[IC] KAT Atlantis | UPDATE #12: Rama Cap & Artisans 2/27

[eskimojo]

M is the uppercase form of µ. Does the key only allow for lowercase output? (genuine question, I have no experience with AZERTY)

There is the ISO FR layout:

Show Image

As you can see the M and µ are on different keys, µ is the shifted variant of the * key.
There are 3rd level sublegends too for the right alt combinations ("Alt Gr.")

Ah, I'd forgotten it was the shifted version. That does make sense - in this case (Atlantis) I think it was a stylistic choice as all the other letters are uppercase.

[Surefoot]

Ah, I'd forgotten it was the shifted version. That does make sense - in this case (Atlantis) I think it was a stylistic choice as all the other letters are uppercase.

Oh true, it's just that M has its own key, that is a specific symbol (and to be honest, almost never used outside of scientific notations...)

[beekey]

This is awesome. Will be getting some kits for sure.

[dededecline]

Love this set! Any chance of legends on the ergo set?

[psxndc]

YES I love it! I'm 100% in now that Colemak is added

1000% this. Colevrak means instabuy.

[Adelscott]

Hey guys! I have a big update for you today

Changes
-Added French kit

Thanks again !

Edit : Is the french kit complete ? Shouldn't it have the 2 ISO Enter and the 1.25U Shift ?

[Rensuya]

Love this set! Any chance of legends on the ergo set?

I made a straw poll just for this! Vote for which you would like, let your ergo friends know as well 

http://www.strawpoll.me/18730928  <--- Vote here for Ergo having legends

[Rensuya]

Hey guys! I have a big update for you today

Changes
-Added French kit

Thanks again !

Edit : Is the french kit complete ? Shouldn't it have the 2 ISO Enter and the 1.25U Shift ?

Just an error on my part, I fixed it! 

[Adelscott]

Perfect, thanks 

[Puddsy]

creatures kit is fun, and i usually don't like novelties

[IndyBuck]

Colevrak users. Can you help a noob understand this layout? From my research I’m gathering that it’s a combination of Colemak and Dvorak layouts, correct? Is it a more optimal typing layout? Why is an additional key set needed for Colevrak layouts? Thanks for the help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hackerpilot]

Colevrak users. Can you help a noob understand this layout? From my research I’m gathering that it’s a combination of Colemak and Dvorak layouts, correct? Is it a more optimal typing layout? Why is an additional key set needed for Colevrak layouts? Thanks for the help!

There is no colevrak layout. It's just a name for an add-on kit that will let you make Colemak, Dvorak, or some other layout when combined with the normal alphas.

[IndyBuck]

Colevrak users. Can you help a noob understand this layout? From my research I’m gathering that it’s a combination of Colemak and Dvorak layouts, correct? Is it a more optimal typing layout? Why is an additional key set needed for Colevrak layouts? Thanks for the help!

There is no colevrak layout. It's just a name for an add-on kit that will let you make Colemak, Dovrak, or some other layout when combined with the normal alphas.

Ah I see. I’m a moron thanks for the help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QuickDelat]

M is the uppercase form of µ. Does the key only allow for lowercase output? (genuine question, I have no experience with AZERTY)

There is the ISO FR layout:

Show Image

As you can see the M and µ are on different keys, µ is the shifted variant of the * key.
There are 3rd level sublegends too for the right alt combinations ("Alt Gr.")

Ah, I'd forgotten it was the shifted version. That does make sense - in this case (Atlantis) I think it was a stylistic choice as all the other letters are uppercase.

I guess that makes sense then from a design point.
It looks odd to me because it would mean 2 M keys very close to each other.
And while µ is a Greek letter, it isn't used as a letter in French (as far as I know, I'm not a native French speaker).

[Surefoot]

It looks odd to me because it would mean 2 M keys very close to each other.
And while µ is a Greek letter, it isn't used as a letter in French (as far as I know, I'm not a native French speaker).

It is not used indeed. It's only for scientific measurement units.

[JSaintS]

no plans on adding a text modifiers kit for ISO users or supporting it in the already existing text modifiers kit? You'd only need 2 more keys

[depletedvespene]

M is the uppercase form of µ. Does the key only allow for lowercase output? (genuine question, I have no experience with AZERTY)

There is the ISO FR layout:

Show Image

As you can see the M and µ are on different keys, µ is the shifted variant of the * key.
There are 3rd level sublegends too for the right alt combinations ("Alt Gr.")

Ah, I'd forgotten it was the shifted version. That does make sense - in this case (Atlantis) I think it was a stylistic choice as all the other letters are uppercase.

I guess that makes sense then from a design point.
It looks odd to me because it would mean 2 M keys very close to each other.
And while µ is a Greek letter, it isn't used as a letter in French (as far as I know, I'm not a native French speaker).

It looks odd because that μ is actually µ and therefore shouldn't have been placed in uppercase. I'll explain:

μ (U+03BC) is the Greek lowercase letter mu (from which the Latin letter m was derived).
µ (U+00B5) is the "micro" (10^-6) symbol (which is DERIVED from the letter mu, of course).

French keyboards (and German keyboards, too) have the micro symbol, not the mu letter.


And yes, in some fonts, both characters look the same... others take care to make them a bit different, so you can tell which is which.

[eskimojo]

M is the uppercase form of µ. Does the key only allow for lowercase output? (genuine question, I have no experience with AZERTY)

There is the ISO FR layout:

Show Image

As you can see the M and µ are on different keys, µ is the shifted variant of the * key.
There are 3rd level sublegends too for the right alt combinations ("Alt Gr.")

Ah, I'd forgotten it was the shifted version. That does make sense - in this case (Atlantis) I think it was a stylistic choice as all the other letters are uppercase.

I guess that makes sense then from a design point.
It looks odd to me because it would mean 2 M keys very close to each other.
And while µ is a Greek letter, it isn't used as a letter in French (as far as I know, I'm not a native French speaker).

It looks odd because that μ is actually µ and therefore shouldn't have been placed in uppercase. I'll explain:

μ (U+03BC) is the Greek lowercase letter mu (from which the Latin letter m was derived).
µ (U+00B5) is the "micro" (10^-6) symbol (which is DERIVED from the letter mu, of course).

French keyboards (and German keyboards, too) have the micro symbol, not the mu letter.


And yes, in some fonts, both characters look the same... others take care to make them a bit different, so you can tell which is which.

TIL

Will have to take note of this, thanks  :D

[depletedvespene]

I'm taking a second look now at the kits. Why do the ISO and French kits have the Enter key in R1-R2 instead of R2-R3?

In the ISO kit, shouldn't the "upper" R1 line of alphas be marked as R2 as well? Also, it should also contain R2 \| keys (for full support of US English over ISO and ANSISO).

Heck, why is the ISO kit called "ISO", anyways? Given the other two are "French" and "North", why not call this one "English" (as it's meant for UK(+US) English)?

[JSaintS]

I'm taking a second look now at the kits. Why do the ISO and French kits have the Enter key in R1-R2 instead of R2-R3?

In the ISO kit, shouldn't the "upper" R1 line of alphas be marked as R2 as well? Also, it should also contain R2 \| keys (for full support of US English over ISO and ANSISO).

Heck, why is the ISO kit called "ISO", anyways? Given the other two are "French" and "North", why not call this one "English" (as it's meant for UK(+US) English)?

Enter keys should indeed be R3 and the row "upper" R1 line is indeed a R2 row I believe he is going to correct that soon.

ISO for me means UK ISO and I believe that's the case for a lot of people. As Jae from Top Clack what ISO is and he will probably not talk about ANSISO

Is ANSISO really used as a layout? I assumed it is less used than pure ISO alone but I might be mistaken.

[depletedvespene]

…
ISO for me means UK ISO and I believe that's the case for a lot of people. As Jae from Top Clack what ISO is and he will probably not talk about ANSISO

The erroneous (YMMV) conflation of "UK English national layout" and "ISO physical layout" is a big part of the reason for the confusion, and that's what needs to change in order to solve the "ISO disagreement" (to call it mildly).

This is why I've taken to write "UK English over ISO" and "US English over ISO or ANSISO" in full all the time, to make it clearer (even if it does come off as a bit pedantic). Once we get past that confusion, we could talk about "exotic" stuff as well, like the German layout over ISANSI (something that CAN be done, thanks to wodan's HADapter).

Is ANSISO really used as a layout? I assumed it is less used than pure ISO alone but I might be mistaken.

It is, obviously, not seen a lot today, but back in the '80s it was common to see ANSISO keyboards for personal computers; remember that during that time, terminal keyboards ALL had vertical Enter keys ("regular ISO" in IBM keyboards, or "thin ISO" in DEC and DEC-style units), so many users preferred the vertical Enter over the horizontal ("ANSI") one, even while using the US English national layout. Check out this Ortek MCK-142 keyboard for a particularly good example of it.

NOWADAYS, as people into this hobby try out things and build their own keyboards, they can well try out the vertical Enter! And if using the US English national layout, they don't HAVE to suffer with the "short left Shift" if they don't want to, either. Modern PCBs support either Enter key without issue and are capable of transparently determining the position of the \| key (R2 or R3), so... let the users have the option to use horizontal or vertical Enter keys (*). Even if they are 'muricans with no interest in using anything other than the US English national layout and the long left Shift.


(*) But not BAE. EEEEWWWW.

[dvorcol]

I'm taking a second look now at the kits. Why do the ISO and French kits have the Enter key in R1-R2 instead of R2-R3?

In the ISO kit, shouldn't the "upper" R1 line of alphas be marked as R2 as well? Also, it should also contain R2 \| keys (for full support of US English over ISO and ANSISO).

Heck, why is the ISO kit called "ISO", anyways? Given the other two are "French" and "North", why not call this one "English" (as it's meant for UK(+US) English)?

Enter keys should indeed be R3 and the row "upper" R1 line is indeed a R2 row I believe he is going to correct that soon.

ISO for me means UK ISO and I believe that's the case for a lot of people. As Jae from Top Clack what ISO is and he will probably not talk about ANSISO

Is ANSISO really used as a layout? I assumed it is less used than pure ISO alone but I might be mistaken.

KAT row labels are bottom-up, not the typical top-down.  Atlantis Text Mod labels are correct.  But still, the ISO kit labels aren't perfect.

[HOBI3CAT]

Just found this and gotta say it looks amazing!!!! Really really looking forward to the GB!

Also, just curious, but why is there a tab key for the alt alphas when it is already in the modifiers kits?

Also, +1 for "KATlantis"

[JSaintS]

Just found this and gotta say it looks amazing!!!! Really really looking forward to the GB!

Also, just curious, but why is there a tab key for the alt alphas when it is already in the modifiers kits?

Also, +1 for "KATlantis"

That's to allow people that buy that kit and the common alpha kit to fill 2 boards with the modifiers kit, iirc.

[HOBI3CAT]

Just found this and gotta say it looks amazing!!!! Really really looking forward to the GB!

Also, just curious, but why is there a tab key for the alt alphas when it is already in the modifiers kits?

Also, +1 for "KATlantis"

That's to allow people that buy that kit and the common alpha kit to fill 2 boards with the modifiers kit, iirc.

ah, ok, that makes sense. Thanks!

[MdotMaxson]

I don’t understand why the icon mods have icons and text. Got lazy for the ctrl, alt, win, etc... and didn’t want to make more icons?

Also... why fish? Because Atlantis got eaten by the sea? The sea is more of the destruction of Atlantis, but to add fish seems like it’s missing the point.

[eskimojo]

I don’t understand why the icon mods have icons and text. Got lazy for the ctrl, alt, win, etc... and didn’t want to make more icons?

If this is the first set you've seen with icon mods done this way, I've got news for you buddy

[nguyenhimself]

I don’t understand why the icon mods have icons and text. Got lazy for the ctrl, alt, win, etc... and didn’t want to make more icons?

If this is the first set you've seen with icon mods done this way, I've got news for you buddy

Well it's still kind weird though, considering we already have generally-accepted icons for those modifiers (^, ⌥, and ◊). I guess OP just prefers them that way?

[Rensuya]

I don’t understand why the icon mods have icons and text. Got lazy for the ctrl, alt, win, etc... and didn’t want to make more icons?

If this is the first set you've seen with icon mods done this way, I've got news for you buddy

Well it's still kind weird though, considering we already have generally-accepted icons for those modifiers (^, ⌥, and ◊). I guess OP just prefers them that way?

I'm actually in the process of changing the regular "Modifiers" kit to be full atlantean icons instead of just icon with text bottom row.

[Adelscott]

I'm taking a second look now at the kits. Why do the ISO and French kits have the Enter key in R1-R2 instead of R2-R3?

In the ISO kit, shouldn't the "upper" R1 line of alphas be marked as R2 as well? Also, it should also contain R2 \| keys (for full support of US English over ISO and ANSISO).

Heck, why is the ISO kit called "ISO", anyways? Given the other two are "French" and "North", why not call this one "English" (as it's meant for UK(+US) English)?

Enter keys should indeed be R3 and the row "upper" R1 line is indeed a R2 row I believe he is going to correct that soon.

ISO for me means UK ISO and I believe that's the case for a lot of people. As Jae from Top Clack what ISO is and he will probably not talk about ANSISO

Is ANSISO really used as a layout? I assumed it is less used than pure ISO alone but I might be mistaken.

KAT row labels are bottom-up, not the typical top-down.  Atlantis Text Mod labels are correct.  But still, the ISO kit labels aren't perfect.

Show Image

Show Image

I second that, ISO Enter should be one row up for French and "English", like North.

[harlekein]

Please split 40s/ortho like KAT Milkshake for ortho.

If you must combine kits, combine ergo and ortho and regular and 40s. Combining ortho and 40s really makes little sense when you don't have ridiculous MOQ like GMK.

[dededecline]

Please split 40s/ortho like KAT Milkshake for ortho.

If you must combine kits, combine ergo and ortho and regular and 40s. Combining ortho and 40s really makes little sense when you don't have ridiculous MOQ like GMK.

+1, the only reason to put ortho and 40s together is to appease GMK

[Rensuya]

Please split 40s/ortho like KAT Milkshake for ortho.

If you must combine kits, combine ergo and ortho and regular and 40s. Combining ortho and 40s really makes little sense when you don't have ridiculous MOQ like GMK.

+1, the only reason to put ortho and 40s together is to appease GMK

If more people are interested in them being split then I can do that when I go to make kit changes again.

[msting]

Ergo AND Colevrak!
This goes on the buy list now. 

[Gosling_dkc]

So I'm waaay behind on this... but I literally just found out today that KAT keycaps are pbt... lol.
But now I'm even MORE excited for this set! I love it! Probably my favorite KAT set so far.
All though I've gotta say.. I do like the original design of the angler fish novelty. But I totally understand why it was changed.
I would have thought the Atlantis building or ruins would have been one of the first ones changed. Those do have quite a bit going on. Little harder to tell what they are without a closer look.
But anyway. The set looks really good! I back this fully. Cant wait for an update on a date.

[SlurmsMacKenzie]

This is a great set, is there any possibilty of adding a Text Enter Key for the numpad somewhere (unless I just missed it)? Maybe with the Text mods kit or the Numpad kit?

[Rensuya]

This is a great set, is there any possibilty of adding a Text Enter Key for the numpad somewhere (unless I just missed it)? Maybe with the Text mods kit or the Numpad kit?

That will be added in one of my updates coming up for the set. It was just a key I had left out 

[SlurmsMacKenzie]

This is a great set, is there any possibilty of adding a Text Enter Key for the numpad somewhere (unless I just missed it)? Maybe with the Text mods kit or the Numpad kit?

That will be added in one of my updates coming up for the set. It was just a key I had left out 

Thanks!  Can't wait for the set to come out. I've got my keyboard already, sitting in my closet, haha.

[bcredbottle]

   

Haven't been this excited for an IC in years.  Really hope this goes forward!

   

[Kawamashi]

Really hyped for this set, Rensuya. Can we expect changes in the Ergodox kit according to the related poll ? 

[Rensuya]

Really hyped for this set, Rensuya. Can we expect changes in the Ergodox kit according to the related poll ? 

Yes, along with many other changes I'm working on replacing the blanks with legends for the ergo.

[slxdegrees]

Can't wait for this to hit GB! This is probably my most anticipated KAT profile GB.

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[dmatx1]

Please add text version of numpad Enter, ISO Enter and left 1.25u Shift. These 3 keycaps are missing for a full size text modifier only ISO layout.

[Kawamashi]

Really hyped for this set, Rensuya. Can we expect changes in the Ergodox kit according to the related poll ? 

Yes, along with many other changes I'm working on replacing the blanks with legends for the ergo.

Great news ! Thx for your work !!!

[Rensuya]

Please add text version of numpad Enter, ISO Enter and left 1.25u Shift. These 3 keycaps are missing for a full size text modifier only ISO layout.

No worries! I had those updated already but just have not uploaded them. Planning to just release all updates at once.

[dmatx1]

Please add text version of numpad Enter, ISO Enter and left 1.25u Shift. These 3 keycaps are missing for a full size text modifier only ISO layout.

No worries! I had those updated already but just have not uploaded them. Planning to just release all updates at once.

That's great news! And my wallet disagrees

[Vizir]

Any estimate on when this will go live?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[astronavy]

I like it! Keep us posted please

[Rensuya]

Any estimate on when this will go live?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Most likely in Q2 2020

[Rensuya]

UPDATE #2: Happy Halloween Everyone!

Hey guys! Today I have several changes and additions to the kits based on feedback. I have also added a deskmat, so let me know what you think!

The Changes:
 
-Changed Modifiers kit to Full Atlantean icons
-Changed Ergo kit to full Atlantean icons
-Changed Modifiers on the 40s/Ortho kit to all Atlantean icons
-Added Text backspace to colevrak
-Added Text shift and enter to North kit
-Added Text shift and enter to French kit
-Added Text shift and enter to ISO kit
-Added Text enters and R5 Atlantean icons to Numpad
-Added Mono Korean alphas kit
-Added Deskmat

Lastly, I did not forget about those of you who suggested splitting the 40s/Ortho kit into 2 smaller ones. If you would like to see this happen then here is a poll that will help decide it!

http://www.strawpoll.me/18875647