[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=104881.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/ijqMmwb.jpg[/img][/url]
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/REURLy1.png)
Introducing SA SAIL
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/x75QvsA.jpg)
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ECQpOXg.jpg)
I'm in if we can get ortho support!
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/REURLy1.png)
Introducing SA SAIL
Interesting concept. I have a couple quick comments.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/x75QvsA.jpg)
Kudos on the presence of numpad equals.
Given the importance math is given to this keyset, I would add a numpad comma (but that's me).Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ECQpOXg.jpg)
The "Atlantis ISO" moniker makes no sense here, for the obvious reasons, BUT... the R3 alpha shoud be \∞, not *⊗. Otherwise, on a regular ANSISO or ISO keyboard, there would be two copies of *⊗ (R1 and R3) (remember we're talking about the "movable" key here, that gets to be R2 1.5U, R3 1.0U or R1 1.0U).
That the R4 alpha would remain as \∞ is a valid option, but it occurs to me this can be further improved upon: given that new molds will have to be made anyway AND that the original keyboard did NOT have the extra ISO key, why not make it have a couple further math symbols that were not originally present? There's plenty of options: ∫ (given that ∂ is there already), ≢ (given that ≡ is there already), ∑, ∇, ∈ and ∉, µ, ∴, etcetera.
(a single large integral sign would look fantastic, IMHO)
Same. I’m in if there’s a simple ortho set. Seems like ortho users would be a large chunk of your target demographic.
Might be helpful to do some kind of comparison with existing "Cadet" SA sets.
Show Image(https://media.giphy.com/media/xUKrrEnN9I5lnrcSMv/giphy.gif)
…………Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ECQpOXg.jpg)
The "Atlantis ISO" moniker makes no sense here, for the obvious reasons, BUT... the R3 alpha shoud be \∞, not *⊗. Otherwise, on a regular ANSISO or ISO keyboard, there would be two copies of *⊗ (R1 and R3) (remember we're talking about the "movable" key here, that gets to be R2 1.5U, R3 1.0U or R1 1.0U).
That the R4 alpha would remain as \∞ is a valid option, but it occurs to me this can be further improved upon: given that new molds will have to be made anyway AND that the original keyboard did NOT have the extra ISO key, why not make it have a couple further math symbols that were not originally present? There's plenty of options: ∫ (given that ∂ is there already), ≢ (given that ≡ is there already), ∑, ∇, ∈ and ∉, µ, ∴, etcetera.
(a single large integral sign would look fantastic, IMHO)
For layouts without the F-row and where the user has the Escape key and 2U Backspace (BS) in the number row (you can see this in the Iron165 render), there is an extra key that needs a home and *⊗ is the odd man out. For layouts without the F-row and where the user has the Escape key and split Backspace, every R1 key has a home, so an additional key is needed for the extra R3 alpha. That's why I have provided both *⊗ and VT.
I would consider a ∑ add-on kit a la the ñ kit from GMK Jamon, although probably not as many keys to keep the price down.
…………Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ECQpOXg.jpg)
The "Atlantis ISO" moniker makes no sense here, for the obvious reasons, BUT... the R3 alpha shoud be \∞, not *⊗. Otherwise, on a regular ANSISO or ISO keyboard, there would be two copies of *⊗ (R1 and R3) (remember we're talking about the "movable" key here, that gets to be R2 1.5U, R3 1.0U or R1 1.0U).
That the R4 alpha would remain as \∞ is a valid option, but it occurs to me this can be further improved upon: given that new molds will have to be made anyway AND that the original keyboard did NOT have the extra ISO key, why not make it have a couple further math symbols that were not originally present? There's plenty of options: ∫ (given that ∂ is there already), ≢ (given that ≡ is there already), ∑, ∇, ∈ and ∉, µ, ∴, etcetera.
(a single large integral sign would look fantastic, IMHO)
For layouts without the F-row and where the user has the Escape key and 2U Backspace (BS) in the number row (you can see this in the Iron165 render), there is an extra key that needs a home and *⊗ is the odd man out. For layouts without the F-row and where the user has the Escape key and split Backspace, every R1 key has a home, so an additional key is needed for the extra R3 alpha. That's why I have provided both *⊗ and VT.
I understand your reasoning for wanting to retain the *⊗ keycap in a keyboard that's missing one key, but that still presents the problem of losing the \∞ keycap that is supposed to go right in that position in an ISO keyboard (of any form factor).
I would suggest keeping the *⊗ and \∞ keycaps as are in the base kit (those are perfectly fine), and have the R3 alpha in the ISO kit be \∞ (so all regular ISO keyboards of all form factors will be satisfied), with an R4 *⊗ keycap to cover the issue you mention. This, of course, beside the possibility of adding a different R4 key with one or two new symbols not present in the original keyboard, to avoid any repetition in the extra ISO key (be it either *⊗ or \∞).
(I like the VT keycap, too, BTW, but given that the base kit already has CALL, BREAK, LINE, FORM and TOP, I wonder if it wouldn't be better placed in the base kit as well)I would consider a ∑ add-on kit a la the ñ kit from GMK Jamon, although probably not as many keys to keep the price down.
The eñe survival kit meme worked nicely on GMK Jamón (as a matter of fact, I was gonna pass on it uñtil my eyes were iñuñdated with the sight of so mañy eñes together, and that woñ me over to the set), but I'm not sure if pulling a similar feat on THIS set would work. PERHAPS, at most, for the F row, with legends like ∑(i=1)(1), ∑(i=1)(2), (etc), but even then I'm not sure if it would look good.
…
Perhaps the λ kit from SA Carbon would be a better comparison?
Regarding the ISO kit, I'll have to give it some more thought it seems. Thanks for the input.
Depending on how HSA or ABS MT3 turn out, would you ever consider running this in either of those profiles?. A lot of people (like me) are less enthusiastic about SA than in the past, on account of its height and relatively small top surface area.
How about a R1 number row kit with ansi special characters? For those(developers/system admins, etc etc) who need the functionality of the special characters.
Thanks for taking my suggestion to incorporate the custom legends into the TKL nav cluster.
Is the intent to make legends equal in size to 7bit's? I assume yes based on the render but not sure. Just received my Symbiosis R2 order and comparing them to 7bit's caps, the slightly larger legends really do make a big difference.
I used those keyboards from time to time forty-odd years ago at the D. C. Power Lab.
I know when I saw the photo that is now the top one on Xah Lee's site, my immediate reaction was, hang on, wasn't it greener than that? And the later photos there seem to bear that out. Your choice seems like a compromise.
Maybe somebody at LCM+L knows the true original color; they have been trying to resurrect some of WAITS, I think. Maybe somebody could go over to the exhibit and photograph it with color bars next to it?
Or you could just say it's inspired-by and get on with it, which would still be great!
Plus it's always possible that the plastic has discolored over the years. However, I haven't noticed that with a Knight keyboard of similar age.
Would consider a uniform R3 profile, it would fit the board it's based on. Would make a big different for me, I think it would also help reduce costs and layout compatibility for buyers.
I would be super bummed if this wasn't sculpted. If anything, maybe add a uniform option like Symbiosis did.
would SAIL "CADR" run alongside the sculpted kits as currently proposed in the first post?
If yes, consider making a third option in the poll: "run sculpted kits", no R3 which dilutes MOQ
also consider the the "I'll buy anyways" vote, which is sorta me. Id prefer sculpted, but if it's an R3 uniform, eh, I'd buy it too.
2. Adding a condensed R3 monokit (i.e. SA Symbiosis R2's CADR kit):
Pros:
- Gives some buyers the option of a single kit that can cover all their needs
- Can easily add Colevrak support
Cons:
- Higher per-kit price at GB stage due to additional R3 molds needed
Please vote here (https://www.strawpoll.me/18922747). Poll will open for one week.
2. Adding a condensed R3 monokit (i.e. SA Symbiosis R2's CADR kit):
Pros:
- Gives some buyers the option of a single kit that can cover all their needs
- Can easily add Colevrak support
Cons:
- Higher per-kit price at GB stage due to additional R3 molds needed
Poll closed.
Precisely speaking, it is the word "tooling" that we should say for creating new legend rather than "mold".
Only new legends require new toolings. Once the legends toolings are done, SP could make keys in whatever profile you like as long as they are of the same dimensions - in this case, all alphas key are just 1u, 1.5 keys. So, you don't have to pay extra cost on toolings if you add a flat kit using the same legends.
But in terms of running a practical GB, my advise is that you should be very sure there is enough interest before adding any thing in real GB. People always ask for new thing/kit in a GB. The trend is that kit number in an IC is usually growing. It's too easy to add too many things/kits but without a solid number on interest some kits fail in the GB phase. We have seen examples before. The similar example, CADR of Symbiosis R2 had its hard time on sale during the GB phase.
Would like to point out you've got two R1 "Call" keys in the mods and you're missing R1 keys for "VT" and "Line" that would normally have their representative keys there for *correct* 1800-style layout support. Not an issue if there's a uniform kit that happens as long as that kit has all the compatibility of your current kits or what CADR had.
Other'n that I like the look, monotone and green is my jam.
This is a pretty hot set. I love the similarities to space cadet.
Would an Assembly kit be offered or is that still in the works?
Putting in my vote for 1-2-3-3-3-4 sculpt for the whole kit.
My pref is with profile as is: 112343
--Added 1800 layout support to Numpad
Just wanted to give you guys a small update and show you how I've been refining some of the legends to be more like the inspiration. Please see comparisons below:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ASAwCNr.jpg)
I bet you guys didn't even notice these were off but wanted to let you know that I'm taking the legends very seriously so that they'll be as | A E S T H E T I C | as possible.
DISCLAIMER: These changes may or may not make it into the renders but rest assured they will be in the final product.
Gr8, apologize if this has been answered already, but what is GB drop date??
I'm interested in robust ortho support. Following along to see how this turns out.
Also VERY interested in robust ortho support. I'm in if that happens!
What does robust ortho support even mean? Covering all the 10 million ways to put legends on the outer edges of the keyboard?
First round pricing has been received from SP and it's not exactly where I wanted it to be. I've made the decision to scale back the Ortho/40s kit slightly in order to get better costing across the board. My sincere apologies for those that this change affects, but I believe the Ortho/40s kit still offers a good range of compatibility in key sizes and profiles if not legends.
See below for full CHANGELOG:
--Removed extra R1 CALL key from Modifiers
--Added 1800 layout support to Numpad
--Scaled back Ortho/40s kit slightly for costing reasons
In other news, "Keep the kits as they are (no changes)" is currently winning over "Convert entire set to uniform R3" by quite a bit. Poll will remain open until Sunday, but if this trend continues, the good news is that there won't be a R3 monokit to add further cost to the set.
Render updates are being worked on.
Remember to fill out the interest check form (https://forms.gle/pWi237ikMsbCsVU97)! Thank you all for the great response so far!
Major kit update in the OP. Also added the below changelog:
CHANGE LOG:
--Split the Base kit into Alphas and Modifiers
--Expanded the ISO kit slightly and incorporated the VT key into the Modifiers
--Added ortho/40s kit with fairly robust 40s support
--Added split spacebars kit
--Added ∑ novelties to the Alphas and Numpad kits
--Replaced 2U BS with BACKSPACE; smaller BS keys left unchanged
--Shuffled around the 65% right column keys and incorporated the legends into the TKL nav cluster
New renders are incoming!
Reminder to please fill out the form (https://forms.gle/pWi237ikMsbCsVU97)!
I'm interested in robust ortho support. Following along to see how this turns out.Also VERY interested in robust ortho support. I'm in if that happens!What does robust ortho support even mean? Covering all the 10 million ways to put legends on the outer edges of the keyboard?
Would have to agree for anyone reading this go forward that these types of comments are not helpful. If you want specific keys added, you need to specify. I am not an ortho user and am unsure what robust ortho means.
Regardless in this case, I plan on keeping the ortho/40s kit pretty tight for costing reasons.
First round pricing has been received from SP and it's not exactly where I wanted it to be. I've made the decision to scale back the Ortho/40s kit slightly in order to get better costing across the board. My sincere apologies for those that this change affects, but I believe the Ortho/40s kit still offers a good range of compatibility in key sizes and profiles if not legends.
See below for full CHANGELOG:
--Removed extra R1 CALL key from Modifiers
--Added 1800 layout support to Numpad
--Scaled back Ortho/40s kit slightly for costing reasons
In other news, "Keep the kits as they are (no changes)" is currently winning over "Convert entire set to uniform R3" by quite a bit. Poll will remain open until Sunday, but if this trend continues, the good news is that there won't be a R3 monokit to add further cost to the set.
Render updates are being worked on.
Remember to fill out the interest check form (https://forms.gle/pWi237ikMsbCsVU97)! Thank you all for the great response so far!Major kit update in the OP. Also added the below changelog:
CHANGE LOG:
--Split the Base kit into Alphas and Modifiers
--Expanded the ISO kit slightly and incorporated the VT key into the Modifiers
--Added ortho/40s kit with fairly robust 40s support
--Added split spacebars kit
--Added ∑ novelties to the Alphas and Numpad kits
--Replaced 2U BS with BACKSPACE; smaller BS keys left unchanged
--Shuffled around the 65% right column keys and incorporated the legends into the TKL nav cluster
New renders are incoming!
Reminder to please fill out the form (https://forms.gle/pWi237ikMsbCsVU97)!I'm interested in robust ortho support. Following along to see how this turns out.Also VERY interested in robust ortho support. I'm in if that happens!What does robust ortho support even mean? Covering all the 10 million ways to put legends on the outer edges of the keyboard?
Would have to agree for anyone reading this go forward that these types of comments are not helpful. If you want specific keys added, you need to specify. I am not an ortho user and am unsure what robust ortho means.
Regardless in this case, I plan on keeping the ortho/40s kit pretty tight for costing reasons.
Right off of the bat, you mention that ortho support is is being scaled back. Then, you brag on your "robust" (your words) ortho support. Then you mention that you are scaling back the ortho kit (again!) for cost reasons. Next, you say that ortho support will be kept pretty tight.
IMHO, it is reasonable to be concerned, in light of your own comments, that ortho support may be cut back even more, if folks do not raise their hands and make it known that ortho support is precisely why they are interested in this kit; hence my post. I'm puzzled as to why you wouldn't find it helpful/valuable to know that a prospective participant's interest is based solely in whether the kit continues to maintain a decent level of ortho support. Frankly, I find your reaction to be both puzzling and troubling. All I'm saying is that if ortho support continues to be pared back, I'm no longer interested. After all, I thought that was why we are here ... for an interest check.
I have no way of knowing precisely what may have already been cut, I have only the posted render and your statements to go by.
My anxiety does not derive from a missing key(s), but from my concern that additional cost cuts will be made, unless folks make it known that ortho support is important to them.
I would be interested in this set, too.
Although I would usually consider sets only, if they have a NorDe kit, I can understand, why wouldn't want to bother with it in this special case.
All I would ask is, that the BACKSPACE in the Modifiers kit would get the legend "BS" as it can be found on the original keyboard.
... The 2u Backspace was indeed BS in my original design but I felt it looked too unbalanced on such a large key. I have kept it on the smaller keys like 1.5u and 1u.
... The 2u Backspace was indeed BS in my original design but I felt it looked too unbalanced on such a large key. I have kept it on the smaller keys like 1.5u and 1u.
I understand, but the whole point of this set is "being quirky". So I would still prefer "BS".
Hey just wonder if we’ll be able to see color samples before the GB start?
would it be possible to get a render of the set on a white/silver keyboard?
Thank you for your interest. The 2u Backspace was indeed BS in my original design but I felt it looked too unbalanced on such a large key. I have kept it on the smaller keys like 1.5u and 1u.I kinda like how the 2u Backspace looks with BS and the extra space. Would you consider adding it as an extra mod? I know it'll drive the price up, but it might be something to think about.
Thank you for your interest. The 2u Backspace was indeed BS in my original design but I felt it looked too unbalanced on such a large key. I have kept it on the smaller keys like 1.5u and 1u.I kinda like how the 2u Backspace looks with BS and the extra space. Would you consider adding it as an extra mod? I know it'll drive the price up, but it might be something to think about.
I didn't realize there was so much to consider when it came to these decisions. I support your decision and appreciate your response. I learned so much today. :thumb:Thank you for your interest. The 2u Backspace was indeed BS in my original design but I felt it looked too unbalanced on such a large key. I have kept it on the smaller keys like 1.5u and 1u.I kinda like how the 2u Backspace looks with BS and the extra space. Would you consider adding it as an extra mod? I know it'll drive the price up, but it might be something to think about.
Probably not. The Modifiers kit is already looking to be the most expensive kit by quite a bit and I am not looking to add keys to it. I don't have a huge preference one way or the other, but I'm also not looking to run another poll about it since I already ran one for the sculpt. Unless a ton of people come out of the woodwork and say they prefer BS, then it'll probably stay as it is. In fact, I'll probably change the 1.75u BS in the 40s kit to Backspace, as well.
Since the BS key in the inspiration is 1.5u, we have to take some creative liberties for keys larger than that, and I've taken the decision that Backspace looks better.
Another thing to keep in mind is that BS is a new mold and each BS key of differing size adds another mold cost to the total. By using Backspace for 2u and 1.75u, we can save some costs to the consumer.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/REURLy1.png)
Introducing SA SAIL
Based on the SAIL (Stanford AI Lab) keyboard created by Les Earnest, inventor of the Finger protocol. SAIL itself was started by John McCarthy, inventor of the LISP programming language. The SAIL keyboard inspired the Knight keyboard, which in turn inspired the LISP Machine CADR and Space Cadet keyboards. The keyboard features beautiful teal keycaps and a mix of APL and Greek top legends, as opposed to the Space Cadet keyboard where the Greek legends are on the front of the keys. The SAIL keyboard also introduced the META and TOP keys.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/iOGdi2k.jpg)
A couple of interesting quirks about the keyboard should be noted:
--The digit 0 key is to the left of the 1 key.
--The punctuation legends placement is quite different from modern keyboards (more on that later).
ColorsShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/0Utq2k9.jpg)
Interest Check Google Form (https://forms.gle/pWi237ikMsbCsVU97)
KitsShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/TG1I4qF.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/eaxTlmP.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/sccJtRO.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/jMe9P9f.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/POmeriP.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/QpOru3w.jpg)
Renders
RAMA U80-AShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/AdoEqRI.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/YmU7epd.png)
Iron165Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/JvMZwv1.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/K6YA5LO.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/KwOqcB8.png)
FAQs
Are these 7bit’s or hhkbp2’s legends? No, I drew these myself. See below comparison:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/2202wyt.jpg)
NE NorDe (or Colevrak) avail? Due to the “wrong” punctuation legend placement in relation to modern keyboards and the fact that a new mold would need to be created for each key if I wanted it to have the “correct” top legend according to the inspiration, I have decided not to provide a NorDe kit. More importantly, I don’t even know what that would look like, since it would definitely require some rearranging of the punctuation legends in a way that would go against how they are laid out in the alphas. Same thing goes for Colevrak. Instead, I’ve provided a basic ISO kit with two options to cover the extra key: *⊗ or \∞. The ∑s in the Alphas kit should also help in this regard. Since even the base ANSI layout has the “wrong” punctuation legend placement, I think it is not as egregious in this case that ISO layouts have the wrong legends as well.
What's with the ∑ keys? Originally conceived as a single key to help solve the problem of the extra key for ISO layouts, I decided to make one for every row to give the set a nice pizazz that fits well within the math theme of the set.
To-Do
Feedback - Pending
Quotes & samples from SP - Pending
Vendors - Pending
New renders - Pending
Launch GB
Acknowledgements
Hhkbp2/Jiezhou for all the detailed advice about custom fonts and running a GB through SP
Abec13 for the beautiful renders and advice on formatting the IC and the 40s kit
depletedvespene for the advice about the ISO kit and the idea for the ∑ keys
Changelog
11/25/19
--Changed 1.75u BS key in 40s kit to BACKSPACE
--Removed \∞ from Ortho kit after mocking up a Preonic for a new render, as I believe exceedingly few people will use this key
--Selected a new Pantone for better color matching to plastics, PQ-7716C
--SAMPLES REQUESTED!!!
11/18/19
--Replaced LOCK with NUM LOCK in the Numpad kit
--Updated various legends to be more faithful to the inspiration
11/12/19
--Removed extra R1 CALL key from Modifiers
--Added 1800 layout support to Numpad
--Scaled back Ortho/40s kit slightly for costing reasons
11/8/19
--Split the Base kit into Alphas and Modifiers
--Expanded the ISO kit slightly and incorporated the VT key into the Modifiers
--Added ortho/40s kit with fairly robust 40s support
--Added split spacebars kit
--Added ∑ novelties to the Alphas and Numpad kits
--Replaced 2U BS with BACKSPACE; smaller BS keys left unchanged
--Shuffled around the 65% right column keys and incorporated the legends into the TKL nav cluster
If you'd like to support this project, please use the banner below:Code: [Select][url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103307.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/4kfOlRl.jpg[/img][/url]
Do you think there is any chance of a set of trig functions? I.e. sin, cos, etc. Say in a novelty set?
Is there any idea yet when the GB might be?
So looking forward for this one!
Why SA and not MT3? I've heard that MT3 is a lot better to type on.
Before you edited your response above, if you were referring to sin/cos/tan keys like you mentioned previously, there is no chance for that.
However, I would consider moving the ∑s into a separate kit like the below if the response is good (and possibly of offering a blank ergo kit). I know I already said the kits are locked, and this would really be the last change.
QuoteBefore you edited your response above, if you were referring to sin/cos/tan keys like you mentioned previously, there is no chance for that.
However, I would consider moving the ∑s into a separate kit like the below if the response is good (and possibly of offering a blank ergo kit). I know I already said the kits are locked, and this would really be the last change.
I like the idea of a maths kit. An integral symbol really rounds out the sets. The sin/cos was just a thought when I posted before. I was just wondering in my last post about having an expanded math symbol set. If there is enough interest to add a math set, I'm definitely in!
Did somebody say ergo blanks? Boardwalk support should be pretty easy to include (for all I know its already there, I'm a little lazy), and add a lot of utility. I was probably going to skip this, but boardwalk support has forced me to reconsider.
Blank mods gang rising
Did somebody say ergo blanks? Boardwalk support should be pretty easy to include (for all I know its already there, I'm a little lazy), and add a lot of utility. I was probably going to skip this, but boardwalk support has forced me to reconsider.
Blank mods gang rising
This is a pretty hot set. I love the similarities to space cadet.
Would an Assembly kit be offered or is that still in the works?
Well, I only got one request for an ergo kit in the interest check form.
I'm also not inclined to offer one for the following reasons:
- A modern assembly kit would not match well with these vintage-style legends.
- Blanks would look unbalanced due to the dual-legend nature of the alphas.
- Custom legends would add additional cost to the set and I'd like to keep it pretty tight.
At the end of the day, an ergo kit would depend on interest level and right now, it's lacking.
I will say though, that if I were to add an ergo kit, I would use forms and functions that are unique to Stanford LISP 1.6, the version of LISP used at SAIL. So if that piques your interest, all you ergo users better show up in the form (https://forms.gle/pWi237ikMsbCsVU97)!
This is a pretty hot set. I love the similarities to space cadet.
Would an Assembly kit be offered or is that still in the works?
Well, I only got one request for an ergo kit in the interest check form.
I'm also not inclined to offer one for the following reasons:
- A modern assembly kit would not match well with these vintage-style legends.
- Blanks would look unbalanced due to the dual-legend nature of the alphas.
- Custom legends would add additional cost to the set and I'd like to keep it pretty tight.
At the end of the day, an ergo kit would depend on interest level and right now, it's lacking.
I will say though, that if I were to add an ergo kit, I would use forms and functions that are unique to Stanford LISP 1.6, the version of LISP used at SAIL. So if that piques your interest, all you ergo users better show up in the form (https://forms.gle/pWi237ikMsbCsVU97)!
I don't have a problem with a blank ergo kit, but I think an ergo kit with LISP legends like in SA Symbiosis would be better:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/URMHRlu.jpg)
This actually gives me a good excuse to explain why I'm considering blank mods as opposed to legended mods specific to the SAIL theme...
For one (I know I said previously that blank mods would look unbalanced with the dual legended alphas), as I look at more and more vintage boards, I'm finding that blank mods combined with dual legend alphas aren't unheard of. So there is a historical precedent for this.
Secondly, an ergo kit with custom legends would add another 18 (19 with Boardwalk support) new molds to the already high mold count. Again, I will use SA Symbiosis 2.0 as an example...Symbiosis had 21(!) kits to help spread out the cost of the molds. Since SAIL is a monotone set, there are only 6 (maybe eight) kits amongst which to spread that cost. So you have a situation where instead of paying say a $4 premium per kit to cover the new molds, you're paying a premium of $8 per kit (these numbers are hypothetical). So I do not believe this set can support that many more molds, given the much smaller amount of kits offered. If an ergo kit gets added, it will be blanks.
Ok thanks for the clarification. Blank legends it is.This is a pretty hot set. I love the similarities to space cadet.
Would an Assembly kit be offered or is that still in the works?
Well, I only got one request for an ergo kit in the interest check form.
I'm also not inclined to offer one for the following reasons:
- A modern assembly kit would not match well with these vintage-style legends.
- Blanks would look unbalanced due to the dual-legend nature of the alphas.
- Custom legends would add additional cost to the set and I'd like to keep it pretty tight.
At the end of the day, an ergo kit would depend on interest level and right now, it's lacking.
I will say though, that if I were to add an ergo kit, I would use forms and functions that are unique to Stanford LISP 1.6, the version of LISP used at SAIL. So if that piques your interest, all you ergo users better show up in the form (https://forms.gle/pWi237ikMsbCsVU97)!
I don't have a problem with a blank ergo kit, but I think an ergo kit with LISP legends like in SA Symbiosis would be better:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/URMHRlu.jpg)
The SA Symbiosis ergo legends are unavailable to me to use. Thus, we would need new legends, which means new molds. I've already explained why this is unfeasible for a set like this, using SA Symbiosis as an example:This actually gives me a good excuse to explain why I'm considering blank mods as opposed to legended mods specific to the SAIL theme...
For one (I know I said previously that blank mods would look unbalanced with the dual legended alphas), as I look at more and more vintage boards, I'm finding that blank mods combined with dual legend alphas aren't unheard of. So there is a historical precedent for this.
Secondly, an ergo kit with custom legends would add another 18 (19 with Boardwalk support) new molds to the already high mold count. Again, I will use SA Symbiosis 2.0 as an example...Symbiosis had 21(!) kits to help spread out the cost of the molds. Since SAIL is a monotone set, there are only 6 (maybe eight) kits amongst which to spread that cost. So you have a situation where instead of paying say a $4 premium per kit to cover the new molds, you're paying a premium of $8 per kit (these numbers are hypothetical). So I do not believe this set can support that many more molds, given the much smaller amount of kits offered. If an ergo kit gets added, it will be blanks.
Will there be a 6u spacebar for HHKB layout?
OK :(
Well, if/when SP decides to offer a 6u spacebar, maybe do another GB?
I may purchase anyways. :) Then buy the spacebar later. Very excited regardless!
Updated and new renders have been added to the OP. These reflect the new Pantone color and refined legends mentioned previously.Noice work on the sets and improved colors! Can't wait for the group buy to happen!
Below is a comparison between the old color and the new color:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/qiUCpRV.jpg)
I've also officially added the novelty kit and the ergo blanks kit (w/ Boardwalk support).
Out of curiosity, what's the lead time from the end of group buy to production of the caps? I know each company has their own capabilities, but what has SP said? I read an article on drop about them, and they mentioned it's kind of up in the air depending on what I presume is the complexity/size of the set. Just interested in learning as much as possible about this community, manufacturers included.
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103307.0][img]https://i.imgur.com/Ar665CJ.jpg[/img][/url]
I had to stop lurking and create an account to say that I can't wait for the group buy to drop.
Also, I second the idea of the green deskmat with the traces in the legend color. GLWGB! Come on March!
I had to stop lurking and create an account to say that I can't wait for the group buy to drop.
Also, I second the idea of the green deskmat with the traces in the legend color. GLWGB! Come on March!
Thanks for the support. I mocked up a version like you described but I feel like it's too high contrast. What do you guys think?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/AD6NSZy.jpg)
Seconded for seeing it with a render. I personally really like the color matching version; but would like to see it in a render with the key caps to see how well it blends :)I had to stop lurking and create an account to say that I can't wait for the group buy to drop.
Also, I second the idea of the green deskmat with the traces in the legend color. GLWGB! Come on March!
Thanks for the support. I mocked up a version like you described but I feel like it's too high contrast. What do you guys think?Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/AD6NSZy.jpg)
I think I like it. I see what you mean about the contrast, but I like the callback to the colors. Would it be possible to mock up a render with one of the keyboards?
Thanks for the mockup!
The suspense is killing me!!!
The samples are not an attempt at the SAIL color, are they? They look to be a pretty good match to 1976 to me, but way off for SAIL
I did end up requesting a couple of samples. As a reminder, these are not correct for color.
The samples are not an attempt at the SAIL color, are they? They look to be a pretty good match to 1976 to me, but way off for SAILI did end up requesting a couple of samples. As a reminder, these are not correct for color.
Wonderful! Your renders seem spot on. I'd buy on the first day.
Just curious: the alphas kit image suggests FJ homing keys. What are they like?
Deskpad renders have been posted below and in the OP.
Any chance of a 3u bar in the split bar kit?
Any chance of a 3u bar in the split bar kit?
What layout is that for? Minila?
Any chance of a 3u bar in the split bar kit?
What layout is that for? Minila?
Sorry for late response. Didn't know you had replied.
It's not for Minila, at least not for me, but I know a few split boards that use it, and I've also talked with a few designers that would have incorporated it into their board's layout if 3u bars were more prevalent. It's sorta a chicken and egg kind of thing and def. niche, but considering how small the split bar kit is, I don't think it will add too much to the cost.
Awesome! I’m ready to join.
Quick question: I’m based in South America. Should I order from NovelKeys (the NA vendor) or iLumKB (the Asian vendor). I’ve purchased stuff from both vendors before, FWIW.
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hey... looking forward to this set. just FYI the group buy page up at Desk Hero has out of date kit photos. you'll wanna get those updated before this goes live so everyone knows what exactly they're getting.
https://www.deskhero.ca/collections/keycap-sets/products/sa-sail