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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: Ranger_Trivette on Thu, 21 October 2021, 04:07:48

Title: [IC] SolidBrass 60% [v2 UPDATE]
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Thu, 21 October 2021, 04:07:48
SolidBrass 60%
a solid brass 60% keyboard.


Discord (https://discord.gg/b5NHNFGf9g) - Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/solid_brass_keyboards/) - InterestCheck (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf23u0v-Lr0PfkGYTAtHgUuUJCJLZ2ksVSlNDaJ_eRCoxjg2A/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1&flr=0) - Solid-Brass.it (https://www.solid-brass.it/)

(https://i.imgur.com/gnIJ8op.jpg)   (https://i.imgur.com/PEvGyWs.jpg)

Shortly: gasket mount, 304x110, 18mm front, 30mm back, 7°


Something about me:

My name is Corrado and i'm from Italy.
I'm a naval and mechanical engineer.
I currently work as product engineer and i'm relatively new to this hobby.

During the first Corona lockdown, i started gaming. I bought a cheap mechanical keyboard from aliexpress... that's how it started :)

I started designing this keyboard on september '20.
On march '21 i completed all the 3d components, ipt/stp file, dwg drawings and i started asking for quotations all around the world.
A month later i decided to order 4 complete board samples.
Factory got closed for few week due to Corona virus.
10 days ago, i finally received the samples i ordered.

Everything work, but i'm not happy with the overall quality. This is why, while these keyboards will go to the plating plant, i'm ordering a new sample from another supplier.

[UPDATE]
v2 samples arrived this week.
i'm finally happy with the quality :)
now blockers are gone.
you can finaly see the laser engraved logo and number.

Layout and PCB:

The keyboard has been designed aroud the Wilba Graphite 60%.
A custom PCB give you the possibility to further personalize your design. But force customers to buy extra pcb to avoid problems in the future.
A custom PCB may generate issues that i'm not able to solve (i've no experience with pcb and electrical circuits). Especially now, with components shortage, this can cause huge delay.
That's why i've preferred a standard one.

The plate allow all the layouts of the Graphite; ISO ANSI 6.25u and 7u spacebar.
The plate will be brass made. But i will share all the necessary files to produce by other materials.

Blockers allow you to remove the switches you don't like.

Backside plug allow you to chooce left/right/central positioning of the Usb-C.
Three different wirings will be provided to connect the PCB with the daughter board.
An oring on each plug avoid every possible vibration.
A brass set screw secures the plug in position.

(https://i.imgur.com/HaTImr1.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/0rypeCW.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/HD2R5kO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pKtwAzB.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/7ASNEPW.jpg)
(laser engraving is missing, must be done after the plating)

(https://i.imgur.com/y1XurgB.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/0OpnI8e.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/EIYoG3Z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B0CKe6x.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/yWNODWk.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/bzOyW5e.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p7cA8hm.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/vZ3y0KN.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/9hkWUgy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eBWYKPb.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/c8rHxjK.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/tLWqy9E.jpg)
Please note that every photos show natural brass (no protective treatment). Oxidation and spots are absolutely normal.


Material and colors:

When you use quality materials, there is no reason to cover and hide them.
My idea is to use Electroplating instead of painting/anodizing.
3 keyboards are now on their way to the plating plant.

I'll show you soon:
                                - Gold plating
                                - Silver plating
                                - Copper plating
                                - Natural brass with a transparent protector



(https://i.imgur.com/30vuNjt.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/F9lz7u5.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/VwJ0sUT.jpg)



Quantity and target price:

I don't have a MQO. Keyboards will be numbered from 1 to 100.
nr. 1 will be used as samples for photos and test. it will be sent to a content creator.
nr. 2 to 100 will be sold through a GB.

Target price under 500€. I'll do my best to decrease it.
Copper, silver and gold plated will have the price (but i'll confirm that soon).
EVA handbag, extra screews, are included.
No extras. I'm working on a keycap with the logo.
If it works, it will be included.
A brass cap will be included  :thumb:

(https://i.imgur.com/iOFFF1E.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/rz00jBS.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/XXOQGeP.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/8ceCgy0.jpg)



More Photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/oWru12X.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/yl1AJc9.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/kg2Rli7.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/2iR9pnp.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/uo9WEmm.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/GFWXxDX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cZ5opmb.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/44Ucrv8.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/M8eNuT1.jpg)



What's now?
We wait. In few week i should receive back samples from the plating factory.
I ordered another sample from a new supplier, trying to improve the quality.

the content creator will be announced soon  ;)
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Thu, 21 October 2021, 04:08:38
Quote from: Baka Bot on Thu, 21 October 2021, 09:20:25
not sure how i feel about the removable blockers
Quote from: yuutsu on Thu, 21 October 2021, 10:55:14
I would highly recommend not to go removable blockers, not only does it make the board look and feel cheap, but that’s a lot of small brass pieces that you have to QC, which would make the price a lot higher.
Quote from: kylekwong1 on Thu, 21 October 2021, 11:02:20
Removable blockers always make them feels like a afterthought

Quote from: whirlwind on Thu, 21 October 2021, 12:44:22
+1 of not using removable blockers. Otherwise this looks promising, GLWIC!


thanks for your replies :)
about the blockers. if the form shows that people don't like them, i'll remove them.
but i want to explain why i like them.

ordering 100 keyboard WITH blockers means ordering:
- 100 top body
- 400 small blockers
- 400 big blockers
100 pcs are a good number for cnc components. with 100pcs price will start decreasing.
(consider that 400+400 blockers cost less than half of 100 top body)

ordering 100 keyboard WITHOUT blocker means ordering:
30-40 top body for each version.
a 30pcs order isn't so good. cnc works require different program and the time spent programming cnc machinery will be spread over 30 pcs instead of 100.
(moving from 100 to 30-40pcs may easily double the price)

having said that, this won't be a cheap keyboard.
i don't like the idea of someone watching this and thinking i made cheap choices :)
give me some days to think about that and redroming the models without blockers


Quote from: zebus on Thu, 21 October 2021, 23:30:39
Will the "clear protector" on the brass be noticeable?

Could also just offer a raw brass, I can just add keyboard polishing to my list of pastime activities :D
brass get oxidized by the oxygen present in the air.
when you mill brass you remove the oxidized layer and you get the shiny, polished material that you imagine when you think "brass". :)
after few days, brass start being darker and less shiny.
the "protector" is a transparent paint. it will preserve brass at his original state.

yes, you can have raw brass. and i think is super cool. :) you will have a keyboard that grows old...
it will change his look during his lifetime. oxidation is a natural process and it doesn't damage brass at all.
indeed, brass get oxidized himself to self protect from oxygen.
on the contrary, if you want a always shiny product that even after 50years looks like a teenager, plating or transparent protection is your way :)
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: growler on Thu, 21 October 2021, 04:21:19
I *think* I like this

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Baka Bot on Thu, 21 October 2021, 09:20:25
not sure how i feel about the removable blockers
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: ee on Thu, 21 October 2021, 09:37:14
now THIS is epic
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: yuutsu on Thu, 21 October 2021, 10:55:14
I would highly recommend not to go removable blockers, not only does it make the board look and feel cheap, but that’s a lot of small brass pieces that you have to QC, which would make the price a lot higher.
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: kylekwong1 on Thu, 21 October 2021, 11:02:20
Removable blockers always make them feels like a afterthought
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: whirlwind on Thu, 21 October 2021, 12:44:22
+1 of not using removable blockers. Otherwise this looks promising, GLWIC!
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Havattack on Thu, 21 October 2021, 14:01:32
Bezels too skinny for me unfortunately.
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Cornelius240 on Thu, 21 October 2021, 23:26:29
I’m in.
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: zebus on Thu, 21 October 2021, 23:30:39
This is freakin' awesome

Will the "clear protector" on the brass be noticeable?

Could also just offer a raw brass, I can just add keyboard polishing to my list of pastime activities :D
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: quinnwinn1 on Fri, 22 October 2021, 20:20:17
Looks great! I'm in  :)
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Sun, 24 October 2021, 06:03:45
Quote from: Baka Bot on Thu, 21 October 2021, 09:20:25
not sure how i feel about the removable blockers
Quote from: yuutsu on Thu, 21 October 2021, 10:55:14
I would highly recommend not to go removable blockers, not only does it make the board look and feel cheap, but that’s a lot of small brass pieces that you have to QC, which would make the price a lot higher.
Quote from: kylekwong1 on Thu, 21 October 2021, 11:02:20
Removable blockers always make them feels like a afterthought

Quote from: whirlwind on Thu, 21 October 2021, 12:44:22
+1 of not using removable blockers. Otherwise this looks promising, GLWIC!

since many of you ask about the blocker, i updated the second post. ;)


Quote from: zebus on Thu, 21 October 2021, 23:30:39
Will the "clear protector" on the brass be noticeable?

Could also just offer a raw brass, I can just add keyboard polishing to my list of pastime activities :D
raw brass is a cool idea :) i've replied on the second comment!
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: brodiegrizz on Sun, 24 October 2021, 13:01:06
thoccy
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Reign-E on Mon, 25 October 2021, 19:36:30
This would look cool with Malachite blank keycaps
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: AlexCore89 on Wed, 27 October 2021, 10:07:43
Whoah! This is very nice! I'm definitely loving it!
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Joaquox on Thu, 28 October 2021, 12:05:47
I don't like the visible seam.
Make it seamless, charge whatever you want and I'll buy it.
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Fri, 29 October 2021, 01:49:13
Quote from: Joaquox on Thu, 28 October 2021, 12:05:47
I don't like the visible seam.
Make it seamless, charge whatever you want and I'll buy it.
i've never thought about that. i like the idea. definitely possible.
this increase the amount of brass that have to be milled.
but may it worth a try.

let me work on it
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: SmitH1y on Tue, 02 November 2021, 10:14:00
This is going to be one heavy boy, not to mention the shipping costs :D
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: windlabs on Tue, 02 November 2021, 20:49:05
nice board
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Tree_ on Wed, 03 November 2021, 00:00:30
I'm a fan of everything except the blockers and changeable USB positions.

Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Wed, 03 November 2021, 03:40:11
Quote from: SmitH1y on Tue, 02 November 2021, 10:14:00
This is going to be one heavy boy, not to mention the shipping costs :D
about 3kg, 70*380*180mm.
shipped from italy.
you can check the freight to your city :)

but, if we reach 100pcs, i'll probably include the shipping cost.

Quote from: windlabs on Tue, 02 November 2021, 20:49:05
nice board
thanks! :)

Quote from: Tree_ on Wed, 03 November 2021, 00:00:30
I'm a fan of everything except the blockers and changeable USB positions.

  • If the argument for and against blockers is around the cost of producing tops, I'd prefer the options were limited to just WK and WKL.
  • There doesn't seem to be any reason specified for the three different USB cut outs? Why wouldn't you just have the one slot? The additional slots and visible seams from the blockers isn't very visually appealing.

1) the argument around frontal blockers is related to producing costs. in the second comment you can read the explanation. let me know if there is something unclear.  :thumb:
yesterday i've sent all the updated drawings to the cnc supplier. i'll get a quotation for WK, WKL and HHKB.
this will impact the production cost for sure. but target price is still under 500€ for now.
i expect to have the updated quotation by the end of next week.
once i get the price for polishing/transparent protective/plating, i'll let you know the final price.

2) the reason isn't related to producing cost. on the contrary, a single position would decrease the cost.
i like the fact that everyone can choose the position of their usb cable. is something personal and depends of your desk layout.
right now the seam is visible. overall quality need to be improved.
the new sample will have 0,2mm seam between the two components.
let's see what the new supplier can do. we have time to decide if the back blockers need to stay.

Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: derpanda on Thu, 04 November 2021, 11:22:15
I think your intent with the movable USB ports is well-intended, but it is almost close to standard default to always have it in the same position as it makes PCB compatibility easier to achieve, so I don't think anybody would mind only having a cutout on the left side. I think the best idea would be to just create a poll on the port placement. Definitely looks interesting though, so I will also be keeping an eye out for this board.
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Mandabanker007 on Sun, 07 November 2021, 18:20:26
This is super cool
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: windlabs on Sun, 07 November 2021, 20:59:20
nice work
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Mon, 15 November 2021, 01:54:48
Quote from: derpanda on Thu, 04 November 2021, 11:22:15
I think your intent with the movable USB ports is well-intended, but it is almost close to standard default to always have it in the same position as it makes PCB compatibility easier to achieve, so I don't think anybody would mind only having a cutout on the left side. I think the best idea would be to just create a poll on the port placement. Definitely looks interesting though, so I will also be keeping an eye out for this board.
you need a PCB with daughterboard. and the daughterboard must have the right center-to-center distance between screws.
i don't think there is a compatible PCB other than the wilba graphite.
let me know if i misunderstood something.

Quote from: Mandabanker007 on Sun, 07 November 2021, 18:20:26
This is super cool
thanks! :)

Quote from: windlabs on Sun, 07 November 2021, 20:59:20
nice work
thanks! :)

Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: twgecko02 on Mon, 15 November 2021, 11:53:28
Quote from: Ranger_Trivette on Fri, 29 October 2021, 01:49:13
Quote from: Joaquox on Thu, 28 October 2021, 12:05:47
I don't like the visible seam.
Make it seamless, charge whatever you want and I'll buy it.
i've never thought about that. i like the idea. definitely possible.
this increase the amount of brass that have to be milled.
but may it worth a try.

let me work on it

Seconding this, I would also love a seamless solid brass board. I also like the idea of offering a raw finish, gives people the option to either patina it or mirror polish if they want to.
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60%
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Tue, 16 November 2021, 01:43:08
Quote from: twgecko02 on Mon, 15 November 2021, 11:53:28
Quote from: Ranger_Trivette on Fri, 29 October 2021, 01:49:13
Quote from: Joaquox on Thu, 28 October 2021, 12:05:47
I don't like the visible seam.
Make it seamless, charge whatever you want and I'll buy it.
i've never thought about that. i like the idea. definitely possible.
this increase the amount of brass that have to be milled.
but may it worth a try.

let me work on it

Seconding this, I would also love a seamless solid brass board. I also like the idea of offering a raw finish, gives people the option to either patina it or mirror polish if they want to.
raw finish is confirmed. it will also have a lower price.  :thumb:

the seamless design impact the design and the price very hard.
the upper part would be made by a 30mm thick brass block.
this keyboard will be proposed in a buy group with the seam.

i promise that in the first quarter of 2022 i'll be back with a new version without seam. :thumb:
if seamless design is a must have for you, i'm sorry but you have to wait few months more.
i'm already working on it while i'm waiting for samples of this one.
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60% [v2 UPDATE]
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Thu, 27 January 2022, 17:15:00
[UPDATE]

v2 arrived!  :eek:
blockers has been removed.
now quality is high enough  :-*

new photos  :p
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60% [v2 UPDATE]
Post by: trekt on Thu, 27 January 2022, 17:55:41
Do you have any pictures of the back of the board, connector side?
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60% [v2 UPDATE]
Post by: marici22 on Thu, 27 January 2022, 19:07:46
Protective coating damages easily and will end up being nasty looking if there's even a scratch. Plating it will change the color and tone of the material. So I would opt for PVD coating if I were to make it.

As much as I like the idea of raw brass, oxidation will inevitably make the material dull and even green in the long run.
As a jeweler(in the past, not anymore) I'd recommend against raw brass. Although it isn't worn on the body it still will oxidize from occasional contact with skin, unevenly at that, which wouldn't look pretty. After it turns green, it comes off on the skin too so..

If it was silver then I'd go raw. Speaking of silver, that would look and sound awesome abeit very expensive.
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60% [v2 UPDATE]
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Fri, 04 February 2022, 13:13:45
Quote from: trekt on Thu, 27 January 2022, 17:55:41
Do you have any pictures of the back of the board, connector side?
hi, photos updated!  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60% [v2 UPDATE]
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Sun, 06 March 2022, 11:07:20
HHKB photos added.
there was a gap between the frame and the keycaps, the problem has been solved  :thumb:

i'm now looking for a content creator to present the keyboard  :cool:
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60% [v2 UPDATE]
Post by: rossi94 on Sun, 20 March 2022, 10:06:19
I really like the spirit of the board. But I don't like the styling so much. I would have wanted the seam to be on the bottom of the top case, maybe no exposed screws. I really think the styling could be more elegant the chamfer on the top could be nice and rounded. I don't like the 3 daughterboard positions and I hate the font ... so much.

I think just having a center one makes more sense. They all add machining time and I don't like the blockers.

Did you think about nickel plating instead of silver? It would not oxidise or Argentium Silver? Would be nice to see the side profile =D
Or making versions from stainless?
Title: Re: [IC] SolidBrass 60% [v2 UPDATE]
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Sun, 20 March 2022, 16:00:14
Quote from: rossi94 on Sun, 20 March 2022, 10:06:19
I really like the spirit of the board. But I don't like the styling so much. I would have wanted the seam to be on the bottom of the top case, maybe no exposed screws. I really think the styling could be more elegant the chamfer on the top could be nice and rounded. I don't like the 3 daughterboard positions and I hate the font ... so much.

I think just having a center one makes more sense. They all add machining time and I don't like the blockers.
i'll made a new one without seam.
you are not the only one asking to remove seam. unfortunately is't a complete different keyboard. is not so easy  :)

Quote from: rossi94 on Sun, 20 March 2022, 10:06:19
Did you think about nickel plating instead of silver? It would not oxidise or Argentium Silver? Would be nice to see the side profile =D
Or making versions from stainless?
nichel plating should work too. less expensive for sure.
stainless is a difficult argument. i work in a field where oxidation is a real problem. i usually work with aisi316L, aisi316 and aisi304.
but machining these is very expensive. there is a high usury of the tools.
Aisi303 could be possible. not sure about the price. i'll ask to some supplier  ;)
i added few photo for you :)

(https://i.imgur.com/eBWYKPb.jpeg) (https://i.imgur.com/c8rHxjK.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/k5NLb2b.jpeg) (https://i.imgur.com/BWfpNlT.jpeg)