Author Topic: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward  (Read 44433 times)

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Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« on: Fri, 13 January 2012, 13:46:34 »
UPDATE: This little project has ended, the keyboard is no longer travelling around the world, but rather chose to retire :-)
Thanks to everyone that participated.


I have an old Kinesis Contoured keyboard (Model #110, PS/2, Cherry MX browns) that is one too many (I have 5 more recent ones). Several folks PM'd me and asked if they could buy it, take it, or try it. So I thought why not let every Geekhacker try it out?

The idea is to do it similar to the switch try bags... I'll ship the keyboard to the first person. He/she tries it for a couple of weeks, then ships it to the next person. Everyone will receive the keyboard for free, and will just pay the shipping to send it to the next person.

Please sign up here, I'll only do it if there is enough interest (20 people or more) ! Don't send me PM's, just post your interest in this thread. You must be committed to actually try it, and to ship (at your cost, and with tracking # PM'd to me) to the next person. You should also post your experience with it in this thread.

17160-0

List of participants, I'll keep updating it as folks sign up; no cut-off has been decided yet.

  • sordna (shipped on 2012-01-17)
  • dorkvader (received on 2012-01-25)
  • Dox (received on 2012-03-02)
  • heuristicist (received on 2012-04-12)
  • Zanth (received on 2012-04-30)
  • 500_pts (received on 2012-06-13)
  • Daniel Beaver (received on 2013-03-28)
  • Quarzac (received on 2013-05-02)
  • shrap (received on 2013-06-14)
  • jrockroll (received on 2013-06-28)
  • kurplop (received on 2013-09-04) --> end of the line!)
  • slueth
  • piken
  • dewcorps
  • Krunchy
  • silent-circuit
  • Roguemaster8
  • Changdrew
  • wiredPANDA
  • jblack801
  • Trent
  • ahjota
  • StaCT13

Note: I reserve the right to rearrange the order depending on special circumstances, acts of nature, international shipping considerations, or bribes I might receive :-)
« Last Edit: Sun, 15 September 2013, 12:00:28 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ZeroGraVT

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 13 January 2012, 14:32:23 »
This a great idea, but you should ask for a deposit before sending it out otherwise you may never see it again. Also it would be cool if one side has the red switches so people can compare it to the brown. And Ripster should take first dibs!

Offline alaricljs

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 13 January 2012, 15:05:26 »
Ripster already had amongst the first dibs and turned it down... other than that, very nice of you sordna, tho I have no interest.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 13 January 2012, 15:13:56 »
Yeah, Ripster didn't want it. Actually if he changes his mind, whoever has the keyboard should send it to him and that will be the end of the chain! He won it on various occasions, hey, his 50k post award is coming up too :-)

Anyway, I don't need any deposit, but I prefer senior geekhackers to get it first, it'll be safer than starting with folks who have 1 post. BTW, the keyboard is a little beat up, the switches are rather worn, but regardless, the board is clean and works fine! It will give folks a very good idea of the feel, layout, and ergonomics! The keyboard is even programmable! Make sure you have a PS/2 input on your computer (or a USB adapter).
« Last Edit: Fri, 13 January 2012, 15:31:00 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

fossala

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 13 January 2012, 15:38:20 »
Nice idea sordna. Your acting like a drug dealer giving the first hit on the crack pipe for free.

Offline 500_pts

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 13 January 2012, 16:06:01 »
Mark me as interested.

I dont have 50,000 posts to verify my validity, but i promise ive been hanging around since back in '10 :P
REALFORCE 86u | HHKB Pro 2 | Filco TKL| Filco TKL | Leopold TKL | KBT Race

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #6 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 13:51:14 »
Quote from: 500_pts;489807
Mark me as interested.

I dont have 50,000 posts to verify my validity, but i promise ive been hanging around since back in '10 :P

Yeah, but you have 500_pts, which is probably good enough.
-----
I'm very, very interested!

Offline Quarzac

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 14:50:21 »
I'm interested as well.
Risen from the dead for a model F.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.

Offline slueth

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« Reply #8 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 15:29:03 »
Interested, wanted to buy one used but never saw one available to try.  :d.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #9 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 16:36:42 »
Quote from: dorkvader;490385
I'm very, very interested!

Cool, do you think it will be helpful to the ErgoDox project? Hmm, I wonder if DOX has tried a contoured keyboard before.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 16:56:50 »
I'm very interested as well, so mark me down.

Home: Topre Realforce 87W45  /  Mionix Naos 3200
Work: Topre Realforce 87B  /  Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #11 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 19:04:58 »
Quote from: sordna;490480
Cool, do you think it will be helpful to the ErgoDox project? Hmm, I wonder if DOX has tried a contoured keyboard before.
Beats me, I'd suggest PMing him to see if he wants to borrow the keyboard first. Since the ergoDOX's thumb area is based on the kinesis', I want to compare the spacing/size considerations between the keywells vs. flat, and how they compare to the thumb area.

Offline False_Dmitry_II

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 19:12:02 »
Well, what do you guesstimate US-based shipping to be? I bet that might be a nice thing to know for potentially interested parties.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline Dox

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 19:14:36 »
I never tried a contoured keyboard and I would be very interested in trying it, I don't know how much shipping would cost as I'm in Canada but if it's possible, put me on the list!
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline sordna

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« Reply #14 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 20:32:55 »
DOX, I don't mind the keyboard going abroad, after Dorkvader gets it, he should send it to you since you are collaborating on the ErgoDox project...

Dorkvader, please PM me your mailing info ASAP. Instead of waiting for enough folks to sign up before I ship it out, in the interest of the ErgoDox project I'd like you two to have first dibbs right away. I'll try to ship it Monday or Tuesday at the latest.
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 January 2012, 20:56:19 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline moogatronic

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 21:08:43 »
Quote from: sordna;489691
I have an old Kinesis Contoured keyboard (Model #110, PS/2, Cherry MX browns) that is one too many (I have 5 more recent ones). Several folks PM'd me and asked if they could buy it, take it, or try it. So I thought why not let every Geekhacker try it out?

I'm not interested - I ended up just guessing that all the enthusiasm for this board was true and bought one, but I think your idea is fantastic! It would have saved me a lot of deliberation and worry over a fairly expensive keyboard purchase. It turns out that I love the Advantage more than I could have anticipated... and my enthusiasm here has been edited to not seem annoyingly excessive!

I just found out about the ErgoDox project today and that looks like it addresses the only issues I have with the Kinesis.

Just posting here to give you props for your generosity! My RSI is only mild, the ergo layout isn't strictly required, but I believe that this layout significantly improves *my* human-computer interaction experience. Something to keep in mind if anyone is on the fence about the layout and design. Of course, my impressions are self-subjective, etc..!

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 23:04:23 »
moogatronic, thanks for sharing your thoughts and congrats on the new keyboard!

Folks, it's official, Dorkvader will get the keyboard first, then DOX. I'll ship it sooner rather than later; people can keep signing up.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #17 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 00:48:34 »
is DOX okay to ship internationally back into the US? (alternatively: are there other canadians who want to sign up that are?)
How long do you want us to keep it? If it's what everyone is saying, I'll have to save up and get one (probably by selling some of by current keyboards :p )

Offline boli

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 02:13:22 »
Very kind of you Sordna! I'm doing the same thing at work with my spare (3rd) Kinesis keyboard, because I remember how eager I was to try one out before buying, but didn't have access to one.

Quote from: dorkvader;491438
How long do you want us to keep it? If it's what everyone is saying, I'll have to save up and get one

I guess it it takes a few days to get used to and then a few more days to make you love it and order one or two. My first "victim" at work had it for one week now, I'll have to ask him what he thinks, but I'm expecting at least another trial week...
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 January 2012, 02:24:48 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline In Stereo!

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 02:22:05 »
I'd love the idea of having it for a few days or so as I get quickly bored with keyboards, but I'd immagine the shipping costs to Europe would be to high just to try the thing.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #20 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 02:39:10 »
Quote from: boli;491484
Very kind of you Sordna! I'm doing the same thing at work with my spare (3rd) Kinesis keyboard, because I remember how eager I was to try one out before buying, but didn't have access to one.

I can relate, in my case, I saw one of these keyboards used by a contractor at work (many years ago) and had a chance to borrow it for 2-3 days. Right away I could tell this was the board for me and ordered my first (a white Kinesis Classic) with total confidence, and over time bought several more, both new and used ones. Honestly I doubt I would take the plunge on one, had I not experienced the awesomeness first hand!
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 January 2012, 02:59:49 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline REVENGE

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 03:43:25 »
RAWR! Is that my baby? :D
◕ ‿ ◕

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 10:53:40 »
Yes, it's your retrobrighted one with the doublshot keycaps! It's gonna be famous and travel around the world!

Well, N. America at least.
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 January 2012, 11:01:10 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline REVENGE

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 11:50:35 »
Quote from: sordna;491704
Yes, it's your retrobrighted one with the doublshot keycaps! It's gonna be famous and travel around the world!

Well, N. America at least.

HOOORAY!

I apologize beforehand for the ****ty retr0brighting.  Enjoy it though! I spent hours disassembling and cleaning every square inch of it.
◕ ‿ ◕

Offline sordna

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« Reply #24 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 11:55:18 »
Yes, it's VERY clean. Only caveat is the switches are worn cherry browns, so they're a bit scratchy. Probably good candidates for lubing with Deoxit F100 but I haven't got around to buy that lube. Any recipient want to put F100 (that's the only one I would be comfortable with) on the switches, feel free to do so.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline kps

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« Reply #25 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 14:15:17 »
Quote from: sordna;491771
Only caveat is the switches are worn cherry browns, so they're a bit scratchy.
Interesting. My 12-year-old KB132 gradually lost most of its tactile bump, but didn't get scratchy. Maybe it's because I ran it through the dishwasher once a year.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #26 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 15:14:40 »
You put the entire keyboard in the dishwasher ???
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline REVENGE

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« Reply #27 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 16:53:25 »
Quote from: sordna;491834
You put the entire keyboard in the dishwasher ???
Haha, did you know that even Matias has a section on their website instructing you how to clean your TP3 in a dishwasher?
◕ ‿ ◕

Offline Dox

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« Reply #28 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 16:57:07 »
Quote from: dorkvader;491438
is DOX okay to ship internationally back into the US? (alternatively: are there other canadians who want to sign up that are?)
How long do you want us to keep it? If it's what everyone is saying, I'll have to save up and get one (probably by selling some of by current keyboards :p )
No problem sending back in the US after my tryout. If there is someone else in Canada it might be worth it to send it to him even if he's not the next on the list if that's ok.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline kps

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« Reply #29 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 17:00:33 »
Quote from: sordna;491834
You put the entire keyboard in the dishwasher ???

Yes. Take the caps off and put them in a mesh bag to expose the keys. No heated drying — depending on your dishwasher, ABS might not take it. Rinse with distilled water if the tap water isn't nice. Air dry.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #30 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 17:39:07 »
Are you sure getting soapy water inside the switches is a good idea? It would be hard to rinse it completely, not to mention you might wash out any grease they have on the sliders from the factory. And what about water getting inside the keyboard case and electronics? You're pulling my leg obviously.
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 January 2012, 17:42:13 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline kps

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« Reply #31 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 21:28:11 »
Quote from: sordna;491957
And what about water getting inside the keyboard case and electronics? You're pulling my leg obviously.

Nah. Google 'pcb cleaning dishwasher'.

Offline piken

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« Reply #32 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 21:41:43 »
Quote from: kps;492129
Nah. Google 'pcb cleaning dishwasher'.
I would be interested in the try and forward. I have tried a bunch of MX boards now and have been thinking of trying a Kinesis for a while so put my name in. I would put it as a daily use board for a bit at my work comp (high end programmer, doing 10-20k lines of code a week on avg.)

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #33 on: Tue, 17 January 2012, 01:44:39 »
Cool idea! Advice put away your daily driver for 1 day to force yousef how to type on a kinesiology.
Wtf iPad autocorrect! Kinesis

Offline shrap

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« Reply #34 on: Tue, 17 January 2012, 02:16:11 »
You can add me to the list, although I wonder how long it will take to get used to the layout.

I've seen these kinds of arrangements on other forums, they are called passarounds. Here's an example of their rules for passarounds.

Offline wrtcedar

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« Reply #35 on: Tue, 17 January 2012, 02:30:51 »
Quote from: sordna;489753
Make sure you have a PS/2 input on your computer (or a USB adapter).


I have an extra USB adapter that I could donate to the project. I don't need it now that I've replaced my old PS/2 keyboard with the lovely Kinesis board that I got earlier this month.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #36 on: Tue, 17 January 2012, 18:22:16 »
Quote from: wrtcedar;492259
I have an extra USB adapter that I could donate to the project. I don't need it now that I've replaced my old PS/2 keyboard with the lovely Kinesis board that I got earlier this month.

Thank you so much for offering the adapter, although since you have a Kinesis keyboard, the passaround it won't go through your hands. Hmm, maybe you can send the adapter to dorkvader (if he agrees) so it becomes part of the package ?
Or you can send it later, to whoever recipient doesn't have PS/2 access, and the adapter will become part of the package at that time going forward.

BTW we have the kickoff! The keyboard is on its way to dorkvader, he should have it around Tuesday Jan 24.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #37 on: Tue, 17 January 2012, 23:36:22 »
Yep! If Dox is okay to ship it back to the US, I'll send it to him next. I have a PS2 adapter, but I need it for my Unicomp, so I can't send it out :p

I'm really excited, and I want to work on my "proper" touchtyping before I get it. ( I don't use my pinkies at all.)

How long did you want me to keep it? A week? A fortnight?

Offline Quarzac

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« Reply #38 on: Tue, 17 January 2012, 23:40:06 »
Quote from: dorkvader;493162
Yep! If Dox is okay to ship it back to the US, I'll send it to him next. I have a PS2 adapter, but I need it for my Unicomp, so I can't send it out :p

I'm really excited, and I want to work on my "proper" touchtyping before I get it. ( I don't use my pinkies at all.)

How long did you want me to keep it? A week? A fortnight?
I like you more for using fortnight. Thought you deserved to know. If this was reddit, I'd give you an upvote.
Be sure to let us know what you think of the board, of course. I'm particularly interested to know how it helps your touch typing. I have what is possibly the worlds worst typing style, and would consider investing in one of these boards if it really made a significant difference for someone.
Risen from the dead for a model F.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #39 on: Wed, 18 January 2012, 00:26:43 »
The OP says "coupe of weeks" so keeping it for a fortnight is what I would expect!

BTW I was a lousy touch typist (still am on traditional keyboards) but this keyboard really coaxes you into touch typing correctly. I'm now a perfect touch typist on this keyboard! Be ready to break any habits though, if you MUST hit 6 with the left hand, or B with your right, it aint gonna happen!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline hoggy

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« Reply #40 on: Sat, 21 January 2012, 03:28:40 »
Sordna, This is a brilliant idea.  

Kudos.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #41 on: Sat, 21 January 2012, 18:02:32 »
Quote from: hoggy;495418
Sordna, This is a brilliant idea.  

Kudos.


This is a brilliant idea and I would like a shot at trying it out.  I ran a similar programme at http://www.head-fi.org

I am not known here, but I am at Head-fi with the same moniker, and I can provide full disclosure of who I am, and am willing to pay into an escrow as extra security.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #42 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:38:17 »
Looks like the keyboard was delivered to dorkvader today!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Barn

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« Reply #43 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 21:08:34 »
Cool idea! Consider this a bump.

Offline dewcorps

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« Reply #44 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 22:09:48 »
If possible, I would like to be written onto the list.

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #45 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 22:44:52 »
Quote from: Zanth;495820
This is a brilliant idea and I would like a shot at trying it out.  I ran a similar programme at http://www.head-fi.org

I am not known here, but I am at Head-fi with the same moniker, and I can provide full disclosure of who I am, and am willing to pay into an escrow as extra security.
Hi there zanth! I've recognize you from head fi!
Quote from: sordna;499017
Looks like the keyboard was delivered to dorkvader today!
Yeah, it came in. I went to an impromptu concert today, and only just got in.

That's gotta be the best job I've ever seen on packaging. Double boxes and everything! When I send it out, I'll probably replace the boxes with nicer ones, though. Thanks for sending the manual.

I'm planning on typing up a sheet to include with it, so people can include their usernames on the list. We'll keep digital records too, but I think it's a good idea to have one in the box. I'll write it up on the selectric later.

Took some "damage photos" of the kinesis. It looks identical to the picture you posted. three minor cracks, I notice there's soap residue on the caps from cleaning. I like the feel.

Haven't plugged it in, but here's a quick impression: the keywells are great! I love how they perfectly follow the finger. it's amazing! This'll really help with my "proper" touchtyping. The thumb clusters are a little "awkward" to my smaller hands, but I got used to the keys there immediately.

Anyway, I'm going to take some crappy cellphone pictures of it in my room (which is messier than an I-spy book) next to my stuff if people want to get an idea of the sizing.

Received: 25 jan. I'll look into sending it out feb 8 ish (Actually, I may be in Houghton, MI for winter carnival, so it might be a bit later, or I can duck over the border for cheap Canada shipping, lol)

Offline sordna

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« Reply #46 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 22:47:47 »
Cool! Please post a pic of the underside of the keyboard too, to show the serial number. Bear in mind the switches are worn/scratchy after 20 years, but you can imagine how great new versions of this board feel with new switches, especially cherry MX reds :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #47 on: Thu, 26 January 2012, 00:41:18 »
yeah, I can take one (with a phone), but posting pictures is still cumbersome. I'll see about getting some pictures up tomorrow after work. I'm typing on it now. It's hard to get used to in some ways. I keep hitting backspace and capslock by mistake. CTRL is also a little weird where it is.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #48 on: Thu, 26 January 2012, 00:52:50 »
Haha, you are hitting the extra keys because your hands are used to doing large movements. With the matrix layout and bowl shape keys are much closer together than conventional keyboards. Your fingers don't need to move around so much, you'll get used to it, just use it as much as you can!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #49 on: Fri, 27 January 2012, 00:02:02 »
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 38720[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 38721[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 38722[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 38723[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 38724[/ATTACH]

So, the images are blurry: it's my phone. You really can't read the serial number. I can maybe convince my roommate to get a picture with his iPod.
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 January 2012, 00:10:18 by dorkvader »

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #50 on: Fri, 27 January 2012, 00:10:53 »
Dorkvader:
I was never a decent typist. I was actually ****ty and it made things very hard for me. Always unnatural and ill-at-ease.

Then I got my first Kinesis AND went from qwerty (trying dvorak) to Kinesis dvorak and ultimately Colemak (qwerty doesn't seem to make sense on a Kinesis). Your fingers move A LOT LESS. I would say that is the major difference along with being split and inclined. The matrix and bowl shape changes everything. I'm a very decent typist now, and I'm comfortable.

What I'm saying is that I didn't change, break bad habits, or learn new skills. It's 99% the keyboard. It's that different (for me).
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #51 on: Fri, 27 January 2012, 00:17:20 »
Quote from: dorkvader;500335
So, the images are blurry: it's my phone. You really can't read the serial number. I can maybe convince my roommate to get a picture with his iPod.

Looking at the photos I can safely say your phone will take good enough photos if:
1. You take them under good lighting (by a window in daytime or under a lamp)
2. You move the phone further away from the keyboard, since it has trouble focusing so close, but focuses fine on more distant stuff.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline FinancialWar

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« Reply #52 on: Fri, 27 January 2012, 00:43:25 »
who pays for the postage?
Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline sordna

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« Reply #53 on: Fri, 27 January 2012, 00:47:05 »
The shipper, so I did in this case. dorkvader will do the same when he ships it to the next person.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Krunchy

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« Reply #54 on: Fri, 27 January 2012, 06:02:44 »
I do love my current stable of keyboards, but I won't deny that I'm concerned about developing cts or something along those lines since I do so much typing.  Basically what I'm trying to say is that I'd be interested in getting in on the try and forward if there's still room for another on the ever-growing list.
Currently hacking away on
IBM Model M || MTek K104 || Dell AT101W || Anne Pro II

Offline sordna

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« Reply #55 on: Fri, 27 January 2012, 09:15:47 »
There's room, keep signing up! I'll compile a list of people that expressed interest in the OP sometime soon.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline heuristicist

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« Reply #56 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 14:10:25 »
I'm interested, and in Canada (Toronto) but a touch hesitant about the shipping costs---I have no idea how big this thing is or how much it weighs. Can anyone give a rough idea of how much it might cost to ship? Then I can be sure about whether I want to give it a go or not...

Offline sordna

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« Reply #57 on: Fri, 03 February 2012, 00:41:32 »
Added list of participants to the OP, along with shipped/received dates. Let me know if I missed anyone. Keep signing up !
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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« Reply #58 on: Mon, 06 February 2012, 20:20:43 »
Quote from: heuristicist;504495
I'm interested, and in Canada (Toronto) but a touch hesitant about the shipping costs---I have no idea how big this thing is or how much it weighs. Can anyone give a rough idea of how much it might cost to ship? Then I can be sure about whether I want to give it a go or not...

I think it weighs close to 1kg. Here are the dimensions from the kinesis-ergo.com website:

Dimensions of keyboard
• Width: 16.5 inches
• Height: Maximum is 2.9 inches high
• Depth (front-to-back): Approximately 8 inch

Of course, it needs to be double-boxed, with padding material, etc, so the package will turn out bigger / heavier than the above numbers.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline heuristicist

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« Reply #59 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 17:58:37 »
1kg ain't bad. I'm in (to confirm, since I was hesitant before). I'm located in Toronto in case you want to try to optimize the order in which people get it to help minimize overall shipping costs.

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #60 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 23:07:16 »
Bytheway, is it okay if I hang onto it for another half-week or so. I just realized my time is almost up, and I need to figure out how to get the new box and packing materials from work. Then I'll get the address of the next in line (Dox isn't it?) and mail it out.

They'll let me take the materials (we normally throw it out), but there's no way I'll be able to bike home with a box that size.

Can anyone recommend a shipping method (ups, fedex, etc) for shipping to Canada?

Offline sordna

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« Reply #61 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 00:04:06 »
Sure you could ship it to Dox early next week. Never shipped to Canada, you gotta shop around a bit, most carriers including USPS allow you to specify package dimentions and weight and get a quote online.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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« Reply #62 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 10:39:57 »
Dorkvader, when will you be shipping the keyboard to Dox ?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline kps

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« Reply #63 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 11:03:03 »
Quote from: dorkvader;508930
Can anyone recommend a shipping method (ups, fedex, etc) for shipping to Canada?
USPS. UPS will screw the recipient with an extortionate 'brokerage fee'.

Offline silent-circuit

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« Reply #64 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 12:00:11 »
I imagine it's much too late to get in line for this, but if possible I'd love to try it out. I'm starting to get RSI issues with my wrists, so this may be a very good thing for me.

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #65 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 12:10:28 »
Quote from: silent-circuit;514251
I imagine it's much too late to get in line for this, but if possible I'd love to try it out. I'm starting to get RSI issues with my wrists, so this may be a very good thing for me.

Where are you?
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline boli

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« Reply #66 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 14:37:16 »
Quote from: silent-circuit;514251
I imagine it's much too late to get in line for this, but if possible I'd love to try it out. I'm starting to get RSI issues with my wrists, so this may be a very good thing for me.

In case Input Nirvana can't hook you up you might wanna consider getting one from Kinesis themselves, they do offer a 60 day money-back guarantee. Sure you'd have to pay twice for shipment if you return it, but it still beats health issues.

Personally I prefer the Advantage LF (special order with Cherry red switches) over the standard one with Cherry browns, but that's personal preference. See link in signature.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 February 2012, 14:39:42 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline sordna

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« Reply #67 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 14:44:42 »
fentek-ind.com honours the 60 day guarantee, and they have free shipping. So I think you would only have to pay for the return shipping, if you're in the US.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Dox

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« Reply #68 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 14:55:12 »
I got it today from dorkvader, triple boxed! But I think he forgot the manual. I haven't tried it yet on my computer but out of the box, the bowl shape/matrix layout is a real pleasure to type on. I will definitively need to break some bad habits to type properly on it.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline jrockroll

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« Reply #69 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 15:38:06 »
i definitely want to try this

Offline sordna

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« Reply #70 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 17:17:41 »
Quote from: Dox;533315
I got it today from dorkvader, triple boxed! But I think he forgot the manual. I haven't tried it yet on my computer but out of the box, the bowl shape/matrix layout is a real pleasure to type on. I will definitively need to break some bad habits to type properly on it.

Wow, my keyboard became an international sensation! Please disregard the switch feel in your evaluation, those cherry browns are like 20 years old, heavily used, and have lost a lot of their tactility as well as their lubrication. You may try a good lube like Deoxit F100 if you wish. Take your time with the keyboard, I want the ErgoDox design to benefit as much as possible from your experience.

Quote from: jrockroll;533348
i definitely want to try this

Added you to the list.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline jrockroll

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« Reply #71 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 09:36:39 »
so we can keep this for couple weeks to try? :D

Offline sordna

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« Reply #72 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 10:33:09 »
Yup, couple of weeks is mentioned in the OP.

I will let Dox keep it for a month though, to help with the ErgoDox design considerations.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Roguemaster8

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« Reply #73 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 23:59:37 »
I'll give er' a go.

Can you add my name to the list Sordna?
CM Storm Quickfire | Dell Quietkey | Unicomp Ultra Classic | KBC Poker

Offline sordna

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« Reply #74 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 00:40:35 »
Quote from: Roguemaster8;534483
I'll give er' a go.

Can you add my name to the list Sordna?

done
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Changdrew

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« Reply #75 on: Thu, 08 March 2012, 22:49:39 »
Do want. Have been using regular keyboards and want to see how a ergonomic keyboard compares.
CM Quickfire Rapid | Filco Majestouch 2 | Filco Linear R | Poker

Offline wiredPANDA

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« Reply #76 on: Thu, 22 March 2012, 16:31:02 »
I'm actually interested in getting into the rotation, as well.  I was originally eyeing a Kinesis Freestyle - moved to the Advantage - and somehow ended up with a Leopold TKL in the end.  Live with RSI issues, so ergo boards definitely have my attention; I just haven't used them as much lately.

I know I'm a newer member to the community - if needed, I can provide PayPal information when/if we ever get that far into the rotation.
| HHKB Pro 2 | Leopold FC660C
| Poker.PANDAclears | ErgoDox (62g Black)

Offline sordna

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« Reply #77 on: Thu, 22 March 2012, 16:34:30 »
Ok, added Changdrew and wiredPANDA to the list.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline shrap

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« Reply #78 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 01:14:55 »
Three and a half months, three users. I might see this keyboard before the end of the year.

It's a great thing you're doing sordna, but this passaround is not for the impatient.

Offline jblack801

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« Reply #79 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 13:29:19 »
This is an awesome idea. I'd love to be added as well if possible.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #80 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 18:22:40 »
Added. Hmm, I was hoping for some experience to be shared from the participants so far, dorkvader, Dox  ??
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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« Reply #81 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 18:40:57 »
Added. I also added in the OP that folks should post about their experience with the keyboard in this thread.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Dox

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« Reply #82 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 19:29:12 »
I was bout to write my impressions on the kinesis so here we go.

It's my third week using the keyboard at work (programmer). I used it for a week at home before to get used to the layout and get up to speed.
I did get some very weird looks and comments when I took it to work.

The first thing I noticed is my bad habits (and the scratchy switches). I never learned the proper typing method before and I usually type the key with the hand/finger that is closer to it when I need it. I also use my pinkies a lot less than I should.
But learning the proper method is a breeze with the kinesis. With the bowl shape and the matrix layout, you are a bit forced to use the proper finger for each column.
The bowl is a bit too deep for my hands, I think the ergoDox will provide a good balance with the slightly staggered matrix layout and will still allow me to use a non perfect typing method that is just faster in some case.
The rubber function keys are just plain painful. I used a AHK script to remap the Esc and F keys on the number row.

The thumb keys are fabulous, I'm glad that I added some more to the ergoDox from the initial 2 but I personally don't have use for more than 6 and the extra keys in my design.
I noticed that at the end of the day, my arms, hands and fingers were much less stressed than with a regular keyboard. If I wasn't building my own keyboards, I would definitively buy one. Sending it to the next person and being stuck with regular keyboard will force me to finish my project. sordna, you can send me the address of the next one on the list.

A huge thanks to sordna for doing this!

Tl;dr: Good keyboard, recommended!
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 March 2012, 19:31:38 by Dox »
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline jblack801

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« Reply #83 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 20:51:50 »
Awesome. Good to read some feedback. I can't wait to try it out.

Offline sordna

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« Reply #84 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 00:18:23 »
Hmm, I believe Zanth and heuristicist are in Canada, wondering if it makes sense for them to get it next, otherwise 500_pts is next.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #85 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 05:30:52 »
Quote from: Dox;559773
I was bout to write my impressions on the kinesis so here we go.

It's my third week using the keyboard at work (programmer). I used it for a week at home before to get used to the layout and get up to speed.
I did get some very weird looks and comments when I took it to work.

The first thing I noticed is my bad habits (and the scratchy switches). I never learned the proper typing method before and I usually type the key with the hand/finger that is closer to it when I need it. I also use my pinkies a lot less than I should.
But learning the proper method is a breeze with the kinesis. With the bowl shape and the matrix layout, you are a bit forced to use the proper finger for each column.
The bowl is a bit too deep for my hands, I think the ergoDox will provide a good balance with the slightly staggered matrix layout and will still allow me to use a non perfect typing method that is just faster in some case.
The rubber function keys are just plain painful. I used a AHK script to remap the Esc and F keys on the number row.

The thumb keys are fabulous, I'm glad that I added some more to the ergoDox from the initial 2 but I personally don't have use for more than 6 and the extra keys in my design.
I noticed that at the end of the day, my arms, hands and fingers were much less stressed than with a regular keyboard. If I wasn't building my own keyboards, I would definitively buy one. Sending it to the next person and being stuck with regular keyboard will force me to finish my project. sordna, you can send me the address of the next one on the list.

A huge thanks to sordna for doing this!

Tl;dr: Good keyboard, recommended!

oh does that mean you're ready for more input from kinesis users for the ergodox? heh

Offline Dox

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« Reply #86 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 17:58:15 »
Always ready for some input but the design as it is right now is pretty much what I'm going for (at least for my first prototype).
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 46260[/ATTACH]
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline jblack801

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« Reply #87 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 18:00:31 »
I really like the look of the prototype. I like the gray chassis.

Offline heuristicist

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« Reply #88 on: Tue, 03 April 2012, 23:07:32 »
I am very likely going to be in California from June through August. I'm far enough down the list that assuming exactly two weeks per person I'll be back in Toronto before it's my turn, but if you want to adjust the order of the people receiving it for proximity (i.e. bump the Canadians up since Dox is also in Canada) then I'm just making it known that I will only be in Canada up until the end of May :D (Technically I'll still be in Canada for the first bit of June but I will be in Montreal for a conference.)

Offline ahjota

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« Reply #89 on: Wed, 04 April 2012, 18:57:55 »
Can you add me to the list, sordna? Fairfax/Arlington, VA.

I love that all of these "try and forward" opportunities are available here at Geekhack.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #90 on: Sat, 07 April 2012, 00:36:25 »
Quote from: heuristicist;566222
I am very likely going to be in California from June through August. I'm far enough down the list that assuming exactly two weeks per person I'll be back in Toronto before it's my turn, but if you want to adjust the order of the people receiving it for proximity (i.e. bump the Canadians up since Dox is also in Canada) then I'm just making it known that I will only be in Canada up until the end of May :D (Technically I'll still be in Canada for the first bit of June but I will be in Montreal for a conference.)

Hmm, given the above info, I'm thinking you should get it next, and then you ship it to Zanth. Then it should be going back to the States. Please PM Dox with your address info so he can ship it to you.

Quote from: ahjota
Can you add me to the list, sordna? Fairfax/Arlington, VA.

OK, you have been added.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline heuristicist

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« Reply #91 on: Sat, 07 April 2012, 11:19:56 »
Quote from: sordna;569589
Hmm, given the above info, I'm thinking you should get it next, and then you ship it to Zanth. Then it should be going back to the States. Please PM Dox with your address info so he can ship it to you.

Done. Thanks! I'm excited to give it a go, plus the time constraints are going to force me to get my desktop up and running. (Install Arch using a Kinesis rather than a standard keyboard... sounds like a great way to get the hang of it!)

Offline StaCT13

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« Reply #92 on: Mon, 09 April 2012, 17:47:21 »
If the thing's still working, I'd like in! I've been meaning to try an ergo-bowl board, especially seeing how my dad's had some wrist issues in the past.

ErgoDox Classic Aluminium (MX Reds) | Leopold TKL Otaku (MX Browns) | Rosewill RK-9000 (MX Blues) | Dell AT101W (Alps Black)

Happily typing in Dvorak

Offline sordna

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« Reply #93 on: Mon, 09 April 2012, 23:30:30 »
What's your state (I'm assuming you're in the US, right?)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline StaCT13

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« Reply #94 on: Tue, 10 April 2012, 16:39:39 »
Yeah, I'm up in Connecticut.

ErgoDox Classic Aluminium (MX Reds) | Leopold TKL Otaku (MX Browns) | Rosewill RK-9000 (MX Blues) | Dell AT101W (Alps Black)

Happily typing in Dvorak

Offline sordna

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« Reply #95 on: Wed, 11 April 2012, 14:16:48 »
Added. Also, Dox, when you send out the keyboard please post about the date you shipped it, and PM me the tracking number. Thanks!
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 April 2012, 14:19:39 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Daniel Beaver

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« Reply #96 on: Wed, 11 April 2012, 15:09:18 »
I eagerly await my turn. I've been wanting to test-drive a Kinesis for awhile now.

Home: Topre Realforce 87W45  /  Mionix Naos 3200
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Offline Dox

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« Reply #97 on: Wed, 11 April 2012, 16:28:55 »
I sent the keyboard to heuristicist yesterday, he should get it before the weekend. Thanks again for doing this sordna!
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline sordna

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« Reply #98 on: Wed, 11 April 2012, 17:32:17 »
I just realized dorkvader still hasn't posted about his experience with the keyboard, dorkvader ?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #99 on: Wed, 11 April 2012, 20:39:47 »
Looks like I owe you all an apology.

First: I've taken forever with the kinesis.
Second: I still haven't posted my thoughts.
Third: I cleaned up my room and found the manual.

I feel like there's not really any way I could have messed up worse. I will do what I can to fix things. I'll see what I can type up from my notes ASAP.

Offline REVENGE

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« Reply #100 on: Wed, 11 April 2012, 21:45:44 »
By the time this is finished, those Cherry Browns will have turned into Blacks!
◕ ‿ ◕

Offline sordna

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« Reply #101 on: Thu, 12 April 2012, 01:20:28 »
Quote from: dorkvader;573393
Looks like I owe you all an apology.

First: I've taken forever with the kinesis.
Second: I still haven't posted my thoughts.
Third: I cleaned up my room and found the manual.

I feel like there's not really any way I could have messed up worse. I will do what I can to fix things. I'll see what I can type up from my notes ASAP.

Cool! As for the manual, hold on to it until the keyboard reaches someone in the US, then you can mail it to them for cheap.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Keyboarder

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« Reply #102 on: Thu, 12 April 2012, 03:03:56 »
Hey sordna, it's great that you're doing this. I would love to try it but seeing as I am a new member i'd understand that you reserve to right to let more established members use it.
This is great for the community though! Thanks for doing this!

Offline jblack801

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« Reply #103 on: Thu, 12 April 2012, 10:53:45 »
Quote from: Keyboarder;573585
Hey sordna, it's great that you're doing this. I would love to try it but seeing as I am a new member i'd understand that you reserve to right to let more established members use it.
This is great for the community though! Thanks for doing this!

Welcome! Get posting and order yourself some keycaps!

Offline heuristicist

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« Reply #104 on: Thu, 12 April 2012, 23:52:20 »
Got the keyboard today! I am unfortunately stuck with several hours of marking, so I can't give it a go until the weekend, but I will post my impressions as soon as I have them. I did put my hands on it for a few minutes to just try typing and have to say that it is weird and is definitely going to take some acclimatization. Installing Arch on my desktop may be a good way to do that :D The only other thing I can say about it is that, while it does feel different, I don't feel some massive ergonomic advantage, probably because my hands are still contorting themselves in the way that's been built up by decades of a standard QWERTY keyboard. OTOH on my TE, which I haven't used all that much, I did feel relatively quickly that it was a bit more comfortable, but I'm still fuming over the non-standard placement of the non-alphanumeric keys to really say more there. The TE is my first mechanical keyboard though so maybe that's what I was feeling.

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #105 on: Fri, 13 April 2012, 13:00:12 »
Like heuristicist, I wen the TE route first (a Canadian thing?) and am excited to have a shot with the Kinesis.  I have a Kinesis Freestyle at work and really enjoy it, even though the keys are pseudo-mechanical.  Thank you again to sordna for offering this try & forward.  Without direct access to the Advantage, I'll admit to being reluctant to buy and then attempt a resell with little loss.  This opportunity will be fruitful.  Many thanks.

Offline heuristicist

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« Reply #106 on: Fri, 13 April 2012, 17:56:02 »
The Freestyle seems annoyingly expensive for what it is. Plus when I first heard of it I was really upset of having to decide between split and mechanical---I think my ideal would be something like a mechanical Freestyle. The ErgoDox does the nice column layout but the non-standard placement of the non-alphanumeric keys on the TE is really annoying to me so far, and IIRC ErgoDox does something along similar lines...

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #107 on: Thu, 26 April 2012, 20:24:25 »
The Advantage is enroute!  I will report back with my experience.  I agree with heuristicist regarding the cost for what the Freestyle is, however, the keys feel mechanical-like (a nice bonus) but the wonder of a near infinite positional plane makes it ridiculously superior to nearly any input device I've ever used.  I'm hoping that Advantage can unseat it, because I really do prefer mechanical keys.

Offline heuristicist

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« Reply #108 on: Sat, 28 April 2012, 18:44:06 »
Sorry for the delay in posting my impressions! I've had a hectic couple of days. The keyboard is now on its way to Zanth. My impressions follow.

So after having spent almost two weeks with the Advantage---not having used it all the time, mind you, as I did have to use my laptop on occasion---I have to say that its biggest strength for me is the hand separation. Seriously, I loved it. It made it viable to sit back in my chair and type that way. The second big advantage is overall comfort; I really felt like the rest position was quite natural for my hands.

I bought a TE a couple of months ago, and that was my first experience with ergonomic (except some miscellaneous Microsoft keyboards here and there) as well as my first long-term exposure to a mechanical (I had picked up a keyboard with blacks and one with blues for about a week). I find that the TE strikes a good balance between a standard keyboard and the Kinesis. It is a good size and the keys feel nice (I didn't get to compare them side-by-side, but my first TE used blues and the replacement uses browns, and I think I like the blues better).

However, the big problem with all of these alternaboards is the funny placement of non-alphanumeric keys. As someone who spends a lot of time in the terminal (and some time coding too, though I didn't get to do any on the Kinesis), this messed me up big time. While I was typing slowly at first on the Kinesis, I'm sure I can get used to the alphanumeric keys pretty quickly (ditto for the TE); but that's because I use them all the time! The non-alphanumeric keys are used more rarely and hence having to use them in non-standard locations really just results in a lot of swearing. I had a friend of mine give the Kinesis a go, as he had always wanted to try one---but after just a couple of minutes of exasperated swearing and "oh my God"s he gave up. I definitely can't blame him. That said, though, the placement of the non-alphanumerics is definitely better on the Kinesis than the TE. I'm out of town now but when I'm back and have my desktop configuration finalized I will definitely be messing with the layout of the TE.

Like I said, I started off pretty slowly on the Kinesis, and that loss in speed is pretty annoying. It doesn't feel quite worth it at first. I set up my desktop with Arch so did a lot of Linux command-line stuff. Once set up I used it for basic daily work (email, Web stuff, but no coding; all of my files for that were on my laptop). Now that I'm on my laptop, though, I am feeling the difference in comfort rather markedly. Still, I can't help but wonder how long it would take to bring my speed back up. I've never had any RSI issues, and I've been typing a lot for almost two decades; but then again I'm relatively young, so I wouldn't expect to. It seems sensible to try and stave it off, but obviously it's hard to get motivated about something that is so far away. I have also played a lot of piano over the last two decades, and I can't help but wonder why we don't hear so much about pianists with RSI issues...

Now, for the more specific comments:
- What is with those ridiculous rubber keys?
- Why the hell does this keyboard make noises? The noises for the lock keys is especially hilarious. I remap Caps Lock to Esc (yes, I'm a vim user) and every time I hit it it makes the funny noise.
- Why no Windows key? I use it for shortcuts :(
- I think I have small pinkies. I have trouble hitting the Q and P keys with my pinkies. I think my pinkies are rather small. That, combined with my usual hand position (fingers relatively flat) makes it hard to to reach these keys. It gets better if I move my wrist up a bit so the fingers curve a bit more.
- I like the 20-degree angle that is induced on the hands. It feels much more natural than 0 or 90, but not as much as I imagine a 45-degree angle would.
- I thought I remembered reading that you're supposed to keep your wrists off of the keyboard. I never did this. I tried taking them off, and I felt like I typed faster, but it was too much to remember to keep them off.
- The arrow key placement is retarded.
- I am a left-thumb spacebar person. The space key on the Kinesis is on the right side.
- Like I said about the non-alphanumeric keys, the placement is better on the Kinesis than the TE. For example, the dash/underscore is on the right side, while it's on the left on the TE. I much prefer having it on the right.

That's all I made note of; if I can think of more I'll add it later. Thanks again to sordna for sending his Kinesis around; I really appreciated the chance to check it out!
« Last Edit: Sat, 28 April 2012, 18:52:15 by heuristicist »

Offline Gerk

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« Reply #109 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 14:01:05 »
I had the same problems with the Kinesis boards and my pinkies ... my pinkies are seemingly just too short to be comfortable on these boards.  My pinkies are so short that it made the resting position on the Kinesis very uncomfortable for me when trying to type as well.  The overall position I had to keep my hands in was not comfortable for me ... my fingers just don't do that whole inward curve well at all.  My fav thing with the Kinesis boards are the separation ... if the keywells were the inverse of what they are I probably would have been very happy on that front.  That said the non alpha-numeric keys also didn't work well for me (the same as your friend).

My ideal ergo keyboard is still non-existant, or at least non-existant from all the boards I've been able to try.  My TE is ok but again the whole "reinvent the wheel" to try and fit all the non alpha-numeric keys into their layouts, which is seemingly is a problem with ALL the argo boards I've tried, is annoying.  The MS ergo 4k comes closest for me in the fact that I like the split, it's comfortable and the keys are all in the right places ... but that said the rubber domes and poor construction on them make me crazy.

It's great that sordna has one of these making the rounds and great reading what others think of them!
Rosewill RK-9000RE (reds) | Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent (browns) | Leopold TKL (browns) | F21-7D "Mechanical Keyboard" (Blue Alps) | Filco Majestouch TKL (blues) | Goldtouch V2 x 2 | Matias Ergo Pro x 2 | Kinesis Freestyle Pro (browns) | Kinesis Freestyle Edge (reds)

Offline sordna

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« Reply #110 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 23:34:24 »
My answers to some of your questions:

Quote from: heuristicist;585145
- Why the hell does this keyboard make noises? The noises for the lock keys is especially hilarious. I remap Caps Lock to Esc (yes, I'm a vim user) and every time I hit it it makes the funny noise.

It's to alert you that you hit caps lock by accident. You can individually toggle both the "click" sound of the plain keys, and the buzz sound of the caps lock / num lock keys if you don't like it. I keep both sounds on actually. Most folks don't use caps lock, so the fact it buzzes by default should be appreciated :-)

Quote
- Why no Windows key? I use it for shortcuts :(

Newer models (Advantage) have windows keys, you can configure the keyboard for windows, mac, or non-windows PC.

Quote
- The arrow key placement is retarded.

After swapping up/down arrows to mimic vi, I find them wonderful, after I got used to them... it took a few days though. But now, having them in such close reach, it's a superb productivity boost. I can even game with them.

Quote
- I am a left-thumb spacebar person. The space key on the Kinesis is on the right side.

The keyboard is remappable without software, you can move the space bar to the other side.

Thanks for writing about your impressions with the keyboard!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline boli

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« Reply #111 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 03:00:59 »
Quote from: heuristicist;585145
Still, I can't help but wonder how long it would take to bring my speed back up.

Can't speak for you, but when I switched to the Kinesis it took me a little over 2 weeks to bring my speed back up (that's also when I ordered a second one, to have one at home and at work), and some more time to get really used to it (at least it was comfortable rather quickly).

Quote
- For example, the dash/underscore is on the right side, while it's on the left on the TE. I much prefer having it on the right.

Same here. The plus/equal sign is on the wrong side of the keyboard instead. I couldn't take it and remapped the whole top row (see pic in signature). Having the ability to remap in keyboard firmware is awesome, there's so much useful stuff you can do. Other remappings I did:
- second Enter key for left hand (right hand is on mouse often)
- all arrow keys on the same hand (left hand for the same reason as above), in a Vi(m) style arrangement
« Last Edit: Mon, 30 April 2012, 03:03:07 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #112 on: Tue, 15 May 2012, 08:11:50 »
I have had a wonderful time with the Advantage and will post impressions shortly.  I require 500_pts' contact info.  I've contacted the user but have not received a response.  In the event I don't, do I merely bump and go on to the next user?

Offline sordna

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« Reply #113 on: Tue, 15 May 2012, 23:15:29 »
Yeah, if 500_pts doesn't respond in by the end of the week, I would ship it to Quarzac. 500_pts would be next in line as soon as he gives signs of life.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #114 on: Wed, 16 May 2012, 01:10:57 »
Cool, thanks sordna.  I'll give 500_pts until Friday then off to the next in the queue.  Many thanks again for this opportunity.  I now realize I am completely locked into a Windows/Command key and figure that a new Advantage would suit me just fine (given more time to adjust to the ergonomics).

Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #115 on: Wed, 16 May 2012, 04:00:02 »
How have I missed this thread until now.  Props on doing this sordna.

Offline heuristicist

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« Reply #116 on: Sat, 19 May 2012, 00:43:28 »
Quote from: Zanth;593805
Cool, thanks sordna.  I'll give 500_pts until Friday then off to the next in the queue.  Many thanks again for this opportunity.  I now realize I am completely locked into a Windows/Command key and figure that a new Advantage would suit me just fine (given more time to adjust to the ergonomics).

Since you've used a Freestyle, please be sure to draw comparisons to it :) The thing itself is only $100 vs. $300 for the Advantage (although if you want the Ascent addon that's another $200, and if you want the larger separation that's another $40...). At any rate I'm probably going to be buy a new keyboard this summer (TE isn't working out for me that well so far) and right now I'm on the fence between a Freestyle, an Advantage, and a standard mechanical keyboard like a Das or something.

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #117 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 11:22:14 »
500_pts sent me his contact info so we are all organized. I will be shipping out on Thursday morning and 500_pts should see it on the 28th.

Offline Zanth

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« Reply #118 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 12:04:44 »
Quote from: heuristicist;595681
Since you've used a Freestyle, please be sure to draw comparisons to it :) The thing itself is only $100 vs. $300 for the Advantage (although if you want the Ascent addon that's another $200, and if you want the larger separation that's another $40...). At any rate I'm probably going to be buy a new keyboard this summer (TE isn't working out for me that well so far) and right now I'm on the fence between a Freestyle, an Advantage, and a standard mechanical keyboard like a Das or something.

I use the Freestyle every day for hours on end at work.  I have a Tactile Pro 2 at home and it is fine because my study is away from the family.  Otherwise the click click tap tap click would drive my wife nuts.  I really like the TP's key depressing but I hate the layout.  Because I have various oddities with my wrists, I require something ergonomic.  Nothing comes close to the range of motion of the Freestyle and the keys are actually quite comfortable.  The only reason I wanted to try the Advantage and likely the TE as well was because I want the feel of the TP2 (or better) but with a comfortable typing experience.  

The aluminum bluetooth Mac keyboard is actually quite nice to type on but again, not ergonomic.  Having enjoyed the pseudo-mec of the Freestyle and the fully mech of the TP2, I'm completely sold.

Out of the box, the Freestyle is simple with no learning curve no muscle memory retraining.  It has the buttons one needs (command key etc) and it is full (number pad is an add-on accessory which I did purchase but rarely use).  The Advantage's key depressing is superior with perhaps as much as 3-5 mm less distance required to achieve character generation yet there is a massive learning curve along with in this instance, a dramatic personal need for a command key.  Recoding is fine and I could live with having to via software or other means, get my command key back, but given I HATE using a mouse unless absolutely necessary, my hot key combinations must work nearly out of the box to have user uptake.  In this instance, the Advantage would be a side project in parallel with what I currently have.

I've read 3 weeks+ to fully integrate the keyboard into normal work day workflows.  I can accept that as a reasonable timeframe but one has to commit to practicing, getting over the frustration of muscles fatiguing or wanting to move and actively forcing oneself to adjust.  This isn't novel by any stretch but it is worth mentioning for anyone throwing down big bucks on a unique input device.  

I could see myself enjoying a TE because of its form factor along with the mechanic keys and the lack of muscle memory required to change over.  The Advantage offers advantages :)  Foot pedals, incredible macro flexibility and the ergonomics along with the nice mechanical keys.  The problems as I see it are the learning curve.  This is obviously well known here and anyone diving in has likely thought about it.  However, one shouldn't downplay the learning curve aspect, not unlike going from QWERTY to DVORAK.

Without a command key, I found the Advantage quite limited and limiting.  I'd say in all fairness that I was not able to give it all that it deserved in terms of my effort.  Yet, the trial was super informative and exactly what I needed.  My next move will be to acquire a TE for a time and if it sticks, I'll stick with it.  The Advantage will be an experiment later on and one that I will commit to but it is a lot to throw down and a lot of work to retrain.

Thank you again to sordna for the opportunity to test out before having to lay out my own cash.  The cost of shipping and duty/tax would have been tough to swallow but this experience and the cost involved was perfect for me to understand what it will take for me to fully immerse myself in what the Advantage has to offer.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #119 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 12:51:01 »
you read 3+ weeks, i did it in less than a week, of course the first 2 days were horrible, but really all you're learn is to use your thumbs more. (i put away my daily driver in order to force myself to learn, i wonder if ppl who spent 3weeks learning the kinesis did the same?)

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #120 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 19:04:08 »
It's much longer for those of us, like me, that still need to learn to touch type properly.

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #121 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 20:22:50 »
that's true, matrix layout forces proper typing, or at least the correct usage of where fingers should go and press.

Offline Quarzac

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« Reply #122 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 20:39:40 »
Ooh, am I next on the list? I forgot all about this, since I signed up four months ago. Sweet!
Risen from the dead for a model F.

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Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #123 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 22:34:19 »
I need to mail the user manual to either 500_Pts or Quarzac, depending on whoever is living in the USA.

Offline heuristicist

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #124 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 15:41:59 »
Quote from: Zanth;597631
I could see myself enjoying a TE because of its form factor along with the mechanic keys and the lack of muscle memory required to change over.


Obviously YMMV but I actually found that the Advantage was easier to get used to than the TE. Form factor isn't an issue for me, but I like having shift, tab, slash, etc. in their usual places. Moving keys around that are less commonly used than the strictly alphabetical keys didn't work out so well for me because of how much I live in the command line. I use keys like slash, pipe, tab, and tilde a LOT so I appreciated that they were in their normal positions on the Advantage. These keys are used infrequently enough that I don't imagine much benefit from making them more (purportedly) ergonomic, but for me frequent enough that moving them around so drastically is really frustrating. A lot of people have also echoed that swapping Ctrl and swap with the TE has been very helpful, which is another example of how their funny placement can be off-putting. Plus there is also the fact that the TE isn't well-supported, which for me initially wasn't an issue, and they handled replacement of my TE that had blues very well, but now that I've used it for a while and I'm seeing more problems I can't get through to them.

TLDR having tried both and currently living with a TE, I'd recommend the Advantage over the TE more or less unanimously unless form factor is a real issue. Just wish they sold blues :/

The ergo sub-forum is probably not the best place to express this view, but I've also started to become of the opinion that ergonomic devices are only really worth it if you have or are starting to see RSI/CTS/etc. Given my disappointment with the TE and the high price of the Advantage (or even ErgoDox) I'm probably going to settle on something like a Filco Tenkeyless (or maybe a FreeStyle, although the inclination attachments are just too expensive) until I start to feel I need an ergonomic keyboard.

Offline Lanx

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #125 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 15:46:10 »
Quote from: heuristicist;598618
The ergo sub-forum is probably not the best place to express this view, but I've also started to become of the opinion that ergonomic devices are only really worth it if you have or are starting to see RSI/CTS/etc. Given my disappointment with the TE and the high price of the Advantage (or even ErgoDox) I'm probably going to settle on something like a Filco Tenkeyless (or maybe a FreeStyle, although the inclination attachments are just too expensive) until I start to feel I need an ergonomic keyboard.

do you believe you can go back to a staggered layout? coming from a matrix one of both the TE or the Kinesis? I mean i can goto a staggered no problem, if it's my netbook/notebook, cuz those are just travel books, but i wouldn't want it to be my daily driver, my fingers are now used to not being contorted lol, cuz if you think about it, your fingers have to do some gymnastics in order to reach some of the keys, even with "proper" touch typing skills.

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 55
Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #126 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 16:35:53 »
Quote from: Lanx;598624
do you believe you can go back to a staggered layout? coming from a matrix one of both the TE or the Kinesis? I mean i can goto a staggered no problem, if it's my netbook/notebook, cuz those are just travel books, but i wouldn't want it to be my daily driver, my fingers are now used to not being contorted lol, cuz if you think about it, your fingers have to do some gymnastics in order to reach some of the keys, even with "proper" touch typing skills.

I generally prefer the feel of the TE but I prefer the layout of my laptop right now. It's far more familiar. Keep in mind that I'm fighting ~15 years of muscle memory on a matrix layout. And while it's true that you might have to do some funny stretches on a staggered layout, the matrix layout (at least how it is on the TE) has its own disadvantages. For example, because I type pretty quickly, typing the "in" bigram means pressing the two keys next-to-simultaneously, which is an annoying stretch on the TE. Plus using my pinkies for Q and P is still tricky. I think my pinkies might be smaller than average or something but I really prefer using my ring finger for those keys, even on the TE, although less so on the Advantage.

Maybe because I started becoming a heavy keyboard user when I was relatively young (10ish), my fingers have grown into a shape more suited for staggered layouts :p
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 May 2012, 16:41:35 by heuristicist »

Offline Lanx

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #127 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 16:41:53 »
idk, i learned "proper" typing at 8 or so and only in the last year have used matrix, i think you should have given the kinesis more of a test run, sounds like the bowl, keywell shape would be better than the column stagger that the TE provides.

Offline heuristicist

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #128 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 16:58:45 »
Quote from: Lanx;598654
idk, i learned "proper" typing at 8 or so and only in the last year have used matrix, i think you should have given the kinesis more of a test run, sounds like the bowl, keywell shape would be better than the column stagger that the TE provides.

Not saying it isn't, only that it may not be worth the money unless you are specifically feeling pain that would be fixed by it, which AFAICT I'm not. I also know someone who had RSI issues and then started using Dvorak on an Advantage. Now she's ditched the Advantage and just uses her laptop with Dvorak and has no problems, so Dvorak would be the cheaper alternative to paying $300 for an ergonomic keyboard.

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #129 on: Thu, 24 May 2012, 01:34:56 »
Quote from: Quarzac;598004
Ooh, am I next on the list? I forgot all about this, since I signed up four months ago. Sweet!

Zanth said in this post that he got the contact info from 500_pts, so your turn comes right after that.

Hey Zanth, please PM me the tracking number once you ship it, thanks!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline boli

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #130 on: Wed, 30 May 2012, 02:42:45 »
Quote from: Zanth;597631
Without a command key, I found the Advantage quite limited and limiting.  I'd say in all fairness that I was not able to give it all that it deserved in terms of my effort.  Yet, the trial was super informative and exactly what I needed.  My next move will be to acquire a TE for a time and if it sticks, I'll stick with it.  The Advantage will be an experiment later on and one that I will commit to but it is a lot to throw down and a lot of work to retrain.

Maybe I'm missing something here but the Advantage I have has two Command keys when in Mac mode. On the picture in the first post both Ctrl become Command in Mac mode, and right Alt becomes Ctrl (IIRC).
And of course you can remap all of them to your heart's content. For an example check out my sig: I wanted 2 Option (Alt) keys and a Ctrl key on the left, so I did make it so.

On a side note despite the TE's more "normal" physical layout, the extra keys they moved around resulted in a steeper learning curve than the Advantage in my (and a coworker's) opinion.
« Last Edit: Wed, 30 May 2012, 02:45:56 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline natas206

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #131 on: Wed, 30 May 2012, 14:45:52 »
Quote from: boli;603662
Maybe I'm missing something here but the Advantage I have has two Command keys when in Mac mode. On the picture in the first post both Ctrl become Command in Mac mode, and right Alt becomes Ctrl (IIRC).

Default Mac Mode:

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #132 on: Mon, 04 June 2012, 22:12:03 »
Hey Zanth / 500_pts, where is the keyboard at? I did not receive any tracking number and didn't see any post saying the keyboard was sent or received. Please update ASAP.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline treigle

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #133 on: Thu, 07 June 2012, 00:57:05 »
Quote from: boli;603662
On a side note despite the TE's more "normal" physical layout, the extra keys they moved around resulted in a steeper learning curve than the Advantage in my (and a coworker's) opinion.

After a few months with both (which I received a day apart), I definitely have to agree. Not only is there a steeper learning curve with the TE, but it's just a little easier to switch back and forth between a "standard" keyboard and a Kinesis than with a TE.
Kinesis Advantage, Truly Ergonomic (ANSI), Filco 87

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #134 on: Fri, 08 June 2012, 18:39:02 »
Ok, Zanth sent me a tracking number, thanks! 500_pts should receive the keyboard on Monday.

Please update us once you get it, 500_pts!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline heuristicist

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #135 on: Sun, 10 June 2012, 22:42:35 »
Quote from: boli;603662
On a side note despite the TE's more "normal" physical layout, the extra keys they moved around resulted in a steeper learning curve than the Advantage in my (and a coworker's) opinion.


My experience echoes this.

Offline jblack801

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #136 on: Wed, 25 July 2012, 13:43:33 »
How's this coming along since geekhack has been restored? Any review from 500_pts?

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #137 on: Wed, 25 July 2012, 21:54:24 »
I still have the manual, and still want to send it to, the person (or the next person) with the keyboard. I don't know about 500_PTS, though. I hope he's still around.

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #138 on: Thu, 26 July 2012, 00:50:04 »
500_pts is still around, we exchanged PMs. He said he loved the keyboard and is ready to ship it to the next person.
I do hope he will write a small review soon.
The next person is supposed to be Quarzac, is Quarzac around? If you are, can you please PM 500_pts with your address?
Please post here too, to let us know if you are still around & interested, or if we should send the keyboard to the next person on the list.
Thanks!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Quarzac

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #139 on: Mon, 06 August 2012, 11:02:07 »
I'm around, but I'm gonna have to delay my shift with the board, as it would currently overlap a move across the country. So let's bump me down the list a person or two and keep things trucking. Sorry for holding things up.
Risen from the dead for a model F.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #140 on: Tue, 07 August 2012, 11:53:35 »
I'm still around and interested (just in case slueth has dropped off, I haven't seen any posts from him recently).

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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #141 on: Wed, 08 August 2012, 01:49:46 »
Slueth / Daniel Beaver,
please contact 500_pts directly. If Slueth doesn't make arrangements till Friday, then you should get it next Daniel Beaver.

I'll put Quarzac after you two on the list.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline shrap

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #142 on: Wed, 08 August 2012, 23:23:16 »
Awesome this thread is still going! Only six more months till I might be next!

Offline Trent

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #143 on: Sun, 19 August 2012, 00:03:30 »
I am interested if sign ups are still available.
Quote from: Trent
I hate fun
IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | FK-2000 | FK-8000 | FK-9000 | Fujitsu Peerless | Zenith Data Systems (Yellow ALPS!) | AEK

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #144 on: Sun, 19 August 2012, 18:20:15 »
Ok, replaced dante with Trent in the list.

Hope 500_pts sends the board to slueth soon, slueth told me he PM'd his address to 500_pts.
Also 500_pts, please make sure to post your thoughts/experience with this keyboard, that is a requirement for all participants :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #145 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 00:39:20 »
Any update folks? I'm starting to get worried for the first time regarding this effort.

Where is 500_pts and Slueth ? Where is the keyboard ?

Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline slueth

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #146 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 19:33:30 »
I sent my address to him, he hasn't responded or sent me the keyboard :/

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #147 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 20:40:51 »
Do you have his email address, maybe you can try to contact him that way.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline slueth

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #148 on: Mon, 01 October 2012, 16:54:10 »
Sorry don't have his email.

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #149 on: Mon, 01 October 2012, 20:35:32 »
Zanth, how about you, since you sent the keyboard to 500_pts you must have his contact info. I never expected 500_pts to disappear with my keyboard like this :-(
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline __red__

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #150 on: Sun, 07 October 2012, 08:49:35 »
What city it's he in?  Maybe there's a geekhacker close enough to help him ship it in case he's fallen on hard times or something.

Offline StaCT13

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #151 on: Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:48:06 »
At this point, I'm really hoping this thing isn't dead. But, with the month-long gaps between posts, I honestly have no clue.

Don't mean to be a downer, just trying to get this thing rolling again. I'm still really interested in trying this thing out!

ErgoDox Classic Aluminium (MX Reds) | Leopold TKL Otaku (MX Browns) | Rosewill RK-9000 (MX Blues) | Dell AT101W (Alps Black)

Happily typing in Dvorak

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #152 on: Thu, 25 October 2012, 22:57:21 »
If you can get 500_pts to respond, please be my guest. This would be still going strong, but unfortunately he disappeared with my keyboard.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline xsphat

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #153 on: Sun, 18 November 2012, 08:44:52 »
This sucks, sorry to hear about it. Did you ever get your keyboard back or hear from the guy?

Offline MissMurd3r84

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #154 on: Sun, 18 November 2012, 08:49:51 »
Hmm. He was last active on the 9th November.
KBC Poker - Red switches. Noppoo Choc Mini - Black switches. Leopold FC700R (White) - Blue switches. Ducky YOTD - Brown switches. Razer BW - Blue switches and rusted.

Offline xsphat

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #155 on: Sun, 18 November 2012, 18:26:49 »
I would have so signed up for this, but i would have passed it on at  the end of my turn ... years ago this was done with blank hhkb keysets and all manner if other things.

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #156 on: Mon, 28 January 2013, 23:18:17 »
I've PM'd Slueth, Daniel Beaver (they haven't responded in a few days) and Quarzac asking for their address, which I'll be emailing to 500_pts (we've exchanged some emails, he still has the keyboard).
Whoever wants the keyboard next, better respond to my PM !
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #157 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 15:42:20 »
Just picked it up from the post office, I'm going to give it a whirl at work this week.

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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #158 on: Fri, 05 April 2013, 20:22:41 »
Alright, I've been using it at my office for a week. Impressions:

- There's an annoyingly long learning curve. You need more than a week to get used to this. The lower row keys were especially hard to get used to, because of the straight matrix layout of the keys (which is probably a good thing overall, though).
- The position of the ctrl and alt keys totally blows. They are too far up the board, so you have to move your hand partially out of typing position to reach them with your thumb.
- I could see this being useful as a therapeutic device, but I'm not convinced that it's a good buy for any other reason. The way your hands sit is very pleasing (with the natural wristwrests and the wide spacing in the middle), but it really screws with your muscle memory.

I'm going to box it up and send it to the next person - would that be slueth or Quarzac?
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 May 2013, 10:27:08 by Daniel Beaver »

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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #159 on: Fri, 05 April 2013, 22:02:52 »
Thanks for writing your impressions. The OP has the user order, ask the users for their address by PM. Order is allowed to change if a user has disappeared.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline pyro

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #160 on: Sat, 06 April 2013, 06:54:09 »
I think someone in here said you're not supposed to rest your hands on the keyboard while typing, so maybe if you hover your hands the thumb key positions will work for you. Although I tried and it didn't work for me.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #161 on: Sat, 06 April 2013, 10:54:00 »
I think someone in here said you're not supposed to rest your hands on the keyboard while typing, so maybe if you hover your hands the thumb key positions will work for you. Although I tried and it didn't work for me.
I tried that method awhile back, but it gave me tennis elbow :P

Home: Topre Realforce 87W45  /  Mionix Naos 3200
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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #162 on: Sat, 06 April 2013, 13:12:18 »
Folks, when you type on regular keyboards (which usually don't have a wrist rest) do you anchor your wrists on the desk during typing? That will ruin your hands over time.
Think piano... pianists play and their hands float over the keyboard, it's much healthier.

BTW regarding my keyboard's switches, don't judge brown switches by this keyboard, it's like 20 years old and they are completely worn out. I don't love browns, but they are not as bad as you'll find them on this particular ancient board.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #163 on: Sat, 06 April 2013, 20:33:33 »
BTW regarding my keyboard's switches, don't judge brown switches by this keyboard, it's like 20 years old and they are completely worn out. I don't love browns, but they are not as bad as you'll find them on this particular ancient board.
I'll have to track down a newer board to try them on. The clickyness of blues annoys me.

Home: Topre Realforce 87W45  /  Mionix Naos 3200
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Offline Torious

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 15:09:49 »
Just seeing this thread for the first time -- What a great idea!
I'd like to be added to the list, if I qualify with my meager rep...

I'm in Europe btw, not sure if that complicates things. Perhaps more interested members are in Europe and the keyboard can make its rounds here at some point! (without incurring $30 back-and-forth shipping across the ocean)

Offline wolfv

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #165 on: Sun, 21 April 2013, 15:37:30 »
This is very generous of you sordna.  Please put me on the list of participants.

Offline Quarzac

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 05:15:05 »
Is sleuth next? I'l probably have to forward it pretty soon- it came to me at a kind of lousy time, with a move and a 2 week venture across the country at the end of this week. I may take it home with me, but it depends on if I can get it in my luggage. The thing is pretty beat up, so I am hesitant to do so.
Risen from the dead for a model F.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #167 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 09:03:42 »
When did you receive it? I'd like to update the OP with the date. It's up to you whether to keep it or forward it.
Slueth was supposed to be before you, but guess he did not respond; he hasn't logged in in a while.
You can try to PM Slueth and Piken if you want to forward it before your move, and see who responds... the OP has the intended order of participants, but they have to be responsive :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline daerid

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #168 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 10:18:28 »
I'm curious. Please put me at the end of the list. I'll be moving on June 1st, so my address is still up in the air.

Offline vvp

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #169 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 13:57:19 »
Is sleuth next? I'l probably have to forward it pretty soon- it came to me at a kind of lousy time, with a move and a 2 week venture across the country at the end of this week. I may take it home with me, but it depends on if I can get it in my luggage. The thing is pretty beat up, so I am hesitant to do so.
I carried one over Atlantic. I bought a bigger bag and put it into the center. It still satisfied airline limits. It went as unchecked luggage. No problem in my case.

Offline Quarzac

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #170 on: Fri, 24 May 2013, 16:25:41 »
Made it across the country with it. I'll forward it before I head back across. While I enjoy the keyboard, it's not for me where I am in my life right now. It is not a keyboard for gaming on, which is how I spend a decent amount of my time. I could see it being an asset when I make my way into the workplace and am typing all day every day, but as a student right now I don't have a great need. It did improve my two handed typing in the short time I used it though. Maybe at some point in the distant future I will pick one up with reds. Thanks for the opportunity!

EDIT: Received sometime around 5-2-2013. Not totally sure when exactly, because there's usually a delay of a day or so from tracking to me, but roughly then.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 May 2013, 16:30:19 by Quarzac »
Risen from the dead for a model F.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.

Offline Quarzac

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #171 on: Wed, 29 May 2013, 22:30:56 »
Have not heard from Slueth or Piken. Sent a PM to the next two people on the list. I really don't want to have to take this thing back across the country.
Risen from the dead for a model F.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.

Offline shrap

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #172 on: Fri, 14 June 2013, 01:09:18 »
I've just gotten the Kinesis from Quarzac, and it's been a maddening few hours.

I'm so used to hitting space with my left hand that my words are all running together, since the left hand thumb buttons are backspace and delete. The modifier locations are a mystery and I miss my Windows key.

Occasionally it'll all fall in place and I'll bang out a word or two without having to think about it, but the learning curve is pretty brutal so far.

Offline vvp

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #173 on: Fri, 14 June 2013, 03:49:45 »
I'm so used to hitting space with my left hand that my words are all running together, since the left hand thumb buttons are backspace and delete. The modifier locations are a mystery and I miss my Windows key.
You can use remap to swap Enter with Delete and Space with Backspace. No need to relearn this.
And yes, Kinessis Contoured is lacking keys badly. It would not be such a big deal if it at least one could remap keypad shift to a key other then the pedal. Then one could get proper layer shifting through keys only. As it is now, the keyboard needs a HW mod to be really good.

Offline natas206

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #174 on: Fri, 14 June 2013, 11:20:44 »
There should be a Windows key on this keyboard.

Is it a USB model or an older PS/2 model?

If it's a USB model, to quickly add a Windows key, enter the default layout (Windows mode) by holding down the equals key and tapping the "w" key (=w). The top four thumb keys, from left to right, will be: Ctrl | Alt | Windows | Ctrl.

If it's an old PS/2 model keyboard, there is an embedded Windows key which you can remap to the top layer. Depending on when it was made, the embedded Windows keys are either located in the "PrintScrn" and "Scroll Lock" keys (or for very old PS/2 keyboards they are in the embedded "h" and "n" keys).

You can easily remap these embedded Windows keys to a top layer thumb key by following the below instructions via Kinesis website:

Remapping bottom layer windows key to top layer:

For PS/2 Contoured keyboards, the Windows key (or Command for Mac users) is located in the embedded "PrintScrn" and "Scroll Lock" keys. If you would like to remap the embedded Windows key to the top layer, follow these instructions:

1). Turn Keypad ON.
2). Press and hold the Progrm key and tap F12 (LED's on keyboard will flash rapidly).
3). Press and release the “PrintScrn” key. (LED's will slow down).
4). Press and release the destination key, for example- Right Alt (LED's will speed up).
5). Press and release the “PrintScrn” key (LED's will slow down).
6). Press and release the KEYPAD key.
7). Press and release the SAME destination key, example- Right Alt (LED's will speed up).
8). Exit by repeating step 2 (LED's will stop flashing).

Now, in this example, the Right Alt key will function as the Windows/Apple Command key when keypad is ON or OFF.

NOTE: For older PS/2 Contoured keyboards, the Windows key is located in the embedded "h" and "n" keys.


Offline natas206

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #175 on: Fri, 14 June 2013, 11:23:55 »
Nevermind. I see this is a Model 110 keyboard, which is about 20 years old and pre-dates a Windows key!

Offline shrap

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #176 on: Fri, 14 June 2013, 11:37:52 »
Well, the problem is that I use both hands for space so switching the keys might not be all that great of a solution. Basically any key other than space is going to be confusing for the thumbs to type at first.

The lack of an inverted T for arrow keys is also quite interesting - it breaks my "right hand on the nav cluster, left hand on the trackball" usage pattern.

It's also weirdly tall - I can't adjust my desk at work so it puts quite a damper on being ergonomic, until I can raise my seat and get a foot stool.

I'm going to put up with the standard layout for at least a week before I start trying to remap my brain again.

I occasionally get flashbacks of using the Typematrix 2030, which has backspace and enter in the center of the keyboard and can be used with both hands. Maybe the problem is that keyboards just need more duplicate keys for the commonly used ones in all kinds of places, instead of pretending there is one good place for each key?

You can use remap to swap Enter with Delete and Space with Backspace. No need to relearn this.
And yes, Kinessis Contoured is lacking keys badly. It would not be such a big deal if it at least one could remap keypad shift to a key other then the pedal. Then one could get proper layer shifting through keys only. As it is now, the keyboard needs a HW mod to be really good.


Offline shrap

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #177 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 20:51:53 »
I PM'ed slueth, piken, Krunchy, and dewcorps about the keyboard.

The first two didn't respond to Quarzac either so I guess they're not interested anymore.

Can we move those two to the bottom of the list (or remove them completely)?

I'd like to get this board to someone else interested with a minimum of fuss.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #178 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 21:28:06 »
The Kinesis is a very different breed of keyboard. I took to it immediately, but even for me there was still an ever so slight adjustment period. But I also tried a couple layouts (qwerty, Dvorak, Colemak at that same time). IT'S NOT A FLATBOARD AND WILL BE VERY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER KEYBOARD YOU HAVE EVER USED. lol That's why you want to try it, right?

I had a Datahand, and didn't care for the side-to-side finger movements in the finger pods. Talk about learning curve.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #179 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 01:07:15 »
I PM'ed slueth, piken, Krunchy, and dewcorps about the keyboard.

The first two didn't respond to Quarzac either so I guess they're not interested anymore.

Can we move those two to the bottom of the list (or remove them completely)?

I'd like to get this board to someone else interested with a minimum of fuss.

So will you send it to Krunchy or dewcorps ? Let me know, and also please PM me the tracking number when you ship.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline shrap

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #180 on: Sat, 22 June 2013, 02:49:08 »
So will you send it to Krunchy or dewcorps ? Let me know, and also please PM me the tracking number when you ship.

I'm still waiting for either to respond.

The Kinesis is a very different breed of keyboard. I took to it immediately, but even for me there was still an ever so slight adjustment period. But I also tried a couple layouts (qwerty, Dvorak, Colemak at that same time). IT'S NOT A FLATBOARD AND WILL BE VERY DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER KEYBOARD YOU HAVE EVER USED. lol That's why you want to try it, right?

I had a Datahand, and didn't care for the side-to-side finger movements in the finger pods. Talk about learning curve.

The issue is that I type very few actual words in my day job. I am much more dependent on where the = key, F3, and ctrl+space is than where actual letters are located.

Offline shrap

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #181 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 20:55:36 »
Shipped to jrockroll.


Offline jrockroll

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #182 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 13:38:39 »
received on 6.28

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #183 on: Thu, 22 August 2013, 10:23:32 »
Ok, who wants to be next ?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline parabum

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #184 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 06:57:42 »
Hi Sordna

I will buy a Kinesis (mostly LF red switches) at the year end and I would be interested to try out your model for a while. However, I live in Germany and perhaps it could do a European tour if there is local interest. I am not sure at the moment how it works with international shipping and customs.   

I recently joined this site and so my 'reputation' is not yet established. Heck, I started thinking about keyboards only couple of months back when I became fairly comfortable with Emacs (started 6 months ago). By the way, it will be my first mechanical keyboard.

Let me know

Offline kurplop

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #185 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 08:28:12 »
When it's convenient to send it to So. Cal. I'd like to try it out.

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #186 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 11:36:06 »
Hi Sordna

I will buy a Kinesis (mostly LF red switches) at the year end and I would be interested to try out your model for a while. However, I live in Germany and perhaps it could do a European tour if there is local interest. I am not sure at the moment how it works with international shipping and customs.   

I recently joined this site and so my 'reputation' is not yet established. Heck, I started thinking about keyboards only couple of months back when I became fairly comfortable with Emacs (started 6 months ago). By the way, it will be my first mechanical keyboard.

Let me know

I'd like to keep the keyboard in the US, the hassle of extra cost/customs/etc is not worth it.

When it's convenient to send it to So. Cal. I'd like to try it out.

Hi kurplop, please PM jrockroll to arrange it. jrockroll, please PM me the tracking number once you ship it to kurplop.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline parabum

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #187 on: Sat, 24 August 2013, 13:47:54 »
Hi Sordna

I will buy a Kinesis (mostly LF red switches) at the year end and I would be interested to try out your model for a while. However, I live in Germany and perhaps it could do a European tour if there is local interest. I am not sure at the moment how it works with international shipping and customs.   

I recently joined this site and so my 'reputation' is not yet established. Heck, I started thinking about keyboards only couple of months back when I became fairly comfortable with Emacs (started 6 months ago). By the way, it will be my first mechanical keyboard.

Let me know

I'd like to keep the keyboard in the US, the hassle of extra cost/customs/etc is not worth it.

OK.  :( 

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #188 on: Thu, 05 September 2013, 09:27:54 »
Ok, kurplop received the keyboard yesterday.

jrockroll, please post your impressions!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline jrockroll

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #189 on: Thu, 05 September 2013, 09:34:55 »
I've never used an ergonomic keyboard before so kinesis was somewhat cool and odd at the same time. For me, it was hard getting adjusted to the layout and I kept trying to adjust my hand position to a non-ergonomic keyboard. HHKB took me 1 day to get adjusted for kinesis took me more than a week. I kept pressing wrong keys getting use to backspace/delete/enter/space was veryyyyy hard. It never got used to my hand but I'm sure with some practice, it'll be a very comfortable keyboard to type with.

Offline athaeryn

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #190 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 12:07:24 »
Is there a waiting list? I'd love to give this thing a try before buying one.

Edit: I see the waiting list. :)

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #191 on: Fri, 06 September 2013, 13:47:37 »
Is there a waiting list? I'd love to give this thing a try before buying one.

Edit: I see the waiting list. :)

Welcome to GH !  So... if you plan to buy it, why don't you go ahead with the purchase, it has a money back guarantee!  I usually get mine from Fentek, they have a good discount and honor the Kinesis 60 day guarantee, with no restocking fee as well (only cost is the shipping charges).
http://www.fentek-ind.com/kinesis_contoured.htm#KinesisAdvantage
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline jblack801

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #192 on: Wed, 30 October 2013, 11:55:53 »
How's this coming? kurplop, enjoying it?

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #193 on: Sat, 02 November 2013, 20:30:16 »
Not sure if you guys checked the OP lately, this journey has ended!  The keyboard has been sold to kurplop.
Thanks to all that participated, if anyone didn't post their experience with the keyboard yet, please do so.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline kurplop

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #194 on: Sat, 02 November 2013, 22:16:15 »
I have been curious about Kinesis for some time and am glad I had the opportunity to finally put it to the test. Thanks Sordna for sending it out on tour. He offered me a fair price and I bought it, thereby ending its long journey.

Most of my guesses about it were confirmed. I found the thumb clusters more accessible than the ErgoDox's; largely attributed to the sculpted thumb keys and contoured board. I now understand why most people complain about the sub par top row switches. I didn't spend enough time on it to get use to its peculiarities but I both like and dislike the concave key wells. The curve seems to require less stretching to reach all the keys which I like but the curve also means a different outward radial path for the keystrokes in different columns. Not necessarily bad but I didn't take enough time to get use to it. I'm pretty slow at adapting to change.

The shape is hard to understand by just looking at pictures and until I opened the package I wasn't quite sure what it would look like and how big it would seem relative to a standard keyboard. Now I know. 

The keyboard fits the hands like a glove and I can see the benefit of Sordna's palm key mod. If I wasn't happy with my ErgoDox, I would consider the Kinesis and would certainly suggest it as an option to others looking for an ergonomic keyboard.

One final note:  By the time I received it, it had several cracks in the body and four or five small chips missing from the edges. Sordna said some were there when he sent it out but it is hard to tell if it suffered additional injury from being shipped around the world for a year and a half. I think it's a testament to the GH community that it actually made it to its final stop!

Thanks again Sordna.