« previous next »
Pages:  [1]     Go Down

Author Topic: SA too heavy for Novatouch?  (Read 5485 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline repuls0r

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 70
SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« on: Sun, 17 July 2016, 23:00:07 »
Hi guys,

I recently silenced my novatouch with hypersphere rings, and then slapped on my set of DZ SA Keycaps.

What i realised after was that the tactile bump felt greatly reduced and I could feel the travel distance was affected by quite abit, the perfect way to describe it was the novatouch just felt sluggish. However when i swapped back to my pbt cherry set, the topre switches came back to life with that beautiful tactile bump and smooth action.

So I was wondering if anyone else has the same experience or could share any insight on this, because I have seen many posts saying how great SA keycaps are when matched with a Novatouch but apparently i just felt like SA caps are just too heavy for the 45g switch.


Many thanks in advance
Logged
Matrix 8XV1.0  |  FMJ 80  |  SKOG  |  TGR Jane CE  |  Orion V2  |  Mech27  |  LZCP  |  TXCP  |  CPSQ  |  TX1800

Offline thatsmrdoctortoyou

  • Posts: 314
  • Location: Oregaahhhnnn
  • Dingo babies
    • IG
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 00:24:37 »
I can't say I have any experience with SA profile and Topre switches. However, I did have a similar experience with SP SA profile keycaps and MX-Clear switches which have a actuation force of 55 cN. With the SA profile the spacebar wouldn't always completely return past the tactile "bump" of the clears which was, understandably, quite annoying.

Anyway, I'm also curious if other Novatouch users have had similar experiences with SA profile caps... some of the SA profile sets look SOOOO good on Novatouches it'd be a bummer if the switch felt different.
Logged

Offline need

  • Posts: 460
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 00:29:58 »
Yes it definitely altered the delicate feel of 45 topre switches
Logged

Offline davkol

  •  Post Editing Timeout
  • Posts: 4994
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 05:21:37 »
Individual SA keycaps may be twice as heavy as, say, thick Cherry, but it's still around 3 g even for larger caps (e.g., 1.5u), which is something like 7 % of 45g Topre's peak force. I can imagine a spacebar might cause some weight-related issues, even though the weight is distributed across a larger area (or more points) in case of stabilized keycaps.
Logged

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 05:51:32 »
I've found SA is too heavy on MX blues and reds, so I imagine Topre would be the same.

Makes the keys even more too light to press, and slows their return.
Logged
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline SBJ

  • Posts: 1191
  • Location: Denmark / The city.
  • Tactile pls
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 07:38:40 »
Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 18 July 2016, 05:51:32
I've found SA is too heavy on MX blues and reds, so I imagine Topre would be the same.

Makes the keys even more too light to press, and slows their return.
Welp, this is terrible news for me.
How are they on greens? Specifically gaterons.
Logged

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2301
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 14:42:35 »
The spacebar issue is an interesting, if alarming one. I use SA keycaps on Filcos and Varmilos built with 45g MX reds and don't have any such, er, problems.

In general I would say that the SA profile isn't too heavy for the NovaTouch, it is simply too heavy for you (i.e., the feel you're after). I am planning to put SAs on the forthcoming RealForce MX board and anticipate having no such complaints.
Logged

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 21:56:27 »
Quote from: StickyBlueJuice on Mon, 18 July 2016, 07:38:40
Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 18 July 2016, 05:51:32
I've found SA is too heavy on MX blues and reds, so I imagine Topre would be the same.

Makes the keys even more too light to press, and slows their return.
Welp, this is terrible news for me.
How are they on greens? Specifically gaterons.

Gaterons greens are 80g, right?  Like MX greens?

I've tried SA on MX green, and it's fine.  Also no MX black.  But MX red or blue they are just way too heavy for my liking.
Logged
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline zephyr11

  • Posts: 56
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 18 July 2016, 22:18:37 »
interesting!

I was just thinking about what keycaps to buy for my incoming novatouch from massdrop.

looks like it will be some thick pbt (if I can find any). don't know what else I should be looking at, want something different but subtle, for use in the office. currently using the taihao doubleshot abs dolch.
Logged

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 19 July 2016, 05:43:25 »
Quote from: zephyr11 on Mon, 18 July 2016, 22:18:37
interesting!

I was just thinking about what keycaps to buy for my incoming novatouch from massdrop.

looks like it will be some thick pbt (if I can find any). don't know what else I should be looking at, want something different but subtle, for use in the office. currently using the taihao doubleshot abs dolch.

I wish I had my Tai Hao Dolch set.
Logged
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline zephyr11

  • Posts: 56
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 20 July 2016, 20:27:17 »
^^^^^^^^^^^


I'm sure you can still find them for a decent price, not like they are stopping production anytime soon right?

here's a potato shot of mine, I swapped some keys out with my wife's black grey set, also from taihao.

IMG_1011 by chewyicecube, on Flickr
Logged

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 21 July 2016, 11:35:37 »
I have the SA Carbon set on my NT and I really the combination. I only wish I had the Penumbra SA set!

Logged

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2301
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 21 July 2016, 13:00:25 »
Hey Hyper, you got a pic of your Carbon-dressed NT?
Logged

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 21 July 2016, 13:25:51 »
Here you go -- my CM NT with Carbon SA:

142995-0

Logged

Offline jerue

  • (Whenever that happens :P)
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1232
  • Location: SC
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 21 July 2016, 16:35:53 »
The novatouch is the only keyboard I find SA keycaps somewhat nice to use on. Everything else just feels weird or too wobbly.
Logged

Offline narbotic

  • Posts: 3
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 21 July 2016, 19:06:21 »
Quote from: jerue on Thu, 21 July 2016, 16:35:53
The novatouch is the only keyboard I find SA keycaps somewhat nice to use on. Everything else just feels weird or too wobbly.

Agreed - SA height greatly magnifies stem wobble. lots.  Using them on zealios felt like a rattly jalopy.

I actually found SA's smooth finish complements the buttery curve of Topre 45g quite well - fluid feel all around.  Silencing my novatouch with ironed EK landing pads sort of ruined it though.  Still curious to try SA w 55g domes.
Logged

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2301
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 22 July 2016, 14:29:18 »
Quote from: Hypersphere on Thu, 21 July 2016, 13:25:51
Here you go -- my CM NT with Carbon SA:

(Attachment Link)

Very nice!
Logged

Offline techmattr

  • Posts: 163
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 22 July 2016, 14:45:39 »
I have Novatouch with Hack'd and one with SA Retro Burgundy both silenced with Hypersphere's rings. It definitely felt different at first but I got used to it after a couple hours. IMO there isn't a better typing experience than SA + Topre.
Logged

Offline breitling

  • Posts: 214
  • Location: Vancouver Canada
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 02:29:07 »
love the feel of SA keycaps on my NT. i only use SA on mine.
Logged

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2301
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 12:02:06 »
Oh man, you guys are torturing me. I want to put SAs on Topre switches real bad, but the Realforce MX won't be out until around Christmas, at the earliest. So much waiting...
Logged

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 17:32:50 »
@zslane: Has there been any updated news on the RF mx? Last I heard is that it will be full-size with variable switch weighting and RGB LEDs. It will be interesting to see how the 30g switches fare under the SA profile caps.

I recall that you favor full-size keyboards. As for me, if the RF104mx is a success, I would like to see a 60% version, although Topre might be too honorable to launch an incursion into the PFU HHKB domain. It might be easier for Topre to make an RF87mx, but I no longer like the TKL format. I also prefer Topre caps on Topre switches -- the two unite beautifully in a well-tuned functional unit. Even so, it might be fun to dress up a 60% Topre mx choosing from the incredible variety of mx-compatible caps, including SA profile, but I would want 45g or possibly 55g domes underneath.



Logged

Offline zslane

  • Posts: 2301
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 17:58:04 »
My understanding is that the Realforce RGB is being aimed for a November-ish release, just in time for Christmas. We'll see if they manage to hit that target.

I think the spring force will be 45cN across the board, it's just that you can adjust where along its travel it actuates. And it is a 108-key board, not 104, which actually works out well for my Space Cadet plans (though I may have to paint one white on my own to really get it the way I want). And as for the backlighting, well, I plan to just disable it and pretend it doesn't exist.
Logged

Offline jessica

  • Formerly CuteDreamsOfYou & Brazzers
  • Posts: 428
  • Location: America
  • HHKB is the only good layout
Re: SA too heavy for Novatouch?
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 23 July 2016, 18:15:38 »
I'd give it a try with different keys, I.E., the stock ones, and then you can get a much more definitive answer.
Logged
Pages:  [1]     Go Up
« previous next »