GH-122.2016 Case Options

[samwisekoi]

Thread to discuss case options for the GH-122.2016 mega-PCB from samwisekoi.

Approximate dimensions of the PCB are:

Overall PCB: 20" x 6.75"

Horizontal space between blocks: 0.330"

Vertical space between blocks: 0.75"

Top and Bottom margin: 0.375"

Left Margin: 0.50"

Right Margin: 0.52" (extra .02" required to make the PCB 20" wide.

Block size and space between blocks ARE final.  Margins and mounting holes are NOT set and/or final.

Draft PCB layout attached. This has to fit inside whatever case you use.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

Built GH-122 Models

Hak Foo


Data


Spaceman1200


samwisekoi


Did I miss anyone?

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Data]

Nice.  20 inches!  She's a beast!  )

Any reason you went with .50 padding on the sides and only .375 on the top & bottom?

[samwisekoi]

Nice.  20 inches!  She's a beast!  )

Any reason you went with .50 padding on the sides and only .375 on the top & bottom?

Space limitations in the Unicomp PC-122 case.  However, I am going to get some plastic cut to the right sizes to check fit.  I'd like to have the same margin all around the PCB (well, plus that damn 0.02").

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Data]

Oh I misunderstood.  I thought that was a case top shell in your drawing, but it's the PCB layout dimensions.  My mistake.

[AKmalamute]

 My feelings (on a plate) sit about like this: ANSI, because 'murica! (Inches & Pounds got us to the moon first, after all) and bent-plate for reasons of nostalgia. Outside of that, I think I want every position cut in my plate.

 So, does anyone make an MX-sized 'plug' in case I wanted to stuff the plate-hole with a blocker? I'm mostly expecting, realistically, to use anything I get from this project without the proper Unicomp case, and just have a bare board screwed to a piece of plywood.

 Since that's how I used the two phantoms I built. Minus the plywood.

Edit: oh, is this case-only discussion? I tend to mistrust acrylic by nature but the few I've actually picked up seemed alright. Any suggestions on where to get proper standoffs for a wooden 'sandwich' case?

 My feelings (on the case) is it should have one. Probably.

[samwisekoi]

I designed an MX 1.00 space blocker for PCB-mounting.  I had a couple of samples 3D-printed.  They came out fine.  They would cost about $4.50 each if I made them available on Shapeways.  (I also designed 1.25 and 2.00 MX and 1.0 B/S versions.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

I'm working on case options, and one of the key items is a plate.  Practical experience tells us that an 0.060" stainless steel plate is the Right Answer^TM, but also that the more identical plates that are made, the cheaper each one becomes.

So, I am trying to design one or two near-universal plates to keep costs down.  I do not think I can make a plate that supports both the ISO layout of the actual F-122 AND a full ANSI layout at the same time.  I do think I can make plates that are flexible within those two major variations.  Then an over-plate of Acrylic or other material could be used to block unused positions.  For example the arrow block could have a plate with a full 3x3 matrix, and the over-plates could have a full-size opening, an ANSI inverted-T opening, or an F-122 5-key cross opening.  That would mean different over-plates (or cases) but common stainless steel plates.

I hope to design plates that support full flat designs; two-bend "caseless" designs, three-bend "caseless" designs, and maybe Unicomp PC-122 adapter plates.

We'll see.

I think I posted a mock-up of a three-bend design, but basically it adds a horizontal top section for the upper bank of switches.  Here is another mock-up showing that feature more clearly.  (The wood end-plates are just a design concept.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[njbair]

This all sounds awesome, Ron, but how does a flat PCB work with a bent case as shown in the mock-up?

[AKmalamute]

how does a flat PCB work with a bent case[...]?

That's true ... I was visualizing a bare plate with one bend, myself. And bent the other way...? Then you could just run wires from the floating switches in the upper-function section, to the PCB below.

 As pictured, the PCB would need a cut-point to run column wires to reconnect the PCB, which won't work because IIRC the PCB is real heavy with controller connections across that whole swath of bare PCB.

[njbair]

how does a flat PCB work with a bent case[...]?

That's true ... I was visualizing a bare plate with one bend, myself. And bent the other way...? Then you could just run wires from the floating switches in the upper-function section, to the PCB below.

 As pictured, the PCB would need a cut-point to run column wires to reconnect the PCB, which won't work because IIRC the PCB is real heavy with controller connections across that whole swath of bare PCB.

Unless he's adding solder points for ribbon cable headers or something.

[samwisekoi]

Unless he's adding solder points for ribbon cable headers or something.

That is exactly what I am trying to do.  Failing so far, BTW.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

I've done some CAD work this weekend, and I am pretty sure (okay, I am in fact sure) that I can make a universal plate that will support all of the possible switch and stabilizer options.  Including the ISO Enter area.  That is good news.

I want to carefully draft a design accurate to 0.001" to be certain, and I will post a picture and get a cost estimate.

What this means for the project is that we can have a single plate to reduce the per-plate cost as much as possible.

Details to follow, including cost estimates, rendering(s), and how the same plate can be used for sandwich, caseless, and wood/metal cases.

More when I have more to tell.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[njbair]

I'm very interested to see how you'll accomplish all of this, particularly cross-compatibility with both sandwich and bent-metal style cases!

[samwisekoi]

Universal Plate Update

Attached is the sandwich or single-bend version of the Universal Plate for the GH-122.2016.  It supports all of the possible switch positions except the bonus LH arrow key.  In 0.060" T-304 stainless steel, the plate will cost right around $100 cut and deburred.  The blue line indicates the dimensions of the PCB.  The tiny tick marks on the RH and LH edges are small cuts to align the metal break if you want to bend the PCB.  The rectangular opening in the upper left corner is for the indicator LEDs.

The 10 mounting holes are 0.125"/3.175mm, and will allow #6 and 3mm screws or bolts to pass through.

Adding front and rear extensions to create a "bent-plate case" adds $5-10 to the plate.  We could add them to all of the plates, but then most people would have to cut them off, and there aren't really any economies of scale as long as we get a minimum of 5 plates per type.

The little brace-bars are only strictly needed for the Enter area, but they add strength to the plate and to any 1x switches used in a 1x/2x position.  I can easily remove them by popular demand in some or all of the locations.

I have not shopped around for best pricing, so if anyone has a supplier they want to get a quote from, just ask me and I'll send you a .DXF version for quoting.

FYI to everyone,

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Data]

Looks great man. I'd like to get a quote from my guy. Are we thinking 20 plates to go with 20 PCBs? Should I just PM you?

[jdcarpe]

I did this one up a little differently:




It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.

[SpAmRaY]

I did this one up a little differently:

Show Image

It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.

Why the desire of the larger sized keys on the left? Just something different?

I do like the number pad having full size '+' and enter.

This case you describe sounds interesting.

[njbair]

I did this one up a little differently:

Show Image

It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.

JD, you know I'm on board with this case concept, but I think we may need to break the top part out into its own piece. Reason being, it's going to be nearly impossible to perfectly align two layers of bent plates. Even if the math works out, there are too many variables--hole position, bend angle & radius, standoff height, all of which have their own tolerances.

[jdcarpe]

I did this one up a little differently:

Show Image

It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.

Why the desire of the larger sized keys on the left? Just something different?

I do like the number pad having full size '+' and enter.

This case you describe sounds interesting.

That's how I would design a "universal" plate. All those locations where you can have either one 2.00u key, or two 1.00u keys, can mount either.

Personally, I want to do a block of five 2.00u keys on the left, in the style of the Commodore 64.

[jdcarpe]

I did this one up a little differently:

Show Image

It's a switch plate only, to be bent at the top section. It would attach to a bent plate/case via standoffs, and "float" under the top of the case. The outer case would have cutouts large enough for the key blocks, and the outer case would fit into grooves in the wooden side plates. If I knew 3D CAD, I would draw it.

JD, you know I'm on board with this case concept, but I think we may need to break the top part out into its own piece. Reason being, it's going to be nearly impossible to perfectly align two layers of bent plates. Even if the math works out, there are too many variables--hole position, bend angle & radius, standoff height, all of which have their own tolerances.

Yeah, you're right. Too much could go wrong trying to mate two bent plates and a PCB. Better to make two separate switch plate pieces.

[AKmalamute]

I've talked to the shop I worked with for my SS-ergodox cases. They now have a $500 minimum for cash sales ... but given how much metal is needed for this project, I think it might be a good choice.

 Samwioski, I'm going to PM you with what all I asked for in my quote so the money can be put in perspective with what else you're looking at with this project.

update: it doesn't look like it'll hit their minimum. Dang; glad I got my cases done back when I did.

Edit again: If we're looking at that many plates, maybe we can work something out? I talked to my shop again, who said the 25 plates (five of which included three bends) fell just short of their minimum (implying we can get just a plate for noticeably less then $20/ea plus double-shipping). He was also afraid their laser machine couldn't cut the switch-top removal tabs, but now that he's said that, I reminded him I've done business with them before, and their machine did just fine at that level of detail.

[0100010]

How many plates / PCBs are we expecting to need?

[samwisekoi]

How many plates / PCBs are we expecting to need?

If all of the members who signed up actually pay up, I'll order 30 PCBs.

I think plates are still up in the air.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Hak Foo]

This sounds like it's about one QUARTER the price of the plates originally suggested.

It would still be dollars ahead if  the order bought 50 plates anf threw the unwanted ones away.  On a more serious note, I could see some people doubling up on the order to do a conventional plate and a bent-plate-case plate to get us over the $500 minimum order.

[0100010]

The more I think about it - I think PCBs is where the quantity / savings will come in.  Plates I would expect to be more unique.  For example - the plate for my desired GH122 layout would be like this :

[AKmalamute]

What gets me is you're all assuming costar stabs.

Ick.

[0100010]

What gets me is you're all assuming costar stabs.

Ick.

Was easier to draw is all. I've got both Cherry and Costar plate mount stabs available

[jdcarpe]

What gets me is you're all assuming costar stabs.

Ick.

Who is this 'all'? I always spec cherry pcb mount.

[Hak Foo]

I suspect that a lot of our dream layouts cluster around a few basic concepts.  There may even be a little bit of "I can swap A for B in order to get into a cheaper bulk-made plate.  I can see going "whichever is cheaper" when it comes to 1.25 or 1.5 modifiers, for example.

With some of the stuff samwisekoi showed, We can combine a lot of the split variations (ANSI vs. ISO, for example).  I can picture MAYBE four variations-- 1.25 and 1.5 modifiers, and 12 versus 15 function keys.

It may even be possible to make a single plate that cover them all with a "you have to snip A, B, and C yourself for 1.25 mods, and D and E for 1.5" sort of limitation.

[AKmalamute]

I got a quote from the shop around here. Looks like a full sandwich case for $60, bent-plate case for around $70, all plus shipping.

I've already emailed what details I was given to samwioski. I'm not right now, in a place where I can run a separate GB for these things, but if we're still floundering for plates in May, maybe I'll pick up the torch.

[jdcarpe]

I got a quote from the shop around here. Looks like a full sandwich case for $60, bent-plate case for around $70, all plus shipping.

I've already emailed what details I was given to samwioski. I'm not right now, in a place where I can run a separate GB for these things, but if we're still floundering for plates in May, maybe I'll pick up the torch.

I'm planning on running a buy for my Universal 104/108/87 plates in May. Maybe we can combine forces.

[iamtootallforthis]

I got a quote from the shop around here. Looks like a full sandwich case for $60, bent-plate case for around $70, all plus shipping.

I've already emailed what details I was given to samwioski. I'm not right now, in a place where I can run a separate GB for these things, but if we're still floundering for plates in May, maybe I'll pick up the torch.

I'm planning on running a buy for my Universal 104/108/87 plates in May. Maybe we can combine forces.

I would be in for a case for the 122!

[0100010]

The plate drawings here have 10 screw holes.  In the GH-122 PCB GB thread, looks like the PCB also has 10 holes, but not in the same positions in this thread // the GB thread also only makes mention of 8 screw holes.

Just want to be sure my plate drawing matches the PCB.

[samwisekoi]

The plate drawings here have 10 screw holes.  In the GH-122 PCB GB thread, looks like the PCB also has 10 holes, but not in the same positions in this thread // the GB thread also only makes mention of 8 screw holes.

Just want to be sure my plate drawing matches the PCB.

I am going to update the PCB drawing based on what I actually ordered.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Data]

Hi thread. 

What do people prefer for feet/bumpers?  I've used these in the past on my Phantom builds but they're not ideal.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9309k19/=122g25d

[Hak Foo]

A proposal for a cheap case concept:

Build a case like those cheap "DIY picture frame" kits, but with upgrades for durability.

Four pieces of stiff aluminium or steel channel, with a gap just thick enough to slide the PCB in.
Mitre cut 45 degree angles at each end.  A groove cut into the "inside" of ieach piece, and a few drilled-and-tapped holes  The four pieces fit around the PCB, and then you can bolt them together

Stuff like http://www.rpvisuals.com/rp_frames for example

The one issue I see is that you'd probably have to cut a hole for the micro-USB port... and I'm not sure if there will be enough clearance on all sides because the Teensy appears to be mounted at the very edge of the PCB.  The "top" component would have to be cut up quite a bit, which may compromise stiffness.

I'm thinking this will provide a lot of the rigidity of plate mount, without the cost and endless battles over layout involved with getting actual plates made.

[Data]

So... does anyone want to share their DXF/DWG files?  I have a fairly specific layout I'm looking for so I'll need to make some edits.  Currently thinking of a 3-layer sandwich design consisting of top "case" plate, middle "switch" plate, and bottom "case" plate.  I'd plug the layout into Swill's plate building and make my own DXF files but I'm not confident I can get the spacing right if I take that route.

[Hak Foo]

Another concept:

Take a block of wood.
Mill out depressions in the key blocks to clear the protrusions on the PCB bottom (switch tips, stabilizers, solder blobs)
Bolt PCB to the wood bloc

Dirt cheap, if you have a router.  Should provide good stiffness without the complexity of a plate.

I'm not sure the plate builder tools will work so well because I don't think the spaces between blocks are even fractional key units.

[Data]

Yeah, that was my concern with Swill's tool. I've been burned by that once before...  Never again.

[tjweir]

Another concept:

Take a block of wood.
Mill out depressions in the key blocks to clear the protrusions on the PCB bottom (switch tips, stabilizers, solder blobs)
Bolt PCB to the wood bloc

Dirt cheap, if you have a router.  Should provide good stiffness without the complexity of a plate.

I'm not sure the plate builder tools will work so well because I don't think the spaces between blocks are even fractional key units.

Oh, nice idea!

Going to try it.

[0100010]

The plate drawings here have 10 screw holes.  In the GH-122 PCB GB thread, looks like the PCB also has 10 holes, but not in the same positions in this thread // the GB thread also only makes mention of 8 screw holes.

Just want to be sure my plate drawing matches the PCB.

I am going to update the PCB drawing based on what I actually ordered.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

This ever happen (so I can layout a plate that matches the PCB)?

[samwisekoi]

I am going to update the PCB drawing based on what I actually ordered.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

This ever happen (so I can layout a plate that matches the PCB)?

Here you go. .PNG, .PDF, .DXF and .VSD if anyone cares to see this in Visio.

All of the mounting holes are 0.125 in diameter and drilled 0.125" from the edge.  Vertical gutters are 0.34", 0.33", and 0.33" from left to right.  The horizontal gutter is 0.75" wide/tall.  The Teensy is centered above Numpad_8, and the LEDs are centered above Numpad_Enter.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[0100010]

EDIT : NM, got it figured out.   Now I'm debating leaving it what I drew based on the switch cutouts at 19.4995 x 6.4998 versus making it the exact 19.5 x 6.5....

[Data]

Ron, does the Teensy mount above or below the PCB?

I assume below, but I wanted to be sure.

[Data]

Jesus, 19.50" PCB is enormous.   

Trying to see what a case top would look like for it...



Are the mounting holes in the PCB meant to be incorporated in the case design, or are they mainly part of the Unicomp case?

[0100010]

Ron, does the Teensy mount above or below the PCB?

I assume below, but I wanted to be sure.

He posted a pic in the GB thread, it is below.

[Data]

Ron, does the Teensy mount above or below the PCB?

I assume below, but I wanted to be sure.

He posted a pic in the GB thread, it is below.

Show Image

I should have looked there first.  Thanks.

[samwisekoi]

19.50" *IS* enormous.  I ended up with six unused keys even after thinking about it for months.  And with the memory capacity of the Teensy++, you could have multiple layers if you needed any MORE keys!  (Make your own APL keyboard using Unicode strings; program every possible Emoji so you can write in Special Snowflake Hieroglyphics; make each key type an entire word -- capitalized if the Shift key is pressed...)

Just wait until you solder diodes D1 through D160.  Now there is some fun.

The mounting holes are general-purpose.  I did toss an extra mounting hole above the function bank to be used if the PCB is cut.

Regarding the gutters: I would suggest including the 1/3" gaps or by the time you get to the LED cutouts they will have wandered to the left.  Where you put the extra hundredth is less important.  I accidentally made a face plate using .33, .33, .34 and I couldn't tell it was wrong. Some engineer at IBM divided one inch into three parts once, and those gutters are the result.  Meanwhile over at Cherry -- then a US company -- they thought in switch units and used 0.375" gaps.

During design, I measured all of my keyboards and I can tell you for sure that there is no standard gutter width.

One final note about the 19.50" length.  FYI, it is too long to use 1/8th (3mm) acrylic for top plates.  The resulting thin sections can actually crack under their own weight if the face plate is held from one end.  As me how I know...

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(Auto-typed by my GH36 Matrix Keypad.)

[Data]

For my case top I just took the areas you marked for switches (clusters of 0.75" squares) and offset 1/32" on all sides to make the cutout.  I know key caps rarely come close to a full 0.75" so that should be plenty of clearance for caps.

I'm thinking this case needs to be metal.  At least the plate, top, & bottom should be steel or aluminum.  I'm also considering carbon fiber because it looks to be roughly the same price as stainless.  My biggest question is: will a case this huge support itself without center-mounted supports/screws?  I didn't have a problem using only edge-mounted screws with my Phantom builds but this board is a lot bigger...