[IC] ePBT Royal Alpha

[donutcat]

I'll definitely have some pictures of the set when it arrives, and I've even got my macro gear out so we can get a real good look at the dyesubbing. And getting all the issues out and listed makes a much better chance that I won't miss something by myself.

[donutcat]

Just a small update since it's been awhile. There's been a delay on Everglide's end due to moving buildings, so it'll probably be partway through April before anything else is heard from them.

[midnight2903]

Just a small update since it's been awhile. There's been a delay on Everglide's end due to moving buildings, so it'll probably be partway through April before anything else is heard from them.

Thanks for the update. Still quite interested in these.

[donutcat]

Update 5/22/18
It's been basically forever since there's been an update to this. Everglide was supposed to be transitioning buildings in March and were supposed to be getting back to me in early April. As the lack of updates shows, that didn't happen. I do however have some good news. After seeing ePBT 9009 recently it has come to my attention that ePBT has greatly improved their available layout compatibility, enough so that I would be willing to run this set through them. So that's what I've decided to do. Nothing is absolutely in stone yet, but I've been in contact with them concerning making the set and so far it looks good. Given their history of high quality sets, I'm optimistic about the future of this set under them.

[Remsky]

Id buy an epbt version of this set

[mkarlsson]

Good move!

[oh_chesteroni]

Epbt Royal alpha too? Bring on all the greeeeeeen donut!

Edit: but for real, I will jump on an epbt set no problem. Just need to choose between coniferous and malachite now....

[donutcat]

Epbt Royal alpha too? Bring on all the greeeeeeen donut!

Edit: but for real, I will jump on an epbt set no problem. Just need to choose between coniferous and malachite now....

Malachite's *extremely* early-on, so they shouldn't be competing at all. I dare to say Coni R2 would ship before Malachite hit GB.

[oh_chesteroni]

Epbt Royal alpha too? Bring on all the greeeeeeen donut!

Edit: but for real, I will jump on an epbt set no problem. Just need to choose between coniferous and malachite now....

Malachite's *extremely* early-on, so they shouldn't be competing at all. I dare to say Coni R2 would ship before Malachite hit GB.

I feel like an 8 year old in a candy store with nothing but student debt, but I'll be damned if I don't get all 3 green sets! Good thing there isn't an all green gmk NGE option... I'd actually (but not really) be living on the street at that point haha.

[midnight2903]

I'm ready AF for this. I was hesitant in getting GMK Royal Alpha because of the pad print but this is 

[Createboardhk]

It looks good, I absolutely want a set!

[azulyf]

Only hope we can get 2.25-2.75 space bars, which is never included in any ePBT sets.

[donutcat]

Only hope we can get 2.25-2.75 space bars, which is never included in any ePBT sets.

That may be because they don't have those sizes available. I'll be checking through all of their compatibility in order to fit as much into this set as I reasonably can.

[Remsky]

Only hope we can get 2.25-2.75 space bars, which is never included in any ePBT sets.

If they have to make new molds, I highly doubt they would be included then as part of the base.

[azulyf]

Only hope we can get 2.25-2.75 space bars, which is never included in any ePBT sets.

That may be because they don't have those sizes available. I'll be checking through all of their compatibility in order to fit as much into this set as I reasonably can.

I don't think blank R4 2.25 and 2.75 keys need any new mold. BTW Everglide has convex mini spacebars available, but I prefer ePBT's font and thickness.

[donutcat]

Ok, normal R4 2.25 and 2.75 keys would be doable, I was thinking convex.

I do need to adjust the compatibility of the kit some since I've picked up a bit more of a feel for kits since I did that kit mockup. Specifically I'm looking for:
 - 1.5u Code keys
 - R3 1.25u/1.5u Fn keys - physical support for several layouts
 - R4 1.25u/1.5u Fn keys
 - Change menu icon to "Menu" - might be a point of argument, I prefer the text better
 -  Split space support, including 3u

Lemme know your thoughts on these changes. Looking at ePBT's recent BoW set on KBDFans, pricing still seems really good for the compatibility they're offering.

[oh_chesteroni]

Ok, normal R4 2.25 and 2.75 keys would be doable, I was thinking convex.

I do need to adjust the compatibility of the kit some since I've picked up a bit more of a feel for kits since I did that kit mockup. Specifically I'm looking for:
 - 1.5u Code keys
 - R3 1.25u/1.5u Fn keys - physical support for several layouts
 - R4 1.25u/1.5u Fn keys
 - Change menu icon to "Menu" - might be a point of argument, I prefer the text better
 -  Split space support, including 3u

Lemme know your thoughts on these changes. Looking at ePBT's recent BoW set on KBDFans, pricing still seems really good for the compatibility they're offering.

Changes to R3 and R4 Fn keys are for 40% peeps right? Not that it really matters to me, just curious about different layouts.
I support changing menu icon to text. Also indifferent about split space.

Based on the kbdfans 9009 GB, we know that epbt provides great value for the number of keys you get. So I'm not really miffed about getting extra keys I necessarily won't used. Now if this was SP SA, then that would be a different story.

[_ODIN_]

will an International Kit be possible like in the epbt 9009 GB ?

[donutcat]

Changes to R3 and R4 Fn keys are for 40% peeps right? Not that it really matters to me, just curious about different layouts.
I support changing menu icon to text. Also indifferent about split space.

Based on the kbdfans 9009 GB, we know that epbt provides great value for the number of keys you get. So I'm not really miffed about getting extra keys I necessarily won't used. Now if this was SP SA, then that would be a different story.

Even better news is that set was even cheaper going through Taobao instead of KBDFans, so that should make it even cheaper.

will an International Kit be possible like in the epbt 9009 GB ?

I can try to look into that, but due to the nature of the sublegends on this set I believe that an Intl kit would need quite a few more keys than normal in order to cover layouts correctly.

Hold up, I just remembered that I actually drafted up an Intl kit for GMK RA

Anyone that uses Intl layouts please chime in and let me know if any of this is incorrect or needs to be adjusted, I have no idea what layouts need what so I'm really not the best to try and piece this together. If ePBT is willing to do the kits I'd totes be up for offering it.

[_ODIN_]

Changes to R3 and R4 Fn keys are for 40% peeps right? Not that it really matters to me, just curious about different layouts.
I support changing menu icon to text. Also indifferent about split space.

Based on the kbdfans 9009 GB, we know that epbt provides great value for the number of keys you get. So I'm not really miffed about getting extra keys I necessarily won't used. Now if this was SP SA, then that would be a different story.

Even better news is that set was even cheaper going through Taobao instead of KBDFans, so that should make it even cheaper.

will an International Kit be possible like in the epbt 9009 GB ?

I can try to look into that, but due to the nature of the sublegends on this set I believe that an Intl kit would need quite a few more keys than normal in order to cover layouts correctly.

thanks for looking into it 

[mkarlsson]

Please, uk iso support in base kit as epbt 9009 gb

[_ODIN_]

Changes to R3 and R4 Fn keys are for 40% peeps right? Not that it really matters to me, just curious about different layouts.
I support changing menu icon to text. Also indifferent about split space.

Based on the kbdfans 9009 GB, we know that epbt provides great value for the number of keys you get. So I'm not really miffed about getting extra keys I necessarily won't used. Now if this was SP SA, then that would be a different story.

Even better news is that set was even cheaper going through Taobao instead of KBDFans, so that should make it even cheaper.

will an International Kit be possible like in the epbt 9009 GB ?

I can try to look into that, but due to the nature of the sublegends on this set I believe that an Intl kit would need quite a few more keys than normal in order to cover layouts correctly.

Hold up, I just remembered that I actually drafted up an Intl kit for GMK RA

Show Image

Anyone that uses Intl layouts please chime in and let me know if any of this is incorrect or needs to be adjusted, I have no idea what layouts need what so I'm really not the best to try and piece this together. If ePBT is willing to do the kits I'd totes be up for offering it.

Looking good so far.  :thumb:
As far as norde goes there are a few keys missing. Here is an image from the pulse sa drop which shows perfect norde support
https://imgur.com/Po4l3RW


In terms of matching the theme of the keyset you could swap some of the legends already present with those in the international kit
Like so (just switch the Q with the Ä , for example):
https://imgur.com/TF9ZrWX

[idlemao]

Definitely in. I'm interested in this and Coniferous. Can never have too much green in my life. 

[donutcat]

So here's where I'm at currently. In talk with the ePBT manager according to the email, waiting to hear back about doing the dual legends currently. While waiting, I've had some time to touch up some compatibility on the set as well as a couple legends adjustments that I felt needed doing

List of changes:
 - / to ÷
 - * to ×
 - LOCK legends to Lock
 - | on ISO keys changed to ¦
 - Backspace icon on \| key changed to bottom ¬, upper ¬ changed to ¦, following proper US-Intl layout
 - ISO-UK sublegends ¬, ", and £ added to `~, 2, and 3 keys respectively in an attempt to consolidate legends and reduce ISO whining expand compatibility
 - R1 1u and R2 1.5u Backspace added
 - R3 and R4 1.25u and 1.5u Fn keys added for variety of layout support
 - 1.5u Code keys added

Hopefully the sublegend adjustments aren't taken too badly since I feel they do add to the value of the set design and its usage of the US-Intl legends. Next I'll be looking to work on an Intl kit for those interested. I've found a few resources on what's needed for the layouts and I'll be trying to make a reasonable kit out of it. Lemme know what you think of the progress so far.

[oh_chesteroni]

Hey donut, are you using the standard epbt base colour or are you considering using the white base alpha colour that is currently being used for the BoW epbt GB?

[_ODIN_]

So here's where I'm at currently. In talk with the ePBT manager according to the email, waiting to hear back about doing the dual legends currently. While waiting, I've had some time to touch up some compatibility on the set as well as a couple legends adjustments that I felt needed doing

Show Image

List of changes:
 - / to ÷
 - * to ×
 - LOCK legends to Lock
 - | on ISO keys changed to ¦
 - Backspace icon on \| key changed to bottom ¬, upper ¬ changed to ¦, following proper US-Intl layout
 - ISO-UK sublegends ¬, ", and £ added to `~, 2, and 3 keys respectively in an attempt to consolidate legends and reduce ISO whining expand compatibility
 - R1 1u and R2 1.5u Backspace added
 - R3 and R4 1.25u and 1.5u Fn keys added for variety of layout support
 - 1.5u Code keys added

Hopefully the sublegend adjustments aren't taken too badly since I feel they do add to the value of the set design and its usage of the US-Intl legends. Next I'll be looking to work on an Intl kit for those interested. I've found a few resources on what's needed for the layouts and I'll be trying to make a reasonable kit out of it. Lemme know what you think of the progress so far.

NICE. COUNT ME IN WITH AN INT KIT :thumb:

[donutcat]

Hey donut, are you using the standard epbt base colour or are you considering using the white base alpha colour that is currently being used for the BoW epbt GB?

Undecided on color currently, will look into that as I get further into the process.

[oumakavoula]

interested but unsure of the difference between OG vs GMK white in the form

[goodman247]

Look forward to the update!!

[donutcat]

This is what I've come up with for an Intl kit

Taking advantage of the sublegends I was able to cover a good deal of compatibility according to what I've seen of comparing the layouts. Additionally, some of the base kit sublegends already take care of some of the keys needed. This should provide row-correct legends for ISO UK, DE, SE, NO, DK, and a smidge of support for IT, ES, PT as they tended to differ largely from the others. Crazy how many ISO sub-layouts there are.

[_ODIN_]

This is what I've come up with for an Intl kit

Show Image

Taking advantage of the sublegends I was able to cover a good deal of compatibility according to what I've seen of comparing the layouts. Additionally, some of the base kit sublegends already take care of some of the keys needed. This should provide row-correct legends for ISO UK, DE, SE, NO, DK, and a smidge of support for IT, ES, PT as they tended to differ largely from the others. Crazy how many ISO sub-layouts there are.

Perfect. Just a 1.25u shift is missing :)

[donutcat]

Perfect. Just a 1.25u shift is missing

In base kit under the ISO Enter.

[_ODIN_]

Perfect. Just a 1.25u shift is missing

In base kit under the ISO Enter.

Ohh. Missed that sorry

[dwarf.factory]

i love the latte legend idea. thumb up for great works 

[Petch]

Shouldn't R1 \| key also have the sublegends?

[donutcat]

Shouldn't R1 \| key also have the sublegends?

It does in my current revision, I just didn't get a pic up yet.

[donutcat]

Base Kit

Intl Kit

Little bit more fidgeting with the base kit to get it where I think it should be. Most sublegends should be the correct ANSI-Intl legends along with a few extras from the OG design kept. I wanted to get a little crazy with modifying some of the sublegends, but I figured it'd be better to try keeping closer to the OG for this set and not risking wandering too far off from what the set identity should be.

[_ODIN_]

Show Image

Base Kit

Show Image

Intl Kit

Little bit more fidgeting with the base kit to get it where I think it should be. Most sublegends should be the correct ANSI-Intl legends along with a few extras from the OG design kept. I wanted to get a little crazy with modifying some of the sublegends, but I figured it'd be better to try keeping closer to the OG for this set and not risking wandering too far off from what the set identity should be.

looking sweet

[soilheart]

Little bit more fidgeting with the base kit to get it where I think it should be. Most sublegends should be the correct ANSI-Intl legends along with a few extras from the OG design kept. I wanted to get a little crazy with modifying some of the sublegends, but I figured it'd be better to try keeping closer to the OG for this set and not risking wandering too far off from what the set identity should be.

Just a little curious, what's the differences/additions to US Intl.?

I actually use US Intl. most of the time, to be able to both efficiently code and communicate in Swedish without changing layouts, so having actual US Intl. keycaps would be really awesome (not that I'm against additions/minor updates, just wanted to clarify that there are some of us who actually use US Intl. and don't just want a kit because how good it looks and appreciate your efforts).

EDIT: Ok I looked at the base kit and I have one comment and one request(/wish).

Firstly, 2, 3, 4, [, ], and -_ have incorrect sublegend placement, is that intentional or not? 2 doesn't have " on US Intl and the ² should be printed there instead (lower sublegend), switching the sublegends is also an alternative as the upper sublegend is "free" on most US Intl. variants (and some actually have a double accent there, which kinda looks like double quotes). The ³ on 3, € on 4, « on [, » on ] and ¥ on -_ (number row) should also be the lower sublegend. (The ¹ being the upper sublegend on 1 is correct though). I will say that the upper single sublegend errors I can live with, but the error/switch on the 2 will probably confuse me (and anyone else actually expecting the be able to use the kit with US Intl. layout).

Secondly: I would really appreciate if you would add a 1u R3 |\¦¬ key to "complete" the set, because as it is both R3 ISO keys are based on the UK ISO keys. Hopefully adding a 1u key isn't that expensive or bothersome. And just to make it clear, on most OS:es the R3 and R4 ISO key does give different results when using Alt Gr. on US based layouts so that's not a typo The R3 key should be |\¦¬ (as mentioned above) and the R4 key should be |\<> (Windows don't support the <> part, but Linux kinda does).

[donutcat]

Little bit more fidgeting with the base kit to get it where I think it should be. Most sublegends should be the correct ANSI-Intl legends along with a few extras from the OG design kept. I wanted to get a little crazy with modifying some of the sublegends, but I figured it'd be better to try keeping closer to the OG for this set and not risking wandering too far off from what the set identity should be.

Just a little curious, what's the differences/additions to US Intl.?

I actually use US Intl. most of the time, to be able to both efficiently code and communicate in Swedish without changing layouts, so having actual US Intl. keycaps would be really awesome (not that I'm against additions/minor updates, just wanted to clarify that there are some of us who actually use US Intl. and don't just want a kit because how good it looks and appreciate your efforts).

EDIT: Ok I looked at the base kit and I have one comment and one request(/wish).

Firstly, 2, 3, 4, [, ], and -_ have incorrect sublegend placement, is that intentional or not? 2 doesn't have " on US Intl and the ² should be printed there instead (lower sublegend), switching the sublegends is also an alternative as the upper sublegend is "free" on most US Intl. variants (and some actually have a double accent there, which kinda looks like double quotes). The ³ on 3, € on 4, « on [, » on ] and ¥ on -_ (number row) should also be the lower sublegend. (The ¹ being the upper sublegend on 1 is correct though). I will say that the upper single sublegend errors I can live with, but the error/switch on the 2 will probably confuse me (and anyone else actually expecting the be able to use the kit with US Intl. layout).

Secondly: I would really appreciate if you would add a 1u R3 |\¦¬ key to "complete" the set, because as it is both R3 ISO keys are based on the UK ISO keys. Hopefully adding a 1u key isn't that expensive or bothersome. And just to make it clear, on most OS:es the R3 and R4 ISO key does give different results when using Alt Gr. on US based layouts so that's not a typo The R3 key should be |\¦¬ (as mentioned above) and the R4 key should be |\<> (Windows don't support the <> part, but Linux kinda does).

The reason for those sublegends being where they are on the keys is because that's how the original set has them placed. I'm not sure why, but for some reason MOZ decided to put them like that for the set design instead of their "proper" locations. Additionally the " are on 2 because I was looking to add as much ISO-UK support to the base kit as I could without needing extra keys. Also, I can def put in the R3 key, 1 key isn't a whole lot of effort to make ISO peeps happy.

I could look at making the set more accurate for US-Intl, but I'm not sure if people would want that over it being more accurate to the OG set design. Maybe I'm overthinking it and the green on green on white is enough for people to associate the set. This'll be easier with my next PBT sublegend set when I don't have to worry about matching previous set design.

[soilheart]

The reason for those sublegends being where they are on the keys is because that's how the original set has them placed. I'm not sure why, but for some reason MOZ decided to put them like that for the set design instead of their "proper" locations. Additionally the " are on 2 because I was looking to add as much ISO-UK support to the base kit as I could without needing extra keys. Also, I can def put in the R3 key, 1 key isn't a whole lot of effort to make ISO peeps happy.

I could look at making the set more accurate for US-Intl, but I'm not sure if people would want that over it being more accurate to the OG set design. Maybe I'm overthinking it and the green on green on white is enough for people to associate the set. This'll be easier with my next PBT sublegend set when I don't have to worry about matching previous set design.

Yeah, I realized that may be the case. With that said I feel like Moz design is a little inconsistent... for example the ?/ key has it's single sublegend (¿) on the bottom, while most other single legend keys have it on the top. So I'd ask you to at least consider making your set more consistent with sublegend placement, even though it may cause some deviations from the previous design (for example an alternative that could result in fewer changes, is moving the ¿, and possibly the ¼, ½ and ¾, to the top to match other keys). I totally understand if you don't want to make any "major" changes now though, just thought I'd point out the errors/inconsistencies

And as I said, the most important change would be the numrow 2, as the addition of the " makes the key confusing and actually wrong. So I would recommend you to either go with the Moz design on that one, or swap the sublegends if you decide to keep both. Also thanks for listening about the R3 key (and just to avoid mistakes, the R3 key should have the same legends as the R2 1.5U key above the ANSI Enter).

[donutcat]

This is what I've got right now the for base with adjusted US-Intl sublegends. I prefer knowing they're where they should be functionally, but I could understand if people would want me to use the OG design, considering there are several elements here that are design choices and not part of US-Intl.

https://www.strawpoll.me/15818877

Here's a poll so you guys can vote. Also, I added split spacebar support cause I remembered ePBT has that stuff.

[_ODIN_]

Updates

[donutcat]

Updates

I've been poking at ePBT about it with no responses. I've not heard back from them after May 22 after talking to someone claiming to be "the manager of enjoypbt". I had a back and forth conversation going with them within the 24hrs I first contacted them and then radio silence still after sending 4 new messages with mockups and asking for updates. I'll try again a bit to get ahold of them before calling it a lost effort

[_ODIN_]

Updates

I've been poking at ePBT about it with no responses. I've not heard back from them after May 22 after talking to someone claiming to be "the manager of enjoypbt". I had a back and forth conversation going with them within the 24hrs I first contacted them and then radio silence still after sending 4 new messages with mockups and asking for updates. I'll try again a bit to get ahold of them before calling it a lost effort

you could maybe try to text wan from kbdfans

[Poesjuh]

As long as you keep the sublegends I’m happy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[donutcat]

Updates

I've been poking at ePBT about it with no responses. I've not heard back from them after May 22 after talking to someone claiming to be "the manager of enjoypbt". I had a back and forth conversation going with them within the 24hrs I first contacted them and then radio silence still after sending 4 new messages with mockups and asking for updates. I'll try again a bit to get ahold of them before calling it a lost effort

you could maybe try to text wan from kbdfans

I'm wanting to avoid going through kbdfans so that A) I'm communicating directly instead of going through a middleman, and B) because I want to keep the price potentially lower than if I went through kbdfans for the set.

[t8c]

Also have you seen this - > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/cherry-profile-Dye-Sub-Keycap-Set-PBT-plastic-Irish-layout-for-cherry-mx-mechanical-keyboar/32890575011.html ?

[dimo]

Also have you seen this - > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/cherry-profile-Dye-Sub-Keycap-Set-PBT-plastic-Irish-layout-for-cherry-mx-mechanical-keyboar/32890575011.html ?

And? The quality of those in the close up looks horrid. EnjoyPBT/ GMK doesn't even compare

[donutcat]

Also have you seen this - > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/cherry-profile-Dye-Sub-Keycap-Set-PBT-plastic-Irish-layout-for-cherry-mx-mechanical-keyboar/32890575011.html ?

Well sure, but that's not the same set at all. For one it's a quite different base color scheme, and then the sublegends are just ANSI-Intl without some of the elements that MOZ added to Royal Alpha. Not even speaking about the quality differences that are sure to exist, that's a completely different set that I'm certain people looking for Royal Alpha would not be satisfied by.