[IC] GMK CYL ZX | Doubleshot Sublegends!

[Woovie]

I'm absolutely fine buying bars kit for my Alice, great work on the updates, much more tempting of a set now. 

[aicyborg]

THANK YOU for adding UK keys (also thank you for ignoring the smelly post running counter-interference to it).

I am definitely in now that UK has been added.

[JQ27]

And while the ZX Spectrum line didn't have UK legends like this on them, we are sympathetic to the argument that with a set that takes inspiration from a British electronics company has some specific kinship with UK legends.

Based. I'm in.

[tactilesbad]

And while the ZX Spectrum line didn't have UK legends like this on them, we are sympathetic to the argument that with a set that takes inspiration from a British electronics company has some specific kinship with UK legends

if they were never there, it makes no sense. just admit you're arbitrarily forcing 6 regional keys without physical coverage reasons instead of passing it off as a tribute to something that didn't even exist lmao
also offering 4key 40 support in base while relegating shorter bars to a separate kit is pretty disingenuous

[Beesley]

And while the ZX Spectrum line didn't have UK legends like this on them, we are sympathetic to the argument that with a set that takes inspiration from a British electronics company has some specific kinship with UK legends

if they were never there, it makes no sense. just admit you're arbitrarily forcing 6 regional keys without physical coverage reasons instead of passing it off as a tribute to something that didn't even exist lmao
also offering 4key 40 support in base while relegating shorter bars to a separate kit is pretty disingenuous

We are still working on the kitting trying to find a way to keep most people happy, but end of the day someone people are not going to be happy with the kitting. We will update once we have settled on the best options, but until then letting us know through the IC form lets us keep track of these requests.

[whysoda]

This is unrelated to the conversation at hand, but I really love the colors selected for the stripes! It's such a fun burst of color

[cthalupa]

And while the ZX Spectrum line didn't have UK legends like this on them, we are sympathetic to the argument that with a set that takes inspiration from a British electronics company has some specific kinship with UK legends

if they were never there, it makes no sense. just admit you're arbitrarily forcing 6 regional keys without physical coverage reasons instead of passing it off as a tribute to something that didn't even exist lmao
also offering 4key 40 support in base while relegating shorter bars to a separate kit is pretty disingenuous

You left out perhaps the most important part of the post you quoted: "We've had significantly more IC/etc. responses asking for UK support than alice support at all, even before we made the bars kit."

To make it completely unambiguous: The primary reason we did this because there was enough IC demand. We're also sympathetic to the argument about Sinclair Research being a British company, but it is a secondary reason.

As for 4-key 40s support, again, people asked for it in the IC. Neither Beesley or I are 40s users so we're going off what people ask for here, because they know their keyboards better than either of us do. My understanding is there are several varieties of 40s layouts that can make use of 6.25U spacebars, and I have seen people using the the larger shifts as their spacebars as well (though that would admittedly be a bit weird here with the R4/R5 split.) We have a lot of IC responses asking for 4-key 40s, to the point where it tipped the balance on demand vs. cost while also accounting for the fact extended 40s kits struggle to meet MOQ and a separate 4-key kit would not be economically feasible because of how pricing works and likely end up in the same boat. If meeting one of the most common requests in our IC form is disingenuous, I'm not sure what to say.

I don't want this to get contentious, but misquoting us and picking fights isn't going to get kitting changed - we're not having a debate where the winner, on style or substance, gets their way. We have to make reasoned decisions based on customer demand, price, MOQ concerns, etc. A lot of designer's lives would involve a lot less stress if it was possible to make everyone happy, but it isn't. We're doing what we can to the best of our ability to make the most people happy. Unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing in our power we can do to make everyone happy.

[_rubik]

I really am a sucker for retro inspiration. Keeping an on this one

[aicyborg]

And while the ZX Spectrum line didn't have UK legends like this on them, we are sympathetic to the argument that with a set that takes inspiration from a British electronics company has some specific kinship with UK legends

if they were never there, it makes no sense. just admit you're arbitrarily forcing 6 regional keys without physical coverage reasons instead of passing it off as a tribute to something that didn't even exist lmao
also offering 4key 40 support in base while relegating shorter bars to a separate kit is pretty disingenuous

You left out perhaps the most important part of the post you quoted: "We've had significantly more IC/etc. responses asking for UK support than alice support at all, even before we made the bars kit."

To make it completely unambiguous: The primary reason we did this because there was enough IC demand. We're also sympathetic to the argument about Sinclair Research being a British company, but it is a secondary reason.

As for 4-key 40s support, again, people asked for it in the IC. Neither Beesley or I are 40s users so we're going off what people ask for here, because they know their keyboards better than either of us do. My understanding is there are several varieties of 40s layouts that can make use of 6.25U spacebars, and I have seen people using the the larger shifts as their spacebars as well (though that would admittedly be a bit weird here with the R4/R5 split.) We have a lot of IC responses asking for 4-key 40s, to the point where it tipped the balance on demand vs. cost while also accounting for the fact extended 40s kits struggle to meet MOQ and a separate 4-key kit would not be economically feasible because of how pricing works and likely end up in the same boat. If meeting one of the most common requests in our IC form is disingenuous, I'm not sure what to say.

I don't want this to get contentious, but misquoting us and picking fights isn't going to get kitting changed - we're not having a debate where the winner, on style or substance, gets their way. We have to make reasoned decisions based on customer demand, price, MOQ concerns, etc. A lot of designer's lives would involve a lot less stress if it was possible to make everyone happy, but it isn't. We're doing what we can to the best of our ability to make the most people happy. Unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing in our power we can do to make everyone happy.

You're a brave person for tackling that seriously.

The person you replied to represents a subset of users whom have decided their hill to die on is that literally any international support is bad if it doesn't also support every other region (I think; or something else equally questionable). You can check their posting history, a proportion of it is to not provide feedback on ICs but instead brow-beat and demean others requesting regional layout coverage in kits. It's unhelpful at best and trolling at worst. To counter it, all I can do is try to drum up interest from others whom I know that use ISO-UK and help you get positive feeedback to... uh, I guess, "counter-counter" it.

I hope that you are able to keep UK in base. Personally I'm excited for this. Thank you for fighting my corner personally.

[tactilesbad]

You're a brave person for tackling that seriously.

oof. bold of someone whose only contribution to the forum is being a "UK ISO in base pls" text bot

[JQ27]

You're a brave person for tackling that seriously.

oof. bold of someone whose only contribution to the forum is being a "UK ISO in base pls" text bot

If you don't ask, you never get.

Where's the harm in asking?

[tactilesbad]

If you don't ask, you never get.

Where's the harm in asking?

no harm in asking, this is why I very much did so, suggesting to drop the UK keys in favor of alice bars, I think it's a legitimate point to be made?
it's kinda double sided labeling that as "trolling" while an identical, but opposite, request is welcomed and encouraged.

thanks to the designers for approaching the matter with seriousness though, even if we disagree.

[JQ27]

If you don't ask, you never get.

Where's the harm in asking?

no harm in asking, this is why I very much did so, suggesting to drop the UK keys in favor of alice bars, I think it's a legitimate point to be made?
it's kinda double sided labeling that as "trolling" while an identical, but opposite, request is welcomed and encouraged.

thanks to the designers for approaching the matter with seriousness though, even if we disagree.

Time to make GMK Regal base kit the norm

[Nevrest]

If you don't ask, you never get.

Where's the harm in asking?

no harm in asking, this is why I very much did so, suggesting to drop the UK keys in favor of alice bars, I think it's a legitimate point to be made?
it's kinda double sided labeling that as "trolling" while an identical, but opposite, request is welcomed and encouraged.

thanks to the designers for approaching the matter with seriousness though, even if we disagree.

Time to make GMK Regal base kit the norm

I think the little extras, like ISO support, spacebars for alice and 40's/split BS are nice to add in with basekits.
Mainly because you will get more people interested that way, and I think you will attract more people than you'd discourage by adding it.
Because of that, if I was running a set I'd add those things, even if it might add $5-10 on the base set.

[tactilesbad]

If you don't ask, you never get.

Where's the harm in asking?

no harm in asking, this is why I very much did so, suggesting to drop the UK keys in favor of alice bars, I think it's a legitimate point to be made?
it's kinda double sided labeling that as "trolling" while an identical, but opposite, request is welcomed and encouraged.

thanks to the designers for approaching the matter with seriousness though, even if we disagree.

Time to make GMK Regal base kit the norm

unironically. makes no sense to me to bend over backwards to scrape $10 off a basekit price then relegating widely used keys to $30-ish child kits.
but then again, even regal has 6 extra keys that could be easily sacrificed  /s

[JQ27]

If you don't ask, you never get.

Where's the harm in asking?

no harm in asking, this is why I very much did so, suggesting to drop the UK keys in favor of alice bars, I think it's a legitimate point to be made?
it's kinda double sided labeling that as "trolling" while an identical, but opposite, request is welcomed and encouraged.

thanks to the designers for approaching the matter with seriousness though, even if we disagree.

Time to make GMK Regal base kit the norm

unironically. makes no sense to me to bend over backwards to scrape $10 off a basekit price then relegating widely used keys to $30-ish child kits.
but then again, even regal has 6 extra keys that could be easily sacrificed  /s

This is where I feel by making a child kit actually worth getting. Add in accent spacebars, throw in windowed keys etc etc. Make it more than 'just' a kit with spacebars and make it worth the cost.

Also, I mainly just point the finger at GMK for the most part with how their MoQ/Kitting requirements are. In an ideal world everyone could get the support they want. No one should have to compromise on getting what they want. Other manu's can offer much more affordable ways of doing it. What's stopping GMK?

[aicyborg]

You're a brave person for tackling that seriously.

oof. bold of someone whose only contribution to the forum is being a "UK ISO in base pls" text bot

Please do explain how "I am interested in purchasing this keycap set if UK ISO is in base" isn't an expression of my interest. I buy sets with it, don't buy sets without it (for example, was really interested in GMK Cubed3 but that chose to not have any international layout support at all so I skipped buying it). Therefore it's what I want to see in this.

It would be one thing if your feedback stopped after "I am more interested if UK support is dropped," but I called your behaviour trolling on the basis that you encourage sets not to even consider NorDeUK, an optional kit which you wouldn't have to buy - here are, two examples. This is what makes me think your participation is less than genuine.

[Beesley]

Updated Kitting:

Added Alice support to basekit
Added Accent arrows & windowed keys to extension Kit
Added sublegends to NumPad

[tactilesbad]

thanks for listening

[Nevrest]

Updated Kitting:

Added Alice support to basekit
Added Accent arrows & windowed keys to extension Kit
Added sublegends to NumPad

This makes me go from not interested to very likely to buy it. Thanks for taking some of the feedback to heart and updating the kitting.

[mr_foggy]

Updated Kitting:

Added Alice support to basekit
Added Accent arrows & windowed keys to extension Kit
Added sublegends to NumPad

Definitely considering now

[Araset]

No chance of getting 1u Enter in base? It would look better on some 40s layouts.

[cthalupa]

No chance of getting 1u Enter in base? It would look better on some 40s layouts.

Unfortunately not super likely. We're already really pouring over the base kit to make a couple of cuts to try and bring price down and balance the keys we've added. The 00 might not be long for this world, for example. (If there are hordes of people that need it for some reason, now's your chance to speak up)

[Neely_12]

Please add front print on Print and Pause. Also, I think that the two-line Page, Page, etc would fit the theme a little more. Like this set a lot
                                                                                                        Up     Down

[bat0u]

Cool!

However, something that bothers me is the rainbow on the bottom right of the kit renders, is on a 45deg angle, and is not parallel to the orientation of the cap gradient. should be more slanted like ///. Esp when the inspiration board has those colors on more of an angle as well! Super important detail, I know. lmao

[Kaptain Mike]

This is looking good. Glad you are going with GMK 

[Beesley]

Update

We are working with GMK to make the sublegends doubleshot, hopefully this is something we can achieve. If this does happen it means the No sublegends child kit would not be available.

[cthalupa]

GMK is still assessing the production file for mold viability, though we believe we have been able to meet the requirements.

In the mean time, they are still producing UV print samples just in case.

[Beesley]

Added MVKB & Salvun artisan!

[cthalupa]

GMK has confirmed the top sublegends can be doubleshot, and we will be moving forward with that! Front print legends will still be UV print.

As such, we will *not* be offering the additional alphas kit, since the primary reason was people being concerned about uv print durability.

[zlobin356]

Looks very good! I'd grab myself one. GLWIC!!!!