Alps Appreciation Thread

[Moistgun]

Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill? cream, so... meh.
Opinions on reconstruction? I doubt i'd ever buy a converter to use it anyways.

I'd like a 60% or a TKL.
IDK how to create a teensy tkl doe.

[fohat.digs]

Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill? cream, so... meh.
Opinions on reconstruction? I doubt i'd ever buy a converter to use it anyways.

I'd like a 60% or a TKL.
IDK how to create a teensy tkl doe.

Do it. (but I am a keyboard butcher)

I don't recall anyone using an AEK2 for this, but way back when, there were AT101 chop jobs that were be similar.

[mrbishop]

gonna go ahead and shameless plug here.  )





https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79766.new#new

[E3E]

you said in the past that you've got a custom AT101 with blue Alps and PBT caps? Where did you source those?

My blue switches came from a couple of LE-2014s that I bought a couple of years ago. The AT101W actually has orange in it.

I have been through a load of AT101s and only ever found one with a set of the PBT caps in "OK" condition.

Personally, I drool at the thought of a really nice set and would never dream of defiling them if I got them.
If you have an extra set I might be willing to trade you for them.

Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I know what you mean. They are not easy to come by, but if everything works out, they will look very nice on the Orion v2 I have coming in. We shall see! If I do dye them, I will be sure to test the dye on lesser PBT caps before hand. I do have another set, but I'm not sure what I want to do with it right now. The alphas on that one are shined anyway though.

If you have a media/sandblaster, you could always try giving the caps their texture back. It's now just starting to become something people are documenting (on Deskthority and Reddit, I've seen), but I've always considered this myself. I just don't have a blaster.

Very cool, useful tool. Would you consider posting the dimensions of the tines and especially the stem extension?

Oh yeah, since I plan on doing a lot of switch swapping since I haven't yet come to terms with desoldering the SKCM Neon Green in my Xerox keyboards, it will be very helpful.

Sure, I'll take them now with a set of calipers.

10.88mm Outer Diameter for the tines 11mm should be fine

2.45mm width at shortest point on stem

Tapering up to 2.92mm

The taper helps guide the slider onto the stem more easily before catching on, but I don't know if it's necessary.

I have two more design ideas for this. One with some kind of retaining tabs to latch onto the bottom of the top housings. The other design is the same but with a stem extension. I'm thinking that these will be nice for any really stubborn switches.

And what is it and where did you find it?

I'm not sure what they are to be honest. I know that sounds dumb, but they came with one kit or another I had for my Dremel, but I've never used them. I don't think I'll regret using them seeing as I've had them for years without any need, hehe.

Any flexible piece of plastic should do though. I'd definitely recommend that quality over any hard material.

[E3E]

So the tabbed design did not really improve anything nor work out well. I think the stem design is the best.

So I refined it and increased the depth of the legs while moving the stem back just so so it could grab the slider at the right depth so that the legs would hold open the taps and allow the top housing to lift up.

My design before was shorter and sometimes the tabs would close onto the top housing slightly as the stem caught onto the switch because the legs were not long enough.

Now it's a flawless pull every time. You could do it with one hand. It takes less than 5 seconds to open a switch.

The tool on the right was the original I've made. It's not so efficient. It was directly inspired by Sandy's golf scoring pencil tool.





The switch top literally springs up on its own thanks to the legs holding the tabs open and the stem grabbing the slider. It's fantastic.

I don't know what material this plastic is, but an acetone test confirms that it's not ABS. It's also difficult to remove the stringy flashing marks from the dremel work I did to the plastic. It's more of an appearance thing. It won't fall into the switch at all.

I need to get more of these mysterious blue Dremel things.

The only variation that I feel I can make for more efficiency is one designed for linear Alps; due to the LED cutout, these do not operate as smoothly on linears, though they still work well.

They don't have that one shot every time awesomeness that this tool has for other switch types.

So I just need to make a tool with one end that's widened to insert into the LED recess and yet still push the tab away.


Hmm, perhaps I should crosspost this in the Making Stuff Together forum.

[jacobolus]

Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill?

There were millions of AEK IIs made, and anyone who wants one can get one on ebay for $20–30 any time. Chop away.

[Moistgun]

Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill?

There were millions of AEK IIs made, and anyone who wants one can get one on ebay for $20–30 any time. Chop away.

Tis Chopped

[E3E]

Finished my purposed Linear Alps switch opening tool. Had to revise it once, but now it's a one-handed one press switch opener. You can seriously open dozens of switches in seconds this way.



Crappier shot with some more switch types:



More shots below:

More

If I could find out what kind of plastic this is, I could order some sheets of it and start making tools for people that would like one!

These are seriously amazing. I used to HATE opening Alps switches. I'd use toothpicks and it was just so tedious and the picks would eventually wear out or break, the tips would splinter...

This is just so quick and simple. I can see a lot more spring, tactile leaf/click leaf, housing, and slider experimentation with these.

[njbair]

Finished my purposed Linear Alps switch opening tool. Had to revise it once, but now it's a one-handed one press switch opener. You can seriously open dozens of switches in seconds this way.

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Crappier shot with some more switch types:

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More shots below:

More

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If I could find out what kind of plastic this is, I could order some sheets of it and start making tools for people that would like one!

These are seriously amazing. I used to HATE opening Alps switches. I'd use toothpicks and it was just so tedious and the picks would eventually wear out or break, the tips would splinter...

This is just so quick and simple. I can see a lot more spring, tactile leaf/click leaf, housing, and slider experimentation with these.

Awesome work. I can't wait to try and make one myself.

Somewhat unrelated, but that brown Alps click leaf, is it two-piece? I've never seen that before.

[pr0ximity]

It was directly inspired by Sandy's golf scoring pencil tool.

Lol I knew they looked familiar. Just a ball mark repair tool

[E3E]

Finished my purposed Linear Alps switch opening tool. Had to revise it once, but now it's a one-handed one press switch opener. You can seriously open dozens of switches in seconds this way.

Show Image

Crappier shot with some more switch types:

Show Image

More shots below:

More

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

If I could find out what kind of plastic this is, I could order some sheets of it and start making tools for people that would like one!

These are seriously amazing. I used to HATE opening Alps switches. I'd use toothpicks and it was just so tedious and the picks would eventually wear out or break, the tips would splinter...

This is just so quick and simple. I can see a lot more spring, tactile leaf/click leaf, housing, and slider experimentation with these.

Awesome work. I can't wait to try and make one myself.

Somewhat unrelated, but that brown Alps click leaf, is it two-piece? I've never seen that before.

Yep, it's actually highly reminiscent of the contact plates inside of Alps switches, except without any contacts (the molding is not exactly the same either), and a leaf clipped onto the top just like the contact plates.

Brown Tactile Alps actually had symmetrical top housings. If you look inside the housing, there's this sort of raised pattern on the outward facing walls. On every other switch, this is only on the side with the contact plate whereas the other side is smooth.

I tried taking apart a junked switch and salvaging its contact plate to see if I could make a "ghetto SKCM brown" this way. I took it apart and tried to put it into an orange Alps housing, but it didn't fit.

It did, however, fit just perfectly in a brown Alps top housing and felt very similar to how brown tactile Alps feels (the contact and tactile leaves are not 100% the same, they are far more pronounced on the actual tactile leaves, but they are actually very similarly shaped nonetheless).

Yep, it was a weird way to do it. The successor to brown SKCM is neon green SKCM and it has a simple tactile leaf like most other switches, but its shape is reminiscent of the brown tactile Alps leaf.

They're certainly from the same lineage. Cream tactile were probably the first more typical tactile switch before Orange and then Salmon and Black, but you can just look at the leaves in most switches, clicky or tactile, and see that the browns and neons deviate a lot further than the difference between typical clicky and tactile leaves.

WHEW that was long-winded. My bad.

Lol I knew they looked familiar. Just a ball mark repair tool

Yep, it heavily inspired me to do this. The stem idea was just a "heeeey, wait" moment when I tried out the original design, haha. "Something's missing here, what can I do to make this even more simple?"

[CPTBadAss]

Bent my own stabilizer for the right shift XD. Made from a paper clip and a bit of patience with needle nose pliers.

[rowdy]

Would it be heinous to chop apart this AEK2 I just got at goodwill?

There were millions of AEK IIs made, and anyone who wants one can get one on ebay for $20–30 any time. Chop away.

Not in this country, unfortunately

[bocahgundul]

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Bent my own stabilizer for the right shift XD. Made from a paper clip and a bit of patience with needle nose pliers.

Is that your new project bro? I see in the last picture that it supposed to use blue alps right?  :p

I have a question about alps stabilizer, Where can you buy them?

[henz]

Show Image

Bent my own stabilizer for the right shift XD. Made from a paper clip and a bit of patience with needle nose pliers.

You should try piano wire, bends perfectly.

[CPTBadAss]

Is that your new project bro? I see in the last picture that it supposed to use blue alps right? 

I have a question about alps stabilizer, Where can you buy them?

Yeah this is the board I'm slowly building and it's definitely Brown SKCM.

Stabilizers I have are from Matias.

You should try piano wire, bends perfectly.

Huh that's good to know. Too bad I didn't have any in hand last night.

[axtran]

Any recommended sources for piano wire? Amazon?

[njbair]

Any recommended sources for piano wire? Amazon?

I found some at HobbyTown USA.

[pr0ximity]

Any recommended sources for piano wire? Amazon?

The local mafia

[E3E]

Any recommended sources for piano wire? Amazon?

The local mafia

^

[klennkellon]

It seems that I'm liking my white ALPS a little more every day when it comes to typing. They just have such a delicious sound to them and I kind of like the feeling that this KB from 1995 is still getting some use. I almost want to finish that essay just as an excuse to type on it more.

My fingers no longer get as tired as I did before, but I'm starting to feel it more in my wrists even though I have quite good posture when typing for extended periods.



That being said, I still cannot stand them for any sort of gaming, I even prefer my $10 Logitech keyboard for that. Alo the FK-2001 is just all around flimsy, nice keycaps though.

To resolve this, I put my FK-2001 on my keyboard tray, which also puts it in a more comfortable position to type in, and I put my mouse and Keycool 87 with Kailh Reds up top for gaming purposes.

I'd like to get a PBT set eventually from somewhere, but the shine from ABS is actually not as bad on white keycaps as it is on black keycaps

[jacobolus]

My fingers no longer get as tired as I did before, but I'm starting to feel it more in my wrists even though I have quite good posture when typing for extended periods.

How long is an “extended period”? You shouldn’t be feeling anything in your wrists from typing.

Maybe take a picture/video of yourself typing?

[klennkellon]

My fingers no longer get as tired as I did before, but I'm starting to feel it more in my wrists even though I have quite good posture when typing for extended periods.

How long is an “extended period”? You shouldn’t be feeling anything in your wrists from typing.

Maybe take a picture/video of yourself typing?

I actually don't feel it much now, maybe it was mind games.

I don't have a cable to connect my phone to my PC, but I type in a self-taught sort of way, I only use three fingers (x2 index and right middle finger) not counting my left thumb that I use for space bar.

[E3E]

I actually don't feel it much now, maybe it was mind games.

I don't have a cable to connect my phone to my PC, but I type in a self-taught sort of way, I only use three fingers (x2 index and right middle finger) not counting my left thumb that I use for space bar.

I finally tried SKCM White in an Acer 6011 the other day thanks to a trade I'm doing for some assembly services (along with some brown tactile Alps).

Since I've had 6 or so blue Alps boards before this, I have to say that I was spoiled. White Alps are okay. Not bad, but they just aren't as smooth as blue Alps, and that's down to the click leaf itself. It is more tactile than the blue Alps leaf, which is the main difference when it comes to feel. Blue Alps are smoother because of that.

I tried putting an SKCM white slider and click leaf into an SKCM orange housing with an orange spring and it felt very much like blues, but the click leaf was keeping it from being as smooth as blues.

[klennkellon]

I actually don't feel it much now, maybe it was mind games.

I don't have a cable to connect my phone to my PC, but I type in a self-taught sort of way, I only use three fingers (x2 index and right middle finger) not counting my left thumb that I use for space bar.

I finally tried SKCM White in an Acer 6011 the other day thanks to a trade I'm doing for some assembly services (along with some brown tactile Alps).

Since I've had 6 or so blue Alps boards before this, I have to say that I was spoiled. White Alps are okay. Not bad, but they just aren't as smooth as blue Alps, and that's down to the click leaf itself. It is more tactile than the blue Alps leaf, which is the main difference when it comes to feel. Blue Alps are smoother because of that.

I tried putting an SKCM white slider and click leaf into an SKCM orange housing with an orange spring and it felt very much like blues, but the click leaf was keeping it from being as smooth as blues.

Is the click leaf the same? Could you just bend the tactile leaf back so it's not as tactile?

[E3E]

I actually don't feel it much now, maybe it was mind games.

I don't have a cable to connect my phone to my PC, but I type in a self-taught sort of way, I only use three fingers (x2 index and right middle finger) not counting my left thumb that I use for space bar.

I finally tried SKCM White in an Acer 6011 the other day thanks to a trade I'm doing for some assembly services (along with some brown tactile Alps).

Since I've had 6 or so blue Alps boards before this, I have to say that I was spoiled. White Alps are okay. Not bad, but they just aren't as smooth as blue Alps, and that's down to the click leaf itself. It is more tactile than the blue Alps leaf, which is the main difference when it comes to feel. Blue Alps are smoother because of that.

I tried putting an SKCM white slider and click leaf into an SKCM orange housing with an orange spring and it felt very much like blues, but the click leaf was keeping it from being as smooth as blues.

Is the click leaf the same? Could you just bend the tactile leaf back so it's not as tactile?

I think it's magrinally different, but that small margin does affect feel. It's probably bent at a bit of a steeper angle for the whites (as well as the salmon in relation to orange).

It's possible, but you'd have to be very careful to ensure consistency.

[Blaise170]

I'm hoping that once I get to try SKCL Greens and Yellows that I'll finally be able to put away the clicky switches. Blues feel great, but Oranges don't have quite the feel that I appreciate in Blues and I can't always have a loud keyboard. I've already listed my V60 on eBay for what I think is a reasonable price but no bites yet. In fact, I really am trying to get rid of a lot of my boards. I just requested the first of two shipments from Japan which should take about two weeks to arrive and adding another 15+ keyboards to my space will really put a strain. Hopefully I can get down to less than 10 boards again and then I'll eventually get a V80 or maybe Filco Zero / Ducky 1087XM. I think I'll keep two AEK IIs and all three X68K boards for myself and sell off the rest. Shipping with SAL is still going to cost me almost $250, so I really hope that the demand is there for dye-sub Japanese Alps caps. 

[E3E]

Is the click leaf the same? Could you just bend the tactile leaf back so it's not as tactile?

Thanks to those switch tools making Alps switch opening fun, I didn't mind taking a white and blue apart for you to do some analysis. The difference is indeed very subtle, but it's there.



LEFT is White, RIGHT is Blue





Blue



White

If you study the silhouette of the lines made by the leaf in the final two comparisons, you can see that there is more of a curve (overall lower slope it seems too) with the blue leaf and a bit more steepness and height with white.

For consistency, if you want to try rebending white leaves, I would bend the legs of the click leaf straight out (upwards) first and then find a small round tool like a tooth pick to crimp the legs around to ensure repeatability with every leaf. That should actually work out pretty okay if you can manage!

By legs, I mean the tiny bits at the end that are bent into that L-like shape, not the entire leaf, just to clarify.

[klennkellon]

Interesting.

I have bad luck opening ALPS switches, even when I put them back together properly I keep killing the tactility and click, four are completely linear and I magically morphed one into what feels like a Topre switch.

[jacobolus]

Blue and white Alps have different spring, different click leaf, subtly different slider shape, different switchplate assembly, and different housing shape (mostly to accommodate the different switchplate). In other words, every part is slightly different between the two. Additionally, the blue switches have some kind of factory applied lubricant which the white switches seem not to have.

[jacobolus]

I have bad luck opening ALPS switches, even when I put them back together properly I keep killing the tactility and click,

You’re not putting them back together properly, in that case. (Edit: or I suppose you could have bent the leaf out of shape while it was outside of the switch. You have to be careful with these little metal leaf springs.)

I suspect you’re either putting the slider in backwards, not getting the click leaf where it’s supposed to be, somehow got the switchplate leaf out of position, or possibly have the spring not seated on its peg.

They’re definitely easier to reassemble when desoldered from the board.

If you have them soldered down though, I find the easiest way to put soldered Alps switches back together is to put the click leaf, slider, and spring into the top housing, with the slider pushed flush with the housing, have the board held upside-down (i.e. with the open switch housing facing downward), get the other end of the spring onto the peg in the bottom housing, and then press the housing halves together. When you let your finger up the slider should spring up, and the switch should be working as usual. Be careful that the slider is facing the right direction.

[klennkellon]

Ill try to post some pictures tomorrow.

In the mean time, I'll just take out all of the click leafs on the numeric keys (above the alphabetical keys) and make them all linear, It's a feature!

[Blaise170]

That Microterm I bought ended up being an amazing keyboard:

• New old stock
• Alps SKCL Green
• Alps SKCL Cream
• Dyesub(?) PBT keycaps
• PBT Alps-mount Blanks

[henz]

i want a keyboard with Dyesubs and a at101 layout, what options do i have?

what i got so far:

acer 6311
sgi granite/iris
some dell at101

i also want some browns,clicky greens, clicky whites or clicky blues.

If my preference and keycaps could be included in 1 keyboard, id be a happy panda.

[Blaise170]

Acer 6311 isn't Alps, it's Acer switch. No such thing as clicky greens. Browns are extremely hard to find, much less in an ANSI layout. Blues are also hard to find and very expensive, with very few keyboards (e.g. Leading Edge DC-3014) having an ANSI layout. Whites are very common and so would be your best bet, you could get them ANSI in boards like the Focus FK series.

As for keycaps, about the only board guaranteed to have dyesubs in a near-ANSI layout is the AEK and AEK II.

[Mattr567]

Acer 6311 isn't Alps, it's Acer switch. No such thing as clicky greens. Browns are extremely hard to find, much less in an ANSI layout. Blues are also hard to find and very expensive, with very few keyboards (e.g. Leading Edge DC-3014) having an ANSI layout. Whites are very common and so would be your best bet, you could get them ANSI in boards like the Focus FK series.

As for keycaps, about the only board guaranteed to have dyesubs in a near-ANSI layout is the AEK and AEK II.

The SGI AT101s always have lovely dyesubs, unlike the Dells. Otherwise yea, if he wanted Browns or something the only way would be to switch swap a AT101 like I did.

[jacobolus]

That Microterm [...]

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Two cream switches under the spacebar? People used to have ridiculous thumbs.

[chyros]

Acer 6311 isn't Alps, it's Acer switch. No such thing as clicky greens. Browns are extremely hard to find, much less in an ANSI layout. Blues are also hard to find and very expensive, with very few keyboards (e.g. Leading Edge DC-3014) having an ANSI layout. Whites are very common and so would be your best bet, you could get them ANSI in boards like the Focus FK series.

As for keycaps, about the only board guaranteed to have dyesubs in a near-ANSI layout is the AEK and AEK II.

The SGI AT101s always have lovely dyesubs, unlike the Dells.

Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!

[fohat.digs]

Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!

Only a small number of the very very earliest ones, alas.

[Blaise170]

Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!

I think he meant to imply that SGI keys are always dye sub while Dells are not always dyesub, not that one is better than another.

[chyros]

Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!

I think he meant to imply that SGI keys are always dye sub while Dells are not always dyesub, not that one is better than another.

Haha yeah the Silitek-made lasered ones aren't quite as nice xD .

[jacobolus]

Among Alps dyesubs, the ones on the Dell AT101 are pretty much the most mediocre. The keycaps themselves are nice though.

[Mattr567]

Among Alps dyesubs, the ones on the Dell AT101 are pretty much the most mediocre. The keycaps themselves are nice though.

The legends? Their pretty standard, nothing wrong with that. The SGI's are fun.

Whatchyou talkin bout foo, the AT101 dyesubs are great! Thick, beautiful, and made by the same people as the SGI's!

I think he meant to imply that SGI keys are always dye sub while Dells are not always dyesub, not that one is better than another.

Exactly. Both are made by Alps Electric

[klennkellon]

Are buckling springs and White Complicated ALPS comparable at all?

[Hak Foo]

i want a keyboard with Dyesubs and a at101 layout, what options do i have?

what i got so far:

acer 6311
sgi granite/iris
some dell at101

i also want some browns,clicky greens, clicky whites or clicky blues.

If my preference and keycaps could be included in 1 keyboard, id be a happy panda.

Matias Tactile Pro is a 103-layout which is 101-layout plus an extra Fn and Windows key.

[chyros]

Are buckling springs and White Complicated ALPS comparable at all?

No.

[henz]

i want a keyboard with Dyesubs and a at101 layout, what options do i have?

what i got so far:

acer 6311
sgi granite/iris
some dell at101

i also want some browns,clicky greens, clicky whites or clicky blues.


If my preference and keycaps could be included in 1 keyboard, id be a happy panda.

Matias Tactile Pro is a 103-layout which is 101-layout plus an extra Fn and Windows key.

ive actually thought of getting the black blanks from the matias site. but i want sexy dyesubs, i already have a set of sgi so ideally i would like to get something else, i might settle for nice northgatedoubleshots.

[jacobolus]

Are buckling springs and White Complicated ALPS comparable at all?

Well... what’s the frame of reference?

They’re both keyboard switches, they’re both rather loud, they both have significant tactile feedback, etc.

They’re much closer to each other than either is to a Cherry MX switch. That’s not saying much though.

You should just find one of each and try them.

[Mattr567]

A taste of what is to come The lights shall shine!


Bonus:

[E3E]

A taste of what is to come The lights shall shine!

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Bonus:

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Wow, keeping it classy with the old school red LED look? Sick man. You know, the Xerox boards actually have green LEDs. I wonder how many variations there were. I've mainly seen red ones.

Very nice. Can't wait to see it. Good cap choice as well for that retro look. Switch tester is looking mighty fine too!