Author Topic: Alps Appreciation Thread  (Read 2458656 times)

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Offline chyros

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4950 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 10:37:39 »
Which is a shame, SMKs are excellent.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline iwantatrophy

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4951 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 11:16:56 »
A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.

someone had an IC for an SMK pcb but it doesn't exist.

No to every question

Well ****.

Thanks for the reply though.

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4952 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 11:36:38 »
Actually, thats not true at all. SMK montereys fit in cherry plates. Im currently working on a project that utilizes that. 

Offline alienman82

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4953 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 12:09:10 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 13:25:38 by alienman82 »

Offline iwantatrophy

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4954 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 12:18:58 »
Actually, thats not true at all. SMK montereys fit in cherry plates. Im currently working on a project that utilizes that.

I thought the pins were different.

Do you have some progress pics?

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4955 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 13:41:44 »
Yeah, the pins are different, but the switches clip into the plate just fine. Its a hand wired project, more of a proof of concept than anything fancy. for that reason I havent taken any photos.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4956 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 17:25:41 »
Yeah, the pins are different, but the switches clip into the plate just fine. Its a hand wired project, more of a proof of concept than anything fancy. for that reason I havent taken any photos.

SMK are the ones with three pins on the bottom correct? If you're handwiring, which two pins do you need to use?
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Offline chyros

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4957 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 17:40:37 »
Yeah, the pins are different, but the switches clip into the plate just fine. Its a hand wired project, more of a proof of concept than anything fancy. for that reason I havent taken any photos.

SMK are the ones with three pins on the bottom correct? If you're handwiring, which two pins do you need to use?
No, SMKs have a two-pin pinout. You may be thinking of Omrons.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4958 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 18:48:14 »
Did anyone else notice that were on page 100? :)
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4959 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 19:33:49 »
Did anyone else notice that were on page 100? :)
Impressive! this thread has always been active, so it was only a matter of time. This must be the most active thread with the fewest participants on the site!

Offline alienman82

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4960 on: Fri, 06 January 2017, 23:38:38 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 13:25:33 by alienman82 »

Offline MperorM

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4961 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 05:37:52 »
Don't worry. When I get my first alps board in a few days, there'll be one more convert. Slowly but surely, alps shall conquer the market.
Leopold fc980c with korean keycaps

KBParadise v80 with blank and original keycaps - FOR SALE

Offline chyros

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4962 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 06:49:48 »
Don't worry. When I get my first alps board in a few days, there'll be one more convert. Slowly but surely, alps shall conquer the market.
Alps will conquer everything. Hmmm. Excellent. *twiddles fingers*
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline menuhin

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4963 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 12:56:06 »
A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.

someone had an IC for an SMK pcb but it doesn't exist.

No to every question

Well ****.

Thanks for the reply though.

Incompatibility is perhaps good news for SMK (whole) keyboards collectors though.
Wishlist: 1) nice thick Alps caps; 2) Cherry profile POM;
More
Wishful-list: 1) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 2) usable Trackpoint module for all keyboards
IBM M13 black
NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline mike52787

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4964 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 14:05:14 »
A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.

someone had an IC for an SMK pcb but it doesn't exist.

No to every question

Well ****.

Thanks for the reply though.

Incompatibility is perhaps good news for SMK (whole) keyboards collectors though.
unfortunately, most whole SMK boards are rather badly built, so you're better off desoldering them. example: chicony kb-5181 and 5191

Offline menuhin

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4965 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 19:10:44 »

A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.

someone had an IC for an SMK pcb but it doesn't exist.

No to every question

Well ****.

Thanks for the reply though.

Incompatibility is perhaps good news for SMK (whole) keyboards collectors though.
[/spoiler]
unfortunately, most whole SMK boards are rather badly built, so you're better off desoldering them. example: chicony kb-5181 and 5191

Really.
We should stop these (the existence of these products) from happening at the stage when they were still in the factory or the R&D department.
All half-assed products (in terms of design or build) should not be allowed to be produced.
They are just a waste of resources, and will be bad for the countries that manufacture them and the consumers who buy them.

Being extra critical to improve a design at its R&D stage, especially when the design is from people who can mass produce lots of crap, is actually trying to be green and be nice to mother planet earth.
Wishlist: 1) nice thick Alps caps; 2) Cherry profile POM;
More
Wishful-list: 1) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 2) usable Trackpoint module for all keyboards
IBM M13 black
NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4966 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 19:56:56 »
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.

SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)

Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline menuhin

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4967 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:24:17 »
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.

SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)

So you don't like the IBM 5556 Multistation keyboards? They look as cool as the Model F battleship.
Or those 5556 are impossible to convert?
Wishlist: 1) nice thick Alps caps; 2) Cherry profile POM;
More
Wishful-list: 1) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 2) usable Trackpoint module for all keyboards
IBM M13 black
NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4968 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:30:17 »
Just upgraded my Orion's plate to carbon fiber with a special touch.  ;D



I have one more plate that I plan on using for my Mira prototype and then the steel plate from the Orion will go into another TKL I build with an Alphas PCB in the future. My two babies with hotswappable PCBs will have the carbon.

Thanks Angelo. :D

Offline chyros

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4969 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:31:44 »
All half-assed products (in terms of design or build) should not be allowed to be produced.
This would halt >99.9% of all keyboard production in the entire world :p . Arguably the entirety of it xD .
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline alienman82

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4970 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:38:43 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 13:25:31 by alienman82 »

Offline menuhin

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4971 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:41:52 »
Just upgraded my Orion's plate to carbon fiber with a special touch.  ;D

Show Image


I have one more plate that I plan on using for my Mira prototype and then the steel plate from the Orion will go into another TKL I build with an Alphas PCB in the future. My two babies with hotswappable PCBs will have the carbon.

Thanks Angelo. :D

Looks really good, thanks also to Yutski for the plate file.  Perfect username for the cutout.

It's like a cool company logo for E3E.
Which is more difficult to cut by the way? Carbon fibre or stainless steel? And which is more pleasant to use?
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:45:40 by menuhin »
Wishlist: 1) nice thick Alps caps; 2) Cherry profile POM;
More
Wishful-list: 1) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 2) usable Trackpoint module for all keyboards
IBM M13 black
NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4972 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:44:51 »
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.

SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)

So you don't like the IBM 5556 Multistation keyboards? They look as cool as the Model F battleship.
Or those 5556 are impossible to convert?

No, I got one that was absolutely destroyed and used it for parts.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline menuhin

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  • Location: Germany
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4973 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 20:51:00 »
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.

SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)

So you don't like the IBM 5556 Multistation keyboards? They look as cool as the Model F battleship.
Or those 5556 are impossible to convert?

No, I got one that was absolutely destroyed and used it for parts.

Let it re-live in your V60 then. Peace!

I really like the battleship (Model M / F), but because I can't stand the echoing ping noise, I can only accept its Alps and rubber-dome or other switches counterparts, e.g. the 5556 which has even 1 more F-key row than the Northgate OmniKey Ultra.
« Last Edit: Sat, 07 January 2017, 21:08:29 by menuhin »
Wishlist: 1) nice thick Alps caps; 2) Cherry profile POM;
More
Wishful-list: 1) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 2) usable Trackpoint module for all keyboards
IBM M13 black
NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4974 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 21:58:42 »
Bought another V60 Alps board to replace my broken one. Going to put the SKCM Ambers into it. Will be extra careful desoldering it. Have a lot more skill and tools than last time like a year ago. I sold the SKCL Green that used to be in my old one. So the Alps LED project is therefore dead, and the FK-3001 is going back to full SKCM White. I do need a few extra switches though, anyone have any White Alps they could spare? I cannibalized a couple to repair other switches.

SKCM Amber + IBM Multistation sphericals ;)

So you don't like the IBM 5556 Multistation keyboards? They look as cool as the Model F battleship.
Or those 5556 are impossible to convert?

No, I got one that was absolutely destroyed and used it for parts.

Let it re-live in your V60 then. Peace!

I really like the battleship (Model M / F), but because I can't stand the echoing ping noise, I can only accept its Alps and rubber-dome or other switches counterparts, e.g. the 5556 which has even 1 more F-key row than the Northgate OmniKey Ultra.

I love ping and echo. Sounds badass when typing, makes it sound like real work is getting done.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4975 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 21:59:42 »
So I need 8 SKCM Whites, anyone? Will pay.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4976 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 22:47:25 »
Just upgraded my Orion's plate to carbon fiber with a special touch.  ;D

Show Image


I have one more plate that I plan on using for my Mira prototype and then the steel plate from the Orion will go into another TKL I build with an Alphas PCB in the future. My two babies with hotswappable PCBs will have the carbon.

Thanks Angelo. :D

Looks really good, thanks also to Yutski for the plate file.  Perfect username for the cutout.

It's like a cool company logo for E3E.
Which is more difficult to cut by the way? Carbon fibre or stainless steel? And which is more pleasant to use?

Steel for sure is the easier one to GET cut, thanks to the wonderful lasergist. I had to contact a waterjet cutter for this and we ran into a lot of delamination issues. Router CNC machines are best for carbon fiber, we learned.

Unlike the plates I used for my two Duck Eagle-based builds with the Hammer and FMJ cases, which were 1.5mm, this plate was thinner and seemed to match the thickness of the Orion's steel Alps plate.

I'd say the carbon fiber definitely feels more pleasant, both in sound and feel compared to steel and the 1.5mm CF. The thicker stuff is too rigid, but I think this is just right. I had this carbon fiber laid up custom from Composite Envisions. It's called Blue Mirage, which is pretty much a blend of carbon fiber and copper strands that were colored blue. The effect isn't as mesmerising as it looks on their website, but it's still pretty neat.


Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4977 on: Sat, 07 January 2017, 23:45:20 »
That E3E logo looks awesome! Adds a special touch.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline Mattr567

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  • Location: SoCal
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4978 on: Sun, 08 January 2017, 00:18:24 »
Let it re-live in your V60 then. Peace!

Oh yea here is a picture of it ''reliving" was even using SKCL Green at this point like the original did.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline Spaceman1200

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4979 on: Sun, 08 January 2017, 08:52:36 »
So I need 8 SKCM Whites, anyone? Will pay.

If you still need 'em by the end of the week, shoot me a pm, I'm tearing into a fk-2001 with a bad controller and i can spare you a numpad portion of switches, i'll work with you on the price
And just to make sure you need clicky whites?
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 January 2017, 11:23:52 by Spaceman1200 »

Offline Dokyun

  • Posts: 19
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4980 on: Sun, 08 January 2017, 12:02:11 »
A quick question : Can I make a Monterey Blue build with cherry/costar styled stabs? Also, are monterey's compatible with the open-source plates? I have yet to see a single custom Monterey Blue build.

There was a monterey custom at the /r/mk Seattle meetup yesterday:

157155-0


Offline alienman82

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4981 on: Sun, 08 January 2017, 13:50:05 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 13:25:30 by alienman82 »

Offline MandrewDavis

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4982 on: Mon, 09 January 2017, 21:54:14 »
Haven't been too active as my house is being remodeled, all my boards are packed up, and school started up again but I saw a real neat project on Reddit today. Has an 1800-esque layout without the function row and includes Alps support.

BTW I'm selling an Alps-mount Monterey SMK board if anyone is interested.
I've come to view humanity as predominantly monkey business.

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Offline E3E

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4983 on: Tue, 10 January 2017, 22:24:33 »
Finally got my CIE Terminals keyboards today from Russia (with love), two of them. These boards have dyesub PBT spherical caps from Alps Electric with very very sharp and clean, deep dyesub printing on them.



After a thorough cleaning in the ultra sonic cleaner for both sets, they were ready to be played with. :D

I first put them on my Orion v2, but the angle on the board is such that the spherical caps are too high to be comfortable.



I was just playing around with them on the Orion.

After that, I placed one on a DocuTech, and I realized that these caps are like a match made in heaven for Alps SKCM Green and likely SKCM Brown too. They just really blend well with the tactile feedback and weight of those unique switches. 
 
So I slapped the entire set (as much as I could) on my Xerox 6085. I picked the 6085 with pine SKCM Greens because it was the "different" out of my other Xerox boards since it's technically not a docutech.

It looks and feels great. 







If I can get a converter made for the Xerox boards, this would be a daily driver for sure.
 
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 January 2017, 22:28:18 by E3E »

Offline MperorM

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4984 on: Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:17:27 »
so my first alps (fuhua click, so the closest I could easily get ;)) board just arrived. Oh my god does this keyboard feel great. it's so deep and tactile. I must say I expected it to be louder than it is. To be fair my old keyboard was the lingbao linguani (I think it's called) which is notoriously loud  :D Also the ping is louder than I expected it to be. Not sure if I find that to be a bad or a good thing though. I guess the clicking mechanism, is what causes this?

However, I am not able to easily remove a keycap. I tried using one of the cheap and small keycap pullers, and even when I was using much more force than I would on a normal cherry mx keyboard, I was not able to remove a keycap. I was afraid of pulling with more force than that, since I don't want to break it for some stupid reason. Is this normal for alp stems, or is there something obvious I am missing?
Leopold fc980c with korean keycaps

KBParadise v80 with blank and original keycaps - FOR SALE

Offline chyros

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4985 on: Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:19:16 »
Alps mount is extremely stiff out of the factory. Subsequent pulls won't be as bad, but the first time is pretty hard. Use wire pullers.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline MperorM

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4986 on: Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:26:43 »
I don't own a wirepuller, can I do it with a normal one, or will I risk damaging the stems? I can order one fairly cheaply from china, it's just gonna take a month for it to arrive. I would prefer replacing my keycaps right away.
Leopold fc980c with korean keycaps

KBParadise v80 with blank and original keycaps - FOR SALE

Offline chyros

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4987 on: Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:36:24 »
I don't own a wirepuller, can I do it with a normal one, or will I risk damaging the stems? I can order one fairly cheaply from china, it's just gonna take a month for it to arrive. I would prefer replacing my keycaps right away.
You can do it with ring pullers, but it's not as easy and they might wear out. Shouldn't damage the caps, though.
Check my keyboard video reviews:


Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4988 on: Thu, 12 January 2017, 07:39:55 »
You can easily make one, but the "store-bought" ones are better.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline MperorM

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4989 on: Thu, 12 January 2017, 09:32:13 »
Thanks for that tip, gonna try that next time. So successfully managed to remove the keycaps I wanted replaced. It did require using more force than I've ever had to use with a keyboard.

I tried to pull a cap that had stabilizers off, however I almost destroyed it in the process. I had to put the stabilizer parts back in with a pair of tweezers. 157435-0 Very happy with the result :)
Leopold fc980c with korean keycaps

KBParadise v80 with blank and original keycaps - FOR SALE

Offline Mattr567

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4990 on: Thu, 12 January 2017, 20:46:39 »
Desoldered the Ambers out of the Focus today and put in what SKCM Whites I have back into the Focus. Tomorrow is the big day. The rest of the SKCM Whites I got from Fohat will go into the Focus, it gets all back together, and then I get to desolder the NEW V60, ready for the SKCM Ambers :cool:

Then going to pick up a new spherical Alps set for it, thanks Canon :p Too bad its not the big AP one that had either SKCM/SKCL or plate spring, but the caps are the same! It uses Alps integrated dome.

(the slider came with it when the guy pulled the cap)
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4991 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 09:17:15 »
I would like to do a click mod on my 60% with SKCM Brown Alps for two reasons.

First, I would like a somewhat lighter switch and the heaviness of the Brown Alps is mainly due to the tactile leaf rather than the return spring. Second, I like a subtle click for additional auditory feedback.

I have done some preliminary experiments with various combinations of sliders, springs, and click leaves. The worst result included a Matias slider and Matias click leaf -- this produced a very loud click. With a Blue slider, spring, and click leaf the result was fairly good, but I got occasional clicks on the return stroke as well as on the down stroke. The most satisfactory result thus far was obtained by keeping all the Brown components except for a White click leaf.

Based on these initial tests, I think the simplest (and perhaps the best) way to go is to keep all the original parts except the tactile leaf and replace this with a click leaf from another type of Alps switch or clone. I am looking for recommendations for which click leaf to use: Blue, White, or Matias Click. However, if anyone has tried swapping additional components with good results, I would be interested in knowing what you found.



Offline alh84001

  • Posts: 276
  • Location: EU-HR-ZG
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4992 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 09:31:21 »
If you remove the springs, click leaves and sliders could it be considered an SKCM mod any more? So, I would definitely stay with just swapping the click leaf. Just for the fun of it, you could try it with click-modded orange or salmon leaves.

On that last point, I wonder if a day will come when someone click-mods SKCM Green  :))

Offline Mattr567

  • Posts: 840
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4993 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 16:35:29 »
Got it :D Full set of caps for the V60. SKCL Green is a bonus.







Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4994 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 16:39:55 »
If you remove the springs, click leaves and sliders could it be considered an SKCM mod any more? So, I would definitely stay with just swapping the click leaf. Just for the fun of it, you could try it with click-modded orange or salmon leaves.

On that last point, I wonder if a day will come when someone click-mods SKCM Green  :))

Haha. I was tempted to do this, but I didn't dare snip a leaf on any of my switches, mainly because they all go to whole keyboards. If they were individual switches, I would have tried it--like Chyros did.

Chyros found that you cannot click mod the switches. It has no effect, likely because of the weird shape of the tactile leaf that's more like a ramp of tactility rather than a very distinct point, so it probably doesn't cause the leaf to really snap backwards at any point. Getting that unique tactile sensation + clickiness is beyond our reach it seems. Well, aside from speaker clickers. :P

I also tried using SPRiT's lightest springs in SKCM Green and, while it did lighten the force to a degree, it didn't help much. There's not much you can do to lighten the load that SKCM Brown and Green puts on your fingers, I'd say.

Haata described this with how he measured Topre. I forget how he stated it, but it's like... your finger has to do more work--it's constantly battling the force of that ramped curve as opposed to one tactile point, so it puts more force against your fingers. I remember it couldn't be measured simply. It's like work over time or something? Chyros, Hypersphere, or XMIT could probably elucidate on this more than I can.

Being that they're metal and not rubber, that's probably why they feel a significant bit stiffer than Topre.
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 January 2017, 16:44:32 by E3E »

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4995 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:06:37 »
@E3E: When you say, "Chyros found that you cannot click mod the switches" I presume you talking about SKCM Green Alps and not SKCM Brown Alps.

Although the tactile "leaf" (tactile assembly) in SMCM Brown Alps switches is a very different design from the actual click leaves in SKCM Blue or White Alps or Matias Click switches, I've found that you can swap out the tactile assembly in SKCM Brown Alps with a click leaf from one of the other clicky switches and get a clicky Brown Alps switch.

However, I am still undecided about which of the swappable components (swappable in a non-desoldered switch) to use in order to convert Brown Alps to something closely resembling the sound and feel of SMCM Blue Alps.

I am typing on Brown Alps now, and although I appreciate the strong and precise tactility, these switches can be fatiguing.


Offline E3E

  • Posts: 2831
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4996 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:17:14 »
@E3E: When you say, "Chyros found that you cannot click mod the switches" I presume you talking about SKCM Green Alps and not SKCM Brown Alps.

Although the tactile "leaf" (tactile assembly) in SMCM Brown Alps switches is a very different design from the actual click leaves in SKCM Blue or White Alps or Matias Click switches, I've found that you can swap out the tactile assembly in SKCM Brown Alps with a click leaf from one of the other clicky switches and get a clicky Brown Alps switch.

However, I am still undecided about which of the swappable components (swappable in a non-desoldered switch) to use in order to convert Brown Alps to something closely resembling the sound and feel of SMCM Blue Alps.

I am typing on Brown Alps now, and although I appreciate the strong and precise tactility, these switches can be fatiguing.

Oh, yes, yes. I was talking about SKCM Green because it does have a simple metal leaf as opposed to the two part plastic plate/leaf spring assembly that SKCM Brown has. Usually when I hear of someone click modding something, I think that they mean snipping the legs off of a tactile leaf to make it clicky.

Swapping in click leaves from clicky switches should work just fine. The browns don't have a flat surface like most other switch tops do for the click leaf to slap against, but I don't see that really changing anything. 
 
If you want to get an SKCM Blue feel out of SKCM Brown, I'd suggest just using blue click leaves. If you're trying to look for something similar but without having to use blue leaves, then I'd say use SKCM White leaves.

I soldered in SKCM White switches on a Xerox 6085 that I received in parts from MAR82 to send to Wingpad for testing, and I was very surprised at how nice it felt. It could be the chassis, but I had to pull out a vintage SKCM Blue board to compare because I was surprised at how nice the switches felt.

Offline alienman82

  • * Elevated Elder
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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4997 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:33:18 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 13:22:17 by alienman82 »

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4998 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:42:16 »
@E3E: Thanks for the suggestions! I had not realized that the top housings of SKCM Brown Alps were different from those from other SKCM tactile/clicky Alps switches. As long as I am taking apart switches to swap parts, I could swap the top housings as well. I should think that the flat surface for the click leaf could make a difference in sound and possibly the feel of the switch.

Yes, I certainly agree that SKCM White Alps in excellent condition (and in the "pine" generation rather than the "bamboo" era) in the right chassis can be superb. At present, my favorite Alps board with respect to sound and feel is an early model Northgate Omnikey 101 with SKCM White Alps.

Presumably, the plastic used in later generations of SKCM Alps sliders is inherently more slippery than the plastic used in the earlier model switches, so to avoid trying to replicate the dry lubrication used in the earlier switches, it might be good to use sliders from White Alps.

Offline alienman82

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Re: Alps Appreciation Thread
« Reply #4999 on: Fri, 13 January 2017, 17:45:07 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 13:22:14 by alienman82 »