Alps Appreciation Thread

[mike52787]

haha I guess its all perspective, I thought that that was a great price for such a kit.

Well, to get back on track I will ask my fellow alps lovers a question: What is your experience with swapping dampened sliders into normal SKCM/L switches? I have 2 boards full of dampened white alps and Im not sure what to do with them, and I also have ~150 disassembled blue alps in really ****ty condition. I was thinking of putting together some hybrid switches with the parts, but not sure how it'll turn out.

Yea it's still a good deal, just not the right time for me

Still have a awesome Model M coming to me. Green alpha sublegends + industrial case?!

Wait, what caps are on your model M? AFAIK the only caps with green sublegends are the Wheelwriter Typewriter caps and the Displaywriter SSK caps. I have 2 sets of the wheelwriter caps, and they're great. The best dyesub on one piece caps Ive ever seen, and it has those cool looking sublegends, whats not to love?

[Mattr567]

Yea it's still a good deal, just not the right time for me

Still have a awesome Model M coming to me. Green alpha sublegends + industrial case?!

Wait, what caps are on your model M? AFAIK the only caps with green sublegends are the Wheelwriter Typewriter caps and the Displaywriter SSK caps. I have 2 sets of the wheelwriter caps, and they're great. The best dyesub on one piece caps Ive ever seen, and it has those cool looking sublegends, whats not to love?

Here is the picture from the listing It's a bit more than just a couple legends here and there like the wheel or displaywriter.

[E3E]

This thread should now be known as the capacitive buckling spring appreciation thread. 

[Mattr567]

This thread should now be known as the capacitive buckling spring appreciation thread. 

Sorry I derailed the thread )

[drevyek]

haha I guess its all perspective, I thought that that was a great price for such a kit.

Well, to get back on track I will ask my fellow alps lovers a question: What is your experience with swapping dampened sliders into normal SKCM/L switches? I have 2 boards full of dampened white alps and Im not sure what to do with them, and I also have ~150 disassembled blue alps in really ****ty condition. I was thinking of putting together some hybrid switches with the parts, but not sure how it'll turn out.

The issue is how Alps went about the damping. Contrast with Matias dampers, which stick out from the slider on both ends, the Alps bumpers are recessed into the slider. The way that the sliders actually do their job is by using a pair of slightly enlarged nubs at the bottom of the case, and slightly enlarged (I think, it is hard to see) pine slits on the top case. These contact the bumper, and damp the sound, but maintain full travel.

I am using orange tactile leaves inside of cream cases, and it works quite well. Main issue is the short switchplate. Unfortunately, that isn't something you can lose if you also want the elongated nubs on the bottom (general pine slits seem to work fine, as I'm using orange case tops). I experimented with soldering off the stands that the long switchplates stand on, but it is just uneven, and really doesn't help any. So, if you want to use damped sliders with a long switchplate, you sort of need to use Matias sliders.

This thread should now be known as the capacitive buckling spring appreciation thread. 

Sorry I derailed the thread )

Where's the "BS BS" thread?

[Hypersphere]

Tried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch

Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.

Welcome to The Enlightenment.

The IBM Model F XT was my first refurbishing project. I got the XT board for $19. It was in okay shape, but I went ahead and dismantled it, sanded and painted the barrel plate, installed a Teensy with Soarer's Converter, installed a panel-mount USB-B connector, programmed it to something like a HHKB layout, and replaced some of the keycaps with new ones from Unicomp.

The XT is my most solid keyboard and the capacitive buckling springs are my favorite switch. The layout is a bit strange, but I have made it work for me.

I like the Model F so much that I have the following boards waiting for me to refurbish them and where applicable mod them to an ANSI layout: F62 Kishsaver, F84 AT, F107, and F122.

On order, I have the Ellipse F62 and the lot_lizard et al. FSSK and full-size MF boards.

I also like Alps and Topre, but I consider Model F the greatest switch of them all.

[mike52787]

Tried capacitive buckling spring for the first time today, really good switch

Easily on par with SKCM Blue. It's amazing in a totally different way.

Welcome to The Enlightenment.

The IBM Model F XT was my first refurbishing project. I got the XT board for $19. It was in okay shape, but I went ahead and dismantled it, sanded and painted the barrel plate, installed a Teensy with Soarer's Converter, installed a panel-mount USB-B connector, programmed it to something like a HHKB layout, and replaced some of the keycaps with new ones from Unicomp.

The XT is my most solid keyboard and the capacitive buckling springs are my favorite switch. The layout is a bit strange, but I have made it work for me.

I like the Model F so much that I have the following boards waiting for me to refurbish them and where applicable mod them to an ANSI layout: F62 Kishsaver, F84 AT, F107, and F122.

On order, I have the Ellipse F62 and the lot_lizard et al. FSSK and full-size MF boards.

I also like Alps and Topre, but I consider Model F the greatest switch of them all.

wait... you have an OG kishsaver??? SELL ME THIS

[Hypersphere]

Yep. A "real" Kishsaver. It's not for sale at this time. Possibly never. I want to try my hand at refurbishing and converting it first, and I want to see how it compares to the "new" Kishsaver that I will be getting through the Ellipse project. I waited a l-o-n-g time for the Kishy, but patience finally was rewarded.

[mike52787]

Yep. A "real" Kishsaver. It's not for sale at this time. Possibly never. I want to try my hand at refurbishing and converting it first, and I want to see how it compares to the "new" Kishsaver that I will be getting through the Ellipse project. I waited a l-o-n-g time for the Kishy, but patience finally was rewarded.

haha yeah, It'll be the same with me and my never-ending hunt for an unsaver.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Hypersphere]

Yeah, I like a fairly steep angle on my keyboards. Those that don't have a built-in mechanism to raise the back of the board get self-stick rubber feet installed. To get height with a minimum of width, I use cone-shaped rubber feet.

[MandrewDavis]

Yep. A "real" Kishsaver. It's not for sale at this time. Possibly never. I want to try my hand at refurbishing and converting it first, and I want to see how it compares to the "new" Kishsaver that I will be getting through the Ellipse project. I waited a l-o-n-g time for the Kishy, but patience finally was rewarded.

haha yeah, It'll be the same with me and my never-ending hunt for an unsaver.

I saw an Unsaver sell on eBay a few weeks ago. $175 BIN with an XWhatsIt controller installed.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

Super clean SGI Button Box from Taobao. SKCL Grey LED https://world.taobao.com/item/520717221840.htm

[E3E]

Super clean SGI Button Box from Taobao. SKCL Grey LED https://world.taobao.com/item/520717221840.htm

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This is the same one that's been on there since forever ago. Same pictures. It's been sold since long ago.

[Hypersphere]

Just now finished putting a Leading Edge DC-2014 with SKCM Blue Alps back together, and I am typing on it now. The switches turned out to be in excellent shape, but the keycaps and case were the dirtiest I had ever seen. Underneath the grime, the case and caps came out looking almost new -- virtually no yellowing. I didn't need to do anything to the switches, except I replaced the slider from the spacebar switch with a damped slider from a Matias Quiet switch.

I've installed an Orihalcon/Soarer internal converter and a panel-mount micro-USB connector. The XT-like layout on the DC-2014 is not bad. With the oversized Right Bracket serving as Backspace and the PrtSc to the right of the short Right Shift as the Fn key, is is convenient to set up the board with a HHKB layout.

I cut a piece of "art foam" to fit snugly in the bottom of the case, using a cork borer to punch holes for the PCB standoffs and screw mounts. The foam helps to make the case sound especially solid -- it sounds like my IBM XT when I do a percussion test -- thumping the case with my finger.

The only change I might make is to replace the alpha caps with a PBT set. Although the stock doubleshot ABS caps look fine, I prefer the feel of PBT. Some folks say that thin ABS is the best keycap material to bring out the sound of Blue Alps. If thick PBT deadens the sound too much, I have a thin PBT set from an IBM P70 to try out.

[chyros]

Just now finished putting a Leading Edge DC-2014 with SKCM Blue Alps back together, and I am typing on it now. The switches turned out to be in excellent shape, but the keycaps and case were the dirtiest I had ever seen. Underneath the grime, the case and caps came out looking almost new -- virtually no yellowing. I didn't need to do anything to the switches, except I replaced the slider from the spacebar switch with a damped slider from a Matias Quiet switch.

I've installed an Orihalcon/Soarer internal converter and a panel-mount micro-USB connector. The XT-like layout on the DC-2014 is not bad. With the oversized Right Bracket serving as Backspace and the PrtSc to the right of the short Right Shift as the Fn key, is is convenient to set up the board with a HHKB layout.

I cut a piece of "art foam" to fit snugly in the bottom of the case, using a cork borer to punch holes for the PCB standoffs and screw mounts. The foam helps to make the case sound especially solid -- it sounds like my IBM XT when I do a percussion test -- thumping the case with my finger.

The only change I might make is to replace the alpha caps with a PBT set. Although the stock doubleshot ABS caps look fine, I prefer the feel of PBT. Some folks say that thin ABS is the best keycap material to bring out the sound of Blue Alps. If thick PBT deadens the sound too much, I have a thin PBT set from an IBM P70 to try out.

Starting to convert to blue yet?

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: Blue Alps are indeed quite nice, but they haven't as yet dislodged my other favorites, including capacitive buckling springs, Topre, or even Pine White Alps in the right board. It is difficult to isolate the sound and feel of the switch from the contribution made by the chassis. One of these days, I need to put Blue Alps switches in my favorite Alps chassis -- a Northgate Omnikey 101 ANSI board. This would be the supreme test that might trigger a conversion.

=====

Here is a pic of my LE DC-2014 showing how a full-size acrylic keyboard roof from Elitekeyboards fits perfectly to cover all the keys:



I took the pic at an angle that showed annoying reflections on purpose -- without the reflections, it is almost impossible to see the cover. I've been known to start typing when I've had one of these covers in place on other keyboards. The cover fits many contemporary keyboards and, not surpringly given its fit to the XT-like DC-2014, it also fits the IBM XT keyboard quite nicely.

 

[fohat.digs]

Today I finished an "endgame level" project that I have been contemplating for quite some time, and I did not end up doing exactly what I had originally planned.

A couple of years ago I transplanted blue Alps into a Northgate Omnikey 101 and it turned out really well. There were a couple of failed attempts on the way there, due to low-grade soldering skills and equipment, and I ended up trashing a couple of them in the process. That made for a great keyboard but perhaps less than perfect because the switches and caps did have a bit of wear and my soldering is not impeccable.

So, a few months ago, I got a great Omnikey 101 on ebay that is probably new, although it was sold as "used". It came from a gaming store and I suspect that it was only ever used little or none - it was immaculately clean throughout with no sign of use or wear whatsoever. The only problem was that there were odd stickers on about a dozen keys that were very difficult to remove.

I had a large collection of orange Alps in good condition which I cleaned ultrasonically and lubed with dry Teflon spray with the intention of doing a "creamsicle" (great name, whoever made that up) type mod from the top. But as I looked at the pieces that I had in front of me, I saw a pile of white sliders and top housings that were essentially new. So, rather than use the orange sliders that I had cleaned and lubed, I used only the tactile leaves and springs from the oranges and the near-new white sliders and housings.

I lubed the white sliders with light Krytox and a small paint brush, sparingly, only on the sides, and put them back together with out doing any soldering or any other "destructive" modifications to the original assembly.

So far, without long-term evaluation, this is a magnificent keyboard and immediately moves to the highest level of my personal pantheon.

I will report back later if it drops in its position.

[Hypersphere]

@fohat: So, you now have a hybrid Alps switch consisting of a White Alps bottom housing, White Alps switchplate, and White Alps top housings, but with Orange Alps tactile leaves and Orange Alps springs.

Are your White Alps top housings Pine (with slits) or Bamboo (without slits)?

The leaves are clearly different -- Whites are clicky and Oranges are tactile.

What about the springs? What is the difference, if any, between a White and Orange Alps spring?

Of all the Alps boards I have tried, my favorite is the Northgate Omnikey 101 (ANSI) with Pine White Alps switches. Although I like Blue Alps, I would prefer them in the solid standard-layout chassis of the Omni 101, but this would require desoldering two boards and soldering another. If a top-mod could create a Blue-like Frankenswitch, this would be great.

How does your Frankenswitch compare to Pine White, Orange, and Blue Alps?

[fohat.digs]

How does your Frankenswitch compare to Pine White, Orange, and Blue Alps?

The way I see it, I "re-created" an orange switch.

As far as I know, all the pine parts are the same except for leaves, springs, and slider color. I simply left the bases in place to avoid all the mess and uncertainty that goes with soldering and de-soldering 2 sets of switches, re-used the like-new sliders and top housings, and merely replaced the slightly heavier white springs with slightly lighter orange springs, and clicky leaves with tactile leaves. Plus lightly lubricated the sliders for good measure.

The result is a relatively light, very smooth, and quiet switch with good tactility. What more do you want?

[ShawnMeg]

Here are 2 of my AEK's.  The first is an AEK with oranges that I click modded.  The second is an AEK II with salmons.  I have a third AEK II with creams that I click modded and removed the dampers.  For all three, I either disabled the locking mechanism or swapped with the F15.  I remapped Capslock as CTRL, as I use a lot of CTRL + other key combinations.  I also swapped the D with the F as well as the K with the J keys as having the homing bumps on my middle finger drove me nuts.  I made a couple adb_usb adapters with a Pro Micro clone.  I like these three switches better than the whites on my Omnikey.

[Norman_the_Owl]

Since i got a second omnikey 101 in (woohoo! really clean, some internal damage) i decided to go through with modding my other one for sgi granite caps.

What color should i paint the plate? black? Grey? Silver? Should i just polish the steel and clear coat it? 

I'll also probably paint the plastic top, but let's see how the rest comes out first

[Hypersphere]

How does your Frankenswitch compare to Pine White, Orange, and Blue Alps?

The way I see it, I "re-created" an orange switch.

As far as I know, all the pine parts are the same except for leaves, springs, and slider color. I simply left the bases in place to avoid all the mess and uncertainty that goes with soldering and de-soldering 2 sets of switches, re-used the like-new sliders and top housings, and merely replaced the slightly heavier white springs with slightly lighter orange springs, and clicky leaves with tactile leaves. Plus lightly lubricated the sliders for good measure.

The result is a relatively light, very smooth, and quiet switch with good tactility. What more do you want?

Looks like we are both into recreational switch use.

What more would I want? Clicks! 

[Mattr567]

Damn these super high SKCM Green prices. Ever since that kid on /r/mk bought NIB ones for freakin $8 a switch people have been trying to sell them at ridiculous prices.

By that mertic E3E is a millionaire.

[XMIT]

Hypersphere, I believe I thought of the creamsicle term. I may not have been there first but I don't believe I ripped it off of anyone else. I believe that tall switch plates are an important component here!

I'm also trying to popularize Nopre for boards like Royal Kludge, Noppoo and Plum. Think: "Topre? Nope!"

[alienman82]

removed.

[drevyek]

Hypersphere, I believe I thought of the creamsicle term. I may not have been there first but I don't believe I ripped it off of anyone else. I believe that tall switch plates are an important component here!

I'd say that having the cream bases is really key in ensuring the damping actually works as intended. It sacrifices long switch plates, but it's a trade-off for superior damping.

Only way to do it otherwise would be to remove the stilts that hold up the short switch plate on the cream base, or use Matias dampers.

[Mattr567]

Retrobrighted my Tandem keycaps again. Got them pearly white finally The only side affect was that I decided to do over the Beige keycaps and bleached them quite badly. No loss since I was never going to use them. They only bleached after 3 rounds of retrobright so I can't blame them. The white's turned out great.

Here they are on my SKCM Amber FK-3001. They do change them feel a lot actually. The switches feel smoother with more plastic between your finger and the slider. These DS Tandem caps are made by Alps so they are superb. Not all the legends are perfect but they fit in pretty well if the stock Taihao caps aren't right next to them. The Taihao caps are slightly whiter, it's just down to the base color's are slightly different.


Spacebar I purposefully never retrobrighted

[E3E]

Retrobrighted my Tandem keycaps again. Got them pearly white finally The only side affect was that I decided to do over the Beige keycaps and bleached them quite badly. No loss since I was never going to use them. They only bleached after 3 rounds of retrobright so I can't blame them. The white's turned out great.

Here they are on my SKCM Amber FK-3001. They do change them feel a lot actually. The switches feel smoother with more plastic between your finger and the slider. These DS Tandem caps are made by Alps so they are superb. Not all the legends are perfect but they fit in pretty well if the stock Taihao caps aren't right next to them. The Taihao caps are slightly whiter, it's just down to the base color's are slightly different.

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Spacebar I purposefully never retrobrighted

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I warned you about the bleaching, my man. :P

I was about to ask you why you wiped off the lipstick off of your striped ambers, but then I realized they were SKCMs. :b

[Mattr567]

Retrobrighted my Tandem keycaps again. Got them pearly white finally The only side affect was that I decided to do over the Beige keycaps and bleached them quite badly. No loss since I was never going to use them. They only bleached after 3 rounds of retrobright so I can't blame them. The white's turned out great.

Here they are on my SKCM Amber FK-3001. They do change them feel a lot actually. The switches feel smoother with more plastic between your finger and the slider. These DS Tandem caps are made by Alps so they are superb. Not all the legends are perfect but they fit in pretty well if the stock Taihao caps aren't right next to them. The Taihao caps are slightly whiter, it's just down to the base color's are slightly different.

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Spacebar I purposefully never retrobrighted

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I warned you about the bleaching, my man. :P

I was about to ask you why you wiped off the lipstick off of your striped ambers, but then I realized they were SKCMs. :b

Lol. It was only on the beige keycaps, and after the 3rd round. It took some pretty extreme measures to cause it to happen, but lesson learned nonetheless. The white's came out perfect. No bleaching or stain's.

[E3E]

Lol. It was only on the beige keycaps, and after the 3rd round. It took some pretty extreme measures to cause it to happen, but lesson learned nonetheless. The white's came out perfect. No bleaching or stain's.

Yeah, any dark colors are very vulnerable to bleaching. I would never use the smother and wrap in plastic method since that's just asking for bleaching. Just coat them and wash them off. The plastic wrap isn't helping anything. With darker colors, if you want to be very vigilant, wash them off every hour to be sure the stuff does not dry. If RB dries on darker colors, it almost always leaves bleaching, especially if you're using a creme. 
 
Yeah, the whites and creams and pearls are magical with RB, but anything that dips into the greys and beiges and worse, blacks and dark browns, etc, will be very vulnerable.

Those caps were expendable anyway though. The 3K1 looks good, my man.  Good quality ABS to type on.

[Mattr567]

Lol. It was only on the beige keycaps, and after the 3rd round. It took some pretty extreme measures to cause it to happen, but lesson learned nonetheless. The white's came out perfect. No bleaching or stain's.

Yeah, any dark colors are very vulnerable to bleaching. I would never use the smother and wrap in plastic method since that's just asking for bleaching. Just coat them and wash them off. The plastic wrap isn't helping anything. With darker colors, if you want to be very vigilant, wash them off every hour to be sure the stuff does not dry. If RB dries on darker colors, it almost always leaves bleaching, especially if you're using a creme. 
 
Yeah, the whites and creams and pearls are magical with RB, but anything that dips into the greys and beiges and worse, blacks and dark browns, etc, will be very vulnerable.

Those caps were expendable anyway though. The 3K1 looks good, my man.  Good quality ABS to type on.

Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board )

Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course

[E3E]

Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board )

Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course

What do you plan on using the SKCL Greens for?

[Mattr567]

Now if I could get more SKCM Amber's to complete the board )

Also put together all the SKCL Yellow's today. Will start the SKCM Blue's soon. SKCL Green's after of course

What do you plan on using the SKCL Greens for?

Selling all of it. Need the money for SKCM Amber's and other stuff. I'm thinking about swapping the V60 with SKCM Blue though. Would need to take picture's of my hand wiring setup, and be careful. Then I would sell off it's SKCL Green's.

May or may not happen though.

[Mattr567]

Taobao Blue's today after ultrasonic. With a bit of teflon lube on the slider they feel great!

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

Taobao Blue's today after ultrasonic. With a bit of teflon lube on the slider they feel great!

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SO much work though...


just get a model F

I know :eek: I'm gonna sell them after I get them all back together along with the SKCL Green's and SKCL Yellow's and some MX Blue I have lying around. Should be a nice cash influx for other things. 400+ switch sellout :p

[Mattr567]

Fresh off the boat from Sweden. Alps SKFF, SKCC Side-Angled and SKCL Compact

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

Does anyone know how to wire up a Pingmaster for TMK? Have my hex file but idk hardware wise how to wire it up. Also what board should I use (teensy, arduino etc)

Looking at this idk what PD0 and PD1 is
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/converter/ibm4704_usb

[mike52787]

Does anyone know how to wire up a Pingmaster for TMK? Have my hex file but idk hardware wise how to wire it up. Also what board should I use (teensy, arduino etc)

Looking at this idk what PD0 and PD1 is
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/converter/ibm4704_usb

PD0 is literally Pin D0, just drop the P and you know what pins to solder to.

[Mattr567]

Does anyone know how to wire up a Pingmaster for TMK? Have my hex file but idk hardware wise how to wire it up. Also what board should I use (teensy, arduino etc)

Looking at this idk what PD0 and PD1 is
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/master/converter/ibm4704_usb

PD0 is literally Pin D0, just drop the P and you know what pins to solder to.

Oh

[atrere]

Does anyone know if Alps Plate Springs have the same pin configuration as standard Alps switches? I'd like to swap them into a board sometime.

[mike52787]

Does anyone know if Alps Plate Springs have the same pin configuration as standard Alps switches? I'd like to swap them into a board sometime.

nope, theyre a completely different animal. differently sized and the pins arent the same.

[E3E]

Does anyone know if Alps Plate Springs have the same pin configuration as standard Alps switches? I'd like to swap them into a board sometime.

They have the same spacing, and it seems like the same width on the pins, but it's rotated 90 degrees.



This is a special PCB gifted to me by Zefyr.

[Hypersphere]

@Mattr567: An easy but higher-cost option is to buy a Pingmaster converter from Hasu.

[Mattr567]

@Mattr567: An easy but higher-cost option is to buy a Pingmaster converter from Hasu.

Yea, I bought an adapter for my NeXT from Hasu. The problem then was with the figuring out the programming and changing the layout. Now though thanks to Hasu on his website there is a GUI version so creating a Hex file is a breeze. I'll pick up a Teensy 2.0 and I should be good for the pingmaster

[alienman82]

removed.

[mike52787]

@alienman82: