[IC] SP SA Yuri / DCS ALPS Yuri (dropping in October)

[T0mb3ry]

It will be dropping only Drop.

Can I ask for the reason? Genuine question. I think the community very strongly prefers local vendors. Is it just the mentioned "inexperience" with vendors? Or does Drop "pay" better? (If you do this for a living then I'd totally understand, don't get me wrong.) I can imagine there is probably greater sales potential on Drop, but at what cost...

I prefer to work with already established partners and it was planned long time ago to run it on drop. It's not about the money.

[Adelscott]

OP

Please do something no one dares on drop : add an ISO-FR kit to your set.

[lz2019]

hello topic starter, is it still possible to count me into the group planing to buy this set of keycaps? 
I am new to this forum, probably 1st time to reach out to buy something in this way.
I am not quite sure what I need to do, pls let me know. Thx. 

[T0mb3ry]

hello topic starter, is it still possible to count me into the group planing to buy this set of keycaps? 
I am new to this forum, probably 1st time to reach out to buy something in this way.
I am not quite sure what I need to do, pls let me know. Thx.

Hello and welcome to Geekhack.

The sale did not started yet. But it will start on Drop in October. Everyone will be able to participate in this sale.

[lz2019]

Great! not too late 
possible to be a bit more specific in time? like beginning or mid Oct ?
thanks.

[T0mb3ry]

Great! not too late 
possible to be a bit more specific in time? like beginning or mid Oct ?
thanks.

The sale will last through whole October. Say it will begin in the first days of October and it will end by the end of October.

[lz2019]

perfect 

[piit79]

I prefer to work with already established partners and it was planned long time ago to run it on drop. It's not about the money.

OK, thanks for the info. Just to be clear, I'd respect it even if it was about the money

[T0mb3ry]

I prefer to work with already established partners and it was planned long time ago to run it on drop. It's not about the money.

OK, thanks for the info. Just to be clear, I'd respect it even if it was about the money

I would get a revenue from any vendor I could run this keyset with. Its not a secret that designers get a revenue and it's a right thing. If you generate money with a design then it's normal praxis to pay revenue. Thing is, I planned this to run with Drop and I've talked with them already like a year ago.

[dead_pixel_design]

Hey T,

Will anything be limited or first-come-first-serve?

[T0mb3ry]

Hey T,

Will anything be limited or first-come-first-serve?

There will be no limits (tho i heard of an limit for the amount of keysets one can buy) and its not first com first serve. It's just a regular group buy.

[T0mb3ry]

Just got new renders from Oblotzky.

[T0mb3ry]

Added new renders with SAR keyboard:

[konstantin]

It looks like the Д legend is sitting slightly higher than it should. Its baseline is just above that of the other characters.

[T0mb3ry]

It looks like the Д legend is sitting slightly higher than it should. Its baseline is just above that of the other characters.

It's on the same base. See the distance to the edge. It's small tales are out of the base which is normal.

[donutcat]

Man, seeing the renders just makes me wish even more numpad had a dual text option too, but I guess that's the numpad-user life.

[T0mb3ry]

Man, seeing the renders just makes me wish even more numpad had a dual text option too, but I guess that's the numpad-user life.

You can still use dual cosmos with Latin mods and numpad for consistency. That works just fine for 1800er layout.

[konstantin]

It's on the same base. See the distance to the edge. It's small tales are out of the base which is normal.

Seems a bit off to me, in the renders at least. If it's aligned in the legend vectors themselves, then I guess it's okay.

[T0mb3ry]

It's on the same base. See the distance to the edge. It's small tales are out of the base which is normal.

Seems a bit off to me, in the renders at least. If it's aligned in the legend vectors themselves, then I guess it's okay.

Show Image

Those are just renders/mockups. For proper alignments of single alphas SP will get an graph with base alignments. The centering will be done during mold manufacturing.

Tho I thought you meant dual alignments before. Those on the other hand are aligned specifically by me. They still need to be centred by SP but the distance between letters on each key are aligned for production.

[matrixzj]

4 days to go, really excited to make it happened.

BTW, will you share SP Color codes for it ?

[T0mb3ry]

4 days to go, really excited to make it happened.

BTW, will you share SP Color codes for it ?

The color codes are BFR, BFM and OAV.

[matrixzj]

4 days to go, really excited to make it happened.

BTW, will you share SP Color codes for it ?

The color codes are BFR, BFM and OAV.

Thanks for kindly sharing to bring this info page up: https://matrixzj.github.io/docs/sa-keycaps/Yuri/

[ctrlshiftbryan]

Any chance of adding a R3 1.75 Control key to the base kit?

[T0mb3ry]

Any chance of adding a R3 1.75 Control key to the base kit?

Good catch I'll add it in the next update - even if its late. I wonder how could I forget it.

This is a good example why an IC is important.

[joric]

Any chance of adding a R3 1.75 Control key to the base kit?

Good catch I'll add it in the next update - even if its late. I wonder how could I forget it.

This is a good example why an IC is important.

Russian brood here. WAIT, don't put it in production! There's no such ****ing thing as ФИКС СДВИГА (CAPS LOCK) it's really, really bad automated translation that makes me puke. Please refer to matt3o russian legends for reference https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17319&start=#p385176

On the other thought, ah **** it, you can survive ФИКС СДВИГА if the only other option is 3ГЛ (SHIFT is usually just РЕГ).

[T0mb3ry]

Any chance of adding a R3 1.75 Control key to the base kit?

Good catch I'll add it in the next update - even if its late. I wonder how could I forget it.

This is a good example why an IC is important.

Russian brood here. WAIT, don't put it in production! There's no such ****ing thing as ФИКС СДВИГА (CAPS LOCK) it's really, really bad automated translation that makes me puke. Please refer to matt3o russian legends for reference https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17319&start=#p385176

On the other thought, ah **** it, you can survive ФИКС СДВИГА if the only other option is 3ГЛ (SHIFT is usually just РЕГ).

I do speak Russian too. This not google translation but the terms are chosen after real functionality. I dont want to use outdated typewriter terms. This is something new.

Tho I am ready to discuss the shift. I had in previous version it as регистр.

[CosmosAtlas]

Wow, glad to see another alps keycaps drop after Alpine. Definitely in for the DCS ALPS Yuri.

[joric]

I do speak Russian too. This not google translation but the terms are chosen after real functionality. I dont want to use outdated typewriter terms. This is something new.

Ok if official ГОСТ 14289-88 symbols seem too short maybe use РЕГИСТР instead of РЕГ and ЗАГЛАВНЫЕ instead of ЗАГ. Just saying,

[T0mb3ry]

I do speak Russian too. This not google translation but the terms are chosen after real functionality. I dont want to use outdated typewriter terms. This is something new.

Ok if official ГОСТ 14289-88 symbols seem too short maybe use РЕГИСТР instead of РЕГ and ЗАГЛАВНЫЕ instead of ЗАГ. Just saying,

I am absolutely against заглавные. Because the term does not cover the real functionality. It is typewriter term. Caps lock is by the way also outdated because now it should be called shift lock.

Регистр on the other hand is right. I had it in my previous version.

[Zephyraeon]

Could a 6.5u space be added to ALPS for AEK compatibility?

[T0mb3ry]

Could a 6.5u space be added to ALPS for AEK compatibility?

I don't think 6.5u spacebar is available and you should keep in mind that you will have to use cherry stabs. So i don't know if its compatible with AEK at all. That set is made more for custom keyboards with alps and cherry stabs.

I do speak Russian too. This not google translation but the terms are chosen after real functionality. I dont want to use outdated typewriter terms. This is something new.

Ok if official ГОСТ 14289-88 symbols seem too short maybe use РЕГИСТР instead of РЕГ and ЗАГЛАВНЫЕ instead of ЗАГ. Just saying,

Another thing. Why its called SHIFT and not REGISTER in western countries? It shifts the register тоо.
По моему мнению, технически и по понятию что эта клавиша на самом деле делает - СДВИГ подходит больше. На самом деле сдвиг тоже перешел от печатнои машинки - но там был сдвиг механизма. Но даже сеичас этот термин актуален, так как он произодит здвиг в регистре. Само слово регистр по себе производит впечатление что есть какое то множественое число этих регистров - но у нас их в этом случае только два. По этому я бы лучше преминил бы регистр как термин для "layers" если програмное обеспечение клавиатуры такое позволяет (например QMK). То что ГОСТ 14289-88 описывает так и не стало стандартом. Если бы был настоящии стандарт, он был бы и стандартом в гос структурах и на рынке, как например ИЗО ДЕ в Германии.

[T0mb3ry]

Update

Modifiers kit
- Added R3 1.75u CONTROL key


Cyrillic modifiers kit
- Added R3 1.75u КОМАНДА key
- Changed key label from КРЛЦ to РУССКИЙ. Cyrillic is a group of alphabets. Yuri implements specifically and obviously the Russian alphabet. So we have to be precise here.


Dual modifiers kit
- Added R3 1.75u КОМАНДА/CONTROL key
- Changed from КРЛЦ/CYRILLIC to РУССКИЙ/RUSSIAN for the same reason as mentioned in the Cyrillic modifiers kit.

[konstantin]

Caps lock is by the way also outdated because now it should be called shift lock.

Isn't Shift Lock actually the one that's outdated? Pressing 1 while caps is one produces 1, not !.

[T0mb3ry]

Caps lock is by the way also outdated because now it should be called shift lock.

Isn't Shift Lock actually the one that's outdated? Pressing 1 while caps is one produces 1, not !.

But it depends on the language package you are using. And it differs always. Nowadays caps lock or shift (also other modifiers) are managed by operating system. AFAIK back in the days it was managed by keyboards. Anyway its basically a "status"/"mode" for the operating system but which symbols are typed depends on the language package (or even in some cases its done by the program/application you typing into) you are currently using. So its a shift lock.

[tucvbif]

There are most often labels for modifier keys, that I saw on soviet keyboards:
Alt — «Доп», «АР» («альтернативный регистр»), «Алт»
Ctrl — «Упр», «УС», «СУ». But «команда», IMO, is more decent label for this button, but I never seen it on soviet keyboards.
Shift — «Загл», «Рег», «Проп», «СПС», «ВР»
Caps Lock — «ФЗБ» (some terminals used otherwise «ФСБ»: фиксация строчных букв), «ФР», «ФВР», «ФП», «Фикс».
Key for change language usually labeled «Р/Л», but also «Алф» is fine too. Also it will be useful in R2×1.75, as replacement for Caps Lock.
BackSpace besides most often case «Забой» («ЗБ») also labeled «Ред» (редактирование) or «ВШ» (возврат на шаг).

[konstantin]

But it depends on the language package you are using. And it differs always. Nowadays caps lock or shift (also other modifiers) are managed by operating system. AFAIK back in the days it was managed by keyboards. Anyway its basically a "status"/"mode" for the operating system but which symbols are typed depends on the language package (or even in some cases its done by the program/application you typing into) you are currently using. So its a shift lock.

It's not Shift Lock exactly because of the reasons you listed. Shift Lock would imply that when this mode was enabled, the non-modifier keys would behave as if Shift were being held. However, this is not the case: Caps Lock is a separate mode that can have a completely independent character mapping (as you said). For example, Caps Lock on the Serbian Programmer layout changes the script from Latin to Cyrillic, which is completely separate from / orthogonal to upper and lower case, which are controlled by Shift. More information here. In conclusion, caps on modern systems is, in fact, Caps Lock and not Shift Lock.

[T0mb3ry]

But it depends on the language package you are using. And it differs always. Nowadays caps lock or shift (also other modifiers) are managed by operating system. AFAIK back in the days it was managed by keyboards. Anyway its basically a "status"/"mode" for the operating system but which symbols are typed depends on the language package (or even in some cases its done by the program/application you typing into) you are currently using. So its a shift lock.

It's not Shift Lock exactly because of the reasons you listed. Shift Lock would imply that when this mode was enabled, the non-modifier keys would behave as if Shift were being held. However, this is not the case: Caps Lock is a separate mode that can have a completely independent character mapping (as you said). For example, Caps Lock on the Serbian Programmer layout changes the script from Latin to Cyrillic, which is completely separate from / orthogonal to upper and lower case, which are controlled by Shift. More information here. In conclusion, caps on modern systems is, in fact, Caps Lock and not Shift Lock.

That's right in the operation system its listed as caps lock however it does not determine how it should behave. As i said, the behavior is determined by the keyboard layout you are using (left bottom corner in Windows for example). I got several keyboard layouts where it acts as caps lock and i got keyboard layouts where it acts as shift lock. And as programmer i can tell you that i can reinterpret it in an application to do more or less than a caps lock. So what is it exactly?

[T0mb3ry]

But it depends on the language package you are using. And it differs always. Nowadays caps lock or shift (also other modifiers) are managed by operating system. AFAIK back in the days it was managed by keyboards. Anyway its basically a "status"/"mode" for the operating system but which symbols are typed depends on the language package (or even in some cases its done by the program/application you typing into) you are currently using. So its a shift lock.

It's not Shift Lock exactly because of the reasons you listed. Shift Lock would imply that when this mode was enabled, the non-modifier keys would behave as if Shift were being held. However, this is not the case: Caps Lock is a separate mode that can have a completely independent character mapping (as you said). For example, Caps Lock on the Serbian Programmer layout changes the script from Latin to Cyrillic, which is completely separate from / orthogonal to upper and lower case, which are controlled by Shift. More information here. In conclusion, caps on modern systems is, in fact, Caps Lock and not Shift Lock.

That's right in the operation system its listed as caps lock however it does not determine how it should behave. As i said, the behavior is determined by the keyboard layout you are using (left bottom corner in Windows for example). I got several keyboard layouts where it acts as caps lock and i got keyboard layouts where it acts as shift lock. And as programmer i can tell you that i can reinterpret it in an application to do more or less than a caps lock. So what is it exactly?

Ahhh yeah. Look what i have found on Wikipedia: In most cases, the status of the Caps Lock key only changes the meaning of the alphabet keys, not that of any other key. Microsoft Windows enforces this behavior only when a keyboard layout for a Latin-based script is active, e.g. the "English (United States)" layout but not the "Persian" layout. However, on certain non-QWERTY keyboard layouts, such as the French AZERTY and the German QWERTZ, Caps Lock still behaves like a traditional Shift lock, i.e., the keyboard behaves as if the Shift key is held down, causing the keyboard to input the alternative values of the keys; example the "5" key generates a "%" when Caps lock is pressed. This is not true for the layout "German (IBM)".
source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caps_Lock

Do you understand my issue with Caps Lock?

[konstantin]

That's what I'm trying to say: the name Caps Lock doesn't mean that it needs to control caps (capital letters); whereas the name Shift Lock does imply that it needs to behave as if Shift were held while the lock is on. Which is not how Caps Lock works on any modern system. Think about it like this: it's called Caps Lock (either for historical reasons, or because that's how it's most frequently used), but it's as you described — a separate mode which behaves differently depending on the active logical layout.

Edit: The Wikipedia bit you quoted backs up what I'm saying

[T0mb3ry]

That's what I'm trying to say: the name Caps Lock doesn't mean that it needs to control caps (capital letters); whereas the name Shift Lock does imply that it needs to behave as if Shift were held while the lock is on. Which is not how Caps Lock works on any modern system. Think about it like this: it's called Caps Lock (either for historical reasons, or because that's how it's most frequently used), but it's as you described — a separate mode which behaves differently depending on the active logical layout.

Edit: The Wikipedia bit you quoted backs up what I'm saying

Good i'll change it to "ЗАГЛАВНЫЕ" because - obviously Yuri does not implement French or German layout. But this knowledge will now make the International kits, which do implement ISO DE, a "Shift Lock" more expensive.....

[T0mb3ry]

Update

Cyrillic modifiers kit
- Changed Shift Lock to Caps Lock

Dual modifiers kit
- Changed Shift Lock to Caps Lock

[mode]

Could a 6.5u space be added to ALPS for AEK compatibility?

The profile wouldn't work at all in an AEK case, the last row is so much taller than the first, it'd look like the last row of DCS is sunken into the keyboard.

[Surefoot]

Good i'll change it to "ЗАГЛАВНЫЕ" because - obviously Yuri does not implement French or German layout. But this knowledge will now make the International kits, which do implement ISO DE, a "Shift Lock" more expensive.....

Since it's fitting the theme for this set, i dont think anyone would complain about having that same label for Intl kit

[Anakey]

I think it always used to be shift lock when looking at vintage boards. I think that Caps Lock was introduced when there were programming languages like APL or ASCII codes on alpha keys that could be input with shift lock, then there was a seperate key for Caps Lock that only input capitals. as programming languages died out due to the manopoly of DoS/Windows it made the shift lock key redundant hence only caps lock was retained.

[spikedsynapse]

I really like this. Can't wait till it shows up on drop.

[LevelSteam]

Looking good! This set is a perfect fit for SA profile, can't wait to join.

[Hackerpilot]

Useless whining:

I was excited when I saw the Ergodox kit, then less so when I saw that it mandates the use of accent and novelty keys. If star spacebars and orange R1 is part of the core of this set's design, why is it not that way on all the modifier kits?

[T0mb3ry]

Useless whining:

I was excited when I saw the Ergodox kit, then less so when I saw that it mandates the use of accent and novelty keys. If star spacebars and orange R1 is part of the core of this set's design, why is it not that way on all the modifier kits?

If you want to have blanks instead of novelties you can buy two spacekeys kits. If i remove those novelties people who want it with novelties will need to buy two novelties kits which is obviously more expensive than buying just two spacekeys kits.

Another reason for it is, i want it so. I did it in every Carbon round and GMK Yuri and i repeat this tradition here too.

[iammeuru]

Could a 6.5u space be added to ALPS for AEK compatibility?

I don't think 6.5u spacebar is available and you should keep in mind that you will have to use cherry stabs. So i don't know if its compatible with AEK at all. That set is made more for custom keyboards with alps and cherry stabs.

So, that's not 100% true on the requirement to use Cherry stabs... you can use costar inserts, and stabilizer wires from something like a k104 which natively supported that (amongst other boards), also making custom alps wires is dead simple. I would actually argue that there are more folks using costar inserts than cherry screw-in, plate mount, or clip-in stabilizers when using the DCS Alps, Tai-Hao Alps, or DSA Alps sets available... There are very few customs that offer alps, and even fewer where the PCB and/or plate support cherry stabilizers.

With a custom set though, I doubt many folks would choose the AEK layout over standard ANSI or Tsangan... even ISO is likely going to be more popular of a choice. Most AEK supporting boards would just use AEK Caps... Also, on the top row for AEK you'd need sideways center stems.

I really want to see numpad with that 1u numpad zero key for 1800 and full size support, which I feel would be more likely than AEK or ISO, since 1800 is where there is a bunch of current (or recent) customs with Alps support (TKC1800 and HBCP, the former of which even supports cherry screw-in stabs, and the PCB works in the TX1800 as well)...

[mimalik]

Thx for new renders, helped me to confirm my prospective kit purchases (basically 1 of each kit). Cant wait for this drop to kick off.