Author Topic: the infinity keyboard  (Read 3304 times)

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Offline austin

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the infinity keyboard
« on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 02:18:49 »
Earlier today I began work on a new keyboard. My current concept is the layout and form of a Japanese HHKB with 10 (optional) extra keys on the side to map for various purposes. The layout is subject to change and once finalized, a PCB layout for Cherry switches will be made.

This project is very new and aspects will likely change. Any criticism or suggestions are welcome to help to improve this.

Specifics for the controller have not been decided yet, but right now I'm leaning toward an AVR acting as a HID with V-USBi

The source is available at http://git.inmyan.us/t_rex/whitecedar. Attached is a quickly made visual representation of the current desired layout.
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 September 2014, 13:48:43 by austin »

Offline MAR82

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Re: the infinity keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 03:49:16 »
Personally I really like the 10 side buttons, but I'm not a fan of anything that doesn't use standard keycaps sizes for the main part of the board. I find the spacebar too small and the bottom row too cluttered.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 July 2014, 12:15:07 by MAR82 »

Online Findecanor

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Re: the infinity keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 11:45:45 »
AFAIK, the VUSB stack is doing USB completely in software. If you would use the ATmega32U4 as the controller you would get hardware USB support, more MPU time for other stuff and it would be child's play to adapt several existing firmwares that already have lots of features such as support for layers, macros, dual-role modifier keys, NKRO and media keys over USB etc.
One of the most popular of these is Hasu's "TMK" firmware. There is a special version of it that supports backlighting, intended for the Red Scarf II PCB (which has four columns to the right instead of just two).

I would also like to direct you to take a look at the KPT KPT-84...
The left Shift is a standard 2.25 size, then there are 14 normal-sized keys to the right of it ... but there are 16 keys at the top row. 2.25 + 14 - 16 = 0.25 difference.
The secret is not in the keycaps, but in the spacing between the keys which is about 1/3 mm more narrow between the keys at the Shift key-row than over the rest of the keyboard.
I think that is a pretty neat trick that would allow for the arrow keys on the right while still having mostly regular staggering on the left side of the keyboard. There are more options for keycaps, and you could also fit a 1.25 left shift for those who like ISO.

Look also at the GH60 and Red Scarf PCBs for how they support different layouts: ISO or ANSI, 1u or 2u Backspace, and different options for the bottom row. Most of these PCBs have the controller chip underneath the Space Bar, but that would require a larger space bar than the Japanese HHKB has.
If I were making a PCB without SMD:d components, I would use a Teensy 2.0 board mounted on header pins underneath the numeric row. You would solder the header pins first, then the switches and the Teensy last.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 July 2014, 12:01:28 by Findecanor »
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Offline ideus

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Re: the infinity keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 11:59:28 »
Replace the spacebar with a 6.25u one, and rearrange the bottom row accordingly.

Online Findecanor

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Re: the infinity keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 12:10:46 »
Myself, I would rather have a regular Space bar split into two keys. Three units on each side from the centre, or at least under C/V, and N/M respectively. I find the JIS space bar to be too small and too much in the middle. It works for the Japanese because the Space character isn't used that much in Japanese, or so I've heard...
I use Swedish layout, where the Alt Gr key is used a lot, and I am used to it being right below the . key.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 July 2014, 12:18:11 by Findecanor »
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Offline technomancy

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Re: the infinity keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 13:07:05 »
This project is very new and aspects will likely change. Any criticism or suggestions are welcome to help to improve this.

Looks pretty cool. Unlike the others, I'm totally on board with a smaller space; wasting all that room on a single key is bad design.

If your layout is going to make heavy use of fn you might consider moving it towards the center so you can hit it with a thumb. That's where I have it on mine, but yours might just have more obscure keys accessed with fn so it wouldn't be a big deal. Also I have no idea what some of those glyphs on the bottom row mean. One cool thing I've seen is putting the arrows under hjkl with the fn key, vim-style so you can navigate around without taking your hands off the home row.

Offline ideus

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Re: the infinity keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 07 July 2014, 14:20:20 »
This project is very new and aspects will likely change. Any criticism or suggestions are welcome to help to improve this.

Looks pretty cool. Unlike the others, I'm totally on board with a smaller space; wasting all that room on a single key is bad design.

If your layout is going to make heavy use of fn you might consider moving it towards the center so you can hit it with a thumb. That's where I have it on mine, but yours might just have more obscure keys accessed with fn so it wouldn't be a big deal. Also I have no idea what some of those glyphs on the bottom row mean. One cool thing I've seen is putting the arrows under hjkl with the fn key, vim-style so you can navigate around without taking your hands off the home row.

The size of the spacebar is a matter of use, more than aesthetics. The current size design of the ANSI, and ISO was based on frequencies per key for the modifiers mainly. If you consider that 6.25u was a reduction in length from the original 7u, it is easy to understand that it was a need in order to accommodate the windows key mainly. However since the typewriter era a long spacebar allows to actuate it with no move required for the position of the hands. Of course Japanese does not use it as much as in Romance and Anglo-Saxon languages.

I think the Filco MiniLA has already a layout like that, but with no function block, and it is not programmable. I do not see much need for a new similar one though.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: the infinity keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 00:45:33 »
Why did you decide to put your extra function keys on the right, instead of the left where they typically are seen?

Are you Japanese / do you type Japanese?

Offline austin

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Re: the infinity keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 08 July 2014, 16:37:13 »
Update: Well, I've been doing a lot of thinking about this and researching various layouts. I believe that the US layout is the way to go. Some tweaking will be done to the upper keys, but the current priority now is the bottom row.

The Japanese HHKB has a reduced space bar size. The smaller size of the space bar is a nice, but too small. I need to find a happy medium. I also would like to fill up the bottom row instead of leaving the spaces on the side like in the US layout of the HHKB. Currently, this is what I'm working with. The top of board hasn't been touched yet.