Symmetrical Stagger PLUS rotation: would this work?

[PieterGen]

Hi all, has anyone ever seen a one-piece keyboard like this idea that I had?
Also: would do do think of it? Would it work? Would you use it?

Edit: the idea is to combine two ideas that are supposedly good for the hands:
1. symmetrical stagger (see in the picture: the left hand staggering is a mirror of the right hand, unlike standard keyboards).
2. some rotation between left / right, just like split keyboards do, or like some Microsoft Ergonomic keyboards do.

What do do think of it? Would it work? Would you use it?

[Findecanor]

Yes, a keyboard with a physical layout much like it does exist but ... It is weird in that it has the keys in alphabet order: The "New Standard Keyboard" (Keyboardco).. Gutsy name, huh?
I think it has been discontinued for a a few years.  It existed in a black and a colourful variant. There is a short review at Tom's Hardware and a longer one on Hardwarelogic.com.
Hmm.. Apparently the keys are huge. It looks like a kid's toy though with the large coloured keys and because the layout is in alphabet order...

I see that you are well aware of the Japanese M-shiki keyboards.

The Datadesk Smartboard series were large and with rotated sections but the keys were in more of a vertical arrangement or rather like a fan with ring finger columns vertical and the pinky columns having opposite stagger.
Alps or rubber dome.

BTW. The Geekhack member Bpiphany has designed a few keyboards with symmetric stagger.

[PieterGen]

Findecanor: thanks very much (also for pointing towards Bpiphany). The M-System keyboards that I have seen pictures of, are either symmetrical stagger OR have rotated halves (but then with a columnar layout).

This one is rotated, and has the keys in vertical columns.


This one has the symmetrical stagger layout:


Maybe there is a reason not to combine those ideas? Although... the "New Standard Keyboard" does exactly that thing ! 

[Findecanor]

I think that rotation becomes more important when there is more less hand-separation.

I wonder what hand separation and rotation that µTron users tend to use.

Edit: I had written wrong above...

[tp4tissue]

One piece is the problem..


Here's the issue we're trying to solve.


Ergonomics..


With respect to keyboarding,  there are MANY factors which fluctuate between different people and even FOR a single person.  Which is to say There is no one size fits all..


So by making a keyboard 1 piece, it sacrifices a significant amount of adjustability.


WHY would you want an adjustable keyboard..



How tall is a person..   
How high is his desk.. 
How high is his chair..
How far does he sit in that chair,
How close does he sit to the keyboard.
How long is the keyboard tray, 
At what angle does his wrist enter neutral position. 
What angle does his elbow make with his trunk, 
How far apart are his shoulders..
Is the person Tired, and Slouching in his chair
Is the person awake, and sitting upright



You can only do so much from the chair, and table ..


Short of buying all new office furniture, MOST people won't be able to adjust from that end.


SOOOoooo..  How do we come by a Keyboard that actually Suits your environment..


2 Piece,  Multi-Axis tenting adjustable.

Ie... ERGODOX


ANY and ALL  one piece ergonomic solution will fail to compensate for the myriad of unadjustable use-cases.

[Findecanor]

I think that a small one-piece keyboard like this one is useful only when travelling.
On the desk, a two-piece keyboard with a separate numeric row and a bank of function keys would be more useful IMHO.

[LuX]

Maybe there is a reason not to combine those ideas? Although... the "New Standard Keyboard" does exactly that thing ! 

The symmetrical stagger is supposed to simulate a physical curve while keeping the keyboard a more traditional square. However if you think of each key as a circle you will realize that it also increases the distance of the keys in a column. So if you are going to make a curve anyway, I think that a vertical stagger will be much better than horizontal.

Unless you are going for a unique style for the sake of appearance, I don't see a reason to combine both. If you want compactness, it might be an interesting design to take the symmetric stagger and then rotate the keys to that the caps align vertically, but rows align horizontally. Doesn't make a huge difference though.

[PieterGen]

Thank you all. You have convinced me that it's better to chose:
- either small & portable. This means one-piece, rectangular, symmetrical stagger, at the cost of being less ergonomic
- or more ergonomic, meaning a two piece setup with a columnar layout (à la Ergodox and so)

[yellowfour]

I would never choose to use horizontal stagger (including standard keyboards). As LuX said, vertical stagger is the way to go.

For what you want, you might check out the TEK (Truly Ergonomic Keyboard), seen here:



You should also read and watch reviews to see if it fits your criteria.

[instinctive]

I have long thought the ultimate keyboard would be matched Razer Orbweavers. Sadly, they only make the Orbweaver for the left hand.

[yasuo]

Lucky

[RominRonin]

I did some work a year ago on this very approach; the Katana:

http://imgur.com/gallery/Wpy9j

That was before I discovered the Atreus62 and the Dactyl keyboards. I recently returned to the idea however, because - like you - many people have had this very thought. While jumping from legacy -> fully split staggered column layouts is the realm of utter geekdom, for many this jump is far too intimidating. I think this kind of layout is for such people.

This xmas, I want to combine the Katana with the hinge mechanism of the 40% Plico board: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=84915.0

...to make something I'm currently calling the Katana V2: http://imgur.com/a/B5x9i