Author Topic: [IC]Mona | 60%, Bluetooth (Extensible), Arrow-Cluster, "Gummy worm" for $200?  (Read 7855 times)

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Offline liangalv

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 35
Mona

Objective:
Mona originated as a case study on designing a 60% keyboard which exhibited both uncompromising quality and feature set. It seeks to bring hobbyist level features to the masses while maintaining an excellent entry price.

Features:
  • A “gummy-worm” o-ring mount
  • Solder, and Hotswap PCBs
  • Flex Cuts on the PCB
  • Optional Bluetooth module (Module can be added later on)
  • Optional Arrow Cluster (7u)
  • Relief cuts that allow the user to use screw-in stabilizers for both the backspace and spacebar key
  • Precision cut Polyethylene foam for both the mid and bottom layer
  • Black Enamel infill logo
  • Screwless exterior
  • USB-C Daughter board to ‘untether’ the Plate/PCB assembly from the case to facilitate flexibility
  • Easy Plate/PCB removal via the plate with a keycap puller to remove the need for thumb holes at the bottom of case


Specifications:
  • 6063 Anodized/Electrophoresis Aluminium
  • Case weight:~1.1kg
  • 60% Form Factor
  • Typing Angle: 6 Degrees
  • USB Type-C via Daughter board



Layouts:
Universal PCB

  • Tsangan or 7u with arrow cluster
  • Split backspace
  • Stepped Caps lock
  • Split right shift

Hotswap PCB (TBD)
Due to the fixed nature of hotswap pcbs we've decided to determine the final layout via a popular vote on the interest check form. (So please give us some insight thanks!)


What to expect in the base kit:
  • Mona 60% Keyboard
  • Alu, Polycarbonate Half Plate or Brass (Extra for Brass)
  • Solder or Hotswap PCB (Extra for Hotswap)
  • 50 Duro Silicone O-ring
  • USB-C Daughter board
  • Polyethylene foam x2 (plate/pcb and for the bottom of the case)

Optional Add-ons:
  • Brass plate
  • Hotswap Upgrade
  • Bluetooth Module with proprietary battery
Base Kit:Estimated to be around 200 USD


 
Shipping will originate from Canada.
Interest check will be live from 08/25/2021 to 10/08/2021. Please kindly fill out the form if you are interested (or not) as this will heavily influence the options available during the GB (ETA January). Once maximum production capacity is filled, the GB will close and production will follow.


For any private inquiries please feel free to send an email to <support@notcircle.ca>

Please follow our other socials for more frequent updates:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/definitelycircle/
Discord: https://discord.gg/RhxwAVgUBb


Gallery




Status / Timeline
  • (CURRENT) sourcing prototype and verifying BT implementation correctness



Offline liangalv

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 35
reserved

Offline FishyBuisnessmn

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Москва 🇷🇺
  • Inverted space bar gang
Kinda slaps actually, hopefully the black circle on the bottom stays blank, because minimalism :thumb:

Offline Ustinj

  • Posts: 390
Interesting, looking forward to seeing how it's assembled. from what it looks like, the gummy worm only rests on the 4 corners, and the entire PCB is smaller than the plate assembly - seems like a new approach. Some questions out of curiosity:

- If the PCB is smaller  to accommodate for the corner mounting, will the bottom row of switches have all 4 corners sitting flush on the PCB, or will the switches be somewhat 'hanging' off the edge of the PCB? I see a cutout in the case that seems like it's for the PCB to fit deeper into the case, which looks like it's a good bit overlapping the switch cutouts.
- What's the distance distance from the PCB to the case bottom, and case bottom thickness, since ~13mm is insanely low and the last approach to reach <15mm it required a hole in the bottom case. Looks like case depth is only cut out away from the edges (so maybe a benefit of the PCB size..).

Clarification on the build process would be very much appreciated... my curiosity is piqued
« Last Edit: Wed, 25 August 2021, 16:05:30 by Ustinj »

Offline darthcapn

  • Posts: 263
Interesting design. Glwic.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

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Offline pfcmickey

  • Posts: 13
Could you consider split spacebar? Or is it compatible with other pcbs such as the h60 from hiney?

Offline Chippy

  • Posts: 265
  • Location: USA
  • sus chef
that chair render is incredible.
1.2og | Buddy 6xx | Le Fishe V1 Proto | xyz60 Rev2 | Quartermaster | Chimera65 | Satisfaction75 | Realforce 84u | Zenith Z-150 | Realforce 86u | 378
More
This and the swiss cheese keyboard is the next generation of keyboards

Offline niicao

  • Posts: 17
I would appreciate if u could explain better the mounting points for the o-ring on the corners of the case, I don't understand how u will make the o-ring rest on those corners without the pcb cuts

Offline liangalv

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 35
I would appreciate if u could explain better the mounting points for the o-ring on the corners of the case, I don't understand how u will make the o-ring rest on those corners without the pcb cuts

Interesting, looking forward to seeing how it's assembled. from what it looks like, the gummy worm only rests on the 4 corners, and the entire PCB is smaller than the plate assembly - seems like a new approach. Some questions out of curiosity:

- If the PCB is smaller  to accommodate for the corner mounting, will the bottom row of switches have all 4 corners sitting flush on the PCB, or will the switches be somewhat 'hanging' off the edge of the PCB? I see a cutout in the case that seems like it's for the PCB to fit deeper into the case, which looks like it's a good bit overlapping the switch cutouts.
- What's the distance distance from the PCB to the case bottom, and case bottom thickness, since ~13mm is insanely low and the last approach to reach <15mm it required a hole in the bottom case. Looks like case depth is only cut out away from the edges (so maybe a benefit of the PCB size..).

Clarification on the build process would be very much appreciated... my curiosity is piqued

Thank you so much for you questions and insight. For the original implementation of this board (i.e the one shown here) I think this was a fundamental misunderstanding of a gummy worm implementation on my part. I set this board up in this way so that the four corner pieces would act as a lower limit for the pcb to rest on while the rest of the edges of the PCB/Plate assembly friction fit to the case. In theory this should allow for only four hard points on each corner of the case while allowing the alpha cluster to move freely with the relief cuts in PCB. However, this probably isn't optimal for the longevity of the PCB itself and as a result I will be re-engineering the PCB and internal mounting implementation to strictly make contact with the o-ring. I was so excited with implementing the other aspects of the product that I got over zealous and realize now that I made a mistake.

As for the clearance from the bottom of the PCB to the case there is a good 7.6mm of clearance and the median thickness of the case is roughly 6.2mm thick, curious to how problematic these values may be in the final product, a bit more clarification on these values would provide very valuable insight to me. Thanks in advance

Offline _rubik

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1155
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  • Typing on: Brutal60, Lavenders Linears, GMK Jamon
Gummy worm, alu, brass weight, bluetooth 60%.... for 200$? Sounds like a good deal to me
ai03 Meridian ¤ Mech 27 ¤ E8.5 ¤ Brutal60 ¤ SSK White Label ¤ HHKB Pro JP ¤ vAEK68 Alps Blues ¤ RF87u

Offline Ustinj

  • Posts: 390
I would appreciate if u could explain better the mounting points for the o-ring on the corners of the case, I don't understand how u will make the o-ring rest on those corners without the pcb cuts

Interesting, looking forward to seeing how it's assembled. from what it looks like, the gummy worm only rests on the 4 corners, and the entire PCB is smaller than the plate assembly - seems like a new approach. Some questions out of curiosity:

- If the PCB is smaller  to accommodate for the corner mounting, will the bottom row of switches have all 4 corners sitting flush on the PCB, or will the switches be somewhat 'hanging' off the edge of the PCB? I see a cutout in the case that seems like it's for the PCB to fit deeper into the case, which looks like it's a good bit overlapping the switch cutouts.
- What's the distance distance from the PCB to the case bottom, and case bottom thickness, since ~13mm is insanely low and the last approach to reach <15mm it required a hole in the bottom case. Looks like case depth is only cut out away from the edges (so maybe a benefit of the PCB size..).

Clarification on the build process would be very much appreciated... my curiosity is piqued

Thank you so much for you questions and insight. For the original implementation of this board (i.e the one shown here) I think this was a fundamental misunderstanding of a gummy worm implementation on my part. I set this board up in this way so that the four corner pieces would act as a lower limit for the pcb to rest on while the rest of the edges of the PCB/Plate assembly friction fit to the case. In theory this should allow for only four hard points on each corner of the case while allowing the alpha cluster to move freely with the relief cuts in PCB. However, this probably isn't optimal for the longevity of the PCB itself and as a result I will be re-engineering the PCB and internal mounting implementation to strictly make contact with the o-ring. I was so excited with implementing the other aspects of the product that I got over zealous and realize now that I made a mistake.

As for the clearance from the bottom of the PCB to the case there is a good 7.6mm of clearance and the median thickness of the case is roughly 6.2mm thick, curious to how problematic these values may be in the final product, a bit more clarification on these values would provide very valuable insight to me. Thanks in advance

These are some values that would be good to consider:

- A: Distance from top bezel of case to the top of the plate (this is so the case covers your switches and bottom of keycaps). To cover most caps safely, I'd aim for at minimum 7.5mm for this, but you can pass with 7mm if you don't mind a shallower look
- B: Distance from the top of the plate to the top of the PCB is 5mm. This value is fixed because of MX switch spec
- C: Standard thickness of PCB is usually 1.6mm. Can be thinner but standard PCBs are 1.6mm.
- D: Distance from the bottom of the PCB to the internal bottom of the case. You want a minimum distance to prevent switch pins from touching the bottom of the case and shorting... I think 2.4mm should be the absolute bare minimum if there's zero flex at all, 3mm+ is a good amount to aim for.
- E: Thickness of the bottom of the case at its thinnest point. Just worth noting since usually the front of the board, where the spacebar is, is where the thinnest part of the case is.

Totaling these values, ~7+ mm (bezel to plate top) + 5mm (plate top to pcb top) + 1.6mm (pcb top to pcb bottom) + 2.4mm (minimum pcb to case bottom) + ~.5mm+ (thinnest part of case) usually totals up to around at least 16.5mm - that is why most boards have a front height that is around 17+. Sorry, this is not to nitpick or backseat game as I am genuinely curious - but I can see how a 13.6mm front height is possible if you are making a semi-low profile case.

Offline Friendship

  • Posts: 212
I would appreciate if u could explain better the mounting points for the o-ring on the corners of the case, I don't understand how u will make the o-ring rest on those corners without the pcb cuts

Interesting, looking forward to seeing how it's assembled. from what it looks like, the gummy worm only rests on the 4 corners, and the entire PCB is smaller than the plate assembly - seems like a new approach. Some questions out of curiosity:

- If the PCB is smaller  to accommodate for the corner mounting, will the bottom row of switches have all 4 corners sitting flush on the PCB, or will the switches be somewhat 'hanging' off the edge of the PCB? I see a cutout in the case that seems like it's for the PCB to fit deeper into the case, which looks like it's a good bit overlapping the switch cutouts.
- What's the distance distance from the PCB to the case bottom, and case bottom thickness, since ~13mm is insanely low and the last approach to reach <15mm it required a hole in the bottom case. Looks like case depth is only cut out away from the edges (so maybe a benefit of the PCB size..).

Clarification on the build process would be very much appreciated... my curiosity is piqued

Thank you so much for you questions and insight. For the original implementation of this board (i.e the one shown here) I think this was a fundamental misunderstanding of a gummy worm implementation on my part. I set this board up in this way so that the four corner pieces would act as a lower limit for the pcb to rest on while the rest of the edges of the PCB/Plate assembly friction fit to the case. In theory this should allow for only four hard points on each corner of the case while allowing the alpha cluster to move freely with the relief cuts in PCB. However, this probably isn't optimal for the longevity of the PCB itself and as a result I will be re-engineering the PCB and internal mounting implementation to strictly make contact with the o-ring. I was so excited with implementing the other aspects of the product that I got over zealous and realize now that I made a mistake.

As for the clearance from the bottom of the PCB to the case there is a good 7.6mm of clearance and the median thickness of the case is roughly 6.2mm thick, curious to how problematic these values may be in the final product, a bit more clarification on these values would provide very valuable insight to me. Thanks in advance

These are some values that would be good to consider:

- A: Distance from top bezel of case to the top of the plate (this is so the case covers your switches and bottom of keycaps). To cover most caps safely, I'd aim for at minimum 7.5mm for this, but you can pass with 7mm if you don't mind a shallower look
- B: Distance from the top of the plate to the top of the PCB is 5mm. This value is fixed because of MX switch spec
- C: Standard thickness of PCB is usually 1.6mm. Can be thinner but standard PCBs are 1.6mm.
- D: Distance from the bottom of the PCB to the internal bottom of the case. You want a minimum distance to prevent switch pins from touching the bottom of the case and shorting... I think 2.4mm should be the absolute bare minimum if there's zero flex at all, 3mm+ is a good amount to aim for.
- E: Thickness of the bottom of the case at its thinnest point. Just worth noting since usually the front of the board, where the spacebar is, is where the thinnest part of the case is.

Totaling these values, ~7+ mm (bezel to plate top) + 5mm (plate top to pcb top) + 1.6mm (pcb top to pcb bottom) + 2.4mm (minimum pcb to case bottom) + ~.5mm+ (thinnest part of case) usually totals up to around at least 16.5mm - that is why most boards have a front height that is around 17+. Sorry, this is not to nitpick or backseat game as I am genuinely curious - but I can see how a 13.6mm front height is possible if you are making a semi-low profile case.

the 13.6 "front height" measurement also appears to be from the upper end point of the fillet/chamfer (i cant see that well) on the bottom to the lower end point of the fillet/chamfer on the top. It doesn't appear to show the height of the entire case at the front and also that its not measured 90 degrees from the floor makes this measurement a bit misguided in its intent anyway. at least that's how I interpret this. I will say, even if those are 1mm fillets, a 15.6mm case height is still below your minimum space calculation, so something seems off!
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Offline yanwrld

  • Posts: 16
I would appreciate if u could explain better the mounting points for the o-ring on the corners of the case, I don't understand how u will make the o-ring rest on those corners without the pcb cuts

Interesting, looking forward to seeing how it's assembled. from what it looks like, the gummy worm only rests on the 4 corners, and the entire PCB is smaller than the plate assembly - seems like a new approach. Some questions out of curiosity:

- If the PCB is smaller  to accommodate for the corner mounting, will the bottom row of switches have all 4 corners sitting flush on the PCB, or will the switches be somewhat 'hanging' off the edge of the PCB? I see a cutout in the case that seems like it's for the PCB to fit deeper into the case, which looks like it's a good bit overlapping the switch cutouts.
- What's the distance distance from the PCB to the case bottom, and case bottom thickness, since ~13mm is insanely low and the last approach to reach <15mm it required a hole in the bottom case. Looks like case depth is only cut out away from the edges (so maybe a benefit of the PCB size..).

Clarification on the build process would be very much appreciated... my curiosity is piqued

Thank you so much for you questions and insight. For the original implementation of this board (i.e the one shown here) I think this was a fundamental misunderstanding of a gummy worm implementation on my part. I set this board up in this way so that the four corner pieces would act as a lower limit for the pcb to rest on while the rest of the edges of the PCB/Plate assembly friction fit to the case. In theory this should allow for only four hard points on each corner of the case while allowing the alpha cluster to move freely with the relief cuts in PCB. However, this probably isn't optimal for the longevity of the PCB itself and as a result I will be re-engineering the PCB and internal mounting implementation to strictly make contact with the o-ring. I was so excited with implementing the other aspects of the product that I got over zealous and realize now that I made a mistake.

As for the clearance from the bottom of the PCB to the case there is a good 7.6mm of clearance and the median thickness of the case is roughly 6.2mm thick, curious to how problematic these values may be in the final product, a bit more clarification on these values would provide very valuable insight to me. Thanks in advance

These are some values that would be good to consider:

- A: Distance from top bezel of case to the top of the plate (this is so the case covers your switches and bottom of keycaps). To cover most caps safely, I'd aim for at minimum 7.5mm for this, but you can pass with 7mm if you don't mind a shallower look
- B: Distance from the top of the plate to the top of the PCB is 5mm. This value is fixed because of MX switch spec
- C: Standard thickness of PCB is usually 1.6mm. Can be thinner but standard PCBs are 1.6mm.
- D: Distance from the bottom of the PCB to the internal bottom of the case. You want a minimum distance to prevent switch pins from touching the bottom of the case and shorting... I think 2.4mm should be the absolute bare minimum if there's zero flex at all, 3mm+ is a good amount to aim for.
- E: Thickness of the bottom of the case at its thinnest point. Just worth noting since usually the front of the board, where the spacebar is, is where the thinnest part of the case is.

Totaling these values, ~7+ mm (bezel to plate top) + 5mm (plate top to pcb top) + 1.6mm (pcb top to pcb bottom) + 2.4mm (minimum pcb to case bottom) + ~.5mm+ (thinnest part of case) usually totals up to around at least 16.5mm - that is why most boards have a front height that is around 17+. Sorry, this is not to nitpick or backseat game as I am genuinely curious - but I can see how a 13.6mm front height is possible if you are making a semi-low profile case.

the 13.6 "front height" measurement also appears to be from the upper end point of the fillet/chamfer (i cant see that well) on the bottom to the lower end point of the fillet/chamfer on the top. It doesn't appear to show the height of the entire case at the front and also that its not measured 90 degrees from the floor makes this measurement a bit misguided in its intent anyway. at least that's how I interpret this. I will say, even if those are 1mm fillets, a 15.6mm case height is still below your minimum space calculation, so something seems off!

You are most definitely correct about the 15.6 front height. I calibrated the drawing in the IC as a canvas in fusion using the long side, and it comes out to 15.602, within the margin of error from the resolution of the image. With basic trig calculations, it's 13.53mm if you take the number given (without fillets) 90 degrees from the floor. Taking into account the fillets, it's 15.515mm 90 degrees from the ground using the 15.6mm figure. I can't wrap my head around how it's possible with 6 degrees, but if they are making it work, that is a pretty incredible feat. Perhaps the keycaps are sunk in a bit more in renders than how they would appear irl? From what I can see that is probably the case here. If you take into account the 16.5 minimum, top case to top plate should be just a bit less than (or the same as!) bottom plate to bottom case. My guess is that the top plate to top case height is just too shallow, but okay without switches. Op, try to import a switch model in CAD and add a keycap on top. Better to test in 3d now than find out the hard way with prototypes.
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 August 2021, 15:20:43 by yanwrld »

Offline stewfayew

  • Posts: 87
  • Location: US
Re: [IC]Mona | 60%, Bluetooth (Extensible), Arrow-Cluster, "Gummy worm" for $200?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 01 September 2021, 16:26:03 »
That was a very nice IC form-filling experience  :)

I love o-ring mount and I love 60%. Very interested to see how it feels to type on...

Offline conternecticus

  • Posts: 145
  • Location: somewhere with crazy shipping fees
  • (¬‿¬ )
Re: [IC]Mona | 60%, Bluetooth (Extensible), Arrow-Cluster, "Gummy worm" for $200?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 02 September 2021, 23:32:07 »
Where will Mona be shipped from? Edit: It's Canada sorry I missed it in the main post.
The IC didn't have the Purple case color option so I'll say it here: Please consider dark purple or purple color for the case. GLWIC!
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 September 2021, 00:12:58 by conternecticus »