Author Topic: [IC] Balance - F-Row-Less 1800 Keyboard with a Knob [UPDATED - GB 7/30] (Read 30312 times)

upas · « **on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:08:27 »

Hey guys,

I have an update! And a group buy date.
We will be running Balance on CannonKeys only starting July 30th.
We'll keep the group buy open for 2 weeks, and there is a very high cap which we don't think we will reach.
The Balance will be available on our normal storefront.

In terms of decisions that have been made:

The PCB will NOT support split right shift, but will have LED indicators on Caps Lock and Num Lock.

The price will be $465 for each kit.

Each kit will include:
Keyboard top, bottom, top left accent, top right accent, bottom accent piece
Black aluminum plate
Balance PCB (USB-C, ESD Production)
Unified C3 Daughterboard and JST Cable
ALPS Encoder
CannonKeys Logo Knob
Poron Gaskets
Rubber feet (bumpon compatible)
Foam Carrying Case
Microfiber Cloth

The colors available will be:
Navy/Silver + Silver Aluminum CannonKeys Knob
Black/Silver + Silver Aluminum CannonKeys Knob
Grey/Lilac + Silver Aluminum CannonKeys Knob
E White/Gold w/ Brass Top Accents + Gold PVD Brass CannonKeys Knob - $20 upcharge

We will also offer the following add-ons:
Black, Gold, and Multicolored PVD Brass CannonKeys Knob - $45
Silver, Gold, and Black Aluminum CannonKeys Knob - $18
FR4 Plates - $30
Brass Plates - $60
Polycarbon Plates - $50
Black Aluminum Plates - $50
Extra PCBs - $60
Extra Gaskets - $6

Top accent pieces in Black, Lilac, Navy, Silver, Grey, and Brass - $50, $55 for Brass
Bottom accent pieces in Black, Lilac, Navy, Silver, Grey, and Brass - $15, $20 for Brass

Pricing on extras to follow in the next couple days.
We'll be sending out emails with these details to those who opted in to email notifications once add-on pricing is set.

============================================

Hey everyone,

I’m back with a new design that is ready for an interest check! This is the Balance - an 1800 keyboard without an F-row and with a Knob.

>> GIVE US FEEDBACK <<

One of my favorite keyboards to use is the Cypher - but when I use it, I really do miss having a knob to control volume and media. For that reason, even when doing tasks that are better suited for a numpad, I find myself using my Satisfaction75 quite frequently. This board was meant to fill that gap for me, while also playing with a new interesting side profile, considering two-tone color as a first-class design element, and integrating gasket mounting.

Why is it called Balance?

There is a little accent piece on the back of the board, and when looking at the board from behind, to me, it looks like the whole width of the board is balancing on the accent piece.

Supported Layouts:

PCB Support:

Most notable here is the exclusion of split right shift. On the PCB, we put the MCU there… so it would be a significant change to add split right shift support. I personally don’t think it’s necessary given this board has lots of keys, but also understand that some people might like having it. We’ll potentially add it based on the feedback we receive. Please only ask for it if you think you would actually buy this keyboard, and it would be a dealbreaker for you!

My preferred layout:

This is my personal favorite layout and I have designed fixed layout plates for this one. We'll likely take this layout and add Split BS and Stepped Caps support for the GB.

Universal ANSI plate:

A plate featuring support for all of these layouts will also be offered.

NE Iso Avail?

We have not designed an ISO plate yet, but our plate files will be made publicly available as the GB comes close to ship time. We may offer ISO plates at a low MOQ for an extra fee.

Things I personally really Like about this Design:

Accent piece on top - this is not a functional pen rail, just an accent piece
Accent piece on the back - this is where the “Balance” name comes from
Knob - enough said
Side Profile - It looks great in 2 tones, and is kinda a “seamless” design

Design Features:
- QMK and VIA Compatible PCB (Designed by Upas, assisted/routed by Ender)
- ESD Protection
- Centered USB-C C3 Unified Daughterboard
- STM32 ARM Processor
- No backlight LEDs, no hotswap
- Poron Gasket Isolation Sandwich Mount
- Custom soft rubber feet - these are bumpon compatible, so if you prefer bumpons, you can source and use those instead
- ALPS Encoder and Cannon Logo Knob in Aluminum
- 6 case parts (not including knob)
- Two tone design with really cool side profile (this is one of my favorites)
- No extra weight - imo, the keyboard is heavy enough as-is, and sounds good
- 5.5 degree typing angle
- About 15.7mm Front Height
- About 29.7mm Back Height
- Fits in an approximate 407mm x 121mm x 30mm bounding box (releasing this info so you can figure out how to make an appropriate wrist rest or etc.)
- Brass plate by default, FR4 and CF options likely

Internals:

Gasket strips are not shown, but it should be pretty clear where they go.
No case foam / plate foam necessary.

Colors:
We’re currently planning on running at least 4 of the following colors, if not all 5:

Navy/Silver (Silver Alu accent)
Red/Gold (Brass Accent)
Black/Purple (Purple Alu Accent)
Grey/Lilac (Lilac Alu Accent)
E-White/Teal (Teal Alu Accent)

We hope to also offer extra top accent pieces and potentially bottom accent pieces if there seems to be demand. Brass pieces will be an addon (except for red/gold).

Current Status:
The case geometry and general design is locked in - we don’t intend to make any changes at this point. We may take feedback on layouts and plate materials. We are working on some special knobs with the CannonKeys logo on them - prototypes should arrive soon.

Can you change X, Y, or Z?
At this point, most of the design decisions have been made, but if there is very strong feedback in the IC form, we will consider making more changes. We already have 5 production prototypes on hand. The images you see in this thread are not renders. They are photos.

Expected Price/Qty:
Given there are no large brass parts involved in this keyboard (no brass weight) - we think we can hit a price point of $465 including an anodized aluminum knob.

This GB will run with at least 500 units. We do not expect them all to sell out. Unsure on international vendors / proxies at the moment. We will likely handle the Western markets (USA, Canada, UK, EU) and potentially loop in other vendors for Asia.

>> GIVE US FEEDBACK <<

More content:
Minterly built a Balance on stream and made a sound test available here:

One thing of note - this early prototype did not have spacebar acoustic cuts, so the production spacebar will not be as loud. Do you like loud spacebars? Let us know in the feedback form and we can run a plate without the cuts!

More Photos:

lalostad98 · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:10:32 »

been waiting for this for so long, FINALLY!

upas · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:12:35 »

Messed up "reserving", but I'll use this post to start an FAQ

Zeelobby · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:13:04 »

Time for long-boi. Lookin good.

7empest · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:13:22 »

oof been looking forward to this one! that side profile is so nice

KurtKurtson · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:15:23 »

O Yes with the ISO-Plate!

Robert.Lussier5 · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:24:02 »

but but but I want my F row!

Looks great though.

Neely_12 · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:24:18 »

Looks interesting. I like all the elements besides the pen rail. Idk just not a fan. Boards looks good regardless good luck!

Hern · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:33:48 »

"We do not expect them all to sell out"

I am sure when it comes down to it myself and everyone else will be clenching to the desk during that CK queue system hoping to get the purchase. Excited to see renders of all the final color options and get my hands on one since I do not have a 1800 keyboard to add to my collection!

thecyangiant · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:37:29 »

Dayuuum Upas, what a scorcher. I may have to consider this despite 'being done with this loathsome hobby'

Southpaw option would make it must have, but I can see why it wouldn't translate.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

mawli · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:41:08 »

Year of FRL!

upas · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:44:40 »

Quote from: Hern on Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:33:48

"We do not expect them all to sell out"

I am sure when it comes down to it myself and everyone else will be clenching to the desk during that CK queue system hoping to get the purchase. Excited to see renders of all the final color options and get my hands on one since I do not have a 1800 keyboard to add to my collection!

We have photos of all the color options - they are under the "More Photos" section. You have to click on "More"

EDIT: I'm gonna remove the "More" part to make them easier to find

Okonomiyaki#2832 · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:47:36 »

Looks really neat. All the best to you, UPAS.

mr_fro2000 · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 08:54:24 »

Looks amazing, love the brass accent at the top!

clik_clak · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 09:08:17 »

Very nice! That black/purple is the hotness!

Would prefer a brass weight myself, but I'll be trying to grab one regardless. Makes me happy that I won't have to keep checking MM for Cyphers.

Good job, Upas!

clik_clak · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 09:11:02 »

Forgot to ask one additional question...

Will your Satisfaction75 Rama knobs fit this as well? Any chance for custom knobs?

nubbinator · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 09:38:51 »

Honestly, this is pretty much a dream layout. I had something similar drawn up. Love the split keys at backspace for a little HHKB style top row and backspace/ delete instead of |\.

I would have preferred a split right shift option, but that bottom row more than makes up for.

There one thing I'd do is ditch the PgUp/PgDn keys since you already have them on the numpad. A small LCD or even LED strip, would be awesome to have there instead.

Chippy · « **Reply #17 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 09:54:56 »

Quote from: nubbinator on Wed, 09 June 2021, 09:38:51

Honestly, this is pretty much a dream layout. I had something similar drawn up. Love the split keys at backspace for a little HHKB style top row and backspace/ delete instead of |\.

I would have preferred a split right shift option, but that bottom row more than makes up for.

There one thing I'd do is ditch the PgUp/PgDn keys since you already have them on the numpad. A small LCD or even LED strip, would be awesome to have there instead.

This could potentially be achieved by putting an oled header there, on top of the switch cutouts, allowing for an oled to be implemented if people want one. There would have to be end user configuration to get it to work, but might be cool.

quantumlocke · « **Reply #18 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 10:16:39 »

Quote from: nubbinator on Wed, 09 June 2021, 09:38:51

Honestly, this is pretty much a dream layout. I had something similar drawn up. Love the split keys at backspace for a little HHKB style top row and backspace/ delete instead of |\.

I would have preferred a split right shift option, but that bottom row more than makes up for.

There one thing I'd do is ditch the PgUp/PgDn keys since you already have them on the numpad. A small LCD or even LED strip, would be awesome to have there instead.

Those two keys are what make it a dream layout for me. I need a dedicated delete button approximately where it is “supposed to be” and 1800s/96% boards almost never have that. My actual ideal board would be a 65% plus keypad, and that’s basically what this is.

Kokaloo · « **Reply #19 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 10:20:17 »

Would a WKL top be an option for the default layout? It's pretty neat to find a 1800cp that has a bottom row that would support it.
Thinking about it more I would really like to see the PCB redesigned for split rshift.
I don't want to believe this is a decision strongarmed by you, so redesigning for a more viable and customizable PCB would hopefully be the route you choose to take.

rooski15 · « **Reply #20 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 11:03:38 »

I rotate my daily between a 980c and a cypher. I keep saying I'm trying to divest from mx and commit to topre completely, but it's hard to pass on boards like this. There are so few 1800 layouts. Very excited about seeing this come to market.

Edit: would like the option for split right shift.

Jyll · « **Reply #21 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 11:30:13 »

Yes! Been waiting for this to show up! In.

Ustinj · « **Reply #22 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 13:06:49 »

That contrasting side is so cool. Time to practice the numpad

)

NoteMakoti · « **Reply #23 on:** Wed, 09 June 2021, 16:18:06 »

I would kill a man in the street for a southpaw version of this, with the numpad on the left.

Bl4ck · « **Reply #24 on:** Thu, 10 June 2021, 05:41:42 »

black/brass or black/white would be 2 amazing combos

Would u also look into better solutions for EU customers? (like getting a EU vendor, or charging the VAT yourself)

upas · « **Reply #25 on:** Thu, 10 June 2021, 16:43:13 »

Quote from: Bl4ck on Thu, 10 June 2021, 05:41:42

black/brass or black/white would be 2 amazing combos

Would u also look into better solutions for EU customers? (like getting a EU vendor, or charging the VAT yourself)

We're looking into self-charging VAT.

For colors - one of the primary pieces of feedback that has really resonated with us is the ask for more neutral colors that can match many keysets.

I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up going with a black/silver or white/gold colorway (or both)

kiileyy32 · « **Reply #26 on:** Thu, 10 June 2021, 20:51:24 »

Quote from: upas on Thu, 10 June 2021, 16:43:13

We're looking into self-charging VAT.

For colors - one of the primary pieces of feedback that has really resonated with us is the ask for more neutral colors that can match many keysets.

I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up going with a black/silver or white/gold colorway (or both)

I think the current colors are all great, I didn't look at any of them and think "dang that's bad". I will say however I really hope you guys are able to sell the accents as well, would love to be able to mix and match different colors. I did state that in my feedback as well

Super excited for this board and pray that I am able to get one!! Been super interested in it since I first saw you tease it a few months back!

ManoliVisuals · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 10 June 2021, 21:16:43 »

hard in on this

adi · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 10 June 2021, 22:10:30 »

smooth side profile and accent piece on usb look great. Wish I was a fan of a numpad, GL!

Hi !! · « **Reply #29 on:** Sun, 13 June 2021, 07:08:45 »

Liking the top accent and side profile. Not a fan of tall knob. Hoping there will be option to have a short or flat knob instead. Or even a way to swap knob with badge or just another accent piece.

Left-side numpad Version (Southpaw?) Unit also a very welcome addition.

Route6x · « **Reply #30 on:** Mon, 21 June 2021, 04:54:52 »

Liking the design. Hoping there will be an Asia vendor and looking forward to more details on the progress.

ksus · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 02 July 2021, 18:53:56 »

Interesting board. Am I the only one who thinks the middle cluster with the knob is a bit … phallic?

Like once I saw it, I cannot unsee.

hkf · « **Reply #32 on:** Thu, 08 July 2021, 19:03:30 »

Overall an awesome board. I will definitely be trying to grab one at the suggested price.

Things I like:

top "weight"/accent design. This is crazy nice especially with the knob creating the natural separation. Kudos
No bottom weight. Again as above.
Typing angle. Hard to find a low profile 1800
Layout

Things I LOVE:

Red/brass

Things I want to see:

More knob options/collabs?
Polycarb/other plastic plate tests?

Keeblet_257 · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 09 July 2021, 07:05:25 »

looking forward to it

irateeducator · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 14 July 2021, 21:15:00 »

This is all I ever wanted in a keyboard!

upas · « **Reply #35 on:** Thu, 22 July 2021, 21:06:08 »

Posted this up top, but in case you missed it:

Hey guys,

I have an update! And a group buy date.
We will be running Balance on CannonKeys starting July 30th.
We'll keep the group buy open for 2 weeks, and there is a very high cap which we don't think we will reach.
The Balance will be available on our normal storefront.

In terms of decisions that have been made:

The PCB will NOT support split right shift, but will have LED indicators on Caps Lock and Num Lock.

The price will be $465 for each kit.

Each kit will include:
Keyboard top, bottom, top left accent, top right accent, bottom accent piece
Black aluminum plate
Balance PCB (USB-C, ESD Production)
Unified C3 Daughterboard and JST Cable
ALPS Encoder
CannonKeys Logo Knob
Poron Gaskets
Rubber feet (bumpon compatible)
Foam Carrying Case
Microfiber Cloth

The colors available will be:
Navy/Silver + Silver Aluminum CannonKeys Knob
Black/Silver + Silver Aluminum CannonKeys Knob
Grey/Lilac + Silver Aluminum CannonKeys Knob
E White/Gold w/ Brass Top Accents + Gold PVD Brass CannonKeys Knob - $20 upcharge

We will also offer the following add-ons:
Black, Gold, and Multicolored PVD Brass CannonKeys Knob
Silver, Gold, and Black Aluminum CannonKeys Knob
FR4 Plates
Brass Plates
Polycarbon Plates
Black Aluminum Plates
Extra PCBs
Extra Gaskets

Top accent pieces in Black, Lilac, Navy, Silver, Grey, and Brass
Bottom accent pieces in Black, Lilac, Navy, Silver, Grey, and Brass

Pricing on extras to follow in the next couple days.
We'll be sending out emails with these details to those who opted in to email notifications once add-on pricing is set.

Edits:
Made ciarfications to the e-white variant. The top will be e-white. The bottom will be gold anodized aluminum. The bottom accent will be e-white. The top accent pieces will be BRASS. The knob will be PVD Gold Brass.

kiileyy32 · « **Reply #36 on:** Thu, 22 July 2021, 21:37:29 »

Dang, sad to see the purple got nixed

Still super excited and planning on getting one though!! Thanks for the update upas!! Can't wait!!

namidettje · « **Reply #37 on:** Thu, 22 July 2021, 21:43:57 »

As told in the IC, absolutely love the layout. Was having a hard time looking for something like this.

Apologies if it was already answered but is there going to be any EU vendor (The tax / VAT is going to be a hit)? And most importantly, plate with ISO layout?

Regardless, GLWS

Route6x · « **Reply #38 on:** Fri, 23 July 2021, 02:01:57 »

Sad to see purple gone as well. Was looking to get that combination. I would definitely still get the board; deciding between the Black/Silver & Grey/Lilac to go with GMK Symbiote.

sneekypoo · « **Reply #39 on:** Fri, 23 July 2021, 10:33:36 »

Would like to see renders of the white/gold colorway

ZavaZ86 · « **Reply #40 on:** Fri, 23 July 2021, 19:24:52 »

Any soft/vague est on how long production time would be?

hottrout · « **Reply #41 on:** Sat, 24 July 2021, 04:27:53 »

Please add a UK or EU vendor to this.

DuellM · « **Reply #42 on:** Mon, 26 July 2021, 19:28:42 »

This in White & Gold would look awesome!! Any chance for a Copper or Rose Rama Knob

upas · « **Reply #43 on:** Mon, 26 July 2021, 22:24:26 »

Pricing for extras is released!

Quote from: kiileyy32 on Thu, 22 July 2021, 21:37:29

Dang, sad to see the purple got nixed Still super excited and planning on getting one though!! Thanks for the update upas!! Can't wait!!

Quote from: Route6x on Fri, 23 July 2021, 02:01:57

Sad to see purple gone as well. Was looking to get that combination. I would definitely still get the board; deciding between the Black/Silver & Grey/Lilac to go with GMK Symbiote.

I'm also quite sad but the Red/Gold and Black/Purple colorways were the least popular

Quote from: ZavaZ86 on Fri, 23 July 2021, 19:24:52

Any soft/vague est on how long production time would be?

We're looking at a Q3 2022 timeframe. Given the current state of global supply chains, we think this is a realistic estimate.

Quote from: DuellM on Mon, 26 July 2021, 19:28:42

This in White & Gold would look awesome!! Any chance for a Copper or Rose Rama Knob

Unfortunately no RAMA Knobs this time around!

Quote from: sneekypoo on Fri, 23 July 2021, 10:33:36

Would like to see renders of the white/gold colorway

They are on their way!

Quote from: hottrout on Sat, 24 July 2021, 04:27:53

Please add a UK or EU vendor to this.

Quote from: namidettje on Thu, 22 July 2021, 21:43:57

As told in the IC, absolutely love the layout. Was having a hard time looking for something like this.

Apologies if it was already answered but is there going to be any EU vendor (The tax / VAT is going to be a hit)? And most importantly, plate with ISO layout?

Regardless, GLWS

We're planning on vending this globally. We will release plate files shortly prior to the GB shipping so that folks can make their own including ISO layouts.
We probably won't sell ISO layout plates with the buy, though.

upas · « **Reply #44 on:** Wed, 28 July 2021, 08:53:16 »

GB thread is up:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=113997.0

So I'm gonna lock this one

News:

Author Topic: [IC] Balance - F-Row-Less 1800 Keyboard with a Knob [UPDATED - GB 7/30] (Read 30312 times)