transph0bic documentary.

[tp4tissue]

Just watched the Matt Wa1sh documentary.

Obviously they've framed it heavily from their chosen perspective, and it's clearly politically charged/motivated.


It's readily agreeable that Gender is however the individual wants to define it given the surplus of time-wealth and relatively innocuous nature of the label change.


But, the concerns over the medical transitioning aspect is somewhat valid, as many people may not be at the right age or intellectual development to decide on the risk of invasive / powerful chemical interventions.

In general, drug companies are all too happy to take people's money, and pander the side-effects of their wares.


Should we at least have age requirements on the chemical stuff for safety reasons?

What're the community thoughts on the interventions?

[1391401]

medical procedures should remain between a patient and their doctor and conservatives need to stop obsessing over what genitals people have in their pants

[Leslieann]

Stop.
You're asking disingenuous "questions" either on purpose or accidental because of "talking points" and you're not actually helping anyone. You're doing exactly what this film was meant to do, creating controversy where there shouldn't be any.

There are requirements, including age requirements.
The "standards of care" (or most of them anyhow) have been in place for DECADES and easily researched, the outcomes are well documented, the major (credible) medical organizations are all in agreement, it's not a question nor is there any need for discussion. Stop playing wannabe doctor and let doctors, experts, parents and kids decide their care plan... It doesn't effect you, you have no dog in this hunt and you have no understanding of it, stay the hell out of it. If you want to meddle in other people's care you should expect others to meddle in your care. You might wanna keep that in mind because today it may be how your neighbors kid gets care but tomorrow it could be them deciding how you or your kid are treated. Or not treated...


For the record,
About 60 kids got bottom surgery last year. 60. And you can bet every single one of them was at extremely high risk of suicide, most likely even tried numerous times (trans suicide is insanely high). Surgery is a last ditch effort, not a first response (even for adult trans people). By contrast thousands of kids got top surgery, 99% or more of which was teen girls getting bigger boobs. So why is it perfectly okay for for a 15 year old girl to get DD boobs or even get pregnant without even speaking to a doc, both have far more life impact than merely delaying puberty so you have time to decide and get a better outcome.

Medical care should be between you and your doc, not crowd sourced or decided by someone who possibly wants you dead. That's not hyperbole, many of these rules/laws are meant to create a trans genocide (looking at you Florida) and once it's done they're coming for gays and lesbians and it won't stop there. The bill waiting for the Gov of Florida to sign allows docs to decide who they want to treat and not treat. It also makes it so ALL trans care (even for adults) has to go through the governors office for approval (which will never happen). This is an emergency order so it goes into effect as soon as it's signed and there is no grandfathering for those already being treated or even already transitioned. Basically it outlaws all transgender care in Florida and it will get people killed. Oh, it also makes it illegal to leave the state for care and they can take your kid if they think you plan to do so.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, tough sh*t.
Frankly, I'd have phrased this entire thing A LOT more harsh if I didn't worry about getting banned for it. It's not an honest discussion, nor is it proper. I don't blame you TP, you were swindled, but screw these guys and what they're trying to do.

[tp4tissue]

Cursory scan of the internet, it seems a relatively small quantity of youth go through the treatments. ~20,000 all inclusive.

That's about half the number of gun deaths, so in the grand scheme, at least top down, it seems minimally dangerous.

LLann, are we sure about these chemicals though ?

Regular medicine, legally/properly prescribed, already kills quite alot of people per year. Bout, 100-150 thousand deaths a year.


To clarify, Tp4's distrust is with capitalist medicine in general, not of the movement, it stands to reason trans individuals have enough necessity and agency to modify themselves.

[Leslieann]

You're entirely focused on the wrong end of the problem.

Treatment doesn't always equal surgery or even hormones and there's not enough trans people for big pharma to get involved.
All of it is off-label use often making it difficult to find a doc (and shrink) willing to actually work with them (that alone is an expensive gauntlet) however the effects of the meds are well known because they're used to treat other hormonal issues such as birth control, birth defects, hair loss, menopause and testicular cancer. Hormone levels are regularly tested and monitored if they're prescribed and once puberty (or second puberty) is complete they're dropped to a lower dose for safety and while the hormones could cause cancer the meds could never kill them faster than the suicide (over 40%) and murder rates (10%) they already face. Don't forget the surgical risks, increased risk of rape, homelessness, and inability to even afford treatment in the first place. With those odds do you really think a slight increased risk of cancer later in life scares them?

As for the numbers, the numbers are what they are.
Why are there so many all of a sudden? Because we (mostly) stopped actively hunting and killing them. Forget big pharma, the biggest threat these people face are people like Desantis, Walsh, Carlson and bigots in general and it's been that way all throughout history.

[pixelpusher]

Agreed.  You're focusing on the wrong questions altogether.  Watch Shiny Happy People documentary on Prime Video.  Learn about the ****ing whack-job fanatics that have put our country where it is.  I actually get physically ill when I watch that show.  I cannot believe that these people have grown in such numbers while in hiding, all with the benefit of never paying taxes. I was so confused when Trump won the election.  I was even more confused when Roe v Wade was overturned.  Now I completely understand.

[fohat.digs]

Moral panics are the most convenient distractions.

The "puppet masters" are pretty desperate to divert attention away from reality at this date in time.

There is (finally?) no denying global warming, overpopulation, pollution, and the real horrors of voter supression and income inequality.

There is an old lawyers' saying: "If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have nothing - then act crazy - because nobody wants to mess with a crazy person."

[tp4tissue]

Ontop of unlimited military spending.

[pixelpusher]

Moral panics are the most convenient distractions.

The "puppet masters" are pretty desperate to divert attention away from reality at this date in time.

There is (finally?) no denying global warming, overpopulation, pollution, and the real horrors of voter supression and income inequality.

There is an old lawyers' saying: "If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have nothing - then act crazy - because nobody wants to mess with a crazy person."

The IBPL teach the millions of Americans who attend their conventions that the overpopulation is a myth.  On the documentary I mentioned (Shiny Happy People) You can see Jim Bob Duggar say that one could fit the entire world population into the city of Jacksonville, Florida, and that we actually need to be having more children.  These guys are ****ing nuts.

[tp4tissue]

The IBPL teach the millions of Americans who attend their conventions that the overpopulation is a myth.  On the documentary I mentioned (Shiny Happy People) You can see Jim Bob Duggar say that one could fit the entire world population into the city of Jacksonville, Florida, and that we actually need to be having more children.  These guys are ****ing nuts.

Overpopulation is a myth, but not "in the way they teach it".

What we have is an over population of ANIMALS due to ANIMAL AGRICULTURE.

We kill 80 billion animals a year, when biologically humans are squarely herbivores (starchivores).

Growing animal feed is the primary contributor to climate disaster due to the Opportunity cost of land use.

[Timbersawdust]

As others have said, culture wars are a distraction from reality from things that actually matter: healthcare, global warming, adequate pay, social security, etc. Entertaining any argument from any anti-trans commentators is dangerous. Their logic is always flawed.

[Leslieann]

What we have is an over population of ANIMALS due to ANIMAL AGRICULTURE.

Once again, you're caught in a culture war to provide distraction.

We grew 30-40% more than we needed then simply destroyed it to keep prices up, that's an easy 30-40% reduction without anyone lifting a finger.

Put private planes on that chart.... 
We hit a record high for personal private jets last year, Taylor Swift's jet last year alone put out the equivalent co2 of nearly 600 people, just the jet, never mind anything else she did and if you think we have a problem now, just wait till they start doing space tourism on the regular.


The average person isn't the problem, even as a whole.
You won't make any difference at all and anything you do conserve they're going to spend.

[kurplop]

Moral panics are the most convenient distractions.

The "puppet masters" are pretty desperate to divert attention away from reality at this date in time.

There is (finally?) no denying global warming, overpopulation, pollution, and the real horrors of voter supression and income inequality.

There is an old lawyers' saying: "If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have nothing - then act crazy - because nobody wants to mess with a crazy person."

The IBPL teach the millions of Americans who attend their conventions that the overpopulation is a myth.  On the documentary I mentioned (Shiny Happy People) You can see Jim Bob Duggar say that one could fit the entire world population into the city of Jacksonville, Florida, and that we actually need to be having more children.  These guys are ****ing nuts.

SHP was a very interesting documentary and while I wouldn’t try to defend either the IBPL or Mr. Duggar, his statement about fitting the world population into Jacksonville Florida is factually correct. With an area of 874 sq. miles, a population of 8 billion would each have over 3 square feet. Granted, not a lot of elbow room but mathematically accurate.

[pixelpusher]

True, true.  It's kinda the opposite version of those facts like how many miles long your veins and arteries would be if you stretched them out.  Or how everyone holding hands could stretch around the equator.  It's a completely irrelevant fact.  And they use it as part of their argument to encourage the crazies to have more God Fearing, Husband Obeying children.

[fohat.digs]

everyone holding hands could stretch around the equator.

Just the feet of all the people in the world would stretch around the equator 15-20 times over, or go to the moon and back 3 times.

Looking at it that way, it is astonishing that we have not wrecked the planet a lot more than we already have. But the fact is that it is happening suddenly and explosively, the population of Earth has more than tripled in my lifetime. The absurdity of arguing that this is a good thing is beyond comprehension.

[kurplop]

everyone holding hands could stretch around the equator.

Just the feet of all the people in the world would stretch around the equator 15-20 times over, or go to the moon and back 3 times.

Looking at it that way, it is astonishing that we have not wrecked the planet a lot more than we already have. But the fact is that it is happening suddenly and explosively, the population of Earth has more than tripled in my lifetime. The absurdity of arguing that this is a good thing is beyond comprehension.

Or, if you thought you and your offspring could be an asset to the wellbeing of the planet you may want to have more children to better the world. Some, like Elon Musk, have posited that more people could lead to discoveries that would solve the problems that a greater population would cause. Thomas Malthus was certainly proven wrong, wasn’t he?

[pixelpusher]

I can't even fathom the egotism of this mentality.  But, that's exactly it.  The League of Joshua is the plan to raise as many fundamentalist Christians as possible and funding them with that good old tax exempt money into the highest positions of every branch of government and authority.  (note that the Duggars are a particularly strange brew who follow not just the teaching of Christ, but of a worldly man named Gothard who supposedly speaks to God... and sexually abuses young blond girls.).

These new GQP people you see.  The shell of a person who looks like some AI created conservative like Josh Hawley.  That's them!  There's already a Supreme Court justice with ties to the IBLP, Amy Coney Barrett.

[kurplop]

Better than thinking you or your offspring are a blight to society.

[CaesarAZealad]

God I hate both camps of this argument.
You've got one side telling you that having kids is a horrible thing and we're all already gonna die because we're overpopulated, and then you got the other side saying that there's no problem with overpopulation because reasons and you're just worrying too much.
Oh and then you've got the guy above me talking about Elon Musk of all people lol. I'd rather grate off my fingernails than hear about how "Uhhhm ackchully *Insert Billionaire* says you're wrong, and he has money so therefore you're incorrect." 2016 was 7 years ago man, we've all grown out of cringe compilations and Elon Musk worship.

[fohat.digs]

Everybody knows that if some is good, then a whole lot more is obviously a whole lot better.

[TerryMathews]

medical procedures should remain between a patient and their doctor and conservatives need to stop obsessing over what genitals people have in their pants

This. If you really feel this is an issue, the right play is to give doctors more iron-clad protections to refuse treatments they feel are unwise at a given age or development level (tort protection) and/or introduce stiffer penalties if a doctor is found to have acted in a manner not in line with their patient's best interests as determined by a medical board of qualified doctors in a related field and not a group of political hacks.

What we have done is given Republicans veto power in your doctor's office. I don't know about you all, but I don't feel that Jim Jordan is qualified to dispense OTC Children's Tylenol, let alone second-guess my doctor that I trust and who went to school to do the job that I'm paying him/her very well to do.