Author Topic: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!  (Read 7950 times)

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Offline deltr

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Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 12:36:25 »
Hi all!

Shortly after receiving my QFR, I noticed staining on the white keys. It only took oh, I don't know, one day? Pretty frustrating having WASD/LShift/LCtrl/LAlt looking faded so soon. I ventured out and not only found out about this site, but about the methods of keycap lettering removal. I tried degreasers, pine-sol, wd-40, and then 200/1000 grit sand paper. The sanding worked, but it is very time consuming.

Below is a shot of WASD after sanding (EDIT: The WIN key in this picture was sand-blasted [no sanding yet]):



I then began to read about sandblasting. It seemed the only thing keeping people from doing it was simply access to the equipment. Well, I have access to the equipment, so I got down to it.

Here's my test run:



The lettering has seemed to react with either the material in the blaster, or things simply got too hot from the friction. At the same time, one of the pieces came out great. I didn't hold the blaster in one spot, and I know how to shoot paint, so i'm confident it was not my firing method.

It's probably the material shooting out the gun that's causing issues. We have another station setup with glass-shot in it, but it's not sealed and my co-workers aren't crazy about getting that in their lungs.

Anyway, I figured someone would like to see this in the future if they are approaching the same problem I have. For right now, though, I have a white blank PBT set in the mail, and i'm just going to be manually sanding these black ABS POS's.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 January 2013, 12:39:38 by deltr »

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 12:58:42 »
Does the blasting medium get very hot? Almost looks like the heat reactive plastic reacted to the medium and introduced a new 'legend' of random pattern.

Offline deltr

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 13:11:26 »
I would imagine the heat level when the medium impacts the key would be high from just the friction, but the blasting station is in a non-climate controlled warehouse that has an ambient temp of about 40deg(F). I felt the medium that was shot just after it hit the key and everything was cold to the touch.

You're probably right though. Here's a picture of the medium:



My best guess is that one kind of that stuff in there is reacting with the lettering, haha. Damn.

Offline lazerpointer

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 13:17:33 »
I was interested in doing this to my black QFR (original, with branding) case. I guess if you go very slowly and carefully, you can avoid burning / melting the keys?
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 13:42:01 »
Since you have access to the equipment, you could offer vintage doubleshots retexture service... I got some shiny caps I could send to test out. Would make mirror shine $15 doubleshot sets from ebay a much better buy if can retexture.

Offline jcrouse

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Re: Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 13:45:20 »
Since you have access to the equipment, you could offer vintage doubleshots retexture service... I got some shiny caps I could send to test out. Would make mirror shine $15 doubleshot sets from ebay a much better buy if can retexture.

I was going to say something similar with a more sarcastic tone but didn't want to start another small controversy.

Offline Permeability

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 15:16:58 »
ouch.. hopefully you can perfect a good technique
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Offline cobraj

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 16:47:48 »
I would imagine the heat level when the medium impacts the key would be high from just the friction, but the blasting station is in a non-climate controlled warehouse that has an ambient temp of about 40deg(F). I felt the medium that was shot just after it hit the key and everything was cold to the touch.

You're probably right though. Here's a picture of the medium:

Show Image


My best guess is that one kind of that stuff in there is reacting with the lettering, haha. Damn.

When I saw this picture, I first thought it was what was left of your keys LOL

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 17:51:53 »
You can pretty clearly see they got too hot, this is a common problem with sand blasting.
Even metal workers have to watch out for heat distortion due to sand blasting. Classic car restorers have pretty much abandoned it for soda and bead blasting, or acid dipping as the sand just causes a lot of problems.

Lowering the air pressure, gluing the keys to a plate (water soluble glue or try clay), keeping the gun farther away, and most importantly, constantly moving is your only option. Even then it could still end in failure.

Sorry for the bad experience.
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Offline deltr

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 17:59:21 »

When I saw this picture, I first thought it was what was left of your keys LOL
LOL! I should have done that xD
Since you have access to the equipment, you could offer vintage doubleshots retexture service... I got some shiny caps I could send to test out. Would make mirror shine $15 doubleshot sets from ebay a much better buy if can retexture.
I am interested. I only go to work on MWF, though.
I was interested in doing this to my black QFR (original, with branding) case. I guess if you go very slowly and carefully, you can avoid burning / melting the keys?
Moving slowly would build up more heat, but if you are going to be removing the labeling on the case, I wouldn't sandblast unless I was going to blast the whole case..

Offline okooko

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Re: Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 18:03:13 »
Since you have access to the equipment, you could offer vintage doubleshots retexture service... I got some shiny caps I could send to test out. Would make mirror shine $15 doubleshot sets from ebay a much better buy if can retexture.

I was going to say something similar with a more sarcastic tone but didn't want to start another small controversy.

haha lol.

Im not a fan of sandblasting small things =(

Offline deltr

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 18:20:49 »
You can pretty clearly see they got too hot, this is a common problem with sand blasting.
Even metal workers have to watch out for heat distortion due to sand blasting. Classic car restorers have pretty much abandoned it for soda and bead blasting, or acid dipping as the sand just causes a lot of problems.

Lowering the air pressure, gluing the keys to a plate (water soluble glue or try clay), keeping the gun farther away, and most importantly, constantly moving is your only option. Even then it could still end in failure.

Sorry for the bad experience.

I guess there were hot spots. Thanks for the input!

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 23 January 2013, 19:40:39 »
Actually, I would suggest a different media as much as best practices. (Definitely have them secured to something.) I wouldn't go to full shell blasting a la sheet steel work, but I would definitely go for some mixed media in there as well. Remember that you're working with rigid ABS plastics. I would recommend looking up best methods for 1970's and 1980's car restoration, since there's high ABS content - it was the new wonder-plastic - and the other methods like acid dipping can't be used with it.
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Offline engicoder

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 24 January 2013, 11:38:36 »
Second on using a less aggressive medium. Possibly try baking soda.
   

Offline clickclack

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 24 January 2013, 12:36:46 »
Hi delter,

I have a great deal of experience with sandblasting. This includes equipment, technique, and even keycaps. So here are some of my thoughts from around 15 years of experience.

The photos you provided potentially illustrate a couple/few issues. The first being that you were likely far too close to the object as the patern on the stroke looks narrow and the "burn in" is a very tiny circle. The second is that with that distance you were likely going far to slow as well. The amount of dig is not that clear but it looks significant and perhaps that line pressure is bit high as well for this particular application. In the even that your nozzle is really tiny and it's a small booth then I would still suggest moving a bit further back, completing a full pass (as you already likely know from your shooting experience) and perhaps turning down the pressure. If you were at the high end of 80psi I would suggest moving towards 60psi and see what that gets you (while observing distance and patern/stroke). If this happened because you are at something like 100psi+ turn that sukkka waaaay down. Below 50psi you might have issues with getting the lettering to come off nicely without it taking a year. 

You might also try moving transverse to what you were doing. As you are already aware you need so follow the contour of the piece. This is very important when working small around the size of a keycap. ;)  I notice that you are going left to right and "against" the ridges. Try turing the key or spraying in the other direction since following such a tiny contour would be difficult and you want to avoid extra errosion on the edge.

When holding the piece make sure that your device (even if fingers) does not rest above the surface of the object as this could deflect particles or concentrate them to the edges of the piece leaving that more heavily erroded.

Regarding media, I would not go with something fine (baking soda) as the finer the grit and the constant rate at which the blaster works will just make the surface way to fine and will take forever to remove the legends, especially if there is any contour to the legend at all (e.i. raised, recessed). The heavier the grit and the lower the pressure can net you some nice texture similar to some finely textured keys. You could also do two different grits, one for scrubbing and one for finish.

If you're really brave and hate the sandblasting and silicosis (lol), you can try making a heated texture stamp and pressing the key into it and triming off the excess (if needed, but not always necessary). However it does not work well with legends in place and would need to be removed with some other method.

And for a couple quick last notes...
For those that complain about how long it takes to manually sand keys. Get aquainted with a rotary device and practice, maybe try a very soft abrasive wheel or compound. You could also just find a rounded form and place the sand paper around it so that it follows the contour of the keycap and... away you go!

Careful when blasting white or light colored plastics as they can turn grey-ish, usually it's directly due to the media, but not always. Light colors may get darker and dark colors may lighten. A good cleaning (maybe even ultrasonic), or a good coating of your favorite plastic friendly toxic spray.

Oops, one last thing, you can mask of any areas you don't want blasted with some rubbery tape of your choice. Duck tape can work, but it's sometimes a bit messy and holds a poor edge.

Good luck and have fun.

-cc    =)

You can pretty clearly see they got too hot, this is a common problem with sand blasting.
Even metal workers have to watch out for heat distortion due to sand blasting. Classic car restorers have pretty much abandoned it for soda and bead blasting, or acid dipping as the sand just causes a lot of problems.
Lowering the air pressure, gluing the keys to a plate (water soluble glue or try clay), keeping the gun farther away, and most importantly, constantly moving is your only option. Even then it could still end in failure.
Sorry for the bad experience.

Yup, mostly a practice thing. Many think that it's heat that warps the metal but in the vast majority of cases I'm postivie it's the force in which it's being blasted. A heavy mesh size + high pressure will make that metal dance.

Second on using a less aggressive medium. Possibly try baking soda.
That's a bit too fine, but it would give you a very, very, fine texture. It's also terrible to shoot.

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Offline deltr

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 24 January 2013, 16:16:21 »
Hi delter,

words words words

Thanks for the very informative reply! I must say that the gun I was using had a very large nozzle.. I would say 1/2in. The spread out of the nozzle was pretty much the width of the face of the keys. We don't have any smaller nozzles at work. I have since sanded down the keys that had the barf on them and they look just as good as the other sanded keys, so all is well.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 24 January 2013, 16:55:01 »
Yup, mostly a practice thing. Many think that it's heat that warps the metal but in the vast majority of cases I'm postivie it's the force in which it's being blasted. A heavy mesh size + high pressure will make that metal dance.
After having done metal shaping, my thought was that it was a localized hot spot warping it, but I decided to look into it a bit more.

According to experts, and like you said, it's the media hitting the metal that does it. Effectively, you are shot peening the sheet metal, metal that isn't strong enough or properly braced for it. Finer media is unable to exert enough force to warp the metal, hence the use of soda and other materials. 

Obviously heat can be an issue, we can see that on the caps, but it's just not as much a factor as I thought. As soon as I saw "shot peen", it made sense though. Interesting.
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| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
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| KBT Race S L.E.
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| Das Pro
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| GH60
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Offline deltr

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 08:48:58 »
Update (Perhaps not the one you wish to read): PBT caps came in. I'm washing my hands of this mess xD


Offline MattBuzzy

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Re: Sandblast they said! It'll go great they said!
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 09:00:40 »
Haha probably what I would have done myself  ;D