The Living PCB Design Thread

[MOZ]

You can override the 45deg rule in the options, if you want more acute or obtuse angle. KiCAD by itself doesn't allow you to make curved traces. The only curved traces you'll see in KiCAD are either from meandering or if you use an external autorouter/routing tool  to route the tracks. In both these cases the curves consist of several small straight traces.

[bpiphany]

I was contemplating over doing curved traces in KiCAD. My idea was to make components that consist of two pads (with the same number perhaps). Then add a bunch of those components to each net that will have curves. Then make a bunch of footprints with different radii and angles that have two pads in the endpoints and a circle segment to tie them together. KiCAD will think all is dandy since it sees everything as tied together through the pads.

In the end that whole process seemed overwhelming though...

[MOZ]

bpiph is a special type of crazy. //mkawa

[BlueNalgene]

I made a small curved track for one of my oscillators.  I started with one of the microwave line length bits and then converted it to a 'part' which connected the oscillator to a wire.

[sinusoid]

@MOZ,
OK, turned off 45deg turn in preferences, I could effectively route traces by hand, like it was done in ye olde days
It looks kinda nice. You just change the grid resolution to get better or worse detail.


@bpiphany, BlueNalgene
I found you could actually do that by updating/reloading the netlist, but it's a PITA. edit: I mean, add or remove pre-built curve components.

This process works well for planning out connectors, too, like in the design above - I used 1 pin slots I could move around to avoid route intersections, that then can be replaced by 2x3 and 2x4 connectors in the example posted above. You just update the netlist with the new components and reload, then just update the routes.

Though... if we keep standard route distances, that predetermines the diameters of possible curves. They could be generated in 15 degree lengths and get loaded into the PCB with the net list. I think you could even keep a separate netlist for these...

Edit:
it's actually nice to pre-punch vias on a lesser grid resolution if you wanna keep them symmetric/in line, and then route to/from them manually later.

edit 2: whoa that was some mental shortcuts right there ;_;

[funderburker]

Hi!

What's a good read for a beginner about electronics all together?
I would like to try making my own PCBs but I don't know that much about electronics. I don't even know where to start looking when it comes to what components would I need to make a numpad PCB, for example. I found some tutorials about KiCad and am getting used to the software by going along with the tutorials but I don't know where to start planning with a PCB design of my own.

[sinusoid]

@funderburker,

The easiest way is to start with Arduino. There is plenty of tutorials online, for example on youtube. You can buy starter kits for this quite easily.
Several people make tutorials on the same subjects, so if you can't understand something from one tutorial, go to the other.

Some things you need to answer to yourself before you start learning:

1. Do you want to be proficient at it, or make a single project, or get some base knowledge so you can create stuff occasionally?
This describes your engagement, and determines how much time and money you should be investing into it.
It also describes whether you should pay someone to do it, or do it yourself.
You will need tools and materials to solder/desolder stuff, to etch the PCBs, you will need to buy components...

2. People learn differently. I think it's because their brains like to gather knowledge in different ways. You should first look at which mode fits you best:
- read all the books on the subject, memorize everything, think out your project, and only then proceed to create it, or,
- jump head first, making a lot of mistakes, and building the knowledge as you go.
Find out which of these work best for you, and follow it.
In both cases, prepare your education materials! Don't dive into the details straight away. See what exact things you need to learn to reach your aim. Try not to off-topic into other interesting things too much. Stay focused and aim-oriented.

I'd suggest finding a local hackerspace or makerspace (http://makeriga.org/ perhaps?) to get you started, and work in a way where you get your results quickly.
A nice starter project is to get an arduino, and:
- upload a code to it that makes the computer recognize it as a human interface device (HID). There is a ready code for that online, look around.
- wire a switch to it, and program the arduino to send a keypress info to the computer when you click the switch.

And on a final note, if you want to gain proficiency, don't ask. Search.
Why?
First of all, people will most often give you replies you're not ready for. The experienced ones will give you complex answers. The inexperienced ones will give you bad answers.
Second of all, this teaches you how to formulate search queries, what to look for, and how to apply that to your project. You'll be doing a lot of that in the future, even as an experienced EE! Saw Stackoverflow? Seen its popularity? It's not there without a reason!

[mrbishop]

kicad noob trying to learn more.

is there a Matias/CherryMX universal footprint out there anywhere? if so pleas point me in that direction

[funderburker]

@funderburker,

The easiest way is to start with Arduino. There is plenty of tutorials online, for example on youtube. You can buy starter kits for this quite easily.
Several people make tutorials on the same subjects, so if you can't understand something from one tutorial, go to the other.

Some things you need to answer to yourself before you start learning:

1. Do you want to be proficient at it, or make a single project, or get some base knowledge so you can create stuff occasionally?
This describes your engagement, and determines how much time and money you should be investing into it.
It also describes whether you should pay someone to do it, or do it yourself.
You will need tools and materials to solder/desolder stuff, to etch the PCBs, you will need to buy components...

2. People learn differently. I think it's because their brains like to gather knowledge in different ways. You should first look at which mode fits you best:
- read all the books on the subject, memorize everything, think out your project, and only then proceed to create it, or,
- jump head first, making a lot of mistakes, and building the knowledge as you go.
Find out which of these work best for you, and follow it.
In both cases, prepare your education materials! Don't dive into the details straight away. See what exact things you need to learn to reach your aim. Try not to off-topic into other interesting things too much. Stay focused and aim-oriented.

I'd suggest finding a local hackerspace or makerspace (http://makeriga.org/ perhaps?) to get you started, and work in a way where you get your results quickly.
A nice starter project is to get an arduino, and:
- upload a code to it that makes the computer recognize it as a human interface device (HID). There is a ready code for that online, look around.
- wire a switch to it, and program the arduino to send a keypress info to the computer when you click the switch.

And on a final note, if you want to gain proficiency, don't ask. Search.
Why?
First of all, people will most often give you replies you're not ready for. The experienced ones will give you complex answers. The inexperienced ones will give you bad answers.
Second of all, this teaches you how to formulate search queries, what to look for, and how to apply that to your project. You'll be doing a lot of that in the future, even as an experienced EE! Saw Stackoverflow? Seen its popularity? It's not there without a reason!

Wow, thank you for the thorough advice! Will have to sit down and think about these questions on my own. And kudos on checking my local hackerspace.
But a short answer to the first question: I want to learn enough that I can make stuff from time to time. I recently got into mechs and now I just want to know more about electronics and be able to repair/make something on my own.
I hand-wired my first keyboard and it was so tedious that for my next project I would like to make a PCB. And for the projects to come, hopefully.
It would be really helpful for work too because I'm working on a hardware products and this knowledge would help for prototyping stages.

[iss]

kicad noob trying to learn more.

is there a Matias/CherryMX universal footprint out there anywhere? if so pleas point me in that direction

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48851.msg1240670#msg1240670

CHERRY_ALPS_PLATED should have what you need.

[mrbishop]

kicad noob trying to learn more.

is there a Matias/CherryMX universal footprint out there anywhere? if so pleas point me in that direction

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48851.msg1240670#msg1240670

CHERRY_ALPS_PLATED should have what you need.

Sweeeeeeet. My upcoming project thanks you. (67%)

[Fourfour]

I know people posting the same (hopefully) schematic have asked this question before, but I'm very paranoid about making mistakes as this is my first go at making a PCB. Would someone mind checking this sample of my keyboard matrix schematic and my teensy replacement schematic? Also my first post on geekhack!

[MOZ]

looks good

[Fourfour]

Thank you!! Now to finish working out the mess of tracks...

[mrbishop]

Thank you!! Now to finish working out the mess of tracks...

If MOZ says it looks good its good

Also welcome to GH

[Fourfour]

I'm new but I've seen enough of his posts to trust his opinion   

And thanks! I actually have another question. I can't figure out what type of crystal I should use. Could someone point me to where I could buy the right one/what the footprint of that one is?

[MOZ]

If MOZ says it looks good its good

Nothing like that, I just use the Teensy and GH60 schematics as reference.

[komar007]

I know people posting the same (hopefully) schematic have asked this question before, but I'm very paranoid about making mistakes as this is my first go at making a PCB. Would someone mind checking this sample of my keyboard matrix schematic and my teensy replacement schematic? Also my first post on geekhack!

Show Image

Show Image

Welcome to geekhack!

Good job. You should connect UGND to ground.

[...] I can't figure out what type of crystal I should use. Could someone point me to where I could buy the right one/what the footprint of that one is?

What kind of other components are you using and how much space is there on the board?
Can you afford to use a big THT crystal or is SMD better?
I usually use 2.5x2mm 4-pad SMD crystals, like Epson FA-20H. I can recommend those.

[Fourfour]

I know people posting the same (hopefully) schematic have asked this question before, but I'm very paranoid about making mistakes as this is my first go at making a PCB. Would someone mind checking this sample of my keyboard matrix schematic and my teensy replacement schematic? Also my first post on geekhack!

Show Image

Show Image

Welcome to geekhack!

Good job. You should connect UGND to ground.

[...] I can't figure out what type of crystal I should use. Could someone point me to where I could buy the right one/what the footprint of that one is?

What kind of other components are you using and how much space is there on the board?
Can you afford to use a big THT crystal or is SMD better?
I usually use 2.5x2mm 4-pad SMD crystals, like Epson FA-20H. I can recommend those.

Thanks for the help! I would prefer SMD, so that looks perfect, but I can't seem to find it in stock anywhere with reasonable shipping to the U.S. :/

[mrbishop]

I know people posting the same (hopefully) schematic have asked this question before, but I'm very paranoid about making mistakes as this is my first go at making a PCB. Would someone mind checking this sample of my keyboard matrix schematic and my teensy replacement schematic? Also my first post on geekhack!

Show Image

Show Image

Welcome to geekhack!

Good job. You should connect UGND to ground.

[...] I can't figure out what type of crystal I should use. Could someone point me to where I could buy the right one/what the footprint of that one is?

What kind of other components are you using and how much space is there on the board?
Can you afford to use a big THT crystal or is SMD better?
I usually use 2.5x2mm 4-pad SMD crystals, like Epson FA-20H. I can recommend those.

Thanks for the help! I would prefer SMD, so that looks perfect, but I can't seem to find it in stock anywhere with reasonable shipping to the U.S. :/

tried digikey or newark.com?

i like newark they are in SC like me LOL

[Fourfour]

I know people posting the same (hopefully) schematic have asked this question before, but I'm very paranoid about making mistakes as this is my first go at making a PCB. Would someone mind checking this sample of my keyboard matrix schematic and my teensy replacement schematic? Also my first post on geekhack!

Show Image

Show Image

Welcome to geekhack!

Good job. You should connect UGND to ground.

[...] I can't figure out what type of crystal I should use. Could someone point me to where I could buy the right one/what the footprint of that one is?

What kind of other components are you using and how much space is there on the board?
Can you afford to use a big THT crystal or is SMD better?
I usually use 2.5x2mm 4-pad SMD crystals, like Epson FA-20H. I can recommend those.

Thanks for the help! I would prefer SMD, so that looks perfect, but I can't seem to find it in stock anywhere with reasonable shipping to the U.S. :/

tried digikey or newark.com?

i like newark they are in SC like me LOL

Digikey doesn't seem to have it in stock and newark says there is a $20 freight charge per order 

[mrbishop]

More

I know people posting the same (hopefully) schematic have asked this question before, but I'm very paranoid about making mistakes as this is my first go at making a PCB. Would someone mind checking this sample of my keyboard matrix schematic and my teensy replacement schematic? Also my first post on geekhack!

Show Image

Show Image

Welcome to geekhack!

Good job. You should connect UGND to ground.

[...] I can't figure out what type of crystal I should use. Could someone point me to where I could buy the right one/what the footprint of that one is?

What kind of other components are you using and how much space is there on the board?
Can you afford to use a big THT crystal or is SMD better?
I usually use 2.5x2mm 4-pad SMD crystals, like Epson FA-20H. I can recommend those.

Thanks for the help! I would prefer SMD, so that looks perfect, but I can't seem to find it in stock anywhere with reasonable shipping to the U.S. :/

tried digikey or newark.com?

i like newark they are in SC like me LOL

Digikey doesn't seem to have it in stock and newark says there is a $20 freight charge per order 

try to check the similar items. thats a name brand crystal. you may be able to find one less expensive and NOT at their UK facility, which is why they are charging SOOOOOO much for shipping come to find out. i clicked on the 40Hz crystal and found some similar items that may fit what your needing but i'm no electronics expert in this matter so i'd see if you can find one then post here to confirm it will work unless you already know if it will or wont

hope this helps! best of luck!!!

there is always ebay/amazon but for specialty stuff like this its hit or miss at best.

[MOZ]

We used this for the GHPad
www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/7M-16.000MAAJ-T/887-1125-1-ND/2119014

[Fourfour]

We used this for the GHPad
www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/7M-16.000MAAJ-T/887-1125-1-ND/2119014

That looks great, thanks!

You all are very helpful, this is a nice place 

[climbalima]

does anybody have a trrs port kicad footprint?

[MOZ]

You can check the one used by Ergodox.

[mrbishop]

is there a repo somewhere that outlines a logic controller that would support larger keyboards such as the at90usb1286 that the Teensy 2.0 ++ uses. KiCAD please.

even a kicad schematic of a teensy 2++. i'm looking for a default jumping off point for future keyboard designs that have build on logic controllers. thanks 

[joey]

is there a repo somewhere that outlines a logic controller that would support larger keyboards such as the at90usb1286 that the Teensy 2.0 ++ uses. KiCAD please.

even a kicad schematic of a teensy 2++. i'm looking for a default jumping off point for future keyboard designs that have build on logic controllers. thanks 

Shouldn't be too hard to import this into KiCAD: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic2pp.gif

[mrbishop]

is there a repo somewhere that outlines a logic controller that would support larger keyboards such as the at90usb1286 that the Teensy 2.0 ++ uses. KiCAD please.

even a kicad schematic of a teensy 2++. i'm looking for a default jumping off point for future keyboard designs that have build on logic controllers. thanks 

Shouldn't be too hard to import this into KiCAD: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic2pp.gif

for someone who is more in tune with hardware design i would agree with you sadly i am not that person

[mrbishop]

i know there have been many projects geared around this in the past as a daughterboard. what i am looking for is the schematic and maybe the PCB footprint for one that i can use in keyboard projects big and small hence the reference to the larger AT90USB1286. this would allow more scaleability. sadly i am still teaching myself hardware design and learning from people here and there. Perhaps this should be broken out into a community project in its own thread unless it already exists.

[MOZ]

We're actively over at DT working on an ARM based solution that provides about 32 IO pins

[mrbishop]

We're actively over at DT working on an ARM based solution that provides about 32 IO pins

its funny ive been waiting for you to jump in on this MOZ 
can i get the link to the thread either here or in PM pleeeeeeeeeeease 

[dhcabinian]

Hello! I'm a long time lurker of the GH forums and I recently decided to start a keyboard project. My current implementation includes the following:

• 68% Cherry MX Keys
• RGB Backlight per Key using WS2812B
• RGB Underglow using WS2812B
• Bluetooth using a Bluefruit EZ Key HID
• Battery Charging Circuit

I was wondering if you guys might take a look at my schematic and point out any errors or trouble I may run into. Thanks for any help!

Here is the schematic: http://imgur.com/a/UNtnN

*Credit to Komar777, Jack Humbert, Adafruit and others for their schematics which mine is based on.

** FB Pin in charging circuit has been fixed and updated with new Imgur

[kolec94]

Hello! I'm a long time lurker of the GH forums and I recently decided to start a keyboard project. My current implementation includes the following:

• 68% Cherry MX Keys
• RGB Backlight per Key using WS2812B
• RGB Underglow using WS2812B
• Bluetooth using a Bluefruit EZ Key HID
• Battery Charging Circuit

I was wondering if you guys might take a look at my schematic and point out any errors or trouble I may run into. Thanks for any help!

Here is the schematic: http://imgur.com/a/UNtnN

*Credit to Komar777, Jack Humbert, Adafruit and others for their schematics which mine is based on.

** FB Pin in charging circuit has been fixed and updated with new Imgur

what is the power draw of all those ws2812b's?

[dhcabinian]

Hello! I'm a long time lurker of the GH forums and I recently decided to start a keyboard project. My current implementation includes the following:

• 68% Cherry MX Keys
• RGB Backlight per Key using WS2812B
• RGB Underglow using WS2812B
• Bluetooth using a Bluefruit EZ Key HID
• Battery Charging Circuit

I was wondering if you guys might take a look at my schematic and point out any errors or trouble I may run into. Thanks for any help!

Here is the schematic: http://imgur.com/a/UNtnN

*Credit to Komar777, Jack Humbert, Adafruit and others for their schematics which mine is based on.

** FB Pin in charging circuit has been fixed and updated with new Imgur

what is the power draw of all those ws2812b's?

50mA is quoted in the datasheet. I have since changed the design to sk6812minis. They consume the same 50mA according to the datasheet but apparently other keyboard prototypes have had success with these same LED's by limiting the current consumption via decreasing brightness. Most notable of these is the new 62/60.

[layornos]

Hello all,

i am trying to design a pcb for a ortholinear keyboard which is usable for both sides, like the pcb of the ErgoDox. A diode between UVCC and PIN1 to detect if USB is connected. Someone suggested that in use a jumpers, but i have no clue how i can use them. Can someone help me?

[mrbishop]

looking for the slotted through hole mini usb kicad footprint. for some reason i can't find any. any help would be awesome.

[hasu]

looking for the slotted through hole mini usb kicad footprint. for some reason i can't find any. any help would be awesome.

I use Hirose UX60SC-MB-5S8 on my boards and have KiCAD module.
https://github.com/tmk/keyboard_parts.pretty/blob/master/USB_miniB_hirose_5S8.kicad_mod
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/hirose-electric-co-ltd/UX60SC-MB-5S8/H11589CT-ND/1949225

[mrbishop]

I literally just found that on SnapEDA lol great minds Hasu. Thanks so much.

sent from my chess board

[twiddle]

Just figured I'd post a few shots of my most recent PCBs. This is one of four custom game controller designs developed with my students.
Here's the layout:





And here's the final results. This time I tried out a new supplier - ALLPCB.
From what I can tell, ALLPCB are basically agents with contacts at a ton of different factories in China. You submit your requirements, and they recommend a few different board houses who all give you online quotes. ALLPCB handle talking to the factory for you and so on, regardless.
This time I used WMD Circuits: http://wmdpcb.en.ecplaza.net

I paneled all four designs and sent them through as a single order, standard 1.6mm/6mil trace and space, ENIG finish.
The price for ENIG was very competitive, even including DHL shipping to Australia and 2day rush fees my order was about $120USD for 10 of each panel of the 4 designs (for a total of 40 boards).




Anyways, people always ask about low-cost fabs so I figured I'd throw their name out while I was showing off the layout.

[BlueNalgene]

Anybody feel like helping me diagnose a problem?  My USB D+ line is at ~0V in the attached circuit.  What have I missed?

[twiddle]

Do you need an external pullup on D+ with that chip, or is it internal?
If it's internal I'd verify your firmware is actually enabling it, theres usually a register for 'soft connect' or something like that that you should be using.

[hasu]

UVCC should be connected.

Tapatalk を使用して私の Nexus 5X から送信

[BlueNalgene]

UVCC should be connected.

Tapatalk を使用して私の Nexus 5X から送信

I'm pretty sure this is the answer.  I'll reply back after I work on it again. 

[BlueNalgene]

I'm pretty sure this is the answer.  I'll reply back after I work on it again. 

I'm back.

UVCC should be connected.

UVCC and AVCC are both connected and at 5V.  No USB.  The D+ line is still 0V.

Do you need an external pullup on D+ with that chip, or is it internal?
If it's internal I'd verify your firmware is actually enabling it, theres usually a register for 'soft connect' or something like that that you should be using.

This IC has an internal selectable pullup.  I added a 1.5k pullup on the D+ line just to test.  This makes the D+ the correct voltage, but there is still no response from the computer.

[hasu]

Then I would check oscillation of xtal, load capacitance also should be confirmed with referring to datasheet.

Sent from my Nexus 5X

[regack]

I'm pretty sure this is the answer.  I'll reply back after I work on it again. 

I'm back.

UVCC should be connected.

UVCC and AVCC are both connected and at 5V.  No USB.  The D+ line is still 0V.

Do you need an external pullup on D+ with that chip, or is it internal?
If it's internal I'd verify your firmware is actually enabling it, theres usually a register for 'soft connect' or something like that that you should be using.

This IC has an internal selectable pullup.  I added a 1.5k pullup on the D+ line just to test.  This makes the D+ the correct voltage, but there is still no response from the computer.

I'm not sure if it's strictly required, but the Atmel reference puts a pullup resistor on reset as well.  Other than UVCC to Vcc and and the 10k pullup on reset, my ATMEGA32U2 schematic looks about the same as yours.

[bpiphany]

I've never used any pull-resistors on the data lines. I read somewhere about the 32u4 that you can add one to one of the lines to make it run USB 1.1 (or something like that). The 32u2 lacks this property though.

I've also never used a pull-up on reset.  I've seen different sorts of filters for it, but the only development board I've got that uses one just f#"!s the reset functionality up. The internal pull-up on reset is quite large compared to the rest if I remember correctly, but still I've never heard of spurious resets due to noise or anything else with only the internal pull-up.

[vvp]

I did the same with the two boards I built myself. Only internal pullups on MCU data lines and on its NRST line. No filtering capacitor on ATXMega NRST line (because it is used also as clock for the debugging interface). But I did put there a filtering capacitor on STM32F373 NRST line (pullup still was only internal). It works all fine so far.

[MacGruber117]

Hello! I'm trying to design my first PCB with zero background in electronics. Everything I know about keyboard and PCB design comes from this thread, bpiphany's pcb tutorial, and what I've gleaned from Sparkfun tutorials. Here is the layout I'm trying to design for:



I think I might be jumping right into the deep end with such a large board, but oh well. I'm pretty confident that I wired the matrix correctly in the schematic, but I don't know what is required for in switch LEDs and how that all hooks up to the controller. Could someone point me in the direction of a schematic for a similar sized board with LEDs? Any other advice or tutorials for a noob would be extremely appreciated. Thanks!