Post by: Project Keyboard on Sat, 12 June 2021, 08:53:20
GMK BINGSU R2
your favorite summertime dessert is back!
KITTING
(https://imgur.com/WZZIgh2.jpg)
Base kit covers most common layouts with terminal-ISO support with accent modifiers.
(https://imgur.com/enkRWD9.jpg)
Hangul kit has been reverted back to a child kit. Includes extra B and mod pipe for aesthetic support.
(https://imgur.com/5PapEqs.jpg)
Spacebar kit covers split, alice (extra B), and accent 625u and 700u spacebars.
(https://imgur.com/54YYQmd.jpg)
Aesthetic kit includes Icon Mods, extends 65%, 660, 60% staggered with arrow cluster, and basic unix/mac support.
(https://imgur.com/uu7ioWx.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/S0INAKm.jpg)
Mod kit provides coverage to replace mods to alpha-colored (including numpad and F13)
(https://imgur.com/9NHSaSC.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/uWBZIbc.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/h0SuR7M.jpg)
International kit has been reduced while terminal-ISO added to base.
DESKMATS
(https://imgur.com/6hv3tcE.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/cuVTwm1.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/LZ9cfgz.jpg)
COLORS
(https://imgur.com/PCu3CrJ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ubU4DlQ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/verJoZM.jpg)
ROUND 1 PHOTOS
(https://imgur.com/dVpHxZl.jpg)
Photo: @taehatypes (https://www.instagram.com/taehatypes/)
(https://imgur.com/MSdwg3i.jpg)
Photo: @_minterly (https://www.instagram.com/_minterly/)
(https://imgur.com/QqCPv1Z.jpg)
Photo: @hqle26 (https://www.instagram.com/hqle26/)
(https://imgur.com/QwmLnbp.jpg)
Photo: @tamvibes (https://www.instagram.com/tamvibes/)
RENDERS
*MORE RENDERS COMING*
(https://imgur.com/WfbGcco.jpg)
Kendo
(https://imgur.com/WyzJyq4.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/X2nihLY.jpg)
Tengu
(https://imgur.com/wJWNXZ5.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/I4ypq8g.jpg)
Valkyrie
VENDORS:
US: projectkeyboard.com
CA: deskhero.ca
EU: mykeyboard.eu
UK: prototypists.net
AUS: dailyclack.com
SEA: ilumkb
CN: zfrontier.com
SA: fancycustoms.com
KOR: swagkeys.com
PRICING:
(https://imgur.com/S8VCFa4.jpg)
TIMELINE:
GB Start: JULY 7, 2021
GB End: AUGUST 8, 2021
Est. Ship Date: Q3 2022
your favorite summertime dessert is back!
KITTING
(https://imgur.com/WZZIgh2.jpg)
Base kit covers most common layouts with terminal-ISO support with accent modifiers.
More
(https://imgur.com/8RNbTnD.jpg)(https://imgur.com/vnAuUB8.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/enkRWD9.jpg)
Hangul kit has been reverted back to a child kit. Includes extra B and mod pipe for aesthetic support.
More
(https://imgur.com/kWSU3Rh.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/5PapEqs.jpg)
Spacebar kit covers split, alice (extra B), and accent 625u and 700u spacebars.
More
(https://imgur.com/1ajFg0C.jpg)(https://imgur.com/7IZCFUw.jpg)(https://imgur.com/Arz6jjc.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/54YYQmd.jpg)
Aesthetic kit includes Icon Mods, extends 65%, 660, 60% staggered with arrow cluster, and basic unix/mac support.
More
(https://imgur.com/P4HHEBp.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/gT3fQAX.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/gT3fQAX.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/uu7ioWx.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/S0INAKm.jpg)
Mod kit provides coverage to replace mods to alpha-colored (including numpad and F13)
More
(https://imgur.com/WSC6q5P.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/9NHSaSC.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/uWBZIbc.jpg)
More
(https://imgur.com/3azGjNa.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/h0SuR7M.jpg)
International kit has been reduced while terminal-ISO added to base.
More
(https://imgur.com/iOXNojp.jpg)
DESKMATS
(https://imgur.com/6hv3tcE.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/cuVTwm1.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/LZ9cfgz.jpg)
COLORS
(https://imgur.com/PCu3CrJ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ubU4DlQ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/verJoZM.jpg)
ROUND 1 PHOTOS
(https://imgur.com/dVpHxZl.jpg)
Photo: @taehatypes (https://www.instagram.com/taehatypes/)
(https://imgur.com/MSdwg3i.jpg)
Photo: @_minterly (https://www.instagram.com/_minterly/)
(https://imgur.com/QqCPv1Z.jpg)
Photo: @hqle26 (https://www.instagram.com/hqle26/)
(https://imgur.com/QwmLnbp.jpg)
Photo: @tamvibes (https://www.instagram.com/tamvibes/)
RENDERS
*MORE RENDERS COMING*
(https://imgur.com/WfbGcco.jpg)
Kendo
(https://imgur.com/WyzJyq4.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/X2nihLY.jpg)
Tengu
(https://imgur.com/wJWNXZ5.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/I4ypq8g.jpg)
Valkyrie
VENDORS:
US: projectkeyboard.com
CA: deskhero.ca
EU: mykeyboard.eu
UK: prototypists.net
AUS: dailyclack.com
SEA: ilumkb
CN: zfrontier.com
SA: fancycustoms.com
KOR: swagkeys.com
PRICING:
(https://imgur.com/S8VCFa4.jpg)
TIMELINE:
GB Start: JULY 7, 2021
GB End: AUGUST 8, 2021
Est. Ship Date: Q3 2022
Post by: of_sam on Sat, 12 June 2021, 08:59:32
Post by: pcire on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:33:29
Please consider not locking Alice bars in the extension kit.
^ Please!
Post by: cijanzen on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:36:24
Please consider not locking Alice bars in the extension kit.You’ve got spacebars in the accent, extension, and forties kit.
Edit: perhaps that actually warrants splitting them out on their own? I haven’t kept up with GMK kitting so much but that would be typical for SP kitting.
Post by: Grant-GG on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:42:14
Post by: singabore on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:45:13
Post by: Ella on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:46:20
Post by: of_sam on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:47:22
There are plenty of ways to kit without putting alpha colored bars in kits that will be $40+. I don't need any of the other keys in the Extension or 40's kits besides the two bars. There is also not enough shifts in the base to make a makeshift Alice layout using shifts as spacebars.Please consider not locking Alice bars in the extension kit.You’ve got spacebars in the accent, extension, and forties kit.
Edit: perhaps that actually warrants splitting them out on their own? I haven’t kept up with GMK kitting so much but that would be typical for SP kitting.
Post by: cijanzen on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:51:16
Yeah, I guess I was initially just pointing out that they’re available in a couple kits, but now seeing that there’s a lot of redundancy there and hence the edit.There are plenty of ways to kit without putting alpha colored bars in kits that will be $40+. I don't need any of the other keys in the Extension or 40's kits besides the two bars. There is also not enough shifts in the base to make a makeshift Alice layout using shifts as spacebars.Please consider not locking Alice bars in the extension kit.You’ve got spacebars in the accent, extension, and forties kit.
Edit: perhaps that actually warrants splitting them out on their own? I haven’t kept up with GMK kitting so much but that would be typical for SP kitting.
Would it be outrageous to put the bars and accent bars in a standalone kit and remove the bars from the other kits?
Post by: Fraaaan on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:52:55
Post by: LittleAad on Sat, 12 June 2021, 09:53:36
Anyhow, consider dropping off center space and adding alpha coloured 3-1-3 bars for the “accents” kit. Some form of iso in base would be cool. Excited to see an r2 tho :thumb:
Post by: cijanzen on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:01:46
Base kit covers a decent chunk of boards but perhaps with, I think just one more shift(?) could cover Alice in a less ideal way.
Post by: hali on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:08:16
Post by: Laur on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:10:00
that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
i couldn't have said it better myself
also why did you post this ic 4 times?
Post by: pcire on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:14:21
Would it be outrageous to put the bars and accent bars in a standalone kit and remove the bars from the other kits?
Not sure how much it affects pricing, but something like this is what I’d love to see.
Post by: SafeAtShore on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:18:09
Really appreciate the re-introduction of accent keys in 40s kit. Would it be possible to add a 1.5u shift in 40s kit as well?
EDIT 2: As Steve said below (and upon closer inspection), that 1.75u mod-colored enter appears to be mislabeled. Would still appreciate 1.5u enter accent and 1.5u shift.
I'm digging the icon + text, although I didn't mind just icons--as long as it's consistent throughout the kits.
Ambivalent about the extensions kit. A lot of other sets usually have those caps in the base kit, don't they? I'd only get it for the shift keys, which... idk if I want to pay for a whole kit just for shift keys. But if base kit pricing works out to be lower, then fair's fair I guess.
I kinda like the abundance of mini bars; can never have too many.
Post by: cijanzen on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:18:16
that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
i couldn't have said it better myself
also why did you post this ic 4 times?
that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
Neither of you have said why you dislike the kit or offered alternatives.
What isn’t working? And what about the kit would you change?
Post by: Macmutant on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:33:07
Post by: Steve Laroo on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:38:45
Post by: iinko_mk on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:40:13
that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
i couldn't have said it better myself
also why did you post this ic 4 times?that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
Neither of you have said why you dislike the kit or offered alternatives.
What isn’t working? And what about the kit would you change?
not either of the OPs, but i also think the extension kit can be trimmed a bit (and kitting as a whole), so i just quoted dis. here we go:
Right of the bat, i think that iso can be put in base. while not a huge chunk of buyers, it will help eu sales/places that use iso sales (so pretty much everywhere). No one is gonna want to buy a 110 base kit (110 is optimistic with the state that gmk is in rn) and a 50 dollar extension kit for 4 keys (the 4 needed for simple iso).
Second, there should either be an extra 2.25u shift or alice bars in base for the b to actually do anything. Currently, the base kit can only support one alice layout physically (the 2u, 2.75u bars one). Or the b can be put in extensions or with spacebars,
F13 can also be added to base, once again, no one should be paying 50 bucks for a single key.
There is no numpad 5 homing key anywhere in the set, please add this either to base or extention
In conclusion, clumping everything into one kit actually has more cons than pros. People who want iso, alice, f13, and 660 will have to pay 50 dollars (just and estimate, but i already know this kit is gonna be a higher price looking at projects previous sets) for only a few keys. This will ultimately cause less people to buy the extension than if it was smaller or more optimized. While this is a nice set in terms of colors and design, the kitting is just a lose lose situation.
this is all just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.
edit: taking a quick look at GMK Astral Light, the base kit actually had one less key and was 130, while the extension (only slightly bigger than the one seen here) is 65. Just for price comparison.
Post by: cijanzen on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:42:57
Whether we agree or disagree, this is how you provide good actionable feedback!that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
i couldn't have said it better myself
also why did you post this ic 4 times?that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
Neither of you have said why you dislike the kit or offered alternatives.
What isn’t working? And what about the kit would you change?
not either of the OPs, but i also think the extension kit can be trimmed a bit (and kitting as a whole), so i just quoted dis. here we go:
Right of the bat, i think that iso can be put in base. while not a huge chunk of buyers, it will help eu sales/places that use iso sales (so pretty much everywhere). No one is gonna want to buy a 110 base kit (110 is optimistic with the state that gmk is in rn) and a 50 dollar extension kit for 4 keys (the 4 needed for simple iso).
Second, there should either be an extra 2.25u shift or alice bars in base for the b to actually do anything. Currently, the base kit can only support one alice layout physically (the 2u, 2.75u bars one). Or the b can be put in extensions or with spacebars,where it belongs*cough cough, not based at all*
F13 can also be added to base, once again, no one should be paying 50 bucks for a single key.
There is no numpad 5 homing key anywhere in the set, please add this either to base or extention
In conclusion, clumping everything into one kit actually has more cons than pros. People who want iso, alice, f13, and 660 will have to pay 50 dollars (just and estimate, but i already know this kit is gonna be a higher price looking at projects previous sets) for only a few keys. This will ultimately cause less people to buy the extension than if it was smaller or more optimized. While this is a nice set in terms of colors and design, the kitting is just a lose lose situation.
this is all just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.
I do agree with several of your points though. Especially the “B”. Kinda weird in the base kit when it adds no additional support in the base kit alone.
Post by: XiXora on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:45:02
All good for me as far as I can see.
Post by: Entity. on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:47:55
Pls consider adding iso to base
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:53:26
There are plenty of ways to kit without putting alpha colored bars in kits that will be $40+. I don't need any of the other keys in the Extension or 40's kits besides the two bars. There is also not enough shifts in the base to make a makeshift Alice layout using shifts as spacebars.Please consider not locking Alice bars in the extension kit.You’ve got spacebars in the accent, extension, and forties kit.
Edit: perhaps that actually warrants splitting them out on their own? I haven’t kept up with GMK kitting so much but that would be typical for SP kitting.
See I do not understand the point of putting extra B in the base kit. If you are putting B please put the extra shifts. Thank you from treeleaf !!!
Post by: hali on Sat, 12 June 2021, 10:58:06
Even if the Base kit was $100, a price that only Honor achieved IIRC, there's no way the Extension kit would be anything below $40. So if you want ISO, 660 compatibility, two 1u spacebars that don't exist on any non-ortho layout, or a simple F13 legend to avoid duplicates, then you have to shell out $140 for keys which commonly come in $125 Base kits.
also 40s kit has half assed van support lol
Post by: sagarsiddhpura on Sat, 12 June 2021, 11:08:52
Post by: ZongZiWang on Sat, 12 June 2021, 11:11:40
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
Post by: sagarsiddhpura on Sat, 12 June 2021, 11:15:16
Post by: _IanOfEarth on Sat, 12 June 2021, 11:17:25
not either of the OPs, but i also think the extension kit can be trimmed a bit (and kitting as a whole), so i just quoted dis. here we go:
Right of the bat, i think that iso can be put in base. while not a huge chunk of buyers, it will help eu sales/places that use iso sales (so pretty much everywhere). No one is gonna want to buy a 110 base kit (110 is optimistic with the state that gmk is in rn) and a 50 dollar extension kit for 4 keys (the 4 needed for simple iso).
Second, there should either be an extra 2.25u shift or alice bars in base for the b to actually do anything. Currently, the base kit can only support one alice layout physically (the 2u, 2.75u bars one). Or the b can be put in extensions or with spacebars,where it belongs*cough cough, not based at all*
F13 can also be added to base, once again, no one should be paying 50 bucks for a single key.
There is no numpad 5 homing key anywhere in the set, please add this either to base or extention
In conclusion, clumping everything into one kit actually has more cons than pros. People who want iso, alice, f13, and 660 will have to pay 50 dollars (just and estimate, but i already know this kit is gonna be a higher price looking at projects previous sets) for only a few keys. This will ultimately cause less people to buy the extension than if it was smaller or more optimized. While this is a nice set in terms of colors and design, the kitting is just a lose lose situation.
this is all just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.
edit: taking a quick look at GMK Astral Light, the base kit actually had one less key and was 130, while the extension (only slightly bigger than the one seen here) is 65. Just for price comparison.
Nailed it, this is all really good feedback that makes sense. Very happy to see macOS/Unix support for HHKB/7u in the Extensions kit, but overall that kit is doing too much.
Post by: noodleman on Sat, 12 June 2021, 11:29:14
Post by: Kinesiologist on Sat, 12 June 2021, 11:36:45
Post by: Seoulcialite on Sat, 12 June 2021, 11:53:17
Here's my contribution.
(https://i.imgur.com/NaBsqd7.jpg)
Post by: onefivenine on Sat, 12 June 2021, 11:57:54
Personally, I think the kitting here makes a lot of sense. ISO users may see some better pricing because they’re grouped with the extension kit (in an ideal world at least).
Base kit covers a decent chunk of boards but perhaps with, I think just one more shift(?) could cover Alice in a less ideal way.
Yup! We wanted to be more inclusive for UK-ISO users by backing them up with other keys for extended support. An international kit has been considered, but opted against it for low attachment rates.
IMO, makeshift spacebars is not ideal. Argument for 660 support makes sense but why would you want mod-colored shifts as spacebars when convex alpha colored split spacebars are available?See I do not understand the point of putting extra B in the base kit. If you are putting B please put the extra shifts. Thank you from treeleaf !!!There are plenty of ways to kit without putting alpha colored bars in kits that will be $40+. I don't need any of the other keys in the Extension or 40's kits besides the two bars. There is also not enough shifts in the base to make a makeshift Alice layout using shifts as spacebars.Please consider not locking Alice bars in the extension kit.You’ve got spacebars in the accent, extension, and forties kit.
Edit: perhaps that actually warrants splitting them out on their own? I haven’t kept up with GMK kitting so much but that would be typical for SP kitting.
Also no renders. How does the set look like with novelties? How does it look with mod kit? How does a board look on new deskmats? Its up to you to imagine. You are trying to sell a set without even showing what that looks like. Astral suffered from this and now this. You should setup a gofundme for basic renders. People **** on half baked IC's without renders and this is the same. Please make an updateWe'll get these up for you soon bb. We wanted to get feedback on the changes to the kitting <3
can we have two base kits so we don't need to buy base + hangul?I have also considered this, but I know a lot of folks from Round 1 missed out on Hangul Child kit. Also, if a user wanted both Latin and Hangul compatibility, they would have to purchase 2 base kits. Double base kits is a great idea for Round 3 :)
that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
i couldn't have said it better myself
also why did you post this ic 4 times?that extension kit makes me want to quit the hobby
Neither of you have said why you dislike the kit or offered alternatives.
What isn’t working? And what about the kit would you change?
not either of the OPs, but i also think the extension kit can be trimmed a bit (and kitting as a whole), so i just quoted dis. here we go:
Right of the bat, i think that iso can be put in base. while not a huge chunk of buyers, it will help eu sales/places that use iso sales (so pretty much everywhere). No one is gonna want to buy a 110 base kit (110 is optimistic with the state that gmk is in rn) and a 50 dollar extension kit for 4 keys (the 4 needed for simple iso).
Second, there should either be an extra 2.25u shift or alice bars in base for the b to actually do anything. Currently, the base kit can only support one alice layout physically (the 2u, 2.75u bars one). Or the b can be put in extensions or with spacebars,where it belongs*cough cough, not based at all*
F13 can also be added to base, once again, no one should be paying 50 bucks for a single key.
There is no numpad 5 homing key anywhere in the set, please add this either to base or extention
In conclusion, clumping everything into one kit actually has more cons than pros. People who want iso, alice, f13, and 660 will have to pay 50 dollars (just and estimate, but i already know this kit is gonna be a higher price looking at projects previous sets) for only a few keys. This will ultimately cause less people to buy the extension than if it was smaller or more optimized. While this is a nice set in terms of colors and design, the kitting is just a lose lose situation.
this is all just my opinion, we can agree to disagree.
edit: taking a quick look at GMK Astral Light, the base kit actually had one less key and was 130, while the extension (only slightly bigger than the one seen here) is 65. Just for price comparison.
This is great feedback. I am going to play around with moving some keys around today at the office.
Here are some thoughts:
- Move terminal ISO to base / Remove UK-ISO from Extension Kit
- Move accent arrows to base / drop the Accent Kit
- Add a spacebar kit (alice/split support) / remove split bars from Extension Kit
Keep the feedback coming!
Post by: Zetina on Sat, 12 June 2021, 12:05:01
Post by: hali on Sat, 12 June 2021, 12:05:12
Post by: crestia on Sat, 12 June 2021, 12:05:45
Post by: onefivenine on Sat, 12 June 2021, 12:08:45
Thanks for R2 but I think base needs some work, at least consider adding F13 to the base or even an extension kitI think F13 in extension kit is appropriate. Moving to base would make more sense as we see more boards support this key.
I suggest trying to move as many Extension keys to Base as possible and removing accent arrows from spacebars. The price of the bars kit is going to be completely dredged with three colours and the addition of doubleshot keys.As a vendor, having less SKUs = better. We're trying to balance price and compatibility to keep everyone happy as possible :) I will look into this.
Post by: wholypantalones on Sat, 12 June 2021, 12:27:06
(https://i.imgur.com/Vlg2Vfq.png)
Post by: sup3r170va on Sat, 12 June 2021, 12:46:56
Thumbs up for the R5 kit. Would definitively get it.
I prefer icon only mods over icon+text, especially with the hangul sublegends.
Post by: hangul on Sat, 12 June 2021, 13:01:29
split spacebars in the base kit pls
Post by: cijanzen on Sat, 12 June 2021, 13:08:30
Post by: hkhawk on Sat, 12 June 2021, 13:13:56
Please consider not locking Alice bars in the extension kit.
This, and also please put F13 in the Base Kit
Post by: A.Belousov on Sat, 12 June 2021, 13:16:59
Please add them in any kit
Post by: Project Keyboard on Sat, 12 June 2021, 13:34:24
where R5 kit?FixedShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/Vlg2Vfq.png)
Yeah, the IC form is not setup properly. Can’t access it.Fixed
Post by: Havattack on Sat, 12 June 2021, 13:34:52
Get it together GH.
Post by: matthewdias on Sat, 12 June 2021, 14:56:53
Post by: nebluh on Sat, 12 June 2021, 15:34:47
Post by: IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES on Sat, 12 June 2021, 16:29:11
The decision to not run Hangul base leaves you another option: change the mod kit to a base kit w mod colored alphas, ie the inverse. Price at 250 MOQ is still…140? That isn’t a huge base kit. Get 500 MOQ and it’s obviously notably cheaper. This set is a monster and you know there’s interest. You leverage the community’s tendency to buy heavily into base kits, the pricing for the mods only crowd changed by about…half what that extension kit will cost? The r1 users who loved the colors get something new to buy.
Post by: WejB on Sat, 12 June 2021, 16:41:33
What thread am I supposed to be looking at ._.
Anyhow, consider dropping off center space and adding alpha coloured 3-1-3 bars for the “accents” kit. Some form of iso in base would be cool. Excited to see an r2 tho :thumb:
I agree. I dont wanna pay 40$+ just to use my preferred base layout
Post by: LittleAad on Sat, 12 June 2021, 16:55:53
Post by: jameski99 on Sat, 12 June 2021, 17:10:02
Post by: XiXora on Sat, 12 June 2021, 17:28:14
Don't kill UK-ISO dreams. I can still live with them in the extension kit with spare US-ISO 1u from the base…
Post by: asy on Sat, 12 June 2021, 18:47:18
Is the a chance that you can bring back the R1 deskmats for R2?
I hope there'd be a way. I'd definitely get them.
Post by: rowie on Sat, 12 June 2021, 18:51:25
Post by: r00dy on Sat, 12 June 2021, 20:01:57
Post by: onefivenine on Sat, 12 June 2021, 20:36:59
We hope this gets us closer to what the community wants and to group buy.
Post by: XiXora on Sat, 12 June 2021, 20:53:59
Is it possible for 2x 1.5u Supers + 2x 1u alt in r5 since they're in ext kit?
Post by: heyimpanda on Sat, 12 June 2021, 22:51:33
Post by: Lufenia on Sat, 12 June 2021, 22:52:34
Post by: Neely_12 on Sat, 12 June 2021, 23:04:24
Post by: totalemon on Sat, 12 June 2021, 23:35:00
Post by: SafeAtShore on Sat, 12 June 2021, 23:49:12
Extension kit feels like a cash grab tbh. Could use a bit of trimming, especially adding iso support in base.
Agreed. There's still no reason to spin those off into a separate kit when other sets have a lot of those keys in base. We all know this set can hit a high MOQ, so base and extensions kits could absolutely be merged. Justifying it by saying there aren't a lot of boards with those layouts is a cop-out; there will always be leftover caps from base, and pricing will be reasonable with high MOQ.
We really shouldn't pay extra for something that should be in base to begin with, but the designer knows this set is too popular to fail.
Post by: bball2 on Sun, 13 June 2021, 01:14:15
Post by: VoodooBear on Sun, 13 June 2021, 03:04:41
Post by: Quinella on Sun, 13 June 2021, 03:04:53
Post by: Fraaaan on Sun, 13 June 2021, 05:21:18
Post by: lalostad98 on Sun, 13 June 2021, 09:00:07
Also, there's no need to have a second b for alice layout without having enough shifts to have basic alice layout support (without spacebars).
Post by: ZavaZ86 on Sun, 13 June 2021, 09:04:34
Post by: Lufenia on Sun, 13 June 2021, 09:44:43
So hard disagree on removing the second B
Edit: A word
Post by: rowie on Sun, 13 June 2021, 10:32:13
Post by: paulgali on Sun, 13 June 2021, 11:28:53
- B in base is useless without the subsequent shifts to at least cover alice style layouts. Keep b in base, add shifts, or add the alice bars into base.
- You have excluded F13 so we would need to buy a whole kit for one single key, that is more and more commonly in use
- Not having UK ISO in base is okay, I guess - but you should absolutely (at the very least) support the ISO layout.
It's clear you are reading feedback on the IC, but at this point it is a cashgrab, you are selectively kitting to try and maximize kits sold. Base should cover the majority of layouts, and leaving out ISO completely is not something that should be taken lightly. Please consider changes, as you have already done so.
Post by: andrewregal on Sun, 13 June 2021, 11:37:39
Post by: hottrout on Sun, 13 June 2021, 13:22:08
Post by: onefivenine on Sun, 13 June 2021, 14:39:15
Did you seriously move ISO support to the international kit? You guys are a joke.
I missed the R1 of this set and I love the colours. I really want to join this round, but moving ISO to a separate kit is strange given that a lot of people have been adding UK ISO to the base. I think you need to look at your kitting again, for everyone.ISO: The alternative would be to put us/terminal ISO in base. This would provide physical compatibility, but you would lose the expanded support for nordeuk etc. I am open to this idea, but would prefer that users have access to their preferred aesthetics. Let me know your thoughts!
]
You're not listening to anyone in this thread.B in base: The extra "B" key in base kit does NOT change the price of the base set, it allows for Alice support if you add the following child kits:
- B in base is useless without the subsequent shifts to at least cover alice style layouts. Keep b in base, add shifts, or add the alice bars into base.
- You have excluded F13 so we would need to buy a whole kit for one single key, that is more and more commonly in use
- Not having UK ISO in base is okay, I guess - but you should absolutely (at the very least) support the ISO layout.
It's clear you are reading feedback on the IC, but at this point it is a cashgrab, you are selectively kitting to try and maximize kits sold. Base should cover the majority of layouts, and leaving out ISO completely is not something that should be taken lightly. Please consider changes, as you have already done so.
- Accent Kit
- Extension Kit
- Fourties Kit
ISO: See reply above.
F13 not in base: F13 is included in the extension kit, which supports extended 65+ cluster, Alice/split bars, Terminal/Mac users. F13 is also included in the Mod Kit.
Wow now I’ll end up with two base kits in addition to getting the lighter mod kit. Ughhh. I was originally planning to get one base kit and the Hangul with the lighter mod kit. It would of been nice if Hangul was combined with the lighter mod kit to have something different, kinda of like having Olivia light and Olivia dark kits.Are you trying to cover 2 boards? If so, the previous kitting of the Hangul child kit does not have punctuations, numbers, nor F-row keys. You wouldn't have been able to achieve this.
I'm a bit confused reading the edited first post because there is a "More" button under most of the images. Does this mean that there will be both a Hangul Kit and Hangul Base Kit offered? Or is it only the top version that is updated and the one in the expanded view can be ignored?Photos listed in the "More" section are previous proposed kits. They have been left there for reference and progression.
People asking for basic iso support in base and in return you put it in international amazing job. Now people who want hangul base are forced to buy international kit. This so called IC seems more like a copy paste of kits put up by dixie with dualshot r2 where the same thing happened. Hopefully that's not the case...I don't believe this is the voice of all ISO users. We have received a spectrum of request on ISO support ranging from: basic iso to international kit.
Wondering if the 1 u backspace could have the text + icon instead of just the text. I know it's niche but having the rest of the 40s mods with text + icon but a 1 u backspace with text only stands out. Also since the enter key has both text and the icon, I figure it should be possible but please correct me if I'm wrong.This should be possible. I believe other sets have done this before and this change can be done after verifying in the next kit update.
Argh, now I have to pay way more for UK keys. Oh well, better than nothing and has the accent that a lot of other kits miss out.This is a pretty big ask. I will consider moving these keys to R5 from the Extension Kit. Maybe.
Is it possible for 2x 1.5u Supers + 2x 1u alt in r5 since they're in ext kit?
Please consider adding stepped Ctrl for the extension kit. I have plenty of hhkb boards and other 60-65 % that use stepped Ctrl. Come to think of it all my setups are mostly stepped Ctrl since capslock is something I don’t use. ;D Thanks.I will consider dropping the windowed keys in replace of a stepped control. However, if we opt for a bigger base kit, it may push the Extension Kit to be dispersed into Base and Accent/spacebars.
P.S. Let me try revised kitting based on the original group buy kitting. I appreciate all the feedback and interest! I'll be back later with more updates :)
Post by: Lizcuits on Sun, 13 June 2021, 14:50:14
I actually don't think putting two separate base kits is the change that anyone really wanted. There's a few people that would benefit and it's easier for people who only want one alphas option, but it comes at an extremely heavy cost for people who wanted both hangul + latin alphas.
Additionally, the changes you made to the base kit weren't really significant and didn't address much of the concerns people had.
The biggest issue I am seeing with the Base kit is its minimal coverage of boards outside the 65%-100% range and non-standard layouts. There is literally zero reason to have the B in the base kit as it stands, because you physically cannot cover any alice boards (which is the ONLY reason the B is there in the first place). If you are not going to have complete alice support or at least makeshift alice support in the base, the B has no reason to be there.
Additionally, as an Alice user, there is no real clear option whether you should buy the Extensions kit or the 40s kit (since the only things we need from those kits are the two/three bars). The kitting feels confusing and overlaps too much for such common layouts.
You can:
- Either add the shifts or bars required for Alice in base
- Remove the B and create a Spacebars kit with B included in it & all bars from Extensions & 40s
If you do neither, your kitting as it stands is completely nonsense from an Alice standpoint.
Additionally:
- Please add a spacebars kit and remove the bars from the 40s/Extensions kits or just combine both kits and add the B for total alice support.
There's no reason for these two kits to be split up in such an odd way with so much overlap especially when so much of it really ought to be in the base kit in the first place.
- Add F13 to base (the cost of this can easily be mitigated by removing B from base if that's the choice you wanted to make from our Alice suggestions)
- The Accent kit only adds to the confusion, tbh. I would move accent arrows to base and move accent bars to the Spacebars kit (that I hope you will make) or just drop them altogether
- I can somewhat understand moving ISO to an international kit but it really makes more sense to at least include the 2-3 keys required for the most bare minimum ISO support to Base.
There's no good justification for why the current base kit is so painfully barebones, especially knowing this set can make a massive MOQ to help reduce costs.
Personal preference here, but I don't really like the new deskmats so +1 to bringing back the previous mat options. They're nearly impossible to find and the new ones are a lot... less classy? And don't have quite the broad appeal.
Hope you guys don't stop your revisions and fix the issues with alice support and 40s/Extension chaos. The base kit really could hold a lot of the base support for most of these kits, and the spacebars kit could help a lot in mitigating these issues.
Post by: xtadecitrus on Sun, 13 June 2021, 15:47:42
Post by: Fraaaan on Sun, 13 June 2021, 16:28:39
The alternative would be to put us/terminal ISO in base. This would provide physical compatibility, but you would lose the expanded support for nordeuk etc. I am open to this idea, but would prefer that users have access to their preferred aesthetics. Let me know your thoughts!
Yes. That is exactly what we want. That is what we've been telling you to do since you opened up the IC but instead you moved basic ISO support to an even more expensive kit. Also Germany, UK and Scandinavian countries aren't the only ones using ISO so your "preferred aesthetics" argument makes no sense unless you're supporting every single national layout.
Post by: heyimpanda on Sun, 13 June 2021, 18:43:51
I too think the accent kit needs to be axed and have the accent arrows in base, and accent bars in the spacebar kit with the second B's. but of course I'm biased as this is best for my needs but not necessarily everyone else's. I guess that's the complexity of an R2 that needs to accommodate for both new and R1 owners who didn't buy the original child kits.
Post by: hali on Sun, 13 June 2021, 19:34:24
The Base kit needs to have as much physical compatibility as possible. ISO users just want their shifts, enters, and alpha additions for a reasonable price, yet a Norde kit was added when nobody really even asked for one. F13 is also relegated to extension which also doesn't make much sense.
How come some designers don't seem to realize that nobody wants to shell out $50 for a GK64 shift? People just aren't going to buy the extension kit.
My final recommendation is to move UKISO, 660 shift, Mac/HHKB compat bottom row, F13, and accent ISO and numpad enter to Base.
The Accent kit should just become a Spacebars kit, with arrows and a 1u spacebar removed and two 3u bars added.
Windowed keys should have Scroll Lock and Num Lock added, and can also go to novelties for all I care; they're accent keys anyways.
Novelties kit should have some alpha coloured keys removed because an alpha macro column is just kinda cursed.
On top of these, I highly recommend reconsidering the Alt mod, R5, and Norde kits. I haven't seen much Alt mod praise in this thread, R5 doesn't make much sense, and there was little to no demand for Norde in the thread alone - though more opinions about it might arise if physical ISO support is addressed properly first.
Post by: puppydork on Sun, 13 June 2021, 20:24:06
I won't comment about the kits, since a lot have voiced their opinion on it already. Hopefully, everyone can get into an agreement.
Post by: Lizcuits on Sun, 13 June 2021, 21:44:11
Novelties kit should have some alpha coloured keys removed because an alpha macro column is just kinda cursed.
On top of these, I highly recommend reconsidering the Alt mod, R5, and Norde kits. I haven't seen much Alt mod praise in this thread, R5 doesn't make much sense, and there was little to no demand for Norde in the thread alone - though more opinions about it might arise if physical ISO support is addressed properly first.
I also agree on the alt mod kit especially. I can't see it selling well and that's the reason the novelties kit has the alpha colored keys I'm guessing. Cutting alt mods would therefore shave a bit off of the novelties kit pricing.
+1 for moving Windowed keys to novelties as well, I want to have them without having to buy a strange compat kit I don't need just for a few novelty keys.
If Norde will hit MOQ I guess there's no issue including it, but it's such a huge kit I can't imagine it will be cheap enough to justify for a lot of people. I would probably recommend trimming it down a bit (moving ISO to base will help...) so it's less enormous.
As for R5 it does feel a bit out of place but again, no real harm in it if it's going to hit MOQ which it likely will considering how high profile this set is.
Post by: DeMechanica on Sun, 13 June 2021, 23:55:10
Post by: FaIIen on Mon, 14 June 2021, 00:08:38
Take my money
Post by: sup3r170va on Mon, 14 June 2021, 00:43:11
Second question is regarding F13. Will it increase the price by including it in the base kit? Cos it’s a TKL tied key. A bit odd to buy an extra kit just to get this key.
Did you seriously move ISO support to the international kit? You guys are a joke.I missed the R1 of this set and I love the colours. I really want to join this round, but moving ISO to a separate kit is strange given that a lot of people have been adding UK ISO to the base. I think you need to look at your kitting again, for everyone.ISO: The alternative would be to put us/terminal ISO in base. This would provide physical compatibility, but you would lose the expanded support for nordeuk etc. I am open to this idea, but would prefer that users have access to their preferred aesthetics. Let me know your thoughts!
]You're not listening to anyone in this thread.B in base: The extra "B" key in base kit does NOT change the price of the base set, it allows for Alice support if you add the following child kits:
- B in base is useless without the subsequent shifts to at least cover alice style layouts. Keep b in base, add shifts, or add the alice bars into base.
- You have excluded F13 so we would need to buy a whole kit for one single key, that is more and more commonly in use
- Not having UK ISO in base is okay, I guess - but you should absolutely (at the very least) support the ISO layout.
It's clear you are reading feedback on the IC, but at this point it is a cashgrab, you are selectively kitting to try and maximize kits sold. Base should cover the majority of layouts, and leaving out ISO completely is not something that should be taken lightly. Please consider changes, as you have already done so.This makes more sense than adding an extra "B" to each of those 3 kits.
- Accent Kit
- Extension Kit
- Fourties Kit
ISO: See reply above.
F13 not in base: F13 is included in the extension kit, which supports extended 65+ cluster, Alice/split bars, Terminal/Mac users. F13 is also included in the Mod Kit.Wow now I’ll end up with two base kits in addition to getting the lighter mod kit. Ughhh. I was originally planning to get one base kit and the Hangul with the lighter mod kit. It would of been nice if Hangul was combined with the lighter mod kit to have something different, kinda of like having Olivia light and Olivia dark kits.Are you trying to cover 2 boards? If so, the previous kitting of the Hangul child kit does not have punctuations, numbers, nor F-row keys. You wouldn't have been able to achieve this.I'm a bit confused reading the edited first post because there is a "More" button under most of the images. Does this mean that there will be both a Hangul Kit and Hangul Base Kit offered? Or is it only the top version that is updated and the one in the expanded view can be ignored?Photos listed in the "More" section are previous proposed kits. They have been left there for reference and progression.People asking for basic iso support in base and in return you put it in international amazing job. Now people who want hangul base are forced to buy international kit. This so called IC seems more like a copy paste of kits put up by dixie with dualshot r2 where the same thing happened. Hopefully that's not the case...I don't believe this is the voice of all ISO users. We have received a spectrum of request on ISO support ranging from: basic iso to international kit.Wondering if the 1 u backspace could have the text + icon instead of just the text. I know it's niche but having the rest of the 40s mods with text + icon but a 1 u backspace with text only stands out. Also since the enter key has both text and the icon, I figure it should be possible but please correct me if I'm wrong.This should be possible. I believe other sets have done this before and this change can be done after verifying in the next kit update.Argh, now I have to pay way more for UK keys. Oh well, better than nothing and has the accent that a lot of other kits miss out.This is a pretty big ask. I will consider moving these keys to R5 from the Extension Kit. Maybe.
Is it possible for 2x 1.5u Supers + 2x 1u alt in r5 since they're in ext kit?Please consider adding stepped Ctrl for the extension kit. I have plenty of hhkb boards and other 60-65 % that use stepped Ctrl. Come to think of it all my setups are mostly stepped Ctrl since capslock is something I don’t use. ;D Thanks.I will consider dropping the windowed keys in replace of a stepped control. However, if we opt for a bigger base kit, it may push the Extension Kit to be dispersed into Base and Accent/spacebars.
P.S. Let me try revised kitting based on the original group buy kitting. I appreciate all the feedback and interest! I'll be back later with more updates :)
Post by: catfromonomichi on Mon, 14 June 2021, 03:58:42
Post by: busytimmy on Mon, 14 June 2021, 04:45:59
Post by: alpaone on Mon, 14 June 2021, 05:15:37
[...][...]This is a pretty big ask. I will consider moving these keys to R5 from the Extension Kit. Maybe.
Is it possible for 2x 1.5u Supers + 2x 1u alt in r5 since they're in ext kit?
[...]
However, if we opt for a bigger base kit, it may push the Extension Kit to be dispersed into Base and Accent/spacebars.
Please keep those keys as R4 in either the extension or base kit.
Post by: Bubblegum on Mon, 14 June 2021, 05:31:38
That said I think that basic physical ISO support should always be included in base kits. That being the four keys making you able to cover all keys on an ISO layout keyboard. Would be solved by moving one of the ISO Enter keys, 1.25u shift and 2 alphas from the international kit to base kit.
GL with IC! In for NorDeUK <3
Post by: bukowski on Mon, 14 June 2021, 06:32:53
Post by: roguesystem087 on Mon, 14 June 2021, 07:49:32
Post by: noodleman on Mon, 14 June 2021, 12:19:12
Post by: azack on Mon, 14 June 2021, 12:48:10
Post by: hkhawk on Mon, 14 June 2021, 14:05:02
Post by: NotYellow on Tue, 15 June 2021, 13:53:24
Post by: Gnome on Tue, 15 June 2021, 14:17:51
I can't help but to feel like this is pretty cashgrabby with the amount of kits and poor support across them.
I do appreciate you guys taking a step back and try to fix the kitting instead of running it with scuffed kitting like someone else did on another recent r2.
:thumb: good luck, i like the colors so waiting to see if price pleases me aswell.
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 15 June 2021, 14:21:27
Post by: J3ff_Leopard on Tue, 15 June 2021, 15:52:35
Post by: hali on Tue, 15 June 2021, 16:11:19
Why don't people like the kitting? I'm pretty sure the base can cover literally every board I own. Only additional thing I'd pick up is the R5 kit. Is this a thing where their acrylic stacked Alice doesn't get perfect support?
It's a thing that results in the financial defilement (or lost purchase) of anybody who uses ISO, 660, or F13.
Post by: dxxbox on Tue, 15 June 2021, 20:55:25
Post by: dudewth on Tue, 15 June 2021, 21:16:47
Post by: heyman on Wed, 16 June 2021, 02:32:07
· Remove numpad from base, Add numpad kit. (reduce base price)
· Put 'F13' in base.
· More Novelties pls.
· Add white alphas kit with spacebar, can be used with mod kit.
· If possible, Icon kit is necessary because it looks so clean.
Post by: hottrout on Wed, 16 June 2021, 02:58:08
· Remove extra 'b' from base, put extra 'b' in Extension kit. (Alice need it and 2.25u spacebar or extra 2.25u shift)
· Remove numpad from base, Add numpad kit. (reduce base price)
· Put 'F13' in base.
· More Novelties pls.
· Add white alphas kit with spacebar, can be used with mod kit.
· If possible, Icon kit is necessary because it looks so clean.
Solid idea and to finish just add UK ISO into the base kit and we are done.
Post by: J3ff_Leopard on Wed, 16 June 2021, 03:31:55
· Remove extra 'b' from base, put extra 'b' in Extension kit. (Alice need it and 2.25u spacebar or extra 2.25u shift)
· Remove numpad from base, Add numpad kit. (reduce base price)
· Put 'F13' in base.
· More Novelties pls.
· Add white alphas kit with spacebar, can be used with mod kit.
· If possible, Icon kit is necessary because it looks so clean.
Removing numpad saves you $10-$15 and increases the price by $50 for people who actually use it. I do not abide.
Post by: ZongZiWang on Wed, 16 June 2021, 05:18:44
· Remove extra 'b' from base, put extra 'b' in Extension kit. (Alice need it and 2.25u spacebar or extra 2.25u shift)Remove B from base kit saves $0 and I need to spend $30-50 additionally, even I have Alice spacebars in CP color from Olivia, which can be working as accent bars for Bingsu. Hope this does not happen.
· Remove numpad from base, Add numpad kit. (reduce base price)
· Put 'F13' in base.
· More Novelties pls.
· Add white alphas kit with spacebar, can be used with mod kit.
· If possible, Icon kit is necessary because it looks so clean.
Second on other suggestions!
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
Post by: azack on Wed, 16 June 2021, 05:21:03
· Remove extra 'b' from base, put extra 'b' in Extension kit. (Alice need it and 2.25u spacebar or extra 2.25u shift)
· Remove numpad from base, Add numpad kit. (reduce base price)
· Put 'F13' in base.
· More Novelties pls.
· Add white alphas kit with spacebar, can be used with mod kit.
· If possible, Icon kit is necessary because it looks so clean.
Since 'b' doesn't add to the cost, no point in removing it since it gives people the opportunity to just purchase accented spacebars. Personally I rather just leave the numpad in base since the price should be rather reasonable in the first place (high moq) so i do not agree with removing numpad from base which will lead to an absurd separate numpad price.
Post by: hali on Wed, 16 June 2021, 07:46:14
Post by: LightningXI on Wed, 16 June 2021, 08:40:22
- F13 in Extension is fine.
- Numpad should stay in base. I am honestly against splitting Numpad from base unless it were exactly the same net price adding it as a separate kit. In most cases, as far as pricing is concerned, it's worse and costlier for Numpad users when it's split off.
- The point about extra B being in the base to be combined with CP bars from OG Spacekeys, Oblivion, or even an unrelated accent color is actually pretty good. Wouldn't just adding the second Bs to Extension and Forties somewhat circumvent this argument in the thread? That way Alice users who'd buy 40s or Extension anyway would be happy, and even have extra B's to spare. And those who buy only Base and use them with accent bars would be OK too.
- Even though I love Alice layout, I don't think Alice spacebar support needs to be in Base.
- I'm actually in favor of physical ISO support in base. But I'm not an ISO user so I have no real preference in this. But if I were, I'd think it sucks I have to buy an expensive, chonky INTL kit just to even put caps on a board, even if the legends aren't exactly what I want.
- Wish there were accents and alternate mod kit keys in R5 but I can live with R4 because I know it's expensive and unlikely to jive with everyone
- Same goes with R5 novelties -- wish there were fewer keys in that kit in R2/R3, or removing the ones in accent colors, just so that there at least can be 1u novelties in R5.
I'm actually okay with much of the kitting but just wanted to post some thoughts.
Post by: o3okevin on Wed, 16 June 2021, 08:44:49
- Create spacebar kit out of accented bars and split bars from extension
- Move the rest of extension keys to base, and accented arrow/numpad enter to base
- Bye bye extension kit
Also solves the F13 issue that's been a major talking point so far.
Post by: LightningXI on Wed, 16 June 2021, 08:56:18
For the Alice support issue, how about:
- Create spacebar kit out of accented bars and split bars from extension
- Move the rest of extension keys to base, and accented arrow/numpad enter to base
- Bye bye extension kit
Also solves the F13 issue that's been a major talking point so far.
While I personally don't mind buying a chonky Base kit because I tend to buy kits that support all possible layouts that I'd use (pretty much anything from 60 to full size, so I want numpad and Alice support often, too, for example), I feel like getting rid of Extension and moving all of those alternate keys into Base would make it pretty expensive to those who just want to get only Base for their designated keyboard.
This favors Alice users, sure, but is unfavorable for what I think is likely the larger portion of the customer base (more people only buy Base and want to have it as cheap as possible).
I think makeshift Alice support in base (2.25u Shift) as Liz suggested is also a way to compromise. Or the removal of Accents (while trimming Extension and 40s) in favor of a separate Spacebars kit, if it had to be the same number of SKUs.
Post by: hkhawk on Wed, 16 June 2021, 16:53:25
· Remove extra 'b' from base, put extra 'b' in Extension kit. (Alice need it and 2.25u spacebar or extra 2.25u shift)
· Remove numpad from base, Add numpad kit. (reduce base price)
· Put 'F13' in base.
· More Novelties pls.
· Add white alphas kit with spacebar, can be used with mod kit.
· If possible, Icon kit is necessary because it looks so clean.
Please do NOT remove numpad from Base
Post by: o3okevin on Wed, 16 June 2021, 20:54:45
For the Alice support issue, how about:
- Create spacebar kit out of accented bars and split bars from extension
- Move the rest of extension keys to base, and accented arrow/numpad enter to base
- Bye bye extension kit
Also solves the F13 issue that's been a major talking point so far.
While I personally don't mind buying a chonky Base kit because I tend to buy kits that support all possible layouts that I'd use (pretty much anything from 60 to full size, so I want numpad and Alice support often, too, for example), I feel like getting rid of Extension and moving all of those alternate keys into Base would make it pretty expensive to those who just want to get only Base for their designated keyboard.
This favors Alice users, sure, but is unfavorable for what I think is likely the larger portion of the customer base (more people only buy Base and want to have it as cheap as possible).
I think makeshift Alice support in base (2.25u Shift) as Liz suggested is also a way to compromise. Or the removal of Accents (while trimming Extension and 40s) in favor of a separate Spacebars kit, if it had to be the same number of SKUs.
That is true, but I'm of the belief that this is a popular enough set that they can safely price it at a higher MOQ even with a larger base set (of course this does have its compromises, especially on the vendor's side, but I'm speaking in optimistics).
Moving accents out would work as well + separate spacebars
Post by: Auracity on Wed, 16 June 2021, 21:04:26
Post by: roguesystem087 on Wed, 16 June 2021, 21:56:52
- It would be great if we kept the numpad
- I think what Lightning said is pretty reasonable,
- novelties seem a little lacking, but then again i have no idea what else I would add to make it fancier
- I hope we can just get the old icon mods. Bingsu seems to look a bit crowded with text or icon+text.
Post by: Pluto19 on Wed, 16 June 2021, 22:08:58
Post by: Easonic on Wed, 16 June 2021, 22:15:51
Post by: azack on Wed, 16 June 2021, 22:52:37
Post by: paulgali on Thu, 17 June 2021, 05:06:13
You're not listening to anyone in this thread.
- B in base is useless without the subsequent shifts to at least cover alice style layouts. Keep b in base, add shifts, or add the alice bars into base.
- You have excluded F13 so we would need to buy a whole kit for one single key, that is more and more commonly in use
- Not having UK ISO in base is okay, I guess - but you should absolutely (at the very least) support the ISO layout.
It's clear you are reading feedback on the IC, but at this point it is a cashgrab, you are selectively kitting to try and maximize kits sold. Base should cover the majority of layouts, and leaving out ISO completely is not something that should be taken lightly. Please consider changes, as you have already done so.
B in base: The extra "B" key in base kit does NOT change the price of the base set, it allows for Alice support if you add the following child kits:This makes more sense than adding an extra "B" to each of those 3 kits.
- Accent Kit
- Extension Kit
- Fourties Kit
ISO: See reply above.
F13 not in base: F13 is included in the extension kit, which supports extended 65+ cluster, Alice/split bars, Terminal/Mac users. F13 is also included in the Mod Kit.
The point of a 2nd b in base is to allow alice support using the extra shifts available. Nowhere did I say it affects the price. Because you are missing shifts, we can no longer use this on ergo without buying additional space kits. You should be supporting the physical layout no matter what (same for ISO, terminal + r3 pipe should be mandatory). I didn't say add b to the other 3 kits. All you have to do is add the extra shift key and it would be fine. F13 being in the mod kit is irrelevant if users dont want the lighter mods
I still stand by my ISO layout and F13 comments, it should be in base. You are stripping this base kit and forcing buyers to purchase unnecessary extra kits for one or 2 keys.
Accommodate layouts at the very least. You are stripping the base kit to line your pocket and taking advantage of the fact the colorway is sought after. I thought after your rebrand you did good things, this is honestly a step backwards. Help the community, don't hinder it. If my honesty is too harsh, I'm sorry, but I do not speak alone when we only ask for one thing - supporting physical layouts in base.
Post by: Omarpixel9 on Thu, 17 June 2021, 05:43:16
ISO: The alternative would be to put us/terminal ISO in base. This would provide physical compatibility, but you would lose the expanded support for nordeuk etc. I am open to this idea, but would prefer that users have access to their preferred aesthetics. Let me know your thoughts!
Honestly? Functionality over aesthetics. Having the absolute minimum ISO layout in base kit would allow more people to be able to actually physically use their keyboard with it.
Post by: carlouws on Thu, 17 June 2021, 12:03:10
Post by: hali on Thu, 17 June 2021, 15:53:37
Is it remotely possible to add a macro kit (look at GMK Symbiote macro kit) or add macro keys to extension kit for boards like Ion Jubi, Ion Zenith, Kmac mini, etc? I know physical support is already possible with the F-row but it would be nice to have the cherry sculpt instead of all R1 while also being mono-colored (mod colors). Thanks for your consideration.
Feels very unnecessary when the Novelties are already columns
Post by: OscillatorSlave on Thu, 17 June 2021, 16:13:10
Post by: paulgali on Thu, 17 June 2021, 16:13:42
Sorry for the really nooby question but would the base kit cover everything I need for a Drop Alt? Thank youYes
Post by: WillyWortel on Thu, 17 June 2021, 16:41:22
Post by: Pluto19 on Thu, 17 June 2021, 18:18:13
¤ ¤ ¤
The point of a 2nd b in base is to allow alice support using the extra shifts available.Totally disagree here as their reasoning is extremely logical and well-considered.
Nowhere did I say it affects the price. Because you are missing shifts, we can no longer use this on ergo without buying additional space kits. You should be supporting the physical layout no matter what (same for ISO, terminal + r3 pipe should be mandatory). I didn't say add b to the other 3 kits. All you have to do is add the extra shift key and it would be fine. F13 being in the mod kit is irrelevant if users dont want the lighter modsAgain, a lot of people overlook this, but both Base kits already have physical Alice support with the 2u Zero for use on the left space and the 2.75u Shift for use on the right space. I don't think I'd have to point out that in doing so would force a split right Shift, but some may not know.
Now, it'd be different if your main reasoning behind the extra 2.25u Shift's inclusion in the Base kits were for 660 users, but that doesn't seem to be so that's a different time.
I still stand by my ISO layout and F13 comments, it should be in base. You are stripping this base kit and forcing buyers to purchase unnecessary extra kits for one or 2 keys.Physical ISO compatibility in Base is something I'd also agree with, however we don't know how requested, if at all, an International ISO kit is/was nor whether any involved parties are willing/going to guarantee its MOQ as we've seen with other GMK sets. It might not be the cheapest option for a small group of users, but it could definitely be the slightly more expensive and more inclusive kitting if this were to be the case.
F13 I couldn't care less about, but at least there's plenty of alternatives in the Base kits for that if F13 stays in Extension.
Accommodate layouts at the very least. You are stripping the base kit to line your pocket and taking advantage of the fact the colorway is sought after. I thought after your rebrand you did good things, this is honestly a step backwards. Help the community, don't hinder it. If my honesty is too harsh, I'm sorry, but I do not speak alone when we only ask for one thing - supporting physical layouts in base.A bit passionate, but at least it shows that you really like the set too
Post by: actress on Thu, 17 June 2021, 18:38:15
Keep the text+icon mods :thumb:
Post by: onefivenine on Thu, 17 June 2021, 21:05:24
Base:
- Basic/terminal ISO has been added
- F13 added
- Extra "B" dropped
- Accent arrows and numpad enter added
Hangul:
- Reverted back to child kit
Spacebar:
- Previously "Accent Kit"
- Split spacebars and extra "B" added
Extension:
- Stepped "Control" added
- R4 1.5u "Function" added
- Windowed "Num" and "Scroll" added
International:
- Kit size reduced (terminal ISO in base increases the likelihood of this kit not reaching MOQ)
Common Questions:
Q: Can we have icon mods instead?
A: Not for this run. First round had both icon and text options. We would like to do something different this time.
Q: Can we have the old deskmats?
A: No we do not want to rerun previous mats. However, we are working on extra designs for those looking for something simple.
Q: Where are renders?
A: Renders will be provided after we have finalized kitting. We want to make sure that renders have keycaps that are available in the kitting.
Notes:
- Reviewing Novelties Kit to reduce some redundancy.
- Reviewing Row 5 Kit for possible key additions.
- Please realize that we are doing our best to accommodate as many users as possible. The demographic and metrics of the KB community has changed in the past couple of years. We want to be inclusive and mindful of the growing layouts and their popularity.
Post by: roguesystem087 on Thu, 17 June 2021, 21:14:15
Post by: hkhawk on Thu, 17 June 2021, 21:41:48
Post by: heyimpanda on Thu, 17 June 2021, 21:42:17
Post by: upstairscoffee5 on Thu, 17 June 2021, 22:04:57
Post by: heyman on Thu, 17 June 2021, 22:33:39
· Remove extra 'b' from base, put extra 'b' in Extension kit. (Alice need it and 2.25u spacebar or extra 2.25u shift)
· Remove numpad from base, Add numpad kit. (reduce base price)
· Put 'F13' in base.
· More Novelties pls.
· Add white alphas kit with spacebar, can be used with mod kit.
· If possible, Icon kit is necessary because it looks so clean.
Removing numpad saves you $10-$15 and increases the price by $50 for people who actually use it. I do not abide.
Yeah, separate numpad will be more expensive, but more people will avoid the extra money. the lower the price of base kit, the more the sales volume of base kit. I think very few people will use numpad, basically 60 65 tkl, but i think numpad big probability will stay in base in the end, just the difference between 10 people pay $10 and 2 people pay $50, but 8 of them won't use numpad
Post by: heyman on Thu, 17 June 2021, 22:40:43
· Remove extra 'b' from base, put extra 'b' in Extension kit. (Alice need it and 2.25u spacebar or extra 2.25u shift)Remove B from base kit saves $0 and I need to spend $30-50 additionally, even I have Alice spacebars in CP color from Olivia, which can be working as accent bars for Bingsu. Hope this does not happen.
· Remove numpad from base, Add numpad kit. (reduce base price)
· Put 'F13' in base.
· More Novelties pls.
· Add white alphas kit with spacebar, can be used with mod kit.
· If possible, Icon kit is necessary because it looks so clean.
Second on other suggestions!
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
If no extra 2.25shift, only extra 'B' in base can't support alice layout, it will look cleaner if it is removed, unless base add another 2.25shift
Post by: Pluto19 on Thu, 17 June 2021, 23:00:05
If no extra 2.25shift, only extra 'B' in base can't support alice layout, it will look cleaner if it is removed, unless base add another 2.25shiftYes... yes it can. As I said before, 2u Zero can be used.
Post by: Lizcuits on Thu, 17 June 2021, 23:17:45
I also wish the windowed keys would be moved to Novelties but I am okay with them as it stands since Extensions has been reduced to a (most likely) more affordable kit.
Spacebar kit w/B was the move. Very happy with that choice!
Thanks for taking feedback into consideration. I am sure there are still revisions that could be made re: obscure layouts but I'll leave notes on that to those who are more knowledgeable than I am.
Thanks for being receptive to feedback, it's going to make this set shine for a really solid R2 (I hope!)
Post by: A.Belousov on Thu, 17 June 2021, 23:56:34
Post by: stevenT on Fri, 18 June 2021, 00:33:04
Guys please can someone explain me in which cases i will need R5 kit?
from my humble knowledge, the difference of round of keycaps is height(find cherry profile picture for detail) so if you don't need the specific height of R5, just skip it
(https://i.imgur.com/kG3UnKt.jpg)
Picture from GMK WoB 40s, Colevrak+, R0/R5
(full cherry profile; currently most kits have two sets of R1 and R4 instead of R0 and R5)
maybe I missed it but will there be artisan collab for this set? RAMA maybe..
Post by: rowie on Fri, 18 June 2021, 00:52:01
Post by: senbae on Fri, 18 June 2021, 02:29:11
Post by: JQ27 on Fri, 18 June 2021, 04:18:39
Post by: Fraaaan on Fri, 18 June 2021, 05:57:23
Post by: Jakob on Fri, 18 June 2021, 07:11:29
Post by: ZavaZ86 on Fri, 18 June 2021, 07:44:47
Post by: bukowski on Fri, 18 June 2021, 07:54:40
Post by: hali on Fri, 18 June 2021, 08:39:34
I have a couple things to recommend here:
- Replace accent arrows with accent ISO Enter
- Move B and 2.25u shift to Base to effectively make the Spacebars kit blanks instead of having a doubleshot key and because nobody wants to spend money for Extension for a shift key
- Remove 2u shift from Extension; the GK64 and K66 are <$100 kits and the users probably shouldn't spend $140 on keycaps for them
- Remove extra nav keys from Extension; nobody wants to buy Extension for those alone
- Norde could do without all tertiary sublegends for consistency and instead offer more compatibility, see Retro Runic (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=112746.0)
- Consider 3 key support because a slightly more expensive base is far better than having to drag a 40s kit to MOQ
Again, I'm really appreciative of the new kitting and listening to feedback.
Post by: Scoobsheister on Fri, 18 June 2021, 12:59:05
Post by: XiXora on Fri, 18 June 2021, 13:50:34
From extension to intl to gone :'(
Accent ISO being included somewhere is ok but I wouldn't get it if theres no UK ISO in that kit.
2x 1.5U Supers/1u alt in R5 would be nice but I'll be ok with using the ones in extension kit.
Post by: Daniel on Sat, 19 June 2021, 01:16:02
Example: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=113197.0
Cheers
Post by: SafeAtShore on Sat, 19 June 2021, 09:31:33
I'd still merge extension with base; pricing should still be favorable with high MOQ.
Also, please add back the white mini bars to space bar kit.
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 19 June 2021, 11:15:44
Post by: jpg2401 on Sat, 19 June 2021, 14:05:58
Post by: Mysteric on Sun, 20 June 2021, 14:36:00
Post by: busytimmy on Sun, 20 June 2021, 22:13:54
Post by: rath_k on Sun, 20 June 2021, 23:04:58
Post by: Jr.Mars on Mon, 21 June 2021, 01:45:01
Post by: hottrout on Mon, 21 June 2021, 03:34:01
That just does not make any sense, if you are going to offer an international kit then at the very least it should cover Norde/UK. Am I missing something?
p.s. I love the extension kit and the set in total but without any UK ISO in any form I might have to bow out.
Post by: Entity. on Mon, 21 June 2021, 05:57:01
Post by: doggo1dance on Tue, 22 June 2021, 00:04:41
Post by: roguesystem087 on Tue, 22 June 2021, 01:40:45
easier to see what's really needed and what's not.
Post by: Lizcuits on Tue, 22 June 2021, 17:28:29
Post by: XiXora on Tue, 22 June 2021, 18:37:56
I think the new kitting is a massive improvement but IMO the extensions kit is a bit of a waste and ought to be merged with 40s or the base kit, with the windowed keys being moved to accents or novelties. It's such a small kit with a lot of overlap on other layouts that it doesn't make much sense as is.I've already lost my UK ISO. I'm going to end up losing my 1.5u Supers too at this rate :(
I've seen UK ISO in the extension kit before (additions in Janglad kitting) but the ISO accent key would have to move to base in that case.
I've also seen keys like F13 and mod pipe in the extension kit too.
Honestly, it depends on if you want a cheaper compact base kit or a full-featured bit more expensive one… I assume it also depends on MOQ.
Who would have thought kitting would be so much "fun"! I wish there was a standard kitting introduced but I think it simply isn't possible with the way GMK sets out MOQ for kits that upsets 10% of users somewhere.
Post by: wholypantalones on Tue, 22 June 2021, 21:06:53
Post by: bukowski on Wed, 23 June 2021, 03:16:36
- Norde could do without all tertiary sublegends for consistency and instead offer more compatibility, see Retro Runic (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=112746.0)
Nice one, yes! :thumb:
Post by: NoPunIn10Did on Wed, 23 June 2021, 07:26:47
You have two broad options here:
1) Switch from Terminal ISO to UK ISO in base.
2) Add the necessary keys for UK back to the international kit.
Personally I think #1 makes the most sense. It will require a net increase of 4 alpha keys in base (2 removed, 6 added). I’d be happy to walk through the other adjustments needed, whichever path you choose.
Post by: actress on Wed, 23 June 2021, 07:41:15
- Norde could do without all tertiary sublegends for consistency and instead offer more compatibility, see Retro Runic (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=112746.0)
I disagree. I like the current NorDe with the sublegends.
Post by: dudewth on Wed, 23 June 2021, 10:35:03
Post by: Fweedum on Thu, 24 June 2021, 01:33:46
Post by: bukowski on Fri, 25 June 2021, 03:22:14
But the current NorDe is missing the tertiary "2" on the "2"-cap. I dont want 3 with tertiary 3 and 2 without tertiary 2. Keep the sublegends but make it consistent.
- Norde could do without all tertiary sublegends for consistency and instead offer more compatibility, see Retro Runic (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=112746.0)
I disagree. I like the current NorDe with the sublegends.
Edit: nvmd has been fixed
Post by: nvh2092 on Fri, 25 June 2021, 03:44:31
About the novelties, I think the community has seen a lot of big and flashy novelty kits from other sets so they want something similar here, this is also a R2 so it's understandable.
Post by: Lizcuits on Sun, 27 June 2021, 15:38:48
Post by: wirex on Sun, 27 June 2021, 16:00:12
wow you actually changed the hangul base kit change back to something alot of us didnt actually want lmao, yeah im out
Yeah same, but I guess if more people wanted hangul to be a child kit then it makes more sense for OP to do that. I'm out too unfortunately, good luck with sale though!
Post by: Lufenia on Sun, 27 June 2021, 23:08:40
Post by: hali on Mon, 28 June 2021, 09:52:54
Post by: XiXora on Mon, 28 June 2021, 11:07:32
I will bookmark this thread as a prime example as to why it's impossible to make everyone happy no matter how many changes were done on the kitting of the set.IKR. With the latest changes I'm pretty happy again (as intl kit has been expanded).
I think I was the only one happy with the original kitting for the IC perhaps.
The extension kit for GMK sets generally always makes me happy as I get unix bottom row. Perhaps this will be the norm for base kits to be low-ish priced for GMK.
Post by: actress on Mon, 28 June 2021, 18:35:09
In for base kit + international and maybe hangul.
GL!
Post by: hali on Mon, 28 June 2021, 20:16:22
Post by: heyimpanda on Mon, 28 June 2021, 21:50:09
Post by: noodleman on Mon, 28 June 2021, 23:25:31
Post by: alpaone on Tue, 29 June 2021, 09:44:07
I'm in for base, aesthetic and spacebar kit.
Post by: jpg2401 on Tue, 29 June 2021, 20:58:59
Post by: TheBlackHammer on Wed, 30 June 2021, 16:53:20
Post by: SafeAtShore on Thu, 01 July 2021, 09:07:37
Although the extension kit is here to stay (blegh), I think spinning it to include icon mods was a good move; a fair number of people were vocal about wanting icon-only. I personally don't care much for it, but it was a good compromise.
Thanks for taking feedback into consideration, and looking forward to the GB.
Post by: hali on Thu, 01 July 2021, 20:16:40
Post by: honoka on Fri, 02 July 2021, 01:13:14
Post by: bow3i on Fri, 02 July 2021, 12:36:20
Post by: nvh2092 on Fri, 02 July 2021, 14:23:11
Kinda meh prices for what is really bad kitting. This could've been good with a Hangul base kit to begin with.The base price is actually lower than most current base kit with the same kitting. I think you're just not happy because of no hangul base.
Post by: dstaar on Fri, 02 July 2021, 15:58:29
there seems to be 4 kinds of base kit:
BASE KIT, STANDARD BASE, (another)BASE KIT, HANGUL BASE
and 2 kinds Spacebars kit:
both named SPACEBAR KIT, but one with a 1.25u and one without
will these all be active options? which one(s) will be actually in the GB?
sorry if it's repeated question, but if it's not, someone pls enlighten me, thanks.
Post by: heyimpanda on Fri, 02 July 2021, 16:17:38
I am very confused with the kitting pictures :(
there seems to be 4 kinds of base kit:
BASE KIT, STANDARD BASE, (another)BASE KIT, HANGUL BASE
and 2 kinds Spacebars kit:
both named SPACEBAR KIT, but one with a 1.25u and one without
will these all be active options? which one(s) will be actually in the GB?
sorry if it's repeated question, but if it's not, someone pls enlighten me, thanks.
You're looking at the historical kitting. What's shown right now (not under "More") is what the finalized kitting is.
Post by: ZongZiWang on Fri, 02 July 2021, 16:31:10
I am very confused with the kitting pictures :(
there seems to be 4 kinds of base kit:
BASE KIT, STANDARD BASE, (another)BASE KIT, HANGUL BASE
and 2 kinds Spacebars kit:
both named SPACEBAR KIT, but one with a 1.25u and one without
will these all be active options? which one(s) will be actually in the GB?
sorry if it's repeated question, but if it's not, someone pls enlighten me, thanks.
I guess you are using mobile app Tapatalk? The format on the app is not same as viewing in the website on desktop, and I agree it's confusing on mobile app.
Post by: dstaar on Fri, 02 July 2021, 16:36:32
You're looking at the historical kitting. What's shown right now (not under "More") is what the finalized kitting is.
I guess you are using mobile app Tapatalk? The format on the app is not same as viewing in the website on desktop, and I agree it's confusing on mobile app.
Oh that's the damn trick, I got it, thank you both!
Post by: Ravenoxidal on Sun, 04 July 2021, 03:44:43
Post by: Hanabi on Sun, 04 July 2021, 03:58:29
Post by: hottrout on Wed, 07 July 2021, 05:24:08
Post by: kwiizu on Tue, 20 July 2021, 02:57:30
DO you guys have discord channel? can't find it anywhere
Post by: mayne069 on Fri, 27 August 2021, 16:23:33
Is it because of the Modern Kit? Should have included Dixie Arrows there and OG Arrows in the regular base along the OG Mods.