Home made plates

[swill]

Hey all. I am looking for suggestions for ways/materials for making home made plates.

I would probably be using acrylic or aluminium due to it being relatively easy to work with.

What has me stumped is how to cut the switch opening squares.

I don't really want to invest in getting them custom made for me because it will cost to much because I want to try a few different layouts.

Square drill bit? Hot wire cutting acrylic? Dremel? 

What would you suggest?  Thx. 

[swill]

Sorry for the mess. Tapatalk kept saying that it failed to connect to server so I kept trying to reset my connection and trying different connections.  It turns out that they all actually posted even though they all errored.  I locked all the others so we only have one open thread for this.

[SpAmRaY]

It isn't tapatalk its the forum.

[Charger]

although you can theoretically drill a square hole it is not something most people are set up to do at home. Since you are trying to do it at home there are really only a few practical ways of making a home made plate with out the use of cnc or laser cutters. First you can drill a hole and use that to put a saw blade through the hole and rough cut the hole then finish with files to the correct shape or you can just drill a bunch of holes and use files to clean the hole out to the correct size and shape.

There are a few ways that maybe usable to cut the holes with a saw first being hand saws like jewelers saw/ fret saw, copping saw or for a power tool option a scroll saw may be usable for this as well or you maybe able to use a dremel with a cut off disk

I myself picked the slow way of using a jewelers saw and files when i made my numpad and cut the holes by hand slowly in steel

[jacobolus]

I recommend either a CNC mill, a laser cutter, or a waterjet cutter, depending on the material you’re working with. Trying to cut it all by hand is possible but a huge pain in the ass.

[Melvang]

The fastest and easiest method at home would be with a tool called a broach.  You will want 14mm.  They are expensive and the price goes up quick over 1/2".  They are accurate though.

I will expand on this later tonight when I am off mobile.

[Melvang]

If you are doing this just to test out layouts I would see if you could find a 14mm punch and use that into some posterboard.  Granted it may not be sturdy enough to actually type for a significant period of time.  granted you could probably use a cardboard box for that.  If you want to type for any period of time then you will want a plate. 

This video is for a keyway broach but the use is the same.  You just have a round hole to start with and not a shaft. 

[swill]

If you are doing this just to test out layouts I would see if you could find a 14mm punch and use that into some posterboard.  Granted it may not be sturdy enough to actually type for a significant period of time.  granted you could probably use a cardboard box for that.  If you want to type for any period of time then you will want a plate. 

This video is for a keyway broach but the use is the same.  You just have a round hole to start with and not a shaft.

I was assuming a broach was going to be the best option. Unfortunately I don't have a press. I do have a drill press with a two directional clamping table (previously owned by a friend of mine who was an aircraft mechanic).

I was looking into a square drill bit because it seems like the most realistic (time wise) approach.

I might try using 1/8" acrylic and scoring it and then using a coping saw.

Does anyone have an idea what a one off plate would cost to get it made at a metal shop?  What's the cheapest approach if I get it professionally done? CNC, laser cutting, etc...  I am sure I can design the plates in cad.

[Melvang]

You could probably get 6 or 7 plates made for the cost of a broach.  I would go with laser or waterjet acrylic for testing purposes.  Chances are it will be easiest to find someone to waterjet acrylic due to the gasses that it gives off when laser cutting it.  Plus waterjet doesn't have the tendancy to warp acrylic.  Though I can't really recommend anywhere.  Mkawa might be able to help you in this dept as well.  Or hit up the beast.

[strict]

I was assuming a broach was going to be the best option. Unfortunately I don't have a press. I do have a drill press with a two directional clamping table (previously owned by a friend of mine who was an aircraft mechanic).

I was looking into a square drill bit because it seems like the most realistic (time wise) approach.

I might try using 1/8" acrylic and scoring it and then using a coping saw.

Does anyone have an idea what a one off plate would cost to get it made at a metal shop?  What's the cheapest approach if I get it professionally done? CNC, laser cutting, etc...  I am sure I can design the plates in cad.

The shop that I've used for both rounds of stainless steel plates quoted me $100 for a one off plate of stainless and $90 for a one off aluminum plate.

[swill]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I can buy a 14mm broach for $300, so I guess that gives me an idea of what I would have to invest to make my own correctly.

[Melvang]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I can buy a 14mm broach for $300, so I guess that gives me an idea of what I would have to invest to make my own correctly.

I would highly suggest using some sort of press for using a broach.  They are made of high speed steel at the lightest duty.  It is very strong, hard, and holds an edge good enough to cut stainless steel for a good amount of time providing proper feeds and speeds for machining.  But it is very brittle.  Any side load or twisting in the wrong direction and the snap surprisingly easy. 

IE you will not drill out a broken HSS tap unless you have a solid cobalt drill bit or better.  For around 1/4" sizes they are almost 30USD each.  Shipping on an arbor press is going to be expensive as well due to the weight of cast iron.

[swill]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I can buy a 14mm broach for $300, so I guess that gives me an idea of what I would have to invest to make my own correctly.

I would highly suggest using some sort of press for using a broach.  They are made of high speed steel at the lightest duty.  It is very strong, hard, and holds an edge good enough to cut stainless steel for a good amount of time providing proper feeds and speeds for machining.  But it is very brittle.  Any side load or twisting in the wrong direction and the snap surprisingly easy. 

IE you will not drill out a broken HSS tap unless you have a solid cobalt drill bit or better.  For around 1/4" sizes they are almost 30USD each.  Shipping on an arbor press is going to be expensive as well due to the weight of cast iron.

Yes. I understand that I would need an arbor press to use a broach for exactly the reasons you point out.

Me being able to find a arbor press locally for a reasonable price will dictate if I can go this route. I will check with my retired friend, he may even have one I can have/use/buy. He has been giving me a lot of his tools because he wants them to go to a good home.

I am also going to see if I can find a square drill bit jig (probably what it is called) to price out that option as well.

[The_Beast]

I was assuming a broach was going to be the best option. Unfortunately I don't have a press. I do have a drill press with a two directional clamping table (previously owned by a friend of mine who was an aircraft mechanic).

I was looking into a square drill bit because it seems like the most realistic (time wise) approach.

I might try using 1/8" acrylic and scoring it and then using a coping saw.

Does anyone have an idea what a one off plate would cost to get it made at a metal shop?  What's the cheapest approach if I get it professionally done? CNC, laser cutting, etc...  I am sure I can design the plates in cad.

The shop that I've used for both rounds of stainless steel plates quoted me $100 for a one off plate of stainless and $90 for a one off aluminum plate.

Oh man that's expensive.

[Melvang]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+drill+a+square+hole&page=&utm_source=opensearch

[yasuo]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+drill+a+square+hole&page=&utm_source=opensearch

it's not autamotic when you print the file

[Charger]

I really don't see someone broaching 80+ holes accurately with a home setup although i do think it is an interesting idea i just don't see it working out

[Matias]

Something like this would probably work, but I haven't seen ones big enough...

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2469

[Melvang]

I really don't see someone broaching 80+ holes accurately with a home setup although i do think it is an interesting idea i just don't see it working out

it can be done.  If you can accurately line up the flats on the broach what would be stopping you.  The biggest detrmining factor would be an accurate layout with a scribe and not a sharpie.  Scribe lines on layout fluid produces very sharp and crisp lines.  Next use of a proper center drill (with good layout lines and good eyeballs, accurate to withing .005" or .010" is fairly easily attainable.  Next would be drilling and opening the holes of up whatever size for the pilot drill for the square broach.

[Melvang]

Something like this would probably work, but I haven't seen ones big enough...

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2469

those are for wood only.  They would be destroyed by metal very quickly unless it was very thin and non tempered (o stock as we called it in the Navy) though they would probably work in acrylic.  Make sure you use a backing board of hard wood to prevent chipout.

[Matias]

Something like this would probably work, but I haven't seen ones big enough...

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2469

those are for wood only.  They would be destroyed by metal very quickly unless it was very thin and non tempered (o stock as we called it in the Navy) though they would probably work in acrylic.  Make sure you use a backing board of hard wood to prevent chipout.

Oh for sure.  I can't imagine anyone making a metal plate by hand -- too difficult to work with.

I was thinking 1mm-thick fiber glass.

[Charger]

Oh for sure.  I can't imagine anyone making a metal plate by hand -- too difficult to work with.

I was thinking 1mm-thick fiber glass.

I hand made a 4x6 numpad in steel

[Melvang]

steel and aluminum are easy to work with if you have the proper tools.

[Charger]

I really don't see someone broaching 80+ holes accurately with a home setup although i do think it is an interesting idea i just don't see it working out

it can be done.  If you can accurately line up the flats on the broach what would be stopping you.  The biggest detrmining factor would be an accurate layout with a scribe and not a sharpie.  Scribe lines on layout fluid produces very sharp and crisp lines.  Next use of a proper center drill (with good layout lines and good eyeballs, accurate to withing .005" or .010" is fairly easily attainable.  Next would be drilling and opening the holes of up whatever size for the pilot drill for the square broach.

I know i can get fairly accurate just off scribe lines since that is how i laid out my numpad when cutting it but I think I would still use my vertical mill for the layout for the holes for broaching. I'm not saying it isn't possible to do i just don't really see it working out that well for most people trying it

[Melvang]

I really don't see someone broaching 80+ holes accurately with a home setup although i do think it is an interesting idea i just don't see it working out

it can be done.  If you can accurately line up the flats on the broach what would be stopping you.  The biggest detrmining factor would be an accurate layout with a scribe and not a sharpie.  Scribe lines on layout fluid produces very sharp and crisp lines.  Next use of a proper center drill (with good layout lines and good eyeballs, accurate to withing .005" or .010" is fairly easily attainable.  Next would be drilling and opening the holes of up whatever size for the pilot drill for the square broach.

I know i can get fairly accurate just off scribe lines since that is how i laid out my numpad when cutting it but I think I would still use my vertical mill for the layout for the holes for broaching. I'm not saying it isn't possible to do i just don't really see it working out that well for most people trying it

Very true, I would use a mill myself.  But mostly to eliminate the need for the physical layout on the steel.  Just watch the numbers and cut.  That might change though when I see how it works when i get my sherline late this month/early next month.

I think the way to do it would be a jig on the table of the drill press more as a guide to slide the plate along.  This would at least help with the holes being parallel with each other and rows lining up.

[Charger]

Very true, I would use a mill myself.  But mostly to eliminate the need for the physical layout on the steel.  Just watch the numbers and cut.  That might change though when I see how it works when i get my sherline late this month/early next month.

I think the way to do it would be a jig on the table of the drill press more as a guide to slide the plate along.  This would at least help with the holes being parallel with each other and rows lining up.

that is kind of where i foresee the problem being the cumulative error adding up as you go.

[Melvang]

Very true, I would use a mill myself.  But mostly to eliminate the need for the physical layout on the steel.  Just watch the numbers and cut.  That might change though when I see how it works when i get my sherline late this month/early next month.

I think the way to do it would be a jig on the table of the drill press more as a guide to slide the plate along.  This would at least help with the holes being parallel with each other and rows lining up.

that is kind of where i foresee the problem being the cumulative error adding up as you go.

First hole is at .750" second hole is at 1.500" third hole is at 2.250" and so on and so forth.  There isn't a combined error.  Like when you are doing layout for studs on a wall.  Just lay the tape down from one end of the bottom plate and mark off every 16".  If you screw up one, that is the only one off.

Edit:  I could def see cumulative error coming into play without DRO though.

[swill]

Something like this would probably work, but I haven't seen ones big enough...

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2469

those are for wood only.  They would be destroyed by metal very quickly unless it was very thin and non tempered (o stock as we called it in the Navy) though they would probably work in acrylic.  Make sure you use a backing board of hard wood to prevent chipout.

for prototyping I am considering using 5mm wood, so that could be an option.  good call on the hardwood...

[swill]

I really don't see someone broaching 80+ holes accurately with a home setup although i do think it is an interesting idea i just don't see it working out

it can be done.  If you can accurately line up the flats on the broach what would be stopping you.  The biggest detrmining factor would be an accurate layout with a scribe and not a sharpie.  Scribe lines on layout fluid produces very sharp and crisp lines.  Next use of a proper center drill (with good layout lines and good eyeballs, accurate to withing .005" or .010" is fairly easily attainable.  Next would be drilling and opening the holes of up whatever size for the pilot drill for the square broach.

I agree on the scribe, thats the only way to have a chance...

[swill]

I really don't see someone broaching 80+ holes accurately with a home setup although i do think it is an interesting idea i just don't see it working out

it can be done.  If you can accurately line up the flats on the broach what would be stopping you.  The biggest detrmining factor would be an accurate layout with a scribe and not a sharpie.  Scribe lines on layout fluid produces very sharp and crisp lines.  Next use of a proper center drill (with good layout lines and good eyeballs, accurate to withing .005" or .010" is fairly easily attainable.  Next would be drilling and opening the holes of up whatever size for the pilot drill for the square broach.

I know i can get fairly accurate just off scribe lines since that is how i laid out my numpad when cutting it but I think I would still use my vertical mill for the layout for the holes for broaching. I'm not saying it isn't possible to do i just don't really see it working out that well for most people trying it

Very true, I would use a mill myself.  But mostly to eliminate the need for the physical layout on the steel.  Just watch the numbers and cut.  That might change though when I see how it works when i get my sherline late this month/early next month.

I think the way to do it would be a jig on the table of the drill press more as a guide to slide the plate along.  This would at least help with the holes being parallel with each other and rows lining up.

ya, this is what I was planning to do if I go with a drill and broach option.

[swill]

Very true, I would use a mill myself.  But mostly to eliminate the need for the physical layout on the steel.  Just watch the numbers and cut.  That might change though when I see how it works when i get my sherline late this month/early next month.

I think the way to do it would be a jig on the table of the drill press more as a guide to slide the plate along.  This would at least help with the holes being parallel with each other and rows lining up.

I would use a scribe to mark all my parallel lines and centers before I started any actual drilling.  I think this should reduce the incremental drift errors.

that is kind of where i foresee the problem being the cumulative error adding up as you go.

[swill]

Something like this would probably work, but I haven't seen ones big enough...

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2469

those are for wood only.  They would be destroyed by metal very quickly unless it was very thin and non tempered (o stock as we called it in the Navy) though they would probably work in acrylic.  Make sure you use a backing board of hard wood to prevent chipout.

Oh for sure.  I can't imagine anyone making a metal plate by hand -- too difficult to work with.

I was thinking 1mm-thick fiber glass.

I had not thought of fiberglass as an option, but I will add that to the list of potential materials.  I have never worked with fiberglass before, so I am not sure what to expect, but worth a shot if I can find some.

[Melvang]

Something like this would probably work, but I haven't seen ones big enough...

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2469

those are for wood only.  They would be destroyed by metal very quickly unless it was very thin and non tempered (o stock as we called it in the Navy) though they would probably work in acrylic.  Make sure you use a backing board of hard wood to prevent chipout.

Oh for sure.  I can't imagine anyone making a metal plate by hand -- too difficult to work with.

I was thinking 1mm-thick fiber glass.

I had not thought of fiberglass as an option, but I will add that to the list of potential materials.  I have never worked with fiberglass before, so I am not sure what to expect, but worth a shot if I can find some.

Don't do it in the house, and don't wear any good clothes.  Also, take a shower and scrub the hell out of your arms before putting anything on with longer sleeves than what you was already wearing.  Best suggestion would be to get some of those tyvek suits.  It won't kill you just very very annoying and itchy as anything you can imagine.

[swill]

Something like this would probably work, but I haven't seen ones big enough...

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2469

those are for wood only.  They would be destroyed by metal very quickly unless it was very thin and non tempered (o stock as we called it in the Navy) though they would probably work in acrylic.  Make sure you use a backing board of hard wood to prevent chipout.

Oh for sure.  I can't imagine anyone making a metal plate by hand -- too difficult to work with.

I was thinking 1mm-thick fiber glass.

I had not thought of fiberglass as an option, but I will add that to the list of potential materials.  I have never worked with fiberglass before, so I am not sure what to expect, but worth a shot if I can find some.

Don't do it in the house, and don't wear any good clothes.  Also, take a shower and scrub the hell out of your arms before putting anything on with longer sleeves than what you was already wearing.  Best suggestion would be to get some of those tyvek suits.  It won't kill you just very very annoying and itchy as anything you can imagine.

Haha. Duly noted.

[swill]

Something like this would probably work, but I haven't seen ones big enough...

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2469

those are for wood only.  They would be destroyed by metal very quickly unless it was very thin and non tempered (o stock as we called it in the Navy) though they would probably work in acrylic.  Make sure you use a backing board of hard wood to prevent chipout.

for prototyping I am considering using 5mm wood, so that could be an option.  good call on the hardwood...

Unfortunately I can not find metric square hole punches and 14mm is 9/16" which is not included in any of the imperial sets I am finding either.

[tufty]

Punch & die won't do the trick?  Should be pretty cheap to buy as long as you can find someone with a punching machine.  We have a hydraulic punching machine at work that will punch 30mm holes through 15mm of steel like it was nothing, a 2 ton or so manual punch will go to 15-20mm in 2mm steel easily enough - that's good enough for a keyboard plate, I'd have thought.

http://www.megafab.com/StockSquarePunch.html for example have 9/16 punches and dies in stock.

Laser cutters? Kids don't know you were even born.

[tufty]

If you can't find a punch locally, but you can find a press, you might want to look at a unipunch type C-frame.  Depending on size, you should be able to eBay yourself a frame for 20 to 30 bucks.

[swill]

Punch & die won't do the trick?  Should be pretty cheap to buy as long as you can find someone with a punching machine.  We have a hydraulic punching machine at work that will punch 30mm holes through 15mm of steel like it was nothing, a 2 ton or so manual punch will go to 15-20mm in 2mm steel easily enough - that's good enough for a keyboard plate, I'd have thought.

http://www.megafab.com/StockSquarePunch.html for example have 9/16 punches and dies in stock.

Laser cutters? Kids don't know you were even born.

Thanks for the link. This an interesting option as well. Thx.

[Findecanor]

You do not want to inhale fibreglass dust. That type of dust can cause lung cancer.

Instead of making your plates yourself, I think the easiest way is to order your custom design to be laser-cut in acrylic. There are now lots of shops that can do it for a reasonable price. The biggest problem is that while Cherry MX wants 1.5 mm thick plates, 1.5 mm acrylic is too fragile for direct wiring. 1.5 mm acrylic could be strong enough if there is a PCB though.
If you use thick acrylic, you would have to glue the switches in if you don't use a PCB. You could route the snapping points to be 1.5 mm thick. Another option would be to glue two or more layers of 1.5 mm acrylic together.

If you have a CNC-router which can cut metal at high precision, then I suggest this H-shaped hole shape which is more forgiving when it comes to the  edge radius than other shapes.

[jacobolus]

When using acrylic, I highly recommend using a 1/16" or 1.5mm plate, with a thicker acrylic plate directly below it (with holes cut a little bigger). If you’re direct wiring, the second plate can be like 1/4" or 6mm or even thicker; if you have a PCB, then there’s a limit to the combined thickness of the two plates (I think ~4.5mm, but I’m not precisely sure).

Using two plates like this lets you get something that clips the switches in quite well, while also being pretty sturdy.

If making a plate for Alps switches, either 1/16" or 1.5mm will work as a plate thickness for the top plate, but the size of the hole should be a little different depending on plate thickness.

If making a plate for SMK (“monterey blue” etc.) switches, then anything over 1.5mm is too thick for the top plate (1/16" is ~1.6mm).

[Melvang]

Cherry spec sheet will have the distance from switch plate to PCB.  I don't recall what that distance is either but its there.

[swill]

Cherry spec sheet will have the distance from switch plate to PCB.  I don't recall what that distance is either but its there.

Its 5mm. I am using a 5mm acrylic plate on my sprit boards.

[swill]

When using acrylic, I highly recommend using a 1/16" or 1.5mm plate, with a thicker acrylic plate directly below it (with holes cut a little bigger). If you’re direct wiring, the second plate can be like 1/4" or 6mm or even thicker; if you have a PCB, then there’s a limit to the combined thickness of the two plates (I think ~4.5mm, but I’m not precisely sure).

Using two plates like this lets you get something that clips the switches in quite well, while also being pretty sturdy.

If making a plate for Alps switches, either 1/16" or 1.5mm will work as a plate thickness for the top plate, but the size of the hole should be a little different depending on plate thickness.

If making a plate for SMK (“monterey blue” etc.) switches, then anything over 1.5mm is too thick for the top plate (1/16" is ~1.6mm).

I like that idea. How do you laminate them? Just glue?

[Findecanor]

I like that idea. How do you laminate them? Just glue?

Superglue (Cyanoacrylate) works great ... but only if you are going to paint the plate. The fumes from superglue will make clear plastic foggy.
When building my ErgoDox, I used custom-made 1.5 mm acrylic plates reinforced with strips of acrylic on the undersides. I wished then that I had done the two-layer method.

Getting different thicknesses cut could require more than one order, depending on where you look. That is why I proposed two layers of 1.5 mm acrylic. That is thick enough. Three layers of 1.5 mm acrylic glued together will just touch the PCB.

[swill]

I like that idea. How do you laminate them? Just glue?

Superglue (Cyanoacrylate) works great ... but only if you are going to paint the plate. The fumes from superglue will make clear plastic foggy.
When building my ErgoDox, I used custom-made 1.5 mm acrylic plates reinforced with strips of acrylic on the undersides. I wished then that I had done the two-layer method.

Getting different thicknesses cut could require more than one order, depending on where you look. That is why I proposed two layers of 1.5 mm acrylic. That is thick enough. Three layers of 1.5 mm acrylic glued together will just touch the PCB.

This is giving me ideas. I will be using the enabler PCBs because I have a ton of them and this type of prototyping is exactly why I bought them.

I have already stared experimenting with building cases by building up 1/8" silicone sheets by laminating them together.

I will probably try to do a 1.5 MM acrylic plate supported by sheets of silicone with holes cut for the enablers to sit suspended in the laminated silicone case. This thing is going to be epic.

[Tiramisuu]

You could home build fibreglass or carbon fibre pretty easily.
There is a cadre of people on this forum heavily invested in selling these things so every time some one asks about prototyping diy at home the answer is always laser, waterjet , cnc.

Complete horse poo.   There are about a million diy approaches  to pcb making on youtube.    The same goes for cutting and cleaning up metal.   A die grinder would be nice but a drill press, a dremel and a small set of files would do the job just fine.   Aluminum is messy but easy to cut.

Home Depot or Canadian Tire have nice little pieces of metal to do that with.

CnC machining is like using a nuke to kill a sparrow.

[Tiramisuu]

Straight cuts with a jigsaw for aluminum plate.

[Tiramisuu]

Straight cuts with a grinding disk

[swill]

You could home build fibreglass or carbon fibre pretty easily.
There is a cadre of people on this forum heavily invested in selling these things so every time some one asks about prototyping diy at home the answer is always laser, waterjet , cnc.

Complete horse poo.   There are about a million diy approaches  to pcb making on youtube.    The same goes for cutting and cleaning up metal.   A die grinder would be nice but a drill press, a dremel and a small set of files would do the job just fine.   Aluminum is messy but easy to cut.

Home Depot or Canadian Tire have nice little pieces of metal to do that with.

CnC machining is like using a nuke to kill a sparrow.

A lot of people here also won't settle for less than perfection, so those suggestions are valid.  For prototyping, I am all about just getting something together that works and does not require me to invest a ton of money.

I have both a dremel and a pneumatic die grinder, so putting cutting blades on those is something I was already considering.  Thanks for the suggestions.  I will watch the videos you linked...

[swill]

Straight cuts with a jigsaw for aluminum plate.

Straight cuts with a grinding disk

These will work well to shape a larger sheet down to the size of a keyboard, but it won't help too much for actually cutting the switch openings.  That is the real tricky part IMO.  I could get creative and build a guide for my dremel and put a small cutting blade on it to cut the switch openings in a straight line, so I can probably use this concept in general.  Thx...