GMK white/dark grey US/GB full set + 'Gamer' add-on {Closed}

[pix3l_fodder]

double post

[osxoep]

The other layout with numbers and no shifted legends seems like a good compromise if things start to struggle.

It's just too bad that they don't do small MOQ or price breaks.

[kaiserreich]

All the various other languages besides US make up a lot more than some of you think, something like 40%. Taking them out will not help us reach MOQ. It doesn't matter if the set is XX% cheaper if there are not enough buyers.

Ivan how about you post here the final results of the IC.

post all the languages with the head counts on them and don't forget the ANSI, people want to see the ANSI count, I'm sure there are quite the numbers on UK and DE but how many are for the rest, we want to know if a language pack  added is  justifiable. Are you accepting language pack with 2-3 votes on it?

EDIT: I'm sorry who Am'I kidding, I probably wont even go for this GB since I have my Dolch coming in, but numbers are numbers and this is what they show:

- Pleasing the 10% minority language pack people = cost of set with shipping $200-250
- Pleasing 90% of people and partially pleasing 10% = cost of set with shipping $130-150

If this are not the % numbers then what are they? post the head count language packs from the IC form you had.

If you don't like how the GB is run, you don't join.
This is why I am not ordering any of these.

[digi]

If you don't like how the GB is run, you don't join.
This is why I am not ordering any of these.

The IC thread shows a lot of people are interested in this GB. People are just trying to help make it a successful GB, that's all.

[CeeSA]

For one TKL you have to order 4 packs. This can't be the goal.

[stoic-lemon]

Quality of GMK is second to none, so I'll submit an order this week and keep my fingers crossed.

[pasph]

If you don't like how the GB is run, you don't join.
This is why I am not ordering any of these.

The IC thread shows a lot of people are interested in this GB. People are just trying to help make it a successful GB, that's all.

No, those people want just a standard ansi set through SP with cherry fonts

[calavera]

So a full ANSI set will cost $168+ shipping???

[jonathanyu]

So a full ANSI set will cost $168+ shipping???

that's right, but if you don't want any blank key in the set, it will be $217+shipping

[nubbinator]

So a full ANSI set will cost $168+ shipping???

that's right, but if you don't want any blank key in the set, it will be $217+shipping

Higher because of Paypal fees and the $3 GB fee.  When I calculated it, it was $176.42 and $226.88 plus shipping.

[digi]

No, those people want just a standard ansi set through SP with cherry fonts

"Those people" will make MOQ 400.

[bazemk1979]

Yeah I'm thinking the same way, it'd be nice to help out as many other regions as possible but you don't want to alienate the ANSI buyers as they're the bulk of the orders.

**** men 80% are ANSI users..... 15% the popular European ones and the other 5% well don't even know them. Imagine now I go in and start requiring language pack for my personal language MACEDONIAN that uses  weird acupunctures signs in order to melt my languages with the QWERTY..... Yea I should start raising hell why I don't have my language in this GB....

When you run your own group buy, you do that...  I'm happy with what Ivan is offering, even at the current price.

1 person happy does not = what the rest will do!!! what tree you've been sitting for the past 10 years?

[pasph]

No, those people want just a standard ansi set through SP with cherry fonts

"Those people" will make MOQ 400.

So why don't you run an ansi only GB?

[pasph]

Yeah I'm thinking the same way, it'd be nice to help out as many other regions as possible but you don't want to alienate the ANSI buyers as they're the bulk of the orders.

**** men 80% are ANSI users..... 15% the popular European ones and the other 5% well don't even know them. Imagine now I go in and start requiring language pack for my personal language MACEDONIAN that uses  weird acupunctures signs in order to melt my languages with the QWERTY..... Yea I should start raising hell why I don't have my language in this GB....

When you run your own group buy, you do that...  I'm happy with what Ivan is offering, even at the current price.

1 person happy does not = what the rest will do!!! what tree you've been sitting for the past 10 years?

Why all this anger?

[digi]

So why don't you run an ansi only GB?

Why don't you run an Italian ISO only GB?

[bazemk1979]

nobody is angry with nobody, but lets say im wrong, let the GB runs as was from the get go, 5 different set, GL hitting 400 MOQ for every each set.... I can see Ivan needs better plan or the whole GB will be flushed down the drain.

[pasph]

So why don't you run an ansi only GB?

Why don't you run an Italian ISO only GB?

In all this years this is the first multilingual GB, you feel you're missing something?
I've bought many ansi sets here and never rant about that.
You have all you can want and now show this rage?
Really i can't understand you, sorry.

[bazemk1979]

you guys are funny,  you all realize that MOQ is 400 right? LOOL  Its not about whats fair, nothing ever is fair..... What really matters is reaching the 400 MOQ by breaking few hearts here and there, or make every body happy $250 per set and see if you can get 400 orders at that price range.

[digi]

In all this years this is the first multilingual GB, you feel you're missing something?
I've bought many ansi sets here and never rant about that.
You have all you can want and now show this rage?
Really i can't understand you, sorry.

How many GMK base/mod sets have there been?

[bahamot]

you guys are funny,  you all realize that MOQ is 400 right? LOOL  Its not about whats fair, nothing ever is fair..... What really matters is reaching the 400 MOQ by breaking few hearts here and there, or make every body happy $250 per set and see if you can get 400 orders at that price range.

+1.

The vortex much "hated" PBT DS keycaps should have been a good example.
So many haters around here but sold out (205 in just 2-3 days!!)

[rowdy]

you guys are funny,  you all realize that MOQ is 400 right? LOOL  Its not about whats fair, nothing ever is fair..... What really matters is reaching the 400 MOQ by breaking few hearts here and there, or make every body happy $250 per set and see if you can get 400 orders at that price range.

+1.

The vortex much "hated" PBT DS keycaps should have been a good example.
So many haters around here but sold out (205 in just 2-3 days!!)

Opposite end of the price spectrum.

[nubbinator]

you guys are funny,  you all realize that MOQ is 400 right? LOOL  Its not about whats fair, nothing ever is fair..... What really matters is reaching the 400 MOQ by breaking few hearts here and there, or make every body happy $250 per set and see if you can get 400 orders at that price range.

+1.

The vortex much "hated" PBT DS keycaps should have been a good example.
So many haters around here but sold out (205 in just 2-3 days!!)

They sold well because: A. They were double shot PBT, something that is virtually non-existent, B. a surprising number of people didn't mind the legends or actually liked them, and C. they were dirt cheap at $40 shipped.  As such, more people were willing to try them out and see if they liked them since the cost of entry was so low for an uncommon good.  At close to $250 for a complete set once you factor in shipping, this set is being tossed into the luxury realm, an area where you're generally lucky to hit 50 orders.  Keep in mind that at these prices, you could buy two full GMK made sets from Sherry at Originative.  As much as I like the colors of the Alphas, I'd rather buy a complete usable set from Originative than just a total set of Alphas, of which I won't use 1/3 of the caps, for the same price.

And while it might be nice to have some cap options for those with special layouts, you really can't expect people to want to subsidize it for a small minority who often have a hard time hitting MOQs of 50 in a GB when it drives the price of a set price to well over $200. 

[digi]

They sold well because: A. They were double shot PBT, something that is virtually non-existent, B. a surprising number of people didn't mind the legends or actually liked them, and C. they were dirt cheap at $40 shipped.  As such, more people were willing to try them out and see if they liked them since the cost of entry was so low for an uncommon good.  At close to $250 for a complete set once you factor in shipping, this set is being tossed into the luxury realm, an area where you're generally lucky to hit 50 orders.  Keep in mind that at these prices, you could buy two full GMK made sets from Sherry at Originative.  As much as I like the colors of the Alphas, I'd rather buy a complete usable set from Originative than just a total set of Alphas, of which I won't use 1/3 of the caps, for the same price.

And while it might be nice to have some cap options for those with special layouts, you really can't expect people to want to subsidize it for a small minority who often have a hard time hitting MOQs of 50 in a GB when it drives the price of a set price to well over $200. 

well said

[demik]

So a full ANSI set will cost $168+ shipping???

where are the people that were ****ting on sherry again? that claimed GBs were going to be faster and cheaper?

oh that's right. nowhere, because they are idiots.

also, as much as it sucks, ISO/language sets have always been a problem since very few people buy them. and as stated already, it's not fair for people to pay for keycaps they arent going to use just because 10 people want them.

[bazemk1979]

So a full ANSI set will cost $168+ shipping???

where are the people that were ****ting on sherry again? that claimed GBs were going to be faster and cheaper?

oh that's right. nowhere, because they are idiots.

also, as much as it sucks, ISO/language sets have always been a problem since very few people buy them. and as stated already, it's not fair for people to pay for keycaps they arent going to use just because 10 people want them.

that's why I went with Sherry's Dolch, and I'm already lined up for the Handerbeit.

[Elrick]

that's why I went with Sherry's Dolch, and I'm already lined up for the Handerbeit.

Same here, but Sherryton has been running Dolch for a while now.  Not complaining or casting any negative comment's here but I am now happy that he sorted out the Spacebars from GMK and we'll soon have our key-sets shipped.

[pasph]

also, as much as it sucks, ISO/language sets have always been a problem since very few people buy them. and as stated already, it's not fair for people to pay for keycaps they arent going to use just because 10 people want them.

So putting 4 caps in a separate Group (the famous iso set) "have always been a problem"?
Really until now you have your house full of those useless iso sets?
How much money you have paid to please that 10 people until now?
And...surprise! I have bought 2 gmk sets from Originative.
Can someone tell me what until now you have missed, what terrible injustice you have had to suffer from that 10 people to justify this hate?

[demik]

also, as much as it sucks, ISO/language sets have always been a problem since very few people buy them. and as stated already, it's not fair for people to pay for keycaps they arent going to use just because 10 people want them.

So putting 4 caps in a separate Group (the famous iso set) "have always been a problem"?
Really until now you have your house full of those useless iso sets?
How much money you have paid to please that 10 people until now?
And...surprise! I have bought 2 gmk sets from Originative.
Can someone tell me what until now you have missed, what terrible injustice you have had to suffer from that 10 people to justify this hate?

calm your tits guy.

it's been a problem for the ISO users because it's hard for them to meet the MOQ, I never said it was a problem for the GB organizer to add them.

[bueller]

Dial it back a bit guys, there is no reason for people to be sniping at each other over this.

[pix3l_fodder]

Personally think Ivan got it right the first time around. Without cutting people out, you can't seperate it much more. Sad thing is, the ANSI users have spoken and they aren't in the mood for community spirit.

It's Ivans choice at the end of the day.

[Elrick]

Without cutting people out, you can't seperate it much more. Sad thing is, the ANSI users have spoken and they aren't in the mood for community spirit.

It's Ivans choice at the end of the day.

Maybe Ivan needs to heavily promote this Group Buy on "Deskthority" because there are a lot more European (ISO) based users on there, than here on Geekhack (US-ANSI based).

[Forever]

The price is some sort of hum, impressive...
really expensive. but i'll take it.

[baldgye]

If there is a lite version I would probably invest, I'm just sad that after the huge IC thread that we got a dull looking set... Was hoping for something to get excited about...

[gojira54]

As long as these keys are in whatever version is offered I'm in

[Elrick]

Was hoping for something to get excited about...

It's exciting BECAUSE it can join up with any coloured Modifiers that you have.  I think this colour coupled with the previous Purple wonders would look superb.

Never think that boring colours are dreadful, ONLY myopic morons wanting BRIGHTLY coloured keys need look elsewhere.  This colour is for men, not for babies looking to be entertained above their heads.

[gojira54]

Yes I agree the proposed colourway will go really well with the last run purple mods...

[IvanIvanovich]

How many times have proper languages other than US been offered before? Like 2 not counting my dual language US/RU type stuffs? ISO is not a language, but a physical layout specification. The usual bull**** of offering some 4 blank keys to adapt US into an ISO arrangement has never really been useful to most 'ISO' users because US is not the layout they want or use. I don't wonder why there is few buyer for that US ISO adapter as it is ****. Of course, it seems like some of you xenophobic ****tards get angry when even suggest offering anything but US ANSI. I don't understand you people. I mean fine I get you don't want to pay some extra amount to help everyone get their MOQs but seriously...

[BimboBB]

1. paying $200 for single clickclack key = legit! 

2. paying $200 for a brandnew full set of  200+ keys of Cherry doubleshots = way too overpriced und useless!

3. )

[GeorgeK]

^True

I'd call these classy not boring.  Admittedly I'd have no use for most of the extra keycaps but I don't mind paying a few extra $ to help out others (provided that, as someone has previously said, it's a more 'mainstream' layout / language (French, German etc) and not some upside down Albanian super umlaut or something...)

[bueller]

Of course, it seems like some of you xenophobic ****tards get angry when even suggest offering anything but US ANSI. I don't understand you people. I mean fine I get you don't want to pay some extra amount to help everyone get their MOQs but seriously...

I can understand you frustration but when you start firing up like this you're not helping anyone.

I have no problem paying a little bit more than usual if it means supporting a couple of extra languages but the line has to be drawn somewhere. This set is going to cost more than double what a normal set would, I think if you can cull the non-essential mods (ie just cover Full-size, Tsangan and ISO) + any other fat and and get the price down to around $150-$160 you'll hear a lot less complaints. I think we're just spread too thinly, we either need to tackle unusual layouts (terminal boards, noopoo's etc) OR foreign languages. Trying to do everything at once is just forcing the price up too much for the average buyer and we'll never get the balance right to keep everyone happy.

[IvanIvanovich]

Right, there is not much inclusion of 'minority' layouts. Of those that are included, it is not a lot of keys we are talking about that are unique to that layout only.
Britain: 3 keys
Japanese: 8 keys
Danish/Norwegian/Swedish/Finnish: 9 keys
Italian: 7 keys
Portuguese: 7 keys for Brazil + 5 for traditional
For what I doubt many people will argue are not major languages
German: 7 keys
Spanish: 8 keys traditional + 4 keys for South America variant
If any are shared with another language I didn't count it as unique to that layout. So in some cases if you remove an entire language support, you may only be removing 1-8 keys so you can see how it's not really that helpful right? Yes I am aware that all together all of these different languages make the key total go up. So lets say theoretically, if we removed some languages and we loose 100 buyers and can't reach MOQ or we have to pay $20 extra, which scenario is better?

Asides from the swapped control/caps lock thing, there is nothing unusual in the MOD pack at all. Hell, I even removed the 1x mods this time. There is no weird things in there like 2x shifts or 1.5 backspace. Perhaps the extra cursor set and P1-5 keys can go from the NAV kit as those are really the only weird things in there.

[bueller]

Maybe we could do half the languages this time and then whichever languages get missed they get done in the next GB? I count 266 keys for a complete set, if we can get it down to around 200 keys then hopefully that will impact the price enough to get more people on board. I count about 25 we can lose from the mods + nav without affecting people too adversely, that means another 40 need to go out of the 135 language variant keys.

EDIT: I REALLY suck at math, there are actually over 300 keys in this set.

[bueller]

if we removed some languages and we loose 100 buyers and can't reach MOQ or we have to pay $20 extra, which scenario is better?

I'll find a way to be in no matter what the price, I love GMK. My biggest worry is that we never meet MOQ regardless because the price is too rich for most.

[gojira54]

^Yep this is true - was close last time...

[bueller]

Excuse the multiple posts but I'm thinking out loud. Doing some basic calculations it seems that GMK work off around 75-80 cents per double-shot key (with legends) for alphas.  Maths below.

Language pack 1
$49 / 62 keys = .79 cents per key

Language pack 2
$55 / 73 keys = .75 cents per key

We know a 110 key set (like Sherry sells) can be had for around about $100 and that covers most common layouts. So at around $100 already gone, if we wanted to keep the cost to around $160USD we would be able to offer about an additional 75 language specific layout keys if my maths aren't too far off. Someone might want to double check. The advantage of doing it this way is ANSI users get their 110 key set and don't feel disadvantaged AND we manage to support however many languages those 75 keys cover.

[baldgye]

Was hoping for something to get excited about...

It's exciting BECAUSE it can join up with any coloured Modifiers that you have.  I think this colour coupled with the previous Purple wonders would look superb.

Never think that boring colours are dreadful, ONLY myopic morons wanting BRIGHTLY coloured keys need look elsewhere.  This colour is for men, not for babies looking to be entertained above their heads.

Just seems like a waste of an opportunity IMO if you want dark cherry caps there are plenty to pick from if your willing to work for it. The language options are nice and I'm happy about that.

Though I didn't suggest the need it want for brightly coloured keys...

[bueller]

Was hoping for something to get excited about...

It's exciting BECAUSE it can join up with any coloured Modifiers that you have.  I think this colour coupled with the previous Purple wonders would look superb.

Never think that boring colours are dreadful, ONLY myopic morons wanting BRIGHTLY coloured keys need look elsewhere.  This colour is for men, not for babies looking to be entertained above their heads.

Just seems like a waste of an opportunity IMO if you want dark cherry caps there are plenty to pick from if your willing to work for it. The language options are nice and I'm happy about that.

Though I didn't suggest the need it want for brightly coloured keys...

Honestly I think the only way we'll ever hit MOQ on more adventurous colors is to keep the price low and sell small packs rather than full sets. Purple mods and CMYK were a good example, the low price meant a lot more people were willing to jump on board and quite a few bought multiples.

EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.

[baldgye]

Was hoping for something to get excited about...

It's exciting BECAUSE it can join up with any coloured Modifiers that you have.  I think this colour coupled with the previous Purple wonders would look superb.

Never think that boring colours are dreadful, ONLY myopic morons wanting BRIGHTLY coloured keys need look elsewhere.  This colour is for men, not for babies looking to be entertained above their heads.

Just seems like a waste of an opportunity IMO if you want dark cherry caps there are plenty to pick from if your willing to work for it. The language options are nice and I'm happy about that.

Though I didn't suggest the need it want for brightly coloured keys...

Honestly I think the only way we'll ever hit MOQ on more adventurous colors is to keep the price low and sell small packs rather than full sets. Purple mods and CMYK were a good example, the low price meant a lot more people were willing to jump on board and quite a few bought multiples.

Yeah it was a cool set and I'm really happy with it. I was hoping it would lead to some cool and neat unique sets... but people seem to be blinkered into thinking they need only black/grey/white etc sets that you can get elsewhere...

To me building a full set of working coherent colours on a board you like using is part of the enjoyment I get from his hobby. It took me the best part of six months looking for a full set of cherry beige ISO keycaps (spending within a budget) and it was great fun. I'd love the GMK sets to be little parts that could be put with other sets or together. I followed the IC thread quite closely and it seemed everyone (or the majority) wanted full sets of Dolch or similar style sets etc.


But I respect Ivan for all the work he has done, I don't envy his task at all and if there is a lite version as he suggested I'll try and invest if I can, but atm it's a bit out of my price range.

[Acanthophis]

EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.

I also have an idea: If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ISO get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.
See what I did there?
Or rather, see what you did there?


This ANSI/ISO bullshiit has to stop. Those are just physical layouts, not language layouts...

[bueller]

EDIT: I've had another idea. If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ANSI get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.

I also have an idea: If this all goes pear shaped and we can't hit MOQ, why not just do normal sets and then allocate a certain number of dollars per set for blanks in each row to cover other layouts? Those who just want ISO get it and then you've got a pool of blanks to hand out to those with different layouts to fill. Probably crazy but it's an idea all the same.
See what I did there?
Or rather, see what you did there?


This ANSI/ISO bullshiit has to stop. Those are just physical layouts, not language layouts...

That was a poor choice of words, no need to jump down my throat. I don't see you coming up with any plans to get this GB to fruition.