Alps Appreciation Thread

[klennkellon]

You usually can almost always find some on Ebay at any given time, but Ebay is the most expensive option unless you get lucky and the seller doesn't really know what he's selling.

I'd love to try a good clean Blue ALPS board at some point. I've only tried White ALPS that were dirty and they felt like crap.

[Blaise170]

Constant? No. Seems more like some guy found an old storage container with them in it considering the condition.

[Wingpad]

It's awesome you got your stuff in, @Mattr. I'm a little bit worried about this whole Forward Electronics thing but I think it should be alright.

As for what I've been up to, I got an SMK Blue Alps-mount board yesterday and I'm looking forward to playing with that. I might try and design my own plate to make a 60% keyboard with them just for fun. I also have a Blue Alps board coming in today (DC-2014) and I'm going to start harvesting switches from it so I can build my alps64 board (I really hope my plate design works, it is still en route from Greece but it should be here this week. If it doesn't work I'm going to be a bit peeved with myself).

In a stroke of pure luck, I found a SIIG Minitouch in my dad's pile of stuff. I've been wanting one of these for a while so I got lucky here. Unfortunately, it isn't one with the "cool" switches because it has white alps clones for the alphas/numbers and clicky, yellow-slider alps clones for the function-key row. They seem to be pretty decent switches, although some of them have worn rather poorly. I'll post some pictures later if people want 'em. I might pull a couple of them out so we can look at the bottom of the switch housings, too.

All in all, I am committing to un-hack my wallet so I'm going to reduce my spending going forward. I tend to get obsessed with a hobby over a summer and go all out but I've already spent quite a bit on this one sooooo it's time for me to cut back.

[Blaise170]

Unless you just want to build your own, BlueNalgene is working on a combination SMK/Alps keyboard that will come in full size and TKL, plus you can use Alps keycaps from an AEK or similar.

[Wingpad]

Unless you just want to build your own, BlueNalgene is working on a combination SMK/Alps keyboard that will come in full size and TKL, plus you can use Alps keycaps from an AEK or similar.

Is that the Rosa? I am not married to the idea of building my own, I just thought it could be a fun thing to do. Guess that would be a helluva' a lot easier so I'd probably be in for an Infinity-esque Rosa PCB + Plate... I'll have to keep an eye on that.

[emdude]

As for what I've been up to, I got an SMK Blue Alps-mount board yesterday and I'm looking forward to playing with that. I might try and design my own plate to make a 60% keyboard with them just for fun.

Ooh, I'm very interested in seeing where you take this; guessing you plan to hand-wire this!

All in all, I am committing to un-hack my wallet so I'm going to reduce my spending going forward. I tend to get obsessed with a hobby over a summer and go all out but I've already spent quite a bit on this one sooooo it's time for me to cut back.

Haha, I feel the same way, I've only been in this hobby for a couple of months and already I've spent way way more than I probably should have. )

Once I finish up my current Alps builds, that will probably be it for me for a long while..
(Although I said the same thing before I got into Alps )

[Wingpad]

Ooh, I'm very interested in seeing where you take this; guessing you plan to hand-wire this!

That's what I was planning on doing, haha. That being said, I don't even know if I like the switches yet.

Haha, I feel the same way, I've only been in this hobby for a couple of months and already I've spent way way more than I probably should have. )

Once I finish up my current Alps builds, that will probably be it for me for a long while..
(Although I said the same thing before I got into Alps )

Well I've already had my Cherry phase and I'm on the tail-end of my Alps phase with a Topre board on the way so the only thing that's left is Buckling Springs. Aside from parts (keycaps, switches, plates, etc), I might get that i-Rocks Fun board just so I have a convenient way to put Artisans on Alps boards. Speaking of which, I guess I could get really into Artisans but I don't foresee that being a problem; I am more interested in usefulness/feels than aesthetics.

[E3E]

I'm quite surprised to see that Forward made SKCM Blues at all. It's pretty widely believed that White Alps took the place of Blue Alps but to see that Forward also made some could imply that:

• Blue Alps were actually in production later than we previously thought.
• Forward was helping Alps produce them when Alps was over capacity, which would be additional to Alps' other factories.
• Forward produced simplified versions of Blue Alps, which would be SKBM Blue.

Well, I can tell you that I've had two keyboards made in late 1989, my DC-3014 and KB101A, that have SKCM Blues. I haven't desoldered any switches to check if they have an FD branding on them, but I have seen a lot of variation on SKCM Blues in terms of spring color (goldish, stainless, dull) and switch plate color (grey, white), so I'm personally not all that surprised to see this, though it is nonetheless interesting.
 

Those Multistation caps are gorgeous, but I know there's no way to get anything resembling an ANSI layout out of them

You could make a pretty nice HHKB style set-up with a little modding, or you could stem swap some SA caps to fill out the mods to have a similar-ish profile.

They are almost certainly the same top scoop as the spherical Multistation keycaps; both seem to be substantially more scooped than the Alps “phoneboard” caps, or the various nearly flat spherical-ish and uniform profile keycaps used with SKFL boards. But not as scooped as some other keycaps I’ve seen.

The bottom row on the relevant Canon typewriters only has a spacebar plus 1 or 2 1u keys, which use the home row profile. The 1u keys are concave.

You can see the profile of the Canon typewriter caps pretty well in this picture:

Show Image

Alps phoneboard pic, for comparison, via https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81879.0

Show Image

Ahh yeah, I see what you mean. They certainly look to have a nice dip in the scoops. Where are the rest of those caps sourced from for your ergo build? Very nice.

[Mattr567]

It's awesome you got your stuff in, @Mattr. I'm a little bit worried about this whole Forward Electronics thing but I think it should be alright.

I mean the insides are exactly the same so I don't think they are going to feel any worse than Alps made ones. When I clean them if they feel any worse than the couple Alps ones I have laying around thats likely due to condition, they are absolutely disgusting. Today I did finish restoring and desoldering the SKCL Green's, squeaky clean! Now onto the SKCM Blues.

Those Multistation caps are gorgeous, but I know there's no way to get anything resembling an ANSI layout out of them

You could make a pretty nice HHKB style set-up with a little modding, or you could stem swap some SA caps to fill out the mods to have a similar-ish profile.

Plan is to cut the original Multistation plate and make a 60%. Dark wood case, SKCM Blues and handwire + teensy using TMK. Like what Yoe did with a M0118. The plate will be painted blue too

[Wingpad]

I mean the insides are exactly the same so I don't think they are going to feel any worse than Alps made ones. When I clean them if they feel any worse than the couple Alps ones I have laying around thats likely due to condition, they are absolutely disgusting. Today I did finish restoring and desoldering the SKCL Green's, squeaky clean! Now onto the SKCM Blues.

Show Image

Show Image

Fair enough, and ick, dirty alps are the worst.

Your greens look lovely, though. Those sliders are so vivid, it's awesome. For comparison, here are some of the ones I pulled from an old Wyse board (I still have no idea what I'm going to do with them):

(Sorry about the poor image quality)

Just out of curiousity, how pingy are those SKCL greens now that you've cleaned 'em? Even after cleaning all of mine are pingy, I'll probably have to lube the springs at some point or another...

[Mattr567]

Fair enough, and ick, dirty alps are the worst.

Your greens look lovely, though. Those sliders are so vivid, it's awesome. For comparison, here are some of the ones I pulled from an old Wyse board (I still have no idea what I'm going to do with them):

Show Image

(Sorry about the poor image quality)

Just out of curiousity, how pingy are those SKCL greens now that you've cleaned 'em? Even after cleaning all of mine are pingy, I'll probably have to lube the springs at some point or another...

SKCL Greens are just pingy, its their nature. It was hard to tell ping beforehand since a lot of them would get stuck in the down position. Never seen a Alps switch so dirty it stops working XD The ones that did work were effectively dampened by the dust so they got more pingy after cleaning I guess.

The SKCM Blues are in even worse condition but they will turn out well also. Just takes a lot of elbow grease.

[Blaise170]

I have about 100 brand new green switches that I desoldered. I originally put it in my brand new NeXT with Portuguese caps but for whatever reason the controller stopped working after swapping switches, so now I guess I might wait for BlueNalgene's GB or maybe put them in a different board. I've also had some really bad Alps clones, where there were 5-6 that would get stuck in the down position and not pop back up (they were clicky switches too). I have them in a bag, maybe I should see how bad they are internally.

[klennkellon]

Does the rough feeling of the later Black ALPS just have to do with the tactile leaf or are there other factors at play?

[jacobolus]

I think it’s a combination of the tactile leaf, contact leaf, and slider/housing interface. They started cutting costs on plastic, made simpler top housing geometry, etc.

Would be great to measure the detailed contribution of each component though.

[y11971alex]

Now hoping to get into Alps Blue (spot one on eBay for $60) and Monterey Blue (Taobao $20).

[chyros]

Does the rough feeling of the later Black ALPS just have to do with the tactile leaf or are there other factors at play?

I suspect the main factor is the tactile leaf tbh. Linear-modded black Alps are super smooth, as good as any Greens.

[henz]

OOOh i have a k108 in the mai with blue smksl, cant wait to try it out!

[fohat.digs]

Have any of you discovered the right lube for Alps after you clean and refurbish them?

I am going to do a complete take-apart soon and want a good lube. I am considering this DuPont unless something better comes along:

[Wingpad]

SKCL Greens are just pingy, its their nature. It was hard to tell ping beforehand since a lot of them would get stuck in the down position. Never seen a Alps switch so dirty it stops working XD The ones that did work were effectively dampened by the dust so they got more pingy after cleaning I guess.

Ah, duly noted. I guess I just never realized that's how they're "supposed" to sound. Unfortunately, I have seen Alps switches in that condition before. I have a bag of orange switches in a similarly disgusting condition.

Have any of you discovered the right lube for Alps after you clean and refurbish them?

I am going to do a complete take-apart soon and want a good lube. I am considering this DuPont unless something better comes along

I am curious about this as well, I bought some DuPont and I am planning on experimenting with it. It seems like not many people lube Alps switches but when you're doing restoration work on them you kind of have to, unfortunately (as I discovered with the aforementioned orange alps).

[E3E]

I have about 100 brand new green switches that I desoldered. I originally put it in my brand new NeXT with Portuguese caps but for whatever reason the controller stopped working after swapping switches, so now I guess I might wait for BlueNalgene's GB or maybe put them in a different board. I've also had some really bad Alps clones, where there were 5-6 that would get stuck in the down position and not pop back up (they were clicky switches too). I have them in a bag, maybe I should see how bad they are internally.

Did you use a pre-built converter for your NeXT board or what? Was it the ADB version?

Also, I think I found my favorite cap combination for my FMJ Alps Eagle:





Completely unshined and bold-faced -black- legend (I've seen blueish black and more faint legends on another set) SGI caps with Alpine Winter mods. Due to the Cherry stabilization, I've got to use caps with compatible stab mounts. I do have an idea for creating PCB-mount Alps stabs, but I haven't tried it yet since I don't really have the opportunity for it.
 
Next time I swap out all the switches on one of my Eagles, I'll try that idea.
 
But yeah, I think this fits the board better than the AT101 caps have:



Mattr, are the SKCL Greens actually that vivid chartreuse color or is that just a color inaccuracy with your camera?

[Magna224]

Did you use a pre-built converter for your NeXT board or what? Was it the ADB version?

There's a NeXT that uses ADB? I thought that they were some other protocol?

[E3E]

Did you use a pre-built converter for your NeXT board or what? Was it the ADB version?

There's a NeXT that uses ADB? I thought that they were some other protocol?

Yeah, I think there are NeXT ADB and Next Non-ADB boards. The ADB boards have the L-shaped Enter keys, IIRC.

Nevermind, I think the next generation of NeXT boards (that seem to also be rubber domes) were ADB. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KANJI-NeXT-ADB-Keyboard-RARE-NeXT-Turbo-Cube-Nextstation-Mono-Turbo-Color-NEW-/272279866799?hash=item3f65250daf:g:NjsAAOSwYGFUsQZF

[Blaise170]

Did you use a pre-built converter for your NeXT board or what? Was it the ADB version?

There's a NeXT that uses ADB? I thought that they were some other protocol?

I bought Hasu's prebuilt NeXT converter. The converter was still working but the keyboard wasn't so I'm guessing the controller got messed up in some way.

[Mattr567]

The Taobao SKCM Blues came out really great actually, the parts themselves are in great condition despite how disgusting they were. However the sliders are quite dry. That's the only thing holding them back from being as good as if not better than the few others I have laying around for comparison.

What lubes would be recommended?

[fohat.digs]

What lubes would be recommended?

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

I have been asking that question both here and on DT for years.

Probably the reason people are reluctant to speak out is because while almost any lubricant feels great initially, the long term effects might not show up for years.

My 2 personal bugbears are dust sticking to wet lubricants, and vehicles or solvents deteriorating plastic in the long-term.

[romevi]

What lubes would be recommended?

Spit.

[fohat.digs]

What lubes would be recommended?

Spit.

while almost any lubricant feels great initially, the long term effects might not show up for years.

[Mattr567]

Test driving the Multistation caps on my SGI Granite. So far liking them a lot! Very interesting to type on these. Can't wait to have them in a 60% w/ SKCM Blue. Right now on SKCM Orange they still feel great. Scopped homing keys > Line or dots.
Honestly they can be a pretty standard layout if you try.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Purp]

I found an Apple Keyboard in a college dumpster and from what I've read it has Salmon Alps. Later today I managed to grab my keycap puller and it's indeed an old Salmon Alps keyboard. The switches feel good (need some cleaning/lube) and ressemble Cherry Reds. I'm gonna take the board apart, clean it up and search the web for a compatible cable/USB converter, most likely next week. Let's see what happens!

[jacobolus]

I wonder how those multistation keycaps look when retrobrited.

[Mattr567]

Test driving the Multistation caps on my SGI Granite. So far liking them a lot! Very interesting to type on these. Can't wait to have them in a 60% w/ SKCM Blue. Right now on SKCM Orange they still feel great. Scopped homing keys > Line or dots.
Honestly they can be a pretty standard layout if you try.

Show Image

Show Image

this makes me wet.

Here you go:

[Mattr567]

I wonder how those multistation keycaps look when retrobrited.

Same. May or not do it. Think I will though.

[Blaise170]

Looks similar to my X68000s.

[Wingpad]

I got in my SKCM Blue boards today, the good news is that all of my switches are genuine, Alps-branded switches! The bad news is that none of them feel "excellent." While none of them feel particularly awful, when compared to well-preserved Blue Alps the difference is incredible. I isolated a bunch of them that I thought felt good to great; however, as soon as I compared them to my Leading Edge board, I realized even the ones that felt "good" were still scratchy as heck. I have done a bit of testing and sadly, most seem to have sliders-related roughness which might be "uncurable." In addition, the colors of the sliders have faded rather noticeably, with some bordering on an off-white and bluish color. I am going to continue experimenting with these and I'll post the results. I have some DuPont lube coming in and while I wouldn't want to do the injustice of ruining these switches with lube, it may have to be done for keyboard science.

[Mattr567]

I got in my SKCM Blue boards today, the good news is that all of my switches are genuine, Alps-branded switches! The bad news is that none of them feel "excellent." While none of them feel particularly awful, when compared to well-preserved Blue Alps the difference is incredible. I isolated a bunch of them that I thought felt good to great; however, as soon as I compared them to my Leading Edge board, I realized even the ones that felt "good" were still scratchy as heck. I have done a bit of testing and sadly, most seem to have sliders-related roughness which might be "uncurable." In addition, the colors of the sliders have faded rather noticeably, with some bordering on an off-white and bluish color. I am going to continue experimenting with these and I'll post the results. I have some DuPont lube coming in and while I wouldn't want to do the injustice of ruining these switches with lube, it may have to be done for keyboard science.

They look good compared to mine lol


Cleaning will do wonders for them. Mine feel so much better after cleaning. They just need a bit of lube on the sliders to make them as good as some mint ones I have laying around. Very curious about your results about the lube. Mine need them one way or another.

[Wingpad]

They look good compared to mine lol

Show Image

That was pretty much just a picture of the "good" ones I selected, the others look like yours.

So I did some experimenting to find out why the greens were so scratchy after cleaning. I took a extra good switch from my former Zenith and started swapping parts one at a time to find out what was causing it. Turns out the slider isn't the cause, which is great so I don't need to risk losing the lubricant by washing them. The causes were the top housing and the switch plate contact. So I took all the insides out of them and am going to wash all the tops in soap + water, and then thoroughly clean the switch plates. They should be good again  :thumb:

Cleaning will do wonders for them. Mine feel so much better after cleaning. They just need a bit of lube on the sliders to make them as good as some mint ones I have laying around. Very curious about your results about the lube. Mine need them one way or another.

You've probably already posted about this somewhere but I'm just asking again because I am lazy, did you end up cleaning the sliders or not? Also, potentially stupid question but do you have any tips about drying parts after you've cleaned them? I used my ultrasonic cleaner to clean some Orange Alps switches the other day and while it did a good job of cleaning most of the dust off, after the parts dried there were still little water/drying marks on them (most noticeably on the switch plates). I used distilled water so it is not like they are from a cleaning solution, it's just how the water dried. In any case, I'll definitely post back with lubing results when I get there.

[Mattr567]

They look good compared to mine lol

Show Image

That was pretty much just a picture of the "good" ones I selected, the others look like yours.

So I did some experimenting to find out why the greens were so scratchy after cleaning. I took a extra good switch from my former Zenith and started swapping parts one at a time to find out what was causing it. Turns out the slider isn't the cause, which is great so I don't need to risk losing the lubricant by washing them. The causes were the top housing and the switch plate contact. So I took all the insides out of them and am going to wash all the tops in soap + water, and then thoroughly clean the switch plates. They should be good again  :thumb:

Cleaning will do wonders for them. Mine feel so much better after cleaning. They just need a bit of lube on the sliders to make them as good as some mint ones I have laying around. Very curious about your results about the lube. Mine need them one way or another.

You've probably already posted about this somewhere but I'm just asking again because I am lazy, did you end up cleaning the sliders or not? Also, potentially stupid question but do you have any tips about drying parts after you've cleaned them? I used my ultrasonic cleaner to clean some Orange Alps switches the other day and while it did a good job of cleaning most of the dust off, after the parts dried there were still little water/drying marks on them (most noticeably on the switch plates). I used distilled water so it is not like they are from a cleaning solution, it's just how the water dried. In any case, I'll definitely post back with lubing results when I get there.

The green sliders were perfect it was the switch tops causing the friction there. The SKCM Blues is definitely the slider. I bet if I combined the SKCM Blues with the green sliders they would make for some amazing switches. I cleaned the sides of the sliders w/ rubbing alcohol but didnt wash the whole thing to preserve what lube it had left. I had to wash both top and bottom housings and also clean the switch plate w/ rubbing alcohol.

Even so the blue sliders still need lube, not much but a bit. I am thinking of some low viscosity lube that wont gum up and barley apply it to the sliders with a small paint brush or something. Kinda like what the factory did.

[chyros]

I refrained from buying any of these boards because I was confident there was absolutely no turning back from this amount of dust and dirt. I have a single blue Alps switch, and while it looks very clean, the difference between it and my KB-101A is night and day. I don't know why.

In a way, the fact that it's happening is good though, because the work you guys will be doing might help to further our understanding of these switches .

[fohat.digs]

In addition, the colors of the sliders have faded rather noticeably, with some bordering on an off-white and bluish color.

I wonder whether the color was not always inconsistent. Here is a Leading Edge 2014 (in decent condition) when I first opened it up:

[Wingpad]

I refrained from buying any of these boards because I was confident there was absolutely no turning back from this amount of dust and dirt. I have a single blue Alps switch, and while it looks very clean, the difference between it and my KB-101A is night and day. I don't know why.

In a way, the fact that it's happening is good though, because the work you guys will be doing might help to further our understanding of these switches .

I am doubtful as well but these boards were kind of an "eh, what the heck" kind of purchase for me. I figured I might as well get them to play around with them and see if I could discover anything interesting in the process.

I wonder whether the color was not always inconsistent. Here is a Leading Edge 2014 (in decent condition) when I first opened it up:

Hmmm, that could be the case; when I pull all of the keycaps off of my DC2014 I'll have to take a pic and do a comparison. The color variation in those sliders appears to be very similar to the color variation exhibited by these boards.

[CPTBadAss]

Mattr it's awesome seeing you clean up the switches because like chyros, the prospect of trying to get boards from TaoBao AND cleaning these switches up is insane to me lol. Glad you guys have been able to scoop so much SKCM/SKCL goodness.

I wonder though if it's time to get people at least trying out Orange SKCM, Salmon SKCM, and Dampened Cream SKCM. I really like Orange and Dampened Cream...and Click-modded Orange are nice. And they're a bit easier to find if you still want that vintage vibe. Diversity is always nice.

[E3E]

I refrained from buying any of these boards because I was confident there was absolutely no turning back from this amount of dust and dirt. I have a single blue Alps switch, and while it looks very clean, the difference between it and my KB-101A is night and day. I don't know why.

In a way, the fact that it's happening is good though, because the work you guys will be doing might help to further our understanding of these switches .

I'd never buy boards so dirty in hopes of using their switches in a project, haha. I once saw a board from TaoBao which showed a picture of the switch housing and it was caked with dust on every wall of the housing. No coming back from that unless you just take the major components of the switch type and swap them into better condition housings, say from an SKCM Orange board.

[Wingpad]

I wonder though if it's time to get people at least trying out Orange SKCM, Salmon SKCM, and Dampened Cream SKCM. I really like Orange and Dampened Cream...and Click-modded Orange are nice. And they're a bit easier to find if you still want that vintage vibe. Diversity is always nice.

Considering the skyrocketing prices of SKCM Blues we might be nearing such a point; however, I wouldn't say we're quite there, yet. That being said, I have been extensively experimenting with "diverse" switches lately. Linearised Blacks, Linearised Damped Creams, Click-modded Greens, Click-modded Oranges, Click-modded Damped Creams, Click-modded Salmons. Out of those, the Click-modded greens feel the best (they're so pingy, though) and the damped creams feel "squishy," almost like the spring doesn't bring the cap back up as quickly as it needs to. The others are OK, Click-modded oranges and salmons feeling pretty comparable and inferior to their orange counterparts; they are almost like Ambers. Nothing really competes with the feeling of my mint Blues, though, which is rather disappointing. I am still holding out hope that some TLC will restore these Taobao switches to such levels of greatness

[E3E]

Considering the skyrocketing prices of SKCM Blues we might be nearing such a point; however, I wouldn't say we're quite there, yet. That being said, I have been extensively experimenting with "diverse" switches lately. Linearised Blacks, Linearised Damped Creams, Click-modded Greens, Click-modded Oranges, Click-modded Damped Creams, Click-modded Salmons. Out of those, the Click-modded greens feel the best (they're so pingy, though) and the damped creams feel "squishy," almost like the spring doesn't bring the cap back up as quickly as it needs to. The others are OK, Click-modded oranges and salmons feeling pretty comparable and inferior to their orange counterparts; they are almost like Ambers. Nothing really competes with the feeling of my mint Blues, though, which is rather disappointing. I am still holding out hope that some TLC will restore these Taobao switches to such levels of greatness

Oh, Wingpad, you must've missed the peak of the Alps hype. It's already tanked quite a bit since then, but boards were regularly going for over $200 with peaks at $400 or so.  We're not seeing those prices at the moment, but I'm sure something in the community will flare up Alps prices again. Maybe SPRiT's Alps spring release.

I don't see that really doing much to drive prices up for blues alone, but it might bring more attention to Alps as a whole. BlueNalgene's Alps TKL is likely going to bring more heat onto blue Alps again though, no doubt. People are also going to need switch opening tools as well.

Ahh the economy that revolves around this community.

[Blaise170]

The Leading Edge that I just sold has wildly inconsistent coloring. Some of them are closer to a teal color while others are closer to a navy color.

[emdude]

I refrained from buying any of these boards because I was confident there was absolutely no turning back from this amount of dust and dirt. I have a single blue Alps switch, and while it looks very clean, the difference between it and my KB-101A is night and day. I don't know why.

In a way, the fact that it's happening is good though, because the work you guys will be doing might help to further our understanding of these switches .

Yes, this is by far the biggest caveat of Alps, and perhaps also that there is no modern source of SKCM/SKCL switches if you need replacement switches or parts.  And so the butchering of boards must continue..

@Mattr, Wingpad, you guys are doing great work, pleases do experiment with dry lubricant and whatnot; so far I have only heard of mixed results with using lubricant on Alps switches, but anything to advance our knowledge is helpful.

[dante]

Has anyone ever posed the question that if Zeal can get Gateron to make Zealios - maybe Matias could make Blue Alps?  I'm sure it's not a fair comparison.

[jbondeson]

Has anyone ever posed the question that if Zeal can get Gateron to make Zealios - maybe Matias could make Blue Alps?  I'm sure it's not a fair comparison.

Unfortunately no one wants to touch complex alps with a 10' pole due to the number of pieces in the switch plate (6 i believe).

[emdude]

I think it would take a miracle for that to happen..

The first step to replicating the SKCM/SKCL series would be to recreate the complicated switchplate, which would be a huge, huge hurdle in and of itself..