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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: typo on Tue, 14 November 2017, 01:09:58
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I always figured PBT is simply better than ABS hands down. GMK has changed that feeling. After they get shiny it is not like a $5 rubber dome. It is a very nice feel IMO. I am sure everyone knows this but I figured just in case anyone does not. ABS or not they are some of the best key caps IMO. I never thought I would say that about ABS :)
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GMK is like a fine wine... you have to let them age :))
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What bugs me is when they (almost invariably) shine unevenly.
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What bugs me is when they (almost invariably) shine unevenly.
That's the best part really, they wear to fit the user
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I always hated shiny ABS. I love these. There are obviously different qualities of anything. ABS gets a bad rep because it is all on junk $5 boards. The whole set plus 3 extra and one custom was about 200 bucks. Had to collect them too they do not just come in a package. They feel sublime and now PBT just feels hard. These are like butter. I had to use them like 3 months before shiny and I bet they have a ways to go. I think signature plastics might be pretty similar? The Germans make quality though. This is no Chinese BS.
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I love my GMK keys kinda love hate them! I hate they shined so fast.. but love the way they feel. Just dang man less then 2 weeks of use and the space bar is already shiny. I don't think I am that rough.
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I love my GMK keys kinda love hate them! I hate they shined so fast.. but love the way they feel. Just dang man less then 2 weeks of use and the space bar is already shiny. I don't think I am that rough.
That has to be somehow related to your skin chemistry, because after several month of use I didn't have shine on my GMK spacebar.
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I love my GMK keys kinda love hate them! I hate they shined so fast.. but love the way they feel. Just dang man less then 2 weeks of use and the space bar is already shiny. I don't think I am that rough.
That has to be somehow related to your skin chemistry, because after several month of use I didn't have shine on my GMK spacebar.
read that multiple places and it sounds silly but makes perfect since. That skin chemistry would react to the ABS when its being touched. I think you might very well be right. It also explain logically why my JTK isn't shined yet. Assuming they use another plastic formula ((Key's dont feel the same to me)). There got to be a handful of recipes to make ABS plastic sure not everyone uses the exact same formula. Cause I know the GMK have a soft almost butter feeling to them. Thats just so nice to type on and the JTK's are a bit harder.
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I have an old set of OG Cherry doubleshots. Either by extreme use or by intentional buffing, they are entirely shiny. There is no texture left on any key. Combined with my OG KMAC and korean-tuned ergo-clears, hey are hands down my favorite set. Pure bliss. I agree that Cherry/GMK is better than PBT (Imsto, EnjoyPBT, etc) and far better than SP ABS or POM.
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Shiny OG dyesub PBT is where the real truth is. Feels like GMK++
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It must take a long time to shine a PBT set
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It must take a long time to shine a PBT set
I have been trying to...
My set still looks brand new, no shine what so ever even half a year later.
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It must take a long time to shine a PBT set
I have a keyboard with shined PBT from probably 20 years ago... it was used as a phone company operators keyboard so typed on constantly 24 hours a day for a decade. The caps are beautiful. Not to mention the cherry black switches are the smoothest blacks i've ever felt and they're not vintage. :eek:
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It must take a long time to shine a PBT set
I have a keyboard with shined PBT from probably 20 years ago... it was used as a phone company operators keyboard so typed on constantly 24 hours a day for a decade. The caps are beautiful. Not to mention the cherry black switches are the smoothest blacks i've ever felt and they're not vintage. :eek:
That's cool! I've had a similar experience.
I'm using some Nissho hipro key caps on my HHKB. They're PBT and also super shiny... Definitely my favorite set in looks and feel.
I think the key caps were worn in from all the years of data entry in Japan lol.
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my main pbt set on my lz-s is starting to shine. ABS sucks ass but GMK is tolerable ABS. PBT still superior in every way especially since legends are for scrubs anyway. and POM >>>>>
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GMK quality has slipped slightly in recent months with the rise of colorways ported from the mainstream community, but the tooling has not changed, and that's what matters. OG doubleshots always feel amazing when worn.
German engineering man. I can't say the same for VW but the quality of GMK is timeless. I can see where that quality comes from when I look at my Eickhorn KM2000.
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GMK quality has slipped slightly in recent months with the rise of colorways ported from the mainstream community, but the tooling has not changed, and that's what matters. OG doubleshots always feel amazing when worn.
German engineering man. I can't say the same for VW but the quality of GMK is timeless. I can see where that quality comes from when I look at my Eickhorn KM2000.
just curious to what you mean? I recently got a GMK set thats fresh run and the spacebar shined in no time we are talking less then a month. I just wondering if thats what you meant with drop in quality. I am kinda at the moment just contributing it to... my skin but the JTK set have had for a few months has zero shine and has been used more overall.
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just curious to what you mean? I recently got a GMK set thats fresh run and the spacebar shined in no time we are talking less then a month. I just wondering if thats what you meant with drop in quality. I am kinda at the moment just contributing it to... my skin but the JTK set have had for a few months has zero shine and has been used more overall.
Which GMK set?
My Sky Dolch had some poorly aligned (for GMK) legends. HFuse I cannot say because I hated GMK HFuse and its horrible contrast on the mods (SP's color palette for DSA HFuse is far better). Carbon is a good example as font thicknesses are all over the place (I like to draw comparison between the nubbed and the regular F keys I have, one is bold and the other looks like the "light" version of the font). My JTK WoB seems kinda oily off the bat so there's not too much of a difference between new and worn.
The current OG G80-3000 doubleshots I'm typing on are actually flawless for something that is decades old. Shiny of course, but that is part of the GMK appeal. Same with the French G80-3700 keys I have (sadly the board is gone). They are not shiny but I can't pick out a single thing wrong with the keys. Made in January 2001. I also have a Classic Retro set from GMK that is obviously new(er) but holds to a stellar level of perfection.
F, WASD, Q and E wore shiny on my Sky Dolch within 2 months. It's what ABS does. At least it's easy to wash off the skin oils and retain the attractive, smooth shine with GMK, as opposed to mass-market and OEM ABS that becomes horrible and disgusting in both aesthetics and feel after worn.
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just curious to what you mean? I recently got a GMK set thats fresh run and the spacebar shined in no time we are talking less then a month. I just wondering if thats what you meant with drop in quality. I am kinda at the moment just contributing it to... my skin but the JTK set have had for a few months has zero shine and has been used more overall.
Which GMK set?
My Sky Dolch had some poorly aligned (for GMK) legends. HFuse I cannot say because I hated GMK HFuse and its horrible contrast on the mods (SP's color palette for DSA HFuse is far better). Carbon is a good example as font thicknesses are all over the place (I like to draw comparison between the nubbed and the regular F keys I have, one is bold and the other looks like the "light" version of the font). My JTK WoB seems kinda oily off the bat so there's not too much of a difference between new and worn.
The current OG G80-3000 doubleshots I'm typing on are actually flawless for something that is decades old. Shiny of course, but that is part of the GMK appeal. Same with the French G80-3700 keys I have (sadly the board is gone). They are not shiny but I can't pick out a single thing wrong with the keys. Made in January 2001. I also have a Classic Retro set from GMK that is obviously new(er) but holds to a stellar level of perfection.
F, WASD, Q and E wore shiny on my Sky Dolch within 2 months. It's what ABS does. At least it's easy to wash off the skin oils and retain the attractive, smooth shine with GMK, as opposed to mass-market and OEM ABS that becomes horrible and disgusting in both aesthetics and feel after worn.
It was GMK Miami nights. Which was a recent buy. I keep debating back and forth about lazer. I really want it but it feels pretty crappy to spend 180 bucks are in this case it be 119 (which is easier to justify by a lot) for something you know is going to get shiny in a few weeks and not look new.
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just curious to what you mean? I recently got a GMK set thats fresh run and the spacebar shined in no time we are talking less then a month. I just wondering if thats what you meant with drop in quality. I am kinda at the moment just contributing it to... my skin but the JTK set have had for a few months has zero shine and has been used more overall.
Which GMK set?
My Sky Dolch had some poorly aligned (for GMK) legends. HFuse I cannot say because I hated GMK HFuse and its horrible contrast on the mods (SP's color palette for DSA HFuse is far better). Carbon is a good example as font thicknesses are all over the place (I like to draw comparison between the nubbed and the regular F keys I have, one is bold and the other looks like the "light" version of the font). My JTK WoB seems kinda oily off the bat so there's not too much of a difference between new and worn.
The current OG G80-3000 doubleshots I'm typing on are actually flawless for something that is decades old. Shiny of course, but that is part of the GMK appeal. Same with the French G80-3700 keys I have (sadly the board is gone). They are not shiny but I can't pick out a single thing wrong with the keys. Made in January 2001. I also have a Classic Retro set from GMK that is obviously new(er) but holds to a stellar level of perfection.
F, WASD, Q and E wore shiny on my Sky Dolch within 2 months. It's what ABS does. At least it's easy to wash off the skin oils and retain the attractive, smooth shine with GMK, as opposed to mass-market and OEM ABS that becomes horrible and disgusting in both aesthetics and feel after worn.
It was GMK Miami nights. Which was a recent buy. I keep debating back and forth about lazer. I really want it but it feels pretty crappy to spend 180 bucks are in this case it be 119 (which is easier to justify by a lot) for something you know is going to get shiny in a few weeks and not look new.
These sets are what I was referring to as the new wave of mainstream color ways.
It’s not to disparage these creations. But at $120, the same price as Carbon, you get what you pay for compared to vastly more expensive classic sets. Dunno what it is, probably GMK rushing to meet demand for the ultra large GBs of new sets off MD.
GMK is not for everybody, the same way DSA is scorned by many on GH for being too primitive and unergonomic. Personally both have their applications.
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GMK quality hasn't slipped, just seems to vary more from set to set now
like my soware is perfect, but my olivetti from 2013 has some strange legend alignment issues
GMK's "T" mold has always had an alignment issue, interestingly
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What bugs me is when they (almost invariably) shine unevenly.
a-freakin-men it's super annoying
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What bugs me is when they (almost invariably) shine unevenly.
a-freakin-men it's super annoying
stop typing the same words! For me its the right hand home-row that gets polished first since thats where my hand rests most of the time.
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What bugs me is when they (almost invariably) shine unevenly.
a-freakin-men it's super annoying
Once they are good and shined up, just go get a drill polishing pad and even them all out. Haven't tried this out yet but someday I think I will.
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Mine is a few years old. Then luckily. I traded someone for a PBT set I had. Why is PBT shiny so good? It is too hard IMO. I do not think it is possible to "man up" then I already am plus play electric Bass. Really just preferences. As long as Dye Sub or Double Shot at least the legends will not wear. I do not mind blank but hate half off legends to varying degrees. I love on Topre RGB just the bleed through lighting. Much better than lit legends IMO.
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when i go to meetups, i bring my GMK olivetti set and ask people which thumb i use for spacebar
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when i go to meetups, i bring my GMK olivetti set and ask people which thumb i use for spacebar
Why? Because it is shiny or not shiny?
I don't mind the shine so much except on space bars, where it's very uneven. I use both thumbs for spacebar, but according to the shine on my FC200R, I use my right thumb two or three times as much as my left.
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when i go to meetups, i bring my GMK olivetti set and ask people which thumb i use for spacebar
Why? Because it is shiny or not shiny?
I don't mind the shine so much except on space bars, where it's very uneven. I use both thumbs for spacebar, but according to the shine on my FC200R, I use my right thumb two or three times as much as my left.
the left side of the spacebar has mirror shine, the right side is basically new
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Shiny OG dyesub PBT is where the real truth is. Feels like GMK++
This is absolutely true, sir.
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Why is PBT shiny so good? It is too hard IMO.
It is harder for sure, but I like the sound. ABS is good for a time, but I like switching back and forth. Shiny PBT gives the grippiness of a shiny set and softens the feeling a bit IMO. I don't enjoy the dry feeling of brand new caps as much all the time.
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Am i the only one who has never had an issue with caps becoming shiny? Maybe I just don't type enough :-[
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Am i the only one who has never had an issue with caps becoming shiny? Maybe I just don't type enough :-[
you're not the only one, pls lord make me keycap shine.
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Picked up my first ABS set recently (GMK Carbon) and was very pleased. It almost feels like ceramic?
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when i go to meetups, i bring my GMK olivetti set and ask people which thumb i use for spacebar
Why? Because it is shiny or not shiny?
I don't mind the shine so much except on space bars, where it's very uneven. I use both thumbs for spacebar, but according to the shine on my FC200R, I use my right thumb two or three times as much as my left.
the left side of the spacebar has mirror shine, the right side is basically new
time to flip the space bar like the cool kids! :p
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when i go to meetups, i bring my GMK olivetti set and ask people which thumb i use for spacebar
Why? Because it is shiny or not shiny?
I don't mind the shine so much except on space bars, where it's very uneven. I use both thumbs for spacebar, but according to the shine on my FC200R, I use my right thumb two or three times as much as my left.
the left side of the spacebar has mirror shine, the right side is basically new
time to flip the space bar like the cool kids! :p
FLIP! FLIP! FLIP!FLIP!!!!
YOU AIN'T WINNIN' IF YOU AIN'T FLIPPIN'
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when i go to meetups, i bring my GMK olivetti set and ask people which thumb i use for spacebar
Why? Because it is shiny or not shiny?
I don't mind the shine so much except on space bars, where it's very uneven. I use both thumbs for spacebar, but according to the shine on my FC200R, I use my right thumb two or three times as much as my left.
the left side of the spacebar has mirror shine, the right side is basically new
time to flip the space bar like the cool kids! :p
Eeewww.
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I wonder if abs keycaps can be re-textured. I was thinking about heating up something with texture and essentially branding the surface of the cap. Or alternatively, use a medium grit sandpaper to put some texture back into the key. If this works, I can imagine it can be repeated several times before it compromises the structure of the keycaps.
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I've been a GMK defender for a while, but we're finally starting to see some really good stuff in PBT. Years ago our options for premium PBT was basically KBDFans (even then inconsistent) and then a bunch of much lesser quality ones.
I got Sanctuary Rebirth (Infinikey) and this is basically good GMK quality. And I love the deeper/bassier sound of PBT but I'm a sound ****.
One other nice thing about GMK is with the desirable sets you can basically make your money back on even a shined set. I did this when I sold a quite used Oblivion R1, then even paying slightly higher Drop extras price for R2 (forgot to buy it when GB was active) I broke even and no more shine.
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It looks like Infinikey has inverse-dye sub nailed down on the PBT, and they're going to be a serious threat to GMK if they can consistently deliver quality, since it negates one of the main advantages of double-shot ABS (freedom of color choice, and using light legends on dark), with all the shine-resistance advantages of PBT.
Their full inverse-dye sub sets (WoB) are about the same cost as GMK but have larger base-kits, and ones that aren't full inverse-dye sub are noticeably cheaper for base kits (~$80-90 instead of $110+). Their stated turnaround times are also much shorter than GMK right now (looks to be around 4.5 months).
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I wonder if abs keycaps can be re-textured. I was thinking about heating up something with texture and essentially branding the surface of the cap. Or alternatively, use a medium grit sandpaper to put some texture back into the key. If this works, I can imagine it can be repeated several times before it compromises the structure of the keycaps.
This might interest you: https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=12946
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I think the ABS reputation is also affected by the cheaper manufacturers. Not all ABS keycaps are the same for sure. When new, GMK's keycaps have a somewhat textured finish, similar to that of PBT in both look and feel!
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This is good to read. After doing this for quite some time now, I finally gave in and ordered a GMk set, because I've never touched one.
I'm honestly super excited for them to arrive!