[IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% O-Ring Mount (GB Preparation)

[Starston3]

Trying to decide like

[dyrdevil]

Paradox is cool, but I LOVE the thought and care that has gone into the reflex.  Making it like a speaker grill. Too interesting.

[1023andy]

I like paradox more

[bthezebra]

I'm good either way, paradox looks cleaner but reflex has more character. I am a pretty animated person so I lean reflex.

[Windeh]

Thanks for the enthusiasm guys!!   

Updated details section of the OP based on IC form feedback and reviewing the prototype.

• Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
• Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
• Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
• O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
• Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey & Blue Grey. For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
• Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Copper plate extras, Sandblasted
• Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with optional split backspace & stepped caps lock
• Quantity: Up to ~30 total spots
• Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
• Design: With the amount of interest, I'm looking at possibility of running both Paradox & Reflex. TBD.

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

[1023andy]

Considering all the options you are providing, I guess it will be hard to make some alps plate? I have alps skcl green but I got no keyboard to use them.

[toby]

is it just me that the design look similar to the tgr jane v2?

[funderburker]

is it just me that the design look similar to the tgr jane v2?

Quoting OP:

Not gonna pretend that the Paradox didn’t take inspiration from other keyboards. But with the 60% layout, plate mounting method, weight quantity & design, material and all of the above, I believe there are enough uniqueness that there is a place for the Paradox to exist in the MK community.

Yes, it might be similar but it's just as the man says - it's inspired by "other keyboards". IMO "Paradox" is just the right amount of acceptable and well executed inspiration. 

[otanishock]

When this goes live, I will be the #1 to join.  ) So hype for the paradox

[otanishock]

Thanks for the enthusiasm guys!!   

Updated details section of the OP based on IC form feedback and reviewing the prototype.

• Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
• Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
• Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
• O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
• Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey & Blue Grey. For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
• Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Copper plate extras, Sandblasted
• Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with split backspace
• Quantity: Up to ~30 spots
• Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
• Design: With the amount of interest, I'm looking at possibility of running both Paradox & Reflex. TBD.

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

30 spots for each board? That might be a little bit too many given the high expected prices for the boards. Planning on limiting it down as originally planned for better QC and whatnot?

[bthezebra]

Thanks for the enthusiasm guys!!   

Updated details section of the OP based on IC form feedback and reviewing the prototype.

• Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
• Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
• Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
• O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
• Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey & Blue Grey. For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
• Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Copper plate extras, Sandblasted
• Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with split backspace
• Quantity: Up to ~30 spots
• Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
• Design: With the amount of interest, I'm looking at possibility of running both Paradox & Reflex. TBD.

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

30 spots for each board? That might be a little bit too many given the high expected prices for the boards. Planning on limiting it down as originally planned for better QC and whatnot?

I read the update as 30 total boards with the possibility of both cases being a choice within their threshold.

[juaninamilli]

Will the split back space be completely fixed? No full size option?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[1023andy]

Will the split back space be completely fixed? No full size option?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Yeah, I want normal backspace too..

[forevermadrigal]

The layout is specified. Regular bs is for heathens anyway

[juaninamilli]

The layout is specified. Regular bs is for heathens anyway

I was wondering what madrigal meant... Now I know it means... Wrong!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[forevermadrigal]

The layout is specified. Regular bs is for heathens anyway

I was wondering what madrigal meant... Now I know it means... Wrong!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

You said right wrong 

[Windeh]

Thanks for the enthusiasm guys!!   

Updated details section of the OP based on IC form feedback and reviewing the prototype.

• Case: Standard configuration in 6063 aluminium, optional upgrade to 7075-T6 aluminium
• Weight: Sandblasted/Polished Brass finish options. Clear coating option for sandblasted only, as coating does not adhere well to polished brass
• Screws: YFS Grade 12.9 Alloy Steel Hex Screw
• O-Rings: Will include a few different hardness/material O-Rings
• Colour: For 6063 Aluminium - Normal Anodizing in Black, Dark Grey & Blue Grey. For 7075-T6 Aluminium - Hard Anodize in Black only. All anodizing in Matt finish only.
• Plate: Standard kit with Brass plate, optional Aluminium & Copper plate extras, Sandblasted
• Layout: 60% ANSI WKL with split backspace
• Quantity: Up to ~30 spots
• Timeline: Aiming at December / January GB
• Design: With the amount of interest, I'm looking at possibility of running both Paradox & Reflex. TBD.

Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

30 spots for each board? That might be a little bit too many given the high expected prices for the boards. Planning on limiting it down as originally planned for better QC and whatnot?

I read the update as 30 total boards with the possibility of both cases being a choice within their threshold.

This. I will not go over 30 combined spots for this GB, and that is "up to". 

Will the split back space be completely fixed? No full size option?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Will the split back space be completely fixed? No full size option?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Yeah, I want normal backspace too..

The layout is specified. Regular bs is for heathens anyway

Sorry for the confusion. Changed the details description, the Split Backspace will be an option. 

Considering all the options you are providing, I guess it will be hard to make some alps plate? I have alps skcl green but I got no keyboard to use them.

I will very likely release the blank plate file for anyone to design and cut their own plates. I do have plans to design an alps 60% plate, however not very familiar with their stabilizer design, so will not be available soon.

[juaninamilli]

Aye!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[otanishock]

Any rough idea on manufacturer/pricing yet? I'd rather see have it pricey to the max but with top notch quality (with the mentality of a real 60% endgame) than a mid tier $350 ish kinda board.

[Windeh]

Any rough idea on manufacturer/pricing yet? I'd rather see have it pricey to the max but with top notch quality (with the mentality of a real 60% endgame) than a mid tier $350 ish kinda board.

The price is still going to be $450+ due to the complex design, no way around the CNC machine time.

As mentioned before, there is anodizing consistency concerns for the 7 series aluminium, even for normal anodizing as can be seen in the Lunar 65 group buy. If you are ok with the risk, I may be able to arrange for the finish you want.

Not everyone values the material as much as the surface finish, so I'm offering options for most people to find their preference.

The vision for both Paradox & Reflex as endgame 60% has not changed.

[matrixzj]

for price 450 usd , is it for Alu 7 series or 7 Series?

[Windeh]

for price 450 usd , is it for Alu 7 series or 7 Series?

Final GB pricing to be determined. The $450+ figure is to give potential GB participants an idea on where the pricing likely falls and not have sticker shock when the actual price is announced.

There are not much difference in terms of cost between 7 & 6 series aluminium, however there will be some additional cost for the Hard Anodizing.

[otanishock]

Lets do this. I'm super pumped!!! Low moq, high price but top notch end game material/quality is dopeee. What is the next plan on your timeline? Any word about manufacturer yet?

[vikipedeer]

450$ seems reasonble on the Reflex, but Paradox seems tad bit too simple for the price point(but again I can't really judge this bc I have no experience on manufacturing cost), still super pumped on the GB though!

[bdkrzy]

450$ seems reasonble on the Reflex, but Paradox seems tad bit too simple for the price point(but again I can't really judge this bc I have no experience on manufacturing cost), still super pumped on the GB though!

Could use some curve edges like what they did with dolphin, that could be interesting 

[Windeh]

Lets do this. I'm super pumped!!! Low moq, high price but top notch end game material/quality is dopeee. What is the next plan on your timeline? Any word about manufacturer yet?

Thanks for the support!

currently I'm going through the prototypes, trying to find any weaknesses in the design that needs to be refined further, and optimize the machine-ability somewhat.

At this stage the design is almost final, but will use the board for one more week as a daily to really get a feel for the board.


To do list:

• Refine current design
• Send out RFQ to factories for Master Sample & order in GB quantity
• Order a set of Master Samples in raw, as-machined finish for tolerance QC & anodizing color samples
• Refine anodizing color
• Determine final options & pricing
• ...
• ...
• Group Buy Start!

450$ seems reasonble on the Reflex, but Paradox seems tad bit too simple for the price point(but again I can't really judge this bc I have no experience on manufacturing cost), still super pumped on the GB though!

450$ seems reasonble on the Reflex, but Paradox seems tad bit too simple for the price point(but again I can't really judge this bc I have no experience on manufacturing cost), still super pumped on the GB though!

Could use some curve edges like what they did with dolphin, that could be interesting 

You would think that the Paradox would be cheap to machine due to its exterior simplicity... which is true for the aluminium bottom relative to the Reflex. HOWEVER!! The weight of the Paradox is actually super expensive to machine compared with the weight in the Reflex due to its length, many angles and chamfers, cutout for the USB Port, tolerance requirements and the fact that its machined from brass...




So both designs actually does works out very close to each other in machining costs... 

   

[otanishock]

Oh my god that weight design is exotic af... Also sent you a pm's

[vikipedeer]

Now that I see the size and complexity of that brass weight, 450$ is totally justified now lol

[airlangga07]

that anodizing look very cleannn!!! I am excited to join!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[otanishock]

Will you provide a sample pic of different weight finish (polish/coating/sandblast etc.) maybe before GB? Also is it possible to take a look at different color option for the case?

[juaninamilli]

Will you provide a sample pic of different weight finish (polish/coating/sandblast etc.) maybe before GB? Also is it possible to take a look at different color option for the case?

There are already a few other boards that can be used for comparison. Singa comes to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

[Windeh]

that anodizing look very cleannn!!! I am excited to join!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure which photo you were looking at, but if it was for the weight in this page that was not anodizing!!

Will you provide a sample pic of different weight finish (polish/coating/sandblast etc.) maybe before GB? Also is it possible to take a look at different color option for the case?

All weight will be sandblasted, with only the exposed face of the weight polished if chosen. Clear coating will add a slight gloss to the sandblasted surface, but the brass sandblasted effect will show through per the Reflex prototype.

As polishing is done by hand, there will be visible micro-scratches if viewed very closely at certain light angles. This is in contrast with the PVD Coating where it forms a flawless finish, when new.

Anodizing color sample photos will be shown when received, however we are limited to the accuracy of our camera and monitors. I will ultimately make the call for approval of the colors.

[otanishock]

that anodizing look very cleannn!!! I am excited to join!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure which photo you were looking at, but if it was for the weight in this page that was not anodizing!!

Will you provide a sample pic of different weight finish (polish/coating/sandblast etc.) maybe before GB? Also is it possible to take a look at different color option for the case?

All weight will be sandblasted, with only the exposed face of the weight polished if chosen. Clear coating will add a slight gloss to the sandblasted surface, but the brass sandblasted effect will show through per the Reflex prototype.

As polishing is done by hand, there will be visible micro-scratches if viewed very closely at certain light angles. This is in contrast with the PVD Coating where it forms a flawless finish, when new.

Anodizing color sample photos will be shown when received, however we are limited to the accuracy of our camera and monitors. I will ultimately make the call for approval of the colors.

So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?

[Windeh]

So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?

I will not be offering PVD for this GB. Its use in our hobby as an aesthetic coating does not age well.

[vikipedeer]

Another question, I see that you haven't really set on which board will make it to the GB stage, or are you going to be opening for both of them?

[otanishock]

So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?

I will not be offering PVD for this GB. Its use in our hobby as an aesthetic coating does not age well.

I do agree as well. Also never experience with polished weight before, but I heard they are more susceptible to scratches right?

[Windeh]

Another question, I see that you haven't really set on which board will make it to the GB stage, or are you going to be opening for both of them?

I am looking at that possibility. As the IC form shows that the interest for both designs are very close, with a slight favor to Paradox, I hope to not have to disappoint half of the IC participants.

So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?

I will not be offering PVD for this GB. Its use in our hobby as an aesthetic coating does not age well.

I do agree as well. Also never experience with polished weight before, but I heard they are more susceptible to scratches right?

All polished/reflective surfaces show scratches quite easily. However in contrast to PVD coating, you can re-polish polished surfaces relatively easily with commercially available polishing compounds.

[bthezebra]

Another question, I see that you haven't really set on which board will make it to the GB stage, or are you going to be opening for both of them?

I am looking at that possibility. As the IC form shows that the interest for both designs are very close, with a slight favor to Paradox, I hope to not have to disappoint half of the IC participants.

So PVD coating is not available for the weight right?

I will not be offering PVD for this GB. Its use in our hobby as an aesthetic coating does not age well.

I do agree as well. Also never experience with polished weight before, but I heard they are more susceptible to scratches right?

All polished/reflective surfaces show scratches quite easily. However in contrast to PVD coating, you can re-polish polished surfaces relatively easily with commercially available polishing compounds.

I will buy in no matter which one you choose, I am most interested in feel.

[airlangga07]

that anodizing look very cleannn!!! I am excited to join!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure which photo you were looking at, but if it was for the weight in this page that was not anodizing!!

Apologize for the use of wrong term as I really unfamiliar with it! Its just that mirror finish and the overall design is really nice!

[1023andy]

Can you show us the paradox prototype?

[Windeh]

Sorry, thought I had posted them already...   




Expend below for more.

More

O-Ring Post - Snug fit


Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness


Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...

This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...

The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).

[vikipedeer]

Sorry, thought I had posted them already...   

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Expend below for more.

More

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)

Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)

Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)

This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...

The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).

Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?

[1023andy]

Sorry, thought I had posted them already...   

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Expend below for more.

More

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)

Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)

Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)

This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...

The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).

Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?

I think he said normal anodizing in black, dark grey, and blue grey for 6063, and hard coat anodizing in black for 7075

[otanishock]

Maybe change the way the screws are mounted at the bottom? It feels like as of the current state, they don't look very sleek to me. But that is just minor minor detail, definitely not a big deal at all.

[1023andy]

Maybe change the way the screws are mounted at the bottom? It feels like as of the current state, they don't look very sleek to me. But that is just minor minor detail, definitely not a big deal at all.
(Attachment Link)

I think the screw doesn't really matter on black or grey but in blue grey it may not look so great

[1023andy]

Sorry, thought I had posted them already...   

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Expend below for more.

More

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)

Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)

Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)

This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...

The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).

The brass weight of paradox is polished right?

[Windeh]

Maybe change the way the screws are mounted at the bottom? It feels like as of the current state, they don't look very sleek to me. But that is just minor minor detail, definitely not a big deal at all.
(Attachment Link)

There will be no changes to the design of the boards other then what is necessary from reviewing the prototype. There will be additional fasteners added to the 4 corners for tighter fitment between the top and bottom piece.

All screw are flush with the bottom face, with no protrusion if you slide your finger over them. I try to maintain the same length screws so people don't damage something using the wrong length screw, and avoid deep screw holes for overall easier assembly.

Lastly, I'm providing some of the best fasteners around, don't want to hide it. 

Feel free to buy some Stainless Steel screws as I use standard M3 countersunk, however I'm happy with the current design overall.

[Windeh]

Sorry, thought I had posted them already...   

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Expend below for more.

More

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)

Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)

Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)

This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...

The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).

The brass weight of paradox is polished right?

The Paradox prototype has polished 316 Stainless Steel weights, however it will not be offered in the group buy as SS wasn't nearly as popular as Brass in the IC Form.

[Windeh]

Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?

Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?

I think he said normal anodizing in black, dark grey, and blue grey for 6063, and hard coat anodizing in black for 7075

There may be a mystery color chosen closer to the GB, as what we have now, although covers 90% of the IC participants, seems a little monotone...

[Mcnos]

Oh, it all looks dope man. Love the Paradox, wished there was a full build picture with cherry profile caps.