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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => DIY Discussions ARCHIVE => Topic started by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 12:54:05
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Unfortunately Blue Cherry keypads are not easy to find. IIRC Tim says the Scorpius ones use clones of the Blue Cherry and they have white stems. Don't know how they feel relative to a REAL one.
Well, the Scopius 32 does have the clones, at any rate. But the 32 is a replacement for the arrows, numpad, PgUp/PgDown, etc. It replaces the whole right section of the keyboard. The clones are fairly similar to the blues, just slightly stiffer.
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Could the desoldering of the diodes been so hard due to the PCB?
I recently tried swapping the spacebar switch in my MX11800 with the Pause key and both had wires in the holders to bypass PCB traces. Desoldering it wasn't that hard, it could be done in two passes.
Of course, I do practice a lot with a solderpump - I tend to harvest components from scrap electronics for some quick projects like the parkbd adapter.
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I have no idea what brand of solder pump I have, I got it in a box with some other miscellaneous soldering stuff. It looks pretty much the same as yours.
You could quickly test its vacuum by pressing your thumb on the tip and then releasing the plunger. Mine shoots up to 1/3 of the way and then steadily goes up until it loses its vacuum after about 3-4 seconds (i.e. almost no "pop" when you remove your thumb from the tip after some time).
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Could the desoldering of the diodes been so hard due to the PCB?
I recently tried swapping the spacebar switch in my MX11800 with the Pause key and both had wires in the holders to bypass PCB traces. Desoldering it wasn't that hard, it could be done in two passes.
Of course, I do practice a lot with a solderpump - I tend to harvest components from scrap electronics for some quick projects like the parkbd adapter.
FYI. The MX11800 has PCB-mounted switches, so you don't need to desolder the switches to change them (unless the switch is broken or you just wanted to practice). All you need to do is pop open the switch and swap the stem and the spring from another switch.
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Soldering just seemed easier to me as I haven't made a Cherry switch-opening utensil yet.
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ripster: thanks for the link to this thread.
i plan on moving the cherry browns from my broken mx11800 to a new cherry board with a trackball and cherry black keys. it's a brand new USB board, so i'm banking on the possibility that the cherry switches have changed at least enough over the last 10 years (just a guess, i think the mx11800 was a late 90s board) that popping the tops and replacing springs and tops might not be possible. i have zero experience soldering, but I do have an iron and the beginners amount of kit to go along with it... do you have any pics of what it takes to open up a cherry switch? I don't want to destroy any of the browns, but losing a couple of blacks wouldn't ruin my day :D
thanks!
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I think the mx11800 is a circa 2003 or so 'board.... and the switch internals didn't change, they're the same as they always were... The only thing I know that changed was case styles between the 3000 series of G80s...
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Can you buy cherry switches ala carte somewhere?
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In the US it's DataCal. See the main article.
The main article about cherry switches? You have to call them? There's no like ebay page with like 100 of them listed or something? lol
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Ah, found them on digikey. wow $87 plus shipping for 100 switches..ouch. Might as well buy a tenkeyless for that.
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which scorpius, and which compaq? Would they have blues?
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I've found out that the board I was going to use for my brown switches uses ML and not MX switches... i'm pretty bummed. anyone know if the pin placements and footprint of the switch would line up? in other words, can a simple switch swap be done? I have no idea why a non-laptop/notebook keyboard has ML switches, but it does. If they can't be swapped then I guess it's time to pony up and buy a board with clears or browns.
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Can anyone recommend a European-based distributor of Cherry switches? (the closer to Belgium the better :) )
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Digikey is supposed to have a UK outlet.
Another place I've seen them is on the Belgian RS Online (http://be02.rs-online.com/web/) website. Do not that you need to have a VAT-number at hand to order from them, seems they don't want to deal with regular customers.
Maybe you can ask a relative or friend with a company or shop to order from them.
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which scorpius, and which compaq? Would they have blues?
The Compaq rackmount keyboards have brown Cherry switches.
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Digikey is supposed to have a UK outlet.
Another place I've seen them is on the Belgian RS Online (http://be02.rs-online.com/web/) website. Do not that you need to have a VAT-number at hand to order from them, seems they don't want to deal with regular customers.
Maybe you can ask a relative or friend with a company or shop to order from them.
Thanks for the reply but I can't see any information about ordering from the UK on digikey, does anyone know this for sure? I might ask someone with a small shop to order it for me, but I'd prefer not to.
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my recent fascination with cherry blacks (who knew!) has made me want to explore all that cherry has to offer, but cheaply :D I've considered ordering 30 or so of each switch (clear and blue specifically since I haven't tried either) which wouldn't be ridiculously priced for testing each in my mx11900. Once I find the winner, the blues go into the num pad, I order enough for the rest of the board in my favorite color, and sell the rest here to ppl who want to try them all, too (including leftover blacks or browns if they don't make the cut :D )
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Hey ripster, thanks for this guide. I just finished swapping out the brown stems from an mx 11800 into my mx 11900, but kept the black springs. Contrary to your findings with this combination, I've found that the tactile bump of the brown stems is more pronounced with the stiffer springs than it is with the native brown springs. Stiffer and more tactile browns = my ideal cherry switch! I have found the switches to be a bit noisier since the switch (still VERY quiet, just the occasional spring squeak), and the space bar feels disproportionately weak... (gray stem). Are there any switches with springs that are stronger than blacks? To perfect this board the space bar needs to be much stiffer than whatever comes in the gray switches. I'll experiment with a black spring from Scroll Lock I suppose...
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Thanks for the reply but I can't see any information about ordering from the UK on digikey, does anyone know this for sure? I might ask someone with a small shop to order it for me, but I'd prefer not to.
http://www.digikey.co.uk/
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yeah ripster going to make an order on some blacks and blues, plan to mod my filco...
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Uhm... followed the Chinese tutorial about swapping the switches' internals I can get the contact leaf out of the housing and as I see, that tutorial covers only the stem and spring swapping, but this does not make my keyboard click. :<
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Well, yeah, but is there a way of complete switch transplantation without desoldering the switch itself? I do not want to void the warranty on my G80-1800.
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Uhm... followed the Chinese tutorial about swapping the switches' internals I can get the contact leaf out of the housing and as I see, that tutorial covers only the stem and spring swapping, but this does not make my keyboard click. :<
I don't get that. The contact leaf is part of the bottom housing and soldered to the PCB unless you desoldered the switch. If you get that out of the housing, then the switch is broken.
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I arrived to the same conclusion. The evil people of China made me think I was wrong.
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Eh? Weren't you following a tutorial for Alps keyswitches? You don't ever need to touch the switch leaf in a Cherry as that is the same for all their switches!
Cherry switches click due to a two-part plunger: when the bottom part of the plunger is pushed past the switch leaf, it suddenly pops down. This sudden movement makes the tactile feel, and the click comes when the bottom part stops dead in its tracks.
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Check it (http://park16.wakwak.com/%7Eex4/kb/tech_cherry_mx.htm).
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If I put switches that have diodes into a board that once had switches without diodes and it doesn't work, could that be the reason?
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I switched out a couple of the diodes for the straight pins and it didn't seem to do anything.
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Sorry if my wording was a little confusing...
In the beginning I had a keyboard with cherry black switches, PCB mounted. There was no diode in the switches, just a jumper pin.
I then bought a board with browns. These had diodes in each switch.
I put the browns on the board that used to have blacks. and most of the keys do not work.
I tried replacing some of the diodes in the browns with jumpers, but nothing changed (not sure if it matters which ones I replace).
If it means anything, I kept the black switches on the numpad side of the keyboard, and they all still work fine.
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lol, I think I'm up for the annoying challenge. But I need to make something to open up the switches without de-soldering them
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Would it be fine to split the current by putting a jumper on the back side of the board instead of removing the diode from each switch?
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Ok. I'm assuming it happened because of all the soldering and desoldering, but a lot of the rings that are attached to the pcb that border the holes are coming off. Now the pins cannot make contact with the traces. Did I just ruin the entire board, or is there an easy way to fix this?
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I put the browns on the board that used to have blacks. and most of the keys do not work.
I tried replacing some of the diodes in the browns with jumpers, but nothing changed (not sure if it matters which ones I replace).
If it means anything, I kept the black switches on the numpad side of the keyboard, and they all still work fine.
Diodes are what some people call "Current Valves", it only let the current travel in one direction, from Anode to Cathode. Sometimes it may be marked "A" for Anode [positive] and "K" for Cathode [negative] (not so strange as it's derived from the Greek word Kathodos)
Maybe you should check that all the Diodes are placed in the correct position. As you face the switch with the Diode nearest to you, the ring on the Diode should be on your right hand side (Anode + on left, Cathode - on right). If one switch have the Diode in the wrong position, it would break the current circuit so you need to check all.
Ok. I'm assuming it happened because of all the soldering and desoldering, but a lot of the rings that are attached to the pcb that border the holes are coming off. Now the pins cannot make contact with the traces. Did I just ruin the entire board, or is there an easy way to fix this?
Possibly, as there are no contact, the circuit is broken. I had this issue and the solution, I used a separate wire to connect the two points.
PS: Do not believe all that I have said, I may be from the Central Kingdom, I could be w*ong. :blabla:
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Well.....I don't know an easy way. Sounds like you've overheating the PCB and are losing the pads. You could start using jumper wire. Frankly, I'd just pull the switches, trash the keyboard and write it off to experience.
If you are doing a switch replacement with a switch with jumpers or diodes it's best to desolder first, take apart the switch by hand and reuse the original jumper or diode, and then put back together.
In other words replacing switches that have jumpers or diodes is a real Pain In The Ass. That's partly the message of the OP.
Yeah, I think this is what I'm going to do.
All this stuff happened when I was soldering a long copper wire across all the leads I needed to have jumpers on, and then, when all the leads were soldered to the wire, I would cut off what was not needed.
The first row worked like a charm, but on the second, when I started cutting the wire, the pads started to pop off.
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Am I correct in assuming you can't mix and match plate-mounted and PCB mounted switches? It'd be really awesome if it was an easy soldering job to swap my Filco's blues with clears from a Cherry board.
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I guess it's either that or spending $86 for 100 of them at Mouser...
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Hi, ripster, where do i find the cherry stabilizers ? i need 4 pairs of them , do you have some of them for sale ? or do you know about an online store ? any reference to search ? the size of the stabilizers i need are the same as the ones you showed on your article for the kinesis keypad.
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Sorry, anybody have the footprint or size specifications of the stabilizers ?
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nice guide" number 1 " helps when i was desolering my dell at 102 (101 to people on the other side of the pond) to clean the plate . I think i may have lifted several of the points but thats due to the fact that all the pins are bent over on the pcb not nice
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Indeed and i think its better to practice on a dell i can replace for £10 and not on my black widow that i am strongly considering putting reds in to be a red widow
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Thanks for the guide ripster, it helped me to swap the switches on my own numpad. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/g5TzF.jpg)