Author Topic: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped  (Read 4904 times)

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Offline ander

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It's killin' me not to buy this myself, but I've got one, so:

Dell IBM Keyboard 1397651

BIN $50.00 + 35 US shipping


201945-0





Lexmark made two Model M variants for Dell. This is the more sought-after one with the old Dell logo. I've rarely seen them this clean, too. Good luck!
« Last Edit: Fri, 17 August 2018, 22:10:53 by ander »
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Offline method_

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Re: Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 16 August 2018, 04:02:25 »
Good deal!
thock program.

Offline ed_avis

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Re: Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 16 August 2018, 07:13:03 »
Why is the old Dell logo one more sought after?

Offline ag36

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Re: Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 17 August 2018, 14:56:29 »
Why is the old Dell logo one more sought after?

Rarity
Model M*5, SSK*4, M13 black*1, Model F XT*1, AT*1 F107*1, Unicomp*1, 3278 *1, Leopold FC750R*2, 980M*2 FC980C*1 Filco majestouch 2 TKL*1, Cooler Master MasterKeys S PBT*1, Uniqey Q100*2, Ducky pocket*1, KBD75*2, KBD19X*2, HHKB pro 2*1, Type-S*1 Topre Realforce RGB*1, 108 all 30g*1, numpad*1, 87U*1 Dell AT101W*2, Alps64*2, V80 matias quiet click*2, Quiet liner *1, WYSE ASCII *1

Offline ander

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Re: Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 17 August 2018, 22:13:04 »
Why is the old Dell logo one more sought after?

There seem to be fewer of the old-logo version around. Plus, it's older.
We are not chasing wildly after beauty with fear at our backs. – Natalie Goldberg

Offline laxfan91

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 18 August 2018, 18:57:02 »
I have one of these with the old logo. I got it and it was very dirty but it cleaned up real nice, plus no broken rivets. It looks good with my Dell computer at work (secondary computer, I got a Unicomp on the main computer).

~$50 for this is a nice find, especially since it cost me $70 for mine.

Offline ander

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 25 August 2018, 03:54:43 »
I never quite understood why IBM stood by and let Lexmark---which was, by then, a separately owned company---run off Model M's (even calling them "Model M" on the label) for non-IBM customers like Dell.

I know you can't copyright a keyboard layout. However, IBM patented the buckling spring switch in 1978, which means the patent was still in effect in '92, when this Dell/Lexmark board was made (patents running 20 years till they must be renewed).

Were mechanical keyboards already on their way out by then, to the extent that IBM didn't care? But IBM was still Lexmark's biggest customer. Why would Lexmark run the risk of alienating them by selling copies of their (IBM's) own keyboard to competing companies? Did they actually phone up IBM and get permission to do it? Did Lexmark pay IBM a royalty on each non-IBM Model M they sold?

The answers to these questions may be lost in the mists of computing history, but I can't help wondering.
We are not chasing wildly after beauty with fear at our backs. – Natalie Goldberg

Offline ag36

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 25 August 2018, 06:09:42 »
Likely due to high cost of maintaining the factories, public traded mega corps were always like that.
Model M*5, SSK*4, M13 black*1, Model F XT*1, AT*1 F107*1, Unicomp*1, 3278 *1, Leopold FC750R*2, 980M*2 FC980C*1 Filco majestouch 2 TKL*1, Cooler Master MasterKeys S PBT*1, Uniqey Q100*2, Ducky pocket*1, KBD75*2, KBD19X*2, HHKB pro 2*1, Type-S*1 Topre Realforce RGB*1, 108 all 30g*1, numpad*1, 87U*1 Dell AT101W*2, Alps64*2, V80 matias quiet click*2, Quiet liner *1, WYSE ASCII *1

Offline laxfan91

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 25 August 2018, 16:50:39 »
I never quite understood why IBM stood by and let Lexmark---which was, by then, a separately owned company---run off Model M's (even calling them "Model M" on the label) for non-IBM customers like Dell.

I know you can't copyright a keyboard layout. However, IBM patented the buckling spring switch in 1978, which means the patent was still in effect in '92, when this Dell/Lexmark board was made (patents running 20 years till they must be renewed).

Were mechanical keyboards already on their way out by then, to the extent that IBM didn't care? But IBM was still Lexmark's biggest customer. Why would Lexmark run the risk of alienating them by selling copies of their (IBM's) own keyboard to competing companies? Did they actually phone up IBM and get permission to do it? Did Lexmark pay IBM a royalty on each non-IBM Model M they sold?

The answers to these questions may be lost in the mists of computing history, but I can't help wondering.

According to Lexmark's Annual Report to the SEC in 1996, they were required to profit share with IBM for most products bearing the IBM name. There were also cross-licensing agreements that allowed other products not bearing the IBM name to be made and sold royalty-free. There's nothing talking about any issues with products sold under different names.

Lexmark was 90% or more dependent in IBM as a customer. Only 10% or less of Lexmark's revenue came from elsewhere.

This is probably why these re-badges were okay because they never threatened IBM in any way and they had cross-licensing agreements that may have allowed for all of this.


Lexmark Report to the SEC 1996

http://getfilings.com/o0001001288-97-000006.html

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 26 August 2018, 09:01:27 »
Also in those days it seemed much more important that everything sitting on your desk have the same brand and companies sold the packages that way.

IBM was the king of that attitude and it probably seemed completely natural to them that Dell would want its own name on the front of a keyboard actually made by IBM or Lexmark.
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
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Offline ander

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 01 September 2018, 05:05:41 »
Lexmark was 90% or more dependent in IBM as a customer. Only 10% or less of Lexmark's revenue came from elsewhere...

But that's exactly what I didn't get about it: Why would you go selling your major customer's invention to people who (presumably) competed with them?

This is probably why these re-badges were okay because they never threatened IBM in any way and they had cross-licensing agreements that may have allowed for all of this.

I can only assume buckling springs were, by then, considered old technology. Somehow I can't imagine IBM would've gone along with such a thing before 1990.


Also in those days it seemed much more important that everything sitting on your desk have the same brand and companies sold the packages that way... IBM was the king of that attitude and it probably seemed completely natural to them that Dell would want its own name on the front of a keyboard actually made by IBM or Lexmark.

But would that make it okay for Lexmark to produce and sell a keeb that, but for its logo, was identical to a product IBM had itself designed and become famous for?

Maybe so many people had copied the Model M's general appearance by then that IBM threw up its hands and no longer cared how the clones worked. I can hear guys in white shirts saying, "We have bigger fish to fry." That's my theory, anyway.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 04 September 2018, 11:40:26 »

identical to a product IBM had itself designed and become famous for?


Lexmark itself had been spun off from IBM to manufacture peripherals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark
"It turns out that for a decade, whenever Trump wanted to get a loan, or make a deal, he would inflate the value of his real estate. For instance, suggesting that his 11,000-square foot penthouse was a 30,000-square foot penthouse.
And the attorney general of New York knew that Trump's property values were inflated because when it came time to pay taxes, Trump undervalued the very same properties.
It was all part of a very sophisticated real estate practice known as “lying.”
- Jon Stewart 2024-03-28

Offline ander

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 05 September 2018, 17:14:46 »
Lexmark itself had been spun off from IBM to manufacture peripherals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark

Right. If it were simply an IBM subsidiary, it'd make a bit more sense (though I still don't know why IBM would want to equip competing PC makers with keebs identical to their own famous ones). But it didn't become Lexmark till IBM sold off their keeb division.

And yet, it's not like IBM to be vague about these things. I'm guessing they specifically included the right to produce buckling-spring boards as part of the deal. By then, silent dome/membrane boards had probably made clicky-clacky BS boards seem old and quaint, causing IBM to consider them obsolete technology. Sadly ironic, considering how timeless they've proven to be.

I often think how great it'd be if we could get someone on here who worked for IBM, in a keyboard-related capacity, during the '80s and/or '90s, so we could ask them a bunch of questions about keyboard history. Has that ever happened?
« Last Edit: Wed, 05 September 2018, 17:17:03 by ander »
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Offline laxfan91

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 05 September 2018, 22:22:04 »
I wonder if Unicomp's management would grant an interview regarding this to geekhack or an /r/MechanicalKeyboards/ AMA because Lexmark did sell the tooling and other stuff to former IBM/Lexmark employees who then founded Unicomp. Otherwise, it would make a cool LGR tech tale...IBM's slow exit from hardware manufacturing...what happened?

Offline ander

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 05 September 2018, 22:52:44 »
I wonder if Unicomp's management would grant an interview regarding this to geekhack or an /r/MechanicalKeyboards/ AMA because Lexmark did sell the tooling and other stuff to former IBM/Lexmark employees who then founded Unicomp. Otherwise, it would make a cool LGR tech tale...IBM's slow exit from hardware manufacturing...what happened?

That'd sure be interesting. We should fly Chyros over there from The Netherlands. Of course he'd have to restrain his language a bit.
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Offline SamirD

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Re: [ENDED] Dell (Lexmark) Model M p/n 1397651, clean, $53.50 shipped
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 09 September 2018, 10:50:06 »
Did anyone else spot the upside down escape key and the substitute for the right ctrl as well as the space bar stab being funky?

Bonus--did anyone spot the Logitech Trackman wired?