First Mech Keyboard Advice

[Smallville]

I'm looking for a cheap but good mechanical keyboard so I can dump this wireless rubber dome. Right now, I'm using a Logitech Cordless Wave and my laptop keyboard. What are recommendations below $75 shipped? I've been thinking of picking up a AT101W or Model M, but I can only find those on eBay and I would prefer not to use Paypal.

EDIT: My main use for it would be programming/typing. I do play WoW and Heroes of Newerth on occasion. I like the sound of the Cherry MX Blues. Are there any cheap boards with blue switches? I would also prefer tenkeyless because I would like to save room on my desk.

[woody]

Unicomp is worth trying, too. Doesn't fit into $75 shipped (to unknown location), but is close.

EDIT: Nevermind, OP wants tenkeyless.

[Smallville]

Actually, It would be fine if it wasn't tenkeyless. I would just PREFER it. I am located in San Diego, CA. How is the quality on the Blackwidow? That fits my budget nicely($75 shipped from Amazon) and it has Cherry Blues. I heard that there are a lot of problems with them since they are a Razer product.

[Smallville]

I did come from there haha. I'm not a frequent poster there, though. I just like to browse around.

[The Solutor]

How is the quality on the Blackwidow?

Is crap:

 wobbly keys because on black widow ultimate the keys are took in place by the LEDs, (which are missing on the BW)

 wobbly large keys, just poor design

unpleasant sound when typing, because the material used for the housing

poor keycaps quality, inverted legends, idiotic fonts

glued rubber feet and so on

also poor customer care

Look elsewhere or, at least, buy the BW ultimate which is slight better  (but out of your budget)

[Human]

Is crap:

 wobbly keys because on black widow ultimate the keys are took in place by the LEDs, (which are missing on the BW)

 wobbly large keys, just poor design

unpleasant sound when typing, because the material used for the housing

poor keycaps quality, inverted legends, idiotic fonts

glued rubber feet and so on

also poor customer care

Look elsewhere or, at least, buy the BW ultimate which is slight better  (but out of your budget)

Are you sure that BWU is better built than BW? From my experience with try BWU and BWE(try it at shop), BWE is definitely better built than BWU(though, it isn't much better).

1. Backlit keycaps are very prone to wear and LED bleeding will thus occur.
2. BWU is having more severe inconsistency in switch than BWE does. Some switches are just like faulty and does click and sound normal like others. Some even produce a springy sound instead.
3. Improperly mounted keyswitches. Some of the keys just randomly slanted to left or right. Many other keys just lifted or sank randomly.
4. The space bar overlapping with left/right alt which causing it to stuck or drag those keys too when pressed.
And of course lots more which i had posted numerous time. If you are free or curious to know just track up some of my earlier post.

P/S: I am a real Razer hater.

[pitashen]

How about RK9000? If you are to go with Blue its a pretty darn good deal if Newegg still has them in stock

[Smallville]

How about RK9000? If you are to go with Blue its a pretty darn good deal if Newegg still has them in stock

I've looked for them before, but they're not in stock on Newegg/ChiefValue anymore

[drsauced]

I don't think the RK9000 will be in stock at Newegg anytime soon.  Maybe a new MJ-2 model... the... [put pinky to mouth, Dr. Evil style] RK-9002?

I'll eat a PBT keycap if I'm wrong.

[Smallville]

How are the Adesso MKB-135B in terms of quality? It's cheap and has MX Blue switches. I read that it has a cheap feel to it.

[n19htmare]

Hi smallville, I'm also in San Diego.

The Razer blackwidow is a fine keyboard. A while back Fry's had them at $50 and chances are it MIGHT happen again.
I've had it, I've used it. It's a great entry level keybaord. It has Cherry MX Blues, Nice keycaps. The few that have problems are quite outspoken but what about the thousands who don't have problems?

It's possibly the most widely sold Mechanical keyboard around because of Razer brand (high availability online and locally).

Go to fry's. Buy it, Try it. Don't like it? Take it back. You have 30 days. Although,  last I went, they were sold out and only had the ultimate in stock, which in my opinion is NOT a good value. I would pick DAS over the ultimate if you were gonna spend around $100-$120.

[brkim1324]

I am Razer hater too.
Ever since Razer came out, I just looked at the overall design and packaging and I just felt like Razer doesn't really care about the overall quality of their product, but just want to make lots of money out of the brand. Then recently I wanted to get a new gaming mouse. My friend recommended me Razer so I thought, oh maybe they could have got better since it's been years the brand came out. So I tried Lachesis, and you know wut, I sold it back. Yea, it was just a bad product as I thought.. Only the outside of the actual product was great. The packaging, brand, design just looked cool. Not the actual product itself.. just as I feared.. so yea I just had to return to logitech MX518 again... which I personally think it's one of the best mouse ever made... (not a logitech fan boy, it's just MX518 is legend from the day it came out.. wow that's almost about 5,6years ago already). I go to Korean KB sites too, and they say BW is very poorly made and customer support is terrible. Personally, don't buy Razer products until they really figure out how they should really make their product. They are really poorly made. The products just break down easily, the material made with it is not great, the actual grip or feel of the design is not well made, and etc.. They should really care about the product itself and overall, instead of making their brand looking COOL. They try to make their brand look professional, but the product itself is not made professionally.
P.S. just saying what I think about Razer products. No hurt feelings

[Human]

I am Razer hater too.
Ever since Razer came out, I just looked at the overall design and packaging and I just felt like Razer doesn't really care about the overall quality of their product, but just want to make lots of money out of the brand. Then recently I wanted to get a new gaming mouse. My friend recommended me Razer so I thought, oh maybe they could have got better since it's been years the brand came out. So I tried Lachesis, and you know wut, I sold it back. Yea, it was just a bad product as I thought.. Only the outside of the actual product was great. The packaging, brand, design just looked cool. Not the actual product itself.. just as I feared.. so yea I just had to return to logitech MX518 again... which I personally think it's one of the best mouse ever made... (not a logitech fan boy, it's just MX518 is legend from the day it came out.. wow that's almost about 5,6years ago already). I go to Korean KB sites too, and they say BW is very poorly made and customer support is terrible. Personally, don't buy Razer products until they really figure out how they should really make their product. They are really poorly made. The products just break down easily, the material made with it is not great, the actual grip or feel of the design is not well made, and etc.. They should really care about the product itself and overall, instead of making their brand looking COOL. They try to make their brand look professional, but the product itself is not made professionally.
P.S. just saying what I think about Razer products. No hurt feelings

 
Seems like most Razer whiners(for mice, keyboard, mousepad or whatsoever) are from Asia. Most spoilt or fault pictures or reviews for Razer products are posted at those Asia forum.

Is it because American prefer to support their own product(patented in California, made in China) or simply Asian are too fussy and picky?

[brkim1324]

Seems like most Razer whiners(for mice, keyboard, mousepad or whatsoever) are from Asia. Most spoilt or fault pictures or reviews for Razer products are posted at those Asia forum.

Is it because American prefer to support their own product(patented in California, made in China) or simply Asian are too fussy and picky?

I am in NY, so my Lachesis was from newegg. I don't believe it's about being picky. It's just that grip, feel, and first impression. And obviously, when you try out the actual product.
My experience wasn't too great.
Besides many GSL Korean progamers use Razer products. The Deathadder. So it's not the Asians hate them. It just depends on person to person.
P.S. SlayersBoxer received free gifts from Razer on both Razer SC2 edition mouse and keyboard, but never used them for actual tournaments..

[bhtooefr]

You don't have to use eBay and PayPal to get a Model M...

ClickyKeyboards wants a lot for a 1391401, but here's an 82G3283 for $60, the only thing you lose is the detachable cable (it's not the cost-reduced 42H1292 architecture of the newer boards): http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/9246/subcatid/0/id/503820

[The Solutor]

Are you sure that BWU is better built than BW? From my experience with try BWU and BWE(try it at shop), BWE is definitely better built than BWU(though, it isn't much better).

 
I said just why BWU is built *slightly* better IMHO, i don't like both.

1. Backlit keycaps are very prone to wear and LED bleeding will thus occur.

I have no experience on BWU  wearing (obviously), but in general the problem is widely exaggerated by the backlit haters.

In the last 10 years have used only backlit keyboards, some of them for more than 3 years, w/o any problem of wearing. Including a MS/Razer reclusa (very good keyboard).

Anyway, for sure a Filco with the legends weared out in 3 months is less annoying to use than a Backlit keyboard weared after 3 years.

3. Improperly mounted keyswitches. Some of the keys just randomly slanted to left or right. Many other keys just lifted or sank randomly.

Yes this happen in many keyboard, I don't see any difference betwen BW and BWU here, other than the switch keep in place by 4 point on BWU.

Re-soldering the switches while pushing it should be a thing to do in any keyboard, at least the plate mounted ones.

4. The space bar overlapping with left/right alt which causing it to stuck or drag those keys too when pressed.

I' can't comment here, first time I read it.

P/S: I am a real Razer hater.

I'm with you here.

[pitashen]

Seems like most Razer whiners(for mice, keyboard, mousepad or whatsoever) are from Asia. Most spoilt or fault pictures or reviews for Razer products are posted at those Asia forum.

Is it because American prefer to support their own product(patented in California, made in China) or simply Asian are too fussy and picky?

I can't comment on the product build quality, but it is believable that the customer service oversea might not be as on par as within US. Ducky's got great support in Taiwan/China and almost none in US. Then you might end up having more people complaining/raging about faulty Ducky product on the US side than on the Asia side.

Asians are typically more money conscious (or cheap if you like to put it that way) partly due to the lower minimum wage than US. So a mouse costing 45USD might feel like 80USD for people in Asia, thus the higher expectation. My 2c as an Asian.

[False_Dmitry_II]

There's nothing wrong with using non-lit caps on a back-lit board, I'm actually doing it intentionally.

 
I've actually been wondering for awhile. Do the nonlit caps block the light completely, or does some come up from the cracks around the keys?

[The Solutor]

Usually you still see the illuminated grid, dim but noticeable.

[Smallville]

I might be picking up a AT101W just to try out how different mechanical feels than my rubber dome keyboard. How long would shipping take for the PLUM87 and are there any customs fees? I'm only going to be at my current address for another 2 1/2 weeks, so I don't think it'll reach me in time if I were to order the PLUM87. It does seem like an interesting choice, but wouldn't the PLUM87 be around the cost of a BW after shipping? I'm very impatient when it comes to ordering online :frown:

[Twisti]

Hi I'm new to the forums so take my advice with a grain (if not more) of salt.  Idk where your from but the Das Keyboard with the education discount comes to about ~90 shipped.  I understand sometimes a budget is a budget but just something to think about.

[Smallville]

Hi I'm new to the forums so take my advice with a grain (if not more) of salt.  Idk where your from but the Das Keyboard with the education discount comes to about ~90 shipped.  I understand sometimes a budget is a budget but just something to think about.

I've looked into that and they site said to contact them through email. I'm waiting for a reply now! How do I tell which board has what switches? It doesn't say anything about the switches unless I missed it.

[Chobopants]

After reading the thread, I'd agree with the above. Look at the BW if you want tenkey and the PLUM87 if you want tenkeyless.  The PLUM is really only an issue if you need more than 2+KRO, since their 6KRO was a flop.  For WOW that's not too much of an issue.

The thing to keep in mind when reading people's opinions around here, is that there are a lot of elitests and a lot of very strong opinions.  We're talking about high(er) quality HID, and when guys are spending upwards of $200+ on a keyboard, the tolerance for a slightly inferior device at a more competitive price doesn't seem to balance for them anymore.  Also, in this market segment, a keyboard at the price point you're looking at is going to be a compromise, no matter what.  You need to expect that the possibility may exist for premature failure, or the need to tweak here or there to get what you want.  And that's okay, so long as you know that going in.

As for back-lighting... the problem is that the keycaps aren't going to last forever, period.  When they fail, you'll need to decide if you're going to replace them with a standard non-illuminated caps, or replace the keyboard.  There's nothing wrong with using non-lit caps on a back-lit board, I'm actually doing it intentionally.

One point here: If you're a hardcore PvPer in WoW you'll likely want at least 4KRO. Won't need it in PvE but running/strafing/jumping/casting all the same time isn't uncommon in competitive play.

[Twisti]

I've looked into that and they site said to contact them through email. I'm waiting for a reply now! How do I tell which board has what switches? It doesn't say anything about the switches unless I missed it.

 
You open up a ticket on there support website.  The regular model uses cherry blues and the silent uses cherry browns.  Once you send them a picture of your school ID or whatever proof you are using they will send you a coupon code that will be valid for like a week and a half and you just buy it with that coupon code. The discount is 20% off. Let me know if you have anymore questions.

[Twisti]

One point here: If you're a hardcore PvPer in WoW you'll likely want at least 4KRO. Won't need it in PvE but running/strafing/jumping/casting all the same time isn't uncommon in competitive play.

HEY! I PLAY PvE :3

[Chobopants]

HEY! I PLAY PvE :3

I have played both at a fairly high level of play, they have different requirements. PvE is like a nicely choreographed dance (it was with 40 people anyway, now it's kind of stupid). PvP is a frantic strategic battle that is constantly evolving and utilizing real time mechanics that are not programmed that you must react to as quickly as possible while trying to evade/CS them as well.

They both have their attributes, and apropos to the topic, very different keyboard requirements. You never go into a rote spell rotation in PvP or really ever hold down more than 3 keys at once. Not saying one is better than the other.

[Smallville]

The most I'll be doing is casual PvE so I don't think KRO is a big deal to me. Heck, I'm pretty sure my Logitech Cordless Wave is 2 KRO. I was testing it out and it was reading 1-2 keys only. It also lags when I type fast.

[Twisti]

I have played both at a fairly high level of play, they have different requirements. PvE is like a nicely choreographed dance (it was with 40 people anyway, now it's kind of stupid). PvP is a frantic strategic battle that is constantly evolving and utilizing real time mechanics that are not programmed that you must react to as quickly as possible while trying to evade/CS them as well.

They both have their attributes, and apropos to the topic, very different keyboard requirements. You never go into a rote spell rotation in PvP or really ever hold down more than 3 keys at once. Not saying one is better than the other.

Okay okay

[Twisti]

http://store.daskeyboard.com/Mechanical-Keyboards-Products/b/2258657011?ie=UTF8&title=Mechanical%20Keyboards

Also one option is to go with a refurbished model of a Das.  The education discount is 15% and the stock isn't as readily available.  If they are available they will be on the link I posted.

[mattdurham]

I actually like my BW Razor, though I have a Poker on order to replace it simply because after using a tenkeyless at work I want something smaller for home. The build quality is decent and it is above any cheap membrane for a decent price. I think it is a great entry into mechanical keyboards.

mattdurham

[Wallach]

I figure this is a good thread for my question rather than run off making my own thread:

I just received my first mechanical keyboard in the mail (Das S Ultimate Silent) and while I adore it so far (all 5 of my first typing tests were in the 100-105 WPM range but felt so much better), I can't help but wonder if maybe I should have went with the blue switch model rather than the brown. I chose the Silent originally as I didn't think I'd appreciate the auditory feedback, but really wanted a keyboard with the tactile hit on each keystroke. However in the past few hours that I've used it, I find that I actually really like the sound. That said, the tactile portion on these keys - while great - seems a little more understated that I originally expected.

Those two things in mind, I'm wondering if it might not be a better idea to return it and swap it out for the model with the blue switches. However, this being my first mechanical keyboard, I can't say I know what exactly the blue switch feels like. My question is a bit specific; is the tactile feedback on the blue switch significantly sharper than the black switch? I am a tiny bit concerned about the noise but quite frankly this keyboard already isn't all that quiet to begin with so unless it sounds like I'm smacking a 50 year old typewriter I don't think that will be a big problem (and may actually turn out to be a good thing as I'm quite enjoying the clackety of my new toy). Basically I'm wondering if that feedback is more akin to a mouse click than the feedback of my Das S Silent. Reading other impressions it seems like it simply requires a little more force to get past the actuation point and the main different is more in the sound.

Also as a follow-up question, as I'm kind of looking for an excuse to type more at the moment - is there any concerns as far as keyboard wear when "bottoming out" on keystrokes rather than only hitting the actuation point and releasing? Just curious as it seems to be spoken of around here in a way that made it seem like a bad thing for the keyboard.

[woody]

Those two things in mind, I'm wondering if it might not be a better idea to return it and swap it out for the model with the blue switches.

Just get them both.

[Wallach]

Just get them both.

 
I'm considering it. This is a dangerous place, isn't it...

I was talking to a friend of mine about this tonight and he offered to let me test drive his HHKB2 (I didn't even know he owned one of these), so I'm going to check out the Topre switches before I make a final call I think. Looking at the layout I kind of appreciate what they did with the design of that board, but I'm not sure it has the tactile feedback I'm looking for based on what I've read lurking here. I don't really mind spending the extra cash on it if it turns out to feel right, though.

[brkim1324]

I'm considering it. This is a dangerous place, isn't it...

I was talking to a friend of mine about this tonight and he offered to let me test drive his HHKB2 (I didn't even know he owned one of these), so I'm going to check out the Topre switches before I make a final call I think. Looking at the layout I kind of appreciate what they did with the design of that board, but I'm not sure it has the tactile feedback I'm looking for based on what I've read lurking here. I don't really mind spending the extra cash on it if it turns out to feel right, though.

HHKB 2 pro layout is really great. But it's not really suitable for gaming.
If you play just FPS and casual games, then it is more than fine. I actually owned HHKB 2, and it sure is one of the best keyboards I've used.
Even better and fun to type on than blue. It is different and better. It just blends into your fingers and be almost part of your body as u get used to it.
Defintely recommend it. But if you play SC2, then... I don't know. I actually had some problems playing SC2 with it.
Cause the Fkeys need Fn keys.. I use F1, F2-F5 quite often in the game, and you need 2 hands to operate it. Or stretch out your fingers far as possible...
Where control key is very nice. I love where the Control key is actually. That's where Control key should be! not Caps lock!!
anyway.. Topre switches are not the switches you will know right away if it's good or not. You will know after u use it for quite some time.
They are the switches that get more comfortable and addictive as you type more. It just becomes a joy.
But then again, every mechanical keyboard is too, like my Red
We are just a guide here, won't tempt you to buy every keyboard. Just trying to give a feedback.
Don't listen to others and buy keyboards just they say it's great. Buy one that you want to!

[False_Dmitry_II]

Switch to blues.

They are said to have a more defined tactile bump. They also click.

Supposedly, bouncing right in the area where the switch fires is much more difficult than any of the others though. But that's not been important to me in games that I play.

[Smallville]

I have decided to go with the Das since I can get the student discount. Now I have to decide whether or not I want browns or blues. I do like the clicky sound of the blues but I share the room with my girlfriend so that means she will be in the room most of the time.

[Smallville]

Update: Ordered the Das keyboard with MX Browns because it was quieter than the blues. It should be here late next week

[Twisti]

Grats! Let us know how it is

[brkim1324]

Update: Ordered the Das keyboard with MX Browns because it was quieter than the blues. It should be here late next week

Congrats! I'm sure you will like it!

[Voixdelion]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the adesso is a decent idea, especially for the budget conscious and since its your first mech.  Even after my $1000 exploration of the clickies the adesso mkb-135b was my last major purchase and is my daily driver despite my appreciation for the others in my (newly established) collection.  It is readily available and hasn't been overly cheap-y for me, but then again I have yet to acquire a Filco or a Rosewill to compare against too.  (Though I am considering one of the two as I definitely want another blue Mx board, I may to try to pick one up via trade for one of my rarer models of which I have an extra. Whereas I would probably be ok spending the cash for another adesso, I think I have trouble with the idea of parting with twice as much cash for a Filco that may or may not be twice the board in value to me.)  I will say the keycaps get shiny pretty quick although that may be because I have worked this board more mercilessly than I have any other in my history of computer ownership since I acquired it, but I don't know if I would have noticed details like that without having hung around here long enough to be aware of them.

EDIT>>oops,  didn't realize there was a second page of posts.  Nevermind!  Don't forget to tell us how you like it!  ...And yes, its very very dangerous here.  But maybe worth it, and at least entertaining  =)

[Smallville]

I'm thinking of buying a board with blue switches after I sell the majority of my headphones. I have about $50 in my bank account at the moment (lol)

[Voixdelion]

I'm thinking of buying a board with blue switches after I sell the majority of my headphones. I have about $50 in my bank account at the moment (lol)

 In that case, re-mind the post I said "nevermind" about regarding the adesso if/when you decide to go blue.

[Smallville]

I received my Das yesterday and it feels great. Even though it's refurbished, it looks brand new. I need to learn how to not bottom out while typing now. My girlfriend likes it too! She asked me if she could have it and I laughed at her

[False_Dmitry_II]

Then you told her it was $100+, right?

[Smallville]

Then you told her it was $100+, right?

Actually it was $94 shipped She said it wasn't worth that much in her opinion. Maybe I'll get a cheap Black Alps keyboard or something for her. Or I'll buy an Cherry MX Blue keyboard and pretend I bought it for her.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Could always get this, it's got cherry blues:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-CHICONY-KEYBOARD-5181-BLUE-CHERRY-SLIDERS-/260777196930?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cb7883d82

[Smallville]

Could always get this, it's got cherry blues:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-CHICONY-KEYBOARD-5181-BLUE-CHERRY-SLIDERS-/260777196930?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3cb7883d82

Shipping kills it for me It come sout to be almost $60 shipped

[brkim1324]

Shipping kills it for me It come sout to be almost $60 shipped

Thats more expensive than the keyboard itself...
But that's pretty cheap keyboard compared to other blue switch boards