How do you decide when it's time to build a new PC vs incrementally upgrading?

[Maledicted]

... Not sure why anybody needs something that powerful in that sort of form factor ...

Old school LAN party server? )

If it requires a server, is it an old school LAN party? 

Makes me think more of just routers and/or switches.

[suicidal_orange]

... Not sure why anybody needs something that powerful in that sort of form factor ...

Old school LAN party server? )

If it requires a server, is it an old school LAN party? 

Makes me think more of just routers and/or switches.

I think LAN parties as I knew them ('old school') were replaced years ago by fast internet connections and headsets allowing realtime communication worldwide but yes, back in the day you had to have dedicated game server as computers were too slow plus a network switch and wires.  As specs improved the need for a server went away leaving just the switch and wires so I guess you're a bit younger than me

[Maledicted]

... Not sure why anybody needs something that powerful in that sort of form factor ...

Old school LAN party server? )

If it requires a server, is it an old school LAN party? 

Makes me think more of just routers and/or switches.

I think LAN parties as I knew them ('old school') were replaced years ago by fast internet connections and headsets allowing realtime communication worldwide but yes, back in the day you had to have dedicated game server as computers were too slow plus a network switch and wires.  As specs improved the need for a server went away leaving just the switch and wires so I guess you're a bit younger than me

I may be. Are we talking 10/100 "fast"? What old games required local servers for a LAN connection? Are we talking 1980s? Earlier?

[suicidal_orange]

I may be. Are we talking 10/100 "fast"? What old games required local servers for a LAN connection? Are we talking 1980s? Earlier?

Haha!  I think in the 80s they were writing pong and losing it on every reboot...

Struggling to work out when but definitely remember the original Counter Strike had a standalone server, on searching it seems CS:GO did too and that was only 2015 so maybe somewhere kids are still getting some exercise carrying their systems around.

[Leslieann]

hey could do a small perpendicular breakout board just like the extra vrms.

With the amount of heat TR puts out, the size of an air cooler will take up pretty much entire mobo. Many small ITS systems already require low profile ram to clear the heat sinks. If you go water, you still need a place to squeeze the hoses out and all this vertical stuff gets in the way.

It's already an issue just routing wiring in many of these cases without disturbing airflow. Also keep in mind, this is a problem with 95watt cpus, I can't even imagine trying to cool a 270 watt Threadripper in my Ncase.  If you need a larger case just for the cooling, why saddle it with a compromised motherboard.


If you want to see what you are facing here's my adventure with a "95 watt" 8700k in an Ncase.

More

Here is how tight an Ncase M1 with Noctua C14S fits, however you need to replace the 140mm fan with a 120 to even get this. While I didn't use a Noctua fan when I tried this I was uncomfortable with system temps.



Pic by M1AF on Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/ahn4e8/ncase_m1_c14s_stock_psu_mounting_it_fits/

You can turn the psu sideways,  but then you have this (most also mount dual 120 or 140s under the GPU and a 90mm at the back of the case, filling the case entirely).


Shot from the top


Pics from a user named Zoob, but closely match what my system looked like inside before I changed to a Noctua U9S.
https://hardwarecanucks.com/forum/threads/ncase-m1-v1.79119/


The C14S ran fine when the PSU was sideways the problem is the PSU was sucking massive amounts of hot air. Under modest loads the Silverstone 450 watt PSU was running at or above recommended temps, and under full load, the heat and noise was terrible. Switching to a 650 Corsair helped, but even then I was pushing max temps while gaming.  I switched to a U9S, which had less cooling capability, added an extra fan, and while it let the cpu heat up a little more under load the rest of the system, particularly the PSU, were kept cooler.

Understand, this is one of only about 3 coolers capable of handling an 8700k or 9900k in such a small box and those are 90-145 watt CPUs, Threadripper can reach 270 watts. Basically once you pass about 200 watts between CPU and GPU things get really complicated in terms of cooling. And if you think these cases are stuffed, the Ncase isn't even considered all that small these days.

Edit, missed a pic

[Leslieann]

I think LAN parties as I knew them ('old school') were replaced years ago by fast internet connections

Dreamhack is still a thing.
https://dreamhack.com/

[tp4tissue]

Problem with lanparty these days is, I've outgrown most games, nostalgia from time to time, but they're hard to dive into for long.

Ya build the bunker, send dudez to the other base,  meanwhile australia is burning down afk, and the back of your mind is thinking, TP4, Australia is burning, you're wasting humanity's resources playing vidya. 

[noisyturtle]

Deadmau5 has a sick ass LAN party room with a dedicated T1 internet connection.

[Leslieann]

Deadmau5 has a sick ass LAN party room with a dedicated T1 internet connection.

These days a common cable connection is waaay faster than a T1 (a T1 is 1.54Mbit/s up/down).

The only benefit a dedicated T1 has is you can legally run a server on it, has a dedicated IP, and comes with better (you hope) tech support. You are better off with a business class cable connection, even with some lag due to neighbors it smokes a T1.

[noisyturtle]

Deadmau5 has a sick ass LAN party room with a dedicated T1 internet connection.

These days a common cable connection is waaay faster than a T1 (a T1 is 1.54Mbit/s up/down).

The only benefit a dedicated T1 has is you can legally run a server on it, has a dedicated IP, and comes with better (you hope) tech support. You are better off with a business class cable connection, even with some lag due to neighbors it smokes a T1.

Probably that's what he's got, idk. I just say T1 as like a coverall for a dedicated optic line, like sayin I want a Coke when what I really want is a Fanta. I should probably stop doin that.

[suicidal_orange]

I think LAN parties as I knew them ('old school') were replaced years ago by fast internet connections

Dreamhack is still a thing.
https://dreamhack.com/

True, but you would never have taken your server there.  Back in the day 5 friends would pack into a living room, now they can just put on headsets and stay home.

Problem with lanparty these days is, I've outgrown most games, nostalgia from time to time, but they're hard to dive into for long.

Ya build the bunker, send dudez to the other base,  meanwhile australia is burning down afk, and the back of your mind is thinking, TP4, Australia is burning, you're wasting humanity's resources playing vidya. 

Vidya makes you guilty about afk problems but whether you're playing or not your basement datacenter is running 24/7 and that's fine?  I get the thinking behind it but as with anything reconciling personal actions against a global problem seems pointless - I turn off lights when not in use but most offices in New York are lit 24/7.

Still no cure for Coronavirus, the world has a chance

[absyrd]

hey could do a small perpendicular breakout board just like the extra vrms.

With the amount of heat TR puts out, the size of an air cooler will take up pretty much entire mobo. Many small ITS systems already require low profile ram to clear the heat sinks. If you go water, you still need a place to squeeze the hoses out and all this vertical stuff gets in the way.

It's already an issue just routing wiring in many of these cases without disturbing airflow. Also keep in mind, this is a problem with 95watt cpus, I can't even imagine trying to cool a 270 watt Threadripper in my Ncase.  If you need a larger case just for the cooling, why saddle it with a compromised motherboard.


If you want to see what you are facing here's my adventure with a "95 watt" 8700k in an Ncase.

More

Here is how tight an Ncase M1 with Noctua C14S fits, however you need to replace the 140mm fan with a 120 to even get this. While I didn't use a Noctua fan when I tried this I was uncomfortable with system temps.
(Attachment Link)


Pic by M1AF on Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/ahn4e8/ncase_m1_c14s_stock_psu_mounting_it_fits/

You can turn the psu sideways,  but then you have this (most also mount dual 120 or 140s under the GPU and a 90mm at the back of the case, filling the case entirely).
(Attachment Link)

Shot from the top
(Attachment Link)

Pics from a user named Zoob, but closely match what my system looked like inside before I changed to a Noctua U9S.
https://hardwarecanucks.com/forum/threads/ncase-m1-v1.79119/


The C14S ran fine when the PSU was sideways the problem is the PSU was sucking massive amounts of hot air. Under modest loads the Silverstone 450 watt PSU was running at or above recommended temps, and under full load, the heat and noise was terrible. Switching to a 650 Corsair helped, but even then I was pushing max temps while gaming.  I switched to a U9S, which had less cooling capability, added an extra fan, and while it let the cpu heat up a little more under load the rest of the system, particularly the PSU, were kept cooler.

Understand, this is one of only about 3 coolers capable of handling an 8700k or 9900k in such a small box and those are 90-145 watt CPUs, Threadripper can reach 270 watts. Basically once you pass about 200 watts between CPU and GPU things get really complicated in terms of cooling. And if you think these cases are stuffed, the Ncase isn't even considered all that small these days.

Edit, missed a pic

Nice! Love the ncase.

[Sintpinty]

hey could do a small perpendicular breakout board just like the extra vrms.

With the amount of heat TR puts out, the size of an air cooler will take up pretty much entire mobo. Many small ITS systems already require low profile ram to clear the heat sinks. If you go water, you still need a place to squeeze the hoses out and all this vertical stuff gets in the way.

It's already an issue just routing wiring in many of these cases without disturbing airflow. Also keep in mind, this is a problem with 95watt cpus, I can't even imagine trying to cool a 270 watt Threadripper in my Ncase.  If you need a larger case just for the cooling, why saddle it with a compromised motherboard.


If you want to see what you are facing here's my adventure with a "95 watt" 8700k in an Ncase.

More

Here is how tight an Ncase M1 with Noctua C14S fits, however you need to replace the 140mm fan with a 120 to even get this. While I didn't use a Noctua fan when I tried this I was uncomfortable with system temps.
(Attachment Link)


Pic by M1AF on Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/ahn4e8/ncase_m1_c14s_stock_psu_mounting_it_fits/

You can turn the psu sideways,  but then you have this (most also mount dual 120 or 140s under the GPU and a 90mm at the back of the case, filling the case entirely).
(Attachment Link)

Shot from the top
(Attachment Link)

Pics from a user named Zoob, but closely match what my system looked like inside before I changed to a Noctua U9S.
https://hardwarecanucks.com/forum/threads/ncase-m1-v1.79119/


The C14S ran fine when the PSU was sideways the problem is the PSU was sucking massive amounts of hot air. Under modest loads the Silverstone 450 watt PSU was running at or above recommended temps, and under full load, the heat and noise was terrible. Switching to a 650 Corsair helped, but even then I was pushing max temps while gaming.  I switched to a U9S, which had less cooling capability, added an extra fan, and while it let the cpu heat up a little more under load the rest of the system, particularly the PSU, were kept cooler.

Understand, this is one of only about 3 coolers capable of handling an 8700k or 9900k in such a small box and those are 90-145 watt CPUs, Threadripper can reach 270 watts. Basically once you pass about 200 watts between CPU and GPU things get really complicated in terms of cooling. And if you think these cases are stuffed, the Ncase isn't even considered all that small these days.

Edit, missed a pic

Nice sff build

[Maledicted]

I may be. Are we talking 10/100 "fast"? What old games required local servers for a LAN connection? Are we talking 1980s? Earlier?

Haha!  I think in the 80s they were writing pong and losing it on every reboot...

Struggling to work out when but definitely remember the original Counter Strike had a standalone server, on searching it seems CS:GO did too and that was only 2015 so maybe somewhere kids are still getting some exercise carrying their systems around.

Did you need a dedicated server to play Counter Strike over lan? I would think that that would be odd. I know people were playing that game online, which would make a server make more sense. It looks like maybe Doom needed one? It sounds like it didn't even need to be dedicated hardware though. I know I saw a few old 386 (or so) systems all playing together at the Midwest Gaming Classic in Milwaukee a year or two ago. We didn't have a computer that could run Counter Strike in those days. I just remember going over to a friend's house and him showing me some Half-Life mods, including that.

Still no cure for Coronavirus, the world has a chance

I read at least a few days ago that some lab in California had already made a vaccine within 9 hour or so of receiving a sample. Last I saw, the numbers didn't look too terrible either as far as infections vs fatalities.

[Charlesxvi]

I primarily game on my PC but I also do school work. I got my new one because it struggled with more modern games. That and my power supply died and it fried some components. I'm not 100% sure which parts are busted but I didn't need to test it really anyways. I got all new components and I couldn't be happier, I did have partial bad timing with my gpu and cpu though. I have an 8700k & 2070 but not long after the super cards came out and the 9700k dropped in price.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[absyrd]

I primarily game on my PC but I also do school work. I got my new one because it struggled with more modern games. That and my power supply died and it fried some components. I'm not 100% sure which parts are busted but I didn't need to test it really anyways. I got all new components and I couldn't be happier, I did have partial bad timing with my gpu and cpu though. I have an 8700k & 2070 but not long after the super cards came out and the 9700k dropped in price.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

It is always "bad timing". The next thing is already here by the time **** ships to you. That is the tech game.

Anyhow, RMA'd by 5700xt. Constant crashing with numerous drivers, underclocking/volting, etc. **** that.

[Maledicted]

I primarily game on my PC but I also do school work. I got my new one because it struggled with more modern games. That and my power supply died and it fried some components. I'm not 100% sure which parts are busted but I didn't need to test it really anyways. I got all new components and I couldn't be happier, I did have partial bad timing with my gpu and cpu though. I have an 8700k & 2070 but not long after the super cards came out and the 9700k dropped in price.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

It is always "bad timing". The next thing is already here by the time **** ships to you. That is the tech game.

Anyhow, RMA'd by 5700xt. Constant crashing with numerous drivers, underclocking/volting, etc. **** that.

Sounds like good old ATI all over again.

[Charlesxvi]

I primarily game on my PC but I also do school work. I got my new one because it struggled with more modern games. That and my power supply died and it fried some components. I'm not 100% sure which parts are busted but I didn't need to test it really anyways. I got all new components and I couldn't be happier, I did have partial bad timing with my gpu and cpu though. I have an 8700k & 2070 but not long after the super cards came out and the 9700k dropped in price.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Sounds like good old ATI all over again.

It is always "bad timing". The next thing is already here by the time **** ships to you. That is the tech game.

Anyhow, RMA'd by 5700xt. Constant crashing with numerous drivers, underclocking/volting, etc. **** that.

Yikes, that's gotta suck. With something that expensive and with how many issues people have been having they really should've just taken a little more time and done it right.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[absyrd]

Yeah. I'm back on my 570 8gb for now. I have a freesync monitor that isn't supported by nvidia (yet), so I'll just wait on a 5600 xt / 5700 / 5700 xt when the drivers get sorted, I guess.

[tp4tissue]

Probably that's what he's got, idk. I just say T1 as like a coverall for a dedicated optic line, like sayin I want a Coke when what I really want is a Fanta. I should probably stop doin that.

Pineapple fanta = Best soda.

[noisyturtle]

Probably that's what he's got, idk. I just say T1 as like a coverall for a dedicated optic line, like sayin I want a Coke when what I really want is a Fanta. I should probably stop doin that.

Pineapple fanta = Best soda.

true facts

[fanpeople]

Absolutely not, pineapple Fanta = trash/10.

[tp4tissue]

Absolutely not, pineapple Fanta = trash/10.

/GASP....

which soda is best in straya ?

[fohat.digs]

I did not know that Fanta was even still a thing. When I was a kid, in the 1950s-60s (yes) my mother loved grape Fanta, which, even then, was nauseating to me and I couldn't even stand the smell of it when I was in the car. On the rare occasion that Fanta was the only choice for a soft drink, I could manage to drink an orange Fanta, but that was at the bottom of the list of choices.

I haven't even looked at soft drinks in years, except on that very rare occasion when there are no alternatives, when I quickly find a Sprite or some other lemon-lime option or walk away thirsty. On the other hand, I do quite like soda water and quinine water, although I now generally avoid quinine water because of the sugar and the atrificially sweetened variant is horrendous.
 

[fanpeople]

Absolutely not, pineapple Fanta = trash/10.

/GASP....

which soda is best in straya ?

XXXX
Emu Export
Great Northern

[noisyturtle]

Absolutely not, pineapple Fanta = trash/10.

/GASP....

which soda is best in straya ?

XXXX
Emu Export
Great Northern

[fanpeople]

Holy ****, we really are a pack of uncultured ****s arn't we?

[Sintpinty]

I did not know that Fanta was even still a thing. When I was a kid, in the 1950s-60s (yes) my mother loved grape Fanta, which, even then, was nauseating to me and I couldn't even stand the smell of it when I was in the car. On the rare occasion that Fanta was the only choice for a soft drink, I could manage to drink an orange Fanta, but that was at the bottom of the list of choices.

I haven't even looked at soft drinks in years, except on that very rare occasion when there are no alternatives, when I quickly find a Sprite or some other lemon-lime option or walk away thirsty. On the other hand, I do quite like soda water and quinine water, although I now generally avoid quinine water because of the sugar and the atrificially sweetened variant is horrendous.
 

I think we should move all this soda talk to a different thread but whats your review of bübly soda

[Maledicted]

I think we should move all this soda talk to a different thread but whats your review of bübly soda

You mean the sparkling water? I don't know of any Bubly soda. Their watermelon is great, otherwise the rest could be better. Polar is probably the best overall brand in that market. Kroger, surprisingly, has really good dr. pepper and root beer knockoffs.

You should start a new thread on this in the Off Topic category.

[Leslieann]

If you are planning an upgrade, DO IT NOW.

Parts are going to be short for months due to the virus going around.

[tp4tissue]

If you are planning an upgrade, DO IT NOW.

Parts are going to be short for months due to the virus going around.

most of those mobos are made in taiwan. buh.... i guess maybe some of the other stuff.

[Leslieann]

Besides the fact that China is not the only one being hit, only the worst and it doesn't matter if it gets made if you can't get it to your doorstep.

Not to mention we already have a GPU shortage and we were heading into an artificial shortage of ram and ssd drives.

[absyrd]

Yeah. GPUs are def low stock everywhere. And that is post-mining super craze, too.