[GB] JTK Red Riot and JTK Yolch [YOLCH 100% SHIPPED, RED RIOT SHIPPING]

[pixelpusher]

I certainly hope everyone is getting a yellow canoe for yolch

https://percent.studio/collections/mechanical-keyboard/products/canoe?variant=25276448342080

[Puddsy]

I certainly hope everyone is getting a yellow canoe for yolch

https://percent.studio/collections/mechanical-keyboard/products/canoe?variant=25276448342080

i might get one

i don't use 65 but that color is too perfect

[nasp]

I certainly hope everyone is getting a yellow canoe for yolch

https://percent.studio/collections/mechanical-keyboard/products/canoe?variant=25276448342080

Is that a good price for a Canoe? What was the original GB price?

[pixelpusher]

It’s a suspiciously low price for a Canoe.  Be familiar with PCB repair is my biggest warning for anyone buying.  Otherwise it’s a very nice keyboard.

[clik_clak]

It’s a suspiciously low price for a Canoe.  Be familiar with PCB repair is my biggest warning for anyone buying.  Otherwise it’s a very nice keyboard.

LOL you do realize that that site is being run by Percent Studio directly, right? Calling the price suspicious is pretty laughable.

[pixelpusher]

It’s a suspiciously low price for a Canoe.  Be familiar with PCB repair is my biggest warning for anyone buying.  Otherwise it’s a very nice keyboard.

LOL you do realize that that site is being run by Percent Studio directly, right? Calling the price suspicious is pretty laughable.

People are suspicious of their ability to offer the same keyboard for $100 less than it was less than a year ago.  Perhaps they have chosen a different manufacturing facility.  Perhaps the materials are not as nice.  Perhaps they have decided their keyboards are so popular that they want to make less money... you pick which one sounds most likely.

The biggest issue for me is the lack of communication with the community. 

But this is the Yolch, RR thread.  Enough

[LightningXI]

Sorry to trash on it, but having built 4-5 Canoes and repaired a Skog, I can confirm that their PCBs (are not good and) can behave in erratic ways. On all the Canoe PCBs, the crystal was offset by a significant amount. On one, the lighting behaved strangely, despite this all being on Bootmapper. Another one actually bricked, but the client had a replacement ready. Another big thing that  confused me is the absence of split backspace support when it's so easy to do so on 65%, and it makes sense if you're going for the all 1u top row aesthetic.

While cheap, I'd avoid buying Percent boards altogether after those experiences.

[Sup]

Sorry to trash on it, but having built 4-5 Canoes and repaired a Skog, I can confirm that their PCBs (are not good and) can behave in erratic ways. On all the Canoe PCBs, the crystal was offset by a significant amount. On one, the lighting behaved strangely, despite this all being on Bootmapper. Another one actually bricked, but the client had a replacement ready. Another big thing that  confused me is the absence of split backspace support when it's so easy to do so on 65%, and it makes sense if you're going for the all 1u top row aesthetic.

While cheap, I'd avoid buying Percent boards altogether after those experiences.

I agree the PCB's they make are super trash. MY Canoe PCB the top right light just turned off out of no where i even ported it to QMK aswell no luck. I probably have to reflow some solder to get it fixed but damn i am still waiting for someone to make a good PCB for the Canoe. I agree i would look for a different custom keyboard unless you really want the design of the Canoe go ahead  . But the risks are pretty big.

[NitPik]

not to be the pessimistic one to bring everyone down, but at what point do we give up? at no point? will refunds be issued if something has happened and it is no longer available? im not trying to suggest that we should move to this, just wondering for curiosities sake.

[pixelpusher]

not to be the pessimistic one to bring everyone down, but at what point do we give up? at no point? will refunds be issued if something has happened and it is no longer available? im not trying to suggest that we should move to this, just wondering for curiosities sake.

Well the keycaps exist, so I don’t think I’ll give up unless I start seeing them for sale on eBay or something.

If they wanna send random JTK sets, we could Cerakote them in USMC red. Should work

[Puddsy]

not to be the pessimistic one to bring everyone down, but at what point do we give up? at no point? will refunds be issued if something has happened and it is no longer available? im not trying to suggest that we should move to this, just wondering for curiosities sake.

Considering that if zf or jtk don't fulfill this they basically kill their reputation, I don't think we're at the point of considering giving up just yet

Here's my thought on this:

ZF has taken a lot of projects on considering their team size, and are overwhelmed. this is manifesting now in them having a bunch of delayed GBs and many confused people. JTK didn't realize how difficult it would be to make a blank set with their tooling, and as a result, that just adds to the delay. I am still confident at this point that JTK and ZF will fulfill this GB.

In case it wasn't already clear, JTK is making the sets, then sending them to ZF to send off to the other proxies.

As far as I'm aware, they currently have their share of Yolch sets (plus the EU share), and are waiting on JTK to finish Red Riot to 1) send the EU share to caps-unlocked and 2) send the US share to Switchmod so that fulfillment can be completed.

The issue, of course, is that JTK is taking a while to finish sorting the Red Riot sets, as they are all hand sorted, and do not have an easy profile guide on them. That, plus reproductions of certain keys, has led to about six months of delays.

As far as current status of Red Riot production, last I heard (about 45 days ago) there would be another 2 week delay for reproduction of some keys, plus the Chinese New Year holiday. So my educated guess is that progress should pick up sometime soon. I will send another round of messages out on Monday to see if I can get a reply. JTK's rep does read this thread, and I know he wants this to be done as much as the rest of us.

This is a new endeavor for JTK, and there was more risk involved than I thought. I figured they'd just singleshot the keys and be done with it, but apparently that's not how it works. It's been tough to get a clear explanation of the problem due to the language barrier.

And as always, if I hear news, you'll hear it too.

[pandemic123]

thanks for the great communication Puddsy, to echo the concern of the previous person, how will it go down if they don't deliver on red riot? I myself ordered both and are waiting for Yolch, would I get a refund on red riot and then get my Yolch shipped out?

from your response, it covers everything except where the liability is. would switch mod be liable for refunding me if JTK never delivers red riot?

[Puddsy]

thanks for the great communication Puddsy, to echo the concern of the previous person, how will it go down if they don't deliver on red riot? I myself ordered both and are waiting for Yolch, would I get a refund on red riot and then get my Yolch shipped out?

from your response, it covers everything except where the liability is. would switch mod be liable for refunding me if JTK never delivers red riot?

i have no idea and will try to lock this down sometime in the near future

i suspect there will be some malarkey with ZF

we shall see

[pandemic123]

oof going through ZF will be rough wish you best of luck haha. there has been a string of posts on r/mk calling out ZF in the last few months. I think they have good intentions but just have too many projects going on. I would imagine like you said JTK wants to maintain their reputation since they have a lot to gain as a reputable alternative to GMK.

we have a lot to gain as a community as well if JTK can become successful since they are priced fairly, we have to remember these are plastic parts haha

[Puddsy]

I have an update with some substance!

The EU proxy has received their share of Yolch sets.

Still waiting on RR...

[kokoon]

newsflash - caps-unlocked just emailed me that Yolch arrived earlier today and that it'll be delivered to my address (EU) on Wednesday!

edit: puddsy was faster

[Puddsy]

another round of messages has been sent to JTK and ZF

[Puddsy]

I HAVE NEWS

Sorting has resumed, all the keys that had to be remade have been remade.

The reason it took so long for the packages to reach the EU proxy was because the first shipment of Yolch got eaten by DHL, so they had to send a second.

I asked for a timeline estimate, I don't imagine it will be too much longer if all that is left is sorting.

P

[dangboy]

Erect.

[duckboi]

I HAVE NEWS

Sorting has resumed, all the keys that had to be remade have been remade.

The reason it took so long for the packages to reach the EU proxy was because the first shipment of Yolch got eaten by DHL, so they had to send a second.

I asked for a timeline estimate, I don't imagine it will be too much longer if all that is left is sorting.

P

nice

[nasp]

I HAVE NEWS

Sorting has resumed, all the keys that had to be remade have been remade.

The reason it took so long for the packages to reach the EU proxy was because the first shipment of Yolch got eaten by DHL, so they had to send a second.

I asked for a timeline estimate, I don't imagine it will be too much longer if all that is left is sorting.

P

Time to start looking for You sets on the black market... 

[Puddsy]

I HAVE NEWS

Sorting has resumed, all the keys that had to be remade have been remade.

The reason it took so long for the packages to reach the EU proxy was because the first shipment of Yolch got eaten by DHL, so they had to send a second.

I asked for a timeline estimate, I don't imagine it will be too much longer if all that is left is sorting.

P

Time to start looking for You sets on the black market... 

as a reminder, there are more extras than there were sets ordered

so you should have no trouble getting a set

[pixelpusher]

I think he meant for you, puddsy, to be on the lookout for the “missing” keycaps sold elsewhere

[Puddsy]

I think he meant for you, puddsy, to be on the lookout for the “missing” keycaps sold elsewhere

we're not gonna have to do that because they're shipping to ZF next week and then onto proxies not long after :DDDD

[Rogue_Jellybean]

I think he meant for you, puddsy, to be on the lookout for the “missing” keycaps sold elsewhere

we're not gonna have to do that because they're shipping to ZF next week and then onto proxies not long after :DDDD

Wait, is this RR that is being shipped to ZF next week? Or Yolch?

[nasp]

I think he meant for you, puddsy, to be on the lookout for the “missing” keycaps sold elsewhere

Oops. My phone autocorrected. Should have been "Yolch" and not "You".

[Puddsy]

I think he meant for you, puddsy, to be on the lookout for the “missing” keycaps sold elsewhere

we're not gonna have to do that because they're shipping to ZF next week and then onto proxies not long after :DDDD

Wait, is this RR that is being shipped to ZF next week? Or Yolch?

ZF already has Yolch. This is for RR.

JTK ships all the sets to ZF, who counts them, QCs, and then ships them to their respective proxies.

[Puddsy]

HYPE

[Puddsy]

And now the bad news:

JTK paid a bunch of money out of pocket to have... apparently more keys remade than I first thought. The set is supposedly "95%," which frankly is good enough for me. When you receive your sets, please post any issues in this thread. I suspect it'll be better than JTK has let on to me, as they're perfectionists.

JTK is also deeply apologetic for the delay, and I am as well. Glad that this is almost done.

P

[pixelpusher]

And now the bad news:

JTK paid a bunch of money out of pocket to have... apparently more keys remade than I first thought. The set is supposedly "95%," which frankly is good enough for me. When you receive your sets, please post any issues in this thread. I suspect it'll be better than JTK has let on to me, as they're perfectionists.

JTK is also deeply apologetic for the delay, and I am as well. Glad that this is almost done.

P

95% huh.  Wonder what that even means.  I guess we'll see when they get here. Just imagining that I'm going to turn my keeb to the side and see that I have a Z where the Comma should be or something.  Oh well, we shall see. 

[nasp]

Is ZF the only vendor that is selling extras?

[Puddsy]

Is ZF the only vendor that is selling extras?

switchmod will have some red riot i think

And now the bad news:

JTK paid a bunch of money out of pocket to have... apparently more keys remade than I first thought. The set is supposedly "95%," which frankly is good enough for me. When you receive your sets, please post any issues in this thread. I suspect it'll be better than JTK has let on to me, as they're perfectionists.

JTK is also deeply apologetic for the delay, and I am as well. Glad that this is almost done.

P

95% huh.  Wonder what that even means.  I guess we'll see when they get here. Just imagining that I'm going to turn my keeb to the side and see that I have a Z where the Comma should be or something.  Oh well, we shall see. 

(Attachment Link)

in fairness they sent me some pics and it looks fine. they asked me not to post them so that the new impression will be good, which is fair

zf will send me some pics in the coming days and i'll share those so we can get a good view

[nickheller]

[Puddsy]

Show Image

just hang on for a day or two and we'll get some resolution

[LightningXI]

Show Image

just hang on for a day or two and we'll get some resolution

How many pixels are we waiting to load?

[Puddsy]

Show Image

just hang on for a day or two and we'll get some resolution

How many pixels are we waiting to load?

1920x1080 or more

[Puddsy]

been shipped to proxies, now we wait for zf to send pics

i should get my sets fairly soon as well

[pandemic123]

Puddsy you're a f***ing GB god, what is this communication, this man is double posting to keep us updated. meanwhile other group buy runners be getting passive aggressive if you ask for an update every 3 months.

my n****a

[RavenPanther]

Considering that if zf or jtk don't fulfill this they basically kill their reputation, I don't think we're at the point of considering giving up just yet

Here's my thought on this:

ZF has taken a lot of projects on considering their team size, and are overwhelmed. this is manifesting now in them having a bunch of delayed GBs and many confused people. JTK didn't realize how difficult it would be to make a blank set with their tooling, and as a result, that just adds to the delay. I am still confident at this point that JTK and ZF will fulfill this GB.

And as always, if I hear news, you'll hear it too.

You're so fantastic, your handling of this group buy is top notch. Definitely a good impression on someone like me who's just getting into the hobby.

I'm a little upset that I had to read this here, rather than in the actual thread for the other ZF GB I'm in, but admittedly I haven't done much digging, either. I really hope ZF values their reputation and morality enough to do whatever's right in the end for the various GBs, regardless of what happens.

thanks for the great communication Puddsy

Seconded, and just bringing more attention to the fantastic communication going on here.

i have no idea and will try to lock this down sometime in the near future

i suspect there will be some malarkey with ZF

we shall see

Could you elaborate, if you're able to?

oof going through ZF will be rough wish you best of luck haha. there has been a string of posts on r/mk calling out ZF in the last few months. I think they have good intentions but just have too many projects going on. I would imagine like you said JTK wants to maintain their reputation since they have a lot to gain as a reputable alternative to GMK.

we have a lot to gain as a community as well if JTK can become successful since they are priced fairly, we have to remember these are plastic parts haha

Like I said above, hopefully ZF ends up doing right by the customers. Whether that's seeing things through to the end or issuing refunds, or whatever else.

And while you have a point, some of these plastic parts are very expensive. Not specifically this GB, but others that are having issues as of late.

[Puddsy]

Considering that if zf or jtk don't fulfill this they basically kill their reputation, I don't think we're at the point of considering giving up just yet

Here's my thought on this:

ZF has taken a lot of projects on considering their team size, and are overwhelmed. this is manifesting now in them having a bunch of delayed GBs and many confused people. JTK didn't realize how difficult it would be to make a blank set with their tooling, and as a result, that just adds to the delay. I am still confident at this point that JTK and ZF will fulfill this GB.

And as always, if I hear news, you'll hear it too.

You're so fantastic, your handling of this group buy is top notch. Definitely a good impression on someone like me who's just getting into the hobby.

I'm a little upset that I had to read this here, rather than in the actual thread for the other ZF GB I'm in, but admittedly I haven't done much digging, either. I really hope ZF values their reputation and morality enough to do whatever's right in the end for the various GBs, regardless of what happens.

it's something that's been talked about behind the scenes for a long time, but if you're new, you won't have the connections to necessarily know what's up with each and every vendor/user/designer. No harm no foul to anyone. ZF went on vacation when a bunch of stuff was about to ship (longer than normal CNY vacation) so that's why things have been so weird with them.

thanks for the great communication Puddsy

Seconded, and just bringing more attention to the fantastic communication going on here.

i have no idea and will try to lock this down sometime in the near future

i suspect there will be some malarkey with ZF

we shall see

Could you elaborate, if you're able to?

basically the worry was that JTK would never finish, but clearly that's not an issue anymore

oof going through ZF will be rough wish you best of luck haha. there has been a string of posts on r/mk calling out ZF in the last few months. I think they have good intentions but just have too many projects going on. I would imagine like you said JTK wants to maintain their reputation since they have a lot to gain as a reputable alternative to GMK.

we have a lot to gain as a community as well if JTK can become successful since they are priced fairly, we have to remember these are plastic parts haha

Like I said above, hopefully ZF ends up doing right by the customers. Whether that's seeing things through to the end or issuing refunds, or whatever else.

And while you have a point, some of these plastic parts are very expensive. Not specifically this GB, but others that are having issues as of late.

as far as i know Buddha (JTK's rep) dumped a decent chunk of his own personal money into making sure this project would be as good as it could be

any issues that remain are because his wallet ran dry

he is truly a saint and cares a lot about this community and his product, i would work with him again for sure, but on a less ambitious project (something more yolch speed)

i am not sure when my sets will arrive (i asked ZF about it just now) and i will be able to compare my sets to y'all's and we can see what's good

[Puddsy]

Puddsy you're a f***ing GB god, what is this communication, this man is double posting to keep us updated. meanwhile other group buy runners be getting passive aggressive if you ask for an update every 3 months.

the big reason i ran a GB was out of spite for runners who didn't/don't communicate

people want updates whether they are good or bad

it should also be said that i will probably make no money from this GB at all

krelbit and ZF poured a ton of money into extras to get this to MOQ so all i'll get out of this is 2 sets of red riot and 2 sets of yolch

my meme turned into a passion project

[nasp]

What he said.  Amen forever and ever!

[pandemic123]

Puddsy you're a f***ing GB god, what is this communication, this man is double posting to keep us updated. meanwhile other group buy runners be getting passive aggressive if you ask for an update every 3 months.

the big reason i ran a GB was out of spite for runners who didn't/don't communicate

people want updates whether they are good or bad

it should also be said that i will probably make no money from this GB at all

krelbit and ZF poured a ton of money into extras to get this to MOQ so all i'll get out of this is 2 sets of red riot and 2 sets of yolch

my meme turned into a passion project

you never never work for free! maybe you can use this to partner up with another vendor who needs a good runner to get some money on the next run. I think the community is becoming more careful with some recent scary group buys. I'm still in some that I don't want to call out incase those GB runners use that against me that I'm scared of. Mostly because they are taking longer than 6 months and there has been very little communication or any pictures showing any progress.

the thing I find the most scary is some of those runners are doing interest checks for other projects while they have many open ones and people are still on-board with the hype. in theory they could just ghost like some of the other runners have and make out with thousands of dollars.

I think after I get all my currently in process items, I'm done for a while except from a very few select runners. I think the key thing is you want a runner who can not only communicate but is able to take the liability. Some runners have a chance to make a lot of money but only because they are taking a risk. If they don't need to have any liability in refunding customers if things go south then they have a business opportunity with no liability and a lot of upside. For example if you're working with a proxy who get's the parts from ZF who then commissions JTK who is responsible for the liability here? If JTK flops and doesn't refund zfrontier, I don't know if zfrontier has a policy in their terms of service where they will bite the bullet and refund everyone. then if zFrontier doesn't do that, repeat the same question for the proxies. then finally if the proxy won't take the liability go to the GB runner. if he doesn't as well, then JTK takes the reputation hit but you then also realize that there is no real protection and GBs should probably be capped at 6 months since you really are going into risky territory past paypal protection window.

A lot of the both doesn't apply to this group buy, just some general thoughts about group buys.

[HotRoderX]

Puddsy you're a f***ing GB god, what is this communication, this man is double posting to keep us updated. meanwhile other group buy runners be getting passive aggressive if you ask for an update every 3 months.

the big reason i ran a GB was out of spite for runners who didn't/don't communicate

people want updates whether they are good or bad

it should also be said that i will probably make no money from this GB at all

krelbit and ZF poured a ton of money into extras to get this to MOQ so all i'll get out of this is 2 sets of red riot and 2 sets of yolch

my meme turned into a passion project

you never never work for free! maybe you can use this to partner up with another vendor who needs a good runner to get some money on the next run. I think the community is becoming more careful with some recent scary group buys. I'm still in some that I don't want to call out incase those GB runners use that against me that I'm scared of. Mostly because they are taking longer than 6 months and there has been very little communication or any pictures showing any progress.

the thing I find the most scary is some of those runners are doing interest checks for other projects while they have many open ones and people are still on-board with the hype. in theory they could just ghost like some of the other runners have and make out with thousands of dollars.

I think after I get all my currently in process items, I'm done for a while except from a very few select runners. I think the key thing is you want a runner who can not only communicate but is able to take the liability. Some runners have a chance to make a lot of money but only because they are taking a risk. If they don't need to have any liability in refunding customers if things go south then they have a business opportunity with no liability and a lot of upside. For example if you're working with a proxy who get's the parts from ZF who then commissions JTK who is responsible for the liability here? If JTK flops and doesn't refund zfrontier, I don't know if zfrontier has a policy in their terms of service where they will bite the bullet and refund everyone. then if zFrontier doesn't do that, repeat the same question for the proxies. then finally if the proxy won't take the liability go to the GB runner. if he doesn't as well, then JTK takes the reputation hit but you then also realize that there is no real protection and GBs should probably be capped at 6 months since you really are going into risky territory past paypal protection window.

A lot of the both doesn't apply to this group buy, just some general thoughts about group buys.

just a word of friendly advice, if you can pull out of those buy's. I made the mistake of staying in a buy when I should have pulled out. I lost my buyer protection from paypal and ended up getting screwed with a lot of other people. The group buy was a roller coaster from the start and it was obvious in Heine sight this was how things were going to end. As it was thought we were sent damaged products and a lot of us were not sent our full orders. I still missing a PCB I was promised and had a damaged unusable (Shattered) bottom plate. That would have been easy to find on any type of QC inspection. The best part was when the group buy runner on his discord said people that call him out in public or say anything against him would be forgotten and could forget any more support. He deleted that shortly after saying it. This same runner ran another group buy not long ago and had people throwing money at him. I hope it works out better for them then it did us.

[NitPik]

are we going to get emails when it ships out. its been so long since i purchased that i dont have the email from my purchase confirmation anymore lol.

[Puddsy]

are we going to get emails when it ships out. its been so long since i purchased that i dont have the email from my purchase confirmation anymore lol.

depends on proxy, but i think you'll get a shipping notification from your vendor of choice

[Puddsy]

my sets should ship to me tomorrow or the day after

yolch extras will be up on en.zfrontier this week, i will let y'all know when they go up

[futurecrime]

Oooooooh I just got my order status from capsunlocked changed to 'awaiting shipment'.  It's happening. OMG Puddsy you're the best. Notice me Puddssyyyyy.

[Puddsy]

Oooooooh I just got my order status from capsunlocked changed to 'awaiting shipment'.  It's happening. OMG Puddsy you're the best. Notice me Puddssyyyyy.

send me your jane

[oldcat]

Puddsy you're a f***ing GB god, what is this communication, this man is double posting to keep us updated. meanwhile other group buy runners be getting passive aggressive if you ask for an update every 3 months.

the big reason i ran a GB was out of spite for runners who didn't/don't communicate

people want updates whether they are good or bad

it should also be said that i will probably make no money from this GB at all

krelbit and ZF poured a ton of money into extras to get this to MOQ so all i'll get out of this is 2 sets of red riot and 2 sets of yolch

my meme turned into a passion project

Respect!
Not saying making money out of designs is wrong or anything, but we do need more passion projects as opposed to money projects for the health of this community.
Also, spot on regarding the communications part.