Post by: JSaintS on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:05:04
Snappo, Duckboi and I decided to create this new thread to mark the beginning of our collaboration as well as giving a fresh start to the keyset.
(https://i.imgur.com/nkEwpIi.jpg)
S7-Elephant (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96434.0) rendered by Janglad (https://clavier.xyz/renders)
GMK Monochrome
This collaboration was first announced under the name Stormtrooper Redux. That said, after talking to GMK, and for licensing purposes, they asked us to check with Disney (or change it). Same goes for the novelties which is why we put them on pause. Novelty-wise, even if we got the approval from Disney, that kit would have a MOQ of 250 units and we are not sure we would reach it. Since we are slowly moving away from the theme, we decided to go back to monochrome :) Sorry for all the confusion guys <2
Kits
Colors:
Alphas: CR on WS2
Modifiers: WS2 on CR
WS2 color comparison:
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=90220.0;attach=172362)
Core Kit
(http://i.imgur.com/8qNaarV.png)
Compatibility Kit
(https://i.imgur.com/GW4BB6P.png)
Extras
I am an artisan lovers, and we decided we would keep the artisans.
- Alphakeycaps is on board and there will be a raffle for his Jedi Blinker (http://i.imgur.com/OPYGr9W.jpg). We will produce around 10 of those and they will be raffled between GB participants; and
- RAMA offered to produce this beauty, a black anodised X or O keycap with laser edged white stars (subtle but stunning). Those keycap will thus come in either black ano only, for $36 each (visible on the right picture), or with laser etched stars (which I think look fan-tastic) for $38 each (visible on the left picture). (prices for Europe will be a little higher unfortunately due to import fees). There is a combined MOQ of 50 (which I am sure we will easily hit) and everyone can buy them and everyone can buy as many as they want.
(http://i.imgur.com/XvAI1Vu.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/seTYmaJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LCZdkIg.jpg)
M6_A by RAMA (https://ramaworks.store/products/m6-b)[/siz
e]M6_A by RAMA (https://ramaworks.store/products/m6-b)[/siz
Vendors & Prices
- MyKeyboard.eu (https://mykeyboard.eu) for Europe, ;
- Kono.store for the States; and
- zFrontier (https://en.zfrontier.com/) for the rest of the world.
Here at the prices:
| Vendors | Base kit (MOQ 150) | Compatibility kit (MOQ 150) | RAMA X/O | RAMA Laser-etched X/O | ||||
| MyKeyboard (EU)1 | 125€ | 36€ | 42€ | 44€ | ||||
| KONO (USA) | $140 | $40 | $36 | $38 | ||||
| zFrontier (Asia)2 | $1402|$1553 | $40|$45 | $36 | $38 |
1 After discussing it with the EU vendor, we brought the price even more. We cannot do much more on it, so I hope that price works for you guys <3
2 Please note that all their prices include shipping whilst that is not the case for other vendors.
3 Prices on the left are for China, prices on the right are for the other countries (price difference explained by the difference in shipping costs)
FAQ:
Q: What kind of homing keys will this support?
A: The set includes both scooped and barred F & J keys.
Q: Why is ISO in the extras kit?
A: We have noticed that, for the most part, the majority of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts do not use ISO.
By taking these keys out of the base we can lower pricing for everyone else.
However, we aren’t opposed to combining the kits, or moving ISO to the base kit, if it does not increase the price by too much.
Q: Why Icon mods?
A: We think this looks cleanest and fits the vision of the set the best.
Renders
(https://i.imgur.com/a0yBxqo.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/1x6WWOk.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/i4bv3t8.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/VU14G7C.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/lt4iJnF.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/NgjgSbR.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/lc5OmjM.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Jfx93Eo.jpg[/img [img]https://i.imgur.com/v47lhlY.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/lt4iJnF.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/EZkRhA7.jpg)
Support the keyset, slap this is your signature :D
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96541.0][img width=277 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/GbLAeTy.png[/img]Log:
More
08/07: put a pause on the novelty kit as long as we wait for an answer from Disney.
09/07: Name change.
More
Novelty Kit - a.k.a. the one that may never see the light of day
(http://i.imgur.com/hRyx5sq.png)
Here is what will change:
(http://i.imgur.com/hRyx5sq.png)
Here is what will change:
- the R4 1u novelties will be changed for 1.5u novelties;
- the novelties will be doubled (four 1.25u instead of two, etc.); and
- a couple of red novelties will be added with a black Empire logo.
09/07: Name change.
Post by: Snappo on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:07:32
Post by: wixxzblu on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:08:03
I also like icon mods a bit more.
I would suggest doing a red stormtrooper novelty, everybody likes red. Also add R3 page up, R4 page down for people who like to run the new standard for 65/75%.
R1 Home
R2 End
R3 Page up
R4 Page down
Post by: PaultheSloth on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:19:14
Post by: Kerasan on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:22:33
KMK Labs.
Post by: duckboi on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:23:45
Post by: Wilba on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:26:28
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/563c788ae4b099120ae219e2/5aafa81b758d463a2268c4ce/5aafa81b562fa7d5c73c2191/1521461295107/RAMA-M60-A-03.677.jpg)
Post by: Tonkatonk on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:30:08
Post by: Kerasan on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:34:16
Smart move to merge sets. I'm still liking it :PShow Image(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/563c788ae4b099120ae219e2/5aafa81b758d463a2268c4ce/5aafa81b562fa7d5c73c2191/1521461295107/RAMA-M60-A-03.677.jpg)
on m60 kuro and moon will be fine, maybe even on silver
KMK Labs.
Post by: avid on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:38:07
Why not make separate kits for all "fringe" layouts, such as WKL?
Post by: duckboi on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:42:39
really dislike the removal of iso. ISO needs 4 keys (enter,shift, r3, r4).
Why not make separate kits for all "fringe" layouts, such as WKL?
You may have missed it but ISO is in the extras. We covered this in the original post.
"Q: Why is ISO in the extras kit?
A: We have noticed that, for the most part, the majority of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts do not use ISO.
By taking these keys out of the base we can lower pricing for everyone else.
However, we aren’t opposed to combining the kits, or moving ISO to the base kit, if it does not increase the price by too much."
Post by: xondat on Sun, 08 July 2018, 08:55:52
Numpad in extra kit when? ;)
As I said on both threads, I like it.
Post by: LightningXI on Sun, 08 July 2018, 09:01:45
This is great, i agree that ISO keys should never be a part of the base kit.I am in favor of this.
I also like icon mods a bit more.
I would suggest doing a red stormtrooper novelty, everybody likes red. Also add R3 page up, R4 page down for people who like to run the new standard for 65/75%.
R1 Home
R2 End
R3 Page up
R4 Page down
However I am against the following:
- removal of split spacebar support
- the R4 1u novelties will be changed for 1.5u novelties
I'd personally love using the Star Wars themed novelties as 1u R4 keys. It'd be neat if that option were available for Winkey users. Split spacebars have become more and more popular lately and supported widely across more PCBs. Removing support for them seems exclusive.
Isn't there already an Fn 1u R4 key? Will a second be added according to the current OP?
Finally, I would like to suggest changing the "purse" Caps Lock icon to the downward facing arrow that is used in GMK Skidata, GMK 9009 R2, etc
Sent from my mobile using Tapatalk
Post by: Snappo on Sun, 08 July 2018, 09:02:31
This is great, i agree that ISO keys should never be a part of the base kit.
I also like icon mods a bit more.
I would suggest doing a red stormtrooper novelty, everybody likes red. Also add R3 page up, R4 page down for people who like to run the new standard for 65/75%.
R1 Home
R2 End
R3 Page up
R4 Page down
Smart move to merge sets. I'm still liking it :PShow Image(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/563c788ae4b099120ae219e2/5aafa81b758d463a2268c4ce/5aafa81b562fa7d5c73c2191/1521461295107/RAMA-M60-A-03.677.jpg)
I'm in when it goes to GB.
Yeah, im ready. Faboulous collaboration.
KMK Labs.
The pinnacle of bow and wob keysets. I'll be waiting for it to hit novelkeys.
As I said on both threads, I like it.
Thanks for the support :)
Good to see ISO not in the base kit.
Numpad in extra kit when? ;)
Haha :P
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 08 July 2018, 09:35:00
we are going to remove the split spacebars.
Are you going to have a spacebar kit? I'd love to in some way be able to get 2x 2U spacebars...
Post by: SolidCactus on Sun, 08 July 2018, 09:35:44
Post by: JSaintS on Sun, 08 July 2018, 09:55:12
Are you going to have a spacebar kit? I'd love to in some way be able to get 2x 2U spacebars...
However I am against the following:
- removal of split spacebar support
This is in the talk right now, we might decide to keep them in the extra kit.
Loving the WS2. This looks like the definitive BoW set in my opinion. I’m all in!Why thank you :3
However I am against the following:
- the R4 1u novelties will be changed for 1.5u novelties
I'd personally love using the Star Wars themed novelties as 1u R4 keys. It'd be neat if that option were available for Winkey users. Split spacebars have become more and more popular lately and supported widely across more PCBs. Removing support for them seems exclusive.
Isn't there already an Fn 1u R4 key? Will a second be added according to the current OP?
Finally, I would like to suggest changing the "purse" Caps Lock icon to the downward facing arrow that is used in GMK Skidata, GMK 9009 R2, etc
- We are going to change the capslock icon :) it has been request to GMK;
- As for the novelties, I think, for the moment, it's better to wait for a reply from Disney. I am "hidding" them from the OP in the mean time (you can still see them at the bottom of the post); and
- yes, we are going to add a second R4 1u FN key in the core kit.
Post by: Dennyroxsox on Sun, 08 July 2018, 11:46:28
Post by: Francisco on Sun, 08 July 2018, 12:21:33
Post by: otanishock on Sun, 08 July 2018, 14:05:19
Post by: duckboi on Sun, 08 July 2018, 14:10:25
Any chance of including those split spacebars in the base kit?
Probably not. Those are expected to stay in the extras kit.
Post by: Corgiattackkk on Sun, 08 July 2018, 17:53:18
Post by: phorx on Sun, 08 July 2018, 18:25:50
Post by: JSaintS on Mon, 09 July 2018, 07:49:28
This collaboration was first announced under the name Stormtrooper Redux. That said, after talking to GMK, and for licensing purposes, they asked us to check with Disney (or change it). Same goes for the novelties which is why we put them on pause. Novelty-wise, even if we got the approval from Disney, that kit would have a MOQ of 250 units and we are not sure we would reach it. Since we are slowly moving away from the theme, we decided to go back to monochrome :slight_smile: Sorry for all the confusion guys <2
Post by: Kerasan on Mon, 09 July 2018, 08:49:09
Update
This collaboration was first announced under the name Stormtrooper Redux. That said, after talking to GMK, and for licensing purposes, they asked us to check with Disney (or change it). Same goes for the novelties which is why we put them on pause. Novelty-wise, even if we got the approval from Disney, that kit would have a MOQ of 250 units and we are not sure we would reach it. Since we are slowly moving away from the theme, we decided to go back to monochrome :slight_smile: Sorry for all the confusion guys <2
I was hoping for it :'(
KMK Labs
Post by: Koatl on Mon, 09 July 2018, 11:50:55
Thanks for the updates!
Post by: donutcat on Mon, 09 July 2018, 11:54:47
Post by: JSaintS on Mon, 09 July 2018, 13:00:38
Why would the novelties have an MOQ of 250? They weren't using custom colors were they?
this is what Michael told me:
"Since these are new symbols the normal MOQ would be 250."
I have no idea if this is even remotely true or not, but that's a direct copy/paste from the mail he sent me this morning :)
Post by: elfick on Mon, 09 July 2018, 13:13:42
Post by: JSaintS on Mon, 09 July 2018, 13:19:26
I don't think you'll have any trouble hitting 250 for star wars themed novelties. Getting Disney's approval would be the issue and even if they do approve, they'll probably want it run under their property licensing system.
Oh yeah MOQ is but a secondary problem, getting their approval is the real issue here. I'll update you guys when I get an answer but this can get from 4 to 8 weeks according to their automatic email, so who knows when that will be :p
Post by: hayt on Mon, 09 July 2018, 13:27:58
Post by: donutcat on Mon, 09 July 2018, 13:42:52
Why would the novelties have an MOQ of 250? They weren't using custom colors were they?
this is what Michael told me:
"Since these are new symbols the normal MOQ would be 250."
I have no idea if this is even remotely true or not, but that's a direct copy/paste from the mail he sent me this morning :)
That's weird because that's contrary to all of my dealings with GMK that concerned custom legends/icons. It was Michael I was in contact with for GMK Heck-keys, and they were a custom mold with only 150 MOQ, so that's what it should be unless they've recently changed their requirements on that.
Post by: AlphaAnt on Mon, 09 July 2018, 15:22:38
Why would the novelties have an MOQ of 250? They weren't using custom colors were they?
this is what Michael told me:
"Since these are new symbols the normal MOQ would be 250."
I have no idea if this is even remotely true or not, but that's a direct copy/paste from the mail he sent me this morning :)
If we're going to have to hit that MOQ anyway, we should go full on Aurabesh alphas. ;D
Post by: JSaintS on Mon, 09 July 2018, 15:28:50
Why would the novelties have an MOQ of 250? They weren't using custom colors were they?
this is what Michael told me:
"Since these are new symbols the normal MOQ would be 250."
I have no idea if this is even remotely true or not, but that's a direct copy/paste from the mail he sent me this morning :)
That's weird because that's contrary to all of my dealings with GMK that concerned custom legends/icons. It was Michael I was in contact with for GMK Heck-keys, and they were a custom mold with only 150 MOQ, so that's what it should be unless they've recently changed their requirements on that.
Yes I am talking to Michael as well (I'm wondering if he is not the only guy there haha). I sent him another mail to clarify this, a MOQ of 150 would make it really more accessible I feel like. Thanks for sharing this, I hope it will get things moving a little bit (though the licensing problem remains).
Post by: donutcat on Mon, 09 July 2018, 18:13:58
Yes I am talking to Michael as well (I'm wondering if he is not the only guy there haha). I sent him another mail to clarify this, a MOQ of 150 would make it really more accessible I feel like. Thanks for sharing this, I hope it will get things moving a little bit (though the licensing problem remains).
I've only really got proof of three different people working there, so it's not just Michael at least. Also, for the licensing, it's kinda a shame you already let Disney know what you were doing. For the most part, a very low run item like GMK sets would be able to get away with icons and stuff that were reasonably different/derivative enough to not gain a company's attention. Once they're aware of something that might be similar though, they have to act to protect their trademark if they think it's close enough to infringe. I think you would have been able to get away with it personally.
If we're going to have to hit that MOQ anyway, we should go full on Aurabesh alphas. ;D
That'd be insanely expensive though, 1€ per alpha, per set, so at least +26€ per set at 150 MOQ, more if you wanted to do numpad, numrow, punctuation, etc for *full* alpha coverage.
Post by: Yeoh on Mon, 09 July 2018, 20:35:28
Post by: Tonkatonk on Tue, 10 July 2018, 00:29:01
Post by: darthzero on Tue, 10 July 2018, 02:52:38
That's not really what he asked, let me rephrase for him with a grain of salt added by me: Why not make a TKL base, as we've noticed that, for the most part, the majority of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts do not use ANYTHING ELSE.really dislike the removal of iso. ISO needs 4 keys (enter,shift, r3, r4).
Why not make separate kits for all "fringe" layouts, such as WKL?
You may have missed it but ISO is in the extras. We covered this in the original post.
"Q: Why is ISO in the extras kit?
A: We have noticed that, for the most part, the majority of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts do not use ISO.
By taking these keys out of the base we can lower pricing for everyone else.
However, we aren’t opposed to combining the kits, or moving ISO to the base kit, if it does not increase the price by too much."
Also forcing split space bar, windowed and OS keys on ISO users. Not only makes it this kit more expensive (imho the main reason ppl don't buy NorDeUk kits),but if you think not many people care for ISO anyway it's basically a dead kit (moq...).
What would i do for some hard numbers on ppl using what layouts, i feel full size, 1800 and wkl are as rare as ISO is. And ISO as he said needs 4-5 keys.
greetz
a salty iso user
Post by: donutcat on Tue, 10 July 2018, 03:15:12
That's not really what he asked, let me rephrase for him with a grain of salt added by me: Why not make a TKL base, as we've noticed that, for the most part, the majority of mechanical keyboard enthusiasts do not use ANYTHING ELSE.
Also forcing split space bar, windowed and OS keys on ISO users. Not only makes it this kit more expensive (imho the main reason ppl don't buy NorDeUk kits),but if you think not many people care for ISO anyway it's basically a dead kit (moq...).
What would i do for some hard numbers on ppl using what layouts, i feel full size, 1800 and wkl are as rare as ISO is. And ISO as he said needs 4-5 keys.
greetz
a salty iso user
This argument happens every time something like this happens and the result is usually the same: that ISO is borderline worth supporting and can fall either way.
The way GMK prices kits it's always cheaper to have things in a single kit vs split up like SP wants. Due to this, you can end up with a frankly massive base kit that costs way less than a comparable SA setup. Because of this, it's smart to include as much "normal" compatibility in there as possible, such as WKL, 1800, etc, most of which will not only cover that specific layout, but others as well. For instance, 1800 shares it's bottom row with WKL, which will share part of its bottom row with 65/75% boards, which will share right shift with 1800, etc. Not only that, the argument can be made that these layouts have a huge amount of popularity in the community. TKL is stupid popular, especially among the Kustoms folks, as is 1800 to a degree, 65% has been very popular this year with lots of boards using it released, almost every board that a noob starts with nowadays is a fullsize "gamer" board, the list of justification for including their support goes on and on.
On the other hand, the main argument against ISO is the poor performance of specialized ISO kits in almost every single GB they are run with. I've keep a spreadsheet(slightly outdated) to track their performance with GMK sets seeing ~5% of base kit purchase numbers in ISO kit purchases, SP sets seeing ~8%, and finally XDA seeing around 11%. It's easy to see that the people that repeatedly ask for these kits to be included in GBs simply aren't supporting the kits when they do get put into the set, resulting in lost time and effort on the part of the designer, the runner, and anyone else involved.
I will make it known that personally I care enough about not alienating the EU crowd to include at least the basic ISO support if not more than that. Even though this is the way I feel about it, it's very easy for me to see how the numbers are actually going and understand why people decide that ISO isn't worth it. At times it does add an additional $5 to the base set, for GMK sets, sometimes even more, and that can be enough to drive away potential sales. Unfortunately, with every GB that happens it's more and more evident how ISO is teetering on the point of not having enough representation in the community to justify the added costs for everyone else.
Post by: darthzero on Tue, 10 July 2018, 09:32:10
If NorDE kits are the main argument against ISO support then it's a pretty poor argument. If ISO-UK is supported in the base set then most eu folks will not get the NorDe kit, it's most of the time half the price of the base set and that's just not worth it in the most cases. (Again this is all my opinion base of how i do feel about this!) Wrong legends are one thing, not being able to fill a board is another.
On the other hand, the main argument against ISO is the poor performance of specialized ISO kits in almost every single GB they are run with. I've keep a spreadsheet(slightly outdated) to track their performance with GMK sets seeing ~5% of base kit purchase numbers in ISO kit purchases, SP sets seeing ~8%, and finally XDA seeing around 11%. It's easy to see that the people that repeatedly ask for these kits to be included in GBs simply aren't supporting the kits when they do get put into the set, resulting in lost time and effort on the part of the designer, the runner, and anyone else involved.
I will make it known that personally I care enough about not alienating the EU crowd to include at least the basic ISO support if not more than that. Even though this is the way I feel about it, it's very easy for me to see how the numbers are actually going and understand why people decide that ISO isn't worth it. At times it does add an additional $5 to the base set, for GMK sets, sometimes even more, and that can be enough to drive away potential sales. Unfortunately, with every GB that happens it's more and more evident how ISO is teetering on the point of not having enough representation in the community to justify the added costs for everyone else.
It would be nice to know how many sets (%) with this basic ISO support get sold to europe. This is still a rough estimate because in eu are people who use ANSI as well but it would be closer to the real numbers than the NorDe kits numbers.
Also thank you for your support and not wanting to alienate eu folks. And while this set will easily hit the moq i might remind everyone who screams "frack ISO users" that there were GBs and there are still sets today that need help from everywhere it can get it.
As a side note, i'm a total TKL nerd and don't like 60% that much (even if i got a few) and fullsize is just ****ty for gaming^^ but i'm NOT saying that every other layout should be cut to save cost. We should all get our cakes <3 I'm paying for 30 keys i don't need so could "you" (not you donut).
And if this hobby gets 10 times bigger and something like TKL ANSI only base sets will be a thing (because of a big enough user base) we should all sit together and talk about those color way ownership stuff^^
Edit: Sorry for abusing this thread, while it may apply here too it's more of a general topic that i would like to discuss in-depth but not in this thread :)
Post by: JSaintS on Tue, 10 July 2018, 10:08:18
If NorDE kits are the main argument against ISO support then it's a pretty poor argument. If ISO-UK is supported in the base set then most eu folks will not get the NorDe kit, it's most of the time half the price of the base set and that's just not worth it in the most cases. (Again this is all my opinion base of how i do feel about this!) Wrong legends are one thing, not being able to fill a board is another.
On the other hand, the main argument against ISO is the poor performance of specialized ISO kits in almost every single GB they are run with. I've keep a spreadsheet(slightly outdated) to track their performance with GMK sets seeing ~5% of base kit purchase numbers in ISO kit purchases, SP sets seeing ~8%, and finally XDA seeing around 11%. It's easy to see that the people that repeatedly ask for these kits to be included in GBs simply aren't supporting the kits when they do get put into the set, resulting in lost time and effort on the part of the designer, the runner, and anyone else involved.
I will make it known that personally I care enough about not alienating the EU crowd to include at least the basic ISO support if not more than that. Even though this is the way I feel about it, it's very easy for me to see how the numbers are actually going and understand why people decide that ISO isn't worth it. At times it does add an additional $5 to the base set, for GMK sets, sometimes even more, and that can be enough to drive away potential sales. Unfortunately, with every GB that happens it's more and more evident how ISO is teetering on the point of not having enough representation in the community to justify the added costs for everyone else.
It would be nice to know how many sets (%) with this basic ISO support get sold to europe. This is still a rough estimate because in eu are people who use ANSI as well but it would be closer to the real numbers than the NorDe kits numbers.
Also thank you for your support and not wanting to alienate eu folks. And while this set will easily hit the moq i might remind everyone who screams "frack ISO users" that there were GBs and there are still sets today that need help from everywhere it can get it.
As a side note, i'm a total TKL nerd and don't like 60% that much (even if i got a few) and fullsize is just ****ty for gaming^^ but i'm NOT saying that every other layout should be cut to save cost. We should all get our cakes <3 I'm paying for 30 keys i don't need so could "you" (not you donut).
And if this hobby gets 10 times bigger and something like TKL ANSI only base sets will be a thing (because of a big enough user base) we should all sit together and talk about those color way ownership stuff^^
Edit: Sorry for abusing this thread, while it may apply here too it's more of a general topic that i would like to discuss in-depth but not in this thread :)
I totally agree on that, mainly because I am an iso only user, I want that to be clear. Unfortunately for me/us, there seem to be a trend to get rid of that (I like what zambumon did with two different base kits) and I can understand why many just drop it to get to price a little lower. It's a trend you also see with keyboards with the Xeno 75 for example.
The problem nowadays is that we have a trillion gmk Keyset and only that much money in our wallets and if we want to hit MOQ that's the type of sacrifices we need to do (as donutcat mentioned, $5 doesn't seem like a lot but it might be for someone else).
I will myself get the extra/compatibility kit, just for the iso keys. I hope you'll still support the kit tho :-)
Post by: Yeoh on Tue, 10 July 2018, 12:00:27
Post by: JSaintS on Tue, 10 July 2018, 12:02:53
Depending on pricing, I will more than likely will be purchasing this set instead of GMK Grey on Black because of the difference in cost, even if its only a few dollars. It really does make a difference, especially when torn between two nice sets like these.
Thanks for your support :)
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 10 July 2018, 12:13:10
Post by: duckboi on Tue, 10 July 2018, 12:50:27
So, only white space bars? Just curious.
Yeah, we don't really have plans to add mod colored spacebars. If there is enough interest we may throw them into the extras kit, however.
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 10 July 2018, 12:57:50
So, only white space bars? Just curious.
Yeah, we don't really have plans to add mod colored spacebars. If there is enough interest we may throw them into the extras kit, however.
Personally, I'd like them. And 2U Spacebars. :thumb:
Post by: SolidCactus on Tue, 10 July 2018, 13:09:26
Post by: jacky on Sat, 14 July 2018, 11:56:23
Post by: RSC on Sat, 14 July 2018, 15:20:32
If NorDE kits are the main argument against ISO support then it's a pretty poor argument. If ISO-UK is supported in the base set then most eu folks will not get the NorDe kit, it's most of the time half the price of the base set and that's just not worth it in the most cases. (Again this is all my opinion base of how i do feel about this!) Wrong legends are one thing, not being able to fill a board is another.
On the other hand, the main argument against ISO is the poor performance of specialized ISO kits in almost every single GB they are run with. I've keep a spreadsheet(slightly outdated) to track their performance with GMK sets seeing ~5% of base kit purchase numbers in ISO kit purchases, SP sets seeing ~8%, and finally XDA seeing around 11%. It's easy to see that the people that repeatedly ask for these kits to be included in GBs simply aren't supporting the kits when they do get put into the set, resulting in lost time and effort on the part of the designer, the runner, and anyone else involved.
I will make it known that personally I care enough about not alienating the EU crowd to include at least the basic ISO support if not more than that. Even though this is the way I feel about it, it's very easy for me to see how the numbers are actually going and understand why people decide that ISO isn't worth it. At times it does add an additional $5 to the base set, for GMK sets, sometimes even more, and that can be enough to drive away potential sales. Unfortunately, with every GB that happens it's more and more evident how ISO is teetering on the point of not having enough representation in the community to justify the added costs for everyone else.
It would be nice to know how many sets (%) with this basic ISO support get sold to europe. This is still a rough estimate because in eu are people who use ANSI as well but it would be closer to the real numbers than the NorDe kits numbers.
Also thank you for your support and not wanting to alienate eu folks. And while this set will easily hit the moq i might remind everyone who screams "frack ISO users" that there were GBs and there are still sets today that need help from everywhere it can get it.
As a side note, i'm a total TKL nerd and don't like 60% that much (even if i got a few) and fullsize is just ****ty for gaming^^ but i'm NOT saying that every other layout should be cut to save cost. We should all get our cakes <3 I'm paying for 30 keys i don't need so could "you" (not you donut).
And if this hobby gets 10 times bigger and something like TKL ANSI only base sets will be a thing (because of a big enough user base) we should all sit together and talk about those color way ownership stuff^^
Edit: Sorry for abusing this thread, while it may apply here too it's more of a general topic that i would like to discuss in-depth but not in this thread :)
This ^^
Most ISO users will stick with the base UK compatibility, that until now was usually included in the base GMK sets, because the NorDE kits won't give them proper legends for PT, ES, FR, IT, etc... And this "trend" of leaving ISO out, while still supporting layouts that probably have much less actual users, can cause EU users from dropping from GBs altogether once the stand-alone ISO kit fails to hit MOQ and that can cause the GBs to fail entirely.
Post by: otanishock on Mon, 16 July 2018, 02:46:52
Post by: duckboi on Mon, 16 July 2018, 05:58:24
Oh I am in this for sure. Any further update regarding the set?At the moment, we are kinda just in a waiting period while finalizing things. Hold tight, it’s gonna happen!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: otanishock on Mon, 16 July 2018, 08:38:27
Post by: duckboi on Mon, 16 July 2018, 10:23:22
I really hope the novelties go through. Worst case scenario, are you considering on a new set of novelties to go with this set in case Disney does not approve the project?
It is pretty unlikely that we will be doing novelties for this, sorry. We are just going to omit the novelties and continue on with the rest of the set.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 16 July 2018, 10:39:30
I think WOB and BOW aren't generally supported for novelites anyway.I really hope the novelties go through. Worst case scenario, are you considering on a new set of novelties to go with this set in case Disney does not approve the project?
It is pretty unlikely that we will be doing novelties for this, sorry. We are just going to omit the novelties and continue on with the rest of the set.
Post by: compjunkie8888 on Mon, 16 July 2018, 23:51:38
Post by: duckboi on Tue, 17 July 2018, 14:23:46
I might be over looking it but I am not seeing a 1.25u Caps lock. Otherwise the set looks fantastic.
Correct, there is no plan for a 1.25u Caps Lock key.
Post by: JSaintS on Tue, 17 July 2018, 15:22:09
Updated kits
Core Kit
(http://i.imgur.com/4PiyDe8.png)
Here is what change:
- we added a 2u R4 shift key;
- we added a 1u R4 FN key;
- we changed the R4 shift to icon only; and
- we changed the icon on the capslock key to the one used in GMK 9009 R2.
Extra Kit
(http://i.imgur.com/oVMGi8x.png)
Extras
I am an artisan lovers, and we decided we would keep the artisans.
- Alphakeycaps is on board and there will be a raffle for his Jedi Blinker (http://i.imgur.com/OPYGr9W.jpg). We will produce around 10 of those and they will be raffled between GB participants; and
- RAMA offered to produce this beauty (http://i.imgur.com/1x6WWOk.jpg). This is a black anodised X or O keycap with laser edged white stars (subtle but stunning). Those will go for the usual price for RAMA keycaps, so $36 for US/Asia and 42€ for EU (big thanks to RAMA for keeping the price low for us <3 I owe you one!) and have a MOQ of 50. Everyone can buy them and everyone can buy as many as they want.
Vendors
- MyKeyboard.eu (https://mykeyboard.eu) has been confirmed for Europe, ;
- We are still in discussion with vendors for the States and Canada; and
- zFrontier (https://en.zfrontier.com/) would be our vendor for Asia, Africa, Australia and New Zealand, though we are still waiting for a confirmation.
Thanks for reading guys!
(https://img00.deviantart.net/920c/i/2014/137/a/2/pinkie_pie_thats_all_folks_by_dan232323-d7ipnd4.jpg)
Post by: fleeceman on Wed, 18 July 2018, 05:47:24
Post by: SolidCactus on Wed, 18 July 2018, 06:14:50
Post by: JSaintS on Wed, 18 July 2018, 06:17:29
ISO UK support no longer in the base kit? I'm out
It never was in the base kit of our keyset
Post by: Altain on Wed, 18 July 2018, 06:39:16
Post by: Kerasan on Wed, 18 July 2018, 12:14:59
KMK Labs
Post by: kema on Wed, 18 July 2018, 14:40:10
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Sun, 22 July 2018, 13:18:54
Post by: konstantin on Mon, 23 July 2018, 07:32:30
- Add R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn to either the core or extra kit (preferably the former).
- Replace Code with System / Sys.
Reasoning for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn:
Some 65% layouts use it, e.g. the default WhiteFox, Tada68 and Uniqey C70 layouts. It's included in a couple of core kits (GMK/EPBT Slate comes to mind).
Reasoning for System:
What does Code even mean? It's like the people who put together the first GMK set with Code for the winkey thought: “We didn't know what to put here, so we put Code cause some people here are coders lul.”
Super makes a bit more sense, has a historical background, but nowadays isn't really prominent outside of *nix systems.
System makes the most sense, is neutral (just like Monochrome), and best describes what the key is actually used for: system-specific commands.
In the back of my head I think that GMK already have a System mold, but if it turns out they don't, it's time they made one imo.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 23 July 2018, 08:12:24
Suggestions:
- Add R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn to either the core or extra kit (preferably the former).
- Replace Code with System / Sys.
Reasoning for R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn:
Some 65% layouts use it, e.g. the default WhiteFox, Tada68 and Uniqey C70 layouts. It's included in a couple of core kits (GMK/EPBT Slate comes to mind).
Reasoning for System:
What does Code even mean? It's like the people who put together the first GMK set with Code for the winkey thought: “We didn't know what to put here, so we put Code cause some people here are coders lul.”
Super makes a bit more sense, has a historical background, but nowadays isn't really prominent outside of *nix systems.
System makes the most sense, is neutral (just like Monochrome), and best describes what the key is actually used for: system-specific commands.
In the back of my head I think that GMK already have a System mold, but if it turns out they don't, it's time they made one imo.
IMO, Code is actually more generic, and can be used for more than just a WIN replacement. As to what it means? A shortened abbreviation for KeyCode (https://www.definitions.net/definition/keycode) was my first thought, which makes it make even more sense when used as replacement for other keys that might not be related to system functions.
Therefore, my vote is to keep it.
Post by: konstantin on Mon, 23 July 2018, 09:13:56
As to what it means? A shortened abbreviation for KeyCode (https://www.definitions.net/definition/keycode) was my first thought, which makes it make even more sense when used as replacement for other keys that might not be related to system functions.Sure, I'll give you that, but I'd like to say that its primary intended use is to be a winkey replacement. All Code caps are R4, so you're a bit limited as to what other keys you can replace with it (at least on the most commonly used layouts). Since the most common non-standard keys on R4 are usually for layer stuff, I'd say you could use Fn for that purpose equally well, if not better. Other commonly used R4 keys are End and PgDn, and those are both covered (or will be covered) by the set.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 23 July 2018, 09:17:46
Notice, both Fn keys are already in use. As I said- I personally prefer code. :)
Post by: mkarlsson on Mon, 23 July 2018, 12:10:14
Code: [Select]
Find the "Code" button on the keyboard. This button controls various functions of your typewriter and the more familiar you get with using the code button, the easier it will be to work on your typewriter. For example in the Sharp PA 4000 model, pressing the "Code" button plus the “Q” key sets the calculator or cancels it. Pressing the "Code" button plus the “9” key will make the type bold.
Post by: konstantin on Mon, 23 July 2018, 14:26:00
You have to admit that's a very unorthodox layout you have there (though I like it!). But System could have worked equally as well in those spots, and you probably ended up using those keys for LGUI and RGUI anyway :DShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Phpnt9J.jpg)
Notice, both Fn keys are already in use.
Post by: konstantin on Mon, 23 July 2018, 14:37:36
Afaik code key was used on electric typewriters, TA used to have it. And seems that was intended as an “fn” key.Yep, looks like you're right — CODE (capitalized) was apparently first featured on GMK Royal Alpha. It does fit in that set because the original typewriter had it (though it was more like an Fn key as you said). I think System makes more sense in a modern context, where Fn (keyboard metacommands that never make it to the computer) and system commands are more distinct.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 23 July 2018, 14:43:22
You have to admit that's a very unorthodox layout you have there (though I like it!). But System could have worked equally as well in those spots, and you probably ended up using those keys for LGUI and RGUI anyway :DShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Phpnt9J.jpg)
Notice, both Fn keys are already in use.
Never said it wasn't... which was the reason that I said my preference. As yours is for system. :)
Post by: konstantin on Mon, 23 July 2018, 14:46:23
Post by: mkarlsson on Mon, 23 July 2018, 15:12:30
Afaik code key was used on electric typewriters, TA used to have it. And seems that was intended as an “fn” key.Yep, looks like you're right — CODE (capitalized) was apparently first featured on GMK Royal Alpha. It does fit in that set because the original typewriter had it (though it was more like an Fn key as you said). I think System makes more sense in a modern context, where Fn (keyboard metacommands that never make it to the computer) and system commands are more distinct.
Given the facts probably the most accurate use would be system as winkey replacement and CODE instead of fn. So we can have both of them
Post by: konstantin on Mon, 23 July 2018, 16:34:20
Given the facts probably the most accurate use would be system as winkey replacement and CODE instead of fn. So we can have both of themBut CODE only applies to Triumph Adler and Royal Alpha, not in general. But thanks for siding with me on System :D
Post by: mkarlsson on Mon, 23 July 2018, 16:40:56
Given the facts probably the most accurate use would be system as winkey replacement and CODE instead of fn. So we can have both of themBut CODE only applies to Triumph Adler and Royal Alpha, not in general. But thanks for siding with me on System
I don’t think CODE is exclusive from TA, maybe they were the first ones? The paragraph I posted earlier is from Sharp, I believe there are others that have used it too.
And yeah I am with you with system
Edit: found that Canon and Brother also used the CODE key, probably among many others.
Post by: earlilano on Tue, 24 July 2018, 21:22:35
Post by: nerium on Wed, 25 July 2018, 08:56:58
Post by: duckboi on Wed, 25 July 2018, 09:26:17
Will the core kit be enough for the Kira keyboard by Input Club? I can't wait to purchase these.
Yes, it will cover the Kira. Thanks for the support!! :D
Post by: SolidCactus on Wed, 25 July 2018, 10:22:57
Post by: JSaintS on Sat, 28 July 2018, 16:30:01
We updated the Core and the compatibility kit, here they are:
(http://i.imgur.com/qiQxECK.png)(http://i.imgur.com/GW4BB6P.png)
Also, for those that did not see it, the list of vendors is final:
- EU: MyKeyboard.eu
- States: Kono.store
- Asia/rest of the world: zFrontier
Time to put money aside folks, this is happening for sure :)
Post by: SolidCactus on Sat, 28 July 2018, 16:46:52
Any ideas on when the GB might start?
Post by: JSaintS on Sat, 28 July 2018, 16:49:05
Awesome update! I'm ready to snap this one up.
Any ideas on when the GB might start?
We don't have an official date yet but we are aiming at the end of Q3 :)
Post by: otanishock on Sat, 28 July 2018, 22:58:56
Awesome update! I'm ready to snap this one up.
Any ideas on when the GB might start?
We don't have an official date yet but we are aiming at the end of Q3 :)
Can't wait. The hype is real. Any word on those novelties? Still wish to see they could come to life!
Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 29 July 2018, 00:38:25
Post by: darthzero on Sun, 29 July 2018, 01:45:40
Seems like forever since I've update the OP.Any idea what the compatibility kit will cost? 40$+?
We updated the Core and the compatibility kit, here they are:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qiQxECK.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GW4BB6P.png)
Also, for those that did not see it, the list of vendors is final:
- EU: MyKeyboard.eu
- States: Kono.store
- Asia/rest of the world: zFrontier
Time to put money aside folks, this is happening for sure :)
Post by: Marutks on Sun, 29 July 2018, 06:42:11
Post by: Snappo on Sun, 29 July 2018, 07:00:04
windowed caps YES
:p
Seems like forever since I've update the OP.Any idea what the compatibility kit will cost? 40$+?
We updated the Core and the compatibility kit, here they are:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qiQxECK.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/GW4BB6P.png)
Also, for those that did not see it, the list of vendors is final:
- EU: MyKeyboard.eu
- States: Kono.store
- Asia/rest of the world: zFrontier
Time to put money aside folks, this is happening for sure :)
Yeah around there.
I am interested. I think this kit would look great on black RAMA M60 :D
Something like this? (https://i.imgur.com/L2I17L5.jpg)
Post by: JSaintS on Mon, 30 July 2018, 14:56:57
We trimmed the core kit a little bit to bring the cost down a little more. Here is the final design of the core kit:
(http://i.imgur.com/8qNaarV.png)
With that finalized, we also have the prices for all three vendors:
| Vendors | Base kit (MOQ 150) | Compatibility kit (MOQ 150) | RAMA X/O | RAMA Laser-etched X/O | ||||
| MyKeyboard (EU) | 132€ | 37€ | 42€ | 44€ | ||||
| KONO (USA) | $140 | $40 | $36 | $38 | ||||
| zFrontier (Asia)1 | $1402|$1552 | $40|$45 | $36 | $38 |
1 Please note that all their prices include shipping whilst that is not the case for other vendors.
2 Prices on the left are for China, prices on the right are for the other countries (price difference explained by the difference in shipping costs)
Also, there will be different price drops depending on the MOQ we hit, so talk about the set to your mom, your cat, your neighbors, the pope!
(http://i.imgur.com/Gyo5ePG.jpg)
Post by: Altain on Mon, 30 July 2018, 17:17:43
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 30 July 2018, 19:59:36
Post by: duckboi on Mon, 30 July 2018, 21:27:34
Just to make sure- those kits are final, correct? Just making sure as you'd said something about a spacebar kit- not having the space bars in the extras, which includes a lot of other keys.
Yes they're final.
Post by: Marutks on Thu, 09 August 2018, 15:53:19
We trimmed the core kit a little bit to bring the cost down a little more.
No 1.5u Code keys? and only one 1u ctrl / alt ? It makes this kit incompatible with HHKB layout, RAMA M60, for example.
Post by: tomu on Thu, 09 August 2018, 18:50:23
We trimmed the core kit a little bit to bring the cost down a little more.
No 1.5u Code keys? and only one 1u ctrl / alt ? It makes this kit incompatible with HHKB layout, RAMA M60, for example.
nice
Post by: otanishock on Thu, 09 August 2018, 19:34:19
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Post by: tomu on Thu, 09 August 2018, 19:41:27
Million dollars question. When is the drop? My body is readyThey're aiming for end of Q3
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
Post by: Water lee on Thu, 09 August 2018, 21:54:57
Post by: Kerasan on Fri, 10 August 2018, 07:15:27
GMK Metaverse is better
points of view ... I do not like weeb legend so I think the opposite. Also they are two different sets.
KMK Labs.
Post by: duckboi on Fri, 10 August 2018, 09:17:19
No 1.5u Code keys? and only one 1u ctrl / alt ? It makes this kit incompatible with HHKB layout, RAMA M60, for example.
It's not incompatible. There are still R4 1.5u alt and control keys that you are free to use as well as 1u Code keys. The point of this kit is to have compatible keys for as many layouts as possible, not to have perfect legends for every single layout. Thank you for the concern though! :)
Post by: HOBI3CAT on Wed, 15 August 2018, 14:53:34
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 17 August 2018, 06:32:47
Post by: PaultheSloth on Fri, 17 August 2018, 07:58:22
Post by: JSaintS on Fri, 17 August 2018, 08:01:37
Any estimate on the GB dates, would hate to miss this
We are unfortunately still waiting on Kono to confirm they are going ok for the proposed date :-/ hit them up to put pressure haha
Post by: otanishock on Fri, 17 August 2018, 08:42:17
Any estimate on the GB dates, would hate to miss this
We are unfortunately still waiting on Kono to confirm they are going ok for the proposed date :-/ hit them up to put pressure haha
That seems strange. Alec from Kono is usually very prompt and responsive from my experience. Did you try to hit him up again? I will definitely bug him as well haha 👌. Literally can't wait for thr GB haha.
Post by: JSaintS on Tue, 21 August 2018, 17:29:10
Mark your calendars, we are excited to announce that GMK Monochrome is launching on **September 1st**!
We wanted to thank you all for the support you've shown and we really hope you will love the end result!
(https://i.imgur.com/Z7wWNjI.jpg)
Pictures of the Alpha artisan to follow really soon (I'm actually waiting to get them to take some shots haha)
Post by: SolidCactus on Tue, 21 August 2018, 17:31:30
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 22 August 2018, 01:00:03
Quick updates for you guys!
Mark your calendars, we are excited to announce that GMK Monochrome is launching on **September 1st**!
We wanted to thank you all for the support you've shown and we really hope you will love the end result!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Z7wWNjI.jpg)
Pictures of the Alpha artisan to follow really soon (I'm actually waiting to get them to take some shots haha)
Hehe I swear this has nothing to do with me nudging Alec from Kono store over the weekend requesting this GB :D. I'm glad that he and his team are able to get in so quickly on this.
Post by: darthzero on Thu, 23 August 2018, 04:31:33
Also when comparing the base sets of this and modern dolch with the basic iso compatibility plus 2 extra iso enter i'm really unsure about cutting your base kit here and there without achieving any savings compared to that... what am i missing here?
Post by: JSaintS on Thu, 23 August 2018, 05:03:01
May i ask why the EU price is ~12$ more than US?
What I assumed would be out of our hands kinda was not. I talked to the EU Vendor and we brought the price down as much as we could. It is still more expensive than the US one, but there is not much we can do as we have to include taxes, etc.
Also when comparing the base sets of this and modern dolch with the basic iso compatibility plus 2 extra iso enter i'm really unsure about cutting your base kit here and there without achieving any savings compared to that... what am i missing here?
EDIT:
[...] we're looking at $145 for a base kit at the lowest MOQ right now [...]I found this in one of Janglad's comments. That might be subject to change but, this is in the vendor's hands, not ours, so not much we can do unfortunately :( Cutting those keys did bring the price down a little, we wouldn't have done it otherwise, truste me.
This brings back the old debate as to whether the inclusion of the ISO keys in the main kit is worth it or not. I am an ISO-only user, so my point of view is of course yes, unfortunately there seems to be a trend to leave those keys out to cut costs a little and bring the price down as much as possible, even if this is only by a few bucks. I do not want to spark a debate here as this is probably not the right place but it is undeniably what has been happening in the hobby for quite a while.
Post by: darthzero on Thu, 23 August 2018, 06:32:34
Post by: JSaintS on Thu, 23 August 2018, 06:34:11
oh stupid me, how could i forget about taxes -_- should stop posting early in the morning ^^
Not at all! that allowed us to get the price lower, so all in all it was worth it hehe
Post by: Kerasan on Thu, 23 August 2018, 10:23:37
KMK Labs.
Post by: Abec13 on Thu, 23 August 2018, 11:21:40
Here is me expressing my interest that you are checking for:
I would pick up a base kit, and X, and an O.
Post by: darthzero on Thu, 23 August 2018, 11:35:16
would be nice in the future a V2 with inverted colors or with a modifier kit WS2 (I'm already fantasizing) :pWas thinking about exactly this too but I guess it would be much more appealing to people that participate in this gb so the total amount of potential buyers is more or less this. So it would depend on how this set does would be my guess, if it sells way more than 300 there would be a chance that there is enough demand for a inverted set.
KMK Labs.
Just my 2 cents but at least we are not alone ;)
Post by: EvergreenTree on Thu, 23 August 2018, 20:13:32
Post by: JSaintS on Mon, 27 August 2018, 06:49:58
(https://i.imgur.com/lc5OmjM.jpg)
Post by: fleeceman on Tue, 28 August 2018, 09:22:36
Post by: duckboi on Tue, 28 August 2018, 10:29:32
Would be in if base set included ISO - there is a reason that all the most successful sets have it included in base. I think the extra price for ISO compatibility will put off the majority of UK and German buyers, which is like half the EU community.
Sorry, the kit is not changing anymore.
Post by: Visionaire on Tue, 28 August 2018, 21:32:31
Post by: konstantin on Thu, 30 August 2018, 16:46:58
I just noticed—there's no non-stepped windowed Caps Lock in the compat kit. Is this a render mistake or?
Post by: otanishock on Thu, 30 August 2018, 17:29:09
Post by: duckboi on Fri, 31 August 2018, 16:27:46
Keep in mind that GMK Monochrome will be going live tomorrow, September 1st!
Lets hope for a good group buy, thanks everyone! ;D ;D
Post by: nyunyu on Sat, 01 September 2018, 12:24:01
Post by: xondat on Sat, 01 September 2018, 12:31:23
I don't see the 7U spacebar for old Cherry keyboards in the compatibilty set.
Because it's in the base set?
Post by: duckboi on Sat, 01 September 2018, 12:56:08
Yep, it’s in base. It just happens that WS2 is so white that it blends into the background.I don't see the 7U spacebar for old Cherry keyboards in the compatibilty set.
Because it's in the base set?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: JSaintS on Sat, 01 September 2018, 13:09:53
Also, the GB post will be up as soon as the mods approve it : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97203.0
I am going to lock this thread, in the meantime, you can discuss this keyset on Reddit or KT :)