Author Topic: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED  (Read 7668 times)

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Offline moergo

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[IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« on: Fri, 10 September 2021, 03:14:54 »
We have designed a cylindrical keycap for Kailh Choc v1 keyswitches. It is intended to be translucent white but shine-through.

Images https://imgur.com/gallery/BPxJvde






UPDATE: The IC results prefer POM. As such we have gone ahead and selected to use POM. An order has now been placed for the mold

I have been working with the factory. The great news is that we have two options in making these translucent keycaps. We have the choice of translucent PBT (think HyperX Pudding but more opaque) or translucent POM (think Escape POM keycaps). The factory is now running validation tests on both materials.

However we will need to make a decision. I need your input to decide whether to go with translucent POM or translucent PBT. Please help by filling in the Interest check (https://forms.gle/z6f2i2EMBXY4B2AJ9)! Thanks.

Key features:
  • Designed for Kailh Choc v1 key switches (PG1350 series)
  • Designed for Choc spacing (18mm x 17mm)
  • Cylindrical profile
  • Injection molded POM
  • Translucent, designed to glow with under-key LED
  • Textured surface
  • Inspired by excellent MBK profile (hat tip to Matt u/mburger); specifically designed not to visually clash with MBK keycaps

I believe this will be the first POM keycap set made for Kailh Choc v1 switches.


Please note the attached photos are shot with SLA 3D-printed resin keycaps. As such, these photos are for illustration of the design only, and not necessarily representative of production keycaps. The production keycaps are expected to be:
  • Different in translucency
  • More textured

Interest check https://forms.gle/z6f2i2EMBXY4B2AJ9
Discord Channel and FAQ https://discord.gg/HG33NRhNR9


Expected timeline:
Now: Working with factory to validate translucent POM and translucent PBT
Very soon: Working with you all to decide whether to go with translucent POM or translucent PBT

September to October: Build injection mold
November: Pre-production samples to arrive for approval
If the sample quality meets our expectations, we will start the GB.


« Last Edit: Wed, 15 September 2021, 15:41:42 by moergo »

Offline Faehriss

  • Posts: 59
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 10 September 2021, 16:28:35 »
please yes POM oh my god take my money
church of the POM keeb

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 10 September 2021, 19:30:43 »
 :D That's a vote for POM methinks.

So far it is about 60:40 in favour of POM, but sample size is not yet big enough to swing decisively either way. Hopefully more people will make their preferences known.

Offline alas

  • Posts: 28
  • Location: United States
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 11 September 2021, 01:21:27 »
A note: POM wears at molds much faster than PBT. I personally prefer POM even so, and I think most people will agree.

Besides that, I recommend you prototype the design a little further. Most cylindrical profiles either have a narrower top than bottom or a slight angle to be more comfortable.
Both features are absent here. Cherry's ML keycaps are a good example of how best this can be done.
Signature Plastics also has two low profile keycap families designed for ML that have some dimensions you could use for reference.

TLDR; flat sides and zero degree angled tops make for a very unexceptional keycap.


edit: my bad. there's a slight angle on the sides. Frankly, not enough. Needs the inclined top as well.
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 September 2021, 01:27:24 by alas »

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 11 September 2021, 01:46:45 »
A note: POM wears at molds much faster than PBT. I personally prefer POM even so, and I think most people will agree.

Besides that, I recommend you prototype the design a little further. Most cylindrical profiles either have a narrower top than bottom or a slight angle to be more comfortable.
Both features are absent here. Cherry's ML keycaps are a good example of how best this can be done.
Signature Plastics also has two low profile keycap families designed for ML that have some dimensions you could use for reference.

TLDR; flat sides and zero degree angled tops make for a very unexceptional keycap.

edit: my bad. there's a slight angle on the sides. Frankly, not enough. Needs the inclined top as well.

We designed this keycap specifically for our keyboard, and in fact we have tested many different designs, including some that are taller. At the end, this design is chosen for a number of reasons:
1. It is the most comfortable design out of the many we have tested. Personally I think eyeballing a keycap design from photos and coming to a conclusion on the comfort level is difficult.
2. The keycap is designed specifically for maximizing low-profile. Generally it simply does not make sense to pay a premium price for choc switches to have tall keycaps. As such the height of the keycap is an absolutely critical constraint. With a low height, the constraints on the design is much more stringent. There is only so much sloping one can do.
3. This keycap is specifically designed to be visually compatible with MBK key profile. Many people uses MBK key profile for Choc keyboards. I like MBK too, however sometimes and some boards do need a cylindrical profile for comfort and ergonomics for certain keys. For example, I personally think for many keebs the thumb keys are more comfortable with a cylindrical profile than a dish profile.
4. As for inclined top, it is an option we have explored quite a bit. We tried quite a few inclination angles.  But at the end we decided that a cylinder with 0 degree profile is the most comfortable for our keyboard.

P.S. it definitely is not a flat side if you look carefully. The sides are composed of two (non 90-degrees) surfaces and a small curved transition area.

« Last Edit: Sat, 11 September 2021, 01:50:02 by OddField »

Offline mcmcmc

  • Posts: 112
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 11 September 2021, 01:48:12 »
thocc

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 11 September 2021, 03:05:50 »
The factory ran some material tests including translucency on the two proposed materials, and here are the two photos. The keycap used as comparison is the same SLA resin 3D-printed keycap.




If you would like to change your mind on POM/PBT preference, please edit your IC response. Thank you.
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 September 2021, 03:07:34 by OddField »

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 11 September 2021, 21:00:51 »
So far the voting is around 70:15 POM:PBT.  The rest is don't care.

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 15 September 2021, 02:09:41 »
The POM/PBT vote result is of follow:
65% POM
15% PBT
20% Either

Thank you very much for everyone’s help and interest. Based on the IC results, we have decided to go with POM.

I have officially placed the order for the POM mold earlier today.

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 15 September 2021, 02:17:01 »

I have added a FAQ to answer common questions from the IC at https://discord.gg/HG33NRhNR9 (UPDATE: Fixed link)


The IC form is active at https://forms.gle/JepjGpN1wPa4CBr2A
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 September 2021, 15:36:16 by OddField »

Offline kameron

  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Canada
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 15 September 2021, 07:17:33 »
pom would be great

Offline growler

  • Posts: 235
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - POM or PBT?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 15 September 2021, 07:18:38 »
Excited for this!

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

Don't just stare at it ...

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 15 September 2021, 15:43:44 »
UPDATED expected timeline:
September to October: Build injection mold. Order placed.
November: Pre-production samples to arrive for approval
If the sample quality meets our expectations, we will start the GB.

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 19 September 2021, 00:33:27 »
Just a quick update: looks like we have almost perfected the legend process on translucent POM. The first GB will be blank only, but it now opens the path for a future GB run with legends if we get enough interest.

Offline growler

  • Posts: 235
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 19 September 2021, 05:30:32 »
Super excited for that!

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

Don't just stare at it ...

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 25 September 2021, 20:09:00 »
UPDATE: Injection mold design approved. Injection mold now being built.

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 07 October 2021, 01:16:26 »
This is the keyboard for which the MCC Profile keycap was designed. We have just unveiled it and you can get to the [IC] by clicking on the photo. Hope you like how the keycap looks on a real keyboard.


Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 16 October 2021, 04:06:41 »
Good news! The plastic injection molding factory has finished the first cut of the injection mold.
It is looking good; but we will continue to refine the mold.

Here are some yummy white chocolates.

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 22 October 2021, 19:41:39 »
A close-up of the POM MCC keycap sample. It will soon be on the way to me!

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 30 October 2021, 20:59:14 »
We got our hands on the first POM keycap samples from the injection molder. They are looking great. The feel is really excellent. It is nicely smooth, and yet subtly textured. The POM keycaps are beautiful to type on.

We will be doing some adjustments still as this is just the first sample.

Hope you like them. Looking forward to your comments.

NOTE: the first GB will be blanks only

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 09 November 2021, 14:19:46 »
UPDATE: I finally got my hands on the T0 samples. They are gorgeous and way above my expectation, so the GB would certainly run once we got all the logistics sorted. The T0 samples are purposely slightly undersized so that adjustments can be made to the mold if there are problems. However IMO they are already ready. So the next step is to bring the mold to the intended size.

The typing feel is amazing. Smooth but subtly textured.

Update later.

Also see https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=114881.0 for photos

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 19 November 2021, 18:32:26 »
UPDATE: I have approved the changes needed for the mold to modify to final state. There should be another final round of T2 samples, but I don't anticipate any problem given the amazing quality of T0 samples.

We have selected top-tier vendors in US, EU and UK as partners for the GB. Will be announcing once final decisions made after these partner vendors review the T0 samples.

What do you think of the keycaps? Still interested?
(These translucent POM keycaps are really pretty with LED - but I just can't shoot a pic that does it justice)

Offline kajahtaa

  • Posts: 207
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 19 November 2021, 18:41:19 »
I'm down for 200.

who knows maybe this can ship before the never updated MBK Legend GB

 ;D

Offline growler

  • Posts: 235
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 20 November 2021, 07:05:33 »
Am game for sure

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

Don't just stare at it ...

Offline FootFingers

  • Posts: 56
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 20 November 2021, 07:20:07 »
Very interested - these look great

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 21 November 2021, 02:32:17 »
Great to hear the interest.

The keycap samples are on the way to a few keyboard vendors we will be working with for the GB. If they are okay with the quality and that there are interest we will go GB relatively soon :D

Re legends: how much interest is there for a legended set, and what is the set of legends you will look for? For reference this is what we have currently designed for Glove80 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=114881.msg3086876#msg3086876

Is the set acceptable?

« Last Edit: Sun, 21 November 2021, 02:34:06 by OddField »

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 21 November 2021, 03:10:11 »
BTW if anyone wants to vote/influence on what a legended set would include, please pop over to our Discord server. Thanks

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 03 December 2021, 20:06:51 »
Quick update: Blank MCC-Profile POM keycap GB/Pre-Sales will be coming very soon. We expect GB/Pre-Sales in start in 1 to 2 weeks.

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 12 December 2021, 15:10:50 »
The current plan is to start the MCC-Profile POM Keycap GB/Presales on 20 December, just in time for Christmas. Are you ready?


Offline UgloBuglo

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Sweden
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 15 December 2021, 02:28:47 »
Are you ready?
Yes!
I need these in my life!  :thumb:

Offline OddField

  • Posts: 87
Re: [IC] MCC Profile Choc Translucent Keycap - UPDATE: POM SELECTED
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 20 December 2021, 13:48:15 »
The Pre-Order is LIVE! Thank you again for all your help to making this real

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=115695.0