 2.4GHz Wireless, White  //  SteelSeries 6Gv2 104-US, Black, with Cherry MX Blacks

Offline stereotada

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 21:58:20 »
still waiting for the full size to show up on amazon. anybody have any idea when it will be up?

Offline Armando Penblade

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #92 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 23:21:27 »
Tenkeyless in keyboard, teninch more in pants, wise old Confucius say!

Wait, I've got a ten-key keyboard :(
Filco Majestouch 104-US, Metallic Blue, with Chery MX Blues  //  Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000, 104-US + Media Keys & Browser Controls  //  iRocks RF-6570 Cordless 104-US, 2.4GHz Wireless, White  //  SteelSeries 6Gv2 104-US, Black, with Cherry MX Blacks

Offline .XL

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #93 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 23:28:39 »
Quote from: Armando Penblade;311909
Wait, I've got a ten-key keyboard :(

Hey everyone, this guy has an inverted penis!!!!

And I'd rather have the cherry reds...
Keyboards: Filco Majestouch-2 87key Browns - Realforce 103UB 55g - Compaq MX11800 (ghetto clears + doubleshots)

Offline stereotada

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 23:34:04 »
ok sure. I wouldn't mind getting a tenkeyless but some games i play require the numpad.

Offline drsauced

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 00:14:37 »
Wait, what happened to teh boobies?

Talk about cloud computing!
Filco Ninja 104 Tactile w/Imsto PBT caps | Deck Legend Ice Linear | FC200RT Clear w/Danger Zone | Topre 87U 45g EK | '89 & '93 1391401 | Ping is Life

Offline jdreamer

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 02:18:51 »
I want that cloud of boobs as well....
My life for Aiur!

Offline majestouch

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 02:31:18 »
Quote from: pm_;311558
Could you please elaborate?  Personally, for gaming, I don't feel there's an inherent advantage to any single switch over the other, including FPS games. What's most important is having a switch you are comfortable with and does not fatigue you.

Is there a technically measurable difference between actuation speed between any of the cherry switches?  There's nothing that I've been able to personally perceive so far, having tried all three switches.  I'm using blues right now, blacks were too stiff (especially the space bar), and I have a Leopold with browns on order.  I didn't use blacks for long, but that's because, to me, and to most people, they required too much force.


If there isn't an inherent advantage of one switch for any particular style of game, then there isn't an inherent advantage to a mechanical switch over a rubber membrane switch.

A simple analogy:

A great chef can cook good food with poor tools, but you give him a great set of tools and he can work magic. Give an amateur cook those same great tools and you still get amateur food...

...but that amateur might just learn the nuances of those great tools over time.

When you're playing an FPS game, every extra frame, bit of mouse sensitivity, and reduction in latency = the difference between life or death in certain situations. So, to maximize your potential to make the most of every situation, you need the best tool for the job. No; from top to bottom, linear switches cannot be pressed in faster succession than a tactile switch, but near the point of actuation, a linear switch has finer control of when the actuation occurs.

Linear switch in-game:
Advantage: precision control of actuation timing and repetition
Disadvantage: you must SEE the actuation has occurred on-screen *

* Gorillas need not repeat their "gamers just bottom-out" mantra; they might as well use a $10 membrane board and pound away. There's little advantage to a mechanical if you're too cool to learn how to make the most of it.

Tactile switches in-game:
Advantage: No visual confirmation of actuation required **
Disadvantage: Tactility limits precision of actuation timing and repetition (hysteresis in blues)

** I.E. move to a part of a starcraft map, toss out 20 keystrokes worth of commands, and move to the next part of the map with confidence that all 20 keystrokes were sent - if you had used linear switches and were in a hurry, you might have pressed 1 of 20 switches just .1mm shy of the point of actuation and you would not know it. Doh!

Splitting hairs? Probably, but if gaming is your priority, then you might want the tool which gives you the most potential advantage. Pros learn how to use their tools to the most advantage. To say a switch fits your "personal preference" can be a declaration of confidence or an admission of complacency; it all depends on the users knowledge and determination.

Offline pm_

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Filco Majestouch-2 Cherry MX Red First Impressions
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 03:57:13 »
Quote from: majestouch;311963

When you're playing an FPS game, every extra frame, bit of mouse sensitivity, and reduction in latency = the difference between life or death in certain situations. So, to maximize your potential to make the most of every situation, you need the best tool for the job. No; from top to bottom, linear switches cannot be pressed in faster succession than a tactile switch, but near the point of actuation, a linear switch has finer control of when the actuation occurs.

Linear switch in-game:
Advantage: precision control of actuation timing and repetition
Disadvantage: you must SEE the actuation has occurred on-screen *

* Gorillas need not repeat their "gamers just bottom-out" mantra; they might as well use a $10 membrane board and pound away. There's little advantage to a mechanical if you're too cool to learn how to make the most of it.

Tactile switches in-game:
Advantage: No visual confirmation of actuation required **
Disadvantage: Tactility limits precision of actuation timing and repetition (hysteresis in blues)

** I.E. move to a part of a starcraft map, toss out 20 keystrokes worth of commands, and move to the next part of the map with confidence that all 20 keystrokes were sent - if you had used linear switches and were in a hurry, you might have pressed 1 of 20 switches just .1mm shy of the point of actuation and you would not know it. Doh!

Splitting hairs? Probably, but if gaming is your priority, then you might want the tool which gives you the most potential advantage. Pros learn how to use their tools to the most advantage. To say a switch fits your "personal preference" can be a declaration of confidence or an admission of complacency; it all depends on the users knowledge and determination.


I think you're splitting hairs. :)

Some background about me first.  
I played in top clans for Quake 1 (Negative Burn) and Quake 3 (The Stickmen)...not that I'm expecting anyone to recognize them offhand.  Some of this was starting on Team Deathmatch squads, and some of it was not, but does include a money finish for TDM back at Frag 3, if I'm remembering the correct event.  I've never been much of a dueller, but I think I qualify as Pro on both technical and skill level fronts, and have played a lot of other Pros over the years.

I've used a Keytronic Designer for many years, am currently using a Ducky with blues, test drove a Cherry with blacks, and have used a Cherry with browns for 2-3 weeks.  I have a 10 keyless Leopold with browns on order, which will replace this Ducky.  I hope Leopold eventually makes, and you end up carrying, a format similar to the Noppoo Choc Mini.  ;)

From an FPS standpoint, there probably is no advantage strictly based on whether you use a rubber dome or a mechanical switch.  
What matters is:
1. Key Rollover: 5 or higher is probably fine for an FPS
2. Desk space: 10keyless or smaller
3. Feel/comfort: something you are happy with
4. Keystroke consistency

I stated the above first, because you asked people not to "repeat their "gamers just bottom-out" mantra, but I think most, if not all, FPS players bottom out.  Because of the preceding reasons, most $10 membrane keyboards belong in the circular file.  

Regarding Linear vs Tactile switches in games:
Whether a switch is audible or not is irrelevant as hard core and pro gamers are using headphones and listening to in game sounds, not their keyboards. Muscle memory knows the amount of distance required to activate whatever switch type they are using.  Most users will probably bottom out, but whether they do nor not is irrelevant, as, so long as your muscles have memorized where that activation point is, the hypothetically finer precision in the exact point of activation of a linear vs a tactile switch becomes irrelevant.  It's simply a matter of whether you are consistently able to activate it in a repeatable and predictable fashion or not.  This is my experience with FPS games.

I don't play RTS, but I figure this holds true there as well.  I read something about some of the Asian pros actually using sound blocking head "sets" with earbuds underneath, so as to block out sounds.  Also, when running 150-200 APM average, and maybe 400 APM peak, I just don't see how they can divert attention to audible click feedback from the keyboard; they're concentrating on the visual and audio feedback from the game, as well as the next 20 things they have to do.

In summary, I don't think audible feedback or tactility are particularly relevant for gaming.  It comes down to the key rollover, desk space, feel/comfort, and keystroke consistency.  It's part personal preference, and part technical.

Thank you for elaborating, although I disagree with a bit of what you stated.

Offline Shuki

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« Reply #99 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 04:07:06 »
I totally agree, it's funny what people who don't play a lot of games would perceive as useful for playing games. In theory it might makes sense, but in practice it is pretty much what you said:

1. Key Rollover: 5 or higher is probably fine for an FPS
2. Desk space: 10keyless or smaller
3. Feel/comfort: something you are happy with
4. Keystroke consistency

As with gamers "always bottoming out" I think people say that because it is generally true. When strafe jumping in quake games its natural to think the harder you hit the keys the further you will go (ofc not the case). However when you want to respond as fast as possible (as is the case in most games) you will put in the most force possible to active the switch as quickly as possible and hence bottom out.