Review: KBParadise v80 with Matias Click switches (KBP-V80MTS-C)

[macguy80]

Before this keyboard arrived, my only experience with current Matias switches is with the Matias QuietPro which, of course, features the Quiet Click switches. I also owned one of the original Tactile Pro keyboards, but these did not use Matias-designed switches. Suffice it to say, I don't remember those original switches as being anywhere near as fun to type on as these Matias Click switches.

The KBP-V80MTS-C, which I will henceforth refer to as the V80 for brevity's sake is a well-built board. Absolutely solid, without being heavy. A traditional TKL layout, something Matias themselves do not offer. With rubber-tipped flip-down feet, and grippy rubber pads towards the front of the keyboard, it does not move around on my desk, no matter how hard I type on it. It looks rather plain but, to my way of thinking, it makes the wonderful switches a well-kept secret. More on the switches very shortly.

Are there any features it lacks that I'd like to see? Yes: It would be great if there was at least one dip switch to swap the Win and Alt keys in hardware, although the Mac OS does this via software just fine. And the font for the legends is nice but, in my opinion, a little small. Both small quibbles, to be sure.

The Matias Click switches are amazing. I would call them a masterwork. There is a noticeable ping but, honestly, I enjoy typing on them so much that I soon forget about the ping. My fingers can just fly. These switches are undeniably tactile. They remind me of my Apple IIc, which is also extremely tactile. They might even be the prized blue Alps although, truth be told, I am too nervous to remove the keycaps to be sure. They're vintage, and I don't want to risk damaging them. The Matias Clicks are similar, though not identical by any means.

I whole-heartedly recommend this keyboard, which I got from MechanicalKeyboards.com.

My only other experience with Matias switches is my QuietPro with the Quiet Click switches. Where the click switches are tactile, I would say that the Quiet Clicks feel less tactile and more scratchy in comparison. The Quiet Clicks are nice, but the Click switches just feel that much nicer. It did occur to me that the two keyboards are made by two different manufacturers, so my next plan is to get a V80 with the Quiet Click switches, to be sure I can make a fair, apples-to-apples comparison with regard to the switches. I do believe my QuietPro is one of the early production runs, so I am curious to see if a newer batch of switches feels different.

And the click sound is just fantastic. I hate mx blues because of that high-pitched click. If that describes you as well, worry not, because the click here is not as high-pitched, and thus, not annoying.

Anyway, I hope this review has been helpful.

[klennkellon]

good review, i have a v80 with the quiet clicks and agree with everything

BTW no Apple II used blue alps, it used SCKM Orange ALPS.

[dante]

The V80MTS I received had a cable that was a touch thicker than the channel.  It kept falling out and required much more pressure to put in than it should; thus, reinforcing my personal preference for a hardwired cable.

Like many on MassDrop mine also had minor keychatter.  I don't know if it's the switches, the firmware, or both.

Nothing erodes confidence in "unbreakable" mechanical keyboards like key chattttttter.

[klennkellon]

The V80MTS I received had a cable that was a touch thicker than the channel.  It kept falling out and required much more pressure to put in than it should; thus, reinforcing my personal preference for a hardwired cable.

Like many on MassDrop mine also had minor keychatter.  I don't know if it's the switches, the firmware, or both.

Nothing erodes confidence in "unbreakable" mechanical keyboards like key chattttttter.

the f key on mine chatters too.

[emdude]

Interesting review, I've got half a mind to try Matias switches at some point.

These switches are undeniably tactile. They remind me of my Apple IIc, which is also extremely tactile. They might even be the prized blue Alps although, truth be told, I am too nervous to remove the keycaps to be sure. They're vintage, and I don't want to risk damaging them. The Matias Clicks are similar, though not identical by any means.

If your IIc is model A2S4100, then it's SKCM Ambers that you are talking about.

[klennkellon]

Matias are great. A lot of people feel they are superior to the original SKCM dampened ALPS like cream and white dampened.

But undampened, I think the original SKCM's are superior, though maybe the Matias are a tad better than later black ALPS.

[macguy80]

Interesting review, I've got half a mind to try Matias switches at some point.

They're definitely worth a try. Side by side, I'd take my IIc every time, though. The Matias clicks are as close as I've gotten to it though. The quiet clicks are nothing similar, though. As I said earlier, I do plan to get a V80 with Quiet Clicks before I form a final opinion on them.

If your IIc is model A2S4100, then it's SKCM Ambers that you are talking about.

Wow, thanks for clearing up the mystery! Mine *is* A2S4100. SKCM Ambers are easily my favorite Alps switch, followed by SKCM Orange, and then SKCM Dampened Cream.

If my IIc ever (irreparably) dies, I am finding a way to turn it into an external keyboard. That's how much I like those switches.

[UnFocused]

If my IIc ever (irreparably) dies, I am finding a way to turn it into an external keyboard. That's how much I like those switches.

Here's how you can do it:

http://retroconnector.com/products/apple-ii/keyboard-shield-for-apple-iic-or-iic/

[macguy80]

Here's how you can do it:

Excellent! Thank you so much! I'll probably buy one and store it just in case the day comes

[emdude]

Interesting review, I've got half a mind to try Matias switches at some point.

They're definitely worth a try. Side by side, I'd take my IIc every time, though. The Matias clicks are as close as I've gotten to it though. The quiet clicks are nothing similar, though. As I said earlier, I do plan to get a V80 with Quiet Clicks before I form a final opinion on them.

If your IIc is model A2S4100, then it's SKCM Ambers that you are talking about.

Wow, thanks for clearing up the mystery! Mine *is* A2S4100. SKCM Ambers are easily my favorite Alps switch, followed by SKCM Orange, and then SKCM Dampened Cream.

If my IIc ever (irreparably) dies, I am finding a way to turn it into an external keyboard. That's how much I like those switches.

I have an A2S4100 keyboard myself and really enjoy it as well!  I would love to make an external keyboard at some point too, using the keyboard shield UnFocused linked to.

[macguy80]

I have an A2S4100 keyboard myself and really enjoy it as well!  I would love to make an external keyboard at some point too, using the keyboard shield UnFocused linked to.

I just don't have it in me to do it while the IIc itself still works. It would be digital sacrilege, IMO

They also have one for the IIe. I think it would be fun to buy an otherwise non-working unit and repurpose it. That would really send me back to first grade. The keyboard's nowhere near as good, but the retro factor would be huge!

[UnFocused]

They also have one for the IIe. I think it would be fun to buy an otherwise non-working unit and repurpose it. That would really send me back to first grade. The keyboard's nowhere near as good, but the retro factor would be huge!

Which //e keyboard are you talking about here? There's three that I know of. The original (large legends on the keycaps), the 2nd (and what seems to be the most common with the smaller legends and different switch) and the "platinum" ones with the numeric keypad (which I never liked because it destroyed the classic look of the machine).

The 1st version looks like this (this one is mine): http://i.imgur.com/nAkYTIY.jpg

The 2nd version looks like this: http://apple2online.com/web_images/RFP%20Apple%20IIe.jpg

The "platinum" ones... I despise the way those look.

Anyway, the keyboard on the original is one of my favorite mechanical keyboards. I don't know what sort of switches it has, but they're wonderfully linear and medium-heavy and sound very springy.

The 2nd versions have a different switch that has less key travel and are lighter. I had one of these in the early 80s and now have a stack of them for backups.

I need to do some research and figure out exactly what switches these machines have.

[macguy80]

Most of my experience is with the second and third varieties. I think I've had the pleasure (you're right about that) of using the first variety once or twice.

I also have a IIgs, but I really want to get my hands on one of the Made in Japan keyboards with Orange alps to use with it. That and the IIgs RGB monitor.

[UnFocused]

I also have a IIgs, but I really want to get my hands on one of the Made in Japan keyboards with Orange alps to use with it. That and the IIgs RGB monitor.

Heh, I just sold one of those Japanese made ADB IIgs keyboard with orange Alps. I also have the version of that (again with orange Alps) that came with a Mac SE my mom bought in 1986 or 1987 and I made a Teensy / TMK converter for it: https://imgur.com/a/Txane.

[macguy80]

Oh that is SWEET! You even managed to match the overall styling! The first Mac I ever used was an SE that my first and second grade teacher bought for the classroom. I can still remember the sound of the Miniscribe HD. I can also remember being amazed at the motorized floppy eject. My home computer at the time was a c64C.

I just use a Griffin iMate that I bought at Macworld Expo years ago. Your M0116 looks so much nicer than mine. Did you retrobrite it, or did it somehow manage to stay that nice anyhow?

I also have a M0115 AEK I -- it has salmon alps, which are nice, but I really would love to find one with orange -- they're just that much smoother. Trouble is, it's a crap shoot, unless you find a seller who knows how to safely remove an Alps keycap without mangling it.

[UnFocused]

Oh that is SWEET! You even managed to match the overall styling! The first Mac I ever used was an SE that my first and second grade teacher bought for the classroom. I can still remember the sound of the Miniscribe HD. I can also remember being amazed at the motorized floppy eject. My home computer at the time was a c64C.

I just use a Griffin iMate that I bought at Macworld Expo years ago. Your M0116 looks so much nicer than mine. Did you retrobrite it, or did it somehow manage to stay that nice anyhow?

I guess it does kinda match, but I wasn't going for that. I just wanted a very compact enclosure for it.

I didn't retrobright my keyboard. It's just somehow managed to stay nice.

[duhhey]

cool! might pick one up

[Hypersphere]

@macguy80: Thanks for the review. The Matias Click is also one of my favorite switches. I have the KBP V60MTS-C and V60MTS-Q. I like both boards, but I like the Click version better. The Quiet version feels too damped on the downstroke, a bit like a Cherry mx switch with O-rings. I do like the damped return stroke, and someday I might open the Quiet switches and clip the lower damper. A modification I would like to make on the Matias Click board is to put a Matias Quiet switch on the spacebar.

A simple modification you might consider for your V80 is to harvest some nice dye-sub PBT or doubleshot ABS caps from vintage Alps-switch keyboards. It is fairly easy to find these for the alpha and number keys. If you have trouble sourcing the modifiers and spacebars, you can buy blank or lettered ABS ones from Matias. There are also doubleshot ABS sets now available from MK.com.

Although I like Matias switches, and I admire the company for deciding to use a modified Alps design for its keyboard switches, there are some vintage Alps switches and other Alps clones that I like better than Matias. If I can ever find the time, I would like to desolder some of these switches and build one or more custom Alps-switch boards. For the time being, though, it is nice to be able to enjoy the convenience and quality typing experience of a ready-made keyboard with Matias switches.

[bloorocket]

Nice review, will try to find one

[ThoughtArtist]

Nice review, will try to find one

I was thinking about getting this so I could do an Alps mod, but it only has one screw on the bottom and it is otherwise held together with plastic tabs. A review on MechanicalKeyboards.com is pretty scathing of its build quality.

[UnFocused]

I was thinking about getting this so I could do an Alps mod, but it only has one screw on the bottom and it is otherwise held together with plastic tabs. A review on MechanicalKeyboards.com is pretty scathing of its build quality.

If it's the V80 you're talking about, the case is almost exactly the same as that of a QFR.

[klennkellon]

The V80's build quality is pretty solid imo, it doesn't creak a lot and has very little flex. The stock caps are pretty **** though, on mechanicalkeyboards.com for around $20 more you can get one with some Tai-Hao doubleshots.

The stock keycaps do make my quiet clicks sound very nice, though. The doubleshots from my Focus made them sound very rattly and plasticy.

[jdcarpe]

I transplanted the V80MTS into a TEX alu case, and I'm loving it. Nothing wrong with the stock case, of course, as it's basically the same as a Filco or QFR. But with it in the alu case, I love it as much as my LZ or KMAC.

To me, the Quiet Clicks are what MX clears should have been. I'm definitely an Alps fanboy.

I'm using the Tai Hao double shots the V80 came with. I think the Dolch colorway is a classic.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

I have the KBP V60 with Dolche ABS Doubleshots and Matias click switches, it's a nice little board though the case could be much better compared to it's Pok3r brother.  But, for the price it's not a bad pickup considering the rarity of 60% boards with Matias clicky as a stock switch.  I may eventually put it up for sale i'm undecided but at moment it's a fun little toy with MX Blues feel "lacking" i bring out the big Matias guns.

[mikes41720]

Reading this thread is making me want to get a Matias Clicky board for my first Alps experience!

[ndakota79]

I'm waiting for the KBP 60 Matias on Massdrop. Hopefully with good Keycaps.

[Hypersphere]

I transplanted the V80MTS into a TEX alu case, and I'm loving it. Nothing wrong with the stock case, of course, as it's basically the same as a Filco or QFR. But with it in the alu case, I love it as much as my LZ or KMAC.

To me, the Quiet Clicks are what MX clears should have been. I'm definitely an Alps fanboy.

I'm using the Tai Hao double shots the V80 came with. I think the Dolch colorway is a classic.

I initially put my V60MTS-C into a TEX aluminum case, but this caused the clicky Matias switches to sound higher-pitched, like Cherry mx blues. I didn't like this effect, and so I went back to the stock case. I'd like to try the aluminum case with the Matias Quiet version, but mine is an early model that does not have the extra mounting holes for aftermarket cases.

I go back and forth between Matias Quiet and Matias Click. I prefer the feel of the Matias Click. In addition, my speed and accuracy are better with the Matias Clicks. To me, the damping in the Matias Quiet feels a bit mushy. However, I think that a hybrid with clipped lower dampers could be good. This would damp and quiet the return stroke but undamp the downstroke. I would probably leave a fully damped switch on the spacebar.

Yes, indeed the Dolch colorway is a classic. Tai-Hao did a fairly good job, especially on the alphanumeric keys, but the mods are significantly farther from the original Dolch color. On my V60MTS boards, I have put dye-sub PBT alphanumerics from IBM 5140 boards. For spacebars and mods, so far I am using blank black ABS caps from Matias -- maybe in a year or so they will finally start selling PBT caps.

[klennkellon]

I feel like the dampening Matias used on their switches is thicker and softer than the one used on SKCM Ivorys/Cream. The SKCM feel less mushy and also like the travel distance looks like it was affected a little less. It's also louder than the Matias.

[Screwdriver]

I bought the V80 with the Quiet Clicks and Olivetti caps. Two keys, the backspace and L Shift did not have the stabilizers attached....just loose, so I had to reattached them. Keys rattled like crazy and the board was not level and needed to be tweaked. With the loose caps and wobbly keys, it was just not my cup of tea.

Sucks as I wanted to try the ALPS feel...and I sure hope that wasn't it.

[macguy80]

Sucks as I wanted to try the ALPS feel...and I sure hope that wasn't it.

As pleased as I am with my V80, I do have to say that I don't think the switches hold a candle to true vintage (read: complicated) ALPS. The Matias switches are based on simplified ALPS, which just aren't the same as one would have experienced back in the day. That's my opinion, anyway.

[klennkellon]

I personally feel like the Matias Clicks are just as good as SKCM White, they're slightly smoother and lighter but not too light.

However they are hella loud and tinny sounding compared to the originals, even the crappy XM clones had a better sound at least.

So overall I'd say the originals are a lot more enjoyable to use because of that, but their feel at least is very close.

If there is something else I'm missing or haven't noticed that make the SKCMs feel better do tell.

[macguy80]

I don't think I've ever used SKCM Whites... SKCM Damped Whites, yes, but those are a different animal.

I have used (all SKCM):

Orange
Salmon
Damped White
Damped Cream
Taxi Yellow/Amber

Want to experience:

Blue