XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO

[fohat.digs]

I'd love to adapt it, according to what I've seen I could use Soarer's converter or xwhatsit's. Which one do you guys think is the best?  I ordered a Teensy recently to try and make this one, however I also found this converter on ebay [2], anyone bought something from him? is it safe? Nothing I'd ever make will look as neat so if it works I'd probably order it

What are the differences between [2] and [3]? I think the one I'll need is [2], anyone can confirm? there are pics on the album of my plug [1].

Also, is there any way to check if the keyboard internals are working before spending on the convertor?

[1] http://imgur.com/a/r55td
[2] http://www.ebay.com/itm/281476427201
[3] http://www.ebay.com/itm/271644933588

Orihalcon's gear is very clean and yes, it is far nicer than what you build yourself, although you will have more flexibility with a Teensy. You will have to have some appropriate hardware to use the XT with a modern computer.

You want the one you call [2] which is the "180 degree" DIN plug rather than [3] the "240 degree" version.

If you anticipate more experimenting, you could build something like my outboard converter box:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58941.msg1348717#msg1348717

[antdes457]

Anyone else noticed missing keystrokes with simultaneous keypresses when using Soarer's with a 122-key Model F?

Many 5+ key combinations such as 234we or pretty much any 5-key combinations on mixed rows and columns will only register 3-4 letters when pressed at the same time.

Another one, let's say you hold the shift key. Now press and hold 234we one by one while holding shift. If you release all the letters at the same time, the shift modifier will be lost. I don't know if this happens because of USB HID, the converter or the IBM controller. I'm trying to find out if other NKRO keyboards have the same problem with Soarer's converter or if xwhatsit's controller exhibits the same problems.

[Purpeltendire]

I appear to be having some problems with this, and I'm not sure if it's the keyboard or my converter. I decided to try one of the eBay converters, as I haven't really had time to make things lately.

The keyboard I'm using it with is a 122-key Computer Lab International with a five-pin AT.

When I first plugged it in (sadly didn't have HID Listen running) the keys seemed all off, and kept repeating (as if I held down the key). Not a big deal, I figured. Ran HID_Listen, recieved a keyboard ID of 0000, but keypresses would register as different keys and seemed to be reading in okay. No big deal, I figured. I'll just make a config with 'force set3' in it and send it over using scaswr.

After doing that, I've only been able to get this from HID_Listen:


The first line of error codes, which show up when I connect the board:

Code: [Select]

wF8 W085wF8 W085wF8 W085

The rest of the output is what happens when I press a key - any key. No matter what key is pressed, one line of this shows up:

Code: [Select]

R06 wFE
R06 wFE
R06 wFE
R06 wFE
R06 wFE
R06 wFE

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I tried sending Halvar.sc and dvorak.sc using scaswr as well, but they resulted in the same output.

Edit: Some more information as I try to figure out what's going on:

Rebooted my computer, and keyboard changed back to Code Set 1 - The keypresses you see here are the result of my typing 'test'


After typing that, the keyboard again acted like I was holding down a key. In this case it was k. No keypresses are registering, but if I go into any window with a field that accepts characters, it's automatically filled with 'kkkkkkkkkkkkkk' and I had to unplug the keyboard for it to stop. On plugging it back in, I get this:



And here's the output of scinfo:

[fohat.digs]

I would boot the computer with a conventional PS/2 keyboard connected.

Then connect the subject keyboard to the Teensy and plug in the USB from the Teensy "hot" and wait for the computer to see it.

If it did not work from that point, I would then try re-booting the computer with the Teensy connected.

The computer can only "see" 1 Teensy, in any case. I usually start "cold" with no USB keyboards and plug in the Teensy USB "hot" the first time.

[Purpeltendire]

I would boot the computer with a conventional PS/2 keyboard connected.

Then connect the subject keyboard to the Teensy and plug in the USB from the Teensy "hot" and wait for the computer to see it.

If it did not work from that point, I would then try re-booting the computer with the Teensy connected.

The computer can only "see" 1 Teensy, in any case. I usually start "cold" with no USB keyboards and plug in the Teensy USB "hot" the first time.

Thanks for your help - unfortunately, no changes doing that. I booted with nothing, booted with a USB keyboard, and booted with a USB keyboard via a PS/2 adapter. Still the same result. Forcing Set 3 causes all keypresses to output R06, and forcing something else causes incorrect output.

'test' is being interpreted as 'backquote k F5 F6 Escape.'

[antdes457]

I had a similar same problem with a Raspberry Pi and a F122. Maybe the keyboard takes more than 500mA from the USB port. Do you have a USB3.0 port or a powered hub to test?

Also, maybe the data + clock voltage are too low on the AT side? Is it a keyboard where it's worth having pull-up resistors?

Actually, these guys state that the keyboard will not work with a USB converter, but they're probably not talking about Soarer's since it's able to convert protocols:
http://www.twindata.com/CLI/clikeyboard.htm

[Purpeltendire]

I had a similar same problem with a Raspberry Pi and a F122. Maybe the keyboard takes more than 500mA from the USB port. Do you have a USB3.0 port or a powered hub to test?

Also, maybe the data + clock voltage are too low on the AT side? Is it a keyboard where it's worth having pull-up resistors?

Actually, these guys state that the keyboard will not work with a USB converter, but they're probably not talking about Soarer's since it's able to convert protocols:
http://www.twindata.com/CLI/clikeyboard.htm

I was actually using USB3.0 ports on the front of my case. I tried plugging it in directly to the motherboard but it didn't fix anything, sadly. Same results.

I'd be willing to try the pull-up resistor if I had time and this was my own Teensy, but as this is one from orihalcon's eBay I can't. I'm considering returning it and building my own instead, but I can't really think of a reason why that would work while his does not.

[fohat.digs]

but as this is one from orihalcon's eBay I can't. I'm considering returning it and building my own instead,

If you send it back, ask him to test it.

I would guess that at least 10% of my computer problems come from faulty wiring or connections.

[antdes457]

The pull-up resistor is also possible directly on the IBM controller though.

[mougrim]

There are something strange with my Model F or convertor. From time to time it just begins to repeat last pressed key. It never happens when I typing on it, but if I leave my PC powered on and returns to it after half an hour or so, I can find ten or so new pages in my editor filled with last entered letter. When I press some other key, it stops doing so. Any idea? Maybe I should re-flash my Soarer's converter?

[antdes457]

Can you try a USB 2 vs USB 3 port or a USB hub?

[Skechup]

This seems like something I would do.

Good Job!!! 

[Skechup]

This seems like something I would do.

Good Job!!! 

[pandroid]

Hi folks,

After reading through the thread and going through the documentation of stellar work done by Soarer I've decided to bite the bullet and convert a terminal type keyboard (p/n 1394193) to USB using a Pro Micro. Got the Pro Micro side done, I can see it reporting as:

Code: [Select]

$ sudo ./scinfo
scinfo: looking for Soarer's Converter: found
scinfo: sending info request: ok
device: ok

Protocol Version: v1.00
Code Version: v1.12
Max Settings Version: v1.01
Current Settings Version: v0.00
SRAM Size: 2560 bytes
SRAM Free: 1809 bytes
EEPROM Size: 1024 bytes
EEPROM Free: 1020 bytes

I am not quite sure about the physical connection, though. Here's what I am thinking:



Does this look about right? I'd appreciate another set of eyes going through my connections before I go ahead and fry my keyboard off

Thanks!

[Halvar]

Looks right to me. 

[fohat.digs]

When is Soarer's/Teensy recognized by the BIOS, and is there any way to change it?

While booting up, I cannot use "Delete" to get into BIOS because the keyboard is not recognized yet. Having a 2nd (conventional) keyboard plugged in solves the problem, but that is a kludge.

"Soarer's Converter" appears as a device in the hardware list, but is it actually a "keyboard" in the early part of the cycle?

Thanks

[pandroid]

Looks right to me. 

Indeed it was, thanks for checking. I'm now a proud owner of a new-old keyboard!

[njbair]

Got my Teensy in the mail today. I couldn't believe how easy this was to set up!



Now I can fully take advantage of my PC-122's battle station keys.

[njbair]

So the docs say not to use FAKE_01 thru FAKE_19 because they are deprecated. Use EXTRA_* instead. But I don't see a replacement for FAKE_01 (B0) in the current table. This corresponds to the top-left nav cluster key on my PC-122 (where Insert usually is). The docs seem to skip over B0 and go right from AF to B1.

What EXTRA code do I use instead of FAKE_01? Am I missing something? Also, it looks like FAKE_18 (C1) is also missing from the main code listing.

[E TwentyNine]

It's deprecated, it should still work.

[njbair]

It's deprecated, it should still work.

Yes, the FAKE_* codes still work but I'm just wondering if there's a replacement for them so that I can future-proof my config.

[E TwentyNine]

You're future proofed.  May not be as pretty as you like though.

Soarer hasn't been around here for a while now and I doubt any updates are coming soon.

If he did update there's no real valid reason for removing deprecated constants.

Checking the binary there are 17 EXTRA_ codes and 19 FAKE_ codes defined.   I pulled all the codes out of the binary, in attached file.

I don't know if there's a generic HID_## definition that will let you specify the code directly, didn't see anything in the docs.

[berserkfan]

Hey Guys

 I have a couple of Arduinos but was never able to make them work.

I flashed them with great difficulty, but if anyone can suggest an easier way please tell. Dorkvader linked me to some rather complex instructions, already 95% refined by DV from the original discussion threads, but still hard enough to follow that I can't remember what I did.

Then I got soarer on them, but couldn't make progress after that. Windows Device Manager detects Soarer's Keyboard Converter. The red light is on, showing power is recieved.  scwr.exe shows that Soarer was indeed flashed correctly. My multimeter on DC voltage shows that voltage between vcc and gnd pins is 3.52v with the keyboard connected, and 4.55v without the keyboard.

  As reported here. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71975.0

Findecanor has recommended that I short the J1 pins, but before I do anything that involves shorting anything I'd like to hear how other people did it!

[Halvar]

So the docs say not to use FAKE_01 thru FAKE_19 because they are deprecated. Use EXTRA_* instead. But I don't see a replacement for FAKE_01 (B0) in the current table. This corresponds to the top-left nav cluster key on my PC-122 (where Insert usually is). The docs seem to skip over B0 and go right from AF to B1.

What EXTRA code do I use instead of FAKE_01? Am I missing something? Also, it looks like FAKE_18 (C1) is also missing from the main code listing.

The top left key on the numpad of a 122 key terminal keyboard is ESC by default. I'm using that to remap it (to NumLock), and it works. If your PC-122 (?) is a mode 3 board (i.e. a terminal board), it should work for you, too.

Where on the keyboard is FAKE_18?

[njbair]

So the docs say not to use FAKE_01 thru FAKE_19 because they are deprecated. Use EXTRA_* instead. But I don't see a replacement for FAKE_01 (B0) in the current table. This corresponds to the top-left nav cluster key on my PC-122 (where Insert usually is). The docs seem to skip over B0 and go right from AF to B1.

What EXTRA code do I use instead of FAKE_01? Am I missing something? Also, it looks like FAKE_18 (C1) is also missing from the main code listing.

The top left key on the numpad of a 122 key terminal keyboard is ESC by default. I'm using that to remap it (to NumLock), and it works. If your PC-122 (?) is a mode 3 board (i.e. a terminal board), it should work for you, too.

Where on the keyboard is FAKE_18?

Mine is a Unicomp PS/2 PC-122. I did an ANSI layout conversion when I screw modded it, but that doesn't affect the keys in question.

BTW, I'm not talking about top left on the numpad, but rather the nav cluster (above the arrow keys). FAKE_01 works, I just saw the deprecation notice which is why I asked about it.

FAKE_18 corresponds to one of the meta cluster keys to the left of the alphas. I don't remember which one, but I think it was 2nd or 3rd from the bottom on the right. Again, FAKE_18 works fine to remap that key.

I'm just wondering why those two don't have replacement designations. Maybe Soarer didn't have a board to test these two when he redefined those constants?

[Halvar]

Ah, I should read better.

You're probably right with your theory. I have both an IBM F-122 and an M-122, but they both use the terminal protocol, and I didn't need the FAKE_xx codes to fully convert them. The key on the upper left of the nav cluster on them just gives me INSERT like it's supposed to. I guess Unicomp might have come up with some different, special codes for their PC-122 boards that Soarer didn't consider.

[berserkfan]

Ah, I should read better.

You're probably right with your theory. I have both an IBM F-122 and an M-122, but they both use the terminal protocol, and I didn't need the FAKE_xx codes to fully convert them. The key on the upper left of the nav cluster on them just gives me INSERT like it's supposed to. I guess Unicomp might have come up with some different, special codes for their PC-122 boards that Soarer didn't consider.

Having owned different Model Ms and Fs I can reassure you that there are a lot of weird models out there which send weird scancodes. I suspect that during these early computing days when a lot of hardware was still fairly proprietary, there would be big organizations ordering like 10000 keyboards with a few unique scancodes that worked only on their software.

So I always do HID test. And I am often surprised.

[njbair]

Ah, I should read better.

You're probably right with your theory. I have both an IBM F-122 and an M-122, but they both use the terminal protocol, and I didn't need the FAKE_xx codes to fully convert them. The key on the upper left of the nav cluster on them just gives me INSERT like it's supposed to. I guess Unicomp might have come up with some different, special codes for their PC-122 boards that Soarer didn't consider.

Having owned different Model Ms and Fs I can reassure you that there are a lot of weird models out there which send weird scancodes. I suspect that during these early computing days when a lot of hardware was still fairly proprietary, there would be big organizations ordering like 10000 keyboards with a few unique scancodes that worked only on their software.

So I always do HID test. And I am often surprised.

Yeah I did the HID test for every key. AFAIK there was no pattern to the scancodes for any of the keys in the F13-F24 bank or the meta cluster on the left.

I take that back. I believe the keys labeled F17-F24 corresponded to the scancodes for F13-F20, respectively. Everything else was an utter hodgepodge.

Oh, well. At least I've got the FAKE_* codes that I can use. And if Soarer ever removes those I'll just make some noise that the replacements need to be added. Fortunately, as already stated, this is unlikely to happen at this point.

[Halvar]

@berserkfan: Generally speaking that's definitely true, but we're talking about IBM in the late 80s to early 90s here, and I think IBM's hardware was pretty standardized at this time at this level. Do you have an example for a Model M keyboard with weird protocols/keycodes from the IBM time? The only example I can think of are their 122 key boards for PCs that were used to emulate a terminal on a PC, and those POS matrix boards.

The Unicomp PC-122 is a more or less modern keyboard though, and I don't really trust Unicomp to adhere to any IBM standards. Much more than IBM they are the kind of company that would custom-taylor controllers for special applications.

[JPG]

Hey Guys

 I have a couple of Arduinos but was never able to make them work.

I flashed them with great difficulty, but if anyone can suggest an easier way please tell. Dorkvader linked me to some rather complex instructions, already 95% refined by DV from the original discussion threads, but still hard enough to follow that I can't remember what I did.

Then I got soarer on them, but couldn't make progress after that. Windows Device Manager detects Soarer's Keyboard Converter. The red light is on, showing power is recieved.  scwr.exe shows that Soarer was indeed flashed correctly. My multimeter on DC voltage shows that voltage between vcc and gnd pins is 3.52v with the keyboard connected, and 4.55v without the keyboard.

  As reported here. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71975.0

Findecanor has recommended that I short the J1 pins, but before I do anything that involves shorting anything I'd like to hear how other people did it!

The pro micro is the only converter I used so far. I used it on my AT, F122 and XT. Worked with all of them (even if the first time it was hard to find how to flash it). Some people said sometime you need a pullup resistor if your cable is very long, but I never had this issue. What keyboard are you trying to use?

[berserkfan]

Hey Guys

 I have a couple of Arduinos but was never able to make them work.

I flashed them with great difficulty, but if anyone can suggest an easier way please tell. Dorkvader linked me to some rather complex instructions, already 95% refined by DV from the original discussion threads, but still hard enough to follow that I can't remember what I did.

Then I got soarer on them, but couldn't make progress after that. Windows Device Manager detects Soarer's Keyboard Converter. The red light is on, showing power is recieved.  scwr.exe shows that Soarer was indeed flashed correctly. My multimeter on DC voltage shows that voltage between vcc and gnd pins is 3.52v with the keyboard connected, and 4.55v without the keyboard.

  As reported here. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71975.0

Findecanor has recommended that I short the J1 pins, but before I do anything that involves shorting anything I'd like to hear how other people did it!

The pro micro is the only converter I used so far. I used it on my AT, F122 and XT. Worked with all of them (even if the first time it was hard to find how to flash it). Some people said sometime you need a pullup resistor if your cable is very long, but I never had this issue. What keyboard are you trying to use?

I am trying to use my two Arduinos on a Model F 122 key.

On one arduino I used a big blob of solder to merge the two J1 components together. On the other ardunio, I used a piece of wire to bridge the two components. Both did not work – exactly same result as always where the Soarer keyboard converter could be found and the Arduino LED lighted up, but no HID codes could be detected.

Did I do something wrong? The J1 is a square pad with two tiny rectangular components. Should I have bridged the two J1 pads with the USB micro casing instead? Or bridged the J1 components with other pads?
I am trying to use my two Arduinos on a Model F 122 key.

On one arduino I used a big blob of solder to merge the two J1 components together. On the other ardunio, I used a piece of wire to bridge the two components. Both did not work – exactly same result as always where the Soarer keyboard converter could be found and the Arduino LED lighted up, but no HID codes could be detected.

Did I do something wrong? The J1 is a square pad with two tiny rectangular components. Should I have bridged the two J1 pads with the USB micro casing instead? Or bridged the J1 components with other pads?
I am trying to use my two Arduinos on a Model F 122 key.

On one arduino I used a big blob of solder to merge the two J1 components together. On the other ardunio, I used a piece of wire to bridge the two components. Both did not work – exactly same result as always where the Soarer keyboard converter could be found and the Arduino LED lighted up, but no HID codes could be detected.

Did I do something wrong? The J1 is a square pad with two tiny rectangular components. Should I have bridged the two J1 pads with the USB micro casing instead? Or bridged the J1 components with other pads?

As for cable, I changed to a very short USB micro cable just in case. USB micro cables of different lengths don't work.

[dark_samus]

Soarer you should release the source code for this I want to port it to an atmega32u2 (maybe you can compile a version for me or something) any help would be apreciated 

[fohat.digs]

Soarer has been silent for well over a year now.

We all miss him badly.

[Snarfangel]

I bought a converter from orihalcon, and want to do major changes to the mapping from a Maltron two-handed keyboard. I have a single question to start with (I will have more! Oh yes, I will have many, many more!):

Is it easy to change Soarer's converter back to its default setting (i.e. wipe out all of the cruft -- mappings and macros) in memory? Or is it a matter of rewriting all of the settings?

I just want a format c: command for the thing (ignoring the firmware, of course), and start fresh. )

[njbair]

I bought a converter from orihalcon, and want to do major changes to the mapping from a Maltron two-handed keyboard. I have a single question to start with (I will have more! Oh yes, I will have many, many more!):

Is it easy to change Soarer's converter back to its default setting (i.e. wipe out all of the cruft -- mappings and macros) in memory? Or is it a matter of rewriting all of the settings?

I just want a format c: command for the thing (ignoring the firmware, of course), and start fresh. )

AFAIK you can use an empty file the same way as you would any other config (build .sc to .scb and write) and it should wipe all settings.

[Blaise170]

.

[fohat.digs]

Orihalcon encloses his gear in a tiny package.

An actual Teensy has a reset button.

[Blaise170]

My search skills have failed me, so hope I can find an answer here. Is there a pinout for the Arduino Leonardo? I managed to get one of mine flashed with Soarer but I have no idea which pins to use.

[njbair]

My search skills have failed me, so hope I can find an answer here. Is there a pinout for the Arduino Leonardo? I managed to get one of mine flashed with Soarer but I have no idea which pins to use.

You may have to pull up a teensy pinout and the Leonardo one side by side and map it out.

[Halvar]

This should help:

http://www.johngineer.com/blog/?p=1224

[Blaise170]

Managed to find one, I'll link it here for future reference.


Edit: thanks, I just found it too.

[Misha353W]

Yesterday my order from China arrived, with 2 Arduino Leonardo clones
I flashed one of them with "Soarer_at2usb_v1.11_atmega32u4.hex". According to the Arduino builder the upload was successful but when I look in the device manager it shows 2 HID Keyboard Devices that both come from this one board. This doesn't seem right to me, should I try flashing the hex file again? I'm still waiting for a DIN socket to arrive so I can't test the keyboard yet...

[Ir0n]

Edit: I got it

[Misha353W]

It's alive! This is the first post I'm typing on my 1987 Model M! I got the din socket in the mail yesterday and soldered all the parts together 10 minutes ago. It needs some fine tuning to work with the German layout but I'm quite happy it works and I want to enjoy the sound of it for a while before I do anything else with it.
After plugging in the keyboard for the 1st time it kept repeating the keys I pressed, but that problem seems to be gone now. The second keyboard still shows up in the device manager but apparently that doesn't cause any problems.

[warfaren]

Been using it for a while now with my XT Model F and loving it! Now, if I could only get it to work with my KVM switch, it would be the best thing ever. It just won't work though, I'm assuming it's because of how it achieves full NKRO. If there's a way to disable that I would be perfectly happy with the 6KRO USB provides anyway.

[Blaise170]

It's alive! This is the first post I'm typing on my 1987 Model M! I got the din socket in the mail yesterday and soldered all the parts together 10 minutes ago. It needs some fine tuning to work with the German layout but I'm quite happy it works and I want to enjoy the sound of it for a while before I do anything else with it.
After plugging in the keyboard for the 1st time it kept repeating the keys I pressed, but that problem seems to be gone now. The second keyboard still shows up in the device manager but apparently that doesn't cause any problems.

Been using it for a while now with my XT Model F and loving it! Now, if I could only get it to work with my KVM switch, it would be the best thing ever. It just won't work though, I'm assuming it's because of how it achieves full NKRO. If there's a way to disable that I would be perfectly happy with the 6KRO USB provides anyway.

Hi guys, unfortunately Soarer disappeared last year and (as far as I know) no one knows what happened. I don't know enough about AVR programming to help either. Sorry about that. 

[fohat.digs]

unfortunately Soarer disappeared last year

I think it has been closer to 2 years. I just hope that he got a new girl friend and went off the grid in Pago Pago.

[Blaise170]

unfortunately Soarer disappeared last year

I think it has been closer to 2 years. I just hope that he got a new girl friend and went off the grid in Pago Pago.

Yep, last login August 2014 so over a year ago.

[jiexi]

Just want to make sure, is this the most up-to-date soarer's mod thread? Can I use this with an IBM 5576-003? Can it be set to block obvious keychatter (double presses)?

Thanks!

[Halvar]

@jiexy: This is the thread on Soarer's PS/2 to USB converter, there is also a keyboard controller by Soarer, but that's a different thread.

You can probably use the converter with the 5576 since it has a PS/2 connector. That said, I haven't seen much talk about using it with JIS layout keyboards in this thread, so there might be problems we don't know about.

Keychatter is normally something that the original controller of the keyboard should take care of before producing PS/2 signals. The converter doesn't have a function for that IIRC.

If that's important to you, you should probably replace the original controller. You can use Soarer's controller instead, or there are also other alternative controller firmware source codes that can be compiled to run on Teensies or Arduinos. Soarer's controller is said to have good chatter control, and you can configure it without compiling.