[IC] Laser GMK - 80's & Cyberpunk (LIVE)

[Vigrith]

No, realistically, everyone is quite right to doubt that enough people care about JIS support to justify the extra cost. I don’t think the cost of 4–5 caps would make or break the kit for many people but a dozen might. FWIW though, JIS actually only uses 1× keys for the alphas whereas supporting US ANSI with (frankly arbitrary) Japanese sub‐legends may require an extra 1.5× key (the pipe key with ‘Mu’ sub‐legend) if GMK doesn’t already have the mold.

I appreciate the information and I'm sure others do as well - I'm really not aware of what the JIS layouts look like, I've never looked into it and the only one I've studied a little has been the Realforce 91U which was recently on Massdrop and which I also purchased. Realistically the added JIS keys would probably not attract that many people but it'd still be cool and I definitely see why you would mention it in the first place, my only concern is that the kit will already be quite expensive probably so even something as low as like $3-5 for the added support might turn off some of the potential buyers.

Complicated business!

[swangful]

Yeeee gaijin all the way! I love everything about this set. MAKE IT HAPPEN FASTER PLEASE

EDIT: Also realistically, how fast can this GB happen?

[ullr]

No, realistically, everyone is quite right to doubt that enough people care about JIS support to justify the extra cost. I don’t think the cost of 4–5 caps would make or break the kit for many people but a dozen might. FWIW though, JIS actually only uses 1× keys for the alphas whereas supporting US ANSI with (frankly arbitrary) Japanese sub‐legends may require an extra 1.5× key (the pipe key with ‘Mu’ sub‐legend) if GMK doesn’t already have the mold.

I appreciate the information and I'm sure others do as well - I'm really not aware of what the JIS layouts look like, I've never looked into it and the only one I've studied a little has been the Realforce 91U which was recently on Massdrop and which I also purchased. Realistically the added JIS keys would probably not attract that many people but it'd still be cool and I definitely see why you would mention it in the first place, my only concern is that the kit will already be quite expensive probably so even something as low as like $3-5 for the added support might turn off some of the potential buyers.

Complicated business!

Unfortunately you’re one of the few people who does own a JIS board. I’m typing on one and I plan on building a 60% with at least the top four rows of the JIS layout (PCB support is also regrettably spotty). Japanese aside, if you get creative with the layout having three extra alpha keys is nice for typing English too!

Here’s my half hearted suggestion for supporting JIS cheaply in the likely event that JP sub‐legends are decided on. ...But I think it’s probably safe to say I’ll be skipping the “Japanese” kit for this set, unfortunately. Though I might buy it just for the resale value 

[_rubik]

No, realistically, everyone is quite right to doubt that enough people care about JIS support to justify the extra cost. I don’t think the cost of 4–5 caps would make or break the kit for many people but a dozen might. FWIW though, JIS actually only uses 1× keys for the alphas whereas supporting US ANSI with (frankly arbitrary) Japanese sub‐legends may require an extra 1.5× key (the pipe key with ‘Mu’ sub‐legend) if GMK doesn’t already have the mold.

I appreciate the information and I'm sure others do as well - I'm really not aware of what the JIS layouts look like, I've never looked into it and the only one I've studied a little has been the Realforce 91U which was recently on Massdrop and which I also purchased. Realistically the added JIS keys would probably not attract that many people but it'd still be cool and I definitely see why you would mention it in the first place, my only concern is that the kit will already be quite expensive probably so even something as low as like $3-5 for the added support might turn off some of the potential buyers.

Complicated business!

Unfortunately you’re one of the few people who does own a JIS board. I’m typing on one and I plan on building a 60% with at least the top four rows of the JIS layout (PCB support is also regrettably spotty). Japanese aside, if you get creative with the layout having three extra alpha keys is nice for typing English too!

Here’s my half hearted suggestion for supporting JIS cheaply in the likely event that JP sub‐legends are decided on. ...But I think it’s probably safe to say I’ll be skipping the “Japanese” kit for this set, unfortunately. Though I might buy it just for the resale value 

Show Image

I am actually very disheartened that this set doesn't support JIS layouts. I would like to suggest an R4 JIS Kit, and would be happy to help design that. Like mentioned above, the extra 5 or so keys really wouldn't break the bank, and should be put into a separate kit for those of us who want it.

... honestly it's just silly to have a hiragana kit, but not actually give it JIS functionality.  At this point it's just for people who only want the aesthetic.

[ullr]

No, realistically, everyone is quite right to doubt that enough people care about JIS support to justify the extra cost. I don’t think the cost of 4–5 caps would make or break the kit for many people but a dozen might. FWIW though, JIS actually only uses 1× keys for the alphas whereas supporting US ANSI with (frankly arbitrary) Japanese sub‐legends may require an extra 1.5× key (the pipe key with ‘Mu’ sub‐legend) if GMK doesn’t already have the mold.

I appreciate the information and I'm sure others do as well - I'm really not aware of what the JIS layouts look like, I've never looked into it and the only one I've studied a little has been the Realforce 91U which was recently on Massdrop and which I also purchased. Realistically the added JIS keys would probably not attract that many people but it'd still be cool and I definitely see why you would mention it in the first place, my only concern is that the kit will already be quite expensive probably so even something as low as like $3-5 for the added support might turn off some of the potential buyers.

Complicated business!

Unfortunately you’re one of the few people who does own a JIS board. I’m typing on one and I plan on building a 60% with at least the top four rows of the JIS layout (PCB support is also regrettably spotty). Japanese aside, if you get creative with the layout having three extra alpha keys is nice for typing English too!

Here’s my half hearted suggestion for supporting JIS cheaply in the likely event that JP sub‐legends are decided on. ...But I think it’s probably safe to say I’ll be skipping the “Japanese” kit for this set, unfortunately. Though I might buy it just for the resale value 

Show Image

I am actually very disheartened that this set doesn't support JIS layouts. I would like to suggest an R1 JIS Kit, and would be happy to help design that. Like mentioned above, the extra 5 or so keys really wouldn't break the bank, and should be put into a separate kit for those of us who want it.

... honestly it's just silly to have a hiragana kit, but not actually give it JIS functionality.  At this point it's just for people who only want the aesthetic.

My sentiments exactly. The only problem is, it would require five additional keys only if the hiragana‐only legends win. Most Latin punctuation characters are in different positions on the JIS layout coming from US ANSI, so having Latin legends as well would necessitate at least fifteen additional keys to support JIS.

[digisax]

No, realistically, everyone is quite right to doubt that enough people care about JIS support to justify the extra cost. I don’t think the cost of 4–5 caps would make or break the kit for many people but a dozen might. FWIW though, JIS actually only uses 1× keys for the alphas whereas supporting US ANSI with (frankly arbitrary) Japanese sub‐legends may require an extra 1.5× key (the pipe key with ‘Mu’ sub‐legend) if GMK doesn’t already have the mold.

I appreciate the information and I'm sure others do as well - I'm really not aware of what the JIS layouts look like, I've never looked into it and the only one I've studied a little has been the Realforce 91U which was recently on Massdrop and which I also purchased. Realistically the added JIS keys would probably not attract that many people but it'd still be cool and I definitely see why you would mention it in the first place, my only concern is that the kit will already be quite expensive probably so even something as low as like $3-5 for the added support might turn off some of the potential buyers.

Complicated business!

Unfortunately you’re one of the few people who does own a JIS board. I’m typing on one and I plan on building a 60% with at least the top four rows of the JIS layout (PCB support is also regrettably spotty). Japanese aside, if you get creative with the layout having three extra alpha keys is nice for typing English too!

Here’s my half hearted suggestion for supporting JIS cheaply in the likely event that JP sub‐legends are decided on. ...But I think it’s probably safe to say I’ll be skipping the “Japanese” kit for this set, unfortunately. Though I might buy it just for the resale value 

Show Image

I am actually very disheartened that this set doesn't support JIS layouts. I would like to suggest an R4 JIS Kit, and would be happy to help design that. Like mentioned above, the extra 5 or so keys really wouldn't break the bank, and should be put into a separate kit for those of us who want it.

... honestly it's just silly to have a hiragana kit, but not actually give it JIS functionality.  At this point it's just for people who only want the aesthetic.

Considering how much GMK charges for new molds, a JIS set would need a decent number of orders to really be worth it. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's unlikely.

The idea of the Hiragana kit was for the aesthetic since it works well with the 80s retrofuture/cyberpunk look, so it does make some sense not to support JIS.

[_rubik]

No, realistically, everyone is quite right to doubt that enough people care about JIS support to justify the extra cost. I don’t think the cost of 4–5 caps would make or break the kit for many people but a dozen might. FWIW though, JIS actually only uses 1× keys for the alphas whereas supporting US ANSI with (frankly arbitrary) Japanese sub‐legends may require an extra 1.5× key (the pipe key with ‘Mu’ sub‐legend) if GMK doesn’t already have the mold.

I appreciate the information and I'm sure others do as well - I'm really not aware of what the JIS layouts look like, I've never looked into it and the only one I've studied a little has been the Realforce 91U which was recently on Massdrop and which I also purchased. Realistically the added JIS keys would probably not attract that many people but it'd still be cool and I definitely see why you would mention it in the first place, my only concern is that the kit will already be quite expensive probably so even something as low as like $3-5 for the added support might turn off some of the potential buyers.

Complicated business!

Unfortunately you’re one of the few people who does own a JIS board. I’m typing on one and I plan on building a 60% with at least the top four rows of the JIS layout (PCB support is also regrettably spotty). Japanese aside, if you get creative with the layout having three extra alpha keys is nice for typing English too!

Here’s my half hearted suggestion for supporting JIS cheaply in the likely event that JP sub‐legends are decided on. ...But I think it’s probably safe to say I’ll be skipping the “Japanese” kit for this set, unfortunately. Though I might buy it just for the resale value 

Show Image

I am actually very disheartened that this set doesn't support JIS layouts. I would like to suggest an R4 JIS Kit, and would be happy to help design that. Like mentioned above, the extra 5 or so keys really wouldn't break the bank, and should be put into a separate kit for those of us who want it.

... honestly it's just silly to have a hiragana kit, but not actually give it JIS functionality.  At this point it's just for people who only want the aesthetic.

Considering how much GMK charges for new molds, a JIS set would need a decent number of orders to really be worth it. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's unlikely.

The idea of the Hiragana kit was for the aesthetic since it works well with the 80s retrofuture/cyberpunk look, so it does make some sense not to support JIS.

Ok. I can understand that. If this set doesn't get enough interest in FULL JIS support, I would at least humbly beg for R4 support. R4 on JIS layouts is mostly 1u keys, so those of us who do need to fill that row will need to buy the Planck kit just for the blank caps.

[ullr]

Considering how much GMK charges for new molds, a JIS set would need a decent number of orders to really be worth it. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it's unlikely.

The idea of the Hiragana kit was for the aesthetic since it works well with the 80s retrofuture/cyberpunk look, so it does make some sense not to support JIS.

The weird quasi‐JIS layout (stemming from DSA Otaku originally?) actually has by my count 30 keys in common with the JIS layout so running a group buy for a JIS compatible set will be a lot cheaper if this hits MOQ. A silver lining.

What makes sense from this perspective would be to throw 26 arbitrary CJKV characters on A–Z because there isn’t really a functional difference and it would be cheaper to do so and might look nicer.

Ok. I can understand that. If this set doesn't get enough interest in FULL JIS support, I would at least humbly beg for R4 support. R4 on JIS layouts is mostly 1u keys, so those of us who do need to fill that row will need to buy the Planck kit just for the blank caps.

I didn’t notice your edit before I posted. I was actually only talking about the alphas when I was going on about requisite keys, because:

• Honestly there are very few Cherry MX keyboards that support the JIS bottom row
• MiTo didn’t go with icon mods so there will be English mods anyway
• Key sizes don’t seem to be rigorously standardized (except a 2.5u spacebar which GMK can’t even make) when it comes to the JIS bottom row, and this set has R4 novelties that would work in a pinch if you find something with enough keys

[_rubik]

Ok. I can understand that. If this set doesn't get enough interest in FULL JIS support, I would at least humbly beg for R4 support. R4 on JIS layouts is mostly 1u keys, so those of us who do need to fill that row will need to buy the Planck kit just for the blank caps.

I didn’t notice your edit before I posted. I was actually only talking about the alphas when I was going on about requisite keys, because:

• Honestly there are very few Cherry MX keyboards that support the JIS bottom row
• MiTo didn’t go with icon mods so there will be English mods anyway
• Key sizes don’t seem to be rigorously standardized (except a 2.5u spacebar which GMK can’t even make) when it comes to the JIS bottom row, and this set has R4 novelties that would work in a pinch if you find something with enough keys

Well... The R4 I can mostly let go because there are a few options (blanks or novelties), but yes I do agree that the right hand alphas need some work. Proper bracket placement etc. etc. Either way, I'm happy to see there are people fighting the JIS war. So I'll stop flooding this thread.

tldr; Lets open conversation around JIS support. I understand it won't be perfect (R4 etc.), but the alphas should at least be covered... but that's just my two yen 

[megaforce]

Originally voiced my opinion on r/mk for the Gaijin set, but Hiragana is just too unique, simple, and clean to pass up. There isn't a pure Hiragana Cherry-profile set around, this would make a hell of an entrance! Double-shot at it as well!

[MiTo]

I updated the diagonal shots displaying the keycaps a little better. For some reason, I screwed up the angles when rendering for the first time and the background was showing way too much. I updated the images everywhere and the shots look standard across the Gaijin, Hybrid and Hiragana right now:

Gaijin


Hybrid


Hiragana

[smittysteve]

Originally voiced my opinion on r/mk for the Gaijin set, but Hiragana is just too unique, simple, and clean to pass up. There isn't a pure Hiragana Cherry-profile set around, this would make a hell of an entrance! Double-shot at it as well!

I'm so torn. I voted for the Gaijin too, but holy smokes, the simplicity of the Hiragana is freaking awesome!! Especially in the newest renders- that's the nuts right there.

My question is a totally practical one. I type reasonably well, but still need legends. I know, shameful, eh? But I also don't read Japanese. So for anyone in similar boat who has used Otaku, how hard is it to adjust and functionally use a set with single legends in a language other than the one I understand...??

[Vigrith]

Again, the simplicity of the mono Hiragana is so stunning and gorgeous. I really wish that'd be the option that makes it. I understand that Gaijin has a bunch of things going for it, mainly the fact that a lot of people (somehow) don't touch type and want the Latin legends and also the whole thing about a little bit more matching synergy between mods and alphas but still, the mono is just too ****ing special man.

[MiTo]

Also, regarding the JIS compatibility I think it is worth taking a look at since we are doing a japanese kit. If the number of keycaps is somewhat reasonable I believe I could try to make it work with the manufacturer. I'll be honest with you, the idea is to offer this kit merely for aesthetics and I don't think JIS compatibility will be available. But just for the sake of it, from my understanding, if we go with the Gaijin version we are 9 keycaps short?

I tagged the missing keycaps (in case we go with the Gaijin version) with red:

[MiTo]

Again, the simplicity of the mono Hiragana is so stunning and gorgeous. I really wish that'd be the option that makes it. I understand that Gaijin has a bunch of things going for it, mainly the fact that a lot of people (somehow) don't touch type and want the Latin legends and also the whole thing about a little bit more matching synergy between mods and alphas but still, the mono is just too ****ing special man.

I'm still hoping that I'll be able to break the kits in a modular manner (like SA and DSA keycap sets), that would be very nice. Mostly because I'd be able to offer alphas and modifiers separately, which is something that could potentially open doors for secondary modifier kits like icons only or something. If the modular option is provided but the current iteration turns out to be cheaper, I'm going to maintain things as they are though.

[digisax]

Again, the simplicity of the mono Hiragana is so stunning and gorgeous. I really wish that'd be the option that makes it. I understand that Gaijin has a bunch of things going for it, mainly the fact that a lot of people (somehow) don't touch type and want the Latin legends and also the whole thing about a little bit more matching synergy between mods and alphas but still, the mono is just too ****ing special man.

I'm still hoping that I'll be able to break the kits in a modular manner (like SA and DSA keycap sets), that would be very nice. Mostly because I'd be able to offer alphas and modifiers separately, which is something that could potentially open doors for secondary modifier kits like icons only or something. If the modular option is provided but the current iteration turns out to be cheaper, I'm going to maintain things as they are though.

So if they aren't modular someone would need to order the base kit of alphas and mods and then the Hiragana kit on top of that? Or would there be a Latin alpha and mod kit and a hiragana alpha and mod kit?

[Vigrith]

I'm still hoping that I'll be able to break the kits in a modular manner (like SA and DSA keycap sets), that would be very nice. Mostly because I'd be able to offer alphas and modifiers separately, which is something that could potentially open doors for secondary modifier kits like icons only or something. If the modular option is provided but the current iteration turns out to be cheaper, I'm going to maintain things as they are though.

Yea I think icon mods would work very well here - would need to see it to be sure (as you said, some times something you visualise in your head seems amazing but then in reality it doesn't really work like the hybrids) but one thing I know is T0mb3ry worked very hard to achieve the current iteration of his Yuri icon mods; if he'd allow you to use the same icons and respective moulds then not only would it probably be much cheaper (maybe even as cheap as the current latin legend ones) but also very realistic.

I can already envision his icon mods with mono hiragana alphas, that'd be a sight to behold I'm sure, especially given this set's retro-futuristic theme.

[Vigrith]

So if they aren't modular someone would need to order the base kit of alphas and mods and then the Hiragana kit on top of that? Or would there be a Latin alpha and mod kit and a hiragana alpha and mod kit?

As I understand it from GMK Carbon for example and now more recently the upcoming Yuri, you are not pigeon-held into buying in to both - the way it works is; standard kit is released first and if it is met with appropriate success it then enables the "secondary" kits, in Carbon's case novelties/International, in Yuri's case Cyrillic and Icon Mods, in Laser's case Ortho/ergo, Hiragana, etc.

Of course this all depends on GMK, Massdrop, the designer, etc. but I believe that's what Mito means when he mentions modularity.

[digisax]

So if they aren't modular someone would need to order the base kit of alphas and mods and then the Hiragana kit on top of that? Or would there be a Latin alpha and mod kit and a hiragana alpha and mod kit?

As I understand it from GMK Carbon for example and now more recently the upcoming Yuri, you are not pigeon-held into buying in to both - the way it works is; standard kit is released first and if it is met with appropriate success it then enables the "secondary" kits, in Carbon's case novelties/International, in Yuri's case Cyrillic and Icon Mods, in Laser's case Ortho/ergo, Hiragana, etc.

Of course this all depends on GMK, Massdrop, the designer, etc. but I believe that's what Mito means when he mentions modularity.

Gotcha, I haven't been in on a GMK group buy before and I'd have been much less interested in Laser if I had to get Latin as well as Hiragana since that would have driven the cost up a fair bit.

[megaforce]

Again, the simplicity of the mono Hiragana is so stunning and gorgeous. I really wish that'd be the option that makes it. I understand that Gaijin has a bunch of things going for it, mainly the fact that a lot of people (somehow) don't touch type and want the Latin legends and also the whole thing about a little bit more matching synergy between mods and alphas but still, the mono is just too ****ing special man.

TFW some keyboard enthusiasts aren't touch typist in 2017...

Learn the ways of our Lord and Savoir Mavis Beacon. Acquire mono hiragana legends.

[ullr]

Also, regarding the JIS compatibility I think it is worth taking a look at since we are doing a japanese kit. If the number of keycaps is somewhat reasonable I believe I could try to make it work with the manufacturer. I'll be honest with you, the idea is to offer this kit merely for aesthetics and I don't think JIS compatibility will be available. But just for the sake of it, from my understanding, if we go with the Gaijin version we are 9 keycaps short?

I tagged the missing keycaps (in case we go with the Gaijin version) with red:

Show Image

Hey, thank you for the consideration anyway. You missed a few that are shifted over one, unfortunately.

I highlighted the changes and overlayed what I understand you have planned that is different in what you missed.

EDIT: Granted the smaller variant Kana are left out, as they are in your render.

Yea I think icon mods would work very well here - would need to see it to be sure (as you said, some times something you visualise in your head seems amazing but then in reality it doesn't really work like the hybrids) but one thing I know is T0mb3ry worked very hard to achieve the current iteration of his Yuri icon mods; if he'd allow you to use the same icons and respective moulds then not only would it probably be much cheaper (maybe even as cheap as the current latin legend ones) but also very realistic.

I can already envision his icon mods with mono hiragana alphas, that'd be a sight to behold I'm sure, especially given this set's retro-futuristic theme.

Even just icon mods for all but the bottom row would be lovely, IMO.

[_rubik]

My question is a totally practical one. I type reasonably well, but still need legends. I know, shameful, eh? But I also don't read Japanese. So for anyone in similar boat who has used Otaku, how hard is it to adjust and functionally use a set with single legends in a language other than the one I understand...??

As someone using Otaku on my Atreus, I can say it does make it a wee bit more difficult. That being said, the Atreus is a unique layout, and that makes it more difficult also. Personally, Latin legends make sense to me because I work mainly in English, so the dual legend are preferable because it is more functional. That being said, I realize this hobby is form before function.

[MrSteve920]

Love the legends update and the Gaijan alphas as well. Every update so far has been great for this set. Definitely in on this gb!

[_rubik]

Hey, thank you for the consideration anyway. You missed a few that are shifted over one, unfortunately.

I highlighted the changes and overlayed what I understand you have planned that is different in what you missed.

EDIT: Granted the smaller variant Kana are left out, as they are in your render.

Show Image

Even just icon mods for all but the bottom row would be lovely, IMO.

MiTo, thank you for the consideration! I think those alphas market in red would be best sold in a separate set, and I know there are a few of us willing to pay the premium. I obviously don't want to impose on everyone else's kits, but it 100% should be an optional kit.

[MiTo]

So if they aren't modular someone would need to order the base kit of alphas and mods and then the Hiragana kit on top of that? Or would there be a Latin alpha and mod kit and a hiragana alpha and mod kit?

As I understand it from GMK Carbon for example and now more recently the upcoming Yuri, you are not pigeon-held into buying in to both - the way it works is; standard kit is released first and if it is met with appropriate success it then enables the "secondary" kits, in Carbon's case novelties/International, in Yuri's case Cyrillic and Icon Mods, in Laser's case Ortho/ergo, Hiragana, etc.

Of course this all depends on GMK, Massdrop, the designer, etc. but I believe that's what Mito means when he mentions modularity.

Gotcha, I haven't been in on a GMK group buy before and I'd have been much less interested in Laser if I had to get Latin as well as Hiragana since that would have driven the cost up a fair bit.

As for now, if somebody wants a hiragana keyboard he would be required to order:

> Base Kit
> Hiragana Kit

As you can see on OP.

But in the event of modularity being available, I could split the current kits into mini kits like:

> Latin Alphas Kit
> Modifiers Kit
> Numpad Kit
> Hiragana Alphas Kit
> etc, etc, etc

In any case, after things are sorted (i.e. as we move closer to the group buy), I'm going to offer the most affordable and achievable distribution method - that you can be sure!

[Data]

Wow, are people actually trying to turn this into a full JIS set?

Dude, **** off. This is a badass 80s glam and cyberpunk set. Stop trying to co-opt it for your Japanese layout. Nobody is going to buy that **** and you'll ruin the kit for everyone. It's ****ing hilarious that we're getting called weaboos for wanting some kickass legends that fit the theme perfectly, because they'd only partially work on a full JIS keyboard. Pro tip: no one cares. Give it a rest.

[MiTo]

Originally voiced my opinion on r/mk for the Gaijin set, but Hiragana is just too unique, simple, and clean to pass up. There isn't a pure Hiragana Cherry-profile set around, this would make a hell of an entrance! Double-shot at it as well!

I'm so torn. I voted for the Gaijin too, but holy smokes, the simplicity of the Hiragana is freaking awesome!! Especially in the newest renders- that's the nuts right there.

My question is a totally practical one. I type reasonably well, but still need legends. I know, shameful, eh? But I also don't read Japanese. So for anyone in similar boat who has used Otaku, how hard is it to adjust and functionally use a set with single legends in a language other than the one I understand...??

In my perception, I think your brain would adjust to the new legends. Since you don't speak japanese, I think that if we make the hiragana kit you'd be like - this little bird looking glyph stands for &, this tree looking thing stands for W and so on. I believe the icon recognition would take place almost instantly, given that you already have a general understanding and comprehension of positioning of normal latin keycaps. You'd simply substitute the symbols you have with new ones and your brain would adjust. Using blanks is completely different though (I'm a full blanks user). Not entirely sure if I answered you or not but I'd like to read what DSA Otaku and other international/geek keycap sets users have to say about this.

[Vigrith]

As for now, if somebody wants a hiragana keyboard he would be required to order:

> Base Kit
> Hiragana Kit

As you can see on OP.

But in the event of modularity being available, I could split the current kits into mini kits like:

> Latin Alphas Kit
> Modifiers Kit
> Numpad Kit
> Hiragana Alphas Kit
> etc, etc, etc

In any case, after things are sorted (i.e. as we move closer to the group buy), I'm going to offer the most affordable and achievable distribution method - that you can be sure!

Indeed, as I thought then - however, the "restriction" is not the kits themselves being interlocked but the fact that you need the modifiers from the base kit still after getting Hiragana legends, correct? I believe there's a distinction to be made there, if one would want to just buy the Hiragana set being fully aware they'd be left without modifiers they would in theory be able to, right, or would you be required to buy the base set prior to being able to add Hiragana to the Massdrop order?

Sorry if this sounds nit-picky, I'm just genuinely curious and I'm sure others are/will be too. 

[MiTo]

but the fact that you need the modifiers from the base kit still after getting Hiragana legends, correct?

Yes, this is the correct interpretation. The way things are organized, unfortunately you'd be "forced" to buy the whole Base Kit in order to acquire the modifiers for the Hiragana kit you just bought.

I believe there's a distinction to be made there, if one would want to just buy the Hiragana set being fully aware they'd be left without modifiers

The distinction will be absolutely clear. Note that the renders I shared aren't renders for the japanese kit that will be offered, but renders of keyboards using the combo of Base Kit + hypothetical Gaijin/Hybrid/Hiragana Kit. After we decide which japanese version we are going to use, I'm gonna render the exact japanese kit that will be available for purchase - does that make sense?

[Vigrith]

Crystal clear, irmão! That's how I assumed you meant it, you need the base kit because you need the mods for your Hiragana alphas.

[ullr]

Wow, are people actually trying to turn this into a full JIS set?

Dude, **** off. This is a badass 80s glam and cyberpunk set. Stop trying to co-opt it for your Japanese layout. Nobody is going to buy that **** and you'll ruin the kit for everyone. It's ****ing hilarious that we're getting called weaboos for wanting some kickass legends that fit the theme perfectly, because they'd only partially work on a full JIS keyboard. Pro tip: no one cares. Give it a rest.

If Hiragana mods won it would be four keys away from JIS compatibility, all I’m realistically asking for since that isn’t going to happen is that an additional kit be considered.

Sorry I don’t like your “kickass” weeaboo legends, if you’re very adamant about keysets not being compatible with standardized keyboard layouts (because extra keys would “ruin it for everyone”) I might recommend DSA Otaku — since the fact that this set will go farther than most Hiragana sub‐legend sets by including the dakuten and handakuten will surely ruin it for you because clearly MiTo is “ruining it for everyone” by bringing it somewhat closer to having every symbol on a actual Japanese keyboard. Since I don’t have some Kanji tattoo picked out of a book or dated T‐Shirts with “kickass” Korean or Japanese gibberish to match them with, I’ll simply elect to not to buy sets that aren’t actually good for typing the languages on them.

I requested JIS compatibility before MiTo had posted anything other than that he was considering a Japanese kit, I’m not “co‐opting” anything. They’re entirely within their rights to decide that the set is better served with a focus on aesthetics, he asked for suggestions regarding the kit. I know I’m not the only person interested in JIS compatibility or I wouldn’t have even mentioned it after it was somewhat cleared up for me that the renders were tentatively exhaustive.

[_rubik]

Wow, are people actually trying to turn this into a full JIS set?

Dude, **** off. This is a badass 80s glam and cyberpunk set. Stop trying to co-opt it for your Japanese layout. Nobody is going to buy that **** and you'll ruin the kit for everyone. It's ****ing hilarious that we're getting called weaboos for wanting some kickass legends that fit the theme perfectly, because they'd only partially work on a full JIS keyboard. Pro tip: no one cares. Give it a rest.

If Hiragana mods won it would be four keys away from JIS compatibility, all I’m realistically asking for since that isn’t going to happen is that an additional kit be considered.

Sorry I don’t like your “kickass” weeaboo legends, if you’re very adamant about keysets not being compatible with standardized keyboard layouts (because extra keys would “ruin it for everyone”) I might recommend DSA Otaku — since the fact that this set will go farther than most Hiragana sub‐legend sets by including the dakuten and handakuten will surely ruin it for you because clearly MiTo is “ruining it for everyone” by bringing it somewhat closer to having every symbol on a actual Japanese keyboard. Since I don’t have some Kanji tattoo picked out of a book or dated T‐Shirts with “kickass” Korean or Japanese gibberish to match them with, I’ll simply elect to not to buy sets that aren’t actually good for typing the languages on them.

I requested JIS compatibility before MiTo had posted anything other than that he was considering a Japanese kit, I’m not “co‐opting” anything. They’re entirely within their rights to decide that the set is better served with a focus on aesthetics, he asked for suggestions regarding the kit. I know I’m not the only person interested in JIS compatibility or I wouldn’t have even mentioned it after it was somewhat cleared up for me that the renders were tentatively exhaustive.

I'm going to try to stop this flaming piss war. I think the JIS alpha kit recommendation stems from a desire for authenticity. The additional kit is 5 - 15 extra keys and hopefully will be separate and optional. We're not trying to hijack the set. It would be sad if this conversation turns into a flame war over cultures.

[odd13]

Are we getting close to being able to purchase ?? 

I am very excited!!

Base and novelties is what I would be up for purchasing. My first keycap purchase and looking at other prices I see this one will be expensive. So I'm waiting for the right keycaps (this set)...

So yeah, any idea about time fram, months? days...... years?

[MiTo]

Please don't feel enraged or offended my friends, we are a keyboard community and the things that bring us together are far stronger than what sets us apart. The hobby is here for us to enjoy, cooperate and have fun, so please don't argue, stress and discuss. We all enjoy the Asian cultures and it's cyberpunk roots, I'm sure we will have something along these lines for the group buy so we can all enjoy and make good use of the theme. Over 500 punks voted already and I'm sure you guys will pick a good looking and functional option.

Like I said, i don't think we gonna have proper JIS support because there are various keycaps missing when compared to what we have right now. If I add this, then I'll have to add Turkish, Brazilian and even Monkeyolean support to the international kit - since "it's just a few keycaps", right?

If the manufacturer wants to source JIS support for us without additional costs, then I don't see any problems but I doubt they will. Let's all have fun and appreciate what we accomplished so far, more exciting things to come!

[thelaughingman]

Although I'm not fond of the colour theme, the novelties certainly peaked my interest given the GitS keys. Thanks MiTo for designing them and so they can have their moulds with GMK in the first place.

I didn't notice the Major's neural link reference until I read the description, i.e a bit too abstract for me and the "Individual Eleven" key would be best suited for a white-on-black keycap imo but I digress. The real kicker here is if there's a laughing man logo key and I would insta-buy the whole set just to have that 1 key as you can probably see from my username & my avatar.

anyways, I voted for the Gaijin option and hopefully a laughing man keycap magically appears in the novelty kit. cheers!

[MiTo]

Show Image

Although I'm not fond of the colour theme, the novelties certainly peaked my interest given the GitS keys. Thanks MiTo for designing them and so they can have their moulds with GMK in the first place.

I didn't notice the Major's neural link reference until I read the description, i.e a bit too abstract for me and the "Individual Eleven" key would be best suited for a white-on-black keycap imo but I digress. The real kicker here is if there's a laughing man logo key and I would insta-buy the whole set just to have that 1 key as you can probably see from my username & my avatar.

anyways, I voted for the Gaijin option and hopefully a laughing man keycap magically appears in the novelty kit. cheers!

What a coincidence, you're indeed a fan! Nice username and avatar as well, I think it's meant to be. First of all - thanks for the thoughtful reply, I definitely appreciate the feedback and criticism. I'm happy that you enjoy the novelties and that initially you weren't too interested in the set but things changed after you seen them.

Now, for the neuralink - it's an abstraction of the symbol we previously had and the spot on @callow (over Massdrop Talk Tab) concept. His idea was a bit too complex to implement, despite looking very good, so I decided to go with mine. I think it's cool in it's own nature, perhaps something from a fictional universe we are shaping right now?!



About 笑い男, I gave it a try. You can see in the image above the Hall of Shame, which is a render of some lame novelties that I wasn't really happy with, after seeing the final result. I designed many others, which aren't included in the render. As for the 笑い男 specifically, I think the design is too thin/small to be properly manufacturable. 個別の十一人 on BoW/WoB would be cool and I'm with you on this one. But then again we would mess with the color coordination we currently have going on for the assembly of novelties. Well, I hope you understand!

[thelaughingman]

Show Image

Although I'm not fond of the colour theme, the novelties certainly peaked my interest given the GitS keys. Thanks MiTo for designing them and so they can have their moulds with GMK in the first place.

I didn't notice the Major's neural link reference until I read the description, i.e a bit too abstract for me and the "Individual Eleven" key would be best suited for a white-on-black keycap imo but I digress. The real kicker here is if there's a laughing man logo key and I would insta-buy the whole set just to have that 1 key as you can probably see from my username & my avatar.

anyways, I voted for the Gaijin option and hopefully a laughing man keycap magically appears in the novelty kit. cheers!

What a coincidence, you're indeed a fan! Nice username and avatar as well, I think it's meant to be. First of all - thanks for the thoughtful reply, I definitely appreciate the feedback and criticism. I'm happy that you enjoy the novelties and that initially you weren't too interested in the set but things changed after you seen them.

Now, for the neuralink - it's an abstraction of the symbol we previously had and the spot on @callow (over Massdrop Talk Tab) concept. His idea was a bit too complex to implement, despite looking very good, so I decided to go with mine. I think it's cool in it's own nature, perhaps something from a fictional universe we are shaping right now?!

Show Image

About 笑い男, I gave it a try. You can see in the image above the Hall of Shame, which is a render of some lame novelties that I wasn't really happy with, after seeing the final result. I designed many others, which aren't included in the render. As for the 笑い男 specifically, I think the design is too thin/small to be properly manufacturable. 個別の十一人 on BoW/WoB would be cool and I'm with you on this one. But then again we would mess with the color coordination we currently have going on for the assembly of novelties. Well, I hope you understand!

Yeah I thank you for your work and I do understand that we're limited with the 1u surface area. I love GitS to death and can go on and on about it but this is not a GitS keyset LOL. I forgot to mention that I love the Tachikoma key, those guys are awesome and deserve a mention and I also find the 88 1.25u really cool, especially in how you intentionally have it resembles old Windows logos. One last thing I will say about the novelties is that I don't feel strongly for the keys already included in GMK Carbon Novelties, they seem out-of-tune to me compare to the other keys that have more interesting designs and backstories.

On to the main set, the original Latin-only alphas and the colours did not jump out to me at all when I first saw it on Massdrop talk months ago. Two things now have covered those points: the Gaijin alphas definitely makes it look fuller to my taste, and the more pink (correct me if I'm wrong but it looks pink to my eyes) there is on this set (accent keys & novelties), the better the whole set looks to me.

Have this thread on watch now while I continue waiting for Canvas XDA to be produced 

[a_ak57]

I think it'd be worth asking GMK if it's possible to make that Laughing Man key as I don't see it as "Hall of Shame" worthy at all in terms of design.  It's a much more recognizable symbol of GitS than the neural link, which just like thelaughingman I didn't even realize was a GitS key until I read the description.  I'd personally be more likely to buy the novelty set if the laughing man key were a part of it.

[ullr]

Personally I’m most pleased the origami unicorn could make it, I think it’s the quintessential image of the quintessential piece of Sci‐Fi media ever. I was worried it would be too complex to get a good facsimile of, but it worked out excellently.

[thelaughingman]

I think it'd be worth asking GMK if it's possible to make that Laughing Man key as I don't see it as "Hall of Shame" worthy at all in terms of design.  It's a much more recognizable symbol of GitS than the neural link, which just like thelaughingman I didn't even realize was a GitS key until I read the description.  I'd personally be more likely to buy the novelty set if the laughing man key were a part of it.

I think this is the answer you were looking for:

As for the 笑い男 specifically, I think the design is too thin/small to be properly manufacturable. 個別の十一人 on BoW/WoB would be cool and I'm with you on this one. But then again we would mess with the color coordination we currently have going on for the assembly of novelties. Well, I hope you understand!

[MiTo]

Personally I’m most pleased the origami unicorn could make it, I think it’s the quintessential image of the quintessential piece of Sci‐Fi media ever. I was worried it would be too complex to get a good facsimile of, but it worked out excellently.

It possibly one of my favorite ones, it was a wonderful suggestion! I really enjoy the hoofs and horn as well (especially the corners), the symbol is very recognizable and very cute! Thanks for encouraging me to pursue this design, it was very nice to find a way to make it happen!

I think it'd be worth asking GMK if it's possible to make that Laughing Man key as I don't see it as "Hall of Shame" worthy at all in terms of design.  It's a much more recognizable symbol of GitS than the neural link, which just like thelaughingman I didn't even realize was a GitS key until I read the description.  I'd personally be more likely to buy the novelty set if the laughing man key were a part of it.

Thanks ak, I appreciate the reply. I combined only the terrible designs in that image, hence why I called hall of shame - I was really disapointed by the colors (TMNT) and design of the other symbols. The Ninja Turtle is a free icon, the other ones took me quite a while to make but I was unhappy. Not everything seems to be a waste though, since apparently you enjoy the 笑い男. Like I told the other guy - perhaps we should replace it for the voltage symbol? I gotta confirm if it's injectable however, the eyes and lines are pretty small.

Yeah I thank you for your work and I do understand that we're limited with the 1u surface area. I love GitS to death and can go on and on about it but this is not a GitS keyset LOL. I forgot to mention that I love the Tachikoma key, those guys are awesome and deserve a mention and I also find the 88 1.25u really cool, especially in how you intentionally have it resembles old Windows logos. One last thing I will say about the novelties is that I don't feel strongly for the keys already included in GMK Carbon Novelties, they seem out-of-tune to me compare to the other keys that have more interesting designs and backstories.

On to the main set, the original Latin-only alphas and the colours did not jump out to me at all when I first saw it on Massdrop talk months ago. Two things now have covered those points: the Gaijin alphas definitely makes it look fuller to my taste, and the more pink (correct me if I'm wrong but it looks pink to my eyes) there is on this set (accent keys & novelties), the better the whole set looks to me.

Have this thread on watch now while I continue waiting for Canvas XDA to be produced 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and feedback about the 1.25u novelties and the Carbon recycling of molds as well. I'm not a huge fan of the high voltage symbol neither, perhaps we could replace it for my version of the 笑い男 logo - which is the one you see in the lame render. The version feature tiny sausage eyes instead of ^^, I made this change hoping that the 2shot machines will accept it but if you guys really want it I'll have to confirm. As for your question, yeah the color is a pink/magenta!

PS: I'll be making a nice Canvas update soon, the legends are super good looking in real life.

[a_ak57]

I think it'd be worth asking GMK if it's possible to make that Laughing Man key as I don't see it as "Hall of Shame" worthy at all in terms of design.  It's a much more recognizable symbol of GitS than the neural link, which just like thelaughingman I didn't even realize was a GitS key until I read the description.  I'd personally be more likely to buy the novelty set if the laughing man key were a part of it.

I think this is the answer you were looking for:

As for the 笑い男 specifically, I think the design is too thin/small to be properly manufacturable. 個別の十一人 on BoW/WoB would be cool and I'm with you on this one. But then again we would mess with the color coordination we currently have going on for the assembly of novelties. Well, I hope you understand!

Well, Mito said that he thinks it's too thin, so I was saying he should ask GMK to verify whether or not that's actually the case.  And if it isn't possible, if given a minimum thickness spec by them he could do another design meeting that, then post it here to see what we think.

[thelaughingman]

Yeah I thank you for your work and I do understand that we're limited with the 1u surface area. I love GitS to death and can go on and on about it but this is not a GitS keyset LOL. I forgot to mention that I love the Tachikoma key, those guys are awesome and deserve a mention and I also find the 88 1.25u really cool, especially in how you intentionally have it resembles old Windows logos. One last thing I will say about the novelties is that I don't feel strongly for the keys already included in GMK Carbon Novelties, they seem out-of-tune to me compare to the other keys that have more interesting designs and backstories.

On to the main set, the original Latin-only alphas and the colours did not jump out to me at all when I first saw it on Massdrop talk months ago. Two things now have covered those points: the Gaijin alphas definitely makes it look fuller to my taste, and the more pink (correct me if I'm wrong but it looks pink to my eyes) there is on this set (accent keys & novelties), the better the whole set looks to me.

Have this thread on watch now while I continue waiting for Canvas XDA to be produced 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and feedback about the 1.25u novelties and the Carbon recycling of molds as well. I'm not a huge fan of the high voltage symbol neither, perhaps we could replace it for my version of the 笑い男 logo - which is the one you see in the lame render. The version feature tiny sausage eyes instead of ^^, I made this change hoping that the 2shot machines will accept it but if you guys really want it I'll have to confirm. As for your question, yeah the color is a pink/magenta!

PS: I'll be making a nice Canvas update soon, the legends are super good looking in real life.

Both sausage eyes and ^^ look great to me though it would be super if you could get a response from GMK on that so there is a clear boundary on what you can do and cannot do. I look forward to updates for both sets 

[ArchDill]

[SBN]

Since we are talking about Noveleties:

I also think the Carbon Warning Signs are not a must have in the kit and maybe could be replaced with other more relevant to the theme keys. But I understand that there probably is a point where the set gets to expensive with all the new moulds.

I want to make a suggestion anyway. Thinking about Cyberpunk I always associate System Shock 1 & 2. Awesome games!
Shodan is probably too hard to represent on a small key, but I think the logo of the TriOptimum Corporation would be a good fit for the set maybe?



http://shodan.wikia.com/wiki/TriOptimum

[_rubik]

I'm going to bump this "older" comment, because I think it's becoming increasingly relevant. I'm curious how the contrasting color will look together considering they are so vibrant. Manufacturer samples would be very telling for anyone on the fence.

The cyan and the pink are not going to look like that. They are not neon colors, they don't glow. This is not going to look like the renders, I guarantee it.

Yeah I would definitely worry about the contrast. I bought the Uniq0rn modifiers and aside from the Cyan on Purple they did not look good, very fuzzy.

[xondat]

MiTo has a bit of history with not giving credit to some graphic work. If anyone wants to generate similar graphics like the one here:



Then you can do so by visiting this page!

jk

good luck MiTo.

[TheDisappointingGatsby]

Why should he have to give credit to a free online design tool?

As for the IC layout, yeah, it's pretty clear he copied the format and then just changed the info but it's not like the Nautilus IC layout is protected by copyright or anything.

Just seems kind of childish to point all this out. 

[jebbra]

After JIS, now we talk about thread formatting?

[Ouhei]

Why should he have to give credit to a free online design tool?

As for the IC layout, yeah, it's pretty clear he copied the format and then just changed the info but it's not like the Nautilus IC layout is protected by copyright or anything.

Just seems kind of childish to point all this out.

lol yeah, who cares? It's a thread format...talk about petty.