Alps Appreciation Thread

[jacobolus]

Dang. I think 55g Topre is actually too light. 
Slightly off topic, but if I find the above true and think that 65g Zealios are way too light, will 78g Zealios be too much?
Also, Orange Alps are just about perfect; what's the bottoming out force on those?

55 g on a relative scale is not stiff at all xD . Sure it might be too stiff for some people, but many switches are stiffer than that, sometimes considerably more so . Most Alps switches are fairly stiff.

These “grams” numbers are misleading. 55g Topre feels about as stiff in practice as MX clear, brown Alps, or a Model M, in my abstract mental image of these switches. The Model M is higher peak force, but the catastrophic buckling of the spring changes the subjective feel dramatically.

Once there are reliable force curve measurements taken of real switches on HaaTa’s machine, we can try to come up with some better metric for “how much work does the switch take to actuate/fully press”, “how tactile is it”, “how painful is it to mash to bottom-out”, etc.

In practice, orange Alps is pretty comparable to 45g Topre IMO, though I don’t own any Topre keyboards, so that’s just going off vague memory.

65g Zealios (that number is based on bottom-out force, right?) are probably fairly comparable to orange Alps. 78g Zealios is going to be closer to black Alps switches or MX clear, I’m guessing. [I haven’t tried Zealios, I could be off base.]

[ipreferpie]

So I'm lucky enough to score several SKCM Blues and SKCM Browns. [...] If I generally have enojoyed 65g Zealios, 55g Silenced Topre and 62g Aristotle/Zealio hybrids, does anyone have a good suggestion which ones to use? I know tactile is quite different from clicky, but I'm worried that browns are stiff (I'm not a fan of MX Clears due to stiffness). Or should I consider SKCM Oranges instead?

55g Topre is also a very stiff switch. Personally I find brown Alps, 55g Topre, and MX clear to all be too stiff for my taste, and I don’t particularly enjoy the “rounded” force curve of Topre, brown/lime Alps, or Burroughs torsion spring switches. YMMV.

Good condition orange and blue Alps switches are both really fantastic switches if you want something lightly–crisply tactile, two of the most enjoyable typing experiences. You can’t go wrong with either of those. The blue ones in particular are IMO the most “elegant” sounding clicky switch you can find. If you want something a bit snappier, then white Alps switches and SMK clicky switches are also great.

Looks like I might have to build 2 alps boards in that case! For me, the topre 55g feels wonderful to type on but it does get tiring for long sessions.

In terms of sound is the Matias Quiet Click or SKCM Orange quieter than the Browns?

[jacobolus]

Orange and brown Alps switches will both be pretty loud at bottom-out, though exactly how loud depends on the case construction, what kind of table you set your keyboard on, etc.

Matias quiet switches are much quieter.

[klennkellon]

Matias Quiet Click are dampened tactile switches, and are among the quietest mechanical switches.

ALPS in general are really loud, even their non-clicky switches can be louder than some clicky switches.

[eohmiller]

So I'm lucky enough to score several SKCM Blues and SKCM Browns. [...] If I generally have enojoyed 65g Zealios, 55g Silenced Topre and 62g Aristotle/Zealio hybrids, does anyone have a good suggestion which ones to use? I know tactile is quite different from clicky, but I'm worried that browns are stiff (I'm not a fan of MX Clears due to stiffness). Or should I consider SKCM Oranges instead?

55g Topre is also a very stiff switch. Personally I find brown Alps, 55g Topre, and MX clear to all be too stiff for my taste, and I don’t particularly enjoy the “rounded” force curve of Topre, brown/lime Alps, or Burroughs torsion spring switches. YMMV.

Good condition orange and blue Alps switches are both really fantastic switches if you want something lightly–crisply tactile, two of the most enjoyable typing experiences. You can’t go wrong with either of those. The blue ones in particular are IMO the most “elegant” sounding clicky switch you can find. If you want something a bit snappier, then white Alps switches and SMK clicky switches are also great.

Looks like I might have to build 2 alps boards in that case! For me, the topre 55g feels wonderful to type on but it does get tiring for long sessions.

In terms of sound is the Matias Quiet Click or SKCM Orange quieter than the Browns?

The QCs seem to be the quietest in my opinion. They have a pretty hefty tactile feedback too.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Just got my KBP V60 Matias Clicky nice little board and i'm digging the switch.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

Some time ago my best pal asked if I didn't have a spare keyboard, as he urgently needed something for his mum, a retired GP doctor. So I said LOL, okay, but it's gonna be oooold. There's a whole box of them old Dells, if a key doesn't work or something like that just come back and pick another one, just can't guarantee it won't be a particularly bad shade of yellow. He didn't come back, and the 'board supposedly is great. Also gave one of them to a Ph.D. student in literature and another to a coder. That means I should still have seven left. Ironically, while I appreciate the uncommon speed you can type on them with (compared to anything else, include blue Majestouch), I somehow can't use one myself. I worry about missing characters if I don't realize something's odd with them, and as a professional translator I would face a lot of disproportionate hate over a typo or missing plural or something else like that.

[jacobolus]

The contact mechanisms in complicated Alps switches are actually much more robust and better engineered (over-engineered?) than the contact mechanisms in Cherry MX switches. You’re pretty unlikely to get typos from switch chatter if you press the switches past the tactile point, unless there’s some damage to the keyboard circuitry. (I suppose it’s also possible for the metal leaf spring that presses the contact down to get bent out of shape, but that’s unlikely to happen without some kind of serious keyboard abuse.)

[Mattr567]

Some time ago my best pal asked if I didn't have a spare keyboard, as he urgently needed something for his mum, a retired GP doctor. So I said LOL, okay, but it's gonna be oooold. There's a whole box of them old Dells, if a key doesn't work or something like that just come back and pick another one, just can't guarantee it won't be a particularly bad shade of yellow. He didn't come back, and the 'board supposedly is great. Also gave one of them to a Ph.D. student in literature and another to a coder. That means I should still have seven left. Ironically, while I appreciate the uncommon speed you can type on them with (compared to anything else, include blue Majestouch), I somehow can't use one myself. I worry about missing characters if I don't realize something's odd with them, and as a professional translator I would face a lot of disproportionate hate over a typo or missing plural or something else like that.

Thats cool. Dell AT101/W's I assume? If they love SKCM Black just wait until they try SKCM Blue or Orange.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

Some time ago my best pal asked if I didn't have a spare keyboard, as he urgently needed something for his mum, a retired GP doctor. So I said LOL, okay, but it's gonna be oooold. There's a whole box of them old Dells, if a key doesn't work or something like that just come back and pick another one, just can't guarantee it won't be a particularly bad shade of yellow. He didn't come back, and the 'board supposedly is great. Also gave one of them to a Ph.D. student in literature and another to a coder. That means I should still have seven left. Ironically, while I appreciate the uncommon speed you can type on them with (compared to anything else, include blue Majestouch), I somehow can't use one myself. I worry about missing characters if I don't realize something's odd with them, and as a professional translator I would face a lot of disproportionate hate over a typo or missing plural or something else like that.

Thats cool. Dell AT101/W's I assume? If they love SKCM Black just wait until they try SKCM Blue or Orange.

Plain old black 101/202W's, yeah. Some preceding Win 95 (no Win key), some not, probably all of them at least 20 years old. I bought like 10 of them for 75 bucks or something, in Polish currency. I don't think I've literally tested them all, but some probably still have all keys in order. I once ordered blue Alps, from a fellow Geekhacker, but they didn't arrive. What a massive pity.

[Mattr567]

Some time ago my best pal asked if I didn't have a spare keyboard, as he urgently needed something for his mum, a retired GP doctor. So I said LOL, okay, but it's gonna be oooold. There's a whole box of them old Dells, if a key doesn't work or something like that just come back and pick another one, just can't guarantee it won't be a particularly bad shade of yellow. He didn't come back, and the 'board supposedly is great. Also gave one of them to a Ph.D. student in literature and another to a coder. That means I should still have seven left. Ironically, while I appreciate the uncommon speed you can type on them with (compared to anything else, include blue Majestouch), I somehow can't use one myself. I worry about missing characters if I don't realize something's odd with them, and as a professional translator I would face a lot of disproportionate hate over a typo or missing plural or something else like that.

Thats cool. Dell AT101/W's I assume? If they love SKCM Black just wait until they try SKCM Blue or Orange.

Plain old black 101/202W's, yeah. Some preceding Win 95 (no Win key), some not, probably all of them at least 20 years old. I bought like 10 of them for 75 bucks or something, in Polish currency. I don't think I've literally tested them all, but some probably still have all keys in order. I once ordered blue Alps, from a fellow Geekhacker, but they didn't arrive. What a massive pity.

Do any of them use SKCM Salmon?

[E3E]

Perhaps a better question would be if any are US made and have the original Dell logo on them as opposed to being made in Taiwan and and/or having the new Dell logo.

[Mattr567]

Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.

[jacobolus]

Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.

These are both from the Gold Star factory in Korea, right?

[E3E]

Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.

These are both from the Gold Star factory in Korea, right?

Yes.

[Venatorious]

I really really like the way that amber looks...

[Blaise170]

Is there a source for anymore of those switches? I just want one to add for my collection.

[jacobolus]

Maybe try to find a Korean auction site?

[CPTBadAss]

Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.

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What do they feel like?! So exciting . I would love to just try those switches out!!

[alienman82]

removed.

[jacobolus]

What do they feel like?! So exciting . I would love to just try those switches out!!

Seems like the linear ones should be like other linear Alps switches (are the springs similar to green SKCLs?) and the locking ones should be pretty much the same as other Alps lock switches.

[E3E]

Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.

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What do they feel like?! So exciting . I would love to just try those switches out!!

Well, the sliders for these switches have symmetrical notches on each side like all of the older linear switches and unlike SKCL Grey and SKCL Yellow.

Based on what I've tried, I'd say the switches weights go like this:

Green > Yellow > Brown & Cream (practically identical feel) > SKCL Grey & SKCL Amber.

There's also SKCL Heavy Green, which I just tried out and compared to the others. It seems to be around the same weight of Alps SKCL Brown and Cream.  Like Jacobolus said, the Brown SKCL Lock is pretty much just a normal SKCL Lock with a different colored slider.  They feel the same.

I think SKCL Amber (formerly known as taxi yellow) was known about though. I believe it can be found in some old SKCL Green boards as well.

[chyros]

Based on what I've tried, I'd say the switches weights go like this:

Green > Yellow > Brown & Cream (practically identical feel) > SKCL Grey & SKCL Amber.

Uhhh, I'm assuming you mean it the other way around? xD

[Mattr567]

Courtesy of E3E: Two new switches confirmed SKCL Amber and SKCL Brown Lock! Will be adding these to the wiki.

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What do they feel like?! So exciting . I would love to just try those switches out!!

Well, the sliders for these switches have symmetrical notches on each side like all of the older linear switches and unlike SKCL Grey and SKCL Yellow.

Based on what I've tried, I'd say the switches weights go like this:

Green > Yellow > Brown & Cream (practically identical feel) > SKCL Grey & SKCL Amber.

There's also SKCL Heavy Green, which I just tried out and compared to the others. It seems to be around the same weight of Alps SKCL Brown and Cream.  Like Jacobolus said, the Brown SKCL Lock is pretty much just a normal SKCL Lock with a different colored slider.  They feel the same.

I think SKCL Amber (formerly known as taxi yellow) was known about though. I believe it can be found in some old SKCL Green boards as well.

Where did you get the SKCL Heavy Grey from?

[alienman82]

removed.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

Do any of them use SKCM Salmon?

Hmmm… this is going to make me like a n00b (and for good reason), but I didn't actually check all of them. I simply assumed all of them would be blacks, as coming from the same source at the same price (post-leasing boards), and they felt exactly the same in touch all of them, but if they have different production years and slightly different layouts, they might as well use different switches too. Gotta check.

For now, as I recall, all of them have the new logo, while salmons should have the old.

[E3E]

Where did you get the SKCL Heavy Grey from?

It came from a practically new ADDS 1010 terminal keyboard, but I received only individual switches as I made a trade for them, trading some SKCM Blues out of a DC-2014 for them. 

The SKCL Heavy Green had "lipstick" on the rim of its slider, I suppose to denote that it was different. It was some sort of waxy pigment and has since rubbed off.

Here's the album from the original owner of the ADDS keyboard: http://imgur.com/a/vq9iQ

Uhhh, I'm assuming you mean it the other way around? xD

I meant from lightest to heaviest. These are from what I've tried, but I know there a few more esoteric linears that have very heavy weighting like the double action and the heavy grey.

Hmmm… this is going to make me like a n00b (and for good reason), but I didn't actually check all of them. I simply assumed all of them would be blacks, as coming from the same source at the same price (post-leasing boards), and they felt exactly the same in touch all of them, but if they have different production years and slightly different layouts, they might as well use different switches too. Gotta check.

To make it easier on yourself, just look out for the beige-cased ones with the OLD Dell logo on them. Out of these, only the ones made in the USA will have Salmon Alps. You can check this by looking at the FCC ID label on the back of the keyboard. 

[BlueNalgene]

Just finished my 60% with custom cut and painted plate.  Had to do some rework with hasu's pcb as the spacebar isn't supported.  Luckily it all worked out nicely:

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I like those caps.  What case is that?

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

Just finished my 60% with custom cut and painted plate.  Had to do some rework with hasu's pcb as the spacebar isn't supported.  Luckily it all worked out nicely:

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I like those caps.  What case is that?

ziptyze plastic 3d printed case

Now that I think about it, dude... If you could get a high profile case that's the same height of the blockers and colored in the same shade of grey, it'd give your keyboard a very sick retromodern aesthetic.

[alienman82]

removed.

[NightCabbage]

Quick question...

I'm thinking about buying either the PC version of  the Matias Tactile Pro or the Quiet Pro.

I like the idea of the Quiet Click keys not making massive amounts of noise, but I'm worried that the tactile feel of the keys would be compromised to achieve this.

How do I choose between the two, without having the chance to try them out?

Also, there are no other (full sized) keyboards on the market with ALPS-like switches, are there?

[need]

Quick question...

I'm thinking about buying either the PC version of  the Matias Tactile Pro or the Quiet Pro.

I like the idea of the Quiet Click keys not making massive amounts of noise, but I'm worried that the tactile feel of the keys would be compromised to achieve this.

How do I choose between the two, without having the chance to try them out?

Also, there are no other (full sized) keyboards on the market with ALPS-like switches, are there?

It definitely feel less tactile than vintage ones, say salmons and blacks which are basically the maximum tactility I can bear. Quiet clicks feels shallower and softer to type, which is pleasant in its own right. It feels bouncy to type on.

You really have to try them out for first hand experience, and vintage keyboards are a good way to do that, as you can sell them without losing much or even any money at all. It will takes more time than buying things off the shelf though.

[zombimuncha]

Quick question...

I'm thinking about buying either the PC version of  the Matias Tactile Pro or the Quiet Pro.

I like the idea of the Quiet Click keys not making massive amounts of noise, but I'm worried that the tactile feel of the keys would be compromised to achieve this.

How do I choose between the two, without having the chance to try them out?

Also, there are no other (full sized) keyboards on the market with ALPS-like switches, are there?

keyboardco.com will sell you individual Matias switches, with somewhat reasonable shipping from the UK. Then you'd just need to find a keycap or two from somewhere.

[njbair]

Quick question...

I'm thinking about buying either the PC version of  the Matias Tactile Pro or the Quiet Pro.

I like the idea of the Quiet Click keys not making massive amounts of noise, but I'm worried that the tactile feel of the keys would be compromised to achieve this.

How do I choose between the two, without having the chance to try them out?

Also, there are no other (full sized) keyboards on the market with ALPS-like switches, are there?

Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

To make it easier on yourself, just look out for the beige-cased ones with the OLD Dell logo on them. Out of these, only the ones made in the USA will have Salmon Alps. You can check this by looking at the FCC ID label on the back of the keyboard. 

I wasn't able to remove a keycap safely, but all of them had the new logo and GYU numbers (not GYI), so according to this, they should all be blacks. There is some difference in feel between older and newer ones. Newer ones are crisper but rougher, older ones more similar to newer Model M's and a bit thocky — or was it the other way round? Probably not enough to feel like a separate type of switch but not entirely the same either.

[chyros]

To make it easier on yourself, just look out for the beige-cased ones with the OLD Dell logo on them. Out of these, only the ones made in the USA will have Salmon Alps. You can check this by looking at the FCC ID label on the back of the keyboard. 

I wasn't able to remove a keycap safely, but all of them had the new logo and GYU numbers (not GYI), so according to this, they should all be blacks. There is some difference in feel between older and newer ones. Newer ones are crisper but rougher, older ones more similar to newer Model M's and a bit thocky — or was it the other way round? Probably not enough to feel like a separate type of switch but not entirely the same either.

The '97SK version came with pine black Alps which are MUCH better than the later bamboo ones used in the '95SK and '90SK. They're really nice switches, much closer to salmon and orange Alps than to bamboo blacks. It even includes a steel weight to make it heavier, which wasn't present on GYI Bigfoots nor on the '90SK.

Here's a video review I made on it:

[NightCabbage]

Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.

Oh that's interesting to hear!

So they make less of a click sound, but still have a good tactile feel to them?

[chyros]

Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.

Oh that's interesting to hear!

So they make less of a click sound, but still have a good tactile feel to them?

They make no click as they're actually tactile switches; the Quiet Click name is a poorly chosen, misleading name. Due to the way Alps tactile and click leaves work, tactile switches are less tactile than clicky ones. Matias appears to have slightly compensated for this, though.

[supamesican]

Got my fk-2001 with alps.tw Type T1 white alps clones. Holy crap they are nice! Not quite buckling spring nice but still even better than I was expecting.

[FoxWolf1]

Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.

Oh that's interesting to hear!

So they make less of a click sound, but still have a good tactile feel to them?

They make no click as they're actually tactile switches; the Quiet Click name is a poorly chosen, misleading name. Due to the way Alps tactile and click leaves work, tactile switches are less tactile than clicky ones. Matias appears to have slightly compensated for this, though.

Am I right in recalling that the Quiet Click switches are (more or less) a descendant of the old simplified black ALPS?

If so, I may have to pick up a keyboard with them sometime. Heard a few too many complaints about MQP quality relative to the price, though, and as someone who uses a lot of rollover, being limited to 6KRO is a pretty big turnoff. Ah well-- hopefully more manufacturers will adopt them in the future.

[chyros]

Buy the Quiet Clicks. They are wonderful switches, and I think they feel even better than the clicky ones.

Oh that's interesting to hear!

So they make less of a click sound, but still have a good tactile feel to them?

They make no click as they're actually tactile switches; the Quiet Click name is a poorly chosen, misleading name. Due to the way Alps tactile and click leaves work, tactile switches are less tactile than clicky ones. Matias appears to have slightly compensated for this, though.

Am I right in recalling that the Quiet Click switches are (more or less) a descendant of the old simplified black ALPS?

If so, I may have to pick up a keyboard with them sometime. Heard a few too many complaints about MQP quality relative to the price, though, and as someone who uses a lot of rollover, being limited to 6KRO is a pretty big turnoff. Ah well-- hopefully more manufacturers will adopt them in the future.

they're closer to dampened Alps than black ones. Dampened Alps aren't for everyone, but many still enjoy them.

Got my fk-2001 with alps.tw Type T1 white alps clones. Holy crap they are nice! Not quite buckling spring nice but still even better than I was expecting.

Some clone types are much better than others, T1 and OA2 are much closer in construction to real Alps than others, making them feel quite like Alps, just a bit lighter. I've found them to be pretty good .

[Mattr567]

I know this is a Alps thread, but I gotta say, worn in MX Blue stems in a old G80 w/ thin Cherry PBT is a amazing combo. I hate new MX. The stems are from a Ducky Shine 2, plus the orignal MX Browns were worn in as well, so the orignal contacts on top of everything are also worn.

Thin PBT makes the switches feel nice and light and lively, in a good way. I had to put in a couple new switches to fill a couple gaps (ended up putting them in the insert/end/pgupdown/ area so I will almost never use them) The difference is real, and I mean it. No 'vintage' black bull****. The new stems are quieter and feel much more dampened. Worse imho.

Or maybe Cherry's quality has gone down in the last couple years, who knows All I know is that this board feels amazing coming from what the normal expectation for MX is.

[KRKS]

Burn the heretic 

[Mattr567]

Burn the heretic 

Lol. But it is great. Funny how you have to go to such great lengths to properly enjoy MX. ALPS is always good!

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

Put some interesting non-sculpted cylindrical caps from a typewriter onto my Hammer Alps Eagle.  They're actually pretty pleasant to type on since the case has a natural incline, but it's just a shame that the mods don't fit with the profile.

[alienman82]

removed.

[S1llyC0ne]

Yes !


Yes yes !


Yes ! Yes ! Yes !

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[drevyek]

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Put some interesting non-sculpted cylindrical caps from a typewriter onto my Hammer Alps Eagle.  They're actually pretty pleasant to type on since the case has a natural incline, but it's just a shame that the mods don't fit with the profile.

I've been looking around for the different typewriters that used alps caps- which one did you harvest from? those caps are really attractive!

I've got an SGI case and plate and PCB, but no switches or caps I think it has an offset capslock, so I need to get a set with one, or else it'll be wonky as all hell.
I love the Orange Alps on my M0116, but sorta wish they were a bit heavier- are there any springs available for alps to make them a bit heavier?