Alps Appreciation Thread

[E3E]

Thanks for quick reply although nearly all of them lack 1.5 backspace (with legend). It also seems I can't find an IBM on ebay right now, but I do have an Dell AT101 seller in contact.

That's a very hard key to find with legend accuracy. The Canon typewriter Mattr mentioned (and used to dress his V60MTS) is one example of a backspace legend beying on a key in R2 profile and the correct size. Problem would then be filling out the keys missing that the board does not account for. Ansi Enter, space bar, bottom row, and right shift. Yeeeah. Not to mention that the profile is a unique spherical profile, so that's even worse.

With Alps, you kind of learn not to be too picky because some things either don't exist or are just really hard to find an example of.

[fohat.digs]

but I do have an Dell AT101 seller in contact.

Only the very early AT101s have the PBT caps. The majority of them will not, and PBT was long gone by the time the AT101W came out.

[Hypersphere]

Was thinking about selling my modded omnikey, but I just cant bring myself to do it.

Northgate Omnikey 101 is the endgame Alps keyboard for anybody who prefers straight-ANSI layout.

I have 2: one with excellent blue Alps and one with modded like-new "faux-orange" (long story). Alps keyboards simply don't get any better than that.

I agree! The Omni 101 has a superb solid chassis for bringing out the best in Alps switches. I prefer typing on my Omni 101 with SKCM "Pine" White Alps to typing on other keyboards with SKCM Blue Alps. My "to do" list includes installing Blue Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 as part of my asymptotic approach to typing perfection.

[fohat.digs]

My "to do" list includes installing Blue Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 as part of my asymptotic approach to typing perfection.

I think that I found myself in nearly the same position as you do (although I had already transplanted a set of excellent blue Alps into a clean Omnikey 101 and was extremely pleased with the result) in that I bought a beautiful "like-new" 101 last summer (shortly before I steered you to the one you bought, as I remember).

My problem is that I have a checkered history with de-soldering Northgates and have damaged more than 1 in the process, so I had considerable trepidation at the thought of butchering such a beauty.

The solution was easy, because I wanted an orange tactile version to go along with the clicky one. I had a bag of very nice oranges, but I realized that the only difference between them and the whites were the springs, leaves, and sliders. Being that the whites were essentially new, I did not do any soldering and left the switch bodies in place, removed the tops, and rebuilt them with the orange springs and leaves. Thus, I have a keyboard that is in fact an orange tactile switch version, even though the eyes see what looks like white sliders. I elected to re-use the white sliders since they were newer and better than the orange ones that I had on hand.

If it is just my imagination and clumsiness that makes me think that Northgates are problematic in the soldering department, go ahead. But a set of switch bodies in perfect condition, factory-soldered in place - you might consider just leaving them intact and rebuilding them from the top.

[mike52787]

I never had any issues desoldering either my avant prime or my omnikey 101. The pads are fragile, and I lifted one but it still worked. Just go slow and be careful and you should be ok.

[cumwagondeluxe]

Anyone know if IBM 5140s (Convertible PC) really are my best bet for finding brown alps? Is there really not any documented part number for them hidden on some site somewhere? (e.g. like SKCMAQ for white alps)

[Mattr567]

Anyone know if IBM 5140s (Convertible PC) really are my best bet for finding brown alps? Is there really not any documented part number for them hidden on some site somewhere? (e.g. like SKCMAQ for white alps)

That and some versions Magnavox VIdeowriter keyboards can come with them. Otherwise some Texas Instrument keyboards came with them but they are pretty rare.

[MandrewDavis]

Anyone know if IBM 5140s (Convertible PC) really are my best bet for finding brown alps? Is there really not any documented part number for them hidden on some site somewhere? (e.g. like SKCMAQ for white alps)

That and some versions Magnavox VIdeowriter keyboards can come with them. Otherwise some Texas Instrument keyboards came with them but they are pretty rare.

SKCM browns also were used in the keyboards of a few Xerox machines and Unix 7300 PCs. If you are patient, 5140s can be had on eBay for a good price.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Hypersphere]

My "to do" list includes installing Blue Alps in a Northgate Omnikey 101 as part of my asymptotic approach to typing perfection.

I think that I found myself in nearly the same position as you do (although I had already transplanted a set of excellent blue Alps into a clean Omnikey 101 and was extremely pleased with the result) in that I bought a beautiful "like-new" 101 last summer (shortly before I steered you to the one you bought, as I remember).

My problem is that I have a checkered history with de-soldering Northgates and have damaged more than 1 in the process, so I had considerable trepidation at the thought of butchering such a beauty.

The solution was easy, because I wanted an orange tactile version to go along with the clicky one. I had a bag of very nice oranges, but I realized that the only difference between them and the whites were the springs, leaves, and sliders. Being that the whites were essentially new, I did not do any soldering and left the switch bodies in place, removed the tops, and rebuilt them with the orange springs and leaves. Thus, I have a keyboard that is in fact an orange tactile switch version, even though the eyes see what looks like white sliders. I elected to re-use the white sliders since they were newer and better than the orange ones that I had on hand.

If it is just my imagination and clumsiness that makes me think that Northgates are problematic in the soldering department, go ahead. But a set of switch bodies in perfect condition, factory-soldered in place - you might consider just leaving them intact and rebuilding them from the top.

I suppose that when trying to mimic a given switch by doing a "top mod" with swappable parts (top housing, slider, tactile/click leaf, and return spring), it might also be important to have the same type of switch plate (short or long). I think white Alps have short switch plates -- is this correct? What about orange Alps -- do they have short or long switch plates? I am not sure how much difference the switch plate makes in the sound and feel of the switch. However, bamboo vs. pine top housings make a major difference, and of course a tactile vs click leaves do as well.

I am less certain about the sliders -- it seems that early generation sliders had dry lube applied, but later generation sliders did not. It is possible that the plastic used in later-generation switches were inherently more slippery and did not require additional lubrication. However, I have noticed that the spring post in white sliders looks a bit thicker and longer than the spring posts in earlier Alps switches, but I don't know if this affects the sound or feel of the switch.

Here is a link to the top mod I did on a Northgate Omnikey 101. I also painted the case black, put dye-sub PBT SGI caps on the alpha keys, Tai-Hao Wob caps on the F- and number keys, and Matias blank black on the mods and spacebar.

https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/northgate-omnikey-101-with-hybrid-skcm-white-orange-alps-switches-t15187.html



This Northgate had white bamboo switches that sounded more like Matias Click switches than white Alps, so I wanted to replace the bamboo tops with pine tops. The only pine-top switches I had on hand at the time were orange Alps. I ended up replacing the tops, sliders, and springs in the white Alps with the corresponding parts from the orange Alps. The link has some audio clips, but unfortunately the comparison is rather apples vs. oranges (or blue vs. white-orange in this specific case). I didn't think of making recordings until the mod was finished. Maybe next time I will think ahead and do more meaningful comparisons.

[fohat.digs]

important to have the same type of switch plate (short or long). I think white Alps have short switch plates -- is this correct? What about orange Alps -- do they have short or long switch plates?

All of the switches involved were "pine" and had long switch plates. A random small few of the orange ones had gray instead of white switch plates, but I could not see any actual differences in them.

[Hypersphere]

important to have the same type of switch plate (short or long). I think white Alps have short switch plates -- is this correct? What about orange Alps -- do they have short or long switch plates?

All of the switches involved were "pine" and had long switch plates. A random small few of the orange ones had gray instead of white switch plates, but I could not see any actual differences in them.

Interesting! Perhaps you could update the DT wiki article on SKCM white Alps switches. Under "known variants", the table indicates "unknown" for the type of switch plate in pine white Alps. Your observation attests to the notion that there was a gradual transition in the types of components used as white switches superseded blue, and a further gradual evolution throughout the era of SKCM white Alps switches.

[chyros]

important to have the same type of switch plate (short or long). I think white Alps have short switch plates -- is this correct? What about orange Alps -- do they have short or long switch plates?

All of the switches involved were "pine" and had long switch plates. A random small few of the orange ones had gray instead of white switch plates, but I could not see any actual differences in them.

Interesting! Perhaps you could update the DT wiki article on SKCM white Alps switches. Under "known variants", the table indicates "unknown" for the type of switch plate in pine white Alps. Your observation attests to the notion that there was a gradual transition in the types of components used as white switches superseded blue, and a further gradual evolution throughout the era of SKCM white Alps switches.

White Alps came in lots of variants - I have most of them, but not the unbranded variety. They generally used short switchplates, it's only the unbranded ones we're not sure of whether they used short or tall IIRC. Orange Alps always have tall switchplates AFAIK, (almost) always grey.

[Mattr567]

Been using my now SKCM Brown SGI Granite for almost a week now and I am loving it. Took a bit to get used to the new weight and tactile bump but i'm pretty used to it at this point. My fingers don't get tired out with these, except maybe sometimes when i'm holding down up arrow playing a game or something

SGI PBT + SKCM Brown is so satisfying. The AT101 is a good chassis for the switch as well.

Too bad the spacebar has reyellowed a bit

[invariance]

My first Alps board, an MTech K104.



Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?

(ipotato)

[mike52787]

My first Alps board, an MTech K104.
(Attachment Link)


Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
(Attachment Link)
(ipotato)

Yup, very early whites. Some of the best clicky switches, very close to blue alps.

[invariance]

Sweeeeeet.
Thanks for the confirmation.  If does feel nice.

[chyros]

My first Alps board, an MTech K104.
(Attachment Link)


Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
(Attachment Link)
(ipotato)

This is a very nice find. Could you please do us a favour and tell us whether it's got tall or short switchplates? This data is missing from the wiki .

[Hypersphere]

Been using my now SKCM Brown SGI Granite for almost a week now and I am loving it. Took a bit to get used to the new weight and tactile bump but i'm pretty used to it at this point. My fingers don't get tired out with these, except maybe sometimes when i'm holding down up arrow playing a game or something

SGI PBT + SKCM Brown is so satisfying. The AT101 is a good chassis for the switch as well.

Too bad the spacebar has reyellowed a bit

I had SKCM Brown Alps in my custom 60%, but they felt harsh on the fingers after a while. I think this was partly due to the small unyielding stainless steel plate. The switches probably feel better in a larger board with a somewhat more flexible build. The tactile assembly in Brown Alps provides a nice taut feel in this switch that is unlike any other Alps variety.

[nastrovje]

Hey guys!

I clearly have to revoke my claim from a few pages ago where I said that blue alps feel just like white alps but a bit better.

Thanks to being desperate and you guys who told me that there is no explanation for my experiences, altough I tried 2 different blue alps boards, I simply went ahead and bought the super expensive Monterey K2AX, which supposedly has flawless switches, from a friend who bought it from ebay.

And I have to say... You were right!

This thing feels absolutely marvelous!
I'm completely addicted to the feel and sound. I'm typing just for the sake of typing again and am angry that real life obligations are hindering me of doing so 24/7 

So now, my favourite boards are custom tkls and I realized I really need one with blue alps.
But at the same time I think it would be a crime to butcher such a rare board just to harvest the switches.

If I buy used blue alps like the mediocre ones I tried before, can I really bring them back to the condition of the ones I am typing right now?
Or is the statement that "every alps switch can be brought back" not completely correct?

[chyros]

Hey guys!

I clearly have to revoke my claim from a few pages ago where I said that blue alps feel just like white alps but a bit better.

Thanks to being desperate and you guys who told me that there is no explanation for my experiences, altough I tried 2 different blue alps boards, I simply went ahead and bought the super expensive Monterey K2AX, which supposedly has flawless switches, from a friend who bought it from ebay.

And I have to say... You were right!

This thing feels absolutely marvelous!
I'm completely addicted to the feel and sound. I'm typing just for the sake of typing again and am angry that real life obligations are hindering me of doing so 24/7 

So now, my favourite boards are custom tkls and I realized I really need one with blue alps.
But at the same time I think it would be a crime to butcher such a rare board just to harvest the switches.

If I buy used blue alps like the mediocre ones I tried before, can I really bring them back to the condition of the ones I am typing right now?
Or is the statement that "every alps switch can be brought back" not completely correct?

Told ya .

No, I wouldn't count on being able to restore them. You might improve them, but I don't think you'll ever get them back to as-new condition. The best method so far has been reported to be sonication, in case you want to try. But I wouldn't count on it.

[nastrovje]

Totally worth it man!

But damn. So that plan most likely falls through.
Which is ok, but I'm already getting scared of what I am going to do after the ones I have right now don't feel as good anymore. )

Luckily we got an ultrasonic cleaner for hobbyists somewhere in the house. Going to try it out with a badge of white and orange Alps first.
But don't expect any news about that for a few weeks. I'm too busy typing 

[Mattr567]

Totally worth it man!

But damn. So that plan most likely falls through.
Which is ok, but I'm already getting scared of what I am going to do after the ones I have right now don't feel as good anymore. )

Luckily we got an ultrasonic cleaner for hobbyists somewhere in the house. Going to try it out with a badge of white and orange Alps first.
But don't expect any news about that for a few weeks. I'm too busy typing 

Do only the switch tops, that is what really makes the biggest difference. The only other thing would be the switch bottoms but it is a huge pain to remove water from the switchplate.

[E3E]

Totally worth it man!

But damn. So that plan most likely falls through.
Which is ok, but I'm already getting scared of what I am going to do after the ones I have right now don't feel as good anymore. )

Luckily we got an ultrasonic cleaner for hobbyists somewhere in the house. Going to try it out with a badge of white and orange Alps first.
But don't expect any news about that for a few weeks. I'm too busy typing 

If you take good care of the keyboard, it shouldn't have any problems with feel. I think most of the irreparable wear comes from abrasion and deformation of the top housing's rails for the slider. Luckily, this means you don't need to find great quality switches to -make- a great quality switch.

If you have a board full of used SKCM Blues, just take some switch tops from another SKCM switch of your choice that's in great condition (but more common) and put the SKCM Blue internals in that top.

You've now just revitalized your switches' feel to great or like new condition.

Also, what custom TKLs do you have by the way?

[invariance]

My first Alps board, an MTech K104.
(Attachment Link)


Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
(Attachment Link)
(ipotato)

This is a very nice find. Could you please do us a favour and tell us whether it's got tall or short switchplates? This data is missing from the wiki .

To my untrained eye it appears to be a short one.




If I need to desolder a switch for further investigation or even measurements, I am more than willing to.

[E3E]

My first Alps board, an MTech K104.
(Attachment Link)


Appears to be one of the unbranded whites?
(Attachment Link)
(ipotato)

This is a very nice find. Could you please do us a favour and tell us whether it's got tall or short switchplates? This data is missing from the wiki .

To my untrained eye it appears to be a short one.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)


If I need to desolder a switch for further investigation or even measurements, I am more than willing to.

Yep, these are definitely short plates.

[happylacquer]

Hey guys, any advice for someone about to do their first AEK2 USB conversion?

[need]

Hey guys, any advice for someone about to do their first AEK2 USB conversion?

You are going to make a Hasu ADB convertor right?
It's pretty easy with a Teensy, but I had troubles with Pro-Micro controllers.

Also I prefer making an outside converter that can be shared between multiple keyboards/apple mouse.

[Hypersphere]

Totally worth it man!

But damn. So that plan most likely falls through.
Which is ok, but I'm already getting scared of what I am going to do after the ones I have right now don't feel as good anymore. )

Luckily we got an ultrasonic cleaner for hobbyists somewhere in the house. Going to try it out with a badge of white and orange Alps first.
But don't expect any news about that for a few weeks. I'm too busy typing 

Do only the switch tops, that is what really makes the biggest difference. The only other thing would be the switch bottoms but it is a huge pain to remove water from the switchplate.

I suppose if you had loose switches, you could sonicate the bottoms (including the switchplates) in a non-aqueous solvent, taking care that is is a "plastic-friendly" solvent (acetone would definitely be out on this score, plus it is highly flammable, making it dangerous to use).

If the switches were soldered into a board and you wanted to clean the bottoms and switchplates in situ, you could use a non-lubricating non-aqueous contact cleaner.

If the sliders, springs, and tactile/click leaves have picked up oils and/or dirt, it couldn't hurt to sonicate them as well, although I tend to agree that sonicating the switch tops gives you the biggest bang per bat squeak.

[fohat.digs]

Unless the metal parts such as leaves or springs have started to rust, they are probably almost "as good as new" even as some of the plastic parts have gotten worn and dirty.

Replacing top housings and sliders and vacuuming or blowing out the switch bodies will get you most of the way there without undue effort.

Mr Bishop's "trident" tools are very highly recommended.

[E3E]

Aside from issues with the contacts that could probably be remedied with contact cleaner, I don't see any benefit in washing the bottoms. They wouldn't affect feel unless the slider is literally bottoming out on some kind of sticky mess at the bottom of the switch.

[Hypersphere]

Aside from issues with the contacts that could probably be remedied with contact cleaner, I don't see any benefit in washing the bottoms. They wouldn't affect feel unless the slider is literally bottoming out on some kind of sticky mess at the bottom of the switch.

Sounds reasonable. However, if you are using pressurized contact cleaner on switches that are soldered in place, you end up spraying the switch bottoms as well.

[E3E]

Aside from issues with the contacts that could probably be remedied with contact cleaner, I don't see any benefit in washing the bottoms. They wouldn't affect feel unless the slider is literally bottoming out on some kind of sticky mess at the bottom of the switch.

Sounds reasonable. However, if you are using pressurized contact cleaner on switches that are soldered in place, you end up spraying the switch bottoms as well.

I've actually never used contact cleaner on Alps contacts, but it seems like some people have success with it? I usually just swap out bunked switch plates. If it's a quick drying cleaner, I don't see why it'd leave any residue unless contact cleaners typically leave a film behind or something.

The only contact cleaner I have atm is a lubricant as well, so I wouldn't use that on the switch plates.

[fohat.digs]

The only contact cleaner I have atm is a lubricant as well, so I wouldn't use that on the switch plates.

Are we talking about something like De-Oxit? My understanding was that the residue was very slight and electrically neutral.

[E3E]

The only contact cleaner I have atm is a lubricant as well, so I wouldn't use that on the switch plates.

Are we talking about something like De-Oxit? My understanding was that the residue was very slight and electrically neutral.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There's tons of sprays that say they're quick drying and safe on plastics though. Not sure how much it varies between them. Almost all of them have great reviews on Amazon, I've seen.

Yeah, I'd imagine it wouldn't be an issue in the bottom of the housings either. It'd have to be nasty and gunky to really effect the switch.

[E3E]

Thanks again to MattR for the trade:



I'm really excited to ultimately top off my Mira build with these sitting on top of SKCL Striped Ambers.

The blue chinese Alphas are so pretty and the Japanese set being used for the F row strangely works, imo. I first had to use a funky F row like that with my Chinese PBT caps, and then the ICL One Per Desk. I'm not so picky about legend accuracy. I'm more picky about profile uniformity.

[Hypersphere]

Thanks again to MattR for the trade:

Show Image

I'm really excited to ultimately top off my Mira build with these sitting on top of SKCL Striped Ambers.

The blue chinese Alphas are so pretty and the Japanese set being used for the F row strangely works, imo. I first had to use a funky F row like that with my Chinese PBT caps, and then the ICL One Per Desk. I'm not so picky about legend accuracy. I'm more picky about profile uniformity.

Yes, I tend to go for profile and color symmetry. Whenever possible, I use blanks for mods, partly because I like to remap to a HHKB-like layout and it is very difficult to find the appropriate legends.

As for non-English legends, unless I can read the language I hesitate to use them for fear that the legends say something quite unexpected.   :-[

[Mattr567]

Thanks again to MattR for the trade:

Show Image

I'm really excited to ultimately top off my Mira build with these sitting on top of SKCL Striped Ambers.

The blue chinese Alphas are so pretty and the Japanese set being used for the F row strangely works, imo. I first had to use a funky F row like that with my Chinese PBT caps, and then the ICL One Per Desk. I'm not so picky about legend accuracy. I'm more picky about profile uniformity.

Those look great! Did you retrobright them more after you got them? They were white but those look even whiter.

I have a small regret trading them, but I really had no use for them. The Canon's on SKCM Amber are great, especially in a 60% travel combo. SKCM Browns are fantastic in an SGI too.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

Those look great! Did you retrobright them more after you got them? They were white but those look even whiter.

I have a small regret trading them, but I really had no use for them. The Canon's on SKCM Amber are great, especially in a 60% travel combo. SKCM Browns are fantastic in an SGI too.

Aww, I don't mean to rub it in, man. It's just that I am really grateful. It'll help a ton and will be the highlight for the Mira, I think. I still need to figure out a few more things because not all the caps are just right.

Yeah, the one thing the set might not have is color uniformity on the F5-8 keys (or well, having it traditional where it matches the Esc key color), though I might try color matching the mods with dye. ABS can be dyed as Dokyun mentioned (and I've done with a space bar), but getting the right color might be tricky.

At least you had a good replacement, Mattr! I'm kind of trying to collect all the high pro spherical caps as well, so it's very much appreciated and it looks like you put the switches to good use too!

Yep, I did give them another retrobright since the Japanese set was a lighter shade. I figured they could use it. It really helps that blue/teal color to pop.

The only high pro set I'm curious about now is the Yamaha MSX series, but it seems as though they aren't particularly deep in terms of scoop depth. Kind of like the One Per Desk caps, which are high pro, but very very shallowly scooped. Practically flat.

Those and the Canon caps are all I'd like to collect in terms of caps at the moment.

[zombimuncha]

So I'm sitting here tinkering with my V80-MTS-C (just put 65g return springs in, feels good so far, pings like a MF) and for a giggle I put some stabilizer lube (Superlube 21030) on the crossbars on the underside of one of the keycaps. It doesn't alter the feel and it sounds great! It muffles the high pitched clack noise and brings more attention to the click from the click leaf. I'm considering doing it to the whole board, but I'm a little worried the thick lube might migrate to the stems and ruin the switches. What do you guys think?

[Mattr567]

Thinking about selling my FK-3001 and buying something else. Any suggestions?

Looking at a Monterey K104 w/ tactile SMK's. A SMK board would be interesting let alone a tactile one.

[mike52787]

Thinking about selling my FK-3001 and buying something else. Any suggestions?

Looking at a Monterey K104 w/ tactile SMK's. A SMK board would be interesting let alone a tactile one.

Are you interested in a k104 with monterey blues and a really odd case?

[Mattr567]

Thinking about selling my FK-3001 and buying something else. Any suggestions?

Looking at a Monterey K104 w/ tactile SMK's. A SMK board would be interesting let alone a tactile one.

Are you interested in a k104 with monterey blues and a really odd case?

Yes.

What do you mean by odd case?

[mike52787]

Thinking about selling my FK-3001 and buying something else. Any suggestions?

Looking at a Monterey K104 w/ tactile SMK's. A SMK board would be interesting let alone a tactile one.

Are you interested in a k104 with monterey blues and a really odd case?

Yes.

What do you mean by odd case?

I would say this qualifies as odd, wouldnt you?
 
It has a thermal printer and a really neat lcd display. It seems to just be a normal board, It has a normal pcb on it, it's just connected to another pcb inside. If you can figure out the pinout by looking at another k104 you could hack in a ps2 cable. I have the original box as well.

[Mattr567]

PM'd.

[Mattr567]

Own it

Solid trade right there. Need to rewire it/make a cable and then ill be perfect as it is quirky. Right now the connector for the cable is connected internally to the printer.

[E3E]

Own it

Solid trade right there. Need to rewire it/make a cable and then ill be perfect as it is quirky. Right now the connector for the cable is connected internally to the printer.

One funky keyboard with an LCD for another one. Pretty 1:1, haha.

[Mattr567]

Own it

Solid trade right there. Need to rewire it/make a cable and then ill be perfect as it is quirky. Right now the connector for the cable is connected internally to the printer.

One funky keyboard with an LCD for another one. Pretty 1:1, haha.

Yea lol. I didn't see a point with SKCM White when I have the Packard. SMK will bring something new to the table.

[E3E]

Yea lol. I didn't see a point with SKCM White when I have the Packard. SMK will bring something new to the table.

Yeah, SKCM White is pretty irrelevant when you've got a nice board with blues. I did like them in the AZERTY Xerox 6085 I put them in before sending off to Wingpad though, haha.