Author Topic: GH60-Alps discussion  (Read 20970 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline funkymeeba

  • CRUMPULAR
  • Posts: 404
  • Location: Colorado
  • WEST SHINJUKU PLANTING TUNE
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 13:25:00 »
I disagree. We want variety, and I think the ALPS fan club is tired of being left out of the fun. :D Either way, the ALPS one isn't going to be ready for some time, so it doesn't hurt to at least get some preparation for it done.
Quote
17:15 < vun> these are the healthiest crisps I've ever come across
17:16 < vun> mostly because I can't get the bag open

meebcats - my bad music

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 15:36:30 »
I disagree. We want variety, and I think the ALPS fan club is tired of being left out of the fun. :D Either way, the ALPS one isn't going to be ready for some time, so it doesn't hurt to at least get some preparation for it done.
Sorry, I do disagree too.
What should I do with my alps switches? (don't say!!!)  :D

Question: I'm used to use bended wire + fixation points as stabilizers, never used this cherry stabilizer.

Which one should I use? I did never saw one alps stabilizer ...
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1700
  • Location: South Korea
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 15:39:14 »
umm, i don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but why don't we get the MX version of the board done and out the door before we try to make another variant mmk? :)

I don't see this affecting the MX group buy in anyway so I don't see a problem.

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 18:46:31 »
in that case, the first thing you'll want to do is get a datasheet for and source the stabilizers that matias is using in his new boards. those seem to be the best alps stabs. while he's gotten us some really nice new switches, we still have to solve the stabilizer problem for diy alps boards.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 19:50:06 »
in that case, the first thing you'll want to do is get a datasheet for and source the stabilizers that matias is using in his new boards. those seem to be the best alps stabs. while he's gotten us some really nice new switches, we still have to solve the stabilizer problem for diy alps boards.
Can't we use bended wire with fixation clips like they did into the old keyboards? The major problem I see in this approach is that it requires a plate to make the holes to the fixation clips ...




Stabilizer Spring, easy to be done at home with one wire bender


2x WASD Stabilizer Clip, can be done at home with bended wire too
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 March 2013, 20:21:47 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline Matt3o

  • -[_]-
  • ** Robot Emeritus
  • Posts: 3500
  • Location: Italy
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 March 2013, 03:42:37 by Matt3o »

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1700
  • Location: South Korea
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 03:54:46 »
in that case, the first thing you'll want to do is get a datasheet for and source the stabilizers that matias is using in his new boards. those seem to be the best alps stabs. while he's gotten us some really nice new switches, we still have to solve the stabilizer problem for diy alps boards.
Can't we use bended wire with fixation clips like they did into the old keyboards? The major problem I see in this approach is that it requires a plate to make the holes to the fixation clips ...

Show Image


Show Image

Stabilizer Spring, easy to be done at home with one wire bender

Show Image

2x WASD Stabilizer Clip, can be done at home with bended wire too

I dunno about the Matias switch but as far as I know all alps are plate mounted. So plates will be required. Besides the plate is quite easy to make.

We could make the GH60 Plate/PCB accept a Dell 101W layout. They're relatively easy to acquire for pretty cheap. You can harvest the stabs and key caps which is a standard 1.25 mod ANSI layout.

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #57 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 06:05:10 »
i can already see a couple of problems here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88005189@N05/8052662291/in/photostream/

it looks like matias stabilize inserts are rotated alps. we need to confirm that SP can mold caps with the same fixation orientation AND make sure we can sure source these inserts. alternatively, we're going to have to make our own inserts to our own specs. we could, for example, have SP make us caps with center alps mount but cherry stabilizer mounts and then the entirety of a costar style stabilizer...

hmmm

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Matt3o

  • -[_]-
  • ** Robot Emeritus
  • Posts: 3500
  • Location: Italy
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #58 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 06:37:11 »
we could, for example, have SP make us caps with center alps mount but cherry stabilizer mounts and then the entirety of a costar style stabilizer...

this!

I'm waiting for complete stats from SP this week (I gave Mel quite a bit of work to do :P).

Offline pasph

  • Posts: 1059
  • Location: Italy
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 07:39:34 »
although I don't understand this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88005189@N05/8052667818/in/photostream/

those are the plastic clips, snap mounted on the plate, where are hooked the stabilizers


http://www.flickr.com/photos/88005189@N05/8052662455/in/photostream/

In the old alps kb the wire was bent outward and not inward
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 March 2013, 07:43:17 by pasph »
"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life"

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 11:14:52 »
I dunno about the Matias switch but as far as I know all alps are plate mounted. So plates will be required. Besides the plate is quite easy to make.
At here, south america, it is expensive - the metal is cheap, we do have lots and lots of minerals but the service price make it uncompetitive.
I saw at the GH60 GB a plate for 16 bucks, I think that jdcarpe is organizing the GB. We can ask him about where he is cutting his plate (BTW: it's aluminum or stainless steel?)

We could make the GH60 Plate/PCB accept a Dell 101W layout. They're relatively easy to acquire for pretty cheap. You can harvest the stabs and key caps which is a standard 1.25 mod ANSI layout.
Can be one dell 102w? I do have one at hand.
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 March 2013, 11:35:48 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline jdcarpe

  • Literally geekhack
  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8572
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • God mode active
GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 12:30:20 »
At here, south america, it is expensive - the metal is cheap, we do have lots and lots of minerals but the service price make it uncompetitive.
I saw at the GH60 GB a plate for 16 bucks, I think that jdcarpe is organizing the GB. We can ask him about where he is cutting his plate (BTW: it's aluminum or stainless steel?)

WFD is getting the plates made somewhere, I'm not sure where. They are stainless steel. :)

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #62 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 13:13:30 »
WFD is getting the plates made somewhere, I'm not sure where. They are stainless steel. :)
Awesome!!!
Do you it's thickness? I didn't saw it specified there ...
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline jdcarpe

  • Literally geekhack
  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8572
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • God mode active
GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #63 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 13:19:46 »
They are 16-gauge, or 0.0625" thick.

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #64 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 13:34:01 »
They are 16-gauge, or 0.0625" thick.
Goooosh, geeeeeeeeee
I hate these imperial metrics, I can't even imagine what's without a calculator ...
1.5875 millimeters ???

I did some research and until so far the best reference for ALPs switches seems to be the DK wiki. I got one Chinese datasheet there but the most important part seems to be the part that Matt3o did posted. (Thanks Matt3o!!!)

And seems that ALPs are not selling them anymore - at least they are not listing them on his catalog anymore ...

Right now I'm watching some youtube videos to get more experience on Kicad.
I created my alps switch module there but I can't believe that I'll have to change all switches, one by one, someone should have thought about some easier way to change multiple parts ...
As I imagined: someone thought about changing multiple parts, awesome!
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 March 2013, 15:22:08 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1700
  • Location: South Korea
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 15:36:04 »
Yes Dell 102W would work as well. It's just a ISO version of the 101W.

And ALPS went out of business a loooong time ago. Matias is the only one that sort of revived the alps switch. I believe you can just buy their switches from either their website (can't find it) or from 7bit at Deskthority.

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #66 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 19:47:26 »
i assert that any board designed from scratch have new stock availability of everything in the BOM. no harvesting to build an alps-gh60. i'd rather pay for the tooling to get center-alps/side MX mount caps made by SP than give out a BOM that requires buying a dell at101w and stripping it down to bare board before constructing :P

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #67 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 19:55:30 »
The main change was done.
Now I do need to re-route everything, I'm still looking for the best way to re-route - back to youtube more one time ...
BTW: The final product will be slightly different from the original GH60 rev b.


The ALPS switch footprint (SKCM).


The unfinished GH60 Alps PCB

We still have to decide which kind of stabilizers we are going to use.

I'm fond to bended wire - it can be done at home without much fuzz but we need to decide together right?

Any other option guys???
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 March 2013, 20:05:35 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1700
  • Location: South Korea
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 19:58:35 »
i assert that any board designed from scratch have new stock availability of everything in the BOM. no harvesting to build an alps-gh60. i'd rather pay for the tooling to get center-alps/side MX mount caps made by SP than give out a BOM that requires buying a dell at101w and stripping it down to bare board before constructing :P

What is BOM?

So you want to pay the $2500 tooling cost of a space bar? Be my guest.

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 20:02:59 »
i assert that any board designed from scratch have new stock availability of everything in the BOM. no harvesting to build an alps-gh60. i'd rather pay for the tooling to get center-alps/side MX mount caps made by SP than give out a BOM that requires buying a dell at101w and stripping it down to bare board before constructing :P
I'm not sure but I heard somewhere here that the Mathias switches are hole compatible.
IF they are really compatible no big deal - but if they aren't I do agree with you.
However we are not doing this thinking on a GB. The main  board is the Komar's GH60 rev b, this one here is just one free exercise (IMHO).

BOM means "bill of materials"
The parts that you need to buy ...
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 20:05:22 »
if we stick with alps-mount for the stabilizers, the only option we have is to source stabilizers from matias. the positives of doing this is that we could also source caps from matias, which would likely be slightly cheaper than custom runs of SP caps. however, matias has not made it clear whether he even has enough caps to sell them a la carte, and i'm hesitant to ask him to redirect more parts-inventory than he already has to us.

imo, there's such a paucity of good old-stock alps keys that i'd rather just have new keysets made with hybrid alps/MX mounting. costar stabilizers in MX-mount are easy and cheap to source via WASD, and it's possible that SP's tooling is modular enough that they could make runs of full MX and Alps/MX sets in quick succession without having to spend a lot of operator time messing around with tooling, so we might be able to mix alps/mx sets in with full mx production runs at a slight discount.

i believe matt3o said he's started inquiring about this with SP, so we'll probably have some answers soon..

one last thing to keep in mind is that PCB-mount stabilizers are _not_ an option with new-stock alps-style switches, as they have no purely mechanical fixation mechanism to the pcb like mx switches do. alps switches have to be plated, period.

eta: yes, i'm thinking larger-scale. if you only want to run off a few boards, go for it. at101ws are common enough that 5-10 one-offs could probably be built for not too much money. imo though, it's not worth the effort to do all the board design unless you can order and kit in volume.
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 March 2013, 20:09:03 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 21:09:22 »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline laffindude

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1496
  • ( ̽ ˳)
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 05:53:25 »
How much interest do you think GH60Alps have? If it is nearing 50, I can just have them made when I have stuff made for my groupbuy. We should be able to get Matias style stabilizers and keycaps too.
*friend recommend not using XM switches with these caps. Not sure if I can share the exact reason, but let's just say XM is slightly out of spec and may break keycap stems.

Offline Matt3o

  • -[_]-
  • ** Robot Emeritus
  • Posts: 3500
  • Location: Italy
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 06:05:43 »
I'm also designing a 65% with alps so there might be some interest in the keycaps with both 60 and 65 layouts. Don't know about pcb, plates and so on

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 08:24:03 »
How much interest do you think GH60Alps have? If it is nearing 50, I can just have them made when I have stuff made for my groupbuy. We should be able to get Matias style stabilizers and keycaps too.
*friend recommend not using XM switches with these caps. Not sure if I can share the exact reason, but let's just say XM is slightly out of spec and may break keycap stems.
personally, i'm not crazy about the XM switches anyway (although alaricljs says that swapping the XM GREEN springs into the matias clears feels particularly good; he's weird)
« Last Edit: Mon, 25 March 2013, 08:44:13 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline alaricljs

  • I be WOT'ing all day...
  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3708
  • Location: NE US
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 08:43:51 »
Hey man... Matias' springs are too stiff :P
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 09:04:48 »
How much interest do you think GH60Alps have? If it is nearing 50, I can just have them made when I have stuff made for my groupbuy. We should be able to get Matias style stabilizers and keycaps too.
We need to run one interest check to see it.
Anyone? Please?

*friend recommend not using XM switches with these caps. Not sure if I can share the exact reason, but let's just say XM is slightly out of spec and may break keycap stems.
Sorry, XM switches?? I'm kinda new in the block ...
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline laffindude

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1496
  • ( ̽ ˳)
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 12:17:02 »
XM is another maker for Alps compatible switches.

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 14:59:36 »
Hey man... Matias' springs are too stiff :P
MUST RESIST

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline AKIMbO

  • HHKBro
  • Posts: 1772
  • Location: Tennessee
  • Know Topre, Know Peace. No Topre, No Peace.
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #79 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 17:09:49 »
Is this actually happening?  Don't get my hopes up....but for reals for reals....is this happening?!
Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1700
  • Location: South Korea
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 21:06:18 »
I really think it will happen. It is the main reason I didn't participate in the GH60 group buy.
Especially with the GH60 on the way, an alps version really shouldn't be too difficult. It's just stabilizers and key caps that's problematic so far.

Offline hashbaz

  • Grand Moderatrix and Protector of the Realm
  • * Lead Moderator
  • Posts: 5038
  • Location: SF Bae Area
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 21:57:45 »
I'm gonna go ahead and be that guy who tries to get his private dream keyboard shoehorned into a project.

Any chance of making something that is compatible with Monterey blue Alps-alike switches?  A proper modern layout, plate-mounted keyboard with those babies would be amazing.

Offline pasph

  • Posts: 1059
  • Location: Italy
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 06:31:45 »
Any chance of making something that is compatible with Monterey blue Alps-alike switches?  A proper modern layout, plate-mounted keyboard with those babies would be amazing.

"The keycaps are compatible with Alps CM but the switch has a different mounting hole and pin layout"
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Monterey_switch
"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life"

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 06:34:23 »
ie, someone needs to desolder one and take measurements to make sure you can fit the holes and traces in with the standard alps pinout.

that someone may very well be you, hashbaz >:D

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Matt3o

  • -[_]-
  • ** Robot Emeritus
  • Posts: 3500
  • Location: Italy
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 06:45:34 »
I have one desoldered. pinout seems completely different to me. can take pictures if needed.

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 08:14:37 »
I have one desoldered. pinout seems completely different to me. can take pictures if needed.
Please, just to be sure, pictures are always good.
I think I do have a hundred at here, I got them from one old Chicony 5181 - someone said it has monterey's switches. To be honesty I don't recognize these switches ...
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14242
  • Location: CT, USA
  • Rich Homie Huang.
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 08:47:48 »
I have one desoldered. pinout seems completely different to me. can take pictures if needed.
Please, just to be sure, pictures are always good.
I think I do have a hundred at here, I got them from one old Chicony 5181 - someone said it has monterey's switches. To be honesty I don't recognize these switches ...

If you check here, you might be able to ID your mystery switches. My try bag had monterey blues in it and I included pictures.
Please check out TactileZine.com!

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 09:55:28 »
If you check here, you might be able to ID your mystery switches. My try bag had monterey blues in it and I included pictures.
Damm, by your pictures it seems to be "Fake Monterey MX".

BTW thanks by the link! Awesome reference!
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline ishumprod

  • Posts: 138
  • Location: swizerland
home-made TKL rubber dome keyboard !

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14242
  • Location: CT, USA
  • Rich Homie Huang.
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 16:18:38 »
If you check here, you might be able to ID your mystery switches. My try bag had monterey blues in it and I included pictures.
Damm, by your pictures it seems to be "Fake Monterey MX".

BTW thanks by the link! Awesome reference!

Thanks, glad you found it useful. Mr. Interface did those pics so I can't take credit for the pictures. But it was all me for the writeup :P
Please check out TactileZine.com!

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #90 on: Wed, 27 March 2013, 17:15:54 »
err, please, could you guys summarize what we are waiting for?
I'm the new guy in the block so I'm kinda on my toes yet ...
 :)
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline TheQsanity

  • Posts: 1165
  • SmallFry Lovin'
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #91 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 00:10:24 »
Anyone set-in in trying to put together a GH60-Alps?
SmallFry! <3

Offline laffindude

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1496
  • ( ̽ ˳)
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #92 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:49:33 »
err, please, could you guys summarize what we are waiting for?
I'm the new guy in the block so I'm kinda on my toes yet ...
 :)
There are a few minor roadblocks. Since plate is a requirement with Alps, we need to have plates made. However, not everyone will agree on the layout, so it may be expensive.
Then we need to decide on which stabilizer to use. We will probably use wire stabilizers (AKA Costar style), but do we want to use MX style stabilizer inserts or Alps style?
Then we need to consider what keycaps we're going to use. It needs to fit the layout + stabilizer choice.

We need to balance customization with what can be easily sourced. I mean, if most people are happy with standard 61key ANSI, I can probably bang out a kit for 60-65 USD for PCB+plate+stabilizers+keycaps.
Edit: *above cost calculated @ 50PCB +plates.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:51:34 by laffindude »

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #93 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:43:40 »
60-65 sounds really low. do you have a fab in mind that will pick-and-place for that cheap @ 50 units? if so, let komar and i know asap! :)

keep in mind that it's a 2-layer board..

also, we're waiting to see what kind of caps SP can provide us. if they can provide caps that are compatible mount-wise with matias' caps, and we can source plenty of matias-style stabilizers, then it's just down to plate design, pcb design and fab, which isn't bad at all.

that said, it would be nice to keep this pcb design in sync with komar's MX design, including physical compatibility with any modules that gets designed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:46:05 by mkawa »

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline AKIMbO

  • HHKBro
  • Posts: 1772
  • Location: Tennessee
  • Know Topre, Know Peace. No Topre, No Peace.
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #94 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:44:41 »
The layout should be 1.5 ANSI...almost all ALPs boards come with 1.5 ANSI mods.  The enter key will be the hardest to source for sure.  There are a plethora of cheap AT101's on ebay which one could harvest caps from.  Stabilizers will be trickier since I've seen several different types on different ALPs boards before (ie. ALPs stabilizer inserts seem to be their own beast). 

My 2 cents.
Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)

Offline llovro

  • Posts: 221
  • Location: Slovenia
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #95 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 11:27:02 »
If we would let SP make the keycaps, the biggest problem would be what color would keycaps be? CCnG? Dolch? Beige?

Offline Matt3o

  • -[_]-
  • ** Robot Emeritus
  • Posts: 3500
  • Location: Italy
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #96 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 14:30:17 »
SP replied to my email.

They already have tooling for all keys up to 1.75u. We would need to buy the stem-tooling for all stabilized keys, spacebars included. This is true for both DSA and DCS families and both ABS and PBT.

Mounting points for the stabilizers could have standard MX stems, so you would end up with 1 centered ALPS stem for the switch and 2 side MX stems for the stabilizers. This solution should be less expensive than a full alps stemmed version.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 17:51:24 by Matt3o »

Offline agodinhost

  • Posts: 760
  • Location: Brazil, RJ
  • Soylent green is people ...
    • Dr Ian O Xaman
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #97 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 14:54:52 »
Footprint????
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline mkawa

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 6454
  • (ツ)@@@. crankypants
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #98 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 17:41:18 »
SP replied to my email.

They already have tooling for all keys up to 1.75u. We would need to buy the stem-tooling for all stabilized keys, spacebars included. This is true for both DSA and DCS families and both ABS and PBT.

Mounting points for the stabilizers could have standard MX stems, so you would end up with 1 centered ALPS stem for the switch and 2 side stems for the stabilizers. This solution should be less expensive than a full alps stemmed version.
BAM we're in business folks

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline calavera

  • Posts: 1700
  • Location: South Korea
Re: GH60-Alps discussion
« Reply #99 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 17:46:24 »
So if we go with MX stem mounts for the stabilizers, we don't need to pay for tooling?