Alps Appreciation Thread

[Blaise170]

sweet
all i have is Cherry MX boards right now. i'm kinda liking alps tho now that ive had a chance to play with them. i need to find a retailer for the switches.
where do you get your JIS/EN caps from?

http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9C%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89+apple+extended&aq=-1&oq=&x=0&y=0&ei=UTF-8&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=&slider=0

[mrbishop]

sweet
all i have is Cherry MX boards right now. i'm kinda liking alps tho now that ive had a chance to play with them. i need to find a retailer for the switches.
where do you get your JIS/EN caps from?

http://auctions.search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9C%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89+apple+extended&aq=-1&oq=&x=0&y=0&ei=UTF-8&tab_ex=commerce&auccat=&slider=0

awesome! thanks

[Delirious]

So I finally got a chance to play with some Orange Alps today. I took everything apart, dusted, and finally lubed springs and contact points with Krytox 106.

Comparing to dampened cream, I am not impressed at all. Orange has a harsher landing sound than Cream, it also feels a bit wobbly as it bounces back up. The Oranges were also in pretty bad shapes compared to the Creams. I wonder if anyone else has the same experience or my Oranges are just terrible beyond repair. I also have yet to experience any Salmon, I would love to hear some thought on Salmon vs. Cream.

[hoggy]

Congrats on finding that Filco! 

[Blaise170]

In my experience, Orange > Salmon > Cream Damped. I've never tried non-damped tactile Creams but I do like linear Creams (if a bit heavy).

And thanks Hoggy!

P.S. Anyone who is interested in my incoming packages from Japan due to wanting keycaps, boards, etc., you can view it in my sig. 

[sean]

So I finally got a chance to play with some Orange Alps today. I took everything apart, dusted, and finally lubed springs and contact points with Krytox 106.

Comparing to dampened cream, I am not impressed at all. Orange has a harsher landing sound than Cream, it also feels a bit wobbly as it bounces back up. The Oranges were also in pretty bad shapes compared to the Creams. I wonder if anyone else has the same experience or my Oranges are just terrible beyond repair. I also have yet to experience any Salmon, I would love to hear some thought on Salmon vs. Cream.

As far as I know you aren't supposed to lube the springs and you aren't supposed to use oil lube. Could that be causing your problems? I can't imagine anything worse than creams.

[Mattr567]

So I finally got a chance to play with some Orange Alps today. I took everything apart, dusted, and finally lubed springs and contact points with Krytox 106.

Comparing to dampened cream, I am not impressed at all. Orange has a harsher landing sound than Cream, it also feels a bit wobbly as it bounces back up. The Oranges were also in pretty bad shapes compared to the Creams. I wonder if anyone else has the same experience or my Oranges are just terrible beyond repair. I also have yet to experience any Salmon, I would love to hear some thought on Salmon vs. Cream.

As far as I know you aren't supposed to lube the springs and you aren't supposed to use oil lube. Could that be causing your problems? I can't imagine anything worse than creams.

Agree with this. My SKCM Oranges aren't like that at all.

[Delirious]

So after poking around a bit more I found that my Oranges were so terrible in condition that my initial cleaning wasn't good enough. About 60% of them were inconsistent and sandy when press. The good ones are definitely better than Cream. I am currently soaking the housings in water. For the metal contacts and springs I will brush them with isopropyl alcohol. Hopefully that will be good enough to restore these Orange switches to their original glory.

[sean]

So after poking around a bit more I found that my Oranges were so terrible in condition that my initial cleaning wasn't good enough. About 60% of them were inconsistent and sandy when press. The good ones are definitely better than Cream. I am currently soaking the housings in water. For the metal contacts and springs I will brush them with isopropyl alcohol. Hopefully that will be good enough to restore these Orange switches to their original glory.

You might want to soak the sliders too and apply some dry lube to them. Good luck on the restoration!

[E3E]

Lubricating the compression springs is just fine (victorinox is amazing for anything metal)! I've done it for my SKCL Greens for my Hammer Alps (hotswappable Eagle w/ backlit SKCL) because the older switches are notorious for ping. Lube clears that right up.

I would definitely try using a dry film lube on the sliders if you strip the switches using isopropyl alcohol. Nubbinator suggests molybdenum disulfide powder, but to be honest, something that goes on wet but leaves a dry film behind is likely more effective.

I've never had the displeasure of using switches that were super unpleasantly scratchy. The closest were some SKCL yellows from a Z-150. I might not be as sensitive to scratchiness as some people are (I am, on the other hand, very sensitive to spring ping, which I dislike to the nth degree), but even on perfectly good NOS switches I've had, you can hear friction if you place the switch right next to your ear.

To be honest though, this sound is likely from the spring and not the slider.

Good luck with the SKCM Orange switches. They are one of the best tactile Alps switch types.

[jacobolus]

So after poking around a bit more I found that my Oranges were so terrible in condition that my initial cleaning wasn't good enough. About 60% of them were inconsistent and sandy when press.

The problem is dust/grit stuck between the slider and the top housing. If the dust was there while the keyboard sat unused, then you might be able to fix it by getting the dust all back out. Start by blasting compressed air into the top housing, before getting anything wet. After that, the best tool is probably an ultrasonic cleaner, but you could maybe get a reasonable improvement with a q-tip (maybe soaked in alcohol?).

If the keyboard was used much while being full of grit, then there will be physical abrasion to the plastic, and I don’t think there’s too much you can do. I had some scratchy Alps switches that I couldn’t figure out any way to fix.

* * *

It’s much easier to just find keyswitches which are in good condition to begin with.

[Mattr567]

So after poking around a bit more I found that my Oranges were so terrible in condition that my initial cleaning wasn't good enough. About 60% of them were inconsistent and sandy when press.

The problem is dust/grit stuck between the slider and the top housing. If the dust was there while the keyboard sat unused, then you might be able to fix it by getting the dust all back out. Start by blasting compressed air into the top housing, before getting anything wet. After that, the best tool is probably an ultrasonic cleaner, but you could maybe get a reasonable improvement with a q-tip (maybe soaked in alcohol?).

If the keyboard was used much while being full of grit, then there will be physical abrasion to the plastic, and I don’t think there’s too much you can do. I had some scratchy Alps switches that I couldn’t figure out any way to fix.

* * *

It’s much easier to just find keyswitches which are in good condition to begin with.

True. Well at least you got some good ones. Typing right now on first gen grey plate SKCM Orange and they are great. A tiny gritty, I know there is a bit of dust in them but I dont care enough to open all of them, plus risk crushing the tactile leaf putting it back together.

[klennkellon]

I definitely want to restore my FK-2001 now, such a pretty board.

What are some specific models of keyboards that are good for using for parts that don't usually go for much on ebay? Otherwise I'm just going to order Matias switches and use the click leafs and springs (the springs are compatible too right?)

I have to replace the springs and click leafs on nine switches, and the contact/tactile leaf is missing from two switches as well, rendering them unusable at the time. I don't believe I can salvage parts from the Matias for this.

I'm also planning to get a nice double-shot keycap set for it, nothing too flashy to ruin the classy appearance of the board (two of the keycaps vanished)

Lastly, I have to deal with the broken clamps, I used this glue (that was way stronger than I thought) to hold the bottom shell to the top shell on the bottom right corner, but I don't believe I'm going to need to open up the keyboard any time soon in the first place so this shouldn't be a huge problem.

[mastermachetier]

In my experience, Orange > Salmon > Cream Damped. I've never tried non-damped tactile Creams but I do like linear Creams (if a bit heavy).

And thanks Hoggy!

P.S. Anyone who is interested in my incoming packages from Japan due to wanting keycaps, boards, etc., you can view it in my sig. 

I am too excited for this haul haha.

[bcredbottle]

For anyone with an Alps board, would you mind just letting me know what caps are on your board so I can make a mod set?


Please use this Google order form.

[chyros]

For anyone with an Alps board, would you mind just letting me know what caps are on your board so I can make a mod set?


Please use this Google order form.

I have over 20 Alps boards and additional Alps-mount ones but I constantly rotate boards so the only one I use at least once a week is my old-logo AT101 with dyesub ABS caps, which is my office board. Most of my other Alps boards have doubleshot ABS caps, although I also have dyesub PBT, dyesub ABS, lasered ABS, rimless pad-printed ABS and rimmed pad-printed ABS.

[Blaise170]

"I have no proof it works, so I just want to sit it on my desk."

[njbair]

"I have no proof it works, so I just want to sit it on my desk."

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This is why I hate eBay.

[romevi]

"I have no proof it works, so I just want to sit it on my desk."

Show Image

If you didn't get the option before, you can now set an automatic decline option.

[fohat.digs]

If you didn't get the option before, you can now set an automatic decline option.

If you persevere during the original listing, you can defeat the "entertain offers" button - but it is not easy.

Sometimes, after clicking on it 10-20 times, it will go away. Other times, you have to leave it, go fiddle with some later settings, and come back to it. As a last resort, list it, then go back to "edit" your listing and you can probably turn it off then.

It will go away, but you really have to work at it. And you should, because if you decline offers near the selling price then some ignorant buyers will be irritated to think that you are teasing them.
 

[mrbishop]

You should reply back with a bill of materials.

[fohat.digs]

You should totally ignore any offer that is not fair and reasonable.

[mrbishop]

Agreed

[romevi]

If you didn't get the option before, you can now set an automatic decline option.

If you persevere during the original listing, you can defeat the "entertain offers" button - but it is not easy.

Sometimes, after clicking on it 10-20 times, it will go away. Other times, you have to leave it, go fiddle with some later settings, and come back to it. As a last resort, list it, then go back to "edit" your listing and you can probably turn it off then.

It will go away, but you really have to work at it. And you should, because if you decline offers near the selling price then some ignorant buyers will be irritated to think that you are teasing them.

I set automatic declines at half the BIN price. Saves me the hassle of declining it (I could ignore it, but I'd rather not).

[Blaise170]

If you persevere during the original listing, you can defeat the "entertain offers" button - but it is not easy.

Sometimes, after clicking on it 10-20 times, it will go away. Other times, you have to leave it, go fiddle with some later settings, and come back to it. As a last resort, list it, then go back to "edit" your listing and you can probably turn it off then.

It will go away, but you really have to work at it. And you should, because if you decline offers near the selling price then some ignorant buyers will be irritated to think that you are teasing them.

I usually list my items at 10-15% more than I expect to get, because I expect to get 10-15% less with a make best offer button. It makes the buyer feel like they are getting a good deal and me a good price. I don't mind people who make offers lower than I want, I'll counter with an offer near my lowest sell price. On the other hand, when you offer me $20 for a mechanical keyboard with a (cheap) keyset worth more than that, hell no am I going to entertain your haggling.

[jacobolus]

Automatic declines can be annoying though; sometimes someone will be selling a non-functional 80s luggable “for parts”, with a BIN listing of, say, $20 with a $40 shipping cost, and I’ll make an offer for the price of the listing but with shipping reduced to $8, with a note saying “I only want the keyboard, can you just keep the rest of the machine, and cut the shipping to actual costs?” ... AUTO DECLINE. And then I feel like I wasted a bunch of time typing.

[klennkellon]

I actually have another idea.

I'm going to take all of the healthy click leafs from the numpad cluster and swap them to the numeric keys above the alphabetical keys, for consistency sake.

If I have no luck replacing the parts, I'll go all out and solder in Matias switches on the numpad area. Only problem is the top shell of the case is partially super-glued but some goof-off and a butter knife should do the trick.

[bocahgundul]

So uh I've been wondering to switche from standard layout to ergodox cause my fingers are starting to hurt when using a standard layout keyboard  :'

But the problem is I want to make an alps ergodox cause I love alps switches.

I see that falbatech.pl is offering to sell a litster style ergodox case with an alps compatible plate! so the problem is how does alps switches feels in acrylic plate? or can someone that haves a cnc or waterjet cutter make me a SS or Alu plate?

and the second problems is keycaps issues cause the only keycaps that supports alps in ergodox layout is in DSA profile which I don't like. so how many AEK 2 keyboard that I need to scrap to get a full ergodox keycaps?

[S1llyC0ne]

So uh I've been wondering to switche from standard layout to ergodox cause my fingers are starting to hurt when using a standard layout keyboard  :'

But the problem is I want to make an alps ergodox cause I love alps switches.

Why wouldn't you order an Infinity Ergodox without switches so you can use your favorite ones?
I ordered one with Matias Quiet Click and DSA blank keycaps. I don't like DSA profile but I am waiting for Matias to release their forthcoming colorful keysets so I can fully enjoy the experience.

[bocahgundul]

So uh I've been wondering to switche from standard layout to ergodox cause my fingers are starting to hurt when using a standard layout keyboard  :'

But the problem is I want to make an alps ergodox cause I love alps switches.

Why wouldn't you order an Infinity Ergodox without switches so you can use your favorite ones?
I ordered one with Matias Quiet Click and DSA blank keycaps. I don't like DSA profile but I am waiting for Matias to release their forthcoming colorful keysets so I can fully enjoy the experience.

The problem is I missed the buy 

[bocahgundul]

Alps bottom housing and contact leaf are changeable right?

Edit : sorry for double post

[S1llyC0ne]

The problem is I missed the buy 

I know how hard it is to be patient when it involves one of your favorite hobby. My wallet concurs.

[E3E]

Alps bottom housing and contact leaf are changeable right?

Edit : sorry for double post

No, not all of them are. You cannot put a long contact plate into a housing meant for short contact plates like from SKCM Orange to SKCM Salmon. Vise versa, and the short plate would not be properly stabilized as the newer housings have pegs to make up for the shorter length.

Now, yes, you could, say, put a blue Alps top housing in a salmon bottom housing. No idea how that would change the feel though. I'll have to check right now.

Okay, so I swapped a blue Alps top housing, slider, and click leaf into a salmon bottom housing. I then scrambled it between three other blue Alps switches. I was able to pick the salmon one out.

Its click was a bit louder but the feel is otherwise the same, I'd say. Kind of makes sense, considering the space is more open in the housing of a salmon switch thanks to having a short contact plate. Actually, the switch felt a slight bit stiffer, almost like white Alps.

Now, I swapped SKCM Blue into an SKCM Orange housing and the feel was exactly the same. Contact plate length seems to certainly affect feel.

[bocahgundul]

Alps bottom housing and contact leaf are changeable right?

Edit : sorry for double post

No, not all of them are. You cannot put a long contact plate into a housing meant for short contact plates like from SKCM Orange to SKCM Salmon. Vise versa, and the short plate would not be properly stabilized as the newer housings have pegs to make up for the shorter length.

Now, yes, you could, say, put a blue Alps top housing in a salmon bottom housing. No idea how that would change the feel though. I'll have to check right now.

Okay, so I swapped a blue Alps top housing, slider, and click leaf into a salmon bottom housing. I then scrambled it between three other blue Alps switches. I was able to pick the salmon one out.

Its click was a bit louder but the feel is otherwise the same, I'd say. Kind of makes sense, considering the space is more open in the housing of a salmon switch thanks to having a short contact plate. Actually, the switch felt a slight bit stiffer, almost like white Alps.

Now, I swapped SKCM Blue into an SKCM Orange housing and the feel was exactly the same. Contact plate length seems to certainly affect feel.

Yeah thank you E3E so I can swap SKCM Blue bottom housing to SKCM Orange right?

[E3E]

Alps bottom housing and contact leaf are changeable right?

Edit : sorry for double post

No, not all of them are. You cannot put a long contact plate into a housing meant for short contact plates like from SKCM Orange to SKCM Salmon. Vise versa, and the short plate would not be properly stabilized as the newer housings have pegs to make up for the shorter length.

Now, yes, you could, say, put a blue Alps top housing in a salmon bottom housing. No idea how that would change the feel though. I'll have to check right now.

Okay, so I swapped a blue Alps top housing, slider, and click leaf into a salmon bottom housing. I then scrambled it between three other blue Alps switches. I was able to pick the salmon one out.

Its click was a bit louder but the feel is otherwise the same, I'd say. Kind of makes sense, considering the space is more open in the housing of a salmon switch thanks to having a short contact plate. Actually, the switch felt a slight bit stiffer, almost like white Alps.

Now, I swapped SKCM Blue into an SKCM Orange housing and the feel was exactly the same. Contact plate length seems to certainly affect feel.

Yeah thank you E3E so I can swap SKCM Blue bottom housing to SKCM Orange right?

Yes. There's no change in feel if you do that, so long as you keep the springs intact. SKCM Orange is 5g lighter than SKCM Blue, so if you want an even lighter blue, you could just swap in the slider and click leaf.

[klennkellon]

I did a little ghetto mod to my focus while the switches are on the way.

I stuffed all of the empty room in the keyboard with rolls of dense paper towels, the result is that the keyboard feels a little heavier, and the typing sound is marginally more deep and sounds more "click clunk"

[Webserfer]

I recently dug this out of my closet thinking it was a membrane keyboard but realized it was a mechanical one. After random googling I found out it uses alps switches, I really should of looked harder as its actually written on the switch XD






I may of accidentally fried this board or at least the ships on it as while trying to repair the desktop its paired with I put voltage into some wires it shouldn't go and now throws up an error and doesn't respond.
So if I did kill it my question is, is it worth trying to repair? The circuit board looks like I can just cut the traces and solder to the switches. I saw some cheap keyboard controllers around.

Is it worth my time or are the switches weak, old or cheap to be worth it?

Also as a side question, has anyone heard of that pc brand? the desktop is the same brand but google says it doesn't exist, I can't find info on it anywhere.

Also signed up just to post this so hello people

[fohat.digs]

I stuffed all of the empty room in the keyboard with rolls of dense paper towels, the result is that the keyboard feels a little heavier, and the typing sound is marginally more deep and sounds more "click clunk"

I pad all my cases. I use waffle rubber drawer liner and/or felt, often both. I lay down as many flat sheets as possible, fold rectangles to fill rectangular voids, and cut strips and roll cylinders to fit the odd-shaped spaces.

In certain cases I have even used flexible caulk to glue pieces of my EPDM in place.

[fohat.digs]

Also as a side question, has anyone heard of that pc brand? the desktop is the same brand but google says it doesn't exist, I can't find info on it anywhere.

PC Direct was a US "economy clone" maker in the mid-late 1980s. There were several companies that followed Michael Dell (aka PC's LTD back then) into the IBM-PC-clone market - including the delightfully-named "Famous Maker" brand:

- "Hey, I know where you can buy a famous maker PC for cheap!"

My first computer was a PC's LTD 80286 that cost just under $3K and did not include a printer. At that point the keyboard was one of the peripherals that you bought as a separate component to complete your rig.

[klennkellon]

I got the Matias switches today, just from testing the switches individually I kind of like them more than the actual alps, they feel snappier, lighter, and smoother.

however they do sound more hollow and plasticy.

[E3E]

I got the Matias switches today, just from testing the switches individually I kind of like them more than the actual alps, they feel snappier, lighter, and smoother.

however they do sound more hollow and plasticy.

How about swapping them into genuine complicated Alps housings? That'll likely eliminate the hollowness. Well, if you put them in a switch with a long switchplate like SKCM Orange. The short switch plate varieties also feel and sound a bit more hollow.

[Mattr567]

I got the Matias switches today, just from testing the switches individually I kind of like them more than the actual alps, they feel snappier, lighter, and smoother.

however they do sound more hollow and plasticy.

Not in my case at least. Matias click switches from my now desoldred V60 are good switches, but felt almost of a MX Clear equivalent in the Alps world. Comparing the Matias's tactile bump it is in-between SKCM Amber and SKCM Blue. With SKCM Blue being a MX Blue equivalent and the SKCM Amber being MX Grey. Matias is MX Clear as I said, right in the middle.

Hollow AF, I agree for sure. Still smooth, but doesn't touch SKCM Orange or Blue. Can't comment on SKCM White since for a very strange reason I've never tried them yet being one of the most common Alps switches ever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I got the Matias switches today, just from testing the switches individually I kind of like them more than the actual alps, they feel snappier, lighter, and smoother.

however they do sound more hollow and plasticy.

How about swapping them into genuine complicated Alps housings? That'll likely eliminate the hollowness. Well, if you put them in a switch with a long switchplate like SKCM Orange. The short switch plate varieties also feel and sound a bit more hollow.

I tried this, but the other way around. It seems Matias switch parts are slightly bigger than Alps SKCM/SKCL. Couldn't even swap a SKCM Orange slider into a Matias housing if I recall. So there is no way any bigger Matias parts (expect for the tactile leaf?) that will fit into any OG Alps stuff. Sorry to break the bubble.

I also tried to swap a complete complicated tactile leaf into a Matias housing. Used a screwdriver to cut down some plastic inside the housing and got the contact leaf in. Never got the switch properly together but for a few moments a SKCM Orange switch inside a clear housing looked badass

[klennkellon]

[removed]

[klennkellon]

I removed about 7 good switches from the numpad area, but got tired and re assembled, will finish it later.

I just need to order a couple more matias switches and a new keycap set and this baby will be good to go,

[Webserfer]

Also as a side question, has anyone heard of that pc brand? the desktop is the same brand but google says it doesn't exist, I can't find info on it anywhere.

PC Direct was a US "economy clone" maker in the mid-late 1980s. There were several companies that followed Michael Dell (aka PC's LTD back then) into the IBM-PC-clone market - including the delightfully-named "Famous Maker" brand:

- "Hey, I know where you can buy a famous maker PC for cheap!"

My first computer was a PC's LTD 80286 that cost just under $3K and did not include a printer. At that point the keyboard was one of the peripherals that you bought as a separate component to complete your rig.

Apparently they went on into the 90s as this machine was around 1994 as that seems to be the latest date I could find on it.

[E3E]

Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A





Don't have to use her like this anymore:



Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.

[jbondeson]

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Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)

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Don't have to use her like this anymore:

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Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.

I'm placing a new vote for KeyCon 2016 in The Big Easy so I can infiltrate Chez E3E and play with all the alps goodness 

[klennkellon]

Debating replacing all the switches on the focus with Matias now, i've tried cleaning and lubing a few of the alps switches and they still arent nearly as smooth or snappy.

[Mattr567]

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Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)

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Don't have to use her like this anymore:

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Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.

Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?

[sean]

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Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)

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Don't have to use her like this anymore:

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Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.

Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?

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Done her restoration, finally. My Datapoint-branded Acer KB101A :)

Show Image

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Don't have to use her like this anymore:

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Nice board, but I really don't know what of all my vintage blue Alps boards is my favorite, heh.

Man you got all the goodies. Leading Edge DC 3014? Damn. You have so much SKCM Blue you wouldn't know what to do with it lol. How much do ya think you have spent on keyboards so far?

That's like asking a woman if they're pregnant!