Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread (Read 2458500 times)

alh84001 · « **Reply #4900 on:** Mon, 26 December 2016, 15:12:40 »

Ah, I see. That means that that longer spring is actually in a slightly (more) compressed state when the switch is assembled.

Is there any sound difference between them? I have different sets of SKCM white damped and there is difference in sound between some of them, which could of course be down just to switch condition.

menuhin · « **Reply #4901 on:** Mon, 26 December 2016, 15:28:45 »

Two 'identical' SKCM cream dampened? Are they both from the same board? Or from the same model of board? If they're from SGI Granite or AEK II, I suspect those manufactured in Ireland and those manufactured in the US have subtle differences.

chyros · « **Reply #4902 on:** Mon, 26 December 2016, 17:08:45 »

The switch (back) to shorter, more tightly wound springs was one of the things they changed over the years. It shouldn't affect weight or travel significantly.

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4903 on:** Mon, 26 December 2016, 17:34:06 »

Quote from: alh84001 on Mon, 26 December 2016, 14:54:48

Interesting. How is there no difference in travel when using the same slider?

And does that mean you actually have parts to convert another linear switch to striped amber? I'd be interested in that

Well I have 3 extra switches. 2 sliders are ruined. One has a glued stem inside it and the other has been hollowed out inside so no caps fit. The final one is fine but is missing its paint. It got rubbed off. I used that slider in the spacebar switch since it looks like a SKCL Amber, and that mean's I have one whole switch that isn't messed up, and has it's paint still.

Quote from: menuhin on Mon, 26 December 2016, 15:28:45

Two 'identical' SKCM cream dampened? Are they both from the same board? Or from the same model of board? If they're from SGI Granite or AEK II, I suspect those manufactured in Ireland and those manufactured in the US have subtle differences.

All AEKII but idk if they are from the same exact board. I got them off ebay a long time ago.

Quote from: chyros on Mon, 26 December 2016, 17:08:45

The switch (back) to shorter, more tightly wound springs was one of the things they changed over the years. It shouldn't affect weight or travel significantly.

That make's sense. Just weird since shorter springs with more coils seem to be used more on linear switches like SKCL Green or Striped Amber. SKCL Yellow and heavy linear's use normal sized springs. But I do see how they just change it at will. If it is cheaper to make and feels the exact same who's gonna care?

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4904 on:** Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:30:21 »

They're all dead

Good thing I had extras. The Taobao Blue's are complete and 100% finished. 118 total fully tested with my multimeter. After the Taobao Green's are reassembled then it's all done

PollandAkuma · « **Reply #4905 on:** Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:32:05 »

Quote from: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:30:21

They're all dead
Show Image

Good thing I had extras. The Taobao Blue's are complete and 100% finished. 118 total fully tested with my multimeter. After the Taobao Green's are reassembled then it's all done :)

Can't wait to throw my money at you :p

mike52787 · « **Reply #4906 on:** Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:32:28 »

I pretty much gave up on my taobao blues, Its not really worth the effort to me. Im holding on to the parts still though, maybe some day Ill have the urge to do them, but for now theyre gonna stay in pieces.

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4907 on:** Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:52:48 »

Quote from: PollandAkuma on Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:32:05

Quote from: Mattr567 on Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:30:21
They're all dead
Show Image

Good thing I had extras. The Taobao Blue's are complete and 100% finished. 118 total fully tested with my multimeter. After the Taobao Green's are reassembled then it's all done :)
Can't wait to throw my money at you :p

Cool! :) After I get my SKCL Green top housing's from E3E ill put those back together and then i'll be good. They should not take nearly as much time since all the switchplates are already in the bottom housings, and no lubing is needed.

Quote from: mike52787 on Tue, 27 December 2016, 23:32:28

I pretty much gave up on my taobao blues, Its not really worth the effort to me. Im holding on to the parts still though, maybe some day Ill have the urge to do them, but for now theyre gonna stay in pieces.

Yea, I've sunk hours and hours into these. The amount of work i've invested overall in all of my Taobao switches is mind-boggling. Will be nice to finally have a return on that investment.

Although if I did it again I would know to Ultrasonic them from the start, which would have saved some time.

alienman82 · « **Reply #4908 on:** Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:48:57 »

removed.

PollandAkuma · « **Reply #4909 on:** Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:57:28 »

i can't find any alps from taobao, or is it just me

By Taobao blues you mean alps you got off of Taobao right?

PollandAkuma · « **Reply #4910 on:** Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:58:08 »

Quote from: alienman82 on Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:48:57

only buy new stuff on taobao, literally everything has had a problem from there if it's used at least in my order experience of 5+ orders

I just ordered a Model M from there, pray for it :/

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4911 on:** Wed, 28 December 2016, 01:17:20 »

Quote from: PollandAkuma on Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:58:08

Quote from: alienman82 on Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:48:57
only buy new stuff on taobao, literally everything has had a problem from there if it's used at least in my order experience of 5+ orders
I just ordered a Model M from there, pray for it :/

Model M's are much tougher than Alps, so you should be ok. At most it's a bolt mod and you clean the membrane. No lubing, smoothess or other issues related to grime like Alps can have.

Quote from: PollandAkuma on Wed, 28 December 2016, 00:57:28

i can't find any alps from taobao, or is it just me

By Taobao blues you mean alps you got off of Taobao right?

Yes. They are completely cleaned, lubed and tested though. Alps can come back from pretty much anything if you give enough effort like I did. Here's how they look now:

Your typical Taobao Alps board /s

Was this used in a coal factory? The only thing thats interesting in this board is that they used both Omron's and Alps SKCL Compact in the same chassis.

alh84001 · « **Reply #4912 on:** Wed, 28 December 2016, 02:48:50 »

@Mattr567 nice to see you have them finished. I'm in the same boat, but I'm much more lazy, so I'm doing it like 10 switches per day

The thing I hate is that upstroke click, which I get on many switches when reassembling them. At first i thought it's related to too much room for the click leaf, in case the top housing gets worn out, but then I disassembled and reassembled an orange switch, and I got the same click

And orange tactile leaf doesn't move inside the switch. From what I can tell, it turns out this sound is generated by tactile leaf being sprung out when the slider goes up, passes the leaf "hooks" and releases the leaf to hit it quickly. Why would this happen with a freshly reassembled orange switch is beyond me.

drevyek · « **Reply #4913 on:** Wed, 28 December 2016, 05:55:51 »

Quote from: alh84001 on Wed, 28 December 2016, 02:48:50

@Mattr567 nice to see you have them finished. I'm in the same boat, but I'm much more lazy, so I'm doing it like 10 switches per day

The thing I hate is that upstroke click, which I get on many switches when reassembling them. At first i thought it's related to too much room for the click leaf, in case the top housing gets worn out, but then I disassembled and reassembled an orange switch, and I got the same click And orange tactile leaf doesn't move inside the switch. From what I can tell, it turns out this sound is generated by tactile leaf being sprung out when the slider goes up, passes the leaf "hooks" and releases the leaf to hit it quickly. Why would this happen with a freshly reassembled orange switch is beyond me.

Paper mod it to kill the click. Not enough pressure on the bottom of the switch. If you fiddle with a Matias QC leaf you can see this happen very easily.

The leaves of the orange switches seemed to be perfectly fit on initial assembly. When you remove the leaves, things get slightly bent, and they may not fit in exactly (it could also be something Alps did on manufacturing the switches...). If you look at later tactile switches, there are little bumps at the bottom, to provide more force and keep the leaves tightly pressed (whether it works or not).

E3E · « **Reply #4914 on:** Wed, 28 December 2016, 09:49:02 »

I tried using the paper/tape mod for upstroke clicks on some SKCM Blues, and it won't work properly because it silences the click entirely, including the distinctive and desirable click that people identify with those switches.

drevyek · « **Reply #4915 on:** Thu, 29 December 2016, 07:50:53 »

I've not had a chance to try it myself, but you could try a few short pieces of scotch tape, but only on the bottom of the leaf. This would let the top click, but hold the bottom in. That would fix some of the issue.

For clicky switches, though, you may be stuck with upstroke click. Looking at how Alps clicky switches work, there may be an inherent click as the slider returns to the neutral position.

alh84001 · « **Reply #4916 on:** Thu, 29 December 2016, 10:04:30 »

I have some double-sided scotch tape, so I'll try with that. There is some inherent faint ping in clicky switches, but it's quite discernible from the click that occurs on the upstroke.

E3E · « **Reply #4917 on:** Thu, 29 December 2016, 10:55:24 »

Quote from: alh84001 on Thu, 29 December 2016, 10:04:30

I have some double-sided scotch tape, so I'll try with that. There is some inherent faint ping in clicky switches, but it's quite discernible from the click that occurs on the upstroke.

The majority of the ping in SKCM Blues definitely comes from the springs, just like the older linear switches. Lube would fix that right up. I only personally lube linear springs though. The ping of clicky switches kind of blends in with click in a nice way. I hate ping on the linear varieties of Alps though, so all of mine are lubed.

PollandAkuma · « **Reply #4918 on:** Thu, 29 December 2016, 12:15:51 »

What are some Korean boards/plates that are ALPS compatible? a B.face skcm blue board would be so appealing right now

alienman82 · « **Reply #4919 on:** Thu, 29 December 2016, 13:09:25 »

removed.

menuhin · « **Reply #4920 on:** Thu, 29 December 2016, 14:33:05 »

Eagle PCB from Duck Viper/Eagle kit is also Alps compatible, but also just the kit itself is $300+ and I'm not sure if the plate is Alps compatible.

Some makers, such as JackHumbert of Planck, claim to have plate designs that fit both MX and Alps. I'm not sure how effective such design can be.

The simplest and minimalist way is to go Hasu's way with a cheap used AEK / AEKII, given there's no backlit LEDs or underglow but a lot of users do not mind, and it's well documented with many build logs out there, e.g.

Hasu'w own log with DIY cut plate
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69666.0
Acrylic plate
http://imgur.com/gallery/N0n8I

I do love the idea of VE.A or Duck Viper, but that's easily going to be north of $600. And I need to reconsider my concept of worth of a single keyboard before I can finally make a move like this.

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4921 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 00:10:55 »

Just found this randomly, gotta be SKCM Brown right? It's basically a Japanese IBM 5140

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222159574420

alh84001 · « **Reply #4922 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 03:07:46 »

It's Alps (probably), but not SKCM/L. Refer to http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/html/note.html

childofthehorn · « **Reply #4923 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:14:40 »

Custom Alps (Matias QC) switch true HHKB-style 60% keyboard build. Will post the file for the keyboard plate on #Thingiverse soon.

Plate is Cherry Wood laminated (and lacquered/stained) on stiffer acrylic which was laser cut by myself with Costar stabilizers.

childofthehorn · « **Reply #4924 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:15:36 »

...doubled

mike52787 · « **Reply #4925 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:46:54 »

Thats a first for me, a wooden plate. Looks good though!

nathanrosspowell · « **Reply #4926 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 21:56:23 »

My first Alps build

mike52787 · « **Reply #4927 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 22:33:17 »

Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Sat, 31 December 2016, 21:56:23

My first Alps build

Show Image

Looks really nice! what switches?

nathanrosspowell · « **Reply #4928 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 22:54:04 »

Quote from: mike52787 on Sat, 31 December 2016, 22:33:17

Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Sat, 31 December 2016, 21:56:23
My first Alps build

Show Image

Looks really nice! what switches?

Matias quiet clicks (I didn't have a 'Matias' sticker :p )

ArchDill · « **Reply #4929 on:** Sat, 31 December 2016, 23:36:07 »

Quote from: childofthehorn on Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:14:40

Custom Alps (Matias QC) switch true HHKB-style 60% keyboard build. Will post the file for the keyboard plate on #Thingiverse soon.

Plate is Cherry Wood laminated (and lacquered/stained) on stiffer acrylic which was laser cut by myself with Costar stabilizers.
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image

Ahh glad to see someone else with an HHKB build in a Lambo case..

childofthehorn · « **Reply #4930 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 00:26:50 »

Quote from: ArchDill on Sat, 31 December 2016, 23:36:07

Ahh glad to see someone else with an HHKB build in a Lambo case..

Can't tell if joking or serious....

Also, need make another milled case off of my design here (first one didn't account for the plate height being higher with Alps) http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1187467

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

ArchDill · « **Reply #4931 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 01:45:04 »

Quote from: childofthehorn on Sun, 01 January 2017, 00:26:50

Quote from: ArchDill on Sat, 31 December 2016, 23:36:07

Ahh glad to see someone else with an HHKB build in a Lambo case..
Show Image

Can't tell if joking or serious....

Also, need make another milled case off of my design here (first one didn't account for the plate height being higher with Alps) http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1187467

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Being serious!
Mine is not Alps and I have Skeletor on it now instead of WoB.

PollandAkuma · « **Reply #4932 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 10:15:57 »

Quote from: childofthehorn on Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:14:40

Custom Alps (Matias QC) switch true HHKB-style 60% keyboard build. Will post the file for the keyboard plate on #Thingiverse soon.

Plate is Cherry Wood laminated (and lacquered/stained) on stiffer acrylic which was laser cut by myself with Costar stabilizers.
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image

Blue Sadster???

mike52787 · « **Reply #4933 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 10:18:29 »

Quote from: PollandAkuma on Sun, 01 January 2017, 10:15:57

Quote from: childofthehorn on Sat, 31 December 2016, 19:14:40
Custom Alps (Matias QC) switch true HHKB-style 60% keyboard build. Will post the file for the keyboard plate on #Thingiverse soon.

Plate is Cherry Wood laminated (and lacquered/stained) on stiffer acrylic which was laser cut by myself with Costar stabilizers.
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image
Show Image

Blue Sadster???

A novelty from the alpine winter set.

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4934 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:47:34 »

Very interesting to see that some of these early black switchplates have heated treated metal contacts. These samples come from SKCL Greens from a IBM Multistation with a 1984 date stamp. It is possible that some of these switches were made in 1983, which is the first production year of the SKCL/SKCM series.

Normal switchplate:

Rainbow switchplate:

alienman82 · « **Reply #4935 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:48:36 »

removed.

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4936 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 18:03:32 »

Quote from: alienman82 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:48:36

hey guys! appreciate this!

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5lhzxk/skcm_brown_alps_vea_build_mont_blanc_level/

Wow, nice man. Gotta clean those AEK caps though!

alienman82 · « **Reply #4937 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 18:12:35 »

removed.

chyros · « **Reply #4938 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 19:32:38 »

Quote from: Mattr567 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:47:34

Very interesting to see that some of these early black switchplates have heated treated metal contacts. These samples come from SKCL Greens from a IBM Multistation with a 1984 date stamp. It is possible that some of these switches were made in 1983, which is the first production year of the SKCL/SKCM series.

Normal switchplate:
Show Image

Rainbow switchplate:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Nice, that's a cool find!

It's fun to see how so many older keyboards had heat-treated parts and they gradually ALL got phased out xD . Isn't it the contact foil though, rather than the terminal?

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4939 on:** Sun, 01 January 2017, 19:49:52 »

Quote from: chyros on Sun, 01 January 2017, 19:32:38

Quote from: Mattr567 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:47:34
Very interesting to see that some of these early black switchplates have heated treated metal contacts. These samples come from SKCL Greens from a IBM Multistation with a 1984 date stamp. It is possible that some of these switches were made in 1983, which is the first production year of the SKCL/SKCM series.

Normal switchplate:
Show Image

Rainbow switchplate:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Nice, that's a cool find! It's fun to see how so many older keyboards had heat-treated parts and they gradually ALL got phased out xD . Isn't it the contact foil though, rather than the terminal?

Thats what I meant

I wonder if this is a feature of SKCCs since they mainly used black switchplates.

So only super early (1983?) SKCL's have rainbow switchplates, and around 1984 they switched to normal plates and not too soon after that they switched to the much more common Grey plates.

klennkellon · « **Reply #4940 on:** Mon, 02 January 2017, 02:43:55 »

Does anyone know of a common and cheap dome-with-slider that is Alps mount? I just need a cheap Alps set, anything will do.

chyros · « **Reply #4941 on:** Mon, 02 January 2017, 03:54:23 »

Quote from: klennkellon on Mon, 02 January 2017, 02:43:55

Does anyone know of a common and cheap dome-with-slider that is Alps mount? I just need a cheap Alps set, anything will do.

Alps dws, Acer dws, Matsu****a dws, Tulip dws, Monterey dws, Scorpius dws (some)...

menuhin · « **Reply #4942 on:** Mon, 02 January 2017, 04:54:06 »

Quote from: alienman82 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:48:36

hey guys! appreciate this!

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5lhzxk/skcm_brown_alps_vea_build_mont_blanc_level/

My dream build..!
And thanks for the build log with so many tiny tips, it is going to be very helpful guide for building an Alps VE.A.

Wait... you have a lathe??!

You can make so many cool things with a lathe, please make good use of it.

menuhin · « **Reply #4943 on:** Mon, 02 January 2017, 05:11:32 »

Quote from: Mattr567 on Sun, 01 January 2017, 17:47:34

Very interesting to see that some of these early black switchplates have heated treated metal contacts. These samples come from SKCL Greens from a IBM Multistation with a 1984 date stamp. It is possible that some of these switches were made in 1983, which is the first production year of the SKCL/SKCM series.

Normal switchplate:
Show Image

Rainbow switchplate:
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

What are good about heat-treated metal for switch components?
I just know that metal work, e.g. razors 60+ years ago from Sheffield, Eskilstuna, Solingen, Japan etc are of much higher qualities than those created nowadays.

Hak Foo · « **Reply #4944 on:** Mon, 02 January 2017, 11:53:47 »

Quote from: chyros on Mon, 02 January 2017, 03:54:23

Quote from: klennkellon on Mon, 02 January 2017, 02:43:55
Does anyone know of a common and cheap dome-with-slider that is Alps mount? I just need a cheap Alps set, anything will do.
Alps dws, Acer dws, Matsu****a dws, Tulip dws, Monterey dws, Scorpius dws (some)...

One thing you have to worry about is stabilizers. They aren't necessarily the conventional type.

For example, the ones on the Acer 6511 I took apart are more like Model M stabilizers-- hook on the plate, stabilizer wire attached to cap-- than Alps boards.

Probably the premium dome-with-slider choice is *SOME* Apple Design keyboards-- ALPS-mount, dyesub PBT caps, in a more or less conventional 103-with-stepped-lock-key layout. Note not ALL ADKs are ALPS mount; there were 3 or 4 suppliers.

nastrovje · « **Reply #4945 on:** Thu, 05 January 2017, 19:12:46 »

So I was able to try an omnikey101 with white alps and an 102 with blue alps.
They both feel the same. What am I doing wrong? Why are people going crazy about blue but disregard white?
I have read that the difference comes from late white alps being worse but in this case I dont seem to notice anything.

Mattr567 · « **Reply #4946 on:** Thu, 05 January 2017, 23:50:23 »

Quote from: nastrovje on Thu, 05 January 2017, 19:12:46

So I was able to try an omnikey101 with white alps and an 102 with blue alps.
They both feel the same. What am I doing wrong? Why are people going crazy about blue but disregard white?
I have read that the difference comes from late white alps being worse but in this case I dont seem to notice anything.

The Omnikey chassis makes a lot of switches feel a lot better than they usually are.

Also those switches might need to be cleaned. They are better, I know this for sure. Between my FK-3001 and Packard Bell.

klennkellon · « **Reply #4947 on:** Fri, 06 January 2017, 04:17:40 »

iwantatrophy · « **Reply #4948 on:** Fri, 06 January 2017, 10:14:56 »

A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.

alienman82 · « **Reply #4949 on:** Fri, 06 January 2017, 10:29:23 »

removed.


~~IBM M13 black~~	NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)	HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT

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Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread (Read 2458500 times)