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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 25 April 2016, 16:41:03

Title: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 25 April 2016, 16:41:03
(http://i.imgur.com/4CBuZfM.png)

Since apparently I didn't learn my lesson last time, I'm going to run another Alps Party GB.  Several folks have asked about running another one.  I could have done another 60%, but I wanted to branch out to make more options available for us Alps lovers.  Unfortunately, that means I have a new set of challenges ahead of me.  So here is a rundown of what I have planned.

The boards will be very similar to hasu's 60% PCB.  I really like the ease of use of his work, and I want to emulate it.  As such, the boards will use the ATMega32u2 chip, and will be designed to be compatible with his firmware.  I want the boards to be customizable for the tinkerers and so easy to use that you could give your dear old grandma a soldering iron and set her loose with it.  I plan on doing like before, making everything available in a single package so you are ready to build out of the box.

The boards are going to be designed so that folks can get the TKL standalone, as I expect will be rather popular.  The tenkey will be separate and can be used independently.  The tenkey will be given a USB hub, so that the TKL board or one of your choosing can plug into it without having to clog up your USB slots on the computer side.  As a bonus, you will be able to plug in other things like your mouse with the same abilities.



Dom - 32T 411879 5105234 - This is the smaller TK board.  The hub will not require any programming to use.  I have chosen to use a TUSB2046B as the hub.  This is a state machine, not a proper IC.  This means that it will just work as is.  The USB power is going to be distributed by a TPS2044B chip.  This will automatically turn on the power to the plugged in devices so it doesn't waste while unused.  Note that this will be designed as an unpowered hub.  This means that devices plugged into it will only receive about 100mA, and therefore it will be unsuitable for charging things like your phone.  I could always change the design to use a wall wart, but that seemed like overkill for this application.  Additionally, this board will have some more glue electronics like a second oscillator, an LDO, and extra resistors.  I'm planning on making the board a column longer than is usually used for the TK you would see on a standard ANSI board.  I made this so that tinkerers can add in cool things like a backspace and other keys to their TK.

Rosa - 32T 412174 5087653 - This is the TKL board.  The design will be really similar to hasu's 60%, just with more rows and columns.  I plan on making it so that it fits the extant cases available for TKL boards, since there are plenty available to choose from.  Like my last GB, plates will be available for several different layouts.  Right now I am planning Dell ANSI, Dell stepped ANSI, AEKII ANSI, Dell ISO, HHKB-esque, and Infinity-esque.  People who remember my previous stuff will notice that there are a few missing.  This is because some layouts such as the Dell stepped ISO were much less popular.  If you really want this, just tell me, and I will add it to the list.  My cutting guys were cool about doing lots of different ones.  I'm just lazy, and I don't want to make schematics that won't be used.



My current plan for this project will be the following:

Design TK PCB
Design TK plate(s?)
Use OSHpark and BigBlueSaw to prototype TK
Design TKL PCB
Design TKL plates
Design cases
Find out if anyone around me can cut cases for a reasonable price (this is an unknown at this point)
Set up LLC (I don't want to deal with awkward taxes like this year)
Start GB
Fork hasu's firmware for this project
Order components
Order semi-assembled boards from AdvancedPCB (I used them for my PhD boards)
Order plates cut
Order switches and stabs from Matias
Order shipping supplies
Ship



FAQ

Q: What will be the MOQ?
A: I don't know.  The assembly turn-key will probably require a certain number of boards to be economical, but it is too early to get a quote on that.  The switches will probably work like last time, with 9600 being the magic number for the best price.  Plates will probably be around 25.  Note that these numbers are all just guesses at this point.

Q: How much will it cost?
A: Too early to tell.

Q: Will you be offering powdercoating?
A: Maybe.  Does everyone want that again?  I was happy with how mine turned out for the 60%.

Q: Will I need to bend my own stabilizer wires?
A: Hopefully not.  I'm going to design the plates with the available measurements for stabs harvested from classic boards and the slightly different sizes that Matias uses for maximum compatibility. 

Q: Will you be including caps?
A: No.  There are plenty of options out there for you though.  The plates will be designed to work with caps harvested from common boards like the AT101 and the AEKII.  Tai-hao recently released some Alps doubleshot caps that are pretty nice.  Alpine Winter has already passed, but that set was designed for the 60%.  I think that with this project going forward, it would be the perfect time for someone to do a GB for some Alps caps, but I won't be running it.  I don't have any experience with that process, and it would be best left to someone else.

Q: Can I make a small order if I just need something simple?
A: Yes.  Like last time, if you just need a set of stabs, you are welcome to join the GB for just that. 

Q: Can I trust you?
A: Probably.  I ran a very successful GB for the Alps Party 60%, so I have some precedent.  I also have been around GH for a while, and people will vouch for me being reliable.  It is unlikely I will abscond with your money. 

Q: Will this be available to other communities?
A: Yes.  The GB will go live on DT and /r/mk as well.  Everyone is welcome in my projects.

Q: Will this be non-profit/donation based like last time?
A: No.  The last one was non-profit because I had ulterior motives for doing it, and I was using other peoples design.  This time, things like plates and PCBs will be designed by me. 

Q: So these are going to be expensive?
A: No.  I still want to provide an inexpensive product, and this will be sold with very low markup.  I just won't be reinjecting any profit into the community like after the Alps Party 60%

Q: Can I use your designs to make things?
A: Pretty much.  After things get going, you can PM me for any of the designs.  As long as you are going to make stuff for personal use, I'm totally fine with that.  I even encourage it.  However, making money off my designs or redistributing them will not be allowed.

Q: Will you be making artisan caps for this GB?
A: Maybe.  I have some already sculpted.  Let's wait and see what my schedule looks like when that time comes.

Q: When will this GB go live?
A: When it is ready.  I don't like deadlines.  You can gauge how many steps have been completed from the list.  Be aware that I am in the middle of getting my Ph.D, so I already work ~60 hours per week.  This is not my full time gig. 

Q: What is the best way to contact you?
A: PM.  I get an email every time somebody PM's me, so I am aware of it when you contact me.  See the previous answer for my busy schedule though.

Q: There is something I want that you haven't mentioned (e.g. a special layout).  What do I do?
A: Ask!  I am very obliging.



Progress:

April 25th 2016: I put together a schematic for the TK this afternoon.  The only incomplete portion is the reset switch on the hub.  I'm not sure how the device handles that, so I will probably solve that tomorrow.
More
(http://i.imgur.com/ouXCLjT.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/8rTNanh.png)

April 28th 2016: Completed schematic to design netlist association in KiCAD.  The current design looks like this.
(http://i.imgur.com/LBN8guV.png)
I had hoped to finish laying it out this evening, but it is late and I'm hungry.

May 2nd 2016: Completed Dom PCB and ordered prototypes.
(http://i.imgur.com/mn5GuL4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/q11sjP5.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ilXyxdf.png)

May 3rd, 2016: I made a prospective case for the Dom tenkey pad. 
(http://i.imgur.com/xYiarTS.png)
Quote
The built in standoffs will use 3/8" 4-40 screws.  There is a 5mm thick space below the plane where the PCB will sit so soldering doesn't touch the metal.  There is a 13mm space for the PCB (final will probably be 1.6mm thick), plate, and switches.  The interior has 0.5 mm clearance on each side so there is wiggle room for caps.  The outer edges have a chamfer, the while everything else uses fillet.  The case is 180 degree, aka flat.  There are 4-40 screw holes on the bottom so you can mount feet of your choosing on them.  I plan on making 11 degree angled risers to accompany this case which may be attached with 1/2" 4-40 screws.  There is one slot for the micro USB output, and 3 slots for USB input. 

Also, done today.  To accommodate requests for Monterey Alps support, I have made a pad which supports both SKCM Alps as well as the SMK pins.
(http://i.imgur.com/DZ328Cf.png)

May 13th, 2016: The OSH Park prototypes of DOM came in the mail.
(http://i.imgur.com/io5bvs4.jpg)

May 27th, 2016: The TKL PCB is nearing completion.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZVaeLhz.png)
It has nice features like a diode reference
(http://i.imgur.com/3zwUXdN.png)
Teensy 2.0 support.
(http://i.imgur.com/tZuba7A.png)
Prototyping support.
(http://i.imgur.com/FWkpGWl.png)

June 3rd, 2016: Layouts being vetted for cutting.
More
(http://i.imgur.com/nl62HtD.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/DGqBroV.png)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: need on Mon, 25 April 2016, 16:45:51
I'm interested in buying the Rosa TKL please, thanks.

DON'T DO SKELETON!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Mon, 25 April 2016, 16:50:02
Paging jbondeson
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: romevi on Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:09:44
Hey, that'd be cool!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: McPwned on Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:30:06
The numpad is of interest to me.  If switches are an option, all the better if I can get some Matias linears.

Edit: also a case would be nice
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: gain on Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:41:06
yessssss
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:53:28
Paging jbondeson

Haha, been gone all day and come back to such a nice surprise

 ^-^
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:08:07
Ayyyy, registered excitement :D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: emdude on Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:12:44
Might be interested in the numpad..  :)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: njbair on Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:23:11
Definitely interested
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: laughatpain on Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:25:58
Im on the alps hype train, but i want to see the case
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Mon, 25 April 2016, 19:24:03
My poor wallet....
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: rand77 on Mon, 25 April 2016, 19:40:26
Would be onboard as well. 
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: braidn on Mon, 25 April 2016, 20:23:55
Very much so! Bring it on Blue
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: njbair on Mon, 25 April 2016, 20:36:00
So Blue, I'm not sure what your plans are for case and PCB, but something that fits in the replacement Filco/KBP cases would be awesome. And you could even make it compatible with the Pegasus Hoof and Kitten Paw.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 25 April 2016, 21:06:06
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: lootbag on Mon, 25 April 2016, 21:25:17
Nice timing... my Zenith Z-150 arrived in pretty much 100 pieces.
I can harvest the switches for something.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 25 April 2016, 22:43:19
Hype phase is over.  Wall of text added to the OP with the nitty gritty for what I have planned.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Venatorious on Mon, 25 April 2016, 23:04:18
hnnnnnggg
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: LunarisDream on Mon, 25 April 2016, 23:08:13
Not another masterful scheme for the gf this time?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: McPwned on Mon, 25 April 2016, 23:21:09
Hype phase is over.  Wall of text added to the OP with the nitty gritty for what I have planned.
You mention that caps from (for example) an AT101 will work, but the schematic for the numpad is a grid layout.  Does the schematic just not reflect support for 2u keys, or am I missing something?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 26 April 2016, 01:27:04
Hype phase is over.  Wall of text added to the OP with the nitty gritty for what I have planned.
You mention that caps from (for example) an AT101 will work, but the schematic for the numpad is a grid layout.  Does the schematic just not reflect support for 2u keys, or am I missing something?

That's an unlabeled schematic.  I haven't moved into the technical drawing yet, but you can expect that not all slots will be used for every layout.  The PCB will reflect this by having multiple holes available for certain keys (e.g. enter) to accommodate those who want a vertical 2u and those who, for whatever reason, want something like a 1u with something else above it.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: need on Tue, 26 April 2016, 05:41:41
(http://i.imgur.com/tw5dQLZ.jpg)

Hasu's PCB doesn't support this, but I really want this ISO layout possible.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tjweir on Tue, 26 April 2016, 08:19:13
Split spacebar?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: itzmeluigi on Tue, 26 April 2016, 08:37:36
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tw5dQLZ.jpg)


Hasu's PCB doesn't support this, but I really want this ISO layout possible.

+1 Id also like to use that layout if possible.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: StormyMonday on Tue, 26 April 2016, 09:28:42
So Blue, I'm not sure what your plans are for case and PCB, but something that fits in the replacement Filco/KBP cases would be awesome. And you could even make it compatible with the Pegasus Hoof and Kitten Paw.

Filco Zero clone PCB?

Yummy!!!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: SJHL on Tue, 26 April 2016, 10:19:52
Im interested in the TK!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 26 April 2016, 11:39:23
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tw5dQLZ.jpg)


Hasu's PCB doesn't support this, but I really want this ISO layout possible.

Correct, the ISO AEKII isn't supported by hasu's current version.  I'll see if it is feasible for my design.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: need on Tue, 26 April 2016, 13:41:56
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tw5dQLZ.jpg)


Hasu's PCB doesn't support this, but I really want this ISO layout possible.

Correct, the ISO AEKII isn't supported by hasu's current version.  I'll see if it is feasible for my design.
Good to hear you'll consider it  :)

That would be a life saver to many of us especially in EU, where the US version is really hard to get hold of. However ISO is in abundance here.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: JaccoW on Tue, 26 April 2016, 15:59:01
Well... my girlfriend did ask me when I was going to build her a keyboard with those mountain caps since she is an Alpinist (or a mountaineer as the Americans call it).
Guess it is time I roll up my sleeves. :D

P.s. Love the Q&A bit.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 27 April 2016, 03:43:54
I'm in if the following requests can be done:


I really want a custom metal Alps TKL and I'd love to be able to use both Tai Hao caps and the AEK caps on them just by shifting a switch or two over.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tintoret on Wed, 27 April 2016, 12:50:52
Love this idea. Just got in on the re-up for Alps64, but would probably be down for this depending on when it goes it goes live.

Alpine Winter has already passed, but that set was designed for the 60%.  I think that with this project going forward, it would be the perfect time for someone to do a GB for some Alps caps, but I won't be running it.  I don't have any experience with that process, and it would be best left to someone else.

If there isn't another run of Alpine Winter in connection with this, maybe something like Alpine Meadow?
I did a quick mockup in VV and YCC, with the same additions as Winter. And hopefully with the mountain legends for Win keys.

More
(http://i.imgur.com/yOK0q5Z.png)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 27 April 2016, 12:53:20
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 27 April 2016, 20:30:46
Pics or I don't believe it.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: StormyMonday on Thu, 28 April 2016, 11:20:37
Alpine MeadowTM is a capitol idea. :thumb: I quite like the VCC, but VV seems just a touch dark to me. How do you feel about VAG?

It also seems to me that the meadow should contain some wildflowers ... a wee splash of color, if you will. I've been playing around with a few ideas for the escape key, arrow keys and etc., but I haven't found anything that trips my trigger ... yet.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: njbair on Thu, 28 April 2016, 14:59:47
I love the idea of continuing the Alpine theme, especially having it designed and led by someone else, which shows this is really a community-driven project. I like the colors, too.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 28 April 2016, 20:28:42
Progress update in OP
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 29 April 2016, 14:26:24
Opinion Request: What layouts do you want with a tenkey?

Just the basics?
(http://imgur.com/zaOoqmz.png)

The basics with a little extra?
(http://i.imgur.com/h9YRYYt.png)

Ortho?
(http://imgur.com/3Wfta3x.png)

Gamepad?
(http://imgur.com/iYFZbcM.png)

These are just mockups made with Swill's, not the final designs.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 29 April 2016, 14:30:10
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: romevi on Fri, 29 April 2016, 14:35:06
Opinion Request: What layouts do you want with a tenkey?

Just the basics?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/zaOoqmz.png)


The basics with a little extra?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/zaOoqmz.png)


Ortho?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/3Wfta3x.png)


Gamepad?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/iYFZbcM.png)


These are just mockups made with Swill's, not the final designs.

What's the difference basics and basics with the extra? The game pad is also really neat, but probably won't be as heavily ordered as the basics/basics+extra.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: emdude on Fri, 29 April 2016, 14:39:04
Yeah, I am wondering the same thing.  I think you meant the basic+extra TK to have an additional row?

Edit: I think I would take either a regular TK or the one with the extra row.  Leaning towards the former though.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 29 April 2016, 14:43:50
Opinion Request: What layouts do you want with a tenkey?

Just the basics?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/zaOoqmz.png)


The basics with a little extra?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/zaOoqmz.png)


Ortho?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/3Wfta3x.png)


Gamepad?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/iYFZbcM.png)


These are just mockups made with Swill's, not the final designs.

What's the difference basics and basics with the extra? The game pad is also really neat, but probably won't be as heavily ordered as the basics/basics+extra.

Yeah, I am wondering the same thing.  I think you meant the basic+extra TK to have an additional row?

fixed
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 29 April 2016, 14:45:12
Also, the gamepad is a bit of a goof.  I have no idea if anyone would actually want it, but I want people to tell me what they would like to see, thinking outside of the box of your standard tenkey.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 29 April 2016, 15:37:13
Keycaps are already hard enough to find for Alps, so I think the gamepad layout is a bad idea in that respect.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: njbair on Fri, 29 April 2016, 19:27:52
Basic keypad with the 4 extra keys on top. Let's not get too fancy here.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Mattr567 on Sat, 30 April 2016, 00:58:10
Interested for sure.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: SJHL on Sat, 30 April 2016, 10:07:30
Interested for sure.

+1
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: phoible on Sat, 30 April 2016, 16:18:57
Will this support sideways mounting of the FN switches so that they are compatible with the AEKII keycaps?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: rand77 on Sun, 01 May 2016, 01:07:47
Probably basic, as keycaps might be an issue.   Always a pain sourcing key caps for Alps projects.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: JaccoW on Sun, 01 May 2016, 10:01:31
Basics + extra. It would make for a really useful addition.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sun, 01 May 2016, 16:01:46
Will this support sideways mounting of the FN switches so that they are compatible with the AEKII keycaps?

Thanks for reminding me.  I forget about those silly AEK quirks.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: harlw on Mon, 02 May 2016, 09:22:02
Watching this one.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 02 May 2016, 21:56:22
Oh god it is 10 PM why am I still in my lab?  Oh right, I have no life.

(http://i.imgur.com/mn5GuL4.png)

This is a good thing for you, because it means I finished my PCB for RosaDom.  I'm printing off some prototypes at OSHpark, and ordering some crap from Mouser.

(http://i.imgur.com/q11sjP5.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ilXyxdf.png)

This is the point where I tell you some of the quirks about the board, but I'm so hungry.  I haven't eaten since lunch.  Plus I'm totally going to get chewed out by my cat.  He's a real taskmaster when it comes to me moving Da Bird for him.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: romevi on Mon, 02 May 2016, 22:06:23
:(
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 02 May 2016, 22:30:24
:(

No sads, only Alps.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Hak Foo on Tue, 03 May 2016, 00:48:32
I like that it can be conventional numpad or 20 macro keys.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: emdude on Tue, 03 May 2016, 00:56:02
Wait, that is Rosa?  I thought Rosa was the TKL and Dom the TK.  ;D

In any case, great progress so far, but please eat, and sleep!  :p

Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Hak Foo on Tue, 03 May 2016, 01:27:21
Can we talk about the names for a moment?  It only makes me think of Uncle Scrooge Comics
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 03 May 2016, 06:39:54
Ooh I will be following this.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Tue, 03 May 2016, 10:48:01
I have a suggestion/question - not sure if it's even doable.

This can also extend to Hasu's 60%: Is it possible to make the PCB/Plate not just Alps compatible but also SMK/Monterey switch compatible?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 03 May 2016, 11:33:36
Wait, that is Rosa?  I thought Rosa was the TKL and Dom the TK.  ;D

In any case, great progress so far, but please eat, and sleep!  :p



Oh, thanks for the catch.  It was Dom.

Can we talk about the names for a moment?  It only makes me think of Uncle Scrooge Comics

They are the names of alpine mountains in Switzerland.

I have a suggestion/question - not sure if it's even doable.

This can also extend to Hasu's 60%: Is it possible to make the PCB/Plate not just Alps compatible but also SMK/Monterey switch compatible?

Hmm, I don't know.  Do you have the spec sheet for those?  I don't know have one to go off of.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Lurch on Tue, 03 May 2016, 11:35:13
showing interest
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Tue, 03 May 2016, 11:54:34
Hmm, I don't know.  Do you have the spec sheet for those?  I don't know have one to go off of.

I can't seem to find one .. here is a pic: http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/monterey.htm

That's probably not as detailed as you need; still looking.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Tue, 03 May 2016, 11:57:56
showing interest
interest checked
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:03:38
Hmm, I don't know.  Do you have the spec sheet for those?  I don't know have one to go off of.

I can't seem to find one .. here is a pic: http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/monterey.htm

That's probably not as detailed as you need; still looking.

Yeah, the DT wiki doesn't have anything too useful.  I'd need to know the pin locations and the size of square.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:09:55
Hmm, I don't know.  Do you have the spec sheet for those?  I don't know have one to go off of.

I can't seem to find one .. here is a pic: http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/monterey.htm

That's probably not as detailed as you need; still looking.

Yeah, the DT wiki doesn't have anything too useful.  I'd need to know the pin locations and the size of square.

More switch info here: https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/how-can-you-repurpose-monterey-blues-t12796.html

They are MX size (14x14mm) but I still can't find info on the pins :(  Still looking...
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: SJHL on Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:16:24
It's looking great! :eek:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:17:21
I posted a query in the main forum: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81837.0
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 12:25:34
SMK pins are basically reverse MX. They are plate compatible though which is nice.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 03 May 2016, 14:09:56
More
Hmm, I don't know.  Do you have the spec sheet for those?  I don't know have one to go off of.

I can't seem to find one .. here is a pic: http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/monterey.htm

That's probably not as detailed as you need; still looking.

Yeah, the DT wiki doesn't have anything too useful.  I'd need to know the pin locations and the size of square.
More switch info here: https://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/how-can-you-repurpose-monterey-blues-t12796.html

They are MX size (14x14mm) but I still can't find info on the pins :(  Still looking...

An MX plate is easily designed.  However, the plates cannot be both 14mm square and Alps compatible.  Attempting to do so makes these weird fat cruciform shapes that don't grip the Alps switches properly.

The extra drill holes (hopefully) won't be a big issue.  It depends on their placement.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Tue, 03 May 2016, 15:04:48
BlueNalgene: Someone here has a switch that could help you?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81837.msg2161230#msg2161230
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 03 May 2016, 18:37:22
I have one computer at home with crossfired R9 390's and one at work that appears to be powered by an aging hamster.  Guess which one I decided to do ray tracing renders on?

(http://i.imgur.com/s1jD2ZO.png)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: romevi on Tue, 03 May 2016, 19:05:02
I have one computer at home with crossfired R9 390's and one at work that appears to be powered by an aging hamster.  Guess which one I decided to do ray tracing renders on?

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/s1jD2ZO.png)


Game pad, obviously.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 03 May 2016, 19:28:24
I made a prospective case for the Dom<-(I got it right this time) tenkey pad. 

(http://i.imgur.com/xYiarTS.png)

The built in standoffs will use 3/8" 4-40 screws.  There is a 5mm thick space below the plane where the PCB will sit so soldering doesn't touch the metal.  There is a 13mm space for the PCB (final will probably be 1.6mm thick), plate, and switches.  The interior has 0.5 mm clearance on each side so there is wiggle room for caps.  The outer edges have a chamfer, the while everything else uses fillet.  The case is 180 degree, aka flat.  There are 4-40 screw holes on the bottom so you can mount feet of your choosing on them.  I plan on making 11 degree angled risers to accompany this case which may be attached with 1/2" 4-40 screws.  There is one slot for the micro USB output, and 3 slots for USB input. 

I have no idea what it will cost to produce this yet, I just wanted to have something ready to get quotes with.



Also, done today.  To accommodate requests for Monterey Alps support, I have made a pad which supports both SKCM Alps as well as the SMK pins.

(http://i.imgur.com/DZ328Cf.png)

This option means that you can use SMK switches with the PCB, but NOT the default plate.  However, I expect I will offer plates with the correct 14mm^2 cutouts with this deal as well (don't tell the Cherry fanboys).  Input is requested for what layouts you will be using.  Due to the design of the tenkey with the USB hub, I probably won't be offering the SMK compatible Dom.  The hub chips and glue electronics take up a lot of board real estate.  I haven't designed Rosa yet, but I expect that there will be plenty of room to handle this update. 
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mike52787 on Tue, 03 May 2016, 20:20:27
Heres another idea for your pcb. Please include the traces and pads for the keys between the nav cluster and the arrow keys, that is one thing I love to have on tkl layouts, that way you can use a function layer and have a pseudo numpad, if you want that sort of thing. you could offer another plate design like this as well as traditional tkl, I know I would buy one, im sure others would as well.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 03 May 2016, 22:11:51
Heres another idea for your pcb. Please include the traces and pads for the keys between the nav cluster and the arrow keys, that is one thing I love to have on tkl layouts, that way you can use a function layer and have a pseudo numpad, if you want that sort of thing. you could offer another plate design like this as well as traditional tkl, I know I would buy one, im sure others would as well.

I'm gonna need a picture to see what you mean.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Jokrik on Tue, 03 May 2016, 22:50:14
I made a prospective case for the Dom<-(I got it right this time) tenkey pad. 

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/xYiarTS.png)


The built in standoffs will use 3/8" 4-40 screws.  There is a 5mm thick space below the plane where the PCB will sit so soldering doesn't touch the metal.  There is a 13mm space for the PCB (final will probably be 1.6mm thick), plate, and switches.  The interior has 0.5 mm clearance on each side so there is wiggle room for caps.  The outer edges have a chamfer, the while everything else uses fillet.  The case is 180 degree, aka flat.  There are 4-40 screw holes on the bottom so you can mount feet of your choosing on them.  I plan on making 11 degree angled risers to accompany this case which may be attached with 1/2" 4-40 screws.  There is one slot for the micro USB output, and 3 slots for USB input. 

I have no idea what it will cost to produce this yet, I just wanted to have something ready to get quotes with.



Also, done today.  To accommodate requests for Monterey Alps support, I have made a pad which supports both SKCM Alps as well as the SMK pins.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/DZ328Cf.png)


This option means that you can use SMK switches with the PCB, but NOT the default plate.  However, I expect I will offer plates with the correct 14mm^2 cutouts with this deal as well (don't tell the Cherry fanboys).  Input is requested for what layouts you will be using.  Due to the design of the tenkey with the USB hub, I probably won't be offering the SMK compatible Dom.  The hub chips and glue electronics take up a lot of board real estate.  I haven't designed Rosa yet, but I expect that there will be plenty of room to handle this update.

Seriously count me in for Monterey, I've those heavenly switch sitting for years now
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: engicoder on Tue, 03 May 2016, 23:39:39
Great work so far! Keep posting these updates. I will definitely be participating in this one.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Wed, 04 May 2016, 12:21:36
This option means that you can use SMK switches with the PCB, but NOT the default plate.  However, I expect I will offer plates with the correct 14mm^2 cutouts with this deal as well (don't tell the Cherry fanboys).  Input is requested for what layouts you will be using.  Due to the design of the tenkey with the USB hub, I probably won't be offering the SMK compatible Dom.

Nice work!  As far as layout is concerned, the best for me would be 75%/65% but given the difficulty in sourcing the appropriate keys I'll take whatever you offer as long as the caps aren't sourced from something obscure like a Wang.

Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 04 May 2016, 14:02:51
Opinion Request: What layouts do you want with a tenkey?

Just the basics?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/zaOoqmz.png)


The basics with a little extra?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/h9YRYYt.png)


Ortho?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/3Wfta3x.png)


Gamepad?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/iYFZbcM.png)


These are just mockups made with Swill's, not the final designs.

i really like the game pad.
been wanting to build one for awhile. its on my project list :D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 04 May 2016, 14:21:39
Opinion Request: What layouts do you want with a tenkey?

Just the basics?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/zaOoqmz.png)


The basics with a little extra?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/h9YRYYt.png)


Ortho?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/3Wfta3x.png)


Gamepad?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/iYFZbcM.png)


These are just mockups made with Swill's, not the final designs.

i really like the game pad.
been wanting to build one for awhile. its on my project list :D

I liked it too.  Unfortunately, with the USB hub electronics, it won't be possible using that plate design.  I would be happy to design one for you which is compatible with my layouts though.  What games do you play/keys do you use? (e.g. for MOBAs I would need to have the 4 skills on top with WASD but for space sims I would make a 9pad control area)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 04 May 2016, 14:27:24
Opinion Request: What layouts do you want with a tenkey?

Just the basics?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/zaOoqmz.png)


The basics with a little extra?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/h9YRYYt.png)


Ortho?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/3Wfta3x.png)


Gamepad?
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/iYFZbcM.png)


These are just mockups made with Swill's, not the final designs.

i really like the game pad.
been wanting to build one for awhile. its on my project list :D

I liked it too.  Unfortunately, with the USB hub electronics, it won't be possible using that plate design.  I would be happy to design one for you which is compatible with my layouts though.  What games do you play/keys do you use? (e.g. for MOBAs I would need to have the 4 skills on top with WASD but for space sims I would make a 9pad control area)

when i game i play FPS mostly.
been stuck in Fusion360 alot lately working on designs and such :D
ive been thinking about making a game pad that can also be used for fusion's hot keys

i'm hoping to be able to mill PCB's soon but i'm not at the point where i can design on board controller pcb's just the teensy daughter board stuff -_-
soon i hope. but i have a list of stuff i have to finish first including my mill motion controller upgrade and config :P
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 18:40:55
I'm gonna need a picture to see what you mean.
Heres a pic. This is on my current custom tkl plate that im going to hand wire.
(http://i.imgur.com/p4pfSaT.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 04 May 2016, 19:51:33
If you end up supporting SMK as well I'd be in for two, maybe even three. I think I'd still prefer ANSI (Tai Hao, etc) and AEK support since those are way more common.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 04 May 2016, 20:13:37
Let me ask, who here is going to be using the numpad with the left hand?  Anyone?

Because if so, you might want a few changes to the numpad.  Particularly the "+", "enter" and "0" key orientation.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: StormyMonday on Wed, 04 May 2016, 22:21:48
Let me ask, who here is going to be using the numpad with the left hand?  Anyone?

Because if so, you might want a few changes to the numpad.  Particularly the "+", "enter" and "0" key orientation.

Numpad?

I got a Model M for that!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 04 May 2016, 23:30:26
Right but the "+" and "enter" keys should be put on the left side of the numpad to accommodate a left hand.  If you plan on using it with your left hand ofc.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: wodan on Thu, 05 May 2016, 05:03:01
I'd love to see support for AEKII-ISO support. These are the best quality ISO alps caps widely available over here, would be so awesome to have them supported.

In for one or more TKLs depending on the layout support. Don't forget the ISO crowd ;)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: infodroid on Wed, 11 May 2016, 10:11:38
I would love to have hot-swappable switches on the Dom. I don't even know if this is possible with Alps. But I think such a feature would make for a cool switch tester and/or macro pad.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 11 May 2016, 10:21:34
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 11 May 2016, 12:36:30
I'm still alive, but I got a pseudo-contract job doing 3D cad.  So the past few days I haven't had much CAD inspiration outside of that stuff.  I should have more things soon.

I would love to have hot-swappable switches on the Dom. I don't even know if this is possible with Alps. But I think such a feature would make for a cool switch tester and/or macro pad.

That probably won't be possible, at least with this design.  That would require another level of board infrastructure and a plate redesign.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: infodroid on Wed, 11 May 2016, 16:41:57
I would love to have hot-swappable switches on the Dom. I don't even know if this is possible with Alps. But I think such a feature would make for a cool switch tester and/or macro pad.

That probably won't be possible, at least with this design.  That would require another level of board infrastructure and a plate redesign.

I knew it was a long shot, but I wanted to put the idea out there! Who knows, maybe in TK party 2.0  ;)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: merlin64 on Thu, 12 May 2016, 10:41:20
Any plans for option to put in a display and make this work as a calculator on its own?  :D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 12 May 2016, 13:26:02
Any plans for option to put in a display and make this work as a calculator on its own?  :D

I actually really like this idea.  I think it would take some prototyping to work though.  I'll keep it in mind. 
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: rand77 on Thu, 12 May 2016, 16:36:26
Will this support sideways mounting of the FN switches so that they are compatible with the AEKII keycaps?

Thanks for reminding me.  I forget about those silly AEK quirks.

Those AEK keycaps have extra long stems for the FN keys.   Not only would the switch holes need to sideways, the plate / case would need to be modified / elevated to make sure these keys are not sticking a whole "stem length" from the rest of the keys. 

AEK keycaps have a weird profile and case is uneven from front to back.  Here is a picture showing the profile:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l70v79UasG1qzgz2l.jpg
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: murkey on Fri, 13 May 2016, 01:16:30
Down for TKL PCB/Plate and case if that works out. Especially if it supports AEK layout
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 13 May 2016, 14:05:10
Prototype boards are in from OSH Park. 

(http://i.imgur.com/io5bvs4.jpg)

I already have the components from Mouser, so I will build this up to test soon.  However, I plan on being away for the weekend, so no clue when I will find time to do it.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: CommonCurt on Fri, 13 May 2016, 15:02:37
Good work.

I'll have to wait to see what the TKL case looks like, but I'll probably be in.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: SJHL on Fri, 13 May 2016, 15:33:16
Hype!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Mattr567 on Fri, 13 May 2016, 23:11:39
Looks great.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alh84001 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 04:50:27
Well, count me interested too. TKL alps has been a long time coming.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 17 May 2016, 00:32:01
Because of my regular work, second consulting gig, and devotion to sleeping late, I didn't get as much done as I had hoped.  Here is an incremental update:

1) The TKL is coming together.  I've got the basics organized on the PCB-layout-kicad-magic-box into something which resembles a keyboard.  This took more time than I thought, because making wiring from scratch when every single pin on the ATMega is being used without a stupid number of vias is a pain. 

(http://i.imgur.com/HqpL3Ze.png)

I have the coordinates for all of the holes from Moz's open source TKL layout, and I have begun translating those to the coordinates being used on this board (thanks kicad for putting [0,0] in a corner of the page rather than the corner of the usable area).  As such, I can say with some confidence that I expect this board to be compatible with most extant aftermarket TKL cases. 

2) I have filled out the paperwork to have an LLC created.  I now have my own company.  Why is this important?  There have been instances where GB leaders have disappeared with people's money.  They have even done it after they have had successful previous buys to build confidence.  The LLC will give a measure of accountability to this by making sure that my info for the hole you throw your money into is available to the feds.  That way, if I ever disappear without word while holding your money, you can associate it with the headline "Man Found Impaled by Soldering Iron after Falling Down Stairs: Cat survived by consuming victim's face, water bottle unharmed."

3) Oh god, the sleeping pills are kicking in.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: stoic-lemon on Tue, 17 May 2016, 01:02:50
Love reading your updates.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: merlin64 on Tue, 17 May 2016, 10:09:45
Looks like Ducky got to the Calculator/Numpad idea

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4jkbfn/news_ducky_pocket_mechanical_numpad_calculator/
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Tue, 17 May 2016, 10:26:07
Because of my regular work, second consulting gig, and devotion to sleeping late, I didn't get as much done as I had hoped.  Here is an incremental update:

1) The TKL is coming together.  I've got the basics organized on the PCB-layout-kicad-magic-box into something which resembles a keyboard.  This took more time than I thought, because making wiring from scratch when every single pin on the ATMega is being used without a stupid number of vias is a pain. 

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HqpL3Ze.png)


I have the coordinates for all of the holes from Moz's open source TKL layout, and I have begun translating those to the coordinates being used on this board (thanks kicad for putting [0,0] in a corner of the page rather than the corner of the usable area).  As such, I can say with some confidence that I expect this board to be compatible with most extant aftermarket TKL cases. 

2) I have filled out the paperwork to have an LLC created.  I now have my own company.  Why is this important?  There have been instances where GB leaders have disappeared with people's money.  They have even done it after they have had successful previous buys to build confidence.  The LLC will give a measure of accountability to this by making sure that my info for the hole you throw your money into is available to the feds.  That way, if I ever disappear without word while holding your money, you can associate it with the headline "Man Found Impaled by Soldering Iron after Falling Down Stairs: Cat survived by consuming victim's face, water bottle unharmed."

3) Oh god, the sleeping pills are kicking in.

looking good man
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: infodroid on Tue, 17 May 2016, 13:57:34
Looks like Ducky got to the Calculator/Numpad idea

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4jkbfn/news_ducky_pocket_mechanical_numpad_calculator/

At least they didn't get there first! The ALPSulator (http://www.industrialfacility.co.uk/page/projects/electronics/calculator) came out 5 years ago I believe.

Damn I'm getting old.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Tue, 17 May 2016, 14:06:11
You really should update your KiCAD version..
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 17 May 2016, 14:35:35
You really should update your KiCAD version..

I intend to, however my KiCAD drawings for my PhD were done in the old version.  I tried upgrading, but that broke the drawings to the point that they were unusable.  Once I finish my degree, I will probably feel better about converting. 
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 20 May 2016, 17:07:09
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tw5dQLZ.jpg)


Hasu's PCB doesn't support this, but I really want this ISO layout possible.

Correct, the ISO AEKII isn't supported by hasu's current version.  I'll see if it is feasible for my design.
Good to hear you'll consider it  :)

That would be a life saver to many of us especially in EU, where the US version is really hard to get hold of. However ISO is in abundance here.

Dear AEKII ISO users,

It turns out that there is a reason no one has made a compatible board for this layout.  It is butt**** crazy.  Nearly everything has to be shifted to get it to work.

(http://i.imgur.com/6RlkMTj.png)

Observe this figure I made.  This is a comparison of the Dell ISO layout and the AEKII ISO layout.  You can see all of the differences between the colors here.  This means that in order to enable this compatibility, the entire board has to be doubled up.  I would have to put down a new set of switches for everything.  With the plate wiring, this means that pins will start to over lap and the wiring gets complicated.

But guess what.  I DID IT ANYWAY!  It was very painful, but with a few tricks and pin swaps, I think I have something which will work.  For you technically minded folks, here is a zoom in of some of the things going on near the LCTRL key.  You can see how the switches labeled with the _i1 suffix have been twisted and/or flipped around so that the pins overlap with pins of the same trace.

(http://i.imgur.com/32fG7N6.png)

Did I mention it was painful?  It has taken me a total of 9 hours just to do that conversion.  Needless to say, I'm a little grumpy.  So as punishment for the work that went into making this happen for all those little ISO weirdos, I will now officially refer to all Europeans as "French" regardless of their nationality.  I suspect this should cause an equivalent amount of pain in those who would benefit from this change as the pain inflicted on me to create it.


Love, BN

P.S.

In other news, did you know that I am an idiot?  I ordered parts for the Dom prototype from Mouser ages ago.  I went to assemble it, and I found that I had forgotten to order caps and resistors.  The good news is that all of the most difficult parts to solder by hand are on.  Seriously, I hate SOT-23's.  Also, my advisor let me steal some of his SMD parts to finish out the build.  So I have everything but the 33uF caps, which are not necessary to determine if the thing works.  The bad thing is that I have noticed a few things I need to change.  First, I accidentally forgot to change the 0803 default pad layouts to the correct Panasonic style pads I will be using for the larger capacitors (1uF and 33uF).  Second, I discovered that the USB Micro connector I got was ball joint SMD.  I'm not convinced this is hardy enough for some of the **** you lot put your boards through.  I will probably end up switching to something which is partially through hole. 

Things are still trucking forward.  I'm getting things done while my real work in lab is running in the background.  These boards will be glorious.  I'm excited and you should be too.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 20 May 2016, 17:20:59
oh god that does look like insanity. how do the plate holes work for that? just a big slot? or is it one of those. one plate for this one plate for that sort of thing?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 20 May 2016, 17:23:45
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 20 May 2016, 17:24:28
oh god that does look like insanity. how do the plate holes work for that? just a big slot? or is it one of those. one plate for this one plate for that sort of thing?

Every alps switch layout needs its own plate

sounds special ... i like it :D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: need on Sat, 21 May 2016, 11:10:33
Great work BN, I'm really excited that you've found a solution for us weirdos in the EU.
Finally I can get some real use out of the gorgeous kepcaps on my ISO AEKIIs...!

Some questions:
[attach=1]
Are both of those sets of pins for the AEKII ISO (Shift key area)? It looks like it when I compare it to the plates comparison figure.

Also, those overlapping plated through holes are essentially bigger holes ?

Thank you so much for taking a step further based on our requests, and I apologize for the pain you've been through. :(
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sat, 21 May 2016, 15:17:36
oh god that does look like insanity. how do the plate holes work for that? just a big slot? or is it one of those. one plate for this one plate for that sort of thing?

Users will pick which layout they will be using and purchase the correct plate layout.  A single plate with full compatibility like the PCB doesn't work due to how the alps grips the plate to function.

Great work BN, I'm really excited that you've found a solution for us weirdos in the EU.
Finally I can get some real use out of the gorgeous kepcaps on my ISO AEKIIs...!

Some questions:
(Attachment Link)
Are both of those sets of pins for the AEKII ISO (Shift key area)? It looks like it when I compare it to the plates comparison figure.

Also, those overlapping plated through holes are essentially bigger holes ?

Thank you so much for taking a step further based on our requests, and I apologize for the pain you've been through. :(

Happy to satisfy your request, monsieur.

For the yellow circle question: Yes, both of those are for the AEKII ISO.  I suspect there are different variants people use.  This layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@_backcolor=%23555&name=Alps%20Party%2060%20-%20AEKII%20ISO&switchMount=alps&plate:true%3B&@_c=%23afb0b1&a:7%3B&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&_w:2%3B&=%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&_x:0.25&w:1.25&h:2&w2:1.5&h2:1&x2:-0.25%3B&=%3B&@_w:1.75%3B&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=%3B&@_w:1.25%3B&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&_w:2.75%3B&=%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=&_w:1.25%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=&_w:6.5%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=&_w:1.25%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=) from an unknown author reports that the LSHIFT has a 1.25u width, whereas this layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/55149cb1a1cd8a0c749c) from Yoe uses 1.5u for both LSHIFT and LCTRL.  I'm not sure what people will end up using, but this will be compatible.  The sw_94 in that picture will make programming a bit more confusing, but it was much more complicated to insert that elsewhere.  I think you Frenchies will figure it out.

For the white circle question: Yes, these will be larger slots.  I need to email the AdvancedPCB people to figure out what notation they prefer for this, since I have never done the overlapping slots before.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: vivalarevolución on Sat, 21 May 2016, 15:22:41

2) I have filled out the paperwork to have an LLC created.  I now have my own company.  Why is this important?  There have been instances where GB leaders have disappeared with people's money.  They have even done it after they have had successful previous buys to build confidence.  The LLC will give a measure of accountability to this by making sure that my info for the hole you throw your money into is available to the feds.  That way, if I ever disappear without word while holding your money, you can associate it with the headline "Man Found Impaled by Soldering Iron after Falling Down Stairs: Cat survived by consuming victim's face, water bottle unharmed."

3) Oh god, the sleeping pills are kicking in.

Or are you just stepping up the elaborateness for a next level scam?

No worries, i already have stalked your residence and other places you frequent, so I have geekhack covered in this respect.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: deductivemonkee on Sat, 21 May 2016, 16:20:49
I would buy a Dom, colour me interested.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 24 May 2016, 17:01:56
Updates:

I finished soldering everything required onto the Dom prototype.  Yay!  I tested it by plugging in the USB micro cable from my computer, and the connector was a little stiff.  I held my finger on the receptacle and gave it some firm pressure, and the thing ripped the pads and some of the GND plane off of the prototype board.  So that is trash now.  I chucked the receptacle with bits of PCB still dangling from it in a moment of frustration, and I think it went somewhere behind my computer.  I can't find it now.  I will send my cat hunting for it.

Needless to say, these projects will now not be using that connector.  If you want an example of the receptacle I used, you can look up the USB Micro B on Sparkfun.  I used the same model.  Steer clear of it.  With a little research on what is available, I think I'm going to revert my design to the semi-depreciated USB Mini B.  The parts I have looked at have much sturdier through-hole pins.  Hopefully this issue won't happen again.

The Rosa layout is complete.  There is currently support for Dell and AEKII ANSI and ISO models, and I have added support for a hacker-esque bottom row, and an infinity split right shift.

And now that it is complete, I think I'm going to scrap the whole thing.  I'm not happy with it.  There are some more features I want to add, but it just isn't happening with the current mega32u2.  As such, I'm going to start over again, forking this project into one which utilizes the mega32u4.  This will have multiple advantages for my design.  I want to add a split spacebar option and full numpad support (similar to the Phantom PCB).  I'm thinking Teensy support would be nice too. 

So anyways, I'm going to go redo the matrix.  I'll be back later hopefully with something even more awesome.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: stoic-lemon on Tue, 24 May 2016, 17:53:47
This man needs bro hugs!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Tue, 24 May 2016, 19:47:42
Updates:

Needless to say, these projects will now not be using that connector.  If you want an example of the receptacle I used, you can look up the USB Micro B on Sparkfun.  I used the same model.  Steer clear of it.  With a little research on what is available, I think I'm going to revert my design to the semi-depreciated USB Mini B.  The parts I have looked at have much sturdier through-hole pins.  Hopefully this issue won't happen again.

BlueNalgene I am going to recommend something ... but it is going to involve epic butthurt - especially since this is a custom job.

In fact I need to point this out in a photo:

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/61053365.jpg)

I've not yet seen a custom keyboard do this but what about a hardwired (non-detachable) option?

oh boy oh boy oh boy!  Can you hear the butthurt?  I sure can!

(http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11119/111197099/4384611-meme-tears-rainingtears.jpg)

But seriously... making a hardwired version just means it should theoretically last much longer than detachable.

I know legions will chime "but I need to use this 'My Little Pony' cable!"  Whatevr.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 24 May 2016, 19:54:42
I understand the reasoning for hardwired but people usually prefer detachable for a reason - it is much easier to carry around and transport. I hate hardwired boards because I have to worry about damaging the cable while transporting it.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: need on Tue, 24 May 2016, 19:57:14
After adapting to a split spacebar keyboard, there's no turn around...
It's so good! Thanks for adding this option, it's definitely a huge thing to add.

Cable routed underneath the case is my favorite, it's the best of both worlds.
It's safe and secure, while being detachable.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Tue, 24 May 2016, 19:57:59
I understand the reasoning for hardwired but people usually prefer detachable for a reason - it is much easier to carry around and transport. I hate hardwired boards because I have to worry about damaging the cable while transporting it.

In the five or so years I've been on GeekHack I've heard of maybe 1 or 2 people damaging their hardwired cable; meanwhile there is usually several people per week either here, DT, Rededit, MD, etc that have damaged detachable hubs.

Swapping in a new cable is infinitely less pain in the ass than soldering on a new hub.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 24 May 2016, 23:48:59
I understand the reasoning for hardwired but people usually prefer detachable for a reason - it is much easier to carry around and transport. I hate hardwired boards because I have to worry about damaging the cable while transporting it.

In the five or so years I've been on GeekHack I've heard of maybe 1 or 2 people damaging their hardwired cable; meanwhile there is usually several people per week either here, DT, Rededit, MD, etc that have damaged detachable hubs.

Swapping in a new cable is infinitely less pain in the ass than soldering on a new hub.

I actually tried doing a hardwired mod on my Model M.  Making that change to the design would actually cause a lot less headache and butthurt on my part.  But there are some disadvantages as well.  Hardwired is a lot more difficult for transport, as others have mentioned.  I'm not a fan of it because I think you can risk damaging the PCB with it.  The failure point of the little hub is actually a good thing in this case.  My trouble with the one I was using was more that it was ball mount instead of through-hole or even SMD.  Additionally, the use of a hardwired USB cable is the case problem.  In order for the wire to work well and look good, it should have a rubbery/glued gasket for the wire.  That would create compatibility issues with the folks who want to use sandwich style cases-forcing them to use something I design. 

Thanks for the suggestion though.  What I can do is make sure to label the through holes with D+, D-, Vcc, GND so that if someone wants to hardwire they can do a quick and easy mod on theirs.  The holes there are 0.90 mm if I remember correctly, so it would be pretty simple to thread a stripped USB wire in there and then use the GNDcase drill holes for the wire bulkheads (maybe a thin strip of stainless)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: db268 on Wed, 25 May 2016, 03:41:24
I'm up for a tenkey pad for sure!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Wed, 25 May 2016, 08:35:17
I actually tried doing a hardwired mod on my Model M.

While I've heard of detachable cable issues on the Model M before these are extremely rare.

If the detachable USB application were just as robust I would complain a lot less.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 25 May 2016, 09:18:17
I actually tried doing a hardwired mod on my Model M.

While I've heard of detachable cable issues on the Model M before these are extremely rare.

If the detachable USB application were just as robust I would complain a lot less.

I didn't have any breaking issues on the Model M.  I just did it for a bit, didn't like it, and switched back.

I thought about doing the milspec USB option for the keyboard, but each part for the board cost $11 vs. $1.50 for the regular through hole.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 25 May 2016, 14:59:20
Very much in for this. At least for a tenkey, which I've wanted for an age, but possibly for a TKL as well.

TBH I skipped to the end of the thread, but some sort of interlockability for the TKL and the TK would be great. Some sort of grooves or even magnets to hold them together, preferably on either side :)
Needn't be a firm hold, I don't need to lift them both just by holding the TK, but something that makes them fit together even if I bump into the table :)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: StormyMonday on Wed, 25 May 2016, 16:31:42
Updates:

... I want to add a split spacebar option and ...


My nipples explode with delight!   :p
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 26 May 2016, 22:01:57
Well kids, let's try this on for size:

(http://i.imgur.com/ivNVGyM.png)

Current compatibility list:

AEKII ISO
AEKII ANSI
Dell ISO
Dell ANSI
Infinity
HHKB
JIS
ABNT 2
probably some others which have not been requested
Split spacebar with 2u, 2.25u, 2.75u mix and match options.
Numpad/arrowpad replacement


To do:
Stepped caps lock
BAE layout
ZKB layout?



Current features:
SMT/through hole diode options
ATmega32u4 power
Teensy 2.0 support (to replace ATmega32u4 for a barebones PCB option)
SMK Alps

To Do features:
screw holes for all extant cases
LED support
bluetooth support?
on board diode reminder schematic




So now take a look at that thing, and see if your layout of choice matches up.  These things are still untested.  So please let me know if you see errors.

Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 26 May 2016, 22:28:29
Well kids, let's try this on for size:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ivNVGyM.png)


Current compatibility list:

AEKII ISO
AEKII ANSI
Dell ISO
Dell ANSI
Infinity
HHKB
JIS
ABNT 2
probably some others which have not been requested
Split spacebar with 2u, 2.25u, 2.75u mix and match options.
Numpad/arrowpad replacement


To do:
Stepped caps lock
BAE layout
ZKB layout?



Current features:
SMT/through hole diode options
ATmega32u4 power
Teensy 2.0 support (to replace ATmega32u4 for a barebones PCB option)
SMK Alps

To Do features:
screw holes for all extant cases
LED support
bluetooth support?
on board diode reminder schematic




So now take a look at that thing, and see if your layout of choice matches up.  These things are still untested.  So please let me know if you see errors.

Will it work for AT101  (bottom row 1.5, 1u, 1.5, 7u spacebar, 1.5, 1u, 1.5)?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 00:25:20
If you actually get this into production I will be buying several... At least one SMK kit and at least two Alps kits.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 27 May 2016, 05:47:23
Might be getting ahead of things here, but what case options other than possibly the Phantom are currently available?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 27 May 2016, 09:46:32
looking really sweet!  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 27 May 2016, 17:19:58
Will it work for AT101  (bottom row 1.5, 1u, 1.5, 7u spacebar, 1.5, 1u, 1.5)?

Yes

Might be getting ahead of things here, but what case options other than possibly the Phantom are currently available?

Designing a case is on my short list of things to do.  I'm not sure if it is economically viable.  However, I intend this to be used with several different cases.  Everything is untested of course, but things like the TeX, sandwich cases, and other 'standard' TKL cases will be compatible.



Welcome to the third dimension
(http://i.imgur.com/ZVaeLhz.png)

I'm putting features in now.  The BAE and stepped caps lock should be ready.

Diodes are so easy when you can reference a picture
(http://i.imgur.com/3zwUXdN.png)

Adding some of the crazier things to this project made things too ugly with just a 2 layer board.  So here is my creative workaround.

(http://i.imgur.com/tZuba7A.png)

The LED pins used by the Phantom build are there, but they aren't connected to anything.  If you want to brighten your experience, you can use these through hole slots to add your own lighting.  I tried making a loop of BG two color LED diodes around the outside, but when I calculated the power requirements, I was nearing 750mW!  Since this build is intended to be used with the Dom board which has a 100mW limit, it isn't practical to make LED's a default option.  Low power is sexier than lights, right?

As for my neat ideas about an optional bluetooth module which breaks the USB trace, it doesn't seem practical.  The space requirements were too prohibitive.  But I still have hopes for crazy things like wireless customs.  As such, I added a hackable area.

(http://i.imgur.com/FWkpGWl.png)

There should be sufficient pins here to do bluefruit mods.  See this (https://learn.adafruit.com/convert-your-model-m-keyboard-to-bluetooth-with-bluefruit-ez-key-hid/overview).  Rather than just make a slot for a bluefruit breakout board, I wanted to keep it free in here in case someone else comes up with something cool they want to try. 



With this board nearing completion, I started getting quotes for it.  I still need to chit chat with their engineers to ensure they understand my crazy slots, but here is the automatically generated custom quote for a board:

QtySame Day1-Day2-Day3-Day4-Day   1-week2-week3-week4-week
5Call Us$326.38$231.98$176.46$159.80$154.25$143.14$132.03$120.93
10Call Us$189.46$132.76$99.40$89.40$86.06   $79.39   $72.72$66.05
50Call Us$99.47$66.29$46.78$40.92   $38.97$35.07   $31.17$27.26
150Call Us$76.93$50.04$34.22$29.47   $27.89   $24.73   $21.57$18.40
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Jokrik on Fri, 27 May 2016, 17:37:07
This is great news, really can't wait to join this
Thx for the hard work and updates :)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: need on Fri, 27 May 2016, 19:49:52
We can't thank you enough for your hard work  :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Hope bluetooth will be worked out eventually, that just heightens the greatness of this project.
One question, is split space bar being incorporated? (Sorry I'm too dumb to read schematic)

Is something like this possible?
(http://i.imgur.com/LowSK4p.jpg?1)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 27 May 2016, 21:26:22
We can't thank you enough for your hard work  :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Hope bluetooth will be worked out eventually, that just heightens the greatness of this project.
One question, is split space bar being incorporated? (Sorry I'm too dumb to read schematic)

Is something like this possible?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LowSK4p.jpg?1)


That looks compatible from here.  What size are those spacebars?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 22:43:36
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: nateth on Fri, 27 May 2016, 23:35:47
I'm definitely game for the numpad. Great job
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Sun, 29 May 2016, 09:02:59
I still think this should be called Alps Party 2: Even Alpier
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 02 June 2016, 04:18:26
Is this project good if I just want a very basic no frills TKL ALPS board? With little programming and tinkering? I'm talking just soldering in the switches and calling it a day.

All I need is a TKL orange alps board and I won't buy a keyboard ever again :P
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Thu, 02 June 2016, 04:23:32
Is this project good if I just want a very basic no frills TKL ALPS board? With little programming and tinkering? I'm talking just soldering in the switches and calling it a day.

All I need is a TKL orange alps board and I won't buy a keyboard ever again :P
This has a lot of frills, but I think they're all optional :P
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 02 June 2016, 15:10:10
Checklist Time

This is the current list of possible layouts.  Is what you want on that list?  Make sure it is.  If not, let me know before I move forward.  I want to check that everything is perfect on the PCB so I can order a prototype to test.  If possible, I want to avoid changes after the prototype is confirmed.

(http://i.imgur.com/nl62HtD.png)

Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: romevi on Thu, 02 June 2016, 15:30:03
Checklist Time

This is the current list of possible layouts.  Is what you want on that list?  Make sure it is.  If not, let me know before I move forward.  I want to check that everything is perfect on the PCB so I can order a prototype to test.  If possible, I want to avoid changes after the prototype is confirmed.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/nl62HtD.png)


This is why I haven't gotten my Alps boards built yet: I can't decide which layouts to get!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: merlin64 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 15:34:04
Where would the Silicon Graphics SGI Granite keyboard fall under?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: jbondeson on Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:16:05
I know it's a little niche but for people like me who can patch together caps from an AEK and M0116 an AEKII layout with the HHKB upper-right (1u `~, 1u |\, 1.5u Bksp) would be super. Combine it with a short-right shift and it would be my dream layout   :)

Edit: I understand on a TKL we can have the `~ on the number stripe, but I rather like ESC there and then I can map something fun up at the ESC position on the F-stripe.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 02 June 2016, 18:48:07
Where would the Silicon Graphics SGI Granite keyboard fall under?

Same thing I'm wanting but with 1u keys inbetween the 1.5 ALTs and CTRLs.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: njbair on Thu, 02 June 2016, 20:43:43
Funds permitting, I'll either be in for an ANSI or Infinity layout.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: klennkellon on Thu, 02 June 2016, 23:59:09
ANSI
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: deductivemonkee on Fri, 03 June 2016, 00:39:31
Paging ziptyze for a 3d printed case to match my alps 64.
Hands down getting a Dom.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 03 June 2016, 02:51:21
ANSI Orthopad looks like the one for me.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: hammelgammler on Fri, 03 June 2016, 09:03:00
Where would the Silicon Graphics SGI Granite keyboard fall under?

Same thing I'm wanting but with 1u keys inbetween the 1.5 ALTs and CTRLs.

That's exactly what I want too.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 03 June 2016, 12:37:21
Some of those layouts I've never even heard of...? ANSI BAE?

Are you really going to do plates for all of those?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Fri, 03 June 2016, 12:39:52
Some of those layouts I've never even heard of...? ANSI BAE?

Are you really going to do plates for all of those?
BAE = Big Ass Enter
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 03 June 2016, 13:06:22
Some of those layouts I've never even heard of...? ANSI BAE?

Are you really going to do plates for all of those?
BAE = Big Ass Enter
my bae loves that big ass enter  :p
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 03 June 2016, 14:44:59
I know it's a little niche but for people like me who can patch together caps from an AEK and M0116 an AEKII layout with the HHKB upper-right (1u `~, 1u |\, 1.5u Bksp) would be super. Combine it with a short-right shift and it would be my dream layout   :)

Edit: I understand on a TKL we can have the `~ on the number stripe, but I rather like ESC there and then I can map something fun up at the ESC position on the F-stripe.

If I understand you correctly, you want the Infinity-esque layout with a different bottom row to accommodate AEK caps?  A pic would help.

Where would the Silicon Graphics SGI Granite keyboard fall under?

Same thing I'm wanting but with 1u keys inbetween the 1.5 ALTs and CTRLs.

That's exactly what I want too.

Everybody likes stepped caps locks, right?

(http://i.imgur.com/DGqBroV.png)

Are you really going to do plates for all of those?

I hope to have whatever someone wants to build available.  Last time I made my quote with the super nice grill company I worked with by telling them they were going to be cutting a bunch of different things that were all the same size.  I told them to price based on the most complicated one to build, and we went from there.  Alps suffers from not having as many cut and dried sets available.  Being able to cater to the myriad of things users want to build is essential.  That is part of why I put so much time into the extras on the PCB.  I want all these different projects to be compatible on a single board.  When Alps wranglers like me start simplifying this, the layouts and such will eventually become more codified like the Cherry ones.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: merlin64 on Fri, 03 June 2016, 14:49:32
Thank you so much for your efforts. If only we could get someone to run another Alps keycap set.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: emdude on Fri, 03 June 2016, 15:50:15
And a PBT set at that!  But perhaps that is asking too much..

When Alps wranglers like me start simplifying this, the layouts and such will eventually become more codified like the Cherry ones.

Unfortunately, I don't think this can happen until the AEK layout can be retired.  Without a good 103/104 key set, the weird layout will remain the standard.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: hammelgammler on Sun, 05 June 2016, 11:14:51
I like a stepped capslock more then a non-stepped! You could use a full SGI dyesub set with the layout above, that would be awesome.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Sun, 05 June 2016, 12:35:58
I'm game for a at101w layout
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: jbondeson on Mon, 06 June 2016, 09:54:32
If I understand you correctly, you want the Infinity-esque layout with a different bottom row to accommodate AEK caps?  A pic would help.

That and the rotated F-row. So this:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 06 June 2016, 15:05:15
I just had an email conversation with Steve at Matias.  We have confirmation that the prices will be as glorious as last time (provided we meet quantity requirements).  I'm going to make the assumption that we can do another 9600 switches easily.  If we do, the price will be $0.14 each.  I might charge $0.15 each to cover the shipping costs of the switches from Matias to me (something I didn't plan for last time).

The MOQ for the stabilizers is 10.  Honestly, I might meet that MOQ myself.  Those sets will be $5 each.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Delirious on Mon, 06 June 2016, 16:48:55
Have we decided on case compatibility for TKL yet? I'm still very much confused about the F row spacing between Phantom/Costar and Gon/LZ so I can't tell from just looking at the layout. Thanks.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Mon, 06 June 2016, 17:38:29
And 5x4 for the TK I assume?

This is looking sweeter and sweeter...
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: cerement on Mon, 06 June 2016, 22:01:31
[deleted]
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 07 June 2016, 16:42:41
… F row spacing between Phantom/Costar and Gon/LZ so I can't tell from just looking at the layout …

Filco/Costar/Phantom/QFR/TEX TKL/KUL/WASD/Nixeus/Ducky:
  • 0.5u space between Fn row and number row
  • indicator LEDs under keys or between Print/Scroll/Pause and nav cluster
  • USB socket underneath keyboard, between F8 and F9, or in middle (kind of under F7)
  • case usually has internal shelf since the stock plates have small downward lips

“Korean Customs”/Duck/LZ/TGR/GON?:
  • 0.25u space between Fn row and number row
  • indicator LEDs under keys or between nav cluster and arrow keys
  • USB between F12 and Print or in the middle (kind of under F7)
  • plates have 5 extensions each on top and bottom with screw holes that fit into recesses in the case (gets sandwiched between top and bottom of case)

Thanks for this info.  It really codified what I needed to figure out since I don't actually own any of those cases.

The case compatibility will be {Filco/Costar/Phantom/QFR/TEX TKL/KUL/WASD/Nixeus/Ducky} type.  The USB needs to be moved to fit this center convention.  The case compatibility decision was originally based on the sandwhich style cases which Moz standardized many moons ago.  I believe this is best, because I want the users to have as many DIY options open to them, even if most end up choosing a premade case.

Seriously Cerement, I'm not sure where you got that compatibility list, but I love you for posting it.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: cerement on Tue, 07 June 2016, 21:05:31
[deleted]
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: merlin64 on Tue, 07 June 2016, 23:35:49
I can confirm that KUL does the same thing. Recently a member had some issues with their usb port, and they were able to just swap out the small pcb without desoldering anything.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 10 June 2016, 15:30:51
Par for the course, I have some more changes to make.  At this time, I'm working on Dom.

(http://i.imgur.com/tj1O6m8.png)

This is a breakout board I'd like to offer with the Dom kit.  It is a calculator display addon.  All parts are through-hole like a good soldering kit, so there shouldn't be any issues assembling it for those who want one.  It mounts onto the board with headers over the USB connections (I'll show those changes soon).  This is a Charlieplexed LED display, so it will be a "fun" programming challenge for those of you nerds out there who get off on that sort of stuff.  The atmega will drive the LED's at a low duty cycle. 

(http://i.imgur.com/TwZZV6C.png)

This is the schematic.  Nothing too outrageous. 

I'm not sure if this breakout will work, but I'm going to print one out and see how it goes.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Fri, 10 June 2016, 18:53:42
I vote to rename this project Rabbit Hole...

Because deeper and deeper we go! I love it! I'm definitely no coder, but i would totally get that addon...and then proceed to mooch off of someone else's code lol
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Zealousy on Tue, 14 June 2016, 16:27:34
The Rosa Tenkey looks lovely. I'd have to say firm pass on the Dom TKL, but I'm loving all the hard work you're putting into it!

I know ALPS people like the Mac style numpad, but I'd really prefer to stick with the long 0, big enter, big plus, numlock design standard.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 21 June 2016, 13:31:34
Hey folks.  I've been super busy the past week or two.  I'm just now getting around to updating.

I upgraded KiCAD and updated the Dom design.  I ordered the prototypes last night for the Dom and for the DomCalc breakout board.  I have nothing exciting to show you right now, but I wanted everyone to know that I'm still alive and working on this.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 22 June 2016, 17:17:01
Posting things

(http://i.imgur.com/b0nm51F.png)

This is the latest board.  The prototype is being made currently.

(http://i.imgur.com/0YHEq4j.png)

Here is the updated case, rendered in bead blasted Al.

I have a version on Shapeways, and the cheap white SLS costs >$70 to 3D print with no errors.  Not bad.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 22 June 2016, 20:01:47
oh my. things are getting better and better in this tread. :D

Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: romevi on Wed, 22 June 2016, 22:51:10
Posting things

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/b0nm51F.png)


This is the latest board.  The prototype is being made currently.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/0YHEq4j.png)


Here is the updated case, rendered in bead blasted Al.

I have a version on Shapeways, and the cheap white SLS costs >$70 to 3D print with no errors.  Not bad.

I'm in love with that case.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 22 June 2016, 23:54:00
Posting things

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/b0nm51F.png)


This is the latest board.  The prototype is being made currently.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/0YHEq4j.png)


Here is the updated case, rendered in bead blasted Al.

I have a version on Shapeways, and the cheap white SLS costs >$70 to 3D print with no errors.  Not bad.

I'm in love with that case.


shhhhh i saw it first  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 23 June 2016, 10:41:30
Relax, I'm sure she has a sister!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 23 June 2016, 14:44:21
Rosa Update

(http://i.imgur.com/uPYrUuZ.png)

I moved the USB to the center of the board.  It should be more compatible this way.  I can't guarantee that though, since I don't have the means to test it.  To facilitate this move, I am going to use a small breakout board mounted on pin headers for the USB.  This will attach directly beneath the F7.  I don't like the idea of putting a communication port on headers, but it seems that this is an accepted method in the Filco/KUL/etc. cases. 

Also, I figured out that I can fillet GND planes!  So sexy.  This will be on the TK board as well, but not until after I'm done prototyping.  It is less expensive to get right angle board corners for little one-offs.

(http://i.imgur.com/arOrKxz.png)

It took a while to do this, because I had to rewire the board from scratch to facilitate the move.  Now I'm going to make the design for the case.  Thankfully, my experiments are slow this week (2 minutes of work, then 24 hours of waiting) so I have plenty of time to get this stuff rolling again.

Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Thu, 23 June 2016, 14:48:20
What do you mean by fillet GND planes?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 23 June 2016, 15:48:41
What do you mean by fillet GND planes?

I put Cu back planes in all of my boards connected to the common GND.  In KiCAD, you put this in with a "Filled Zone" you designate with a polygon.  It would be a pain in the ass to make your polygon have rounded corners if you want to have rounded corners of the PCB (like I have in the latest Rosa).  I looked around the Filled Zone options and noticed that there was a fillet option.  So I set it to match the fillet radius of the PCB.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Thu, 23 June 2016, 15:51:09
What do you mean by fillet GND planes?

I put Cu back planes in all of my boards connected to the common GND.  In KiCAD, you put this in with a "Filled Zone" you designate with a polygon.  It would be a pain in the ass to make your polygon have rounded corners if you want to have rounded corners of the PCB (like I have in the latest Rosa).  I looked around the Filled Zone options and noticed that there was a fillet option.  So I set it to match the fillet radius of the PCB.
Can you show the PCB with and without this option? I have rounded edges on my PCBs with planes and never used the fillet option.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:07:45
What do you mean by fillet GND planes?

I put Cu back planes in all of my boards connected to the common GND.  In KiCAD, you put this in with a "Filled Zone" you designate with a polygon.  It would be a pain in the ass to make your polygon have rounded corners if you want to have rounded corners of the PCB (like I have in the latest Rosa).  I looked around the Filled Zone options and noticed that there was a fillet option.  So I set it to match the fillet radius of the PCB.
Can you show the PCB with and without this option? I have rounded edges on my PCBs with planes and never used the fillet option.

Gladly.  I did some experimenting with it too.  It seems that the GND plane fillet only really matters if the edge.cuts does not match the fillet.

(http://i.imgur.com/aLehdzx.png)

The edge.cuts fillet is 5mm done with the arc drawing tool.  The filled zone fillet is done in 5mm to match.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:13:57
I'm still confused.

(http://i.imgur.com/OyqYnSq.png)

I have no filleting.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:17:31
A big shout out to the eagle-eye'd Unoab for spotting a mistake with the breakout board.

(http://i.imgur.com/tbw88hH.png)

Can you spot the difference?  Would you have noticed a mistake with the first one if I didn't say anything?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:20:59
I'm still confused.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/OyqYnSq.png)


I have no filleting.

No, that looks how it supposed to.  There would only be a noticeable difference if you didn't have the rounded edge.cut.  The zone 'edge' still sticks out beyond the rounded edge.cut, but that is normal.  The copper is only filled inside the board.

Side-note: Do you have a plane on the front and the back?  Do you have capacitance issues with that?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Thu, 23 June 2016, 16:25:04
IDidn't notice that before, but I did know.

(Also, see my previous post, I'm not really sure what filleting changes still!)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 23 June 2016, 19:13:32
Rosa Case

(http://i.imgur.com/fFxfmi0.png)

Custom 11° risers

(http://i.imgur.com/aixg5yz.png)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Fri, 24 June 2016, 16:54:10
Wow, those risers are killer.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: McPwned on Sat, 25 June 2016, 09:51:57
Wow, those risers are killer.
No kidding, I think they look fantastic.

Do they go on the numpad as well?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Sat, 25 June 2016, 09:54:18
I'm still confused.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/OyqYnSq.png)


I have no filleting.

No, that looks how it supposed to.  There would only be a noticeable difference if you didn't have the rounded edge.cut.  The zone 'edge' still sticks out beyond the rounded edge.cut, but that is normal.  The copper is only filled inside the board.

Side-note: Do you have a plane on the front and the back?  Do you have capacitance issues with that?
Yep, GND plane on both front and back. No issues that I know of.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Moistgun on Sat, 25 June 2016, 10:06:21
Rosa Case

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/fFxfmi0.png)


Custom 11° risers

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/aixg5yz.png)


That is so freaking cool, and mad simple.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Sat, 25 June 2016, 10:28:49
Those Risers man, great looking project you have going
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tmrmn on Sat, 25 June 2016, 14:32:52
Love the hacker space idea. It's insane how many cool things and layouts you are able to cramp on one PCB.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Wingpad on Mon, 27 June 2016, 11:32:18
Wow, I didn't know this was happening until Blaise170 pointed it out to me. Really cool stuff happening here so I'm looking forward to seeing your progress, BlueNalgene! Also, I'd be game for an Infinity-esque Rosa/TKL :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 01 July 2016, 12:44:44
I finally got the prototype boards in the mail.

(http://i.imgur.com/rKMsZuR.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/scQ6KtR.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/7sYQiJo.jpg)

I'll be assembling them this weekend and then getting the programming going soon after that.  There are some issues with these boards, notably that they have not drilled any slots, only a single hole from each slot.  I think (hope) that is just an issue with OSH Park, but I have sent some emails to the engineers at Advanced PCB to make sure I have the notation right for the final product.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Fri, 01 July 2016, 12:46:50
OSHpark doesn't do slotting :(

i need to find a drill hole footprint for alps/cherry too i think
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 04 July 2016, 05:21:19
OSHpark doesn't do slotting :(

i need to find a drill hole footprint for alps/cherry too i think

They do, but you need to have the slot represented as a series of overlapping holes.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 04 July 2016, 06:16:41
OSHpark doesn't do slotting :(

i need to find a drill hole footprint for alps/cherry too i think

They do, but you need to have the slot represented as a series of overlapping holes.
Right.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duhhey on Mon, 04 July 2016, 11:27:36
Rosa Case

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/fFxfmi0.png)


Custom 11° risers

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/aixg5yz.png)


Love the design
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 07 July 2016, 17:07:18
Good news, folks.  The latest Dom prototype has been built.  I built it over the past two very busy days and did electrical connection testing (and correcting my ****ups) today.  I am still seeing some connection between pads not wired together, but I think that the ganged overcurrent pins in the TI chip are causing that. 

(http://i.imgur.com/XivWdXM.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/d9mslEa.jpg)

The next step is to load a bootloader and program this puppy.  I have never put a bootloader on before, so that will be a small challenge.  Additionally, I forgot to put FTDI on this board, so it is going to be an uphill battle with a tangle of wires.  The first program will probably just be a barely modified hasu's code just to see if the damn thing works.  Then a second test with code for the calculator will have to be written.  I plan on shipping things before the code is finalized.  This is due to my poor programming skill.  If others are just getting theirs assembled when the firmware is being finalized, there will be more opportunities to test.

I'm a bit frustrated, because this project is taking longer than I would like.  I'm one of those people who is in danger of running out of steam on this kind of thing, so if I start slacking be sure to put me in my place.  I have yet another consulting gig coming up next week (which is actually pretty ****ing awesome) in addition to field work and my regular experiments, so this is going to drag on some more.  I also worry that the longer this takes, the less salient it becomes.  I know people will start to get distracted and bored if I take too long getting this out.  I'm working on it folks.  Please don't get discouraged, I don't intend to forget about you.

NINJA EDIT: the soldering looks like **** on the prototype board because it is a prototype that has been soldered and resoldered multiple times.  Real versions won't be nearly as ugly.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: sprit on Thu, 07 July 2016, 18:06:52
Great! I am in !   :thumb:
Thanks!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 07 July 2016, 18:27:26
Good news!  The 5V line is up and running, and the power is being correctly distributed to the hub devices.

Bad news.  The 3.3V line is NOT working.  The LDO lost some of it's magic smoke, so now I need to go grab a new one.  It glowed bright red though, so that was neat.  I tried to get a pic, but it cleared up by the time I got my camera.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 08 July 2016, 04:31:27
At this point the DOM is the more interesting part of this IC anyway, so keep up the work!

I still think the cases need to be able to "fit together" on both sides using magnets, though. I want the "click" sound when I get the DOM out of the drawer cause it's bill paying time.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joey on Fri, 08 July 2016, 05:06:05
Keep the dream alive, it's looking great!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Fri, 08 July 2016, 18:12:20
At this point the DOM is the more interesting part of this IC anyway, so keep up the work!

I still think the cases need to be able to "fit together" on both sides using magnets, though. I want the "click" sound when I get the DOM out of the drawer cause it's bill paying time.

I actually really like that idea. A nice "thunk" would be hilariously satisfying
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 08 July 2016, 18:35:07
Updates:

I finished soldering everything required onto the Dom prototype.  Yay!  I tested it by plugging in the USB micro cable from my computer, and the connector was a little stiff.  I held my finger on the receptacle and gave it some firm pressure, and the thing ripped the pads and some of the GND plane off of the prototype board.  So that is trash now.  I chucked the receptacle with bits of PCB still dangling from it in a moment of frustration, and I think it went somewhere behind my computer.  I can't find it now.  I will send my cat hunting for it.

Needless to say, these projects will now not be using that connector.  If you want an example of the receptacle I used, you can look up the USB Micro B on Sparkfun.  I used the same model.  Steer clear of it.  With a little research on what is available, I think I'm going to revert my design to the semi-depreciated USB Mini B.  The parts I have looked at have much sturdier through-hole pins.  Hopefully this issue won't happen again.

The Rosa layout is complete.  There is currently support for Dell and AEKII ANSI and ISO models, and I have added support for a hacker-esque bottom row, and an infinity split right shift.

And now that it is complete, I think I'm going to scrap the whole thing.  I'm not happy with it.  There are some more features I want to add, but it just isn't happening with the current mega32u2.  As such, I'm going to start over again, forking this project into one which utilizes the mega32u4.  This will have multiple advantages for my design.  I want to add a split spacebar option and full numpad support (similar to the Phantom PCB).  I'm thinking Teensy support would be nice too. 

So anyways, I'm going to go redo the matrix.  I'll be back later hopefully with something even more awesome.

Oh no! Say it ain't so, I really dislike Mini-B connectors. How difficult would it be to desolder a Mini-B connector and substitute a Micro-B? Is it possible to make connector choice optional or would it create too much headache?

In anycase, I am definitely in for one TKL (possibly 2 money permitting), I am undecided on layout, most likely will have to go with Dell ANSI layout for ease of keycap selection. And one firm order of the TK numpad (possibly 2 if you plan to offer manufactured case of some sort, otherwise it's time get to the local B&Q and get some off-cut of wood
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 08 July 2016, 18:45:35
Oh no! Say it ain't so, I really dislike Mini-B connectors. How difficult would it be to desolder a Mini-B connector and substitute a Micro-B? Is it possible to make connector choice optional or would it create too much headache?

I chose mini B because it is much sturdier.  My supplier had no versions of through-hole micro USB connectors which would have worked with this board.  I have had some major problems with smd mounted connectors as they tend to rip off of the PCB unless there is a secondary securing mechanism (like a custom molded plastic part to hold it down you would see on your phone or something). 

Sorry you aren't a fan, but it seems more reliable for those of us who transport our boards.  If you intend to replace the part, it is possible, but might require some creative wiring depending on the module you choose.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Sat, 09 July 2016, 05:42:59
What does through-hole mean in that context? That you can solder cables to points inside the metal connector?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 09 July 2016, 14:10:59
The pins go through the PCB and aren't just soldered to the top.

Will you be able to offer ordering individual plates? Say I buy one PCB, could I get three different plates with it?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sat, 09 July 2016, 16:22:47
What does through-hole mean in that context? That you can solder cables to points inside the metal connector?

Blaise is correct.  The leads and housing connections go through the PCB and are soldered on the back instead of pads connected on the front only.  This is beneficial, because if there is too much strain on the pad soldered version, it can rip the copper off of the board quite easily.  The through hole parts don't have that issue. 

The pins go through the PCB and aren't just soldered to the top.

Will you be able to offer ordering individual plates? Say I buy one PCB, could I get three different plates with it?

You can order as many different plates as you want.  The kits will be sold in the same fashion as the previous GB.  You pick what you want, and I box it up for you.  Just want to try some Matias switches?  You can order just that if you like.  Want to buy 80 complete kits with all of the plate options for each?  Go for it.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Sun, 10 July 2016, 05:33:28
What does through-hole mean in that context? That you can solder cables to points inside the metal connector?

Blaise is correct.  The leads and housing connections go through the PCB and are soldered on the back instead of pads connected on the front only.  This is beneficial, because if there is too much strain on the pad soldered version, it can rip the copper off of the board quite easily.  The through hole parts don't have that issue. 

The pins go through the PCB and aren't just soldered to the top.

Will you be able to offer ordering individual plates? Say I buy one PCB, could I get three different plates with it?

You can order as many different plates as you want.  The kits will be sold in the same fashion as the previous GB.  You pick what you want, and I box it up for you.  Just want to try some Matias switches?  You can order just that if you like.  Want to buy 80 complete kits with all of the plate options for each?  Go for it.

I think you are referring to these connectors with the pins that secure it to the PCB right? http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/629105150521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252byk2Wnkghg7F8rzYbeZ9K0ijhE7azhp8rv2w%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/629105150521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252byk2Wnkghg7F8rzYbeZ9K0ijhE7azhp8rv2w%3d%3d)

Say if I were to source some of these connectors, how difficult is it to replace a Mini-B connector by myself? (I've only done relatively simple soldering jobs with through-hole resistors and diodes, never attempted to do small SMD components). Would you say it's possible with a little bit of practice and steady hands or is it better not to try at all and live with the Mini B connector?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 11 July 2016, 11:11:30
More
What does through-hole mean in that context? That you can solder cables to points inside the metal connector?

Blaise is correct.  The leads and housing connections go through the PCB and are soldered on the back instead of pads connected on the front only.  This is beneficial, because if there is too much strain on the pad soldered version, it can rip the copper off of the board quite easily.  The through hole parts don't have that issue. 

The pins go through the PCB and aren't just soldered to the top.

Will you be able to offer ordering individual plates? Say I buy one PCB, could I get three different plates with it?

You can order as many different plates as you want.  The kits will be sold in the same fashion as the previous GB.  You pick what you want, and I box it up for you.  Just want to try some Matias switches?  You can order just that if you like.  Want to buy 80 complete kits with all of the plate options for each?  Go for it.
I think you are referring to these connectors with the pins that secure it to the PCB right? http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/629105150521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252byk2Wnkghg7F8rzYbeZ9K0ijhE7azhp8rv2w%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/629105150521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252byk2Wnkghg7F8rzYbeZ9K0ijhE7azhp8rv2w%3d%3d)

Say if I were to source some of these connectors, how difficult is it to replace a Mini-B connector by myself? (I've only done relatively simple soldering jobs with through-hole resistors and diodes, never attempted to do small SMD components). Would you say it's possible with a little bit of practice and steady hands or is it better not to try at all and live with the Mini B connector?

Looking at those components, it seems possible to replace it with that part.  The through hole pins on the micro do not match the support through hole pins on the mini.  This means you will need to chop two of them off so the other two fit.  I would recommend soldering small wires to the SMD pins on the micro part, then putting those through the correct holes on the PCB.  Since this will have very few contact points with the board, I recommend use of glue to hold the receptacle in place.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Mon, 11 July 2016, 16:53:14
More
What does through-hole mean in that context? That you can solder cables to points inside the metal connector?

Blaise is correct.  The leads and housing connections go through the PCB and are soldered on the back instead of pads connected on the front only.  This is beneficial, because if there is too much strain on the pad soldered version, it can rip the copper off of the board quite easily.  The through hole parts don't have that issue. 

The pins go through the PCB and aren't just soldered to the top.

Will you be able to offer ordering individual plates? Say I buy one PCB, could I get three different plates with it?

You can order as many different plates as you want.  The kits will be sold in the same fashion as the previous GB.  You pick what you want, and I box it up for you.  Just want to try some Matias switches?  You can order just that if you like.  Want to buy 80 complete kits with all of the plate options for each?  Go for it.
I think you are referring to these connectors with the pins that secure it to the PCB right? http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/629105150521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252byk2Wnkghg7F8rzYbeZ9K0ijhE7azhp8rv2w%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/629105150521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252byk2Wnkghg7F8rzYbeZ9K0ijhE7azhp8rv2w%3d%3d)

Say if I were to source some of these connectors, how difficult is it to replace a Mini-B connector by myself? (I've only done relatively simple soldering jobs with through-hole resistors and diodes, never attempted to do small SMD components). Would you say it's possible with a little bit of practice and steady hands or is it better not to try at all and live with the Mini B connector?

Looking at those components, it seems possible to replace it with that part.  The through hole pins on the micro do not match the support through hole pins on the mini.  This means you will need to chop two of them off so the other two fit.  I would recommend soldering small wires to the SMD pins on the micro part, then putting those through the correct holes on the PCB.  Since this will have very few contact points with the board, I recommend use of glue to hold the receptacle in place.

I think I know what you mean now, some two-part epoxy should do it, it's good enough for the monolithic rudder on an A320, gotta be good enough for an USB port, that's how it works, right?

Do you know if there are any micro-B ports that have similar hole patterns to the mini B port you will be using? Or if possible could you share the part number for the mini port you will be using so I can try and find something with similar pin sizing?

Thanks for being patient with me, I am an engineer but my specialisation is not in electronics (very handy with a sledgehammer though!)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Mon, 11 July 2016, 18:13:22
More
What does through-hole mean in that context? That you can solder cables to points inside the metal connector?

Blaise is correct.  The leads and housing connections go through the PCB and are soldered on the back instead of pads connected on the front only.  This is beneficial, because if there is too much strain on the pad soldered version, it can rip the copper off of the board quite easily.  The through hole parts don't have that issue. 

The pins go through the PCB and aren't just soldered to the top.

Will you be able to offer ordering individual plates? Say I buy one PCB, could I get three different plates with it?

You can order as many different plates as you want.  The kits will be sold in the same fashion as the previous GB.  You pick what you want, and I box it up for you.  Just want to try some Matias switches?  You can order just that if you like.  Want to buy 80 complete kits with all of the plate options for each?  Go for it.
I think you are referring to these connectors with the pins that secure it to the PCB right? http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/629105150521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252byk2Wnkghg7F8rzYbeZ9K0ijhE7azhp8rv2w%3d%3d (http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Wurth-Electronics/629105150521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMulM8LPOQ%252byk2Wnkghg7F8rzYbeZ9K0ijhE7azhp8rv2w%3d%3d)

Say if I were to source some of these connectors, how difficult is it to replace a Mini-B connector by myself? (I've only done relatively simple soldering jobs with through-hole resistors and diodes, never attempted to do small SMD components). Would you say it's possible with a little bit of practice and steady hands or is it better not to try at all and live with the Mini B connector?

Looking at those components, it seems possible to replace it with that part.  The through hole pins on the micro do not match the support through hole pins on the mini.  This means you will need to chop two of them off so the other two fit.  I would recommend soldering small wires to the SMD pins on the micro part, then putting those through the correct holes on the PCB.  Since this will have very few contact points with the board, I recommend use of glue to hold the receptacle in place.

I think I know what you mean now, some two-part epoxy should do it, it's good enough for the monolithic rudder on an A320, gotta be good enough for an USB port, that's how it works, right?

Do you know if there are any micro-B ports that have similar hole patterns to the mini B port you will be using? Or if possible could you share the part number for the mini port you will be using so I can try and find something with similar pin sizing?

Thanks for being patient with me, I am an engineer but my specialisation is not in electronics (very handy with a sledgehammer though!)

Sure.  The part I'm using is the Omron XM7D-0512.  I have not seen anything which uses compatible pinouts while I was shopping for a good (inexpensive) part.

No worries.  I'm a chemist, not an engineer.  I'm flying by the seat of my pants here.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Tue, 12 July 2016, 12:57:52

Sure.  The part I'm using is the Omron XM7D-0512.  I have not seen anything which uses compatible pinouts while I was shopping for a good (inexpensive) part.

No worries.  I'm a chemist, not an engineer.  I'm flying by the seat of my pants here.

Ok I just done perusing some datasheets, it seems like this is the only one I found one that might have a chance of even fitting: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1912469.pdf

The mechanical retention pins spacings looks to be about the right size (it's 0.15mm off the pin pitch of the Omron part, I'm not sure it that will cause mechanical issues with the slots on the PCB, I'm hoping not). The contact pins looks to be surface mount, and the connector itself is shorter than the Mini B part, so I'm guessing I can use simple wires to bridge each contact pin to its corresponding hole on the PCB, is that a correct assumption?

My only concern is that the pin pitch is tiny (apprently 0.6mm) so I'm not sure how well it's going to work with hand-soldering. Do you know how the two retention arms should be mechanically restrained to the PCB? Do you just stick them through the hole on the PCB and fill it with solder? I'm a bit unclear on that but I assume that's what's supposed to happen.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 12 July 2016, 22:23:34

Sure.  The part I'm using is the Omron XM7D-0512.  I have not seen anything which uses compatible pinouts while I was shopping for a good (inexpensive) part.

No worries.  I'm a chemist, not an engineer.  I'm flying by the seat of my pants here.

Ok I just done perusing some datasheets, it seems like this is the only one I found one that might have a chance of even fitting: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1912469.pdf

The mechanical retention pins spacings looks to be about the right size (it's 0.15mm off the pin pitch of the Omron part, I'm not sure it that will cause mechanical issues with the slots on the PCB, I'm hoping not). The contact pins looks to be surface mount, and the connector itself is shorter than the Mini B part, so I'm guessing I can use simple wires to bridge each contact pin to its corresponding hole on the PCB, is that a correct assumption?

My only concern is that the pin pitch is tiny (apprently 0.6mm) so I'm not sure how well it's going to work with hand-soldering. Do you know how the two retention arms should be mechanically restrained to the PCB? Do you just stick them through the hole on the PCB and fill it with solder? I'm a bit unclear on that but I assume that's what's supposed to happen.

Yep, just stick 'em and solder 'em. 

The pins might need some encouragement with the tweezers to fit the holes on the PCB, but it should work.  The pins on the Omron part are staggered instead of in a straight line, so this would be necessary to correct for that.  Buy more than one in case it takes some trial and error to get right.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Wed, 13 July 2016, 10:40:33
I've been reading through this IC for a few days and have been learning quite a bit! I'm really impressed by the PCB design and am interested to say the least!




Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 13 July 2016, 10:46:07
will it be compatible with Pokemon GO ?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: nateth on Wed, 13 July 2016, 10:47:09
Excellent question. :D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Sat, 16 July 2016, 12:08:52

Sure.  The part I'm using is the Omron XM7D-0512.  I have not seen anything which uses compatible pinouts while I was shopping for a good (inexpensive) part.

No worries.  I'm a chemist, not an engineer.  I'm flying by the seat of my pants here.

Ok I just done perusing some datasheets, it seems like this is the only one I found one that might have a chance of even fitting: http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1912469.pdf

The mechanical retention pins spacings looks to be about the right size (it's 0.15mm off the pin pitch of the Omron part, I'm not sure it that will cause mechanical issues with the slots on the PCB, I'm hoping not). The contact pins looks to be surface mount, and the connector itself is shorter than the Mini B part, so I'm guessing I can use simple wires to bridge each contact pin to its corresponding hole on the PCB, is that a correct assumption?

My only concern is that the pin pitch is tiny (apprently 0.6mm) so I'm not sure how well it's going to work with hand-soldering. Do you know how the two retention arms should be mechanically restrained to the PCB? Do you just stick them through the hole on the PCB and fill it with solder? I'm a bit unclear on that but I assume that's what's supposed to happen.

Yep, just stick 'em and solder 'em. 

The pins might need some encouragement with the tweezers to fit the holes on the PCB, but it should work.  The pins on the Omron part are staggered instead of in a straight line, so this would be necessary to correct for that.  Buy more than one in case it takes some trial and error to get right.

I see, trial and error is how I learn  :thumb:

I'll be in for a TKL set and a numpad, along with plates.

What are the options looking like in terms of cases? Are you able to find a machining shop who can do cases or do you plan to make generic CAD files available for people to sort their own cases? For the TKL board there's one or two options available I think (TEX case which is compatible with Costar OEM boards like the Cooler Master QFR, Filco or Phantom PCB, or the A87 layout of the Korean customs. What do you think?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 22 July 2016, 17:27:20
This hasn't been updated lately, so here is one.  There is nothing new to report.  I haven't been able to work on anything for this since my last post.  The TK is currently sitting to my left on the work desk waiting to be tested.  I need to run the osc over it to figure out where the data are getting clogged up.  The power all works fine, but the D+/- line is not communicating.  There are two small problems.

1. The oscilloscope is downstairs in my boss' office and locked tight.
2. I don't know how to use it.

I asked him to give me a tutorial on analyzing things with it, but he is very busy.  I also expect that he will hold this over my head until he gets more data out of me.  He's a bit of a douche like that.  Anyway, this project is stalled, but not dead.  I'll keep necro'ing it even if there is nothing to report so it stays on everyone's radar.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 22 July 2016, 18:28:20
Thanks for the update! Keep us in the loop  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: ctm on Thu, 28 July 2016, 22:39:00
Awesome project!!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: henz on Sat, 30 July 2016, 04:20:58
I heard someone say SMK compatibility?in the alps appreciation thread,  is it true?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 30 July 2016, 06:03:32
This is beyond awesome, I would definitely join the GB phase
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sat, 30 July 2016, 17:10:30
SMK compatibility is true.  Of course, I still need to find time to work on this.  The encouraging words are nice though.  It helps maintain what momentum I have.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: digi on Wed, 03 August 2016, 21:36:28
In for a TKL pcb when it goes live, thanks again Blue!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 03 August 2016, 22:22:14
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: henz on Thu, 04 August 2016, 01:44:56
SMK compatibility is true.  Of course, I still need to find time to work on this.  The encouraging words are nice though.  It helps maintain what momentum I have.

I very much would like to see a TKL pcb with SMK support.  :D  Keep it up!

I very very much would like to see a TKL pcb with SMK support! =)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Fri, 05 August 2016, 17:50:30
So I finally found some time today to mess with the TK and oscilloscope.  My findings so far: its broked.  Everything seems to be noise on the signal lines.  I am of the opinion that there may be something fundamentally wrong with my design.  I'm not done testing it yet, but I may have to make some changes.

My question to all of you:  would you still be interested in the TK without the USB hub feature?  I think that might be the real weak link here. 

EDIT: My advisor took a glance at the TI chip I'm using.  He suggested that since there is 3.3V power and a good oscillator signal, then there must be something wrong with it.  I showed him my "dmesg | grep usb" output, and he comment that the fact that there was no hub being listed when I plugged it in could support his theory.  So I haven't thrown in the towel yet. 
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: McPwned on Fri, 05 August 2016, 19:06:40
My question to all of you:  would you still be interested in the TK without the USB hub feature?
I don't particularly care about having a hub.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 05 August 2016, 19:13:31
So I finally found some time today to mess with the TK and oscilloscope.  My findings so far: its broked.  Everything seems to be noise on the signal lines.  I am of the opinion that there may be something fundamentally wrong with my design.  I'm not done testing it yet, but I may have to make some changes.

My question to all of you:  would you still be interested in the TK without the USB hub feature?  I think that might be the real weak link here. 

EDIT: My advisor took a glance at the TI chip I'm using.  He suggested that since there is 3.3V power and a good oscillator signal, then there must be something wrong with it.  I showed him my "dmesg | grep usb" output, and he comment that the fact that there was no hub being listed when I plugged it in could support his theory.  So I haven't thrown in the towel yet.

I'm not fussed about a hub either, if I can mash on the keys and make some numbers appear on the screen, I'll be a happy camper. Anything else is superfluous!  ;D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 06 August 2016, 05:25:02
Support for Alps and SMK is way more important than a hub.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: stimuz on Mon, 08 August 2016, 18:57:59
my body is ready
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: romevi on Tue, 09 August 2016, 23:08:54
Why are you so cool, BlueNalgene?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 10 August 2016, 19:32:13
Changes made to the DOM and new PCBs were ordered from OSH Park.  There are two less features and one extra feature.  It's a secret. ;D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Wed, 10 August 2016, 21:10:43
What is hype may never die
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 11 August 2016, 03:58:33
Damnit, Blue and his secrets... :)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: sony on Mon, 15 August 2016, 11:50:00
This is exactly what I need in my life. Can't wait for it to happen! I need a home for my blue alps
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: deductivemonkee on Tue, 23 August 2016, 22:41:55
Any news on this? I need a Numpad :)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Wed, 24 August 2016, 12:25:11
The latest prototype came in the mail yesterday from OSHpark.  I haven't finished it yet.  Not much news to report.  I am pretty busy at the moment, so we will see where things go from here.  Hopefully I will be able to look at it this week.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 24 August 2016, 12:31:00
I think we need to look at this as a "walk slowly" IC :D
GBs take time, and this isn't even a GB yet!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tjweir on Wed, 24 August 2016, 23:05:24
Hype for the SGI layout.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 25 August 2016, 14:16:55
I just got a job offer so three for me if this gets to GB. :P
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 25 August 2016, 14:52:06
Someone get me a job offer, and I'll get six ;)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 25 August 2016, 15:06:10
Someone get me a job offer, and I'll get six ;)

I need a foot massage, I'll pay you tree fiddy dollars  :cool:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 25 August 2016, 15:06:52
No no, a HUMAN job!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 25 August 2016, 21:55:56
Support for Alps and SMK is way more important than a hub.

Think the trick is keep it SIMPLE hence you reduce possible failures when you go all complex and start bundling in extras into any keyboard design.

Make sure the keyboard is bullet proof and ready to operate under any circumstance otherwise it would be another design that failed to deliver anything to it's customers.  Always choose a simple, basic keyboard design that keeps on working whether it's 0C or 58C.

Looking forward to this and I am NOT even an ALPs fanboy here.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 25 August 2016, 21:59:18
I think we need to look at this as a "walk slowly" IC :D
GBs take time, and this isn't even a GB yet!

It's a scratch built design, utilizing ALPs switches in a variety of different layouts.

Even for GON or LZ it would be a difficult task to achieve when everything in this world is based upon the (in)famous CherryMX technology.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: m3atworks on Mon, 12 September 2016, 21:34:59
I would be interested in a couple of tkl pcbs and plates to house my SGI granite boards.
thanks very much.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: waqar on Tue, 13 September 2016, 00:14:37
In for AEK layout.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: fublamchu on Tue, 13 September 2016, 07:50:05
Can't wait for this to come into fruition!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: the pokemon kid on Tue, 13 September 2016, 09:59:43
In the number pad portion of the log, you mention support for Monterey Alps. Will the TKL board also have this support?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: henz on Tue, 13 September 2016, 12:07:37
In the number pad portion of the log, you mention support for Monterey Alps. Will the TKL board also have this support?

Asked the same thing a while back.  And the answer is yes
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: the pokemon kid on Tue, 13 September 2016, 14:31:32
In the number pad portion of the log, you mention support for Monterey Alps. Will the TKL board also have this support?
Asked the same thing a while back.  And the answer is yes


How did I miss that! I read everything a few times to make sure! But brilliant! Got me some Monterey blues to clean up for this then!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: henz on Tue, 13 September 2016, 14:40:02
SMK compatibility is true.  Of course, I still need to find time to work on this.  The encouraging words are nice though.  It helps maintain what momentum I have.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Tue, 13 September 2016, 16:42:36
I like seeing activity here.  I'm glad I haven't lost you yet.  I'm still alive, just swamped.  The last two weeks I worked 78 and 63 hours, respectively.  (I only worked 5 hours on labor day, gotta take a break occasionally).  Anyway, the fact that this project seems to be on hiatus does NOT mean it is dead.  It is on the list.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Slippery_John on Tue, 13 September 2016, 18:29:41
I like seeing activity here.  I'm glad I haven't lost you yet.  I'm still alive, just swamped.  The last two weeks I worked 78 and 63 hours, respectively.  (I only worked 5 hours on labor day, gotta take a break occasionally).  Anyway, the fact that this project seems to be on hiatus does NOT mean it is dead.  It is on the list.

Yay! I await this project with bated breath
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: the pokemon kid on Wed, 14 September 2016, 14:08:34
I like seeing activity here.  I'm glad I haven't lost you yet.  I'm still alive, just swamped.  The last two weeks I worked 78 and 63 hours, respectively.  (I only worked 5 hours on labor day, gotta take a break occasionally).  Anyway, the fact that this project seems to be on hiatus does NOT mean it is dead.  It is on the list.

Glad you are still there!

What switches is everyone else putting on the board? Mainly blues? Or are some people putting lubed salmon's in?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: fublamchu on Wed, 14 September 2016, 14:12:27
I like seeing activity here.  I'm glad I haven't lost you yet.  I'm still alive, just swamped.  The last two weeks I worked 78 and 63 hours, respectively.  (I only worked 5 hours on labor day, gotta take a break occasionally).  Anyway, the fact that this project seems to be on hiatus does NOT mean it is dead.  It is on the list.

Glad you are still there!

What switches is everyone else putting on the board? Mainly blues? Or are some people putting lubed salmon's in?

This is probably far too early to say, but I'm looking for Orange ALPS or if I'm really lucky, Amber ALPS
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: the pokemon kid on Wed, 14 September 2016, 14:33:32
I like seeing activity here.  I'm glad I haven't lost you yet.  I'm still alive, just swamped.  The last two weeks I worked 78 and 63 hours, respectively.  (I only worked 5 hours on labor day, gotta take a break occasionally).  Anyway, the fact that this project seems to be on hiatus does NOT mean it is dead.  It is on the list.

Glad you are still there!

What switches is everyone else putting on the board? Mainly blues? Or are some people putting lubed salmon's in?

This is probably far too early to say, but I'm looking for Orange ALPS or if I'm really lucky, Amber ALPS

It's not too early! It's going to take me a long time to find the perfect donor keyboards!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: waqar on Wed, 14 September 2016, 17:19:24
I like seeing activity here.  I'm glad I haven't lost you yet.  I'm still alive, just swamped.  The last two weeks I worked 78 and 63 hours, respectively.  (I only worked 5 hours on labor day, gotta take a break occasionally).  Anyway, the fact that this project seems to be on hiatus does NOT mean it is dead.  It is on the list.

Glad you are still there!

What switches is everyone else putting on the board? Mainly blues? Or are some people putting lubed salmon's in?

I have an Apple Extended Keyboard with Orange, and Apple Standard Keyboard with Salmon. Probably Orange, have not decided yet.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 15 September 2016, 09:16:37
I only have dampened cream lying around, but if I knew that I had a 75% coming, I'd have to dive into the deeper alps world and find out what I REALLY like ;)
One sad thing from the alps party buy, it turns out I really don't like Matias. The work i had to go through to get my AEK2 caps off those clicky bastard-switches is something I never want to do again!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: deductivemonkee on Thu, 15 September 2016, 10:01:36
I only have dampened cream lying around, but if I knew that I had a 75% coming, I'd have to dive into the deeper alps world and find out what I REALLY like ;)
One sad thing from the alps party buy, it turns out I really don't like Matias. The work i had to go through to get my AEK2 caps off those clicky bastard-switches is something I never want to do again!

I was removing caps off of my clicky switches on my alps64 and ripped the switch and pad off. Had the ghetto wire it to the iso key next to left shift  :-X
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Sun, 09 October 2016, 09:31:35
Busy month at work, eh? :P

Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mushman on Wed, 12 October 2016, 10:40:02
Will your keyboard be compatible with this keyset? https://thevankeyboards.com/products/lightcycle-keycap-set
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Radlife on Wed, 12 October 2016, 11:17:11
Will your keyboard be compatible with this keyset? https://thevankeyboards.com/products/lightcycle-keycap-set

Yes, it would be compatible with just the base set of the lightcycle keyset (if you're an US ANSI user)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: mushman on Wed, 12 October 2016, 12:31:21
Well that's good news!  The LightCycle GB ends October 17th.  Estimated production concludes 8 to 10 weeks; so hopefully Blue Nalgene will take orders starting 2017?  That would be perfect.  :D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: arhetue on Thu, 13 October 2016, 17:55:57
Welp, looks like I finally found a board to try out matias clicks on... :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Sat, 15 October 2016, 15:08:32
Non-update

I decided to take a completely work free day.  This will be the first one I've taken in about a month.  My usual load has been 60 hours during the work week, and 10-20 hours on the weekend.  I just want everyone to be aware that I still exist, and that I haven't abandoned this project.  It just is on the backburner until **** calms down.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Norman_the_Owl on Mon, 17 October 2016, 17:02:09
Take your time man, you don't owe us anything.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Applet on Sun, 23 October 2016, 12:47:26
Definitely interested! So just to be sure: If I pick up a QFR, I can use that case for the TKL? I need to start collecting parts ^^
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Trente on Sun, 23 October 2016, 15:24:48
Definitely in!!! The PCB supporting layout is awesome, so does the current case design!
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Scarpia on Mon, 24 October 2016, 02:59:13
Definitely interested in a Rosa TKL (probably AEKII Ansi or Dell ANSI)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: ninjapoop42 on Sat, 19 November 2016, 19:48:10
Very interested. AEKII ANSI for sure, maybe more.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: sethbc on Wed, 23 November 2016, 15:13:23
interested as well, something alps 64 compat
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: neon_tom on Thu, 01 December 2016, 09:32:41
I'm very interested in Dell ANSI
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: ozan6661 on Thu, 01 December 2016, 09:54:49
really interest with hhkb esque layout and matias or alps switch :D
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Wed, 21 December 2016, 13:19:26
It looks like Lightcycle Alps live again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5jkm8e/3012017/
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: rabbitfire on Sun, 25 December 2016, 10:24:02
I'm interested in buying the Rosa TKL
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Radlife on Mon, 09 January 2017, 10:36:57
Hi, I was wondering if there were any updates on this
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: PriusProblems on Fri, 13 January 2017, 07:31:08
Is AEKII ISO a thing that may happen?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 13 January 2017, 07:33:59
Is AEKII ISO a thing that may happen?

I doubt it. To support aek iso, every single switch locations will need duplicated pads at 0.25u offset to the right. This is likely not worth it in terms of cost and complexity of the pcb. Blame Apple and their retarded treatment of keyboard layouts.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 07:41:11
Thinking completely out of my ass, but maybe you could do just the left column offset to the left, and perforate the PCB on each side to easily break off the one you don't need :)

I don't have an ISO AEK so it doesn't make a difference to me.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 13 January 2017, 07:44:49
Thinking completely out of my ass, but maybe you could do just the left column offset to the left, and perforate the PCB on each side to easily break off the one you don't need :)

I don't have an ISO AEK so it doesn't make a difference to me.

I don't understand what you mean, for an ISO AEK, each and every switch on the main alphas cluster is shifted to the right by 0.25u, meaning the traces will have to be quite complicated (an AEK switch and a normal switch position will overlap over 0.75u and the pin locations are likely affected too). Not worth the headache in my opinion
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 13 January 2017, 07:54:31
Well, instead of moving all the other switches to right, you could move the first column to the left, couldn't you? Nav keys would then also need to be moved to the left. A lot of switches for sure, but less than the whole alpha section and not staggered (I don't know if that makes a difference). You would then probably need some extra PCB on the left, and if you are fitting it into a tight case you would probably need to remove extra PCB on the right.

But to all ISO guys I would recommend getting left column keys from m0118. I thing those would work. Then it's just a matter of having the right switch position for the enter key.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: duynguyenle on Sun, 15 January 2017, 04:20:26
Well, instead of moving all the other switches to right, you could move the first column to the left, couldn't you? Nav keys would then also need to be moved to the left. A lot of switches for sure, but less than the whole alpha section and not staggered (I don't know if that makes a difference). You would then probably need some extra PCB on the left, and if you are fitting it into a tight case you would probably need to remove extra PCB on the right.

But to all ISO guys I would recommend getting left column keys from m0118. I thing those would work. Then it's just a matter of having the right switch position for the enter key.

I think that would work yes, but obviously the entire right hand row of the alphas column would have a bit of an awkward gap of 0.125u on both sides (I think) since the keys themselves are 0.25u short
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: dante on Wed, 18 January 2017, 15:16:40
BlueNalgene is this still in development?
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: BlueNalgene on Thu, 23 March 2017, 17:17:14
Very busy.  Hiatus
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: waldorf120 on Fri, 05 May 2017, 15:58:30
Very interested in an Alps TKL and numpad PCB.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: joelfong on Sat, 13 May 2017, 10:43:29
Interested in this! It'll be nice to have a complete Alps TKL set.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: MandrewDavis on Sat, 13 May 2017, 20:43:10
Don't know if this helps anyone but Leeku might have extra Alps TKL pcbs leftover.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 17 May 2017, 13:23:56
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Applet on Wed, 17 May 2017, 15:07:20
With a little luck, the timing might be good for when Matias releases new keycaps? (hopefully at least the blanks)
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 17 May 2017, 18:41:10
tried SMK , didn't like them.. not as upset that this hasn't been updated in a while anymore

The quality of click is good with SMKs but I don't like the weighting and the boards are present in aren't exactly inspiring. I would rather use Alps or aristotle stems.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: directheatedtriode on Mon, 26 June 2017, 12:41:44
Interested in Dell ANSI TKL backplate plus PCB. Might be interested in case as well.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: alienman82 on Mon, 26 June 2017, 16:36:30
removed.
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: sncbraxsc2 on Tue, 24 October 2017, 14:05:54
I know this is well on the backburner but I will be looking forward to when the party starts bumping again. Also wanted to express interest in high profile designs for the case
Title: Re: [IC] Alps Party Massif: TK + TKL
Post by: Earthchill on Sat, 23 December 2017, 15:15:17
If you decide to continue some day, I'm also interested