[IC]GMK Triumph Adler [LIVE!!!!]

[intelli78]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/triumph-adler-gmk-keyset/?mode=guest_open



WHY PRODUCE THE SET

The G8*-3000 Triumph Adler aged teal colorway is one of the most beautiful keycap sets of all time. It’s also one of the rarest keycap sets of all time. Great beauty * great rarity = a very rewarding set to produce for the community.

WHY WE CAN PRODUCE IT

There have been a couple false starts for a Triumph Adler GB, because GMK’s MOQ for a custom color was said to be 700+. When I contacted them in November, they said the MOQ was actually 1,000  . However, GMK’s upper management were willing to halve the MOQ to 500, in exchange for a concession from us — a price premium on each set. Considering that GH is probably not a key customer for GMK, this bargain is as good as we could have hoped for, and I think, an expression of support for the keyboard enthusiast community, straight from the management. So let’s take a minute to say “Thanks” to GMK, because none of this would be at all possible without their willingness to work with GH.

ALSO, AS YOU WILL READ SHORTLY, THE PRICE PREMIUM TURNS OUT TO BE PRETTY REASONABLE SPREAD OVER 500 SETS, EACH SET IS THE SAME OR CHEAPER AS PREVIOUS GMK SETS. In fact it makes me wonder if more GMK sets would SUCCEED if we cranked the MOQ to 500 and brought the price way down...

DESIGN PHILOSOPHY

I would say the approach is “compassionate dictatorship” We did our best to accommodate the most common feedback, but Photekq and I also included some features because we personally love them. We also left out a lot of features we see as only “nice-to-haves” vs. "must-haves", because our recent observations of the GB market suggest that large and expensive sets are struggling to make MOQ. This was even more important since we were already working under the constraints of the custom color price premium and 500 MOQ. We subjected every key to considerable scrutiny, and tried to be as economical and efficient as possible. On the other hand, we didn’t go straight to the bare minimum setup (ANSI TKL) because in all likelihood this GB is a one-shot deal, and if the keys aren’t made now, they never will be.

FEATURES

• Custom modifier color, custom alpha base color, and custom legend color. This will be the first-ever GMK GB with custom-mixed, sample-matched colors. COOL!:thumb:
• Full ANSI 104-key coverage. This set will 100% cover your Filco-style tenkeyless or full-size board.
• Full US ISO 105-key coverage. This set will 100% cover your Filco-style ISO tenkeyless or full-size board. The legends will not perfectly match non-US layouts (e.g., UK or DE). But with a R3 \ | and an R4 blank, you’ll have the most language-neutral ISO layout possible while retaining a backslash/pipe key on your keyboard. Inspired by this WEY board: https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3833/12212239544_2bc51d1304_z.jpg
• Classic Windows 98 winkeys and menu key. Win7 Since Win98 win/menu are pad-print only, we're doing Win7 instead to keep everything doubleshot. 1x winkeys are blank because there are no doubleshot win/menu legends available for R5.
• Classic Cherry legends. These legends are almost a perfect match for old G80-3000 boards. Full “Insert” and “Delete” legends, arrows and nav legends on numpad, icon+text mods, no crazy Originative-style tab, etc. But there are a couple twists. For example, the all-caps 1.5x “CTRL”s and the “PRTSC”, which are found on many of the original TA boards. Also, all three “Enter” keys are text+legend, which is not true to the originals, but it is more consistent.
  
• Full “Control” text on 1.25x mods, and no “Alt Gr” at all. For symmetry, and because people asked for it.
• Left, down, and right arrows, and bottom-row numpad keys are all R5 (A-profile). This means that when you use your set on a winkeyless board with a  Tsangan set, you’ll have a FULL-A-PROFILE bottom row, old-school Cherry style. This should please winkeyless users. When you’re on a modern winkey board, you’ll have mixed profiles, but only between the alpha cluster vs. the mod/numpads. Since it requires significant hand movements to switch between these two sections of the board, this should not be a significant bother. Also, there is a precedent for this: AEG Olympia boards, and it looks/works fine https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2946/15301853109_1a0cc99c7a_h.jpg
• 60% symmetry compatibility: includes a teal R2 \ | key. Swap this out for the gray one and use your Esc in place of your ` ~ key. This provides 60% symmetry with half the number of keys - 1 instead of 2. If you normally use ` ~ instead of Esc there… sorry!
• 1.75x shift. This key has high bang-for-buck, because it enables at least 3 layouts: HHKB, MX Mini, and 1800 (on the 1800 you can stick your Fn in for the 0, or a 1x Winkey for a profile match).
• Fn: I wanted to cut this too (60% users with a 1.75x shift and Fn can just use the up arrow instead) but Photekq lobbied for it. I think it’s unnecessary… but since we’ve cut so many other possible keys… it got to stay. If you have HHKB, thank him. Oh well, I guess no set can be perfect
• Extra teal spacebars.
• No extra language side printing, cuz ain’t nobody got time fer dat!
• All Teal legends, Blue alpha legends because it's truer to the original and looks better.

The set is not subject to further changes.

PRICE / MOQ

-We've narrowed this down to 2 1 options by now

1. We try to have Massdrop run it (I have not contacted them about this so this is all hypothetical, but I would not compromise on the terms explained here). There will be no changes to layout. Massdrop will do a drop, collect the money, and pay GMK. GMK will ship Massdrop sets presorted in ziploc bags plastic trays, and Massdrop will distribute them to everyone.

Pros = Easiest way to reach MOQ, they reach a LOT of people with their mailing list. Cheap! I don’t have to ship 100s of sets. YAY!
Cons = ?? A lot of people hate them because of the Granite set. But the circumstances here are totally different, they won’t be sorting or designing anything, just shipping packages to their final destination, which is their bread & butter, I don't think there would be a major chance for error.

Estimated price: $115, + actual shipping (ESTIMATE ONLY based on my knowledge of GMK’s and Massdrop’s practices)

2. We do a traditional GB. We try to run up to 500 sets with GH, Deskthority, and Reddit, and some hefty 100+ bulk orders from our Korean, Vietnamese, and Chinese friends (and other friends too, no discrimination intended)
 
Pros = Lowest possible price, avoids the potential complications of involving a third party.
Cons = It’s already hard enough to get to just 250 (tho the price would be highly attractive...). I have to ship up to 500 packages, FML! It could take months to get to MOQ, if it happens at all.

Estimated price: $100 + actual shipping


GOING FORWARD

All done, GB starting 3/24/15 

SPECIAL CONSIDERATION: The EUR—USD exchange rate is very favorable to the dollar right now, at a 5-year high, as well as a high for the last 90 days. Now is a better-than-ever time to order from GMK.


Original TA eye candy

[Photekq]

I think guys on EC already tried this. GMK said they don't have a colour that comes close, and for a custom colour you need a really, really high MOQ. Not 100% on this, but I think it was something like that.

[HoffmanMyster]

If we can make this happen, I'd be all over it.  I have a hard time saying no to GMK.   

[pasph]

I think GMK don't have that teal 

[MythicalWagyu]

If GMK could get that teal color I would definitely be in... just got a Triumph Adler Royal Alpha cap set on my 60% Pure and they are damn lovely keycaps.

[yicaoyimu]

There has been some discussion on EC and the conclusion there is that the teal color is the effect of yellowing. It's easier to tell by looking at the flip side of caps.



Note the edge of the back of the cap and the difference in color.

[Rotaku]

omg yes i'd be all for this

[intelli78]

There has been some discussion on EC and the conclusion there is that the teal color is the effect of yellowing. It's easier to tell by looking at the flip side of caps.

Yea, as others have said it would likely be a custom color. I couldn't say what that entails in terms of cost and MOQ right now, but I say we gauge interest before dooming the effort. Maybe it will prove to be an insurmountable barrier... but maybe it won't

[yicaoyimu]

There has been some discussion on EC and the conclusion there is that the teal color is the effect of yellowing. It's easier to tell by looking at the flip side of caps.

Yea, as others have said it would likely be a custom color. I couldn't say what that entails in terms of cost and MOQ right now, but I say we gauge interest before dooming the effort. Maybe it will prove to be an insurmountable barrier... but maybe it won't

I heard that MOQ is 700 for custom colors. But yeah, it never hurts to see how much interest is out there.

[exitfire401]

Definitely interested. It's the perfect set for the silenced realforce with NoveTouch sliders I'll be working on soon.

[Elocutive]

I could possibly buy a couple (between 2 or 4) to help make it to MOQ. I love the look of this set.

[intelli78]

Definitely interested. It's the perfect set for the silenced realforce with NoveTouch sliders I'll be working on soon.

Sounds great, except for that damn right shift and enter clacking. I need to get some materials and try to figure out how to stop that so I can put GMK on my Novatouch without driving myself nuts.

[FrostyToast]

In for one!

[feizor]

Yep I'm in.  The bright white of fengs cyan set didn't quite do it for me. I much prefer grey.

[Joey Quinn]

If the teal can be done I'm in. For sure!

[exitfire401]

Definitely interested. It's the perfect set for the silenced realforce with NoveTouch sliders I'll be working on soon.

Sounds great, except for that damn right shift and enter clacking. I need to get some materials and try to figure out how to stop that so I can put GMK on my Novatouch without driving myself nuts.

Thinking I'm gonna try cutting/fitting and hot gluing a soft landing pad to take care of it. Doesn't really bother me from what I've experienced from it so far though.

[Den441]

I have wanted this to happen for a long time! I think I mentioned something about it to you in your WTB thread intelli78. However, there are a lot of GBs happening now, so I think to ensure success, we would want to wait a little while for peoples wallets to recover. Maybe it could happen sometime next year. I think there are a few ways to handle this set as I touched on before in intelli's WTB thread.

Vintage Colorway
This would be the all-out, high MOQ, GMK Custom Color option. It would look like the pics we have all seen of the aged doubleshots on the TA 286 by using a custom teal. I think this is the set most TA fans want, but a GB with a GMK custom color has not been done iirc, so I do not know if it can be successful.

Original Colorway
As you can see from the pic in yicaoyimu's post, the original TA colors were closer to what most people here would consider a "grey and blue olivetti" type of colorway. The colors can also be seen on most TA typewritter caps. This set would use existing GMK colors like N5 for the blue on the mods and V4 for the alpha legends. I doubt many would try to artificially age them to get the teal color, but this colorway would be very close to how the TA 286 caps ORIGINALLY looked. Maybe someone could try dipping a N5 blue enter key from elitekeyboards in brown dye or coffee/tea and see if it turns teal lol. I know that works for aging plastic guitar pickguards and knobs. If there was an easy way to get the vintage look on these, it might be a better option.

SP
You could also do a custom color run with SP. If you could get them to do the sculpted F and J keys and use TA legends, this may be an option. The keys would not have the high quality GMK feel, but I think you could replicate the look with some work.

In any case, you can count me in.

[redeye]

Definitely interested. It's the perfect set for the silenced realforce with NoveTouch sliders I'll be working on soon.

Sounds great, except for that damn right shift and enter clacking. I need to get some materials and try to figure out how to stop that so I can put GMK on my Novatouch without driving myself nuts.

I'm getting this with my novatouch too, I'm going to try using this:

Frost Liquid Wrap Matt Rubber Coating Dip Aerosol - But i'm not sure where i'm going to spary it. I'm thinking under the cap or on the plate where it hits the back of the cap? Any thoughts?

Sorry, I should have pm'ed this.

[phearboner]

Beautiful Count me in if this does go down

[Joey Quinn]

I have wanted this to happen for a long time! I think I mentioned something about it to you in your WTB thread intelli78. However, there are a lot of GBs happening now, so I think to ensure success, we would want to wait a little while for peoples wallets to recover. Maybe it could happen sometime next year. I think there are a few ways to handle this set as I touched on before in intelli's WTB thread.

Vintage Colorway
This would be the all-out, high MOQ, GMK Custom Color option. It would look like the pics we have all seen of the aged doubleshots on the TA 286 by using a custom teal. I think this is the set most TA fans want, but a GB with a GMK custom color has not been done iirc, so I do not know if it can be successful.

Original Colorway
As you can see from the pic in yicaoyimu's post, the original TA colors were closer to what most people here would consider a "grey and blue olivetti" type of colorway. The colors can also be seen on most TA typewritter caps. This set would use existing GMK colors like N5 for the blue on the mods and V4 for the alpha legends. I doubt many would try to artificially age them to get the teal color, but this colorway would be very close to how the TA 286 caps ORIGINALLY looked. Maybe someone could try dipping a N5 blue enter key from elitekeyboards in brown dye or coffee/tea and see if it turns teal lol. I know that works for aging plastic guitar pickguards and knobs. If there was an easy way to get the vintage look on these, it might be a better option.

SP
You could also do a custom color run with SP. If you could get them to do the sculpted F and J keys and use TA legends, this may be an option. The keys would not have the high quality GMK feel, but I think you could replicate the look with some work.

In any case, you can count me in.

The first option is obviously the best but I like the idea of trying to age the caps ourselves. This summer or next year is IMO the best timeline if we want to reach the MOQ.

[FrostyToast]

How long would it even take to yellow some keycaps ourselves?

[geniekid]

I've wanted this set ever since I saw it posted in the Dolch GB thread

Probably won't hit MOQ without a lot of vendor support but I'd buy a couple of sets.

[bueller]

Unfortunately I think this set is a pipe dream. Ageing caps manually to get to that stage would take AGES and it's not even 100% certain whether the plastic will yellow the same as it used to. The reason most vintage computers have all yellowed is due to a fire retardant that they used to put in the plastic but I don't believe they use it any more.

[nubbinator]

Unfortunately I think this set is a pipe dream. Ageing caps manually to get to that stage would take AGES and it's not even 100% certain whether the plastic will yellow the same as it used to. The reason most vintage computers have all yellowed is due to a fire retardant that they used to put in the plastic but I don't believe they use it any more.

I suppose you could accelerate it by placing them under a UV light, but yeah, it wouldn't be easy to get that color.

And yes, Bromine really isn't present in plastic like it used to be.

[bueller]

Unfortunately I think this set is a pipe dream. Ageing caps manually to get to that stage would take AGES and it's not even 100% certain whether the plastic will yellow the same as it used to. The reason most vintage computers have all yellowed is due to a fire retardant that they used to put in the plastic but I don't believe they use it any more.

I suppose you could accelerate it by placing them under a UV light, but yeah, it wouldn't be easy to get that color.

And yes, Bromine really isn't present in plastic like it used to be.

Bromine! That's what it was called, I typed Bromide into Google and couldn't figure it out haha

[nubbinator]

We all forget things sometimes.

On topic, maybe we could look at Devlin doing a set?  I know it's not GMK, but it's better than SP and they may actually do it now that QWERKeys is out of the equation.  The only reason I didn't try and do some of the typewriter sets through them instead of SP is that I would have had to deal with QWERKeys and the UV GB was a bit of a cluster**** because of dealing with them.

[jonathanyu]

I think the TA 286 color is "yellowed" blue due to sun light.  Maybe run a raindrop gb, and put this under a tan bed for few months....

[intelli78]

Personally, I would neither consider running, nor even buying, a set that had to be artificially aged. It strikes me as incredibly impractical, I can't imagine the group spending $25,000+ on an incomplete product that requires a coffee or UV bath to finish. Just... no. If that's what everybody wants, then so be it, but I wouldn't be involved.

Also I can't really see doing it in any profile other than Cherry. If not GMK, maybe Imsto PBT?   I don't know what his capabilities are re: colors, but he's probably more flexible than GMK. Edit: No, can't dyesub white legends on teal modifiers SP again I personally have no interest in, and I think most people feel the same way. There is already the Tealgreen set which is the closest thing to a TA reproduction, but DCS is just a poor approximation.



This is a set that deserves to be made correctly, or not at all.

[slickmamba]

more than in

[FrostyToast]

Could we get a cheaper set of gmk mods only? The alphas shouldn't be too hard to replicate with other companies and would help us reach moq.

[geniekid]

If not GMK, maybe Imsto PBT?

I think IMSTO only does dyesub so you can't get the white on teal.  It might be possible to make something like the Triumph Adler Royal Alpha dyesubs with teal on grey and a couple of tasteful light green legends and maybe even a handful of fun white-on-teal or white-on-green doubleshots from GMK.  I don't know if BSP+IMSTO would be any cheaper but the MOQ might be lower.

[intelli78]

If not GMK, maybe Imsto PBT?

I think IMSTO only does dyesub so you can't get the white on teal.  It might be possible to make something like the Triumph Adler Royal Alpha dyesubs with teal on grey and a couple of tasteful light green legends and maybe even a handful of fun white-on-teal or white-on-green doubleshots from GMK.  I don't know if BSP+IMSTO would be any cheaper but the MOQ might be lower.

Ah yeah, you're exactly right about the dyesub, what am I thinking.

[nubbinator]

If not GMK, maybe Imsto PBT?

I think IMSTO only does dyesub so you can't get the white on teal.  It might be possible to make something like the Triumph Adler Royal Alpha dyesubs with teal on grey and a couple of tasteful light green legends and maybe even a handful of fun white-on-teal or white-on-green doubleshots from GMK.  I don't know if BSP+IMSTO would be any cheaper but the MOQ might be lower.

BSP wouldn't get you 1.25x, mods though, only 1.5x.  There are others out there that would be better to better serve more people.

[LechnerDE]

Count me in for a set 

Then again this will probably be impossible to get. Custom Color MOQ is just too damn high...

[intelli78]

I dispatched an email to GMK to make contact and get some basic information, will report back when I have something.

[Heliosphere]

Love the color, so I'm interested.

[mz/x]

This is awesome. I am interested 

[Delete]

Good  Idea

[Karura]

Just some thoughts on this:
1) GMK does not have a colour that matches the shade of green/teal.
2) This is very similar to Feng's Cyan GB.

Not dissuading you, but it might be difficult to run, a custom colour would yield a very high MOQ, something to consider.

[whentheclouds]

gonna shed a tear if this ever happens. but let's be honest, there's no way we're reaching 700 MOQ needed for a custom order (i'm aware this number is just speculation atm). the tealgreen/soul free set comes close in looks, but it uses WYSE (?) legends, and i took a heavy sip of the Cherry/GMK koolaid in my short time here that i now refuse to consider purchasing anything else.

p.s. yes it's similar to Feng's Cyan set, save for that small difference of this set being superior in every conceivable way

[taylordcraig]

I'm in.
#GMKIC #MOQ #HERESAY

[margo baggins]

I would love a TA set, but I doubt it will ever happen

I will just keep collecting TA dyesub sets

[Mandolin]

Priming, bromide bath, then applying higher than atm pressure + pure O₂ gas + UV light could age them quickly maybe.
Done in big industrial tanks.

We need a chemist/engineer opinion for factibility and costs quote.

[intelli78]

Well, the news is not good:

Individual colors are definitely possible but require a MOQ of 1,000 full sets.
I am trying to get lower MOQs for the granulate from our distributors but it´s quite hard so we have to deal with the 1,000 sets MOQ for now.

Brainstorming options:

- Negotiate back w/ them to lower MOQ as much as possible, and try to get significant vendor/overseas support. If we can get MOQ down to 700, GH could buy 300, Koreans 100-200, and vendors the rest. Very difficult but not impossible.
- Learn more about the granulate required and maybe talk to distributors directly about how we can lower the cost for this buy (probably not going to get us anywhere, but just throwing the idea out)
- Convince them the teal needs to become a standard color (chance = low)
- Use SP or maybe Devlin (I don't even consider this a real option, these would just be a teal set, not a TA replica)
- Only do teal modifiers to reduce cost and make it easier to fill MOQ, while also negotiating MOQ down? (would be a damn shame not to make the entire set, though...)
- Chemistry to turn blue into teal without damaging the plastic/making it brittle (as I've said, seems reallllly impractical, I think this would end up being a bigger mess than just figuring how to how get to the MOQ)
- Give up?

I feel that if man can put a probe on a comet, we can make this keycap replica set happen. I think that the first option is the most realistic... it's just going to take a very piecemeal approach to filling the MOQ and it will require a lot of buy-in and support. Hard, yes... but impossible... no, I don't think so.

Constructive ideas?

[Photekq]

- Negotiate back w/ them to lower MOQ as much as possible, and try to get significant vendor/overseas support. If we can get MOQ down to 700, GH could buy 300, Koreans 100-200, and vendors the rest. Very difficult but not impossible.

If you want to make this happen, I think you should focus on this.

[margo baggins]

FWIW - Devlin don't seem to like working with people.

I approached them fairly recently and got told they would only work with qwer.io. Though, now qwer.io has stopped trading maybe that will have changed.

[nubbinator]

FWIW - Devlin don't seem to like working with people.

I approached them fairly recently and got told they would only work with qwer.io. Though, now qwer.io has stopped trading maybe that will have changed.

Yeah, I mentioned the same thing earlier.  Their caps are better than SPs, but they see to have an even higher MOQ than GMK.

[margo baggins]

FWIW - Devlin don't seem to like working with people.

I approached them fairly recently and got told they would only work with qwer.io. Though, now qwer.io has stopped trading maybe that will have changed.

Yeah, I mentioned the same thing earlier.  Their caps are better than SPs, but they see to have an even higher MOQ than GMK.

Is it? I was under the impression their moq wasn't that high - certainly higher than SP, but I thought less than GMK.

[nubbinator]

According to QWER, their MOQ was like 500.  I've tried multiple times to get an answer out of Devlin, but they've never been forthcoming, so I have to believe QWER's statement.

[margo baggins]

According to QWER, their MOQ was like 500.  I've tried multiple times to get an answer out of Devlin, but they've never been forthcoming, so I have to believe QWER's statement.

But similarly, I have a hard time believing QWER ordered 500 of anything, without being disrespectful,and based on absolutely nothing except my own "feelings" I can't see them having ordered 500 anything's.

And - on top of that, you used to be able to order one offs - which I'm fairly certain are Devlin caps, I have an F-Row here in front of me, Thick Orange caps, with engraved and infilled legends. I don't think anyone else has a set of these and I'm fairly sure they came from Devlin.