Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 593664 times)

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Offline hashbaz

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #100 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 17:56:38 »
There's also the Dox Keyboard, which is like a custom Poker.  Lots of good advice in the wiki though for any homebrew keyboard project.

Offline Gfresh404

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« Reply #101 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 21:40:31 »
I'd definitely be down for one but not for $400. Maybe around $200 though

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #102 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 01:26:05 »
Quote from: Gfresh404;468600
I'd definitely be down for one but not for $400. Maybe around $200 though

Added to the list.

Wow, we're getting a lot of interest!
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Offline litster

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« Reply #103 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 02:42:17 »
I think a lot of us have passed the phase of buying new tenkeyless keyboards and used IBM Model Ms.  We are in the next phase, the phase which you build your own keyboards!

Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #104 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 03:05:18 »
Just so we're clear, the standard will be Colemak with control to the LEFT of the A!??  OMFG!  That's my layout!  This is MY keyboard!  So epic!

I'm LITERALLY in keyboard nirvana right now!

The only thing I might want to change is get rid of the Alt-Gr, put the FN there and place the Enter key where the FN was.

I am DOWN with this $300 or $400 whatever!

. . . don't know whether I want to have browns or clears though.  I really need to try out some clears because I have no idea whether I'd like them or not.

Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #105 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 06:20:33 »
Quote from: inaneframe;468726
. . . don't know whether I want to have browns or clears though.  I really need to try out some clears because I have no idea whether I'd like them or not.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23914-Cherry-Switch-Tester-Holiday-Tour-2011!

Offline Kindari

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« Reply #106 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 08:02:11 »
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34671[/ATTACH]
Hey Dox-

Is this attached image a possible alternative layout? I mean - would that work, or does something prevent that? Or is it possible to position the part above the keys vertically below them, thus creating a foot-bar type thing? I'm not really asking for this as much as trying to better understand the possibilities for keyboard designs.

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #107 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 09:09:31 »
The only thing you need worry about is fitting all the required bits on the PCB.  So, on the right hand one the controller could live in that new location that has no keys without issue.  The question is whether the inter-board connections can fit in that tiny space left at the top.
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Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #108 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 10:26:41 »
Quote from: inaneframe;468726
Just so we're clear, the standard will be Colemak with control to the LEFT of the A!??  OMFG!  That's my layout!  This is MY keyboard!  So epic!

I'm LITERALLY in keyboard nirvana right now!

The only thing I might want to change is get rid of the Alt-Gr, put the FN there and place the Enter key where the FN was.

I am DOWN with this $300 or $400 whatever!

. . . don't know whether I want to have browns or clears though.  I really need to try out some clears because I have no idea whether I'd like them or not.
I would say the "standard" is 100% programmable for this one. You should be able to set yours up that way, yes. I plan to have a similar thing, but with Dvorak.

Also, keycaps would probably be up to you.
I added you to the list!
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #109 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 10:34:19 »
Who's running this project, Dox or dorkvader? I'm confused.
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Offline funkymeeba

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« Reply #110 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 11:20:17 »
You know, I'm not sure why I didn't look at this sooner. It looks pretty sweet. Consider me game if the cost doesn't exceed $350 by much. If MX clears are an option that would be quite swell. If Colemak is the standard, it would be great if I could get caps to fit QWERTY, but I'm sure that's something that I can do even outside of this project.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #111 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 12:21:07 »
Quote from: funkymeeba;468897
You know, I'm not sure why I didn't look at this sooner. It looks pretty sweet. Consider me game if the cost doesn't exceed $350 by much. If MX clears are an option that would be quite swell. If Colemak is the standard, it would be great if I could get caps to fit QWERTY, but I'm sure that's something that I can do even outside of this project.

An option:
Custom key caps from WASD Keyboards :)
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Offline funkymeeba

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« Reply #112 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 12:27:40 »
That is a good thought, but I think that if I'm going to get a really fancy keyboard such as this, I might as well go the full nine with some PBT caps.
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17:15 < vun> these are the healthiest crisps I've ever come across
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Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #113 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 17:20:47 »
Oh. . . oh. . . when can production start?  I'm thinking about this all the time.  Not good during finals week!
« Last Edit: Mon, 12 December 2011, 17:30:17 by inaneframe »

Offline Dox

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« Reply #114 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 17:42:55 »
I still have a lot of work to do on this. I will probably have a few days between Christmas and the new year to complete the drawings. I'm currently learning a lot about electronics, I plan on using some multiplexer/demultiplexer  between the 2 halves to have a reasonable amount of wire between the boards.
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Offline funkymeeba

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« Reply #115 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 17:57:03 »
I'm definitely feeling no rush here. Heck, I have plenty of stuff I have to drop money on with the holiday rush and also moving into a new place. I'll definitely put some thought into what stuff I think might be neat for this in the next few days. I doubt there will be much, it already looks to be pretty slick.
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Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #116 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 18:11:31 »
If I didn't have the money, I'd start a garage sale, EVERYTHING MUST GO!

Dox, you know you are the man, right?

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #117 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 19:33:48 »
Quote from: Kindari;468780
(Attachment Link) 34671[/ATTACH]
Hey Dox-

Is this attached image a possible alternative layout? I mean - would that work, or does something prevent that? Or is it possible to position the part above the keys vertically below them, thus creating a foot-bar type thing? I'm not really asking for this as much as trying to better understand the possibilities for keyboard designs.


I think a better idea is to tuck the controller above the thumb area, since it looks like Dox will add more thumb keys.

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #118 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 22:52:58 »
Quote from: sordna;468848
Who's running this project, Dox or dorkvader? I'm confused.

Heh, this is 100% Dox's game, I'm just trying to keep track of interest, so it's easier to figure out who's in when the time comes. I also plan to PM everyone on the list once some things are settled.

Dox: multiplexing would be great, that way we could keep it simple with the inter-board connectors. I'm only somewhat familiar with I2S, but I know there are other methods for chip-to-chip communication.

There's even a chance you could make the halves somewhat symmetrical, with a master/slave chip, so you can plug in either half into the computer. The "master" would be the one attached to USB of course. Just an idea. There isn't really a benefit to this, but you would have the option to do away with the board connections, and just connect each half to the computer, or connect one half (either one) to the computer, and plug the slave board in, and go. I imagine this could be done with some sort of diode arrangement, or something. (you could just wire a diode to the power on one board, so that it goes hot if it's plugged in, if the pin is hot, automatically set controller to "slave" mode. I imagine this can also be done with some sort of multiplexing arrangement or whatever you'd have to get the chips talking to eachother.)

Funkymeeba, I've added you to the "unofficial list".

Laffindude: there were some mockups earlier on with more thumb buttons, did you get a look at them?
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Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #119 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 23:00:34 »
Quote from: Dox;463021
Could you indicate the location of the keys that you would like to add on my render, this sounds interesting.
I've been working a lot recently and I didn't had much time to put on this but I will continue as soon as I can. I want this to happen.


First thing's first, I am very literally a disinterested party in terms of the thumb buttons myself.  That is to say I like the way it is now just perfectly fine.  If there were a couple extra buttons I would not mind but the way it is now is awesome as well, I don't need any additional ones as when I was trying out a kinesis recently, I never actually used the other keys, just the two long ones.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34825[/ATTACH]

Okay, so there is A and B, here's another point where I don't care and either would be fine with me.

On A, the thumb would rest on the second long key from the left.  As the thumb extends it has better dexterity, I have noticed, and when the thumb distends and is tucked in closer to the palm of the hand it has less dexterity.  With the two buttons further away, the thumb is better able to distinguish and select different keys.

B is pretty self-explicative.  It is merely the way it is now with two buttons on the far end, looks a lot like the newer designs you did.

Anyway, sorry for the crap gimping.
« Last Edit: Mon, 12 December 2011, 23:11:33 by inaneframe »

Offline Dox

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« Reply #120 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 16:35:20 »
I will update the OP with the latest design to avoid confusion. Currently, it's like a kinesis.
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Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #121 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:10:17 »
Yeah, see, that is awesome!  I was just paying attention to what input nirvana was saying about having only two extra keys.  I only posted that picture because layout A in it was just about the only idea I had to share and offer up for criticism.  As it is, I'm probably going to up my stake in this to three keyboards.

All those buttons, hardly know what to do with myself!

Offline sordna

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« Reply #122 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:17:39 »
Dox, I like the new thumb keys, but I don't really like the number row. The proper alignment is: 5 over T and 6 over Y. Virtually all matrix keyboards are like this. You can easily achieve the proper alignment by moving -_ and =+ either in the two inner colums (where the 7 is in your new picture) or in the outer columns (as the longer sized keys). The latter approach is what Kinesis does since it doesn't have the extra inner columns you have (which I love by the way).
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Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Dox

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« Reply #123 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:25:28 »
Thanks, I will change the lettering on my next renders. The controller will be programmable anyway so you could use any layout you want!
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline CeeSA

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« Reply #124 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 03:46:27 »
what's about the trackpoint idea? do you think about it?

Offline sordna

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« Reply #125 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 04:04:24 »
+1 for trackpoint ... would be awesome, especially since the mini-guru isn't happening !
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #126 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 04:34:10 »
Oh and a soda fountain built-in!  Spikes!  We need spikes so that we can decimate our enemy if they ever attack us entrenched in our offices!

Oh, oh and you should build-in windshield wiper units so it can clean itself and your monitor.  Maybe a vacuum unit built into the bottom of it so it can keep a tidy desktop. . . better make it a wet/dry vac to handle any wayward bodily fluids. . . speaking of which, have you considered attaching a robotic arm that it could like you know reach. . . umm nevermind :tape2:

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #127 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 09:48:35 »
Quote from: inaneframe;470384
Oh and a soda fountain built-in!  Spikes!  We need spikes so that we can decimate our enemy if they ever attack us entrenched in our offices!

Oh, oh and you should build-in windshield wiper units so it can clean itself and your monitor.  Maybe a vacuum unit built into the bottom of it so it can keep a tidy desktop. . . better make it a wet/dry vac to handle any wayward bodily fluids. . . speaking of which, have you considered attaching a robotic arm that it could like you know reach. . . umm nevermind :tape2:
Almost exactly the same thing happened in Plato's Republic
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Offline mharrison

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« Reply #128 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:53:00 »
Trackpoint would be lovely ;) As I type on an EnduraPro. My only other wish is Function keys, but I doubt that would happen. Depending on the price I might be up for this keyboard though. It's the only mechanical, matrix, split I can see....

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #129 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 09:15:36 »
As a design consideration: would there be a TP in the left? right? both? will there be one in a center module that both halves plug into? Is it still between the keys? I'm just not seeing how this works out.
IBM nut and bolt mod guide Keyboard Photos "I sort of want to have 1/4 of a grand staircase connecting two halves of a split level"
I am happy to answer honest PMs from concerned parties

Offline funkymeeba

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« Reply #130 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 09:27:20 »
If it were up to me, I would put a trackpoint on the right. I end up using my left hand for modifiers almost all of the time, so it seems fair to keep using right for cursor stuff.
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Offline sordna

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« Reply #131 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 09:57:05 »
Yup, on the right, between the YUHJ keys, per Input Nirvana's research on the topic ...
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #132 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 10:57:37 »
Quote from: dorkvader;470503
Almost exactly the same thing happened in Plato's Republic


I actually laughed out loud. . . polisci geek here.  Not to say the Republic isn't read by everyone because it is, it just takes a geek to literally laugh out loud at a lame joke about it.

Quote from: sordna;471350
Yup, on the right, between the YUHJ keys, per Input Nirvana's research on the topic ...


Chemical release in my brain at this.

I need to point out here that this will put the keyboard back up above 400.

I think dox should just keep it simple:

A) so it gets done

&

B) we don't lose half of the people who are interested now
         (25% from additional cost and 25% from those who do not like trackpoints)
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 December 2011, 11:02:16 by inaneframe »

Offline sordna

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« Reply #133 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 11:40:20 »
At least we should think about it as a future option, or make provisions in the case/PCB or something for folks that want it. I honestly think a trackpoint will attract more folks that it will drive away. Those that don't like it can always remove the tip anyway. The non-launch of the trackpointed mini-guru was the top-voted disappointment (ping award) on deskthority... got twice more votes than the Truly Ergonomic delay.
My only concern about the trackpoint is that it could prove too difficult and derail the project. I'll leave the decision to Dox, we are just sharing some ideas/suggestions here.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Ascaii

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« Reply #134 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 12:07:51 »
xnay on the trackpoint for me... I will be using a Filco touchpad between the halves, trackpoint would kill it for me.
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Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #135 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 13:51:47 »
You could have space on the PCB/firmware for that option, and the people who don't want a trackpoint can just not install it.

Innerframe: Hah, I'm glad you got it! I read it in philosophy class. It also gets discussed frequently in philosophy club
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Offline inaneframe

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« Reply #136 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 18:15:56 »
Position placed on the PCB for soldering it in:  YES!!  I will install one this way if given the option!

Built-in from get-go:  I'm not sure of the wisdom in this.

If we just have the position wired into the PCB for it then we could have the space for it on BOTH sides so it could accommodate both regs and southies.

This is a great idea if room can be made for it.  Thumb keys could be set up to act as mouse buttons etc.

Then we will need to have four custom keys in that region made.  Another cost layer for the individuals who choose to have it.

This cost should not be put off on those who do not want trackpoints as it will lower the already minority appeal drastically.  It is already a niche piece and we can only do harm by too much personalization beyond what is already there.


Put me down for 3!

I will sell my 30" monitor if I have to.  Or sell my car. . . whichever comes first.  :)

Offline funkymeeba

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« Reply #137 on: Thu, 15 December 2011, 19:36:50 »
I don't think it would cost extra for getting the keys done. It seems like it would be an easy enough home mod. Frankly I don't really require a trackpoint, but I think it would be pretty neat. Making it optional is fine. I am fine either way.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #138 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 16:22:50 »
Quote from: inaneframe;468726
I'm LITERALLY in keyboard nirvana right now!

Input nirvana????
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #139 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 17:22:33 »
Hey Dox, I have two items to nag you about:

1)
I've spent a tremendous amount of time contemplating/using/experimenting with Kinesis key placement/add/delete/moves. I believe the most recent render is the best there can be WITHOUT moving fingers from the home row. This is almost the same as what I came up with. (my pic is pretty bad, and the added keys are covering some existing keys, but it's a mock up). It's perfectly ok to have keys that you need to move off home row to hit, but I decided I will not address that until I have made every effort to keep keys within the target range of fingers/thumbs and staying on home row.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 35228[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 35229[/ATTACH]

These are some of my thoughts on the right hand keywell (matching your right hand render):

-The white key extreme lower right under the shift (pinky activated) was to possibly be a Fn key and is replicated on the left keywell. (I've added these 2 keys to my mod, it's quite excellent).
-The white key under the arrow key, next to the right of the space key, if a little lower could be Sordnas palm activated shift key (maybe use a long key?).
-The white key to the left lower side of thumb cluster, allows activation without leaving home row.
-The long white keys to the left of "HN" and "6Y" I was undecided if they could be square (2 square keys to the left of "Y" and "H") or the long keys you see for easier touch-type targets.

The reasons I have been so hell-bent on increasing the number of keys, and keeping them within touch-type range, was to be able to provide dual modifiers (per Sordna, Architect). These adds allow 5 keys per side. With what I have here, Command/Windows, CTRL, ALT/OPT, shift, Fn, can be used by either hand, and still have the ability to have dual enters or whatever. And still have the option of a couple keys that take your fingers off home row, if you really want to do that :)

2)
Regarding the integrated trackpoint (or pointing device). I strongly suggest that you don't feel you can't move forward without it, but don't dare move forward unless you have made provisions for it. Again, I've spent so much time on this. Ask yourself this one question: Why am I making this? A: Ergonomics. What's more un-ergonomic than taking your hand off home row and off the keyboard?. Easy options for pointing devices are trackpoint, multi-direction scrollwheel, and thumb scrollball (see Alphagrip AG-5, I'm a huge fan of these things).

Random note. You know this design is screaming to be mounted on chair arms, or similar. What about a pointing device option then? What about tenting this keyboard...even worse, you'd have to "un-tent" your wrist to use a mouse or whatever, then "re-tent". How stone age and RSI prone is that?
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline inaneframe

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #140 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 18:13:05 »
Quote from: input nirvana;472390
Input nirvana????


You know it's funny because I was thinking about your username as I typed that yes.

I'm leaving your next post alone!  It's got some good ideas, that's all I will say.

Offline Dox

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #141 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 18:57:05 »
Thanks again for your feedback, I'll comment your points in your quote.
Quote from: input nirvana;472442
Hey Dox, I have two items to nag you about:

1)
I've spent a tremendous amount of time contemplating/using/experimenting with Kinesis key placement/add/delete/moves. I believe the most recent render is the best there can be WITHOUT moving fingers from the home row. This is almost the same as what I came up with. (my pic is pretty bad, and the added keys are covering some existing keys, but it's a mock up). It's perfectly ok to have keys that you need to move off home row to hit, but I decided I will not address that until I have made every effort to keep keys within the target range of fingers/thumbs and staying on home row.

(Attachment Link) 35228[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 35229[/ATTACH]

These are some of my thoughts on the right hand keywell (matching your right hand render):

-The white key extreme lower right under the shift (pinky activated) was to possibly be a Fn key and is replicated on the left keywell. (I've added these 2 keys to my mod, it's quite excellent).
-The white key under the arrow key, next to the right of the space key, if a little lower could be Sordnas palm activated shift key (maybe use a long key?).
 Palm key could be interesting.
-The white key to the left lower side of thumb cluster, allows activation without leaving home row.
  I'll see what I can do for this but as a vim user, I got to say that there is already enough keys for my intended layout.
-The long white keys to the left of "HN" and "6Y" I was undecided if they could be square (2 square keys to the left of "Y" and "H") or the long keys you see for easier touch-type targets.
 Yeah I was thinking that those long keys being further inside could be easier to hit.

The reasons I have been so hell-bent on increasing the number of keys, and keeping them within touch-type range, was to be able to provide dual modifiers (per Sordna, Architect). These adds allow 5 keys per side. With what I have here, Command/Windows, CTRL, ALT/OPT, shift, Fn, can be used by either hand, and still have the ability to have dual enters or whatever. And still have the option of a couple keys that take your fingers off home row, if you really want to do that :)
Dual modifiers is possible in with the current render for me but I understand that some people may need some extra keys and I will consider it.

2)
Regarding the integrated trackpoint (or pointing device). I strongly suggest that you don't feel you can't move forward without it, but don't dare move forward unless you have made provisions for it. Again, I've spent so much time on this. Ask yourself this one question: Why am I making this? A: Ergonomics. What's more un-ergonomic than taking your hand off home row and off the keyboard?. Easy options for pointing devices are trackpoint, multi-direction scrollwheel, and thumb scrollball (see Alphagrip AG-5, I'm a huge fan of these things).

I don't think I said it before but I would LOVE to have an integrated trackpoint. The only problem that I see is...... Where can you buy these things?? I think all the mods with trackpoint I've seen were from some hacked IBM rubber dome keyboards. I have to have something "standard" to be able to implement it correctly. I currently don't even own a trackpoint. If somebody have a source for these we need your help. Otherwise, the best I can do is the place a hole in the plate and PCB and put some traces on the PCB to connect one and leave the choice to the user. You will however always have the options to use mouse keys on a fn (or primary) layer.

Random note. You know this design is screaming to be mounted on chair arms, or similar. What about a pointing device option then? What about tenting this keyboard...even worse, you'd have to "un-tent" your wrist to use a mouse or whatever, then "re-tent". How stone age and RSI prone is that?
I got a few mounting ideas that I want to try and chair mounted is one of them. I know... I know... integrated pointing device....
Keep your input coming!
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline sordna

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #142 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 19:20:26 »
Hehe, I N at his finest. Just one note on the palm key: Where you have it on your mock up, it's actually an extra (and welcome!) thumb key.
By palm key, I mean a key that will be lower than the thumb cluster, like this:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 35247[/ATTACH]

But the location you put your key, is actually a welcome extra thumbcluster key, especially if you make it parallel with the thumb keys and align it so it lines up with the bottom edge of the space.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #143 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 23:40:30 »
Quote from: sordna;472518
Hehe, I N at his finest. Just one note on the palm key: Where you have it on your mock up, it's actually an extra (and welcome!) thumb key.
By palm key, I mean a key that will be lower than the thumb cluster, like this:

(Attachment Link) 35247[/ATTACH]

But the location you put your key, is actually a welcome extra thumbcluster key, especially if you make it parallel with the thumb keys and align it so it lines up with the bottom edge of the space.

The pic is/was from a group of photos with keys laid down 'just to visualize'. Others are shown in the Split Kinesis mod article. I took lots of crappy pics just to document and refer back to. I never had a formal 'Palm key' idea, although that one key has been in question a number of times for functionality and placement. If such a "palm key" were to exist, perhaps it's as easy as having it ride "high" so the palm doesn't have to lay completely flat and maybe should be a larger key cap? It may be a crazy idea, but the functionality could be awesome. Implementation is everything for something like this, and there may be no good way to incorporate it well, but it's certainly worth some effort. Anyones thoughts? If you have experience with a Kinesis that would help :)

This Aikon guys added thumb keys (3 per cluster)
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 35265[/ATTACH]
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Offline Parak

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #144 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 11:29:12 »
As far as a trackpoint is concerned, I think it'd be a nightmare trying to get them via any other means aside from old hardware. Alps has something of an alternative (here), but at best it'd be only usable in the thumb location. I don't think this should be a showstopper regardless, unless you personally have it as a requirement of course :)

Have you considered a resistive LCD? It could be used for reprogramming on the fly, or data interaction from the PC. They are relatively cheap nowadays, and I've been considering them for my own custom project for a while. They do tend to need a beefier controller with more pins, and obviously much more code.

Offline inaneframe

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #145 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 13:54:27 »
A deal could easily be struck with Unicomp for trackpoints and relatively cheap too.  You could probably even email them and order one individually.

If an LCD gets added, I'm out.

Offline Dox

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #146 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 14:16:14 »
I will send an email to unicomp to see what they can do. The trackpoint is not an absolute requirement but it would be a great feature.
No LCD.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline Input Nirvana

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #147 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 20:03:28 »
Quote from: Dox;472850
I will send an email to unicomp to see what they can do. The trackpoint is not an absolute requirement but it would be a great feature.
No LCD.

I did not have luck with this. I spoke with Bob. Maybe you can do better.
No, the trackpoint is not an absolute requirement, but your exploring all avenues is. You have a great project with a lot of insight. Don't take a last minute short-cut, it's too valuable. Information is power. I'll help you if I can. You can always PM me.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline inaneframe

  • Posts: 287
  • Location: Las Vegas, NV
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #148 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 02:37:29 »
Quote from: input nirvana;472983
I did not have luck with this. I spoke with Bob. Maybe you can do better.
No, the trackpoint is not an absolute requirement, but your exploring all avenues is. You have a great project with a lot of insight. Don't take a last minute short-cut, it's too valuable. Information is power. I'll help you if I can. You can always PM me.


So that's a no on individual sales then?

Offline Input Nirvana

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #149 on: Sun, 18 December 2011, 03:47:47 »
I had originally called and spoke to Bob about using the trackpoint, and he said it probably couldn't be done. In retrospect, I think he misunderstood me, since the trackpoint that many of us have been robbing from KPD8923 keyboards is an unscrew-plug-n-play affair. I'm rusty on the exact discussion at this point (almost 2 years ago) as far as purchasing. I believe what needs to happen right now is contact should be made and info on what particular model of trackpoint to possibly be used needs to be fleshed out. Usability is a question, supplying is a question, pricing is a question.

I can be very unhelpful if given the chance.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~