Prototyping New Keyboard Designs (Using Plate Mounting and Direct Wiring)

[TD22057]

Just an FYI - the CAD files in my previous posts contain the same stabilizer error that the phantom boards have.  They tried to make a stabilizer mount that would accept Cherry or Costar stabilizers and it causes the Cherry ones to not quite lock in place.  Doesn't seem to be a big problem on my plates but it is a mistake that should be fixed.  Other than that, my CAD files worked perfectly and everything fits well.

I'm in the process of soldering up the matrix and I now know why people like a PCB.  It's not difficult but it takes a lot of time to get all the wires prepped and to make all the connections.  If I ever do this again, I might have to spring for a PCB design since my time is more valuable than the money would be.  I'm going to start a build thread and post pictures there sometime this weekend.

[TD22057]

I've finished wiring up and testing my keyboard matrix today.  I ended up using the diodes in the switches using a small jumper wire except for a few of them that I modded (dremel+hot melt glue) to have an LED.  Next step is finishing the firmware update (need to add I2C code to hasu's firmware to communicate to the right hand module) and designing and building the case.  Then I get to do it all again since I'm making one keyboard for work and one for home.  Still a ways to go but progress is being made...

[jdcarpe]

Very nice, TD. I can't wait to see the finished version. Thank you for sharing your build log with us. It looks like you are coming along quite nicely, and will soon have this working to your specs. I love to see this type of innovation going on here.

It's like I told my wife the other night... On Geekhack, if there is something we need or want that doesn't exist, or isn't quite perfect, we either make it ourselves, or have it made for us. We simply refuse to accept that we can't have what we want.

[bueller]

Picked up the plate and case from the laser cutters this morning only to discover they'd totally fubared it. Stab and switch holes are off in about 8 places and they've burnt  the **** out of it in several spots too. So unimpressed, waiting on the idiots to get back to me now.

[TD22057]

Picked up the plate and case from the laser cutters this morning only to discover they'd totally fubared it. Stab and switch holes are off in about 8 places and they've burnt  the **** out of it in several spots too. So unimpressed, waiting on the idiots to get back to me now.

Wow - that sucks.  Hopefully they will re-run it for you.  How can they screw up the locations when the laser is driven by a CAD file?  Did the plate move during the cutting?

I couldn't resist adding keycaps to my switches to see how it's going to look.  It's amazing how well the color combinations from the DSA retro GB worked on for my build.  Everything is nice and symmetric and looks fantastic.

[bueller]

Picked up the plate and case from the laser cutters this morning only to discover they'd totally fubared it. Stab and switch holes are off in about 8 places and they've burnt  the **** out of it in several spots too. So unimpressed, waiting on the idiots to get back to me now.

Wow - that sucks.  Hopefully they will re-run it for you.  How can they screw up the locations when the laser is driven by a CAD file?  Did the plate move during the cutting?

I couldn't resist adding keycaps to my switches to see how it's going to look.  It's amazing how well the color combinations from the DSA retro GB worked on for my build.  Everything is nice and symmetric and looks fantastic.

I'm still struggling to figure out how the hell they managed to screw it up, the slots that are misaligned have all moved by a couple of mm in the same direction and the same goes for the switches. Seems to me like they've actually stuffed up the CAD file somehow. Still waiting on a reply to my email, they'd want to run me another one otherwise I'll be speaking with the ACCC as they have clearly not fulfilled the request.

Your ergo looks incredible by the way! Guessing you still need to wire it all up?

[TD22057]

Your ergo looks incredible by the way! Guessing you still need to wire it all up?

Mostly done - (see 3 posts up).  The matrix is fully wired.  I need to hook up the teensy, finish the firmware mods I'm making, and build the case.

[jeffgran]

@TD: Looks great with those caps on there! Cool to see it coming together. What are your plans for the case?

[esoomenona]

Very nice, TD. I can't wait to see the finished version. Thank you for sharing your build log with us. It looks like you are coming along quite nicely, and will soon have this working to your specs. I love to see this type of innovation going on here.

It's like I told my wife the other night... On Geekhack, if there is something we need or want that doesn't exist, or isn't quite perfect, we either make it ourselves, or have it made for us. We simply refuse to accept that we can't have what we want.

I was there. He said that.

[TD22057]

@TD: Looks great with those caps on there! Cool to see it coming together. What are your plans for the case?

I have the plate screwed onto 0.5" threaded standoffs so I can screw it onto a base and leave space for the wiring.  I'm going to make a 3/8"-1/2" thick base from baltic birch plywood that's a little bigger than the plates and screw up through it into the standoffs to secure the plate.  The teensy and usb hub PCB's will get mounted in small recessed areas in the plywood.  Then I'm going to make a shell with an integrated hand rest from some nice hardwood - mahogany or walnut probably - that will fit over the top and cover the plywood base plate for each of the three pieces.  I'm thinking about embedding some rare earth magnets and metal disks on the inside of the shell with thin veneer of wood over them on the edges.  That way each of the three pieces can be separate or connected to the others in whatever order I want.

[bueller]

Laser cutters have come through for me, they apologised profusely and re-cut the plate this afternoon. I'll be spewing if my switches arrive tomorrow, can't get down to pick up the new plate till Monday :S

[TD22057]

Laser cutters have come through for me, they apologised profusely and re-cut the plate this afternoon. I'll be spewing if my switches arrive tomorrow, can't get down to pick up the new plate till Monday :S

Glad they came through for you.  Do they have any idea what the problem was?  FYI - my plates did have some light burning - especially around the areas where the laser punches through to start the switch holes.  I used a random orbit sander with 150, 180, and 220 grit paper to clean it up and almost all the burn marks were completely gone.   I ended up w/ a sort of "stone washed" type finish.  Up close you can see a random scratch patter but a few feet back and it looks like a nice uniform finish (and it's hidden by the keys anyway).

[bueller]

Laser cutters have come through for me, they apologised profusely and re-cut the plate this afternoon. I'll be spewing if my switches arrive tomorrow, can't get down to pick up the new plate till Monday :S

Glad they came through for you.  Do they have any idea what the problem was?  FYI - my plates did have some light burning - especially around the areas where the laser punches through to start the switch holes.  I used a random orbit sander with 150, 180, and 220 grit paper to clean it up and almost all the burn marks were completely gone.   I ended up w/ a sort of "stone washed" type finish.  Up close you can see a random scratch patter but a few feet back and it looks like a nice uniform finish (and it's hidden by the keys anyway).

I actually remembered them saying they were having some problems with their laser cutter a few weeks ago and on closer inspection it looks like the process may have been re-started on a couple of holes so I'm guessing that was the problem. Cheers for the recommendation on sanding too, they scratched the hell out of the piece as well so I was wondering how to get it cleaned up!

[HoffmanMyster]

Just sent off for the final quote on my design! Just hoping the cost doesn't blow out too much, got quoted $29 for the plate and base only in 2mm aluminium so I don't think adding the 3mm case layers will add too much. Also wound up changing the plate to 1.5mm for my first custom, didn't want to run into problems so early in the game.

EDIT: Updated attachments to reflect correct space bar stabilizer AND backspace positions, also changed the thickness of the case to allow an extra mm gap between itself and the switches.

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Two questions for you:
1. Do your stabilizer slots allow for only particular types of stabilizers to be used?
2. I wanted to try the 40% case in the OP that JD designed, but I'm not ready to give up that many keys yet, and I absolutely love your layout design.  Would you be offended if there were another case just like yours in the world?  (I know you posted the .dwg files, but I want to ask anyway)

[bueller]

Just sent off for the final quote on my design! Just hoping the cost doesn't blow out too much, got quoted $29 for the plate and base only in 2mm aluminium so I don't think adding the 3mm case layers will add too much. Also wound up changing the plate to 1.5mm for my first custom, didn't want to run into problems so early in the game.

EDIT: Updated attachments to reflect correct space bar stabilizer AND backspace positions, also changed the thickness of the case to allow an extra mm gap between itself and the switches.

Show Image

Show Image

Two questions for you:
1. Do your stabilizer slots allow for only particular types of stabilizers to be used?
2. I wanted to try the 40% case in the OP that JD designed, but I'm not ready to give up that many keys yet, and I absolutely love your layout design.  Would you be offended if there were another case just like yours in the world?  (I know you posted the .dwg files, but I want to ask anyway)

Yep those stabiliser slots are for Co-Star stabilisers however they are available new from WASD and they're dead cheap.

And no problems if you want to use my design, I'd be pretty chuffed to see another one like mine across the pond! I piggy-backed off Matt3o's design anyway 

[HoffmanMyster]

Two questions for you:
1. Do your stabilizer slots allow for only particular types of stabilizers to be used?
2. I wanted to try the 40% case in the OP that JD designed, but I'm not ready to give up that many keys yet, and I absolutely love your layout design.  Would you be offended if there were another case just like yours in the world?  (I know you posted the .dwg files, but I want to ask anyway)

Yep those stabiliser slots are for Co-Star stabilisers however they are available new from WASD and they're dead cheap.

And no problems if you want to use my design, I'd be pretty chuffed to see another one like mine across the pond! I piggy-backed off Matt3o's design anyway 

Great to know, the slots looked a bit different from Cherry.  Thanks!

And thanks for the approval!  I've sent it out to local shops to hopefully get some quotes.    Here's hoping it all comes together!

EDIT:  Also, a question for jdcarpe.
The 40% on the front page is still intriguing to me, but it's tough to match up the plate design to what an actual layout would be with it.  I took some time and made this layout design which I think matches up.  Can you confirm?

[neoezekiel]

Had a great idea I would like to try out, do you think you could design a plate for this layout? (Only if you have the time of course) http://ne0.cc/laygen/#Tab%3A%3A1%20%20Q%3A%3A1%20%20W%3A%3A1%20%20E%3A%3A1%20%20R%3A%3A1%20%20T%3A%3A1%20%20Y%3A%3A1%20%20U%3A%3A1%20%20I%3A%3A1%20%20O%3A%3A1%20%20P%3A%3A1%20%20Back%3A%3A1%20%20Del%3A%3A1%24%24%0AEsc%3A%3A1%20%20A%3A%3A1%20%20S%3A%3A1%20%20D%3A%3A1%20%20F%3A%3A1%20%20G%3A%3A1%20%20H%3A%3A1%20%20J%3A%3A1%20%20K%3A%3A1%20%20L%3A%3A1%20%20%3A%3B%3A%3A1%20%20%22%27%3A%3A1%20%20Enter%3A%3A1%24%24%0AShift%3A%3A1%20%20Z%3A%3A1%20%20X%3A%3A1%20%20C%3A%3A1%20%20V%3A%3A1%20%20B%3A%3A1%20%20N%3A%3A1%20%20M%3A%3A1%20%20/%3F%3A%3A1%20%20%3C%2C%3A%3A1%20%20%3E.%3A%3A1%20%20Up%3A%3A1%20%20Fn%3A%3A1%24%24%0ACtrl%3A%3A1%20%20Alt%3A%3A1%20%20Num%3A%3A1%20%20Space%3A%3A6%20%20Win%3A%3A1%20%20Left%3A%3A1%20%20Down%3A%3A1%20%20Rght%3A%3A1%24%24

[bueller]

I'd be careful with unstaggered alpha layouts, if you've never used them before they take a bit of getting used to. Main reason I sold my Truly ergonomic, couldn't get used to the unstaggered rows.

[neoezekiel]

I have used unstaggered rows before, I want to try out  a few ideas based off of them so I thought prototyping a plate based design would be a good starting point.


One idea is this:
http://ne0.cc/laygen/#Tab%3A%3A1%20%20Q%3A%3A1%20%20W%3A%3A1%20%20E%3A%3A1%20%20R%3A%3A1%20%20T%3A%3A1%20%20Y%3A%3A1%20%20U%3A%3A1%20%20I%3A%3A1%20%20O%3A%3A1%20%20P%3A%3A1%20%20Back%3A%3A1%20%20Del%3A%3A1%24%24%0AEsc%3A%3A1%20%20A%3A%3A1%20%20S%3A%3A1%20%20D%3A%3A1%20%20F%3A%3A1%20%20G%3A%3A1%20%20H%3A%3A1%20%20J%3A%3A1%20%20K%3A%3A1%20%20L%3A%3A1%20%20%3A%3B%3A%3A1%20%20%22%27%3A%3A1%20%20Enter%3A%3A1%24%24%0AShift%3A%3A1%20%20Z%3A%3A1%20%20X%3A%3A1%20%20C%3A%3A1%20%20V%3A%3A1%20%20B%3A%3A1%20%20N%3A%3A1%20%20M%3A%3A1%20%20/%3F%3A%3A1%20%20%3C%2C%3A%3A1%20%20%3E.%3A%3A1%20%20Up%3A%3A1%20%20Fn%3A%3A1%24%24%0ACtrl%3A%3A1%20%20Alt%3A%3A1%20%20Num%3A%3A1%20%20Space%3A%3A3%20%20Win%3A%3A1%20%20Hyper%3A%3A1%20%20Super%3A%3A1%20%20Lock%3A%3A1%20%20Left%3A%3A1%20%20Down%3A%3A1%20%20Rght%3A%3A1%24%24

I like modifiers, and I miss the concept of the "Lock" toggle key to lock a modifier in the on state until toggled back.
I have a love for 1x1 modifiers that cannot be stopped!

A small multilayer board it the final goal (sort of like the space cadet), perhaps even split at some point.

[jdcarpe]

EDIT:  Also, a question for jdcarpe.
The 40% on the front page is still intriguing to me, but it's tough to match up the plate design to what an actual layout would be with it.  I took some time and made this layout design which I think matches up.  Can you confirm?

Yes, that would definitely work. I was thinkning of something like this.

but I might like aspects of yours better.

[HoffmanMyster]

EDIT:  Also, a question for jdcarpe.
The 40% on the front page is still intriguing to me, but it's tough to match up the plate design to what an actual layout would be with it.  I took some time and made this layout design which I think matches up.  Can you confirm?

Yes, that would definitely work. I was thinkning of something like this.

but I might like aspects of yours better.

Haha, that just made me realize I forgot a '.' in mine.  I never use that one anyway...   

But good!  Thanks for the confirmation, it's much appreciated.    In addition to what keys would go where I also couldn't visual what sizes the keys would be, but now that I see your "intended" layout it helps a lot.  Thanks again!  Now I just need to find a local machinist who will actually respond to my quote requests....   

[FiskFisk33]

I'd much prefer to have a full-sized backspace key, and settle for no 'delete'.

Something tells me you're not a windows user!

[yasuo]

Sorry distrub
I want ask in here what name on the matrix/column ?
whether is wiring or what?

Thanks

[Melvang]

I want ask what name on the matrix

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What switches?

[yasuo]

I want ask what name on the matrix

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What switches?

not,like wiring?

[Matt3o]

you want to know the kind of wire to use? I actually used any kind and all worked The one in the picture seems at least 1mm

[yasuo]

you want to know the kind of wire to use? I actually used any kind and all worked The one in the picture seems at least 1mm

Oh thanks matteo   apparently a wire
what different with your wire and what type of wire from you and lowpoly?

[Matt3o]

the difference is that mine is insulated, lowpoly's is not. With very tight enclosures I suggest the insulated one, if you have a lot of space, the raw wire is good enough since you don't risk shorts.

[boogerlad]

Hi, can someone make a dwg of

What is the maximum thickness of the steel plate?

[bueller]

You can't actually fit 3 keys underneath the enter where you have HOME/END/UP ARROW etc, there's only enough space for 2.75 keys.

[boogerlad]

Let's shift the delete, print screen, arrow keys, home, end, and number pad .25 keys to the right then. I wouldn't mind the non uniform gap between the number pad and the rest of the keyboard.

[Matt3o]

Let's shift the delete, print screen, arrow keys, home, end, and number pad .25 keys to the right then. I wouldn't mind the non uniform gap between the number pad and the rest of the keyboard.

I would suggest to shift the arrows+home/end only. It would so much easier to find the arrow cluster without looking that way.

[boogerlad]

The delete and printscreen button are a bit close to the spacebar anyways, as bueller implied. This wasn't a very good image editing job... I hope there are no more incompatibilities.
Did you mean to shift the arrow keys + home/end more than 0.25 keys to the right so that the distance between the arrow keys and delete/printscreen(shifted only 0.25 keys to the right) is larger?

[jdcarpe]

Hi, can someone make a dwg of

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What is the maximum thickness of the steel plate?

Hopefully this is what you wanted. That left shift is 2.00 units, btw.



The maximum thickness for the steel plate, as specified by the Cherry spec sheet, should be .060 inches, but the closest commonly available is 16-gauge, or 1/16 (0.0625) inch (1.5 mm), so that is what we normally use.

Also, the attached plate is drawn in mm, which would be handy for your laser cutter to know. :)

[jdcarpe]

Had a great idea I would like to try out, do you think you could design a plate for this layout? (Only if you have the time of course) http://ne0.cc/laygen/#Tab%3A%3A1%20%20Q%3A%3A1%20%20W%3A%3A1%20%20E%3A%3A1%20%20R%3A%3A1%20%20T%3A%3A1%20%20Y%3A%3A1%20%20U%3A%3A1%20%20I%3A%3A1%20%20O%3A%3A1%20%20P%3A%3A1%20%20Back%3A%3A1%20%20Del%3A%3A1%24%24%0AEsc%3A%3A1%20%20A%3A%3A1%20%20S%3A%3A1%20%20D%3A%3A1%20%20F%3A%3A1%20%20G%3A%3A1%20%20H%3A%3A1%20%20J%3A%3A1%20%20K%3A%3A1%20%20L%3A%3A1%20%20%3A%3B%3A%3A1%20%20%22%27%3A%3A1%20%20Enter%3A%3A1%24%24%0AShift%3A%3A1%20%20Z%3A%3A1%20%20X%3A%3A1%20%20C%3A%3A1%20%20V%3A%3A1%20%20B%3A%3A1%20%20N%3A%3A1%20%20M%3A%3A1%20%20/%3F%3A%3A1%20%20%3C%2C%3A%3A1%20%20%3E.%3A%3A1%20%20Up%3A%3A1%20%20Fn%3A%3A1%24%24%0ACtrl%3A%3A1%20%20Alt%3A%3A1%20%20Num%3A%3A1%20%20Space%3A%3A6%20%20Win%3A%3A1%20%20Left%3A%3A1%20%20Down%3A%3A1%20%20Rght%3A%3A1%24%24

Here you go. This uses a center-stemmed 6.00-unit spacebar.



This plate drawing is also in mm.

[boogerlad]

Wow! That was a very fast response. Thanks so much! Even better than I envisioned!

[neoezekiel]

Had a great idea I would like to try out, do you think you could design a plate for this layout? (Only if you have the time of course) http://ne0.cc/laygen/#Tab%3A%3A1%20%20Q%3A%3A1%20%20W%3A%3A1%20%20E%3A%3A1%20%20R%3A%3A1%20%20T%3A%3A1%20%20Y%3A%3A1%20%20U%3A%3A1%20%20I%3A%3A1%20%20O%3A%3A1%20%20P%3A%3A1%20%20Back%3A%3A1%20%20Del%3A%3A1%24%24%0AEsc%3A%3A1%20%20A%3A%3A1%20%20S%3A%3A1%20%20D%3A%3A1%20%20F%3A%3A1%20%20G%3A%3A1%20%20H%3A%3A1%20%20J%3A%3A1%20%20K%3A%3A1%20%20L%3A%3A1%20%20%3A%3B%3A%3A1%20%20%22%27%3A%3A1%20%20Enter%3A%3A1%24%24%0AShift%3A%3A1%20%20Z%3A%3A1%20%20X%3A%3A1%20%20C%3A%3A1%20%20V%3A%3A1%20%20B%3A%3A1%20%20N%3A%3A1%20%20M%3A%3A1%20%20/%3F%3A%3A1%20%20%3C%2C%3A%3A1%20%20%3E.%3A%3A1%20%20Up%3A%3A1%20%20Fn%3A%3A1%24%24%0ACtrl%3A%3A1%20%20Alt%3A%3A1%20%20Num%3A%3A1%20%20Space%3A%3A6%20%20Win%3A%3A1%20%20Left%3A%3A1%20%20Down%3A%3A1%20%20Rght%3A%3A1%24%24

Here you go. This uses a center-stemmed 6.00-unit spacebar.

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This plate drawing is also in mm. :)

You are my keyboard hero of the week  ::thumb::
I was struggling with sketchup for a few hours tonight trying to make this plate before I saw that you had posted a reply.
So excited about prototyping it this weekend.

[esoomenona]

Maybe it would be nice to have a left shift be 1.75x and the right shift be 1.25x. At least then, there are existing shift keys somewhere that work.

[Melvang]

What do you guys think of this layout.  Never mind the empty keys toward the right side.  They are just place holders to position the "navigation clusters" where I wanted them.

Melvang

Edit: changed the P/P which was play/pause to Windows key

[SpAmRaY]

What do you guys think of this layout.  Never mind the empty keys toward the right side.  They are just place holders to position the "navigation clusters" where I wanted them.

Melvang

that spacebar

[Melvang]

I guess it was produced at one point and I have read references to it in old posts but can't seem to locate one or even a pic on one.

Edit:  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41464.690 reply number 697 and I quote "I wish I still had my 15 units... but I used it to stir some paint then threw it out LOL."  Posted by IvanIvanovich.  The ensuing conversation get both disappointing and humorous at the same time.

[SpAmRaY]

crazy layout FTW!! 

[Melvang]

I like it but I would shift the bottom 2 rows back to the left a touch just so its centered with the other 3 rows.

[alaricljs]

Or deal with a 1x left shift and shrink one of the left mods by .25.   That stagger change on the alphas would kill me tho.

[SpAmRaY]

I like it but I would shift the bottom 2 rows back to the left a touch just so its centered with the other 3 rows.

Of course I don't guess there are any 2x shift keys...

[CPTBadAss]

What do you guys think of this layout.  Never mind the empty keys toward the right side.  They are just place holders to position the "navigation clusters" where I wanted them.

Melvang

Edit: changed the P/P which was play/pause to Windows key

Why in the world is the control where delete is. And caps lock where it normally is? You never use control?

[Melvang]

What do you guys think of this layout.  Never mind the empty keys toward the right side.  They are just place holders to position the "navigation clusters" where I wanted them.

Melvang

Edit: changed the P/P which was play/pause to Windows key

Why in the world is the control where delete is. And caps lock where it normally is? You never use control?

Not really bout the only time I use control is to open all my bags in WoW (easy to replace that with a macro on my Orbweaver) or Ctrl+Alt+Delete.  Plus with this layout I can keep the look of the 1.5, 1, 1.5 mods setup.  But mostly just to be different.  I type more here on geekhack than anywhere else.  Mostly I am just a PC gamer that sticks with WoW.  And no I don't think that I am getting a competitive edge with my mechanical boards I just love the feel of them.

[CPTBadAss]

You're crazy. I use control a looooooot. But I also work on my computer most of the time.

[Hypersphere]

Here is a keyboard layout I would like to have. I trust that someone can do the corresponding plate template for it.

[Melvang]

Well I take that back I do you control more than that but the only other thing I really use it for is Ctrl+Enter for website shortcut for .com and the http:// in one keystroke.